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View Full Version : Seagull Harrier3D .46 Conversion


Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 03:31 PM
I am converting the Harrier 3D .46 for a review article. I figured why not have you guys follow along with me. It will help me keep my thoughts in order as well (now THAT is a tough job! :) )

Wingspan: 48.4 inches
Wing Area: 751sq in
Weight: 5.5-6.6 lbs
Length: 57 inches
Recommended Motor: .46 to .52 cu. in
Electric: E-flite Power 60 Brushless

Requires:
Radio: 4-8 channel
Servos: 5 servos
Servo extensions: 4- 12"

I am going to be using the E-flite Power 60 bl motor (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLM4060A)from Horizonhobby, a CastleCreations Pheonix 80 esc (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=CSEPHX80), 5v UBEC (http://koolflightsystems.com/ultimatebec.htm), 6- FMA DS300BB digital servos (http://www.fmadirect.com/products.htm?cat=46&nid=12) and the FMA Skyvolt BalancePRO 6S 3200mah (http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm?item=2033&section=38)

Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 03:35 PM
The quality of the kit is great. All glue joints are well secured and not a lot of area that could be left out to get it any lighter. The Harrier has plug in wings that makes for easy transportation. Dual wing tubes are utlized and two wing bolts per side (one in the front and one in the back) hold the wings to the fuse. The kit contains a low parts count which makes assembly (we cant call this building can we?) quick and painless.

Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 03:41 PM
The control surfaces utilize CA hinges and the slots are already precut. I T-pin the center of the hinge to keep one side of the hinge from slipping in too far. Slide each control surface on and wick some thin CA on each side of the hinge.

The tail slot is cut away to fit the elevator. I have had many ARF's that required me to either shave the slot or shim the elevator to get it level with the wings. This did not require any such effort and aligned perfectly. I fit the elevator in the slot and marked where I needed to remove the covering. I use a soldering iron to cut the covering to ensure I don't cut through the balsa. Some 30 minute epoxy and the Elevator is slide into place and excess cleaned up with rubbing alcohol.

The Rudder is attached next using three CA hinges and the same method as the Ailerons and elevator.

Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 03:59 PM
On to the gear:
The landing gear is swept back aluminum. It is a two peice setup and the blind nuts are pre-installed in the fuse. I used a soldering iron to melt away the covering over the holes and attached them using the supplied bolts.

The wheelpants are fiberglass and they require that you drill a hole for the axle. The wheelpants are sandwiched between the landing gear and a nut and the wheel is held center between two wheel collars.

The tailwheel supplied is good quality and mounts to the fuse using two wood screws. A steering wire extends to the rudder and is held on using a plastic retainer that bolts through the rudder.

I love the first time they stand on their own :) There is clearance for a 17" prop, but it would be cutting it close.

Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 04:13 PM
My favorite part...mounting the motor!

The Power 60 has 3.5mm bullet connectors preinstalled and includes the mating plug for the ESC. I normally hardwire my motor connectors, but since they were already installed on the motor, I went ahead and soldered them on the ESC. The UBEC is soldered directly onto the battery wires.

I have seen many ways of mounting motors and used most of them. From PVC mounts to hardwood dowels. After using the Aluminum motor mount however, it is my primary choice. Cliff @ www.atlantahobby.com carries these mounts. They come in a wide variety of plates for different type motors as well as a very wide assortment of pole extensions. From 1" to 12" to fit any spacing requirement. I had to extend the motor by 1.5" to get the prop adapter to clear the cowl. I used 1" poles and 1/4" spacers and the front and backplate made up the other 1/4" for proper clearance.

The mount is bolted to the firewall using three 4-40 (3/4") bolts and blind nuts. Simply line up the mount and mark the holes. Then drill through and apply the blind nuts from inside. Voila!

tahustvedt
01-12-2006, 05:07 PM
Does it use two elevator-servos? What's the sixth servo for?

I've always liked the look of these planes. I'll be following this thread. :)

Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 05:41 PM
Does it use two elevator-servos? What's the sixth servo for?

I've always liked the look of these planes. I'll be following this thread. :)
It does use dual Elevator servos. Good call on the sixth servo, as it was a typo on my part (now corrected).

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________
The FMA DS300BB servos were just a hair larger than the pre-cut openings of the servo bays. I had to shave two sides about 1mm to allow them to drop in. I simply ran my exacto knife along the edge to make clean work of the opening.

The linkage was very easy to setup after centering the servo's A clevis on one end and a 90 degree bend with retainer at the other.

As mentioned above, the Harrier uses dual elevator servo's. I had thought about combining the two elevators with some thick elevator wire and only using one servo. There is plenty of room for an elevator joining wire, but the trouble was not worth it. I think this would be a good use of a bellcrank though. It would require some engineering, but could easily be implemented.

Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 08:38 PM
The Juice to power the 60 BL is a 6S 3200 mah Skyvolt/Balancepro pack from FMA. Being a long term TP user, I dont know what has taken me so long to branch out.
This setup can be charged at 3C. That is 9 amps and a 90% charge can be had at around 20 minutes and complete charged in around 26 minutes. It is this fast charging that has drawn me to this setup. No more waiting an hour for my packs to charge just to fly again.

I am also using a DPM Opto Discharge Protection Module and External Speaker/LED system.

The DPM protects the pack from discharging to low as it monitors each individual cell in the pack continously. If one cell drops below the recommended safety limit, the DPM tells the speed controller to pulse the motor before cutting off. This gives you warning to land.

The External Speaker/LED gives an audible and visual respresentation of the packs condition. I am not sure if I wil be able to hear this in the air, but only time will tell.

Since the DPM monitors the battery voltage and controls the cut-off, you must reprogram your ESC cut-off so that it does not interfer. In the case of the Phoenix 80, I simply set it below 3 volts per cell. Using the Castle Link software, I set it to 15 volts (6S= 2.5v per cell)



-Mike

Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 09:00 PM
The 6S 3200 mah SV pack was a perfect match for this airframe. Plenty of room to get it in and out.

My staple for a battery tray is 1/8" balsa laminated with 1/64" ply. It is lightweight and has held up to 10S packs.

But first, I estimated where the battery was going to sit and it appears that the top of former F3 has got to go (highlighted in Blue)

The tray is then fabricated and using some Basswood stock to create a couple of rails, the tray is epoxied in.

termite
01-12-2006, 11:29 PM
Mike,
Just set up this kit for a friend with a Mega 22/30/3 on 6S using a MEC SuperBox.
Need to fine tune the gearing a little (amp draw is a few to high)
Had it up last weekend and she flies like a dream.

I'll post the finale set up when we get it dialed in.

Randy

Rugar
01-12-2006, 11:51 PM
*****Subscribed*****
:D

Mike Parsons
01-12-2006, 11:59 PM
Mike,
Just set up this kit for a friend with a Mega 22/30/3 on 6S using a MEC SuperBox.
Need to fine tune the gearing a little (amp draw is a few to high)
Had it up last weekend and she flies like a dream.

I'll post the finale set up when we get it dialed in.

Randy
Randy,
I had a Mega 22/30/2 geared 4.6:1 on a 5S (originally 16 2600 NIMH) in a Funtana and then a UCD and it was awesome performance. Mega Motors are extremely versatile. As a matter of fact it was Chuck that set me up with it after I saw his conversion of his Funtana 40.

Please do update with the final setup!

-Mike

termite
01-13-2006, 04:19 AM
Will post results ASAP ;)

That Funtana Video is still on my site. Great stuff

Randy

Mike Parsons
01-16-2006, 03:43 PM
Had a chance to maiden the Harrier yesterday. I will get to that in a bit.

The battery tray once installed gets some velcro mounted to it. The 6S 3.2ah pack goes all the way back to the wing tube for the CG to be neutral.

Mike Parsons
01-16-2006, 03:53 PM
This shows the installation of the DPM unit, UBEC, and external LED/Audibal warning system. All of this equipment resides behind the wing tube. Having all of this (plus three servos in the tail) aft of the CG and not having to jam the battery all the way to the firewall tells me that the tail is built very light. Normally on conversions, I have to get everything as far forward as possible or add dead weight to the nose to acheive CG. This was refreshing to have so much room to play with.

Mike Parsons
01-16-2006, 03:59 PM
The last task is the Hatch. Installing a hatch latch has become a staple in my conversions. We have to be able to get to the batteries quickly and the best way of doing that is by having a quick release mechanism.

I use the best latch (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/hatchlatch.htm)from Hobbylobby. The installation of this latch took about 15 minutes. The latch is epoxied to a balsa plate and that in turn is CA'd to the top of the turtle deck from the inside. A latch run (for the latch handle to slide freely) is cut out of the turtle deck.

And finding where the pin will contact the hatch is very easy. Pull back the latch and install the canopy/hatch. Let go of the latch and let it snap against the canopy. Do this one or two times and it will indent the wood showing you were to drill your hole for the latch pin. Voila...2 second access :)

Mike Parsons
01-16-2006, 04:30 PM
With everything now done, I had a chance to fly yesterday as Mother Nature decided to play nice.

With almost 1100 watts on a 16X8 measured, I knew it would be plenty for this 6lb airplane.

All I can say is wow. The take off roll was as short as I have ever seen and it would climb verticaly with no signs of slowing down. The Power 60 BL is more than adequate. A few passes around the pattern and I stood the Harrier on its tail. It was very easy to hold a hover with no signs of it wanting to torque roll. Bouncing between half throttle and three quarter throttle was all it took to keep the Harrier in a hover. I gave it full and it would steadily climb without slowing. Rolls are a blur and axial at full rates.

It was time to see how the plane would harrier. After all, that was it's namesake! I have to say that this plane lives up to it's name. This plane will harrier like their is no tomorrow. It took me a minute to find the right amount of elevator and throttle, but once I did, it was effortless. I gained more and more comfort and began to bring them down.
Knifeedge flight had a bit of coupling to the belly, but no roll coupling and inverted required a little bit of down elevator and that is how I prefer it.

After about 6 minutes, I setup for a landing. The thick airfoil allowed the Harrier to slow down nicely and it just floated in for a perfect landing.

This is an excellent plane and the power package is equally matched for it.

I wish I could tell how much capacity I used, but the Skyvolt charger does not have a screen nor can I hook up a wattmeter in line to determine this due to the proprietary connector.

A definate winner!

Jeff Boyd 2
01-16-2006, 11:15 PM
Another nice job. Mike. Well done.

Mike Parsons
01-17-2006, 03:40 PM
Thanks Jeff. I am editing the flight video. Most of it will need to go to the review, but I plane on posting a minute or so teaser here as well.

-Mike

Mike Parsons
01-18-2006, 09:16 PM
Here is a 5mb Review Trailer. (http://epowerflight.com/RCU/harriertrailer.wmv)

termite
01-19-2006, 12:36 AM
Lookin' GOOD Mike :D

Randy

Jeff Boyd 2
01-20-2006, 12:02 AM
Video's great, Mike. Oh no . . guess I gotta get one of them tooooo ! !

Cheers, Jeff

Mike Parsons
01-20-2006, 01:51 AM
Thanks guys.

Randy,
How did that Mega powered Harrier turn out?

termite
01-20-2006, 03:58 AM
Flies AWSOME but I'm waiting on some pinion gears so we can fine tune the system. Amp draw is a little high at WOT.

Randy

Rugar
01-20-2006, 05:00 AM
Nice job on this one Mike. Sure doesn't look like it lacks anything in the power department :D.

Mike Parsons
01-20-2006, 03:30 PM
Flies AWSOME but I'm waiting on some pinion gears so we can fine tune the system. Amp draw is a little high at WOT.

Randy
Cool..get video! :)

Mike Parsons
01-20-2006, 03:31 PM
Nice job on this one Mike. Sure doesn't look like it lacks anything in the power department :D.
Definately not lacking. I was honestly suprised at how much power it had. Verticle punch is ballistic.

tahustvedt
01-20-2006, 11:44 PM
Nice video. It seem like a very good flyer.

StephenT
01-23-2006, 03:12 AM
Mike


I was going to do this one, but found another Magic for $79.99 and opted for. it instead. Good job on the build.




StephenT

watt_the?!
01-23-2006, 06:26 AM
we had one of these at last year's easter rally....

termite
03-08-2006, 09:35 PM
Well!?!?!?!
My buddy has decided that with a gearing of 3.33 to 1 drawing 38 amps Hot of the charge and leveling out at 35 amps with a 16x8 apc is the way to go for his taste. (Mega 22/30/3 - MEC Superbox)
This setup is using a 6S 4400 PolyQuest 10c pack and this should make for very little stress on the packs; everything running cool to touch.
Hovers nice, has excellent pullout and needless to say he is a happy camper :p

We'll try to get some vid next time out.

Randy
www.dynamoelectrics.com (http://www.dynamoelectrics.com)

Mike Parsons
03-08-2006, 10:00 PM
The 22/30/2 and Superbox is an awesome combo. If he is only pulling 38 amps, he isn't coming close to pushing that motor. I would love to see some video of that.

Harrier 3D 14mb (http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/633/harrierhigh.wmv)

termite
03-08-2006, 10:56 PM
Plenty of head room on the motor and battery but the plane flies GREAT as is so this should add to the life span of the batteries.

It's all good :p
Randy

tone
03-10-2006, 08:39 PM
Man that thing harriers well!
Too bad we didn't have better lighting for the video, the covering looks great in the sun.. Nice flying and editing Mike..

StephenT
03-27-2006, 02:30 PM
Great job Mike.


Will you bring it SEFF?