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Schlepp
01-23-2006, 04:08 AM
I have an RTF Easystar that I want to try a 11.1 3 cell lipo in, will this kill it or just shorten the life of the motor?

TManiaci
01-23-2006, 08:15 AM
I have an RTF Easystar that I want to try a 11.1 3 cell lipo in, will this kill it or just shorten the life of the motor?

Not enough information. I tried to find the ESC that the EasyStar has in it, can't find it. That's the key. If the ESC can run Lipo, then you're golden. Google the part number or whatever markings are on it, and you will find your answer.

Twmaster
01-24-2006, 03:28 AM
IIRC the ESC that comes with the ES is not Lipo aware. At least the two that are flying with our flying cabal are not. Perhaps newer ones are?

flyboy1945
01-24-2006, 01:42 PM
The motor is 6volt and it will burn out quickly,I used a 7.4 2000mAH Lipo with good results.Twmaster is right the esc is not Lipo aware so be carefull not to run the battery to low.I have used them but you must time your flights so as not to run the batt below 3volts per cell.:)
John

RonJ
01-24-2006, 05:19 PM
A very successful upgrade to your Easy Star is to replace the stock 400 motor and ESC with a Tornado 400F (Dymond Modelsports $69 package). I use 8-1100 nimh's but one of the guys in our club uses 3S-2300 lipos and can take off from the grass. This motor likes a 6 X 4 APC prop which is perfect for the restricted prop clearance of the EZ Star.

No problem getting your bird back on really windy days with this set up.

RonJ

Jeremy Z
01-28-2006, 12:45 AM
I agree with RonJ.

But if you're not ready to go brushless yet, a good upgrade would be a 2S LiPo to replace the NiMH pack. The lost weight will give you a better power:weight ratio. You'll have the same power, with less weight, and it will SEEM more powerful.

I'm thinking of getting an EasyStar myself, but I don't think it would stay brushed for long.

flyboy1945
01-28-2006, 11:27 AM
Jeremy
The EazyStar is also a great winter plane,with a few upgrades it can fly in high winds,snow even rain(that started while I was flying) I keep mine in the car and fly when ever I get near a flying field.
My last flight the wind was up to 28 miles an hour :eek: and the ez is still in one peice.I have been flying for 40 years and I get real kick out of this foam thing.
John:D
PS: my EZ is not stock:rolleyes:

Twmaster
01-28-2006, 02:57 PM
I agree with RonJ.

But if you're not ready to go brushless yet, a good upgrade would be a 2S LiPo to replace the NiMH pack. The lost weight will give you a better power:weight ratio. You'll have the same power, with less weight, and it will SEEM more powerful.

I'm thinking of getting an EasyStar myself, but I don't think it would stay brushed for long.

Not so. The ES likes volts. Neither of the ones flying in our group will fly worth a sack of beans on less than 7 cells. Weight is not the issue here. Volts is. The ES is a direct drive SP400 and it wants volts. The small weight savings by going to a 7.4V lipo pack is not offset by the lower RPM of the motor due to less battery volts.

Jeremy Z
01-29-2006, 08:38 AM
Not so. The ES likes volts. Neither of the ones flying in our group will fly worth a sack of beans on less than 7 cells. Weight is not the issue here. Volts is. The ES is a direct drive SP400 and it wants volts. The small weight savings by going to a 7.4V lipo pack is not offset by the lower RPM of the motor due to less battery volts.

What is really the issue is RPM. RPM is controlled by the voltage under load, not nominal (open circuit) voltage of the pack. NiMH battery packs tend to have their voltage pulled down under load a lot more than LiPos. In other words, LiPos are a stiffer current source.

Has anyone at your club tried a 2S LiPo in his EasyStar?

If you put about a 2 Ah 2S LiPo in your EasyStar, your duration would double and your load voltage would be 7.4V, consistently, until it starts to die off at the very end. The weight would be about the same, maybe a little lighter.

Comparing a 7.2 V 6 cell NiMH pack to a 7.4 V 2S LiPo is not comparing apples to apples. Even though the nominal voltages are the same, the voltage under load is always going to be higher with the LiPo. (assuming similar mAh ratings) A 7 cell (8.4V) NiMH is a closer comparison to the 2S LiPo (7.4V)

On my TwinStar II, the difference is even more dramatic. The battery pack is an 8 cell, 3600 mAh NiMH pack. The thing weighs 19.1 oz.! That is 1/3 the weight of the plane! If I went to a 3200 mAh 2S LiPo, the weight savings would be so huge, it would easily offset the slightly lower load voltage. This is especially true since the TSII doesn't have much thrust, instead going for the high pitch speed of the direct -drive prop. (just like the EasyStar) I would probably get about the same flight times, despite the loss of 400 mAh of battery capacity.

flyboy1945
01-29-2006, 12:45 PM
There are 5 people in our club using the 7.4 2000mAh lipo batterys, they are a good cheap upgrade and the ez's fly very well on them.And per the original post will not burn out the motor.

Schlepp
01-29-2006, 01:32 PM
My original question was about using a 3 cell 11.1 volt lipo, not a 2 cell. I still want to know, yes or no. The RTF uses a Multicont x-08 esc. Search it on Tower hobbies and give me your opinion as if I'll be able to get away with the 3 cell lipo. Thanks guys

aeropal
01-29-2006, 06:32 PM
.

Schlepp
01-29-2006, 06:48 PM
Aeropal, I already saw the specsheet, but thanks for posting the link. I am looking for opinions from others if they think I'll be able to get away with a 3 cell lipo, what do you think?

flyboy1945
01-29-2006, 06:54 PM
no

aeropal
01-29-2006, 06:56 PM
.

Schlepp
01-29-2006, 08:01 PM
As I read the manual the esc will take up to 12 volts, so, if I don't overamp it it should be fine. I will have to monitor the voltage myself to protect the battery but the esc should be okay. The motor may lead a hard life but they are cheap. Overall I think it will work and as I got this thing for cheap it'll be worth the try and will let you all know how it works. When the elctronics need replaced it's gonna be brushless anyway, I just didn't want to be trailing smoke every flight:)

flyboy1945
01-29-2006, 08:39 PM
The motors in the EZ's with a 11.1 will sometime get 5 or 10 flights, some time they don't make even one flight,I burned out about 5 of them before I changed batterys, if you keep off the throttle the motor will last longer.
Have fun :D
John

azkeith
01-31-2006, 05:18 AM
As I read the manual the esc will take up to 12 volts, so, if I don't overamp it it should be fine. I will have to monitor the voltage myself to protect the battery but the esc should be okay. The motor may lead a hard life but they are cheap. Overall I think it will work and as I got this thing for cheap it'll be worth the try and will let you all know how it works. When the elctronics need replaced it's gonna be brushless anyway, I just didn't want to be trailing smoke every flight:)

have flown mine on a 3 cell 1800, 3 flights ALL AT REDUCED throttle. I time them so as not to run down lipos past 3V/cell.. Yes the ESC gets pretty warm, but have not burned one up. Maybe I am just lucky so far.
Keith

Jeremy Z
01-31-2006, 06:30 AM
...and I'm not talking about flap/spoiler mixing either. :(

I checked with Jurgen, and he verified that you are right Twmaster. The voltage under load will be higher with a decent quality 7 cell pack. (Jurgen cited a 7 cell GP1100 pack, which may be a little bigger than you're flying)

He went on to say that the ultimate setup in his opinion was the stock motor with a Kokam 2S 4.2 Ah LiPo. Sounds like pure duration to me.

I may yet get an EasyStar. I haven't decided if I should get an EasyStar or go pure glider with an EasyGlider Electric. Are there any cons to an EasyGlider Electric that anyone can think of?

Poof, Landed!
05-24-2006, 12:52 PM
While your Esc may take up to 12 volts, your stock 400 6 volt motor doesn't like 12 volts. Sure you can work at a reduced throttle as others have said but I'd rather have a wider range of throttle control w/o worrying about the temperature of my esc or how many flights my motor will last. Just imagine having to cut the motor out when it or the esc goes south. I had thought about going to a 480 and using a 3 cell lipo but would use a seperate esc rated at about 20-25 amps and using higher filter capacitor values. But that's my thoughts. I've been an ET for awhile and hate the smell of burnt coils, power transisters, and IC's. Besides, there's enough room for a 480 if your esc is in the fuselage and you use a little creative venting. Have fun, not smoke. Poof!(by experience too):o

RonJ
05-25-2006, 10:02 PM
I have had excellent results with this motor/esc combination from Dymond.

TORNADO 400F Combo (http://www.rc-dymond.com/index.php?productID=281)
http://www.rc-dymond.com/products_pictures/100Tornado400F.jpg more info... (http://www.rc-dymond.com/index.php?productID=281)Price: $69.00 TORNADO 400F Combo with 25 A brushless ESC

I order their "X" mount and mount it to a plywood ring I make and attach to the EZ. We have about a dozen of these set ups here in our area now.
Batteries are 8 cell GP-1100 nimh's from Cheap Battery Packs.

Also have an Easy Glider with this motor and a 4:1 planetary
gear set up. Swings a `12x6 folder. Nice combination. I prop these motors for about 18 amps and now have 4 0f them.

Jeremy-no "cons" on the EZ Glider. Very nice flyer. Have been using 10-GP-1100's on the EZ-G.

RonJ

LannyG
05-28-2006, 12:12 AM
I have had excellent results with this motor/esc combination from Dymond.

TORNADO 400F Combo (http://www.rc-dymond.com/index.php?productID=281)
http://www.rc-dymond.com/products_pictures/100Tornado400F.jpg more info... (http://www.rc-dymond.com/index.php?productID=281)Price: $69.00 TORNADO 400F Combo with 25 A brushless ESC

I order their "X" mount and mount it to a plywood ring I make and attach to the EZ. We have about a dozen of these set ups here in our area now.
Batteries are 8 cell GP-1100 nimh's from Cheap Battery Packs.

Also have an Easy Glider with this motor and a 4:1 planetary
gear set up. Swings a `12x6 folder. Nice combination. I prop these motors for about 18 amps and now have 4 0f them.

Jeremy-no "cons" on the EZ Glider. Very nice flyer. Have been using 10-GP-1100's on the EZ-G.

RonJ
Ron
Could you tell us more about how to mount that motor? Is the plywood on the back of the hole where the old motor was and extends out to the rear more??? With what do you attach it? What kind of glue do you use. If you can, a photo might help. It sounds like a setup I might like.
Thanks,
LannyG

RonJ
05-28-2006, 12:36 PM
LannyG,

The plywood ring is glued to the back of the motor naucell (sp?). I used medium CA and accellerator. The motor is then mounted to the "X" mount using the inner holes and then the motor wires come out the rear (towards the prop) and then over the top of the naucell toward the front of the plane. I left the ESC outside and taped it to the top of the fuse above the wing.. The motor & mount are then screwed to the plywood ring using the outer holes.

Will try to get a photo posted.

RonJ

RonJ
05-28-2006, 12:46 PM
Will try to get photo attached.

From what I remember I go to "Advanced" then click on "manage attachments" and that should take me to my airplane photos. Lately when I try this all I get is a "dunk!!!" sound and nothing happens.

trying again.

Nope...get dunk sound again. Help

RonJ

max-nix
05-28-2006, 03:29 PM
It is working for me.:) Test pic attached.

LannyG
05-28-2006, 08:22 PM
LannyG,

The plywood ring is glued to the back of the motor naucell (sp?). I used medium CA and accellerator. The motor is then mounted to the "X" mount using the inner holes and then the motor wires come out the rear (towards the prop) and then over the top of the naucell toward the front of the plane. I left the ESC outside and taped it to the top of the fuse above the wing.. The motor & mount are then screwed to the plywood ring using the outer holes.

Will try to get a photo posted.

RonJ
I think I know what you mean. The plywood is kind of a lid over the hole in the nacelle that is glued around the rim? I'm just trying a photo addition test too.

LannyG
05-28-2006, 08:26 PM
Will try to get photo attached.

From what I remember I go to "Advanced" then click on "manage attachments" and that should take me to my airplane photos. Lately when I try this all I get is a "dunk!!!" sound and nothing happens.

trying again.

Nope...get dunk sound again. Help

RonJ
I didn't go to "advanced. I just use "reply", type in what I want and scroll down to the next box-"additional options", click "manage attachments". A new box opens, click a browse that goes to my computer's photos, click on one, then the open box, then the upload box. Does that help?

RonJ
05-29-2006, 02:06 PM
Trying to post pic.

It indicates "a pop up window was blocked"

Looks like I have to find out how to modify the pop up blocker to allow me to get photos posted. I am not to swift on this computer stuff.

RonJ

LannyG
05-29-2006, 02:45 PM
Trying to post pic.

It indicates "a pop up window was blocked"

Looks like I have to find out how to modify the pop up blocker to allow me to get photos posted. I am not to swift on this computer stuff.

RonJ
That's OK. Its better to be swift on the airplane stuff.
I'd like to try that brushless setup.

RonJ
05-29-2006, 03:19 PM
Attempt #3 to post photo.

Says to hold "control" key to allow pop up through.

Yeeee-Haaaa, GOT IT.

LannyG
05-29-2006, 09:32 PM
Attempt #3 to post photo.

Says to hold "control" key to allow pop up through.

Yeeee-Haaaa, GOT IT.

Thanks Ron!
Now I see. I was thinking the whole motor was hanging out the back of the nacelle. It fits right in there. Great! I'll save my pennies and try that.
LannyG

Eric_N57105
06-28-2006, 06:12 AM
I have had excellent results with this motor/esc combination from Dymond.

TORNADO 400F Combo (http://www.rc-dymond.com/index.php?productID=281)
http://www.rc-dymond.com/products_pictures/100Tornado400F.jpg more info... (http://www.rc-dymond.com/index.php?productID=281)Price: $69.00 TORNADO 400F Combo with 25 A brushless ESC

I order their "X" mount and mount it to a plywood ring I make and attach to the EZ. We have about a dozen of these set ups here in our area now.
Batteries are 8 cell GP-1100 nimh's from Cheap Battery Packs.

Also have an Easy Glider with this motor and a 4:1 planetary
gear set up. Swings a `12x6 folder. Nice combination. I prop these motors for about 18 amps and now have 4 0f them.

Jeremy-no "cons" on the EZ Glider. Very nice flyer. Have been using 10-GP-1100's on the EZ-G.

RonJ
I agree that this is a great setup on my EasyStar. The motor is very strong making vertical climbs, outside loops and anything else in my limited repertoire possible.

But I just discovered something really disturbing about this motor. When mounted in the EasyStar as a pusher, the prop thrust actually pushes the can FORWARD leaving almost a 1/4" gap between the can and stationary mount at full throttle! I noticed this when measuring current draw with different props.

There is no c-ring or any other kind of "keeper" to prevent this. You can pull the motor apart by hand with no tools. They depend only on the magnets to hold it together.

This design is no problem in a tractor since prop thrust pulls the can tighter to the stationary part, but with a pusher, it is pulling the can away from the stationary part. The worst part is that the portion of the motor shaft that rotates between the bearings is 3mm, but the part where the prop connects is cut down to 2.3mm. So when the can is pushed off, the remaining shaft in the rear bearing is too small and flops around causing vibration and eventual damage.

I'll get some photos tomorrow, but I was a little nervous photographing the motor with my face and camera in line with the prop at full throttle.

Himax motors have a small collar, like a wheel collar, on the shaft to prevent this. A small washer lays against the inner race of the bearing and the collar rests against the small washer. I haven't tried that yet, but I will before the weekend.

There are a lot of these motors out there. I don't know how many of them are used in pusher designs. Has anyone else noticed this? Run the motor up to full throttle and watch the can.

One other facet of this I'm investigating. A friend gave me two blown $19 400XT motors from Hobby Lobby to play with. When I took one of them apart, I was struck by the fact that it appears to be IDENTICAL in every way to the Tornado 400F, except in one crucial way. The shaft is 3mm throughout its length and it has a small c-ring keeper to hold the motor together. However, the way it is set up, you would have to mount it on an Easy Star with the can towards the rear of the ship outside the nacelle. To mount it the more conventional way, you would have to remove the shaft and turn it around. Doing that would give you a keeper right where it belongs to keep the motor together as a pusher. I haven't checked windings yet to see if they are identical, but mechanically the cheap 400XT seems to be a stronger design.

Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

Eric_N57105
06-28-2006, 06:16 AM
I should mention that I use a stick mount as recommended by Dymond, not the radial mount that RonJ uses. To embed it, I cut off the nacelle, so my motor is hanging out in the breeze. When I ran it up to full throttle, I could see the gap. But with the motor buried in the nacelle, nobody is going to notice it.

Photos and a couple of potential fixes tomorrow.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

RonJ
06-29-2006, 02:04 PM
Yes, the 400F does not have a keeper clip but have had no trouble with running this motor in my EZ Star or Twin Jet. We have 11 EZ's in our club to date and most have the 400F set up. No problems.

As I recall,on the 400XT a different part of the motor rotates.

Also have one in an Easy Glider, but that one has a planetary gear in it. Swings a 12x6 folder nicely.

RonJ

Buckaroo
10-16-2006, 08:09 AM
Will these cheap 3300mAh NIMH Batteries on ebay work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-RC-7-2V-3300mAh-NiMH-Battery-For-Tamiya-E-Maxx-7-2_W0QQitemZ300038462315QQihZ020QQcategoryZ44022QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There 7.2 volts.

RonJ
10-16-2006, 04:16 PM
Buckaroo,

They will probably be to large to fit into the EZ Star. I use 8-1100 mah nimh's from www.cheapbatterypacks.com (http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com).

They have pretty good deals on very good batteries.

RonJ

Calcomputers
01-20-2007, 02:37 PM
I purchased the Tornado 400F combo and want to put it in my EZ Star. Looking at your pictures on the forum I see you have your ESC on top of the fuse. Did you extend the wires on the motor side of the ESC or the battery side? How much can these wires be extended without any problems? Thanks

tann200
01-23-2007, 12:50 PM
i have ran my easystar from 2s 1050mah pack and it runs well only needs a bit weight in the nose for balancing