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Nathan
07-20-2005, 03:07 AM
If you've never enjoyed a flight where the runway is water, it's something you should try. The experience is unique and has its own gravity of addiction. Welcome water flyers.

Andy m
07-26-2005, 06:47 PM
For someone who has been flying longer than I care to remember I have to admit that I have never flown from water. :o

That will change soon however as I am awaiting delivery of an E-star Models Pilatus Porter which will, after test flights, end up sitting on a set of GWS floats. Anyone have any waterproofing tips? ;)

nick.wright
08-03-2005, 02:40 AM
Andy,
What do you need to water proof? I run a set of the GWS floats on my brushless powered slow stick with no leaks (set up per the plans).

Andy m
08-03-2005, 08:35 AM
Nick,

The waterproofing question was a bit of a joke really, just to see if there were any issues with flying from water that I should know about.:)

nick.wright
08-04-2005, 01:54 AM
Andy,

Don't let your electronics get wet!!! I have to admit, I'm hooked to seaplanes!!!

callmeishmael
08-07-2005, 08:30 PM
I'm preparing to build a 1/12th scale Sikorsky S-39 from Classic Aero plans.
http://www.classicaero.com/main.php
Has anyone had any experience with this plane?

fallsflyer
08-07-2005, 11:25 PM
No experience, but a bunch of interest. I have plans from RC Modeler of an S-39 built to the scale of the Goldberg Anniversary Cub wings. A friend and I also saw the full scale S-38 at Oshkosh this past week. I have an affection for flying boats! Please post a build thread, if you're so inclined.

callmeishmael
08-08-2005, 02:34 AM
Congrats on seeing a full-scale version. The S-38 and S-39 have quite a history.
I'll be sure to post a build thread as soon as I start whacking balsa.

Dr.Fiero
08-08-2005, 06:17 AM
I built a GWS Beaver last year. I've swapped it from floats to wheels back/forth. I have to say, I've by FAR had the most fun flying it off the lake!! Lake freezes over? Who cares! Floats also make fine skids. :D

Even just running 7.2V and a 350 in it, I could do loops, and whatever else it could do with just wheels.

I've recently finished a GWS P-51. I'm almost scared to take off from a solid surface now for fear of actually having to LAND on it again!

bz1mcr
08-13-2005, 11:41 PM
Nick,

The waterproofing question was a bit of a joke really, just to see if there were any issues with flying from water that I should know about.:)

My experience is that if you are near water it will get in places you never would expect. The most basic insurance against loosing a plane to lack of control due to water is, Put the receiver in a baggy and twist tie it closed.
Trust me a wet receiver can send controls to full deflection-- driving the servos beyound normal range. The result is not pretty. Don't ask---

Post flight, open every thing that can open and sun dry! If you weigh the plane before and after water flying you will be amazed at the weight gain. Both foam and Balsa suck up water like a sponge.
Don

zappedalaskan
08-14-2005, 09:50 PM
No experience, but a bunch of interest. I have plans from RC Modeler of an S-39 built to the scale of the Goldberg Anniversary Cub wings. A friend and I also saw the full scale S-38 at Oshkosh this past week. I have an affection for flying boats! Please post a build thread, if you're so inclined.
Hi,
callme I have an old goldberg an.edition cub, I bought it at a yard sale and it was missing the cowling and a few other things. To many to mess with and it has been a parts (balsa) plane. If your building the S-39 to that scale, I'd be more than happy to send you the wing set to the goldberg cub. All the wing parts are in the kit. I have to much stuff in my hanger and as nice a cub as that one is, I just don't have time to hunt down the few parts it is missing. If interested please let me know, or if any of you guys already have a goldberg AE cub and need a parts plane/crash kit.
I'd be happy to send it to a good home where someone can use it. I can take pics if needed. The wings set or the whole plane is free, but the recipient needs to pay postage to get it there. The fuse and tail are built up and covered, the rest is kit. It is missing the left landing strut, engine cowl and the front windshield oh and the dummy radial head. Anyone interested please email me, and best of luck with your project!
Take care,
Jay

cessnajfb
08-15-2005, 11:08 PM
Float forward/aft location question.

I just cut a set of 24" floats for my Ultrafly cessna 182 and flew it this morning. Took off smoothly but flew terribly. I put the cg of the floats at the cg of the plane. How are you guys locating you floats forward/aft on your plane?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Frank

Dr.Fiero
08-15-2005, 11:15 PM
Personally - I took the easy route.

GWS plane... GWS floats..... :)

It was already setup for it! But.... The forward mount went where the wheels normally were.

See if you can spot a picture of one with & without floats, to see the balance ratio?

willyb
08-15-2005, 11:39 PM
One trick I always use in my seaplanes, both elec and gas, is to put several folded paper towels right on the CG. Water always seems to get in no matter how careful I am, and at least the paper towels will absorb most of it and keep it on the CG. You can tuck it in somewhat tightly somewhere in the CG area. If you want you can add a little scotch clear tape to hold it in place. Try it, it works!!

Bill

bz1mcr
08-16-2005, 01:05 AM
Great tip!

EpoweredRc
08-16-2005, 01:39 AM
I have flown off water one time,we quit flying Planes for a season to race RC boats and so we took our 60 size Big stick down tot he lake one day when we knew noone would be there and flew it off the water.It had floats on it when we got it from the hobby shop(got it used ready to fly) Flying off water is driffrent,it really sticks to the water when taking off and when landing its like a aircraft carrier when you hook the cable to stop you its like you have air brakes or something.
I think everyone should do it at least once.

I have seen alot of people talkign about flying off weater and I have often wondered in like the flying boat car plane how do people keep the motor and stuff dry,I mean you cant put the esc and motor in plastic bags.

Ron
08-16-2005, 07:45 PM
GWS tigermoth 400 makes into a great little float model, and it flies well on the stock motor too..

bz1mcr
08-17-2005, 04:22 AM
Ron, could you post a picture?
What floats did you use?

RT Models
08-17-2005, 08:04 AM
The Twin Otter pictured is a customer of ours. Thats the nice thing about the Twin Otter looks good on floats or on wheels.

The Beaver pictured will get a set of floats on it as well.


Thanks,

Ron
08-17-2005, 06:36 PM
The floats are GWS....... If you look at the postcards from Chilliwack section in the discussion forum on EZONE you will see pictures of it in action.

Eggvoel
08-17-2005, 08:34 PM
GWS floats, waterproofing problems. Tried 30 min. epoxy to join halves and had some seepage. Put some more epoxy on the seams and still had problems. Disassembled and reglued with Gorilla glue. Better, but still some seepage. Any suggestions of what I can run along the seams to make a permanenet seal?
These will go on an Estarter with 350 motor, C gearing and 2c 1500 lipo's. has enough power for wheels, but do you think it can get off the water?
Last question is how do you swap back and forth from floats to wheels. don't the rear struts get in the way? Thanks, my 1st look at this forum and questions have already been answered. larry

theKM
08-22-2005, 12:09 PM
I'm also on board with having everyone try water flying.

Best advice I could give is to mount your gear so that it's off the bottom of the fuselage... on a try in the middle of the fuse is best. This way, if you take on water, the gear isn't "sitting" in water no matter what orientation the plane is. The other advice is to put your Rx in some sponge rubber. This way the sponge can take on some water before there's enough water to become dangerous to the electrical operation.

Outside of this, check for bilge water every time you bring the plane out of the water. Let dry any sponge rubber that is wet, and invesigate problems as they happen.

...otherwise, I'm fairly carefree about water flying. Problems need to be pretty extreme to cause damage.


For absolute newbies to water flying... floats are the cheapest way to get to the water, but I recommend a dedicated flying boat. They're typically less prone to tipping over and generally have fewer hassles that float mounted planes encounter.

I would also of course, recommend the Twinkle... :p

http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/twinkle/daylight/twinkle_daylight_05.jpg

http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/twinkle/daylight/twinkle_daylight_03.jpg

http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/twinkle/daylight/twinkle_daylight_02.jpg

...plan is in the latest FlyRC, or from me (high quality prints with instructions) if I ever get off my butt and get some reprinted :)

willyb
08-22-2005, 02:47 PM
Hi Larry,

We have been involved putting together several sets of the GWS floats. We have used 30 min. expoxy too. It seems that one of the most critical parts is to have a very accurate cut on the pvc plastic lip that glues to the foam. It is best right in the beginning to have this absolutely perfect with no overhang on the top. Rough up the inside lip well. Then, like you did, check for leaks. We had several leaks too, but a little more epoxy on the seam, pushing in the leak area so far has held things together. They are a bit of work, more so than they should be. We spent about as much time on the floats as the Beaver!! I just use the Beaver on water so do not have the removal issue. I am using a brushless Aurora 300DF motor in a GWS 400 GBX and 3 cell 830 Lipo. I moved the front of the battery box up so it touches the front float gear wire so the balance would come out without adding any more weight. Mine weighs in at 15.9oz. Phx 10 2-HS-55 servoes. 9X5EP GWS prop. Takeoffs are quick; I put in a bit more positive wing incidence. Landings are really neat; one must fly only on calm days for the best chance had normal flying. The additional power is helpful on takeoff as any chance of water looping or tip stalling by too early of a takeoff is helped by more speed.

Bill

Eggvoel
08-22-2005, 05:22 PM
Thanks Bill, I think I have the floats tight now with another layer of epoxy on the seam. I think part of my problem was trying to do the whole float at once and the epoxy migrated south too much so I just did one side at a time and kept it level. Seems to be quite difficult to get a good cut line on the plastic, basically a pain in the butt.
I've seen on some other sites on the Estarter that people were making a water rudder connected to the rudder. I'll try without that first.
I'll stick with the stock power system and see what happens when I get brave enough to try. Thanks. Larry

fallsflyer
08-25-2005, 11:59 PM
The Twin Otter pictured is a customer of ours. Thats the nice thing about the Twin Otter looks good on floats or on wheels.

The Beaver pictured will get a set of floats on it as well.


Thanks,

Mark,

I look forward to seeing the Beaver on floats. I've made a set of Herr floats designed for their Cub and Cloud Ranger and it looks like the step placement, etc. will work well on this plane. I'll be watching Skunkworks for the updates.

obiewanben
08-31-2005, 03:03 AM
Quick Tips: Put the CG 1/2 to 1" behind the step, depending on the size of the plane. Use liquid tape painted on the ESC to seal it. I have fried my share of ESCs. Wrap the receiver in Saran wrap as well as possible and drain any water out as soon as possible. Pull the servo plugs out and dry. I have dunked both brushed and brushless motors and after drying and oiling never had a problem. Some rc guys break the brushed motors in using a glass of water. Someone suggested not using the plastic bottom portion of the GWS floats, just use the foam. Saves weight and leaking. Am going to try it on my next plane.

Twmaster
08-31-2005, 03:28 AM
Here's a simple seaplane called 'Watter' by Tom Hunt.

http://www.modelairtech.com/images/watter.jpg

The thing is built almost entirely of sticks. More details on this page:

http://www.modelairtech.com/stik.html

I have a set of plans for it and will be building one.

--
Mike N

Dr.Fiero
08-31-2005, 04:36 AM
Some rc guys break the brushed motors in using a glass of water.

I've both done, and not done this on a like pair of motors (GWS 350's) and found that the one I broke in under water pulls harder, and doesn't seem to "stutter" in flight.

cessnajfb
09-01-2005, 02:19 PM
I finally got my Cessna 182 flying with floats. The final solutions were moving the floats 15mm forward, mixing 50% rudder with the ailerons, and adding vertical stabilizers to the floats. The vertical stabilizers made an incredible difference.
Frank

bz1mcr
09-01-2005, 03:25 PM
I finally got my Cessna 182 flying with floats. The final solutions were moving the floats 15mm forward, mixing 50% rudder with the ailerons, and adding vertical stabilizers to the floats. The vertical stabilizers made an incredible difference.
Frank
What flight charteristics did adding the vertical stabilizers make? I have never seen that before?

cessnajfb
09-01-2005, 03:52 PM
Don,
Before any changes, the plane wouldn't stabilize horizonally in flight - I think that was mainly the cg problem and also was very unresponsive to aileron and rudder commands - I think the vertical stabilizers cured this. The plane is now very responsive to all commands - best landings of any kind I've ever made. Art Schmitz suggested the vertical stabilizers:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405015

Frank

Grampaw
09-10-2005, 05:46 AM
Zappedalaskan...in your post above about the the Goldberg Ann. Cub you're willing to give a way that is missing some parts. One missing part you listed caught my eye and I'm curious about it. You said that one of the missing parts was the "dummy radial head." I may be wrong, but it just might be that the radial head isn't really missing because Cubs didn't have radial engines...unless of course it was a "bashed" version of a modified Bush job. Comment? GP

zappedalaskan
09-10-2005, 11:42 AM
Zappedalaskan...in your post above about the the Goldberg Ann. Cub you're willing to give a way that is missing some parts. One missing part you listed caught my eye and I'm curious about it. You said that one of the missing parts was the "dummy radial head." I may be wrong, but it just might be that the radial head isn't really missing because Cubs didn't have radial engines...unless of course it was a "bashed" version of a modified Bush job. Comment? GP
Hi GP
You are right. I meant cylinder heads when I wrote radial. I am working on a Radial i/c powered plane that is sitting right here next to me. I just meant the little plastic cylinder heads that you glue on the cowling. Sorry for any mix up this may have caused. Thank you kindly and have a great day.
Jay

donjiskra
09-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Photo image herewith:

willyb
09-11-2005, 03:10 PM
Don,

The image did not come through on the post, at least I cannot find it.

On your floats do you have any additional bracing between the front and back spreaders? It seems like there is quite a bit of flexiblity on the floats just using the two spreader bars. My front spreader has just the single attachment to the nose gear blocks and my rear has an aluminum spreader that is very similar to the origainal yellow kit gear in size. I would like to keep the wheels on the original.

Bill

donjiskra
09-11-2005, 07:06 PM
Hey Willy,
Here's a photo that may help.
I followed the instructions in Bob Aberle's review, a tremendous help to work by:
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=56&index=0
At the rear I simply used the original Bonnie gear.
Best wishes,
Don

> Don,
> On your floats do you have any additional bracing between the front and back spreaders? It seems like there is quite a bit of flexiblity on the floats just using the two spreader bars. My front spreader has just the single attachment to the nose gear blocks and my rear has an aluminum spreader that is very similar to the origainal yellow kit gear in size. I would like to keep the wheels on the original.
>
> Bill

Dereck
10-25-2005, 08:04 PM
This lot came as a surprise!

This one needs including - what is now the "Pondside", originally the Puddlemaster. Scott Hartman design, originally from Ace RC in a die-cut, now from Hobby Hangar down in Florida, in laser cut form. Basically the same design, but the new itteration has a more refined wing structure.

I've had three - two PM and one PS. All were built in a hurry, all flew "right off the board" Power between a Graupner S600, 7 x 5 or 6 and 6, 7 and 8 cells and an Astor 035 cobalt on a 7 x 5 and seven aged SCRC 1700. The ROW of the latter was blistering compared to the cheap-O option of my earlier models.

I even did a website on the type! www.weekendpilot.homestead.com I haven't touched it since they started demanding money in 2001, and all the links are now non-existent, but there's some shots of various folks' renditions of this classic design.

Given that 'all' it offers are superb water handling and the ability to shoot splash and goes all pack long, the model makes an ideal elelctric waterplane intro model. While you could go LiPo / Brushless, it's hardly worth it, and I'm not sure that LiPos are suited to dunking ... Adding a lot more power doesn't make it do anything any better, while its aerobatics are somewhat limited - it will loop and do a sloppy stall turn, and that's about all she wrote. The newer kits have an aileron option, which may help aerobatic prowess, but I found the rudder / ele controls ideal for cruising around a splash and go pattern.

regards
Dereck

willyb
10-26-2005, 12:41 PM
Hi Dereck,

Thanks for the information on the Puddlemaster/Pondside. I built a gas powered Ace Puddlemaster a number of years ago, and you are right, it was and still is a fun airplane with limited tricks it can do. My flying buddy had built an electric one early on using the old Astro motors. His was heavier and more borderline in those days because of the weight and ineffieciencies we had back then with batteries and all. The last year or so I have thought about converting mine over to electric; I probably will do that this next year as the gas is such a mess all the time, particularily if you are on a pontoon boat,etc. I'm not real sure about ailerons on that plane either as it is a nice flyer the way it is with 3 channels. I suppose one could get some barrel rolls in but there are better planes if one wants to that. (My Bonnie ARF, like Don has well described above, is a nice step up if one wants some basic acrobatic capability.)

Bill

donjiskra
10-26-2005, 01:44 PM
I was at a DePue, IL Float Fly this year and was very impressed with a Pudllemaster that had been converted to twin SP400's. I flew great!!!
The owner said it was no longer availble aand he built it from an old plan.
The twin conversion was neat and simple and made it a great flyer.
He got the idea for making it a twin from someone else who had done it previously. ROW's and aerobatic performance was superb!!
Here's a link to the PM TWIN:

http://www.isd.net/mmmpc535/Hobby/Snomaster.htm

lindart aviation
11-25-2005, 05:05 AM
The step works well when it is 1/4 to 3/8 " BEHIND the C.G.
The wing to float incidence generally needs to be + 3 to 5 degrees.HTH.

farmer Brown
05-15-2009, 08:07 PM
hello

i am new to flying and brand new to flying off of water, i am trying to put floats on my super cub and am thinking of making them from scrap, is there any tips i should know about, or anything that could make this process easiar?

Taylor

Larry3215
05-16-2009, 05:23 AM
Hi Taylor,

Here are some links that will get you started on everything you need to know from float design, to placement to flying tips.

http://www.smilesandwags.com/Floats.html

http://www.stenulson.net/rcflight/waterfly.htm

http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/floats/index.htm

http://flyinglindy.homestead.com/skisandfloats.html

Look at post #3 in this thread for my recommendation on water proofing your electronics - a must do if your flying off water.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26120


Good luck!