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Domino
01-14-2006, 02:20 AM
I bought a Firebird Commander with the hopes of teaching myself to fly... with the eventual goal of getting to an EDF like the Alpha Model MIG-15. I also have and fly a Blade CP electric helicopter that I'm learning on (can hover tail in and side in, and am starting on forward flight excersizes).

Ok, so I'm about a week into flying this Commander. Have been flying it almost daily on my lunch breaks at work. Seems to me I've kind of outgrown it already? I've disabled the beginner mode on the transmitter and can pretty much fly and land it without incident.

How do I know if I'm ready for ailerons? Should I be able to hop right into the MIG-15 or should I look for another trainer type airplane with ailerons? I'm just afraid that if I go that route I'll outgrow it too quickly like the Commander and be sorry I didn't just get the MIG.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

k-vette
01-14-2006, 03:56 AM
You should definately get something in between. I think a good aileron trainer is needed before jumping to the warbird type planes. The speeds they fly at as well as the handling characteristics make them more difficult. You may want to look at getting a radio that will work well with an aileron plane and later the mig to avoid buying more than one radio. You could then just use the servos, receiver, transmitter and all that in the next plane you buy. There are plenty of trainer planes around with ailerons. I think many people like the GWS E-starter for this. (The foam is easy to fix if you crash) You may want to check some of the planes on Hobby-Lobby as well. I like the look of some of those. For example, http://hobby-lobby.com/soareasy.htm It looks like a good aileron trainer, but I don't have any experience with it.

Domino
01-14-2006, 02:11 PM
Thank's for the reply k-vette. After reading about the lack of replacement parts for the Alpha Models I'm starting to shy away from those now anyway. A lot of the E-Flite stuff is carried by our local hobby shop so maybe I'll go that route. The Mini Ultra Stick AR might be a good choice, or actually looks like the P47 is less expensive so this might be a good way that I could get right into the warbirds.

Turbojoe
01-14-2006, 03:51 PM
You're ready for ailerons. You're just not ready for the planes you want to fly. EDF's and warbirds are not generally thought of as a next step from something like a Firebird. You may get lucky and have success but it's more likely you'll leave the hobby frustrated. I've seen it too many times.

The Mini Ultra Stick has the appearance of a high wing trainer but looking at the specs it'll be a fun plane for a more experienced pilot. Especially with the split flaps etc. They are also calling for a lot of power and it's very heavy at 22 ounces and up. I'm considering getting one.

If you are willing to build then take a look at the Mountain Models (http://www.mountainmodels.com/) Dandy Sport or the SwitchBack Sport. For all intents and purposes they are just high and low wing versions of each other. Either one would be the IDEAL next step for you. Being laser cut they build very fast and very light. Nothing out there can fly as well as these two planes. Do a Google search for the SwitchBack then sit back and read a couple of weeks worth of praise for this plane. You can build it as the sport model then when you're ready to progress into aerobatics you can get the $20.00 high performance GT wing for it. Change the wing and you have a completely different performing plane. It'll fly WELL on the cheap GWS 300 motor package or you can go absolutely wild with it. I've flown mine with outrunners and inrunners. I had a Hacker B20-15L in one for a while which was truely overpowered. I still have the first SwitchBack I bought almost 4 years ago (#8 is on its way) and the first Dandy from almost 3 years ago. Even though I fly a heli and twins along with other high perf planes I still fly the SB and Dandy regularly. These are planes you don't "outgrow". You'll keep them in your hangar for many years to come.


Joe

meatball
01-14-2006, 09:46 PM
if you are comfortable flying that model, then making the jump to ailerons shouldnt be that hard at all. If you've ever played a flight sim, you're familiar with the concept. However like stated, you may want to look at a more intermediate/beginner airplane.

n001pa
01-15-2006, 12:50 AM
I know it's probably not your style, and it sure aint no Mig-15, but I think a GWS E-Starter is about the best aileron traner I have seen. They also have the Corsair that I think flys as easily as the E-Starter.

fabricator
01-15-2006, 01:31 AM
Last summer I started on a comander, then went to a great planes yard stick, then to a Mountain Models magpie, the magpie with the aileron wing is very easy to learn ailerons with it really floats, I just got a mini ultra stick and nosed in on the first flight, it is very fast and very unforgiving, not a plane for someone who is just moving up from a commander, I highly recommend the magpie, cheap and hard to kill.;)

Gullwing
01-15-2006, 04:06 AM
Funny thing is I have never been able to keep a plane without ailerons in the air. My first plane was elevator and rudder, never did fly it more than a few feet. My second plane was the BeginAir with fullhouse controls, and was the first plane I could really fly. (wore it out) So I never buy a plane that don't have them. Nine planes and two helis later here I am still flying. I guess I'm weird that way..............GW

Domino
01-15-2006, 02:19 PM
Thanks for all the comments everyone. It' nice to see so many opinions and experiences. Being the stubborn SOB that I am, I decided to go ahead and get the E-Flite P47D. I also got the DX6 Transmitter. Unfortunately I got the P47 unpacked and noticed that one of the wing tips was broken, so I'll have to take it back to the hobby store today :( It's too windy to be out flying this weekend but I was hoping to at least be able to work on getting it put together.

Boy, going from RTF to ARF is a big deal in the electronics department. I'm a little stumped on how the ESC, Battery, Recievier and motor all fit together. Seems that every single wire has a different connector than the other one.

TManiaci
01-15-2006, 05:52 PM
I'm a little stumped on how the ESC, Battery, Recievier and motor all fit together. Seems that every single wire has a different connector than the other one.

Here is a photo showing the basic wiring of a brushless system. There are three wires to the motor, no polarity to be concerned with. If the motor turns the wrong way, swap any two wires. You typically use slip connectors to go between the motor and ESC to make install and maintenance easy. There are many sizes and styles on these, I use solid brass 2 mm on less than 20 amps and 3 mm on anything over 20 amps.

The ESC plugs into the Rx on the throttle channel, and provides power to the flight controls while getting the throttle signals from the RX on the same lead. We generally don't use switches on Lipo-brushless setups to save weight and improve reliability. Just turn on your Tx, then plug in the Battery. Make sure your throtttle is at the bottom stop, unless your ESC has an idle safety feature(most do). In that case, the throttle won't arm until you pull it down to the idle stop, and you deliberatly put the throttle up while plugging in to prevent motor surprise startup.

The battery connection is usually a crap shoot depending on the manufacturer, and you generally have to redo one or the other to match up. I use the Micro Deans connectors (shown) on less than 20 amps, and the regular Deans on over 20 amps. The polarity conventions are defined on the packages. These are polarized connections to prevent reverse polarity.

n001pa
01-15-2006, 07:09 PM
Good luck with your P-47. Let us know how it all turns out.

Domino
01-16-2006, 04:53 PM
Thanks TManiaci, that photo helped.

Decided to just repair the little wing ding from the factory so I could continue working on it this weekend. Got everything together and balanced. Looks and runs great.

Played with the dual rates on the new transmitter, have it set for 50% Elevator and 70% Ailerons (per another thread specific to the P-47). Now ready for the maiden flight. Am going to be patient and wait for the perfect day. Will let you know how it goes.

Flew the commander this morning in some pretty high winds, makes for a wild ride. Accidently hit a goal post (flying at the football field) and the commander survived it without a scratch, I'm sure the P-47 would not have faired so well :)

helo-watt
01-16-2006, 08:21 PM
Domino, my Commander has outlived itself several times over! Goal posts, light posts, trees, pilot error, and even a strike from an over-zealous mockingbird. Cats wish they had this many lives! Your thread's pretty interesting, as I'm in exactly the same place in my "training"...ready to go to a 3 or 4 ch ship. I really like e-flite's products, i don't think it will be a bad try at all. I had my eye on the P-47 too. I'll be looking forward to that first flight report. What radio system are you gonna use? I've decided to get the new Spektrum 6ch. I figure that will taake me into pretty much anything I can grow into down the road.

Domino
01-16-2006, 09:02 PM
Yep, I got the Spektrum DX6 with it, nice radio. It's all installed and ready to go, just waiting on a calm day :)

TManiaci
01-16-2006, 09:03 PM
Guys, go for it. I think the aileron control is far more natural, and I think you will agree once you taste it. If you have a simulator, practice there if you are concerned. If not, get a buddy-box going with an experienced flier. On a 4-channel trainer platform, no biggie, fly it.

The big issue is the aircraft. A P-47 is pretty ambitious for a first 4-channel plane. Not the worst choice, but pretty agressive. The warbirds fly fast, heavy on the wing and are fairly unforgiving with hot landings. You will probably struggle to get her down the first time or two until you get the whole "fly it in" thing. It's not a trainer, where you can line it up and chop the throttle, plop it's down.

My two cents...

helo-watt
01-17-2006, 03:34 AM
TMan...Yup...confirmed..these warbirds are no trainers. Today, as luck would have it, I went out with a friend and used his P-51 from Kyosho. Nerve-racking. He had it up to altitude "three mistakes high" and I ran out of my alloted mistakes and altitude pretty quickly. They don't glide very well, and are quite a bit faster than trainers...scary. I wish we had a video of me yelling "take it, take it, take it!!!" while I handed him the radio. Nice save...could've been a James Bond stunt. As I've said before...I'm in no hurry, so I have now confirmed that the low wings are another step away. -Paul

AEAJR
01-30-2006, 08:41 AM
Ok, so I'm about a week into flying this Commander. Have been flying it almost daily on my lunch breaks at work. Seems to me I've kind of outgrown it already? I've disabled the beginner mode on the transmitter and can pretty much fly and land it without incident.

How do I know if I'm ready for ailerons? Should I be able to hop right into the MIG-15 or should I look for another trainer type airplane with ailerons? I'm just afraid that if I go that route I'll outgrow it too quickly like the Commander and be sorry I didn't just get the MIG.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Depends on how daring you are. Glow guys typically start on ailerons, but they also start with instructors on buddy boxes.

How agressive are you on the Firebird Commander? Are you flying it as an easy going floater, almost like a powered sailplane, or are you agressively trying the limited aerobatics the plane can handle?

What is your budget for your next plane?

Are you ready to commit to a radio and ARF plane or kit, or do you need to stay in the RTF catagory?

If you have plenty of room to fly AND need to stay in the RTF category AND you want something faster and more aerobatic, then the F27 Stryker or the space scooter might be a good next step.

F27-Stryker - RTF - $170
Fun Keep-in-the-car plane
Just pop off the tail fins and it goes back in the box!!!!!
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=PKZ1200 (http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=PKZ1200)
Discussion
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233)
Video
http://rc-galaxy.com/Video/F-27_Stryker_Richard_Harris_7-9-04.wmv (http://rc-galaxy.com/Video/F-27_Stryker_Richard_Harris_7-9-04.wmv)
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/parkzone_F27_stryker_smallformat.wmv (http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/parkzone_F27_stryker_smallformat.wmv)
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/parkzone_stryker_video.wmv (http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/parkzone_stryker_video.wmv)
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=392 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=392)


Multiplex Space Scooter - RTF
A more up to date version of the Sky Scooter Pro above
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV5&P=7 (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV5&P=7)
ARF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV4&P=7 (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV4&P=7)
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=548 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=548)
Video
http://www.bungymania.com/videos/films/spacescooter/spacescooter_sun_stunt.wmv (http://www.bungymania.com/videos/films/spacescooter/spacescooter_sun_stunt.wmv)
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/548/SpaceScooter.wmv (http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/548/SpaceScooter.wmv)



If you are ready to buy a hobby grade radio AND go with an an easy kit then the Mountain Models Magpie might be a great next step. Available with 2 wings, you can start with 3 channels R/E/T and get used to that, then switch to the aileron wing and advance on the same plane. There is a huge following for this plane.

Magpie - with both wing kits - $55
Easy to build Foam kit -
Has trainer wing AND aileron sport wing
Master the first, then advance to the second.
They offer a complete package with both wings and all the electronics for $160
http://www.mountainmodels.com/magpie.php (http://www.mountainmodels.com/magpie.php)
discussion threads
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3502851#post3502851 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3502851#post3502851)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306795&highlight=SmoothE+build (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306795&highlight=SmoothE+build)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3502851#post3502851 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3502851#post3502851)
Video - slow fly wing
http://www.mountainmodels.com/Magpie.wmv (http://www.mountainmodels.com/Magpie.wmv)
Sport wing
http://www.mountainmodels.com/MagpieSP.wmv (http://www.mountainmodels.com/MagpieSP.wmv)


RADIOS

Starter Radios

I have a very specific position on radios. Don't buy a Standard Radio!!!

Computer radios are now so inexpensive and offer so much more than standard
radios that it doesn't make sense to get anything but a computer radio. Don't
get me wrong, there are many good standard radios, but for only a few bucks
more you get a much more capable computer radio that can do more for you than
any standard radio and can save you money by time you get the second plane.
They can also make it easier to fly your plane, perform aerobatics and more.

In short, computer radios give you things like model memories, exponential, a
variety of surface mixes and more; features not found on standard radios.
Your computer radio can store the profile for many planes and reset itself for
each plane by just selecting the model. Standard radios don't have model
memories or a lot of the other features that computer radios offer. With a
computer radio, you only need one radio to fly a bunch of planes, rather than
dedicating a radio to each plane, or resetting the radio each time you change
planes. Computer radios are great! In the end, they are cheaper. more
convenient AND can make it easier for a new flyer to learn to fly.

These are 6 channel radios so they will let you fly more advanced planes when you are ready.

Spektrum DX 6 - $199 - For the committed Parkflyer pilot
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM2460 (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM2460)
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=623 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=623)
If your plans are to fly small to medium sized electrics, often called
parkflyers, hand launched gliders with wing spans under 60 inches, this might
be your best choice. The DX6 is suitable for flying around 1500 to 2000 feet
out. That is about 5-7 football fields away. This is more then enough for
these plane and further than most people will fly them. It has a nice mix of
features, 10 model memories and is backed by Horizon Hobby, so you can be
confident of good service. You will never worry about channel conflict again.
This promises to be the RC technology of the future.

Digital DSMT Spread Spectrum Modulation
10 model memories, dual rates, exponential, 6 channels, 8 standard mixes and
three programmable mixes. No crystals needed and no channel conflict control
needed

DX6 Flight experience thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452817&page=2&pp=15 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452817&page=2&pp=15)
More information on DX6 - Spektrum
http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/Better/DX6.html (http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/Better/DX6.html)


Futaba 6 EXAS - Entry Level 6 Channel Computer Radio - $160
micro receiver, 3 micro servos, Switch- $160
Receiver in this package is not appropriate for sailplanes or glow planes.
OK for parkflyers/low speed electrics.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJUV7**&P=ML (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJUV7**&P=ML)

The Futaba 6EXAS is an entry level computer radio for the committed flyer who
also plans to fly glow planes, thermal duration gliders or electrics over 60"
wing
span. Six channels, 6 model memories, a good mix of features and convenience
that will carry you a long way. The link is to a package that is good for
parkflyers, but there are other packages if you need larger/stronger
components for larger planes. For about $30 more than standard 4 channel radios, are miles ahead in capability!

Airtronics VG 6000 - $160
http://www.airtronics.net/VG6000.htm (http://www.airtronics.net/VG6000.htm)
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEUY5**&P=7 (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEUY5**&P=7)
This particular package is very attractive for small electrics. Comes with two
small servos AND a 20 amp ESC. 6 channels, 4 model memories, a good mix of
features to carry you forward. The VG 6000 is also available with larger
components so it can also fly glow planes, and TD gliders that need greater
range than the DX6 offers.

There are lots of other good choices in computer radios that have more
channels, more features and a higher price. however these would be excellent
choices for the first time radio buyer or someone stepping up from RTFs who
knows they will continue in the hobby.

Domino
01-30-2006, 01:34 PM
WOW AEAJR... lot's of info there, THANKS!

Here's where I'm at.

I did buy the DX6 and the P47D. I have not yet flown the P47D, kind of scared too after seeing how nice looking, and fragile it seemed after building it.

I've been flying very aggresively with the Commander, and have broken the tail boom and knocked the motor loose. I fashioned a splint for the tail boom, re-rigged the motor and it's back flying again. Have been flying it in horrible windy, gusty conditions and it's a handful, but at least I'm flying.

Saw a great deal at Tower Hobbies and couldn't resist, the Great Planes Wright Flyer was only $49 with speed controller and battery. I built it this weekend and went out early AM Sunday morning to maiden it. Conditions were perfect (or so I thought), no wind. Since I've been so used to flying in windy conditions I don't think I gave it enough "umph" when I tossed it and it quickly headed towards the ground.

I should have flown the commander first and I would have realized that with no head wind it needs a little more to get going.

So anyway, a bit of panic and a sharp pull up caused the flyer to veer up and back around to the right, heading straight at me. More panic and into the ground. Very minimal damage for such a fragile looking model.

I flew about 20 minutes on the Commander before going home to repair the damage on the flyer. A cracked canard, sliced lower wing and a couple of the frame braces pulled out, not too bad. All back together now and ready for another try.

Not discouraged at all, loving every minute of it :) I know I can fly this Wright Flyer and looking forward to the next flight. Then I'll try the P47. I've been flying the simulator a lot also so think I should do ok.

AEAJR
01-30-2006, 01:41 PM
That was an extremely helpful post you just made.

Based on that, I would highly recommend the Magpie.

You have a radio - Nice choice!

You have kit experience

You need 3 channel experience and you should transition to 4 channel pretty quicly.

Magpie would be my #1 recommendation. Bulid and fly it with the slow fly wing first. Get good with that. Then add the sport wing and work on your flying with that. You will be ready for your war bird.

Domino
01-31-2006, 04:01 AM
Again, just wanted to thank everyone for their opinions in this thread and to post a picture of my son with the commander.

6813

AEAJR
01-31-2006, 05:00 AM
Yep! Looks like a pilot to me! Domino, I am sure if you are nice to him, he will teach you how to fly it someday. Maybe! :D

Doppelganger
01-31-2006, 05:24 AM
Is there anyone that can help you with the maiden. I understand that you've mastered the Firebird, but the P-47 flies light years differently. I'm thinking your Commander has given you a false sense of security. Not saying that you "can't" fly it. Just saying there WILL be a learning curve. Keep the control rates low, and learn about expo. The spectrum doesn't support expo for the rudder and elevator, but it does for the ailerons. Go with at least -70. Thats negative 70.

Remember that when you bank left or right, the aircraft will not right itself. It will go where it's pointed. This may all be moot, as you may just be a natural. I'm wishing you the best of luck.

Steve

x50v
02-03-2006, 08:32 PM
Well I am a beginner. I flew a gas job with ailerons and did quite well on take off and landing. I bought my SS and all within about 2.5 seconds I took off hit about 8 feet altitude and then the ground. All happened so fast, I ended up buying a new boom. I was used to using ailerons and not the rudder, I added ailerons and I am waiting for no wind. ;-}

watt_the?!
02-03-2006, 09:56 PM
This may all be moot, as you may just be a natural.

Steve

absolutely...some people just pick it up straight away. i think a flight sim is the single best tool going around.

my first plane from a trainer (aileron with club buddy boxes) was the F4U corsair (glow)(despite many warnings from others) ....scared the cra* out of me the first flight...but managed it..actually we had low cloud and fog that day and it made matters worse when i flew into cloud a few times...ended up having to fly where the clouds werent.

The thing is, i didnt want to risk my plane ''trying'' stuff at the field, so learnt on the sim and then was pleasantly surprised to replicate it in real life....gotta love those sims...

so dont be too scared of the p47....just be prepared to part with it for some reason, and be overjoyed when you take it home in one piece.

Tim

SKYPILEIT
02-24-2006, 12:58 AM
I find it easier flying with ailerons and I think most others will say the same.You really should get a good aileron trainer and several hours of stick time before moving to fighters/or even sport type planes.The beforementioned Dandy or Switchback will do nicely,if you are scared of crashing it,go with a T-52 foam trainer from www.JKAerotech.com (http://www.JKAerotech.com started) I started on one 3 years ago and it served me well.Almost unbreakable...

Jeremy Z
02-24-2006, 01:19 AM
The spectrum doesn't support expo for the rudder and elevator

I'm pretty sure it does have expo for the elevator. It's just the rudder that has to go without.

Domino, It is great that you are not discouraged after having crashed your Wright Flyer. That is probably the best trait you can have, coming into this hobby. ;)

I wouldn't fly the P47 yet. I would also probably go brushless from the getgo, so that you have the oomph to pull out of some troubles if you need to. Underpowered warbirds can be a nasty thing.

Ed's advice to go with the Magpie sounds great to me. I would just add that you should make sure you tape it up. It is made of regular (albeit thick) styrofoam, and doesn't really become durable until it's taped.

Check out Patrick Plawner's starter plane article. The Magpie is in there. It doesn't come out tops, but you're not exactly a beginner any more.

Here's the article: http://plawner.net/3/1st_plane/1st_plane.html

Here's the specifics on the Magpie: http://plawner.net/4/magpie/magpie.html

It also doesn't hurt that Patrick's wife is....

err... ummm....

easy on the eyes :D (http://plawner.net/3/1st_plane/winner_pictures/index.html) ---> http://plawner.net/3/1st_plane/winner_pictures/index.html

watt_the?!
02-24-2006, 01:32 AM
ive never seen those patrick pages....is this the same guy...oldpilot? if it is, those pics are of his daughters i think...

what an excellent site regardless of who the guy actually is....that stuff is golden for newbies!

Tim

watt_the?!
02-24-2006, 01:37 AM
oh i see..patrick mcgrath is the guy!!...those are his genes in the pics!

i think that this may be the single best site ive ever seen for beginning e planes.

Jeremy Z
02-24-2006, 11:28 AM
Tim, what the heck are you talking about? It is Patrick Plawner's website I'm talking about. The attractive lady is his wife.

Is it another post you're referring to?

WAK
03-15-2006, 11:47 PM
:D I'm sorry guy's, I looked at Patrick Plawner's website pics, and swear I did not see any planes... Jeez, I thought this site was about flying!

watt_the?!
03-15-2006, 11:57 PM
[quote=Jeremy Z;48011]Tim, what the heck are you talking about? It is Patrick Plawner's website I'm talking about. The attactive lady is his wife.
[quote]

is it?...oh my mistake then.

i see he has noted Patrick McGrath as a contributor to his site and kow very well about Patrick's (McGrath) pics and models (the female kind). It just really looks like them.

other than that i cant see how PMc wouldve contributed.

apologies if i got this wrong...

Tim

crxmanpat
03-22-2006, 08:13 PM
is it?...oh my mistake then.

i see he has noted Patrick McGrath as a contributor to his site and kow very well about Patrick's (McGrath) pics and models (the female kind). It just really looks like them.

other than that i cant see how PMc wouldve contributed.

apologies if i got this wrong...

Tim
Tim,

You are thinking of some of the guys on RCGroups in the "Model your model" thread. Patrick Plawner (forget his handle) lives in the middle east, and uses his wife to model planes for him. Patrick McGrath (OldPilot) lives in Australia, and his daughter Jerusha is a fashion designer. OldPilot likes to convince the models that come by to pose with one of his planes.

Yes, the pictures are quite extraordinary! Both McGrath's and Plawner's.

Pat

Bill G
04-13-2006, 03:08 AM
How do I know if I'm ready for ailerons?

I not sure if the transition can ever be all that smooth. I juct enjoyed the experience the same way one does, when pushing a car out of a busy 5 way intersection at rush hour. Just don't try it the first time on a GWS P51! Don't ask me how I know this.

LannyG
04-18-2006, 05:26 PM
I bought a Firebird Commander with the hopes of teaching myself to fly... with the eventual goal of getting to an EDF like the Alpha Model MIG-15. I also have and fly a Blade CP electric helicopter that I'm learning on (can hover tail in and side in, and am starting on forward flight excersizes).

Ok, so I'm about a week into flying this Commander. Have been flying it almost daily on my lunch breaks at work. Seems to me I've kind of outgrown it already? I've disabled the beginner mode on the transmitter and can pretty much fly and land it without incident.

How do I know if I'm ready for ailerons? Should I be able to hop right into the MIG-15 or should I look for another trainer type airplane with ailerons? I'm just afraid that if I go that route I'll outgrow it too quickly like the Commander and be sorry I didn't just get the MIG.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Just depends on how much of a gambler you are. On the one hand you could just get the Mig and possibly save the intermediate step. But...you could get the Mig and destroy it in 4 seconds. Then you'd still have to buy the easier aileron plane and buy ANOTHER MIG too. If you bought the aileron intermediate plane you could probably fly it and get good enough to then get the Mig and fly it successfully too. No planes destroyed. You would probably enjoy flying and owning both planes. Odds are that skipping the intermediate step is false economy. But who knows, you may get lucky. And YOU get to make the decision which way to go.
LannyG

socal swimmer
09-02-2006, 01:14 AM
ok right now i have a slow stick, stock motor, and nimh batt. it is fun, but i would like to move up to a plane with ailerons pretty soon. not this second, but soon. what package would you recommend? i looked at that one post (great post btw) and which radio would be best? they all looked basically equal, cept the DX6 had 4 servos compared to the 3 and 2 of the others. which plane is best? i saw magpie and switchback.... but also i would probably go into the hobby shop closest to me and ask them, and get a plane they had. something about ordering a plane online seems a little ... not right to me.

Turbojoe
09-02-2006, 02:26 AM
I hate to sound like a broken record but if you're willing to build you just can't go wrong with the Mountain Models Dandy Sport or SwitchBack Sport. It's such an awesome plane that I chose it for a scaled down scratch build project. I'm in the finishing stages of a scratch built 75% SwitchBack. I've made both the Sport and GT wings for it. The GT wing spans 23 1/2 inches and the Sport is 28 inches. I'll post pics of it when I have finished and test flown it. I expect it to fly just like its full size brother. In a word...awesome!

As far as being cautious with online purchases I can understand your reluctance. However......Mountain Models is probably one of the most stand up, customer oriented kitters on the web. Even since Brian bought Doug out he has maintained the same customer relations that brought Doug to God like status among R/C parkflyer kitters. You can buy from them with complete confidence.

Although you'll need little assistance with the build you can count on Mountain Models as well as tons of proud kit owners to help you out if you need it. I'm just a P.M. away and eager to help you succeed with a Dandy/SwitchBack build.



Joe

Grasshopper
09-02-2006, 02:44 AM
Mountain Models has GREAT customer service, fast shipping, good quality and great support after the sale.

AEAJR
09-02-2006, 02:58 AM
I hate to sound like a broken record but if you're willing to build you just can't go wrong with the Mountain Models Dandy Sport or SwitchBack Sport. It's such an awesome plane that I chose it for a scaled down scratch build project.

..............................

Although you'll need little assistance with the build you can count on Mountain Models as well as tons of proud kit owners to help you out if you need it. I'm just a P.M. away and eager to help you succeed with a Dandy/SwitchBack build.
Joe

OK, here is another vote for Mountain Models.

I have their Boomer, side arm launched glider ( 2 of them ) and am buidling the SmoothE right now.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_29_76&products_id=224

The foam wing is easy to build and you cover it with tape. Very very easy.

They have two wing options for it that I purchased. A slow fly wing, with ailerons and a sport wing with ailerons. An excellent package for an aileron trainer.

The build is very very easy. The parts are all keys so they interlock and you just drop a little CA to glue it.

Essentially this is similar to the Magpie, but with a balsa fuse instead of foam.

Magpie is great too and also available with two wings. The slow fly wing on the magpie does not have ailerons, but the sport wing does.

Either of these would be good aileron trainers for you.


And yes, if you are solidly into parkflyers ( not glow planes, not sailplanes ) then the DX6 is probably your best choice.

Turbojoe
09-02-2006, 03:18 AM
So there ya go. It's unanimous. Everyone LOVES Mountain Models! :D

Seriously though, you'll be very happy dealing with them no matter the model you decide on. I personally don't fly foam but the SmoothE (balsa-foam hybrid) and the Magpie (all foam) are very nice planes as well.

As far as the DX-6 goes I think it's a winner. You can't beat the deal for this system at 200 bucks. You shouldn't need to upgrade for a LONG time. That in itself saves you a ton of money.
As soon as they come out with a module to plug into my Futaba 9C TX I'll be first on the list to buy it!

Joe

Grasshopper
09-02-2006, 03:19 AM
So there ya go. It's unanimous. Everyone LOVES Mountain Models! :D

Seriously though, you'll be very happy dealing with them no matter the model you decide on. I personally don't fly foam but the SmoothE (balsa-foam hybrid) and the Magpie (all foam) are very nice planes as well.

As far as the DX-6 goes I think it's a winner. You can't beat the deal for this system at 200 bucks. You shouldn't need to upgrade for a LONG time. That in itself saves you a ton of money.
As soon as they come out with a module to plug into my Futaba 9C TX I'll be first on the list to buy it!

Joe

Yep, I have the Magpie AP with a DX6 on it. I love it!

socal swimmer
09-02-2006, 03:52 AM
ok your help has been awesome. i think ill go with the switchback sport (so that i can upgrade to 3-D later) and the DX6 transmitter. but one thing. do the servos that come with the DX6 work on the switchback? the servos are S75s and the plane recommends HS-55s, GWS Picos, or similar. do S 75s count as similar?

how much do speed controllers cost?

Turbojoe
09-02-2006, 04:15 AM
ok your help has been awesome. i think ill go with the switchback sport (so that i can upgrade to 3-D later) and the DX6 transmitter. but one thing. do the servos that come with the DX6 work on the switchback? the servos are S75s and the plane recommends HS-55s, GWS Picos, or similar. do S 75s count as similar?

how much do speed controllers cost?

There ya go. You won't be unhappy with the SwitchBack!

While I prefer the HS-55's to the S-75's they'll be more than adequate for you. And yes, they'll fit the SwitchBack just fine.
I'm a big fan of brushless motors with Castle Creations speed controllers. I love the Phoenix 10's and 25's. I understand the lower priced Thunderbird line from Castle Creations is an excellent choice as well. If you are going with a brushed motor I'm sure someone else can chime in here. I haven't flown with anything but brushless for a couple of years.


Joe

Turbojoe
09-02-2006, 04:19 AM
If you can handle the extra $20.00 go ahead and get the GT wing at the same time. It'll save a bit in shipping. ;) You'll be ready for it in no time anyway. The SB will get you comfortable with ailerons in no time. Just remember, it'll turn just fine on rudder only if you need it to!


Joe

socal swimmer
09-02-2006, 04:33 AM
im definetely going to go brushless/lipo. and ill get the better wing too. is it a common enough plane that the hobby store near me would have it, or at least be able to help me with it?

ill probably get the plane as a christmas present, as i cant really pay for it myself. so ill be waiting a little while... but i got my best flight out of my slow stick today, and that seems like a fun little plane now that i can actually fly it well. :-D

AEAJR
09-02-2006, 05:48 AM
I am 99% sure Mountain Models is only available via internet and phone.

Great people! Wonderful customer service.

I just finished the Smooth E Fuselage. about 2 hours. The whole thing is keyed together and you drop a little CA. Amazing piece of work!

socal swimmer
09-02-2006, 06:38 AM
the 10 amp is 50 $ ... i think i would be better off with teh 25 or 30 $ one. should i get the 9 amp or 18 amp? how many would be used by that plane?

AEAJR
09-02-2006, 04:07 PM
The motor I am going to put in mine draws 9 amps on a 11.1V 3 cell lithium pack. That is about 100 watts.

For my Smooth E, at 16 ounces that will give me 100 watts per pound which should give me plenty of power for fun aerobatics on the sport wing and lots of good climb for soaring on the slow fly wing. :)

The slow fly wing is larger and has more dihedral. That means I can fly the plane slower and that it will be more self correcting which is what you want as a trainer. I will use it for thermaling and for teaching others how to fly the plane.

the sport wing is shorter and flatter. I will have to fly the plane faster but it will be more aerobatic. Not good as a flight trianer but good as an aerobatic trainer/sport plane. :D

socal swimmer
09-02-2006, 06:45 PM
one last question (i think)- on the specs it says that the plane weighs 9 oz without the battery. does this include motor, servos, receiver, and esc?

it recommends 3S 800 mah+ lipo. how much would this weigh, and about how much would it cost? i saw 4 oz for a 1200mah one that was a 2s. is it important that it is 3 s? all of the 3s one that i saw were 20 amp continuous or higher....

would a 75 watt motor get me sustained vertical climbinb, or 3-D hovering? if the plane is 13 oz (9oz for plane + 4 for battery) then i would have 92 watts/pound on a brushless setup. would this be enough to go vertical?

Turbojoe
09-03-2006, 04:12 AM
Vertical climb and hover is the last thing you should be concerned with right now. The SB will hover but it is a chore to make it do it. It's not a 3D plane. Vertical climb is easy to achieve with the right motor/prop/battery. I fly my "Ole Betsy" 4 year old SB with an AXI 2212/34 and a Thunder Power 3S 730mah pack. She weighs 13.0 ounces ready to fly. This same plane has been flown with many different power packages. The heaviest was the Hacker B20-15L and 10 1100mah KAN Nimh cells! It must have weighed close to 20 ounces! Still flew awesome.
Get a 100 watt motor, a 15-20 amp ESC (the Thunderbird 18 will be fine) and a 3S Li-Po pack. You'll be in heaven.


Joe

stevecooper
12-29-2006, 12:15 AM
S Swim :: Put some alerons on a slow stick, The fun just keeps on com'in, About 30$ Y-harness, two 12' ex's, two mirco servos, and about an hour to install, Maybe a E-Starter-EASY-FUN!!!your bub, steve

stevecooper
12-29-2006, 12:23 AM
sorry our sites not let'in me post pixs!! ARRRGGH!!!your bub, steve OOPS!!! ALL FIXED NOW,

tgifia
01-01-2007, 11:57 PM
-

n001pa
01-02-2007, 12:58 AM
I had great luck with Areobirds years ago but I think only the Swift has ailerons. You might also be interested in something like a GWS E-Starter.

As far as rudder, elevator planes go you can't go wrong with a Slow-Stick. You can have alot of fun with it stock and then upgrade it about as far as your imagination can take you.

Good Luck,
Carl

AEAJR
01-02-2007, 01:42 AM
I don't know the Walkera 60, so I can't judge what that is or how it relates to your planes.

If you have never flown and RC airplane and plan to learn on your own, I suggest a 3 channel plane. You listed all RTF planes so I will keep my suggestions to RTFs.


HobbyZone Super Cub - $159
This is the only semi-scale plane on my list. I have not flown this
one but the flood of excellent reports leads me to recommend
it to new flyers. If you REALLY need a plane that looks like
something people would be in, this is the one I will recommend.
It takes the same Xport accesories as other HobbyZone and ParkZone
planes so you can drop bombs, parachutes and attach other accesories
to extend your fun. There has a steerable tail wheel so
you can effectively taxi the plane. Great for ROG launches.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HBZ7100 (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HBZ7100)
Photos and Videos
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/ProductGallery.aspx?ProdID=HBZ7100 (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/ProductGallery.aspx?ProdID=HBZ7100)
Other Excellent Video - Hi res for high speed connect users
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567625#post6040744 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567625#post6040744)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=1051938 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=1051938)
manual
http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/HBZSuperCubManualCropped.pdf (http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/HBZSuperCubManualCropped.pdf)
Discussions on the Forums
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12218 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12218)
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?p=2130521#post2130521 (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?p=2130521#post2130521)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593044#post6385310 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593044#post6385310)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550899 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550899)

Easy Star - RTF - $180
I have flown the Easy Star - Great plane for new flyers!
Super tough foam. Good parkflyer and a good glider
In the US the RTF package comes with a 72 MHz radio
system that can be used to fly other planes
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp (http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp)
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFXV0&P=ML (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFXV0&P=ML)
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp (http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp)
Build Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459096 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459096)
Videos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv (http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv)
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv (http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv)
Mods, upgrades and more
http://www.mpx-easystar.de/ (http://www.mpx-easystar.de/)
Add Ailerons - Start at post 195
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408&page=13&pp=15 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408&page=13&pp=15)
Travel Box
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468625&goto=newpost (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468625&goto=newpost)

Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric - $110 -
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I have over 600 flights on my Aerobirds. I
also thermal and slope soar this plane. Flies well and stands up to hard
landings. Their add on fun accessories for night flying, air to air combat
and drop module add to the fun! The combat module makes a great lost
plane locator, even if you don't plan to fly combat. Great keep in the car
plane - take off the wing and it goes back in the box fully assembled.
Most can't do that!
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_hobbyzone_aerobird_challenger.htm (http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_hobbyzone_aerobird_challenger.htm)
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Discover/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=1289#Page01 (http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Discover/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=1289#Page01)
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621)
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html (http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html)
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/aerobird_challenger_loops.wmv (http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/aerobird_challenger_loops.wmv)

This plane has ailerons but may be suitable for you.

Multiplex Space Scooter - RTF
A more up to date version of the Sky Scooter Pro above
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV5&P=7 (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV5&P=7)
ARF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV4&P=7 (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV4&P=7)
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=548 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=548)
Video
http://www.bungymania.com/videos/films/spacescooter/spacescooter_sun_stunt.wmv (http://www.bungymania.com/videos/films/spacescooter/spacescooter_sun_stunt.wmv)
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/548/SpaceScooter.wmv (http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/548/SpaceScooter.wmv)
Brushless - 2 cell Lipo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MnPuV8Zlhc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MnPuV8Zlhc)

If you will have coaching or will be working on a buddy box, then I suggest 4 channel aileron plane. I don't see one on the list.

Wing Dragon 4 Aileron Trainer - $140 RTF
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/wingdragon4.htm (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/wingdragon4.htm)
Video
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/media/AT3302-WingDragon4.wmv (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/media/AT3302-WingDragon4.wmv)

BeginAir - RTF or Receiver ready
RTF - $180 Receiver Ready - $110
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/begin-air.html (http://www.parkflyers.com/html/begin-air.html)
RTF includes a 4 hour house charger. Plan to spend an added $20-$50 for a
peak charger for use at the field.
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=443 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=443)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=583645 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=583645)
video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/beg3vid.html (http://www.parkflyers.com/html/beg3vid.html)
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/443/BeginAir.wmv (http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/443/BeginAir.wmv)
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445663 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445663)

Cesna 182 - 4 Channel RTF - $180
http://www.ewebcart.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?merchant=3210&add=1&item_id=144 (http://www.ewebcart.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?merchant=3210&add=1&item_id=144)
Includes 72 MHz radio and wall charger.
Sku# 4303 $179.99 4 Channel with 72 MHz Radio
(Intermediate Level Recommended)
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/cessna_long_movie.html (http://www.parkflyers.com/html/cessna_long_movie.html)

tgifia
01-02-2007, 02:23 AM
-

AEAJR
01-02-2007, 02:53 AM
If you have help, get the 4 channel planes.

A better choice would be to get an ARF and set it up with a good radio and use a buddy box to fly it.

tgifia
01-02-2007, 02:55 AM
-

n001pa
01-02-2007, 03:06 AM
Will you have an instructor? The reason I ask is because I have found that for the most part the bigger the plane the easier it is to fly. Of course this isn't true for all planes but if you plan on getting a high wing trainer nitro plane and have an instructor then you might want to learn on it.

tgifia
01-02-2007, 03:38 AM
-

Airhead
01-10-2007, 01:51 AM
Hey Guys,

A lot of good information here for myself too, down the road a little maybe.:)
Thanks,

it26b
01-15-2007, 11:36 PM
Domino, haven't seen you on here lately so don't know what your status is relative to the the Wright Flyer. I have had one for several years and can offer some advise if interested. I cannpt help you with the P40. The Great Planes (Electrifly) Wright Flyer is a gem of a plane although not a very good beginners plane, but it must be set up properly. First,due to the canard configuation the balance must be dead on with very little margin. That distance is 1.125" from leading edge of bottom wing, no more than .09" off in either direction. Check this carefully and do not assume that if you put everything in the places the manual says it will be balanced. Secondly, make sure both motors are slanted UP in the FRONT at least 3/4 of the adjustment range from horizontal. Any angle of the PROPS greater than vertical in the direction I stated will improve lift-off. Your plane should have lifted off with just a gentle toss, even in still air,if not check balance and prop angle. I assume you have dihedral as opposed to anihedral. There was some problem with the string lengths and instructions that caused this problem. Anihedral was what the Wright Bros built into the real WF, but it is hairy to fly with in the model. Also, many complained that the elevator halves would not stay aligned. If the cross bar is placed in the second hole from the end on the horns, they will, any other hole and they won't. Again instructions misleading. Check and correct any problems as descibed here and you will have a great flying plane although very unscalelike in flight speed. Landing requires some power on so landings are relatively fast as well. Although you cannot stall a canard by excessive angle of attack, if you attempt to roll too hard and pull up elevator it will develope a nasty TIP stall and roll in fast.....it's not a stunt plane. The 300 mAh supplied battery will only give you 3-4 mins of safe flight. Hope this helps and Good luck with the Flyer and the P40. I have over 70 flights on my Flyer and nothing has ever broken.


Jim

kolarshooter
01-17-2007, 02:09 AM
Is there anyone that can help you with the maiden. I understand that you've mastered the Firebird, but the P-47 flies light years differently. I'm thinking your Commander has given you a false sense of security. Not saying that you "can't" fly it. Just saying there WILL be a learning curve. Keep the control rates low, and learn about expo. The spectrum doesn't support expo for the rudder and elevator, but it does for the ailerons. Go with at least -70. Thats negative 70.

Remember that when you bank left or right, the aircraft will not right itself. It will go where it's pointed. This may all be moot, as you may just be a natural. I'm wishing you the best of luck.

Steve

I know this posting is old, but since it's a sticky I thought it best to chime in...

Doppelganger; Good intentions but completely wrong!

Your advice will make the plane almost uncontrollable.

JR/Spectrum radios require POSITIVE expo to soften the sticks. Futaba (and others) require NEGATIVE expo to soften the center. So, a person will need + expo...

For control throws, follow the manufacturer's instructions, not the settings in someone else's radio. For example, if someone says "my low rate is 40% with +35 expo" this means nothing. Your two planes are set-up differently, and ATV's will likely be different...what you want to do is compare control surface deflection (throw) on high rates, low rates, etc. Expo pretty much translates directly...just remember that a Futaba guy's negative expo values need to be entered as POSITIVE values in the Spektrum and JR radios.

I fly with the DX-7 (and JR 9303) so I don't know first-hand, but I have to think that the DX-6 would support Ail & Ele DR and EXPO.

Best of luck!

raptor-9
01-24-2007, 11:39 PM
I think it's all about time and money-if you have time,download a free plan-not a compicated one at first-you can build great models with foam,they are easy ,quick & cheap to build-balsa ones, need more work- If you have the money-just go for it!-don't think too much just go flying!-I've seen novice flying (with some moitoring)all sort of type of models-- I think it all depends on you,your will and your guts!!

Balil
02-20-2007, 07:10 AM
one plane, 1 buy, trainer with alerions is the firebird swift. pusher plane like you're used to, with ailerons. check into it...

Balil
02-20-2007, 07:27 AM
tfifia, tell ya something from experience, i learned to fly on a .46 p-51 mustang. it was an extremely fast model and WAY beyond what i needed to start on, but i wanted to fly, after spending MONTHS on a sim i finally got up the nerve to go to the field and gas er up, guess what, SHE FLEW! a few clicks of alerion trim and this thing was flying as straight as an arrow and fairly fast 45-50 mph, ended up having to land dead stick because i was having so much fun flying this thing that i wasnt paying attention to my stop watch, which is a good idea to have when flying nitro, landed the bird, recharged the flight pack, gased her back up and i was in the air, at the field by myself, flying a real model for the first time, looking back on what i did, i do not recommend it but sometimes things of the sort just happen... if you REALLY wanna learn to fly, you'll fly...

FORDEVR
10-15-2007, 05:22 AM
If you have flown once or never you are ready for ailerons. Just forget you have a rudder and throw it instead of trying to take off. Rudder to control on ground and Ailerons to control in the air.

Stan-the-Man
12-14-2007, 08:58 AM
...That's easy! When you are tired of flying with the tail you have! :Q

I was going to add, "...and you can afford more repairs and planes." :red:

OK, I know when to leave... :o

ganst949
04-24-2008, 04:18 PM
Nevermind, I bought one.

helo-watt
06-27-2008, 12:06 AM
WOW !! Thanks so much for all the advice and concern !! I have been overseas for almost two years, and it was such a great welcome to see that the forums were still going, and YOU, THE COMMUNITY was still answering. Hands down, no argument, THIS is the single best model A/C community in the world. YOU GUYS ROCK. Now, down to business, time to go re-learn how to fly !!!

Lancifer
07-09-2008, 10:36 PM
Interested in hearing how Dominos flight went with his p40....anyways lets hear itDomino!!!

CygnusX1
07-10-2008, 02:40 PM
I've never flown a plane without ailerons. From day one, I wanted them. I had no trouble with them at all. Of course, all of my planes have been gliders of one form or another with realatively low roll rates.

AEAJR
07-10-2008, 03:02 PM
The answer to the question of when you are ready for ailerons varies from person to person.

If you have an instructor or a coach, follow their advice. They may prefer you to start on an aileron plane.

For self trainers, the use of ailerons is not prohibited, however planes that are designed for R/E/Throttle tend to be more self correcting than planes designed for ailerons.

Some self trainers can go right to ailerons. But my observation is that self trainers seem to do better and advance more easily with fewer crashes with high wing, high dihedral planes that are designed for R/E/T then those designed for ailerons.

The primary value of ailerons is more positive roll control. However many self trainers suffer from over control initally. It is much easier to over control the plane when it has ailerons.

The negative of ailerons is that planes designed for this tend to be less self leveling and less self correcting since they don't need high wing dihedral in order to roll the plane. With a plane designed to roll based on rudder input the plane MUST have high dihedral wings in order to turn/roll. This makes all R/E planes self leveling and more stable by necessity.

There are aileron based planes that do have high dihedral designs. The GWS e-starter comes to mind as a good example. You can fly this plane on rudder alone without the ailerons.

So, it is not the presence or absence of ailerons that makes the plane a good choice for self trainers. It is the wing design and stability of planes that do not have aileorns that causes them to be recommended as first planes for self trainers.

Your experience may vary.

chiefredelk
03-10-2009, 12:59 PM
When I came back to the hobby I came back on ailerions. For the life of me I can't understand WHY anyone would start out training with a 3 channel plane.. When you fly a good smooth alieron ship you will see what I mean...Recently, I purchased the TW Cessna 747 all foam plane. They say it's EPO. I can't say.. It came with a 370 brushed in a gear box with an 8 inch orange prop. I made a prop saver out of a servo arm..Mine was shipped for under 100 bucks.. NOW, I see them for up to 200 bucks but I feel that is over priced.. The foam is soft so most of my plane ( leading edges trailng edges under the wing etc.) is covered in wide clear packing tape..I used epoxy to assemble the planet..IT flies like a dream and has plenty of power to do what I want. I recommend packing tape along the bottom of the fuselage too. This is soft foam and does ding up easily..The tape works like a dream to make the plane stronger.... Compared to my Wing Dragon, HZ Swift and Phantom the Cessna 747 is my favorite plane to fly..It's a full 4 channel system that can be moved to another plane.. The servo's don't look good but I have new ones on hand bought from Headsuprc for about 6 bucks each..So far I have replaced only the alieron servo..The motor brushes are weak and if you break thye motor in under water they will burn out very soon. Frankly, I love the plane but I don't think it's a good deal if it cost more than about 115 / 120 bucks delievered. However,, it sure out flies my Wing Dragon and the servo's are just as good if not better...The wing span on this Cessna is about 36 inches. It's white foam so I air brushed it yellow. It does fly well. I did not like the Cessna 182 I had before. It seemed to tip stall badly. You can see a video at Bannahobbies if you are interested. I made some important mods so anyone who wants to buy this plane feel free to contact me. I think the mods are important.

rcplaneguy1
10-08-2009, 02:18 AM
Hi Domino, i have the EXACT same problem! On my youtube channel (rcplaneguy1) and another friend of mine suggested the new Micro Parkzone P-51D thats a BNF (if you have a 2.4ghz controller) and RTF. It is a 4ch plane and im going to buy it and reveiw it.
Good luck!
rcplaneguy1

camazar
10-09-2010, 03:44 AM
Maybe you should start with Ultra Micro first so the insult to injury won't be so bad when just Beginning to use more of the 4th Channel...?

NickMcEnjoy
10-10-2010, 06:38 PM
My first trainer was a Hobbico Select, four channels, gas. Some more gas planes later during last ten years. Recently I found electric planes are a lot more practical in many ways. I can even fly the Night Vapor in a parking lot and the mCX2 in my bedroom! I am not very quick, so I like to fly slooooooooooooow :D

Happy flying!

PlaneCraz3d
11-01-2010, 04:13 PM
Hello everyone, first post! My first plane was also a Nexstar Select nitro plane. I still consider it to be my first plane as I have not solo'ed it yet. I have flown in about 4 times on a buddy box but did not feel ready to try a full solo yet. I have now stored that plane for a while and have been flying the sport trainer foamie (built several actually;-)) from mikeysrc. It is a 3 channel Aileron, elevator, throttle plane. Scratch building has been a whole 'nother thing to learn but it ahs been fun and I have learned alot about flight characteristics and plane setup during the experience. I have not flown anything without ailerons so I can't say if I would be any better without them.

AEAJR
11-01-2010, 04:34 PM
The question posed by this thread only applies to pilots who are trying to learn on their own. If you have an instructor, and will be flying on a buddy box, it doesn't matter if you start with ailerons or not.

You are ready for ailerons, as a self trainer, when you can fly your current R/E plane reliably, where crashing is a rare event, and you can easily handle flying toward yourself.

The following may help people understand this whole aileron vs. rudder thing. As it is not really about ailerons, but about the design of the aircraft.

Ailerons vs. Rudder Designs
Which is better for new pilots?
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

The question of ailerons vs. rudder only models, as a preferred design for
new pilots, comes up all the time. People mistakenly focus on the control
surfaces, but the real question or issue is the dihedral of the wing and the
wing's placement relative to the fuselage. Let's discuss this and try to
help clear up the question.

First, let me say that if you are working with an instructor, it makes no
difference whether your plane has ailerons or not. Your instructor will
help you learn the function of the surfaces and how to manage the plane in
the air. This is especially true if you will be training on a buddy box.
So, follow your instructor's advice as to what plane or what kind of plane
to get. As long as you are only going to fly under the supervision of an
instructor, it makes no difference. Follow their lead.

But what if you plan to try to learn to fly by yourself? Or maybe you will
have a little help from a friend but will be doing most of your learning on
your own. NOW it makes a difference.

There is no law of nature that says you can't learn to fly on a plane with
ailerons. Lots of people do it. But the R/E only planes seem to provide an
easier starter set-up for new self-trainers. Let's see why this is true.


Elements of a good first plane for a self training pilot.


High Wing. - Having the wing located on top of the fuselage places the
weight of the fuselage below the lifting surface. The plane will tend to
want to fly with that weight below the lifting wing, so the plane will want
to remain stable and have less tendency to roll on its own. So high wing is
best for new pilots. Low wing designs tend to roll very easily so they are
much less self leveling. They are very happy to go inverted, bad for a self trainer.

High Dihedral - The angle of the wing as it extends away from the fuselage
is called the dihedral angle. In some planes the wing may have several
angles. These are called polyhedral wings. In some planes the wing will
come out flat from the fuselage having little or no dihedral angle. The
more dihedral angle in the wing, the more stable the plane will be as the
wing will want to level itself naturally. The flatter the wing, the less
stable the plane will be and the less self leveling.

Because a flat wing is much less stable it is the preferred design for
aerobatic planes. And since a flat wing plane will not tend to self level,
the pilot has to do it or the plane will likely fall out of the sky. A flat
wing plane requires the pilot to be much more skilled and attentive.

So a good self trainer, both in models and full scale planes, will have a
high wing with a lot of dihedral. In many cases, if you let go of the
sticks, this design will right itself and return to level flight if it has
enough time and altitude. Again a good design for new pilots who are trying
to learn to fly on their own.


Rolling the plane - direct vs. indirect

In order to turn an airplane we roll the wings so that we redirect the lift
into the direction of the turn. If we did not roll the plane it would tend
to skid sideways.

Ailerons - Ailerons roll the wings directly by changing the shape of the
wing which modifies its lift characteristics. We tend to put the ailerons
on the outer section of the wing so we get the most effect from the
smallest deflection which reduces drag. The outside aileron goes down,
generating more lift. The inside goes up generating less lift, and the wing
rotates. :)

But if you put ailerons on a high dihedral wing, the aileron is no longer
flat out from the fuselage, it is at more of an angle. The higher the angle
the more the aileron starts to look like a rudder. So ailerons on the outer
apsect of a high dihedral wing will generate more and more of what is
called, " adverse yaw" which means that they will try to pull the plane away
from the turn.

Rudder - If you apply rudder to a high dihedral wing plane, the rudder will
swing the tail around. This presents the bottom of the leading wing and the
top of the trailing wing to the oncoming air. This causes the wing to roll
and allows you to turn the plane. It is this coupling of yaw and dihedral
that allows a rudder only plane to turn. Once you realize this you see that
you can not efficiently turn a flat wing airplane with rudder only, you need
ailerons. But if you have high dihedral wings, you can do it with rudder
alone.


Putting it all together

So, if you are a new pilot who will be training on your own, you would
likely want a plane that is designed to be very stable and very self
leveling in order to have the plane help you get out of trouble. A high
wing, high dihedral wing design will do this best. This is the design of
most rudder only or rudder/elevator airplanes. That is why many people will
recommend these planes as the preferred design for new self training pilots.
This is also why taking a plane designed for ailerons and disabling the
ailerons is not the same as having a plane designed for rudder alone.


Compromise designs

Now, some planes have a compromise design. Planes like the GWS e-starter
are high wing high dihedral designs. They also have ailerons. GWS has
created a compromise wing that is not really the best at rudder only or the
best at ailerons, but is OK with either use.

The Multiplex Easy Glider is another example. There is enough dihedral in
the wing that you can turn it with the rudder, but response will be
sluggish. The plane has aileorns, but in order to minimize the adverse yaw
effect they are placed in the center of the wing. This makes them less
effective than ailerons on the outer part of the wing, but since this is a
glider, not an aerobat, this compromise works pretty well.

There are other planes that make a similar design compromise. However
remember that disabling the ailerons does not make the plane more stable or
more self leveling. It just means you have one less control surface to
worry about. Disabling the ailerons on a plane that is designed to fly with
ailerons will likley result in a plane that flies poorly and that is never our goal.

PlaneCraz3d
11-01-2010, 04:53 PM
Thank you AEAJR for that information it was very helpful. I guess I was a bit brief in that last post. I started with an instructor but due to work restrictions and a long drive to the field I have been trying to teach myself with electric foamies. The learning curve has been slow but I feel gratified with what I have learned so far, having learned it for myself. Much of it was learned right here in this forum. I have been thinking about getting a 3 channel plane without ailerons like the multiplex easystar to see if I do any better with it.

NickMcEnjoy
11-02-2010, 04:13 AM
I wished I had foamies back then. They are indestructible so it does not matter how many channels the plane has. You fly more you learn fast.
I crashed at least three "balsa" trainers, one (red) "Stik", one Pete n' Poke... I learned very slowly because I was too afraid of crashing. Preparing a gas flight was a pain too. Well some people like to do the "pre-flight" stuff, but other people just like to fly, like me.

AEAJR
11-02-2010, 10:37 AM
I wished I had foamies back then. They are indestructible so it does not matter how many channels the plane has. You fly more you learn fast.
I crashed at least three "balsa" trainers, one (red) "Stik", one Pete n' Poke... I learned very slowly because I was too afraid of crashing. Preparing a gas flight was a pain too. Well some people like to do the "pre-flight" stuff, but other people just like to fly, like me.

Did you crash these planes while using a buddy box with an instructor? The buddy box is the appropriate way to learn to fly a glow plane as they tend to be larger, faster and heavier than the typical small electric used for self training. You may not have known that at the time.


Preflight stuff is required for all pilots flying any kind of aircraft, fuel or electric. Preflights for electrics may be different and perhaps simpler, but they still have to be done. If you don't want to do proper preflights then you should not be flying as you represent a danger to yourself and those around you.

NickMcEnjoy
11-02-2010, 06:40 PM
Hello!
Did you crash these planes while using a buddy box with an instructor?

No. I crashed them after several solos. I already "graduated" and my mentor let me solo. First time when I flew with my mentor, he asked whether I already flew before because my maneuvers were good. I crashed them because I was so scared of losing. That led to mistakes.
Btw, I have never seen anyone crashed anything while using a buddy box with an instructor.

The buddy box is the appropriate way to learn to fly a glow plane as they tend to be larger, faster and heavier than the typical small electric used for self training. You may not have known that at the time.

Yeah I knew that :)


Preflight stuff is required for all pilots flying any kind of aircraft, fuel or electric. Preflights for electrics may be different and perhaps simpler, but they still have to be done. If you don't want to do proper preflights then you should not be flying as you represent a danger to yourself and those around you.
I did not say that I don't want to do proper preflights. I always do preflight checks and I believe I did them properly. I just don't like them. I also don't like to go to school. School sucks. But I must go to school because it helps my bottom line :D I have done quite well in school, although I always hate it :Q

Flywhat2
12-17-2010, 04:43 PM
Re; "flat wing" difficulties. Do you know the Lazy Bee and now Stevens Aero "Sky Buggy"? The Sky Buggy has R/E only. I am NOT an experienced pilot, (I have'nt completed build yet), but will this plane give me fits? and what should I watch out for ?

stevecooper
12-17-2010, 11:29 PM
Re; "flat wing" difficulties. Do you know the Lazy Bee and now Stevens Aero "Sky Buggy"? The Sky Buggy has R/E only. I am NOT an experienced pilot, (I have'nt completed build yet), but will this plane give me fits? and what should I watch out for ?


Keep it light as you can, she's got a fat wing chord (lots of lift):D, and she's a easy plane to fly from what i've read check'in around for this post,:cool:, and look's to be a good trainer as long as you don't try her in any wind,,(that'll come later;)), what are you going to fly her on?? motor, esc, batt, Etc, bubsteve
PS keep the control surface throws LOW as she's got a short Fuse:ws:!!bubsteve
http://www.stevensaero.com/images/cache/samcat-6dbde717b8f8af0eca7853c57ebfb3ca.jpg

Flywhat2
12-18-2010, 10:39 PM
Steve, Thanks for tips. I am going to (try) to fly on:

BL 2208-14 outrunner (1450kv,130 W, 16 amps max),
9x4.7 Slo-fly prop,
T'bird 18 amp ESC by Castle,
AR 6110 Rcvr
E-flite 800 mah 2s LiPo,
HS55 servos.

Think that'll do it? I will set control surf throws at min on control horns and rate at low on DX5e radio. Is that too conservative?
Thanks much,Fly:silly:

Electrolight
06-10-2011, 07:28 AM
ailerons aree neat ;)

Toons1978
06-13-2011, 01:30 AM
Glad to see this board has so many helpful and knowledgeable members willing to explain things in detail.

Rockin Robbins
06-13-2011, 01:52 AM
You are ready for ailerons if you fly a plane with ailerons and succeed!
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/presenting.gif

As a practical matter if you have an instructor and a buddy box or an instructor that has a method of easily assuming control of the plane you can confidently start out with ailerons from the beginning.

If you're on your own, you need to feel absolutely comfortable flying your three channel plane. You know when your predominate feeling goes from "don't crash, don't crash" to "wow, this is fun, wow, this is fun." When you've turned that corner and crash rarely and know exactly what you did wrong if you do crash, you're ready for the next step: ailerons.

But you REALLY only know if you're ready if you try it and succeed!:D

azwarbird
08-14-2011, 12:27 AM
tfifia, tell ya something from experience, i learned to fly on a .46 p-51 mustang. it was an extremely fast model and WAY beyond what i needed to start on, but i wanted to fly, after spending MONTHS on a sim i finally got up the nerve to go to the field and gas er up, guess what, SHE FLEW! a few clicks of alerion trim and this thing was flying as straight as an arrow and fairly fast 45-50 mph, ended up having to land dead stick because i was having so much fun flying this thing that i wasnt paying attention to my stop watch, which is a good idea to have when flying nitro, landed the bird, recharged the flight pack, gased her back up and i was in the air, at the field by myself, flying a real model for the first time, looking back on what i did, i do not recommend it but sometimes things of the sort just happen... if you REALLY wanna learn to fly, you'll fly...

That's pretty much what I did. I just wanted to fly. I bought a HZ Super cub to get my feet wet, next day I picked up a hf p51 and a PZ f4u Corsair. I taught myself the do's and don'ts of a full control plane with the p51. I put the f4u together and haven't looked back. That was 6 days ago today. No simulator and no formal training, just the desire to fly. The p51 is petty beat up though but for 80 bucks I don't feel bad .

speeddaddy
05-22-2012, 03:06 PM
[popcorn]Hi everyone, just trying to get my 2 posts

Rockin Robbins
05-22-2012, 04:32 PM
[popcorn]Hi everyone, just trying to get my 2 posts

Looks like you've got it speeddaddy. Welcome to Wattflyer!

matiac
06-18-2012, 02:40 PM
I have to agree with what was said earlier about those P47s. Not accounting for the nearly non-existant weight, the little 400mm one I have is a BEAR to fly. Would most likely fly a lot better in the calm, but days like that here are few and far between. However, with that said, I have flown the micro several times in the wind with positive results, so I'm thinking the much larger version I've got (Airfield/FMS pictured at left) should be a lot more forgiving, AND it's got flaps (6 CH.) to slow it down for landings. I can't imagine flying a plane without ailerons...

1geo1
07-27-2013, 03:04 AM
I " learned" a long time ago- now it is coming back- the "Sig kit flies great"
but you really want to learn on a 4 channel- " do they make a telemaster kit anymore"

fhhuber
07-27-2013, 03:07 AM
Telemasters are still available in all sorts of sizes as kits and ARFs

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/telemasters_216_ctg.htm

They recently went through updates of several to modern laser cut kits.

1geo1
07-27-2013, 03:09 AM
Probably the wrong place to post this- but our "easy" rc models need more attention than
regular aircraft- in some cases YOU are the designer/builder/mechanic/ and ground personall
IMHO

AEAJR
07-27-2013, 03:11 AM
I " learned" a long time ago- now it is coming back- the "Sig kit flies great"
but you really want to learn on a 4 channel- " do they make a telemaster kit anymore"

Thousands of pilots, including myself, learned on 3 channel and have enjoyed the hobby immensely. In fact, some stay with 3 channel forever.

Your smileage will vary.

1geo1
07-27-2013, 03:14 AM
absolutely no disrespect intended- the Buzzard Bombshell would be my perfect example of a 3 channel aircraft

1geo1
07-27-2013, 03:16 AM
but remember I got ousted by a club who already HAD their members in club

AEAJR
07-27-2013, 03:33 AM
but remember I got ousted by a club who already HAD their members in club

Whatever that means.

Ace007
01-15-2014, 03:06 AM
A good friend of mine told me "if you can make people think that it has ailerons, they you're ready for them."(He was referring to my Flyzone Super Cub.) I believe that ailerons make the plane so much more realistic and areobatic.

maxflyer
01-15-2014, 03:21 PM
Since RC flyers don't have to pass a written or a check ride, many don't really understand the function of ailerons, or their proper use in coordinated flight. Ailerons are not something to be feared. They actually extend the flight envelope in several useful ways.

Where inexperienced RC flyers can get in over their heads is when they choose an aircraft type that incorporates a high roll rate. The model's response to inputs can be surprisingly quick and it's not difficult for the pilot to get behind things. Try to get hold of some basic info on aircraft flight controls and study it until you fully understand their functions, and how and when to use them.

That said, I am a private pilot, but still a relative RC noob myself. The responses required for RC flight are very different than those necessary for a full size AC, and as I am still conditioning myself to work with the physical disconnection from RC models, I find it necessary to have models with slower responses at this stage.

I have constructed a couple of scratchbuilt foamy trainers for myself, to serve this purpose. They cost me just a few dollars and a few hours to construct, fly just as well as most $200 factory trainers, and go a long way towards reducing the pucker factor while learning. If I crash, my main concern is retrieving the gear from the airplane, though it is usually the case that the plane itself is easily repaired due to it's simple nature (No...they don't look like warbirds, but in the air I don't even notice).

I have little success in convincing younger flyers to go this route, even though they would be far better off for having learned something about how to build, equip, trim, and repair a model. But then...I've been on this planet for quite some time, and the species seems to have chnged.

DavidR8
01-15-2014, 03:29 PM
I have constructed a couple of scratchbuilt foamy trainers for myself, to serve this purpose. They cost me just a few dollars and a few hours to construct, fly just as well as most $200 factory trainers, and go a long way towards reducing the pucker factor while learning. If I crash, my main concern is retrieving the gear from the airplane, though it is usually the case that the plane itself is easily repaired due to it's simple nature (No...they don't look like warbirds, but in the air I don't even notice).

I'm interested in the plans you've used for your foamies. Can you share links?

maxflyer
01-15-2014, 04:51 PM
Years ago, at the tail end of the brushed motor era, I dabbled briefly with teaching myself to fly using a cobbed-together 3CH glider I constructed, using a toy store chuck-glider foam wing and a slab of blue construction foam as the fuselage.

When I got back in a year or so ago I continued my self-instruction using a great 3CH profile design by Charles Pirkey, called the STC Trainer, the simple plans for which are still available on RC Groups.

That design not only served to get me comfortable with flying 3CH in a variety of conditions, and to a point where landings were second nature...it also taught me tons about the new Brushless and LIPO technologies, and re-introduced me to the RC marketplace.

My next step was to construct another 3CH design of my own, which was more suited to flying in some wind, and also familiarized me with what it was like to have an enclosed fuselage in which to mount my gear. All this time I am learning techniques for building with foam.

When I got to the point where I was totally competent with 3CH flying I constructed my own 4CH trainer using dimensions from a known good-flying type which someone else had already designed and tested. No plans were involved. I just kind of hacked things together, discovering more tricks and techniques along the way, such as my own simple, but sturdy landing gear design, which I could apply to many future models.

If one is willing to forgo the urge to have a "scale-looking" model right out of the gate, you will find the internet rich in free ideas and designs for good flying sport and trainer models that are inexpensive and easy to build, without actual plans. All you need are the basic dimensions of the airframe components. Since these components are going to end up being unsophisticated, usually rectangular, shapes and forms, they are easy to hack together on the fly. You will make mistakes and waste some time and material (Hey...that's what cheap foam is for), but are unlikely to make the same mistakes again.

Over time you develop experience that enables you to start tweaking things to find out what happens. Does it make any difference if I round off the wingtips instead of leaving them square? What happens if I mount a larger motor to this airframe?

I cannot overestimate the value of this approach. The only hobbyists this method will be wasted on are those who just want to see what it's like to fly an RC airplane, and have no real interest in models or flight.

By the time you have constructed several scratchbuilds like this, not only will your flying skills and knowledge have increased exponentially, your pucker factor will be a lot lower, and you will probably have accepted that you are likely to crash and deform any model you are going to be flying in the near future. It may change your mind about whether or not you want to dump $200 (an invaluable sum for the scratchbuilding stocks) into a pretty factory airplane just yet.

This method has served me well and makes me remember that in any hobby like this, the hum-ho factor WILL set in at some point, and it's good to have many facets to explore, to extend one's interest. I could probably write a book on this approach, but again, I find that "Kids Today" have little patience for anything besides instant gratification. Working towards a goal seems to be a concept that has been lost to most of society.

warningshot
01-15-2014, 04:57 PM
I wonder if OP is flying after all these years?

rcers
01-15-2014, 05:04 PM
I wonder if OP is flying after all these years?
Likely not....has not been on WF since May of 2006....

maxflyer
01-15-2014, 05:25 PM
My “Noobness” just burst through at the seams. Didn't even notice how old this one was. What a waste of what little rant ability is left in this old husk.

Abuelo
01-15-2014, 07:48 PM
My “Noobness” just burst through at the seams. Didn't even notice how old this one was. What a waste of what little rant ability is left in this old husk.

Max, great writeup on your philosophy and experience. Thank you for sharing.

kyleservicetech
01-16-2014, 01:48 AM
Since RC flyers don't have to pass a written or a check ride, many don't really understand the function of ailerons, or their proper use in coordinated flight. Ailerons are not something to be feared. They actually extend the flight envelope in several useful ways.

Where inexperienced RC flyers can get in over their heads is when they choose an aircraft type that incorporates a high roll rate. The model's response to inputs can be surprisingly quick and it's not difficult for the pilot to get behind things. Try to get hold of some basic info on aircraft flight controls and study it until you fully understand their functions, and how and when to use them.

That said, I am a private pilot, but still a relative RC noob myself. The responses required for RC flight are very different than those necessary for a full size AC, and as I am still conditioning myself to work with the physical disconnection from RC models, I find it necessary to have models with slower responses at this stage.

I have constructed a couple of scratchbuilt foamy trainers for myself, to serve this purpose. They cost me just a few dollars and a few hours to construct, fly just as well as most $200 factory trainers, and go a long way towards reducing the pucker factor while learning. If I crash, my main concern is retrieving the gear from the airplane, though it is usually the case that the plane itself is easily repaired due to it's simple nature (No...they don't look like warbirds, but in the air I don't even notice).

I have little success in convincing younger flyers to go this route, even though they would be far better off for having learned something about how to build, equip, trim, and repair a model. But then...I've been on this planet for quite some time, and the species seems to have chnged.

IMHO, the one big difference between Rudder Elevator Motor, and an aileron equipped model is that roll. With a REM model, hitting full rudder might give a very quick turn, but still stay right side up. At least with reasonable rudder control. But hitting full aileron (as in landing) could very well roll the model upside down. And, a newbie could panic and put it in. Once the pilot has progressed to where they are comfortable with aileron control, it does make landings a lot easier. And, those same ailerons will allow far more acrobatics in the flight pattern.

cyclops2
01-27-2014, 01:11 AM
There is a very good reason trainers... often.... come with nothing but Rudder, Elevator & motor.

:)

DavidR8
01-27-2014, 02:26 AM
As someone who flew 4-channel for the first time yesterday, I can attest to the value of the somewhat small amount of 3-channel time I had.

No question on the difference and how much 4 channels extend the fun factor.

vimy
02-23-2014, 02:25 PM
My “Noobness” just burst through at the seams. Didn't even notice how old this one was. What a waste of what little rant ability is left in this old husk.

Hello Max. Thank you for posting, your ideas are the same as mine, particularly regarding scratch and kit building. A seemingly lost art in Australia.

I learnt to fly RC planes in the early 80's, my trainer was Aeroflyte Hustler, a high wing balsa trainer with ailerons powered by an Enya 7.5cc 2 stroke glow engine. I didn't put much effort into finishing it like a professional job, it was a trainer after all.

My instructor got me learning on the aileron/elevator combination (Mode 1) of turning and keeping altitude, whilst leaving the rudder until later on. Now that I'm starting up again, I remember this technique and will be teaching myself this time.

The new plane will be an Apprentice S 15e on it's tightest flight envelope settings to minimise out of attitude conditions until I am competent again.

I had considered sailplanes (or gliders) as my first choice, but the lack of suitable slopes around locally, made this difficult.

dahawk
02-23-2014, 03:25 PM
Bimy,

From what I've witnessed at our field, I don't think you can go wrong with the Apprentice. The new revived S version with the gyro is the bees knees.

Good luck and have fun !

-Hawk

maxflyer
02-23-2014, 08:40 PM
Yes, I've even changed my initial impressions of the Apprentice. I think it serves a useful purpose, though it might not be the best option for those who are budget-limited, want something that generates less of a pucker factor, by reason of being cheaper and more expendable, or for those who see a little farther down the road and realize that a lot of money is going to be spent fully equipping themselves with all the supporting items necessary for the hobby, and perhaps they would like to spread available funds into some of those areas.

vimy
02-25-2014, 12:08 PM
Hello hawk, max.

It was this video that made the Apprentice S 15e my future choice:

http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/aeroonline/e20-safe/e20-safe.html

If the S 15e can get itself out of strange attitudes like someone holding it's tail, then it should be able to self correct anything I can get it into. :)

There are that many chargers on the market, is seems a bit of a mine field of fakes and trying to find the one that will charge your (expensive) batteries correctly.

I may have to delay my flying a little longer, I'm not sure, but I may have acquired a speeding fine. :|

That will mess up my schedule somewhat.

Cheers