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MountainFlyer
01-19-2006, 07:43 AM
im putting together a GWS F4U Corsair slope glider kit and i noticed there was no spar for the wing. Is this normal? does the Corsair not come with or require a spar or did someone in the GWS plant in Taiwan forget to put the bambo sticks in the box ? :)

Jeremy Z
01-20-2006, 04:46 AM
No, it does not come with a spar. I suppose if you're going to be doing high-speed dives followed by quick pull-ups & loops, you might want to add either some sort of spar or other reinforcement to the wing.

For what it's worth, I didn't add anything to my wing. I did my share of dives. I had a 150W brushless motor setup with 3S LiPos, and never had any problems.

The things that I found DID break wings were:

1) Tree branches, which reached out of nowhere
2) Catching a wing in the grass while flying inverted at full throttle & probably 40 mph.
3) Drilling it into the dirt of a naked cornfield while being distracted watching a buddy try to land a flat foamy in a 20 mph wind for 5 seconds.

My GWS Corsair was 15 oz., all-up, with a Himax 2812-0850, ThunderPower 3S 1320 mAh LiPo, two aileron servos, (HS-55s) an elevator servo, (also an HS-55) and no landing gear.

In other words, use good judgement while flying and be 100% attentive, and I bet you won't have any problems.

The bright side of my hard-learned lessons is that the poor Corsair airframe is so tatty that I have to junk it and put the guts into something else. (a Formosa) ;)

Jeremy Z
01-20-2006, 04:50 AM
Oh, and if you decide to go with two aileron servos, I highly recommend installing them such that the servo arms exit from the top of the wing. They don't have to stick up much & ruin the lines. It will be a bit trickier to do this way, but probably worth the effort.

Mount them on their sides, not on their bottoms. This way, you won't have to dig out as much of the wing to install them.

If you'll be landing somewhere hard & flat and you don't mind the aesthetic/aerodynamic penalties of landing gear, this will not be an issue.

If you manage to use one aileron servo without too much slop through painstakingly careful construction, this will not be an issue either.

vicman
01-20-2006, 02:05 PM
I don't recomend the painstaking carful one servo method.:D I concurr on the items causing wing breakage and would like to submit light poles too:eek: .

MountainFlyer
01-20-2006, 04:46 PM
laughing out loud!! :)
ok i get the picture .. basicly nothing but solid "unmoving" objects will break the wing... Im still deciding on the servo method for the aileron

Thanks for the input M.

vicman
01-20-2006, 04:48 PM
My leg did a little damage while I was trying to get out of the way once.

Use two servos and be happy.

Big_Bird
01-21-2006, 12:22 AM
laughing out loud!! :)
ok i get the picture .. basicly nothing but solid "unmoving" objects will break the wing... Im still deciding on the servo method for the aileron

Thanks for the input M.
I highly recommend the one servo aileron torque rod method. I bought RC car antenna tubes at the LHS. There are epoxied into the slot in the wing for the torque rod. They serve as very flexible guides and can be covered over with light weight spackling. Make new torque rods because you will have to bend the aileron end of the rod in place. I also drilled and inserted a short length of the antenna tube into each aileron so that the L shaped end of the rod would not be working directly in the foam. Before you slide the rod down the antenna tube put 1 drop of 3 in 1 oil into the tube. This will make for near frictionless operation.

The wing is very strong and doesn't need spars.

Jagzilla
01-21-2006, 12:42 PM
I did my servo the same way as big bird, and it works perfectly. One less servo equals less expense/weight.
The wing is plenty strong on this plane. I don't think they include a spar, because of the gull wing design of the plane. I glued carbon fibre tape on the top and bottom of my wing. Took what little flex there was right out of it. You can just see the line of the tape if you look carefully at the pics I've posted. If I was to build that plane again today, I wouldn't bother with the carbon fibre.
Enjoy your Corsair!
J

MountainFlyer
01-22-2006, 01:26 AM
thanks everyone for the input ive been a bit side tracked over the weekend so the Corsair is still sitting on the work bench in the same state it was on friday ( elevator done servo and control rod installed )
my $19.90 400XT arrived this morning in the mail still need to pick up a RX and ESC going to use a Hitec HSF-05MS RX and CC Thunderbird 18 ESC i just need to order them :)

MountainFlyer
01-23-2006, 10:11 AM
6381

I used Big_Bird's method. works great . these torque rods have the same or less load than the torque rods in my Zero so will be great for a HS-55 servo or similar.
there is a piece of the tubing i used laying on the wing next to the installed torque rod since the tube is clear its rather hard to see it once its glued in.
thanks for the ideas guys :)

Big_Bird
01-23-2006, 04:45 PM
6381

I used Big_Bird's method. works great . these torque rods have the same or less load than the torque rods in my Zero so will be great for a HS-55 servo or similar.
there is a piece of the tubing i used laying on the wing next to the installed torque rod since the tube is clear its rather hard to see it once its glued in.
thanks for the ideas guys :)
I'm glad it worked out for you. It is far simpler than dual servos and horns hanging out. One HS-55 is plenty. I can't take credit for this method. I read about it somewhere else.

MountainFlyer
01-24-2006, 01:48 AM
Yes i agree, since im belly landing it in an alfalfa field its not a good idea to have anything sticking out of the bottom because its going to get ripped off on landing. although the dual servo would be the ticket with landing gear and would make it rather easy to set up some flaperons.
I'm actually making some skids out of piano wire for the Corsair ( will post pics when i get them finished, and if they work out the way i want them to and if they don't we'll forget i said anything about them ) ;)

M

Jeremy Z
01-24-2006, 03:30 AM
MoutainFlyer, skip the skids. They're just going to catch in the vegetation.

I stripped one of my HS-55s on landing. You see, it's not that you necessarily need to keep the servo arm off the ground, you just have to keep it from catching one something.

You don't have to worry about servo arms catching on something and stripping your servo, but you don't want wire anything on the bottom of the plane to bring your F4U to a sudden halt. It'd be a kick in the nuts to have it rip a wing off when you went to all the trouble to eliminate the servo arm problem.

Leave it smooth, except for clear packing tape on the bottom of the fuselage and leading edges of the wings and horizontal stabilizer to keep the soft EPS (styrofoam) from being chewed up every time you land.

BigBird, I'm going to build my Formosa with one aileron servo and see how it works out. If the ailerons don't flutter, great. If they do, I'm going to install a servo in each wing with the arm coming through the top. Wish me luck!

VACaver
01-25-2006, 11:10 AM
I also went with the single servo method and it works fine. To get the antenna tubing glued into the wing, I found it best to only epoxy it at the end nearest the center of the wing, let it dry, then start epoxying it towards the ailerons. If you try and do it all at once, it will try and pop out before the epoxy is set.

Jeremy Z
01-25-2006, 05:24 PM
VACaver, that is a simple solution that hadn't occurred to me. (nor to many others!) It's one of the beauties of these fora; simple things occur differently to different people. We all benefit.

One guy on RCGroups was holding the whole side while it dried while watching TV, and it popped out even after he held the 5 min. epoxy for 30 minutes.

I think I might try foam-safe CA with kicker. I'll put Vaseline in the ends of the tubes to keep the CA from getting in there.

Big_Bird
01-25-2006, 05:25 PM
I also went with the single servo method and it works fine. To get the antenna tubing glued into the wing, I found it best to only epoxy it at the end nearest the center of the wing, let it dry, then start epoxying it towards the ailerons. If you try and do it all at once, it will try and pop out before the epoxy is set.
Good looking plane. Did anyone ever tell you that you look a little like Mark Harmon on NCIS?

VACaver
01-25-2006, 05:54 PM
Good looking plane. Did anyone ever tell you that you look a little like Mark Harmon on NCIS?

Nope, you're the first :)

I'll have to ask my wife if she see's a resemblance.

VACaver
01-26-2006, 12:56 AM
Good looking plane. Did anyone ever tell you that you look a little like Mark Harmon on NCIS?

I asked my wife...she thinks you need to have your glasses checked:)

She's a big fan of his and said that if I did look like him, I'd be walking around on wobbly legs (you know what I mean).

Big_Bird
01-26-2006, 04:22 AM
OK, tell her I'll make an appointment next week for a new prescription.:p

Ken

MountainFlyer
01-30-2006, 06:22 AM
Update:

plane finished.

just need to order the RX and ESC .....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/PersonX42/Corsair3.jpg

MountainFlyer
02-08-2006, 07:48 PM
got the RX and ESC in today .. finally..
put a Hitec Micro 05S in it .. nice light (glitchless) single conversion RX
got everything installed about 30 minutes after i opened the box. :)

AUW for the Corsair is 15.75oz had to add a half an ounce of lead to the noze to get her CG right .. CG is 52mm FLE...

Now .. to get the wind to go down so i can maiden her .. anyone know any good anti-wind dances? or incantations? or even the propper combination of swear words that would work? :)

M

rcers
02-08-2006, 08:45 PM
Looks good Mountain flyer - don't worry too much about the wind...it will penetrate well.

Where do you live? I am originally from Burley...my parents had a cabin in Warm Springs and then later Hailey.

Mike

Big_Bird
02-08-2006, 11:37 PM
got the RX and ESC in today .. finally..
put a Hitec Micro 05S in it .. nice light (glitchless) single conversion RX
got everything installed about 30 minutes after i opened the box. :)

AUW for the Corsair is 15.75oz had to add a half an ounce of lead to the noze to get her CG right .. CG is 52mm FLE...

Now .. to get the wind to go down so i can maiden her .. anyone know any good anti-wind dances? or incantations? or even the propper combination of swear words that would work? :)

M
Yesterday and today have been the first calm days in about 2 weeks here in Texas. Flew the Corsair both days. Had a lot of fun.

I take it that you haven't flown this one. Here are a couple of pointers. Put in a couple of clicks of right rudder if possible. Hold the plane firmly from below the fuselage and just behind the wing. Throttle up to about 50% on the throttle stick and, with your best javelin throwing olympic form, toss it at about a 20 degree up angle. Quickly grab the ail/elev stick and you are in for the ride of your life. Yippee.

I've tried just letting it fly out of my hand without the toss (my little 3D foamie does it just fine) and broke it because it had no initial speed. Corsairs don't like that.

Since I have a computer radio (Futaba 8UAF) I have a pretty good amount of throw on the flying surfaces but also quiet a bit of expo.

Good luck.

Todd Funderburk
02-09-2006, 03:06 AM
Jeremy Z you can add this to your list. Saw one of buddies do this to his. Running a Himaxx 2025/5300 and a 4s lipo he broke the wing in half coming out of a highspeed dive. For that few seconds it out ran his 4s lipo equiped Mig-15. And the Mig is the fastest bird in our group. Estimated depending on wind to be in the 70's.

Jeremy Z
02-09-2006, 05:59 AM
Mountain Flyer,

What kind of motor/battery are you using in this? Forgive me if I missed it. That will have a lot to do with how much wind you can fly it in. My Corsair came out at 15 oz. with a Himax 2812-0850, ThunderPower 3S 1320 mAh LiPo, three servos, and the Micro 05S. Although it has the power, pull, and control movement (if you set it up) to fly in the wind, you are going to have a dog of a time making a decent landing against a wind.

My advice is if you give up waiting and maiden in the wind anyhow, land WITH the wind; just make sure you've got room. You'll come in faster, but you're less likely to stall and crash while landing.

But by all means, wait for a calm day for the maiden. You don't want to be fighting wind, trimming, AND learning a new bird all at once. It's hard; I know it!

MountainFlyer
02-09-2006, 06:53 AM
The wind finally went down about 2 hours before sunset.
she flew very nice, no problems.
Its a bit slower than my GWS Zero but still quite speedy. it has nice slow and stable landing speeds unlike the Zero. the Zero is stable but likes to come in a bit hotter than the Corsair. it also doesn't quite have the roll rate the Zero has but its still nice and crisp. should prove to be a nice addition to the fleet :)

i can see now that im going to have to buy a few more batterys since i now have the Zero and the Corsair sharing them :)

Big_Bird
02-09-2006, 03:59 PM
Congratulations M. I'm glad it went well for you.

MountainFlyer
02-09-2006, 06:44 PM
Here is a picture of my "flying fleet" there are a few more but they are either retired and/or to junky to put in a picture :)
i posted the pic this way because its beyond the 97kb limit of the forum and i didn't want to down-size it anymore :cool:

Top Left: Mountain Models SmoothE
Top Right: E-Flite Mini Funtana
Bottom left: GWS Zero
Bottom Right GWS F4U Corsair


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/PersonX42/Fleet1.jpg

M

Jeremy Z
02-10-2006, 01:49 PM
That is a very nice fleet Mountain Flyer. Sometime when it is warmer out, I surely must get a photo of my own fleet...

I think I mentioned it before, but my GWS Corsair is mothballed right now; one of the planes that doesn't look good enough to show. (though I have less shame about showing a tatty-looking plane that flies well than I should, probably)

Seeing this thread progress has made me want to bring the "Hose Nose" out of mothballs, and hook it up with a basic package of spare components I have sitting around: GWS-EPS350C motor/gearbox, Electrifly 20 A brushed ESC, and two HS-55 servos. I would need to buy another servo for the one I stripped, and a receiver of some sort.

The airframe is sitting on the entertainment center in our living room now. I haven't been able to throw it out, hehehe.

Jeremy Z
02-10-2006, 01:50 PM
MountainFlyer,

From the photo, the Zero looks to have ailerons whose area is about twice that of the Corsair. No wonder it rolls better! Also, the bent-wings of the Corsair that look so menacing in flight probably don't help it in the stunt department...

MountainFlyer
02-10-2006, 05:48 PM
Jeremy,
you could wait until HL put the SK400XT back on sale for $20 and throw it in the Corsair. I'm really starting to like that motor the more i fly these two warbirds
Yes the Zero has "longer" ailerons .. but there about half as wide as the ones on the Corsair i'd have to sit down and measure them to see if there surface areas are similar.. or maybe someone out there would already know off the top of there head :)
As for looking good when flying they both do .. now i just need to get both into the air at once to get some mock combat photos ;)
Unfortunately there is only one guy i know with in 50 miles that flys and he flys a Nitro powered 60" P51D .. so the scale just wouldn't look right :)
The one advantage of living way out in the middle of nowhere is plenty of open space to fly.. but its also a disadvantage because you normally fly alone. I don't mind flying alone .. but it makes it dang hard to take photo's, but the upside is there are no witnesses to the crashes :D


M

MountainFlyer
02-13-2006, 05:48 PM
heres a Video of the Corsair flying
sorry no video

Twmaster
02-13-2006, 06:07 PM
The 400XT is currently on sale at $19.90 from Hobby-Lobby. More than enough power to make that Corsair fly scary fast. I have one on my GWS ME-109 and it is a handful.

Nice little airforce MountainFlyer.

MountainFlyer
02-13-2006, 10:07 PM
Twmaster, its tempting to buy a few more .. but ive currently ran out of planes to install them in :) both My Zero and Corsair are running the 400XT, great little motor. and at present im trying to save some coin to get another TX

Twmaster
02-13-2006, 10:10 PM
Aw c'mon Mountain, you know you want them. There will always be 400 sized planes calling out to you! :)

I'm going to get me a couple more of these motors. (I have like 8 at present)

Now a serious question. How did you mount the motor in the F4U and Zeke? In my ME-109 I cannot quite get the motor to line up correctly on the stick to put the spinner in the right position. I'm using an E-Flite outrunner stick mount.

MountainFlyer
02-13-2006, 10:21 PM
they line up perfect in the Zeke and F4U there not as critical since they have big Radial cowls and no spinner to line up. I used this Outrunner stick mount adapter from E-Flite for mounting them on a stick mount.
you have to cut the stick down a bit and on the zeke you have to remove some foam so it will clear the mount to get the motor back under the cowl using this mount but it works fine other than that.
the F4U is pretty strait forward other than cuttung the stick down a bit that big long cowl of the F4U comes in real handy :)
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=EFLM1915
there back ordered at the moment .. i guess everyone's been using them :)

Ive often wondered if there would be a pain to get everything to line up with something like a Spitfire or P51

Twmaster
02-13-2006, 10:36 PM
they line up perfect in the Zeke and F4U there not as critical since they have big Radial cowls and no spinner to line up. I used this Outrunner stick mount adapter from E-Flite for mounting them on a stick mount.
you have to cut the stick down a bit and on the zeke you have to remove some foam so it will clear the mount to get the motor back under the cowl using this mount but it works fine other than that.
the F4U is pretty strait forward other than cuttung the stick down a bit that big long cowl of the F4U comes in real handy :)
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=EFLM1915
there back ordered at the moment .. i guess everyone's been using them :)

That is the same mount I am using on the ME-109. I have not yet cut the stick back (and may just leave it as-is anyways).

I've been lusting for a ~32-36" span Corsair so I might just have to order the GWS bird.

Ive often wondered if there would be a pain to get everything to line up with something like a Spitfire or P51

If the Spit and the 'Stang are like the ME it might be a royal PITA to get right.

MountainFlyer
02-13-2006, 10:42 PM
Twmaster,
Like everyone says, The Corsair is a nice flying plane .. well worth owning one :)

MountainFlyer
02-15-2006, 03:40 AM
I was in the LHS today .. bought a new Amp/watt meter ( the E-Flite Power meter ) nice little tool.. of course i had to pull a test on a few of the planes as soon as i got the ends soldered on :)

Corsair SK400XT 3 cell TP900mAh LiPo APC 9x6 SF 10.5amps peak and drops to 10amps with in a few second. watts were between 105 and 100
Same motor/batt with a APC 8x6 SF 9.5amps peak and drops to 9 amps with in a few seconds. watt between 95 and 90

the one that suprised me was the E-flite Park 370 5400Kv inrunner in my SmoothE
its running on a GWS C gearbox ( 5.33 to 1 ) with a GWS 9070 Prop it was pulling 11.1amps ( slightly over the factory rating :)) this is with a 2 cell TP2100mAh LiPo.

M