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Larry3215
12-18-2008, 08:11 PM
I am either crazy, senile or I have a "serious condition" of some sort. Thats what my wife says anyway :)

Im part way thru the build on a Phase3 F16, Im part way thru a build of a new giant scale foamie Yak (for the contest), Im part way thru the build on a giant scale foamie Extra/Edge thing, I havent finished repairing the nose gear on my FlyFly F86 and my Mega Capricorn still needs a paint job.

You would think I had more than enough RC related projects to keep me busy over the winter!

Here is the problem. I saw a new F-16 by RC Lander that really caught my eye. Then I saw they had an F9F that was pretty cool too. Then I saw they had a Rafale twin EDF! I wanted ALL of them but cant really afford any of them at the moment. While I was reading up on them, all trying to decide on which one to get (Come on honey, its a really cool airplane and they all have retracts! We dont realy NEED that new carpet just yet do we?).

Then when I had it almost figured out, (the F16 is winning by a hair) I saw a post by TheDon about a twin SR-71 - with retracts!!!! And its cheep!!! (hear that honey?)

While I was going nuts over all those choices - and realizing I couldnt really afford to do any of them at the moment I ran across a thread started by Jetset44 (Steve Schumate of Park Jets fame) about a new sea plane of his called the Polaris.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=922465&pp=100

The Polaris based on the old Laddie Mikulasco (sp?) North Star which I built waaaaaaaay back in the old days. Great model!

I also built a much smaller version a year or 2 ago I called the Sparkle.

Recently Ive been into much larger giant scale foamies and it occured to me that this plan form would lend itself well to a giant scale version.

On top of that, I have most everything Id need to get it in the air just laying around ready to go.

So... thats what Im going to do next. I'll wait to save up some more $$ and see more flight reviews of those jets down the road. All the other stuff is going back in the boxes and up in the rafters and Im cleaning off my bench! Well... Im going to clean off a few things anyway ;)

We are snowed in at the moment so I'll start cutting foam as soon as I scale off some rough sketches.

It will end up aprox 80" long with about a 60" span with removable wings. Power will be 6S A123 pack driving a Mega 22/30/3 direct drive into a 12" prop. Should be in the 900-1000 watt range and pretty fast top speed. All up weight should end up in the 5 to 7 pound range but I almost always come in heavier than my predictions :)

One other plus point on this one is it will be able to fly off snow along with my Capricorns and none of the jets will do that!

For those who cant wait - here is a video of its second flight!

nVwl1htpJbQ

Here is the first serious water flight of the big Polaris.

spWHWq5qOV8

lee
12-19-2008, 12:59 PM
I am either crazy, senile or I have a "serious condition" of some sort. That's what my wife says anyway :)

My wife used to say RC is cheaper than therapy but I think she is reconsidering.:D

I have been following the Polaris thread too and I also owned a Northstar and several variations. I like your idea of another "Larry Style variation".

Lee

Larry3215
12-19-2008, 10:53 PM
Thanks Lee :) My wife is starting to get wise to this too. I had a lipo fire in my shop a couple of years ago and the insurance check for the "hobby items" was, unfortunately, made out to both of us. She had a bit of a fit when she saw how much the check was for! I dont think she believes me any more when I say "But honey, its just few rechargeable batteries!" ;)

This should be a fairly easy build. The only area Im concerned with is the vertical tail section. That will take some extra reinforcement and thought to be sure the motor is getting enough support. The 1/2" Blue foam Im going to use doesnt do well with concentrated loads like motor mounts and landing gear supports. Im sure I'll be using some extra ply, carbon tubes and fiberglass in that area.

Larry3215
12-23-2008, 01:38 AM
I've made some progress. I have the main wing cut out and one of the two main spars installed.

I'll leave ther wing all one piece untill the spars are all set and the glue is dry. Then I'll cut off the outer removable sections. That way Im sure things will line up properly when its time to put them back on :)

I used a trick Lee showed off in his SnowBall build thread to cut the grooves in the 1/2" foam where the aluminum tube sections of the spars to get glued in. I used a wheel collar on the end of my soldering iron to set the depth then ran the iron down the side of a long straight edge to cut the groves. Works great! Thanks Lee!

The aluminum arrow shafts get glued into the foam wing and the carbon tubes are a snug fir inside of them. The carbon tubes are removed when the wing is taken apart. Its the same system Ive been using on my other giant scale 1/2" blue foam Yak - BUFY. Its held up really well and is easy to do if you want removable wings - an important feature of any large bird unless you have a big enough trailer for hauling them around in one piece - which I dont!

Im also going to add carbon tubes along the leading edge and some small locator pins at the front edge of the wing.

Larry3215
12-23-2008, 01:46 AM
By the way - I get the aluminum and carbon shafts at my local sporting good store. If you look around a bit you will find some carbon shafts that are a snug fit inside the larger aluminum shafts. I got lucky and found some cheep carbon arrow shafts - $0.99 each. The only aluminum shafts I could find to fit were more expensive - Easton Black Stalkers 2216 - $33.00 for a box of 12ea. If you look online you can get the Eastons cheeper.

Larry3215
12-29-2008, 05:50 AM
The removable wings are done other than cutting out and hinging the ailerons and Ive started on the fuse. I have all the main parts cut out and the bottom glued on the fuse and a layer of glass applied to the bottom.

I am actually using 2 layers of .75 oz cloth on the bottom only and applying it with Johnsons Pledge floor polish.

I have been using it for a while now and I like it better than WBPU for the most part. It drys faster, smells a LOT better and seems lighter as well. So far I dont see any down side at all.

This application will be a true test of its water resistance though. Ive used it on other planes that have been in the rain for short times but never where it would sit in the water for extended periods. I should probably have done a test piece first.... :)

Larry3215
12-30-2008, 02:10 AM
Grrrrrrrr! I should have done the water test before I put the stuff on!

I made up a sample piece late last night and stuck it in some water a while ago.

After about 2 hours in warm water the finish was very soft.

The question is what to do now???

I think I'll do another test and wait longer for the finish to dry. It might need a couple of days to set up all the way. Its been cold here lately so I can hope! If that doesnt work I will have to either take it all off or try coating it with finishing resin :(

Larry3215
12-30-2008, 06:02 AM
I changed my mind. I peeled off the glass, sanded it down and redid it with epoxy finishing resin. Im going to be running this thing mostly off a paved runway but it will spend a lot of time in the water too (I hope) so it needed to be done right.

RickAvery
12-30-2008, 02:34 PM
Wow Larry, 60" WS & 80" length:eek: Very cool! I like BIG foamy jets & I've been wanting to build a floaty for some time now. I saw the Shumate post you referred to but it didn't click at the time to scale it up. Just what I need. Something else to build:D I thing I'd go for a size in the 42" WS X 56" length (using your ratio) & make the wing fixed. Hmmmmmm:rolleyes: Good luck with your build. I'll be watching. Blue skies!
Rick

Larry3215
12-31-2008, 06:47 AM
Thanks Rick :)

Once you get bitten by the 'BIG" bug you cant give it up :D The little planes still have a place in my hanger and they are fun to fly - sometimes - BUT my real joy these days is flying the big ones and especially the big foamies.

The size you are thinking would be a nice size too. Big enough to be fun but a lot easier to transport and faster to build and you can use a much smaller power system.

The removable wings are kind of a pain to do. Not really difficult but they take extra time and you need to keep things lined up fairly well or they are difficult to get on/off with this multi-spar tube system Im using. Still, its worth it.

There is nothing gets attention at the field like showing up with a foamy thats bigger than any other plane at the field :D

larryross
01-01-2009, 07:41 PM
Hi Larry
I'm Larry too :D and you are not wrong about the "BIG" bug... I've been bitten and have several BIG builds going right now one of which is a 2X Polaris (I have pics posted on Steve's Polaris build thread on RCGoups). I will be watching this build as I was wondering how I was going to haul it to the field. I couldn't figure how to make the wing removable so I will be very interested seeing how you accomplish it. I too am using 1/2" foam for the main wing and some of the tail assembly, but I am using 1/4" Protection Board lll for as much as I can. I didn't want it to gain weight exponentially. My 8 foot wing 4 engine Puddle Monster (3x Puddle Twin) is what I am working on at the present time. I see we have some things on common including our name. :rolleyes::D I am glad I found you. ;):)

Regards Larry

Thanks Rick :)

Once you get bitten by the 'BIG" bug you cant give it up :D The little planes still have a place in my hanger and they are fun to fly - sometimes - BUT my real joy these days is flying the big ones and especially the big foamies.

The size you are thinking would be a nice size too. Big enough to be fun but a lot easier to transport and faster to build and you can use a much smaller power system.

The removable wings are kind of a pain to do. Not really difficult but they take extra time and you need to keep things lined up fairly well or they are difficult to get on/off with this multi-spar tube system Im using. Still, its worth it.

There is nothing gets attention at the field like showing up with a foamy thats bigger than any other plane at the field :D

Larry3215
01-01-2009, 09:49 PM
Hi Larry,

I am glad to meet another big bird junkie!

I'll post some more details on the removable wing system Im using a little later. In the mean time here is a link to my BUFY build where I used the same system. I also used the same hinging set up on BUFY.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29624

larryross
01-01-2009, 11:39 PM
Larry
Have you tried using Tite Bond ll or lll thinned 70 30 with water instead of WBPU? Makes a very tough skin and you can use brown paper or news paper instead of fiberglass. I sometimes use nylon (the non-stretchy kind) along with the Tite Bond makes a very strong skin for giant planes and the Dow blue isn't fragile any more.


Grrrrrrrr! I should have done the water test before I put the stuff on!

I made up a sample piece late last night and stuck it in some water a while ago.

After about 2 hours in warm water the finish was very soft.

The question is what to do now???

I think I'll do another test and wait longer for the finish to dry. It might need a couple of days to set up all the way. Its been cold here lately so I can hope! If that doesnt work I will have to either take it all off or try coating it with finishing resin :(

Larry3215
01-02-2009, 01:50 AM
Wow! Those are some nice monsters you've got there Larry! Very nice workmanship!

Here is a quick sketch of where Im doing the cuts on the removable wing. The red lines show the cuts, the green are the removable wing tubes and the front two guide pins and the blue are just carbon tubes along the leading edge.

Note that the rear portion of the cut is also the inner line for the ailerons. That drawing isnt to scale but it gives the idea. With the wings removed the elevator is the widest point on the plane at about 26-27".

I havent tried the tight bond yet. I wonder how well it would hold up under water though. I wanted to play it safe on this one. Its going to get some abuse running off a hard runway most of the time and there is always the chance of getting stuck way out in the lake for extended periods so the water resistance needs to be very hi and the strength needs to be there as well.

I do have some rip-stop nylon Ive been meaning to try out. That sounds like a good idea to me!

larryross
01-02-2009, 04:04 AM
I used the Tite Bond on the horizontal stabe of the 120% Polaris I am building. I first used Elmer's carpenters glue and glued news paper on both surfaces of the stabe. I let it dry for a day then applied a coat of Tite Bond ll over that. When dried the stabe made from 1/4" PBlll was as stiff as a board don't need stiffener of any kind. I soaked it in warm water and left it over night and it was just as stiff as it was when I started. Extended soaking will soften the glue though. When doing this you need to make sure there are no fibers of paper through your Tite Bond coating as the water can wick through that and reach the news paper and Elmer's underneath. I think if I would use Tite bond for all the layers that it would water proof the paper also Just an opinion not tested. The down side to this application is if you don't do both sides at the same time and allow them to dry at the same rate you will get some warping if one side dries before the other due to shrinkage.

larryross
01-02-2009, 04:34 AM
On high ware surfaces like the bottom of the fuse and wing tip floats, I use Tite Bond with Kevlar.




I havent tried the tight bond yet. I wonder how well it would hold up under water though. I wanted to play it safe on this one. Its going to get some abuse running off a hard runway most of the time and there is always the chance of getting stuck way out in the lake for extended periods so the water resistance needs to be very hi and the strength needs to be there as well.

I do have some rip-stop nylon Ive been meaning to try out. That sounds like a good idea to me!

Larry3215
01-02-2009, 05:10 AM
Im not going to glass or cover the main wing. I dont think it will need it for strength with 2 spars and the leading edge carbon.

I did glass the bottom of the fuse for wear and strength and I'll do the tip float bottoms as well. Ive ordered a roll of that super slick tape to use on the bottoms as skid material. That is some very nice stuff - but pricey!

The hinge technique Im using should make the horizontal stab stiff enough all on its own so I dont think it will need any extra glassing or spars either. The Polaris stab is smaller than the one on BUFY and that one was more than strong enough to stand up to heavy 3D loads and even a few crashes with no damage.

The only other piece Im worried about is the vertical stab and motor mount. Im still working out how to do that. Its going to have a lot of stress on it with motor weight, prop torque from 1000 watts or so and gyroscopic forces on top of that. At the moment Im leaning towards a 1/4" lite ply center piece with foam outer shell for the shape then glass over that - at least the lower section down to the wing. I'll probably use Steve's technique of a ply base plate to sit it on.

I really like the look of your motor cowling! I've been trying to think of something cool looking and I may copy you do something similar :)

The upper vertical fin should be fine as foam only or maybe have a short carbon tube recessed into it.

Larry3215
01-02-2009, 05:12 AM
So the Tight bond seems to be relatively water proof once dry? Im going to have to play with that and try it out.

Is that ratio 70% glue to 30% water?

Thanks for the tips Larry!

larryross
01-02-2009, 06:41 AM
You are welcome... hope it works for you.
The reason I am doing the main wing is to experiment with using the outer coating for stiffness instead of a lot of carbon or wood spars (exoskeleton like) As stiff as it has made the other parts I have tried it on well.....;) maybe. Like covering a foam core with balsa. No finger prints in the foam from handeling it either. I am using a wooden LE too.
Yes the ratio is 70% glue and 30% water.
Got to hit the sack.

Later
Larry

larryross
01-02-2009, 06:51 AM
Oh... when glassing the ware areas with Kevlar, I use the glue without thinning. Seems to work as well as Kevlar and resin, but takes longer to dry and takes a couple of additional coats of glue.

Larry

Larry3215
01-02-2009, 06:01 PM
You are welcome... hope it works for you.
The reason I am doing the main wing is to experiment with using the outer coating for stiffness instead of a lot of carbon or wood spars (exoskeleton like) As stiff as it has made the other parts I have tried it on well.....;) maybe. Like covering a foam core with balsa. No finger prints in the foam from handeling it either. I am using a wooden LE too.
Yes the ratio is 70% glue and 30% water.
Got to hit the sack.

Later
Larry

That should work well. The stressed skin wing technique has been around for ages and works very well. The 1/2" foam is thick enough to allow a good bit of strength Id think. It has the added advantage of providing torsional stiffness as well. One thing simple spars cannot generally do.

Its probably heavier than simple spars, but your right about the finger dents and hanger rash. This 1/2" foam is fragile.

larryross
01-02-2009, 11:58 PM
From your drawing above, I think I will try it to make my Polaris transportable. What are you doing about servo placement for the ailerons? My Polaris will be tail heavy so I need to place everything I can in the nose of the plane.

Larry3215
01-03-2009, 02:28 AM
Yeah, if your covering the whole wing that will add more weight behind the cg than in front of it. Im not too worried about CG on mine (fingers crossed!). My packs are relatively heavy and I am leaving room up front in case I need to get them all the way into the nose.

Im going to mount one servo on each removable wing panel laying flat on the top side. That doesnt look as good but water and servos dont do well together and they would get constantly soaked under neath.

Im on a real tight budget at the moment so Im using some cheep HS475HB servos I have. They are only about 80oz torque on 6 volts but that should be enough - I hope. Im also going to program the ailerons as elevons to increase pitch authority at low speeds. Should be interesting :)

I'll probably do a fairing to hide the exposed servos sinse they will be full sized servos. Ive tried burying them 1/2 way into the foam in the past, but water collects in the cut out and seeps into the servo no matter what you do to keep it out. As soon as a warm servo gets dunked into cold lake water it sucks it right in.

jetset44
01-04-2009, 05:21 AM
Looking good so far, Larry! I'll be eager to see how this turns out.

Steve

Larry3215
01-05-2009, 12:24 AM
Hi Steve,

Thanks for checking in and another thanks for a great plan - as usual!

I think this one is gonna be fun :D

I finally decided on how Im going to do the tail section/motor mount area. That has been a worry for me from day one.

This blue foam handles flight loads very well but it does NOT like concentrated point loads. I have the ply sub-structure all done. Im pretty sure its at least a little over kill but that's better than having the tail come off in flight :)

I'll build the outer shape of the vertical fin and cowling from Depron. The horizontal stab/elevator and rudder will be blue foam again.

Ive got the center fixed portion of the main wing glued in place and the tail/motor mount ply glued in place. I also did a trial fit of the wing to the fuse.

I need a bigger shop!

benovisoff
01-09-2009, 02:09 AM
Vey nice. Well done

Larry3215
01-09-2009, 06:46 AM
Thanks! :)

Larry3215
01-10-2009, 04:00 AM
Ive been making some progress. The motor mount tail section is turning out ok. Im wishing I had done it differently now but this is working out.

Im starting on the hinging and elevator section next.

Larry3215
01-11-2009, 01:23 AM
More progress....

I have the elevator section built and hinged but not mounted yet and I have the rudder cut and hinged in place.

I also recieved my roll of super slick tape and covered the bottom of the fuse where ever I expect contact. Its pretty nifty tape!

I decided to do a balance check. I said before that I wasnt too worried about balance, but every time I added something to the tail section I got a little more worried!

I just checked and it looks like I will be ok - barely! With the packs as far forward as they can go I should be just at the recommended CG.

Hopefully, by the time I get some colored tape and a little paint in it the CG wont shift toooo far back. There is a good chance Id want the cg back a little firther than where Steve recomends but its nice to have to wiggle room!

Larry3215
01-11-2009, 01:25 AM
By the way I decided to do the rudder and vertical fin parts from Depron so save on paint/finishing headaches. The elevator is still 1/2 blue foam but the writing is on the bottom so it wont be so bad to cover.

Next is to attach the elevator and top fin then work on the motor cowling.

Larry3215
01-13-2009, 06:58 PM
No new pics but Ive been making steady progress. I hope to have it ready to maiden this weekend!

By the way Larry - I tried some of that Tight Bond III to glass over the nose area and I like it! Its easy to do, no bad smells, drys reasonably fast and seems fairly hard and sands well.

larryross
01-14-2009, 03:52 AM
Glad you like using the Tite Bond. One thing you do need to do is make sure you completely cover the cloth. The finish is hard... I have a giant hydro foamy that takes off on black top and there is very little friction. It is kind of noisy until it gets in the air.

I'm still fighting warpage on my main wing, but I think I have it under control finally.

Do you have a target weight yet?

My motor, ESC, and servos are on the way. I'm using a Trungy TR 35-48-C With a 1210 prop. Should be more than enough power.

I have most of the parts in primer ready for paint. I'm using overhead projector transparency for hinges. Also putting my elevator servo in the front of the plane and running a control cable back up through the fin to the elevator. As slow as I am It will be weeks yet for mine.

No new pics but Ive been making steady progress. I hope to have it ready to maiden this weekend!

By the way Larry - I tried some of that Tight Bond III to glass over the nose area and I like it! Its easy to do, no bad smells, drys reasonably fast and seems fairly hard and sands well.

Larry3215
01-14-2009, 04:58 AM
No idea on final weight - havent weighed anything yet. Im hoping for 5 pounds but expecting closer to 7. Thats around where my other large foamies have come in and this is a similar amount of foam and hardware.

Im not nearly as worried about the final weight as I am about CG. It will fly fine even if it ends up at 8 pounds. These big birds dont seem to care as much about the over all weight.

CG on the other hand....

Im glueing up the aileron hinges at the moment. When thats done I'll weight all the bits and see what it adds up to.

Yours is going to end up looking much better than mine. I'll be flying 'in the rough' compared to your finish job! :)

larryross
01-14-2009, 06:43 AM
I expect mine to be around 6 lb +- 1lb. I too am worried about the CG, but as you said about the weight... I'll just put a bigger battery in the nose I think I have a big enough motor.:D

I have 3 planes that I am building right now that I want to finish to show what foamies can be. I was an auto body and fender man for 20 years so will apply some of my knowledge to a couple of planes then build more just to fly.:D

Larry3215
01-14-2009, 07:14 AM
LOL

Yours will make mine look like the "before" photos the cops take at the scene of the crash and yours will be the "after" photos when it rolls out of the body shop :D

CHELLIE
01-14-2009, 07:23 AM
Wow, Thats going to be a nice sea plane Larry, I dont know how i missed this thread ???? Keep up the great work, Chellie

PS I agree with your Wife :Q :D ;-)

Larry3215
01-14-2009, 07:56 AM
LOL Well, we have been married long enough now that I finally have figured out that she IS always right! ;)

I just weighed all the bits and pieces and Im currently at 6.34 pounds. That does not include the glue that will be needed to attach the rest of the tail section or any paint or covering material I decide to add.

I expect by the time Im all done I'll be very close to 7 pounds.

If I end up at 7 pounds then the wing loading will be in the neighborhood of 11 ounces/ft. I did a very rough calc on wing area and, including the fuse area, its around 1500 sq inches.

That puts it in the same cubic loading range as BUFY which is better than I expected. The wing loading is 1 ounce more than BUFY but the larger size makes the cubic loading work out to be the same.

It should be able to be flown in fairly tight spaces which is good. The pond I will use to test it out doesnt have a ton of excess flight space.

Im jazzed!

larryross
01-14-2009, 04:56 PM
Ha Ha Ha I'm sure yours isn't going to look that bad ( I've seen some of your builds) and I'm sure mine wont look that good (this being the first model I have finished), but thanks for the kind words. I don't plan on stopping at covering the wing so the CG shouldn't change, but the plane will get an ounce or two heaver. I'm thinking that if the CG goes too far back I'll just put a motorcycle battery up in the nose. :D

LOL

Yours will make mine look like the "before" photos the cops take at the scene of the crash and yours will be the "after" photos when it rolls out of the body shop :D

CHELLIE
01-15-2009, 05:18 AM
Ha Ha Ha I'm sure yours isn't going to look that bad ( I've seen some of your builds) and I'm sure mine wont look that good (this being the first model I have finished), but thanks for the kind words. I don't plan on stopping at covering the wing so the CG shouldn't change, but the plane will get an ounce or two heaver. I'm thinking that if the CG goes too far back I'll just put a motorcycle battery up in the nose. :D

Hi Larryross :ws: and Welcome to Wattflyers , lots of super nice people here, i like it here, and they even put up with me :p> Take care and have fun, Chellie

larryross
01-15-2009, 07:23 AM
Thanks Chellie

I have a daughter named Michelle and I have always called her Chellie. I don't get to see her much as she and her family lives 1000 miles away. I miss her and Grand kids a lot.

From what I have seen so far, I will have to agree about the nice people here. I think I have seen you on RCGroups a couple of times haven't I? I got here because I am building a 2X Polaris too and posting on RCGroups.

Later
Larry

CHELLIE
01-15-2009, 08:54 AM
Thanks Chellie

I have a daughter named Michelle and I have always called her Chellie. I don't get to see her much as she and her family lives 1000 miles away. I miss her and Grand kids a lot.

From what I have seen so far, I will have to agree about the nice people here. I think I have seen you on RCGroups a couple of times haven't I? I got here because I am building a 2X Polaris too and posting on RCGroups.

Later
Larry

Hi Larry :ws: Thats neet that you call your daughter Chellie , yes i am on RCG, RCU, Flying Giants and Wattflyers, but I like it here the best, thats just me, it seems more country to me :Q Good luck to you on your 2X Polaris, Larry 3215 is one of the best of the best in this hobby, I know I have learned a lot from him, Take care, Chellie

Larry3215
01-16-2009, 04:15 AM
Im getting close to being ready for the maiden!

Both wings are pretty much done. I have the tip floats on and glassed using the Tight Bond III.

Im liking that stuff a lot where strength is more important than weight. Its still lighter than using epoxy but and heavier than using WBPU but its much stronger than the WBPU I think. Easy to work with too. I also got the super slick tape on the tip floats and the servos and linkages all done.

All thats left to do on the wings is install the ply plates to run the screws thru to hold the wings on in flight.

I made up some fairings for the servos but Im not going to install them yet. I need to wait untill I know where the color is going on the wings so I can pre-finish them in a contrasting color.

I did a quick assembly of the wings to check balance again and it looks like Im still ok - barely.

One thing I realized is that THIS THING IS BIG!!! When you work on seperate pieces its hard to get a grasp for how large it really is. I shouldnt be surprized, the Mega grabbed me the same way when I finally got all the sections together. Its pretty cool though :D

Thius weekend is looking positive for good flying weather so I think its looking good!

Now all I have to do is finish up the tail sections and all the 643 other small details I havent done yet... :)

I wont add any color untill after the maiden.

Lets see if Chellie's trick works....

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90612&stc=1&d=1232079852

larryross
01-16-2009, 04:43 AM
Larry
That is looking good. What are you talking about... mine isn't going to look that good.:$ The maiden is this week end? Can't wait!:D No one else has build one this size that I know of. Do you know of any? Good luck.:cool:

larryross
01-16-2009, 04:56 AM
If you are going to use this where you need strength, use a bamboo skewer and poke many holes in the facing surfaces. Do not poke all the way through only about half way. This will give the glue extra bite and help strengthen the foam and make the bond deeper. instead of just a surface bond. Try it you'll like it.:D Great when using Gorilla glue and others too.

Larry3215
01-16-2009, 06:04 AM
Thats a great idea! I have one of those roller wheels used to poke holes in balsa that should work great for that too.

larryross
01-16-2009, 06:09 AM
I've been meaning to get one of those. It would be faster and easier than the skewer.;)

Larry3215
01-16-2009, 06:38 AM
Oh - I forgot to answer your other question - I dont know of anyone else building a 2x Polaris other than the two of us.

I think someone was doing one in the 120-125% range, but thats small time stuff ;)

Larry3215
01-16-2009, 07:23 AM
I've been meaning to get one of those. It would be faster and easier than the skewer.;)

Well, I just wasted 5 minutes looking for mine and ended up grabbing a bamboo skewer! :)

larryross
01-16-2009, 07:46 PM
Larry
I don't know If I mentioned it before, but I am building a 120% along side of my 200%. I'm not sure why I decided to do that. I guess I didn't think I had enough to do? :confused: :D. I just noticed, you aren't using a horizontal stab/elevator. What is that going to do for slow flying. In the original plans the elevator is in the direct prop blast won't this affect the flying characteristics especially at slow speeds and short take offs? :<: Have you seen my BE 103 Build here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=980653

I am building it 48" and if I like it, I will go for a 72" after I do a mega Cap.:ws::)

Larry3215
01-16-2009, 08:51 PM
Larry
I don't know If I mentioned it before, but I am building a 120% along side of my 200%. I'm not sure why I decided to do that. I guess I didn't think I had enough to do? :confused: :D. I just noticed, you aren't using a horizontal stab/elevator. What is that going to do for slow flying. In the original plans the elevator is in the direct prop blast won't this affect the flying characteristics especially at slow speeds and short take offs? :<: Have you seen my BE 103 Build here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=980653

I am building it 48" and if I like it, I will go for a 72" after I do a mega Cap.:ws::)

Yeah, I saw your 120% - I was just teasing you :)

I am going to have a horizontal tail on it - just havent glued it on yet. The fuse is so long its enough trouble moving it around my small shop as it is! Im not going to glue it on or the top rudder/fin until the last second.

That will happen tonight! Im still mentally debating on the final details of the top fin but Ive about worked that all out.

Im going to glue the fin and elevator on tonight and then do a final CG check. That will tell me where my battery hatch needs to go so I can cut it out.

That should be the last thing I must do before it can fly, so with a litle luck I will still make it by tomorrow. Sunday for sure!

Larry3215
01-16-2009, 09:00 PM
Just checked out your build on BE 103 - very cool! A twin pod setup! Nice looking plane :D

larryross
01-16-2009, 10:11 PM
Good... someone did build one without a HS, but he hasn't answered me on how it flys without it yet.

You didn't say if you saw my BE 103 build or not. Ooops I guess you did before I could post this.

I have a close friend whos name is Larry also and we would have fun when we're together and in a group of other people. :D:D

Larry3215
01-17-2009, 04:39 AM
Im sure it would fly fine at speed but I suspect the low speed handling would suffer some. I can see CG being more of an issue as well but not a big deal probably.

Larry3215
01-17-2009, 06:12 AM
Well, Ive only completed 587 of the 643 items left to do before I can do the maiden, so tomorrow is out. Sunday still looks good though.

I decided to add a little color to the vertical fin before gluing it in place so thats slowed me down some too. I bought several rolls of colored packing tape and Ive been experimenting with the best ways to apply it. Its not too bad to work with, but not 100% easy either. The black covers very well. The red covers ok but the white doesnt cover worth a darn.

The results are good enough for my purposes though as long as I remember to apply the colors in the correct order. Over al its still easier than covering or painting by a mile :)

I also found a liquid soap bottle that looks like it will make a decent cowling.

CHELLIE
01-17-2009, 06:16 AM
Hey Larry, paint it like this :D :D :D




http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=87139&d=1229631031
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90725&d=1232172588

It will be as nice or nicer :) :) :)

Larry3215
01-17-2009, 06:48 AM
I wont get it looking that nice, but thats the scheme Im going for :D

larryross
01-17-2009, 08:19 AM
I like the cowling, but you didn't spend as much time on yours as I did on mine and it's going to look better. :( Guess I'm going to have to start thinking plastic bottle.:D
Looking good Larry.

CHELLIE
01-17-2009, 09:19 AM
Hi Larry and Larry :D I thought you guys might enjoy this video, Take care, Chellie


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1eSaRCSD4k

Larry3215
01-17-2009, 05:10 PM
Thats was cool Chellie! I got a kick out of it :D

That cowl bottle was easy - but it took me several trips to the store and about $20 worth of dish soap, shampoo and hand cream to get one that works! There were several ladies at the store wondering why I was looking so closely at the bottoms of all the bottles in the beauty section for all that time! I got some strange looks! :D

CHELLIE
01-17-2009, 06:59 PM
Thats was cool Chellie! I got a kick out of it :D

That cowl bottle was easy - but it took me several trips to the store and about $20 worth of dish soap, shampoo and hand cream to get one that works! There were several ladies at the store wondering why I was looking so closely at the bottoms of all the bottles in the beauty section for all that time! I got some strange looks! :D

Its Funny what we will do for our Hobby Huh :D :D :D even dive into dumpsters :Q Take care, Chellie

CHELLIE
01-17-2009, 07:01 PM
I found some info on Cowl Construction, hope it helps, Chellie


Maybe this info might help, make a pattern cowel from balsa, then vacuum form, hope that helps, Chellie

http://img.youtube.com/vi/hGBRiYhxRTM/default.jpg
Vacuum Forming with your Kitchen Oven and Vacuum Cleaner (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41549#vid-2200d935)


http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...hlight=vaccume (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22480&highlight=vaccume)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make...-plastic-vacu/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-good%2c-cheap%2c-upgradeable-sheet-plastic-vacu/)

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vacuum+forming+with+your+kitc hen+oven&search_type=&aq=f)

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/page4f.htm

http://www.cstsales.com/tutorials/fiberglass_mold.pdf

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=1379325 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1379325)



http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3209607/tm.htm

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/page4g.htm

Larry3215
01-18-2009, 02:46 AM
LOL Thats some cool stuff you found there Chellie! I am waaaay to lazy to go to that much work though.

If I cant find an old bottle or jug or soda can or steal one from another plane then too bad. I just do without or do something ugly :D

larryross
01-18-2009, 02:57 AM
Ha ha ha Funny video... thanks for sharing it Chellie.:Q I haven't looked at the links yet.

Larry3215
01-18-2009, 03:19 AM
Well, Im about ready for the maiden BUT I have a bit of an issue.

I got the tail section all done with all linkages on and assemble the plane for another CG check and - OH NO!

Im 4" behind where Steve recommends the CG to be!! :eek:

So I did some calculations and where Im at now is around the 25% MAC point. That's if I include the fuse portions where the wing is in the area calcs. If I add in the forward fuse area Im more like 30-35% and thats pushing things a bit.

I think I will still be fine - I hope! I fly most all my planes with the CG pretty far back any way. I'll dial in some extra expo and keep my fingers crossed.

I could always do what Larry suggested and toss an old motorcycle battery up front too ;)

Seriously though, all the flat bottom fuse up front will act sort of like a fixed canard and the CG may well need to be further forward.

Hmmmmmm. I hate to do it but I may put some lead up front for the maiden.

Ok, off to cut the batery hatch and charge up the Tx and a couple of packs for tomorrow!

Hopefully I'll get some video too :)

larryross
01-18-2009, 05:05 AM
Take a motorcycle battery with you.:D Keep the nose up when you get close to the ground.

Good Luck
Larry

CHELLIE
01-18-2009, 05:41 AM
Ha ha ha Funny video... thanks for sharing it Chellie.:Q I haven't looked at the links yet.

Glad you enjoyed the video :D I cracked up when i saw it, and every time i see it :Q Good luck to you Larry on your Maiden, fingers crossed ;) Chellie

Larry3215
01-18-2009, 05:43 AM
Thanks!

CHELLIE
01-18-2009, 05:57 AM
Ok I will show off my Blooper/Mistake :D what was i thinking :Q Ok I really am Blond, I was making my elevator for my Giant bi plane, and i am going to add some wire braces on the elevator and rudder, so i epoxied some basswood into the stabilizer,for the brace wires, so i thought, it was the elevator, I am adding some helper areas to the tip of the elevator and rudder to help the servos along, and i was thinking conventional build rather than with the helper ends, and i made a Blooper, Silly me, it will be covered up with some tower covering, so no one will ever know :silly: :D :Q ;-) Take care, Chellie


BTW the elevator is 30" long :)


http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90836&d=1232258187

larryross
01-18-2009, 06:14 AM
30" elevator... that is going to be a big bipe.:D Are you building from scratch 3 view or from a pattern? Do you have a picture of what it will look like?

Larry3215
01-18-2009, 06:45 AM
Thats funny Chellie! You have actually come up with a blooper I havent done yet and I thought Id done them all! :)

CHELLIE
01-18-2009, 06:57 AM
30" elevator... that is going to be a big bipe.:D Are you building from scratch 3 view or from a pattern? Do you have a picture of what it will look like?

Hi, here is a build thread on it, its going to have a 9mm flat Depron foam wing and a full fuselage, made from 6mm depron, wish me luck, Chellie

Thats funny Chellie! You have actually come up with a blooper I havent done yet and I thought Id done them all! :)

LOL :D :D :D What was i thinking :Q

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42680 giant biplane build thread

CHELLIE
01-18-2009, 06:58 AM
I am building this biplane from scratch and pictures and TLAR Method :D

Larry3215
01-18-2009, 11:02 PM
It flys.....great!

Its not perfect but one heck of a good start. I am jazzed :D

Video and details to follow............

P.S. CG was fine where it was - for me. Some folks might consider it pitch sensitive, but its just the way I like it. You will see in the video it flys great!!!

CHELLIE
01-18-2009, 11:08 PM
It flys.....great!

Its not perfect but one heck of a good start. I am jazzed :D

Video and details to follow............

P.S. CG was fine where it was - for me. Some folks might consider it pitch sensitive, but its just the way I like it. You will see in the video it flys great!!!

YEA :D :D :D Glad it flies Great, Waiting on pins and needles for the video :Q Chellie

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 01:23 AM
Thanks Chellie :) The video is "processing" on YouTube now.

Ok, first things first - the cg. I flew it 4" behind where Steve suggested and it flew fine. The elevator is somewhat sensitive, but keep in mind I also have my ailerons set up as elevons so I have way more than twice as much "elevator" as the original design.

You will be able to tell in the video that the plane tracks very well so its not tail heavy in the conventional sense at all. Also, inverted flight still takes a fair amount of "down" stick to hold level. Its just that the elevator is very sensitive or maybe I should say very effective.

I have large 3D type throws programmed in as well - almost 45 degrees each way on all surfaces. But - my one bit of rationality - I had 75% expo dialed in on elevator and aileron.

Over all - its just about where I like it. Most people will probably prefer to keep it like Steve has with just the elevator controlling pitch and probably use reduced throws AND keep a good bit of expo. It is a close coupled bird and will tend to be sensitive in pitch anyway - especially with the elevator in the prop wash.

It feels like it could easily be made to do a Cobra maneuver if you buried the elevator at speed. I didnt want to try that just yet until Im more used to how it handles :D I also didnt try any spins.

It loops very well and even knife edges! Take off is easy and smooth as are landings.

At the end of the video you will see I go dead stick when the pack gives out. I didnt do the smoothest landing and kind of flopped it in but no damage at all.

It handles hi alpha very well. Once you get the nose up to 45 degrees or so you get a good bit of wing rock but its not bad and you can steer with rudder easily.

Ground handling is excelent. It will litterally turn in place! You will see that at the start of the video and I think it looks kind of cool :)

Things that need improvement:

1)The power system needs to be beefed up. Im only getting 3+ minutes of flight on my 6S1P A123 packs and thats running them down to 2150 mahr put back in!

The plane will fly easily at 1/4 throttle and in fact I did the first take off (not in the video) at just a hair over 1/4 throttle. However, Im spending a lot of time at full throttle and when I back off its only down to 1/2 and then back up to full.

It just looks better going faster and feels like it should be flown fast :) Thats eatting up the electrons at a heavy rate though.

Im going to have to run 2P packs to get any run time. I need to do that any way as I want to go to the 13" prop. because of the next issue

2) I barely have 1:1 thrust to weight. It struggles to do a big loop from level flight. So I'll jump up to a 13x7 or so for the next trials. That should give me a good bit more thrust and mabey a bit more speed.

That means more amps though, so I will definately need to go 2P on the packs.

3)Once I do that - I may need to go to a larger motor. It came down today at about 145 deg F after a prolonged full throttle run. The Mega is safe at that temp but this was a cool day - 40 deg. So summer time running could be an issue - especially with a larger prop.

4)The packs came out of the plane at 150 deg which is the upper limit for me on the A123's as well. I had no air flow at all to begin with so I cut a hole fore and aft to let some air flow get through. That helped a bit but it needs better air flow. Going to 2P will help a lot too so that may all work out ok.

Thats about it. The video wil be up shortly and you can see how well it flys. The video is a bit jerky - I think I turned off the stabilization some how. Oh well :)

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 01:32 AM
Here you go!

nVwl1htpJbQ

CHELLIE
01-19-2009, 01:40 AM
Thats Sweet Larry, She has Earned her Colors ;) I think you were having Way too Much Fun Too :silly:Take care, Chellie

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 01:53 AM
Yeah, I think she has earned them too. Thats the next step after some mods.

I need to make the battery hatch much larger to allow access to 2 packs as well as make up some air scoops. Then its color time!

Here are a few still shots from today. Thats my grandson helping me drink some hot chocolate :)

CHELLIE
01-19-2009, 02:10 AM
I see a future RCer Drinking some hot Chocolate :D he is a Cute little guy, I have all of my grand Kids here today, all 4 of them :eek: they are a hand full ;-) 3 boys and one girl , the boys are 8,8 and 6 months old, and the Grand Daughter is 5, so i will not get to much work done on the Bi Plane today, but i did sneak out this morning, and got some flying in :D the boys did not want to go, Thats ok, they wanted to play video games insted, Take care, Chellie

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 02:28 AM
He may well be a future RC'er but he is gonna have to learn to build his own planes before he gets to touch one of mine!

We have been practicing on the simulator from time to time BUT his favorite maneuver is "the crash" :eek:

The more peices that go flying off and the further they go the better he likes it :D

CHELLIE
01-19-2009, 03:33 AM
He may well be a future RC'er but he is gonna have to learn to build his own planes before he gets to touch one of mine!

We have been practicing on the simulator from time to time BUT his favorite maneuver is "the crash" :eek:

The more peices that go flying off and the further they go the better he likes it :D


Yea Right :D I bet Grandpa will buy him a crash resistant trainer before to long :Q :Q :Q LOL

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 03:50 AM
Yeah I probably will, but Im afraid he wont fly it unless it busts into a million pieces! ;)

larryross
01-19-2009, 03:52 AM
Nice Larry... given me renewed inspiration for mine. I may scrap my wing and start over. I think I will use PBIII and sandwich stiffeners inside and make a somewhat airfoil. I'll work a little more on the old one, but if it doesn't shape up soon it's a new one.:( Glad the maiden went well. BTW where did you put your ESC?

Larry

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 04:08 AM
I put the Phoenix 80 controller inside the fuse up near the front. I like using short battery side leads - especially on hi power setups. The motor leads are 12ga and I braided and twisted the run back to the motor.

I didnt think to check it today to see if/how hot it was getting though. Should have done that!

I still need to check my peak amp draw too. I suspect Im drawing more than I thought I was going to. Im probably up in the 50-60 amp range based on my flight times.

Id be carefull about adding tooo much weight behind the CG but Im not as worried about it as I was before the flight. I dont think you really need an airfoil, but on the other hand, thats a good way to add stiffness. The flat wing seems to fly just fine.

Which reminds me - I need to weigh it again to see where Im at now befor I cover it.

larryross
01-19-2009, 04:17 AM
I think by using PBIII I can make the wing lighter and stronger. I will also incorporate your removable wing design.

BTW how is that rigging working out?

Larry

I put the Phoenix 80 controller inside the fuse up near the front. I like using short battery side leads - especially on hi power setups. The motor leads are 12ga and I braided and twisted the run back to the motor.

I didnt think to check it today to see if/how hot it was getting though. Should have done that!

I still need to check my peak amp draw too. I suspect Im drawing more than I thought I was going to. Im probably up in the 50-60 amp range based on my flight times.

Id be carefull about adding tooo much weight behind the CG but Im not as worried about it as I was before the flight. I dont think you really need an airfoil, but on the other hand, thats a good way to add stiffness. The flat wing seems to fly just fine.

Which reminds me - I need to weigh it again to see where Im at now befor I cover it.

CHELLIE
01-19-2009, 04:18 AM
Now you Guys got me wanting to make a Polaris Sea Plane :D :D :D

larryross
01-19-2009, 04:42 AM
NOOOOO Chellie NO NO Don't do it. :D Just kidding. Let's see that will make #8 :D

CHELLIE
01-19-2009, 04:51 AM
NOOOOO Chellie NO NO Don't do it. :D Just kidding. Let's see that will make #8 :D

LOL :D :D :D see, I told you I was Plane Crazy :Q

larryross
01-19-2009, 05:17 AM
Us foam addicts have to support each other. HEhehe:ws:


LOL :D :D :D see, I told you I was Plane Crazy :Q

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 05:26 AM
LOL We sure do!

The removable wing setup Im using works just fine. Its easy to set up and take down and seems plenty strong. I used the same setup on another of my large foamies - BUFY. It has a 6 foot span and weighs close to 7 pounds and I flew it HARD with no problems. Im sure it had much higher stress levels on the carbon/aluminum tubes and they never failed or even bent.

When I finally killed it, the plane cart wheeled and broke the fuse in half but the wings survived just fine.

The only thing I need to do on this one is find some small dental rubber bands. Ive been using cut off pieces of fuel tubing to keep the carbon tubes centered but they are a bit too fat.

Chellie you will like the way the Polaris flys. You dont really have to build it this big, but of course, bigger is better :D

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 05:31 AM
Almost forgot - I just re-weighed it and my all up is 102 ounces or about 6.4 pounds! I must have been more careful than I normally am and didnt add as much weight as I usually do.

larryross
01-19-2009, 05:34 AM
Can you show more detail on the polaris wing setup?

Larry

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 06:17 AM
What part do you want to see?

How about I gather all the wing pics and post them in one place. Then you wont need to dig thru a bunch of posts.

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 06:24 AM
Removable wing tube/spar details

larryross
01-19-2009, 06:24 AM
That would be great Larry, but I was mainly interested in the way the carbon connected the wings to the center part(how they fit together) and what you were talking about rubber bands centering the tubes.

Larry

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 06:31 AM
Oh ok. Im using aluminum arrow shafts and some carbon arrow shafts. The carbon shafts are a slip fit inside the aluminum shafts.

Look at those pics above. The aluminum arrow shafts get glued into the wing halves and into the center section of the fuse.

You can see one pic where the carbon tubes are sticking out of the fuse. They are inserted into the aluminum tubes that are glued into the fuse sections of the wing.

The reason you need to keep the carbn tubes centered is that they are only about 32" long and the wing span is 60". If you didnt hold them centered some way they could slide off to one side and that would probably let the wing fold.

I didnt want to put any holes or dimples in the aluminum tubes as that would weaken them, so a small rubber band on each side over the carbon tubes keeps them from sliding from side to side.

Im currently using pieces of surgical tubing I cut myself but its hard to cut thin enough pieces. So thats why I want the dental bands. They should be about right.

Larry3215
01-19-2009, 06:32 AM
By the way - the carbon tubes are NOT glued in. They are left out for transportation and inserted at the field.

larryross
01-19-2009, 06:44 AM
OK the next to the last picutre above explains what I was missing. Thanks Larry for your trouble. Some times you have draw me a picture and sometimes twice.

CHELLIE
01-19-2009, 08:56 AM
LOL We sure do!

The removable wing setup Im using works just fine. Its easy to set up and take down and seems plenty strong. I used the same setup on another of my large foamies - BUFY. It has a 6 foot span and weighs close to 7 pounds and I flew it HARD with no problems. Im sure it had much higher stress levels on the carbon/aluminum tubes and they never failed or even bent.

When I finally killed it, the plane cart wheeled and broke the fuse in half but the wings survived just fine.

The only thing I need to do on this one is find some small dental rubber bands. Ive been using cut off pieces of fuel tubing to keep the carbon tubes centered but they are a bit too fat.

Chellie you will like the way the Polaris flys. You dont really have to build it this big, but of course, bigger is better :D

LOL :D :D :D The plane seems to handel very nice, and will be the easiest sea plane that I will ever make ;-), Yes us Foam Addicts have to stick together, as there is little hope for us :Q :silly: :p> ;)

benovisoff
01-19-2009, 08:18 PM
I had to sub to this...:)

CHELLIE
01-20-2009, 01:31 AM
Thought you Guys might enjoy this, Enjoy, Chellie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6c-LweM-VM&NR=1

Larry3215
01-20-2009, 02:24 AM
That was pretty cool Chellie!

benovisoff
01-20-2009, 02:25 AM
very nice :)

larryross
01-20-2009, 02:41 AM
That thing had a lot of power. I was surprised it didn't WOW sooner. Wish I could play with those expensive toys (not really) I'll feel bad enough if my cheap things ditch.:Q Good show Chellie.

CHELLIE
01-20-2009, 03:03 AM
here is another one, turn down the volume, unless you like chinese music :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTN7l43m5qo

CHELLIE
01-20-2009, 03:18 AM
This is neet :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71DuMpZqONI

benovisoff
01-20-2009, 03:21 AM
cool. how's the bipe coming along?

CHELLIE
01-20-2009, 03:24 AM
cool. how's the bipe coming along?

LOL :D :D :D Its coming along great, I need to get my behind out into the hobby room and do some more work on it rather than peck away on this key board :Q Take Care, Chellie

benovisoff
01-20-2009, 03:27 AM
alright, DO THAT! :)

Larry3215
01-22-2009, 05:22 AM
First the good things - I've started to add some color to the Polaris and thats working out fairly well so far. Lots more to do. The colored packing tape sticks well. A pass over by a med hot covering iron helps a lot. I still need to paint a lot of the blue foam with white which Im not looking forward to.

My cowling ended up looking pretty cool I think. Its tilted down a bit more than I wanted but it will do for now.

Now the not so good.

Ive been playing with various options for an air scoop in the front. I haven't come up with anything I like so Im just going to do something and live with it for a while - until Im inspired :)

I did some checking and decided where the two packs would need to go to balance properly and cut a new hatch in.

Thats when I got a good look at my speed controller :eek::eek: Holly cow! The heat shrink is melted badly and the foam it was sitting on is also melted :eek::eek:

Good golly molly I must be pulling waaaaay more amps than I expected. That got me to wondering how that could be so I went back and re ran the numbers through MotoCalc.

I must have pushed the wrong buttons the first time I ran the numbers or entered something way off because now Im seeing predicted amp values up near 80 amps! With no cooling air flow no wonder things got hot!

On looking closer I noticed that the efficiency numbers are down close to 50%! Thats why the motor is running so hot.

Obviously I need to prop down a lot until I can get a motor with a lower kV. I am running this setup waaaay over proped.

I should be able to get better performance on fewer watts by running the motor in a more efficient range. I definately need the ugly air scoop :)

CHELLIE
01-22-2009, 05:28 AM
That Cowl looks Awesome Larry, good job, I like it :D

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91265&d=1232601650

benovisoff
01-22-2009, 05:49 AM
awesome. I just realized that this isn't the bipe thread. whoops :)

Larry3215
01-24-2009, 08:31 AM
Ive made some good progress on the changes. I came up with a new idea for the air intake - its part of the new hatch. Looks a lot better than my other idea.

Im also getting some more color on it. I have some Coast Guard markings I'll be adding as well when its a little further along.

Its about ready to test fly with the 2P battery setup and a much smaller prop. The motor I want isnt in stock at medusa yet so I'll have to wait on the new power plant for a while. Im still waiting and a new spinner which will help the looks too.

CHELLIE
01-24-2009, 10:49 AM
Thats looking Super Larry, keep up the great work, Chellie

Larry3215
01-26-2009, 06:54 AM
The fuse is about done as far as dolling it up goes. I still have one wing to finish and it will be as pretty as I am willing (or able) to make it :)

If the weather warms up a little later this week Im going to try to get out to the pond to do some water testing. Its toooo coooold to chance getting wet now though!

larryross
01-26-2009, 07:15 AM
That water bird looks great Larry. I love :$ the scoop, but you're going to have make sure you keep it right side up on the water. Colored tape is cheating, but it sure looks good. ;) Do you Corrosion-X your electronics? I haven't made much progress on mine, but I got the shop cleaned up (the center at least) and my build table is flat empty so the Polaris wing will be on the table tomorrow. I have spent far too much time finishing the small parts. If I keep at it I'll have it ready for final assembly and paint.

Later
Larry

CHELLIE
01-26-2009, 07:20 AM
Sweet :D Nice job Larry

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91688&d=1232952807

CHELLIE
01-26-2009, 07:22 AM
BTW where did you get the color tape at Larry ?

Larry3215
01-26-2009, 08:29 AM
Thanks for the compliments! It turned out better than most of my attempts at dolling up a foamy :)

Im liking the colored tape. I got it from these guys.

http://www.fast-pack.com/colored_tape.html

Towards the bottom of the page is a package deal where you get 6 rolls for $9.45 plus $6.50 shipping. Comes to $16 for 6 rolls which isnt bad. You get to choose any colors you want too which is great. I got 1 roll of white, 2 red and 3 black.

The white doesnt cover very well at all unless its going over a white base so keep that in mind. The red covers fairly well but not 100%. You can see the lap lines. The black covers almost anything. So its important to plan your application so the darkest colors go on last.

I run a covering iron set to medium heat over the tape after its applied and that seems to make it stick better and smooths out some of the wrinkles.

Larry - I use CorrosionX on everything except the servos. I dunk the motor, rx, BEC, esc, servo leads, power conectors, etc.

Dont do the servos. The CorrosionX will kill about 1 out of 3 from my experience.

I dont worry about being upside down in the water and things getting wet.

I have deliberately run a rx, esc, servos and motors while they were completely under water with no issues after they were treated with CorrosionX.

When I fly my Capricorns on the water, the controller is under the wing and gets splashed all the time. I have had the Capricorn up-side down in the water for 20 minutes waiting for a breeze to blow it right side up again. The motor, controller and rx are under water the whole time. As soon as it gets right side up - Im flying again. I dont even wait to dry anything out. Its not necessary.

The stuff is truely amazing. The TV commercial they used to run showed them watching a TV treated with CorrosionX while it was on the bottom of a swimming pool!!

A few people have reported loosing esc's when they went into the water even after being treated with CorrosionX. I have never had any issues after many dozens of dunkings with several different controllers.

I can only assume they didnt get the stuff into every nook and cranny under the heat shrink.

The other possibility is they didnt shut off the throttle soon enough after the plane went into the water. The amp draw of a prop in the water is at least 20 times more than in the air. Its just like stopping the prop from turning and going to full throttle.

So if you dont shut down soon enough after hitting the water, your going to burn something up for sure.

I have occasionally had an untreated servo go nuts when it filled up with water but they have always been ok after drying out. More often than not its no problem.

Im hoping I wont get much if any splashing into the cooling inlet but I'll have to wait and see once I get it on the water.

The only problem that would cause would be a weight and balance issue if enough water did get inside.

I dont really have any choice anyway. With a 1000+ watt power system you have to cool it some way or you'll get melt down like I did on the maiden flights!

Larry3215
01-26-2009, 08:38 AM
By the way - the air scoop is also my battery hatch.

CHELLIE
01-26-2009, 08:54 AM
Thank you Larry, My Bi Plane needs some trim color :) Take care, Chellie

Larry3215
01-27-2009, 02:17 AM
Hurray! The new Medusa motor Im after is now in stock! Should be here by the weekend if Im lucky :D

With the new motor and 2P packs I should be getting well over 1/1 thrust and a good bit more speed and runtime! Thats a combination I can always live with :D

Larry3215
01-28-2009, 04:11 AM
Ok, its about all done and ready for the re-maiden with the new power system. Just need to get the new motor installed.

I cant decide if the fairings for the wing servos need some color or not....

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91892&stc=1&d=1233115851

CHELLIE
01-28-2009, 04:48 AM
Yes they do, Make them PINK :)

Larry3215
01-28-2009, 06:38 AM
LOL

Larry3215
01-28-2009, 07:21 AM
Like this??? ;)

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91903&stc=1&d=1233127269

CHELLIE
01-28-2009, 07:26 AM
Perrrrrfect LOL :)

larryross
01-28-2009, 04:34 PM
No color... even though they are good looking fairings they should be as invisible as possible. IMHO

CHELLIE
01-29-2009, 03:11 AM
paint them lite gray and mount 3 - 50 caliber machine guns on each one :) :) :) LOL

Larry3215
01-29-2009, 04:52 AM
LOL

The plane isnt quite that big. Maybe 2 50 cal each :D

Larry3215
01-31-2009, 07:39 AM
The new Medusa 36-70-750v2 motor arrived today!

After I got it installed, that let me establish the final position for the two packs. Lucky for me its right where I put the hatch!

Tomorrow I'll do some full power run ups to see if this set up is what Im expecting. Then, if the weather cooperates, I should get to do a water test Sunday!

With the second pack and the heavier motor Im up to 120 ounces all up - just about 7.5 pounds. Just over my highest guestimate at the beginning - as usual! :)

Im going to be disappointed if it sinks! ;)

Larry3215
02-01-2009, 12:25 AM
Just got back from a very nice day of flying and..... it did NOT sink :D

I'll post some beauty shots now then more details later. The short version is that I am very pleased over all :D

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=92239&stc=1&d=1233447845

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=92247&stc=1&d=1233447845

larryross
02-01-2009, 03:54 AM
You should be Larry, she's a baut and if she flies great that's icing on the cake. Congrats

Mine is still not done. I got sidetracted (as usual) with a toon build.
Here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=991359

Want to get back to the Polaris/s though. SOON hopefully.

Larry

larryross
02-01-2009, 04:02 AM
Larry
Would you mind picking up on the DaJet discussion on the DaJet thread?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=934315&page=34

Thanks
Larry

CHELLIE
02-01-2009, 05:20 AM
Very Nice Build Larry, It looks Sweet, Now, I am not sure Who is Cuter, the Polaris or You :p> Your going to have to give me some time on that One :D :D :D Glad you had a great time flying today, Are you going to have some video of your Creation ???? Would love to see that, Take care, Chellie

Larry3215
02-01-2009, 06:43 AM
You should be Larry, she's a baut and if she flies great that's icing on the cake. Congrats

Mine is still not done. I got sidetracted (as usual) with a toon build.
Here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=991359

Want to get back to the Polaris/s though. SOON hopefully.

Larry

Thanks Larry! Your going to like how it flys - and it handles great on the water too! Not quite perfect, but good enough :D

Larry
Would you mind picking up on the DaJet discussion on the DaJet thread?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=934315&page=34

Thanks
Larry

Sorry Larry, but I cant/wont post on RCG any more.

I got permanently banned from RCG because I called the Little Screamers guys, Bob Vincent (Rvincent the shill) and Scott (the owner), liars, fibbers, prevaricators, thieves, cheats, scumbags, degenerates, and, in general, all around bad guys who have bad breath and BO. I had proof of all of that but the last two items :)

I was actually fairly polite about it - considering that they had cheeted myself and many others and blantantly lied about it, but the senoir Moderator - Jim T Grahm - works for Hobby Lobby and Little Screamers is one of thier main vendors and Hobby Lobby pays a major portion of the bills at RCG.

I got in the way of the money flow and honesty took the hit.

Very Nice Build Larry, It looks Sweet, Now, I am not sure Who is Cuter, the Polaris or You :p> Your going to have to give me some time on that One :D :D :D Glad you had a great time flying today, Are you going to have some video of your Creation ???? Would love to see that, Take care, Chellie

Thanks Chellie! Did you miss the video I posted back in post 76?I re-posted it in post #1.

I will get a new video done with the new colors asap. Im hoping to get some water video soon too but that may have to wait. The pond in those pics is closely surrounded by trees on 3 sides and on the "open side" there are two trees in dificult locations. Id have to make a sharp 90 degree turn imediately after take off and just prior to landing on that pond. On the flight out and back in you have to dodge those other trees.

I have no problems with BUFY or any of the Capricorns but this plane likes to fly a LOT faster.

I want a few more flights under my belt to get a better feel for the low speed handling before I try that with this bird :)

CHELLIE
02-01-2009, 06:50 AM
Keep telling it like it is Larry3215 :D So What if you got Banned from the other Forum, I visit them for info from time to time, But i like it here a Heck of a lot better ;-) I thought you might have some video of the Polaris flying off ther water, It looks very nice on the water, Take care, Chellie

Do You Have a Chain Saw for those pesky trees around the pond :)

larryross
02-01-2009, 06:56 AM
Thanks Larry! Your going to like how it flys - and it handles great on the water too! Not quite perfect, but good enough :D



Sorry Larry, but I cant/wont post on RCG any more.

I got permanently banned from RCG because I called the Little Screamers guys, Bob Vincent (Rvincent the shill) and Scott (the owner), liars, fibbers, prevaricators, thieves, cheats, scumbags, degenerates, and, in general, all around bad guys who have bad breath and BO. I had proof of all of that but the last two items :)

I was actually fairly polite about it - considering that they had cheeted myself and many others and blantantly lied about it, but the senoir Moderator - Jim T Grahm - works for Hobby Lobby and Little Screamers is one of thier main vendors and Hobby Lobby pays a major portion of the bills at RCG.

I got in the way of the money flow and honesty took the hit.



Thanks Chellie! Did you miss the video I posted back in post 76?I re-posted it in post #1.

I will get a new video done with the new colors asap. Im hoping to get some water video soon too but that may have to wait. The pond in those pics is closely surrounded by trees on 3 sides and on the "open side" there are two trees in dificult locations. Id have to make a sharp 90 degree turn imediately after take off and just prior to landing on that pond. On the flight out and back in you have to dodge those other trees.

I have no problems with BUFY or any of the Capricorns but this plane likes to fly a LOT faster.

I want a few more flights under my belt to get a better feel for the low speed handling before I try that with this bird :)

Sorry I didn't know.:(
If I started a thread here or used some other thread. I would really like to further discuss it. I would like to run some ideas by you and get your take. If you would rather not take the time I will understand.

Larry

Larry3215
02-01-2009, 07:20 AM
Here are the last of todays pics.

The plane is now a little more than a pound heavier than before but it still flys great! The CG is about 1" more forward than before and I want to move it back. It takes noticably more down stick to hold inverted.

I ran the new system up with a 12x6 prop and was drawing about 64 amps at 1060 watts at 11,200 rpm on the cold 6S2P A123 pack. That was about 30 seconds into the run with the packs still cold at around 45 degrees.

It flew nicely but still didnt quite have 1/1 thrust and the speed still felt a tad slow.

Everything came down barely warm after the flight.

I switched to the 13x6.5 APC E and got 75 amps at 1265 watts on packs that were warmed up after the first flight so they held a bit better voltage.

Much better. I now have better than 1/1 thrust but not by a ton. It will climb straight up forever but its not a rocket. Good enough.

Speed is better but still not as fast as I was expecting. I may try a 13x8 down the road a bit. The packs will handle the draw easily but I'll probably be pushing the controller and motor a tad. If Im not much over 80 amps I may go that way just to have the extra oomph once in a while :D

Two flights on the 13x6.5 set up and the motor, esc, and packs came down slightly warm. Perfect!

The water tests went very well. I did a lot of hi sped taxiing and turning and going slow and stopping and starting. I got zero water inside - no leaks - and no water got into the air scoop or the servo slots in the tail :D

The only down side I can see is the turning radius on the water is pretty large. It turns much larger circles than my Capricorns. In one picture below you can see where I didnt start the first turn on the pond soon enough and ended up on a log against the shore! I was just able to reach it with a stick and push it back out.

I need to add a drop down water rudder I think. The main rudder is cut a bit too hi as it sits now. I did that on purpose so it wouldnt drag on land. Ive gone thru a lot of servos that way :)

Hi speed steering when "on step" is excelent but still rather large turning circles.

Im comparing this to my Mega Capricorn which is a little unfair. The Mega has a rudder thats 5 times as large :D

Im going to move the step back once I get the CG finalized so that may help with the 'at speed' stearing.

Im not too worried about the turning circle though. This isnt really a small puddle flyer any way. Certainly not to the degree the Capricorns are.

I was mentally comparing it to the Mega Capricorn all day but thats not really fair. They are apples and oranges.

In most ways the Mega handles on the water better - much better actually. Its also easier to fly, take off and land - mostly because it can do all of those things much slower and in a much smaller amount of space and it has a huge amount of built in stability in almost any attitude. The Mega is more agile and far more manoverable too.

Its not that the Polaris flys badly at all, its just that the Mega is in a class by itself.

BUT... when you put the two side by side the Mega is kind of the ugly duckling in comparison. The Polaris is soooo sexy and looks soooo cool in the air that it pretty much balances all the rest out :D

If I could only have one - Id kick and scream and hollar and choose the Mega, but you'll have to fight me to give up the Polaris :D

Larry3215
02-01-2009, 07:30 AM
Sorry I didn't know.:(
If I started a thread here or used some other thread. I would really like to further discuss it. I would like to run some ideas by you and get your take. If you would rather not take the time I will understand.

Larry

Dont sweat it Larry :)

Start a thread over here for sure! Id love to discuss the plane with you. Its got some unique issues and possibilities I think. Plus it just looks cool :D

Larry3215
02-01-2009, 07:35 AM
Keep telling it like it is Larry3215 :D So What if you got Banned from the other Forum, I visit them for info from time to time, But i like it here a Heck of a lot better ;-) I thought you might have some video of the Polaris flying off ther water, It looks very nice on the water, Take care, Chellie

Do You Have a Chain Saw for those pesky trees around the pond :)

I'll get some new video asap :)

P.S. shhhhhhhhhhhhh..... Dont tell the Tree Huggers, but there is a strong possibility that those two trees out in the flight path may have an 'accident' in the near future. ;)

CHELLIE
02-01-2009, 09:54 AM
Hi Larry and Larry :D On the Polaris props, May i suggest trying a wood nitro prop, I have gone over to Nitro wood props on my larger motors, and they seem to work much better than the plastic APC props, lot more thrust and power, I like the Zinger wood props, I belive Zinger even makes a wood e prop, but I like the nitro props better ;-) every one i have told this to, has tried the wood nitro props and agree, Just My 2 cents worth, Take care, Chellie

Larry3215
02-01-2009, 05:05 PM
I have been meaning to try some glow props on my larger planes but havent gotten around to it yet.

Zinger has a couple of pitch sizes that APC doesnt so I may just try one on the Polaris.

Thanks Chellie!

larryross
02-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Thanks Chellie
I was thinking of maybe trying that on my giant Pitts, but didn't know what to expect. Now I will definately try it.:D

Larry

larryross
02-02-2009, 09:46 PM
Dont sweat it Larry :)

Start a thread over here for sure! Id love to discuss the plane with you. Its got some unique issues and possibilities I think. Plus it just looks cool :D

Thanks Larry
I will start a thread here as soon as I get to feeling a little better. I really would like to see that stagger wing jet fly. You might just be the man to find the problem.:D I will appreciate any help you can give.

Larry

Larry3215
02-08-2009, 07:10 AM
I got several more flights in on the XXL Polaris today - sorry no video!

I am likeing it more every time I fly it :D

I moved the CG back some more today but it needs to go back more yet. It still needs a good bit of down to hold inverted. I may have to move my battery hatch so I can move the packs further back.

I discovered today that it spins much better inverted than up-right but still not very well. It may be my technique but its probably mostly a CG thing so I'll try some more after I get the CG back further.

I also discovered that it does an awesome 'Lomchaveck' maneuver. For you 3D guys it looks kind of like a 'wall'. Kind of cool looking! Its important to go easy on the elevator in hi speed turn though or you will get a 'departure from controlled flight' :D

I did a lot of slow hi alpha flight today. Trying to see if I could fly it off my small pond.

Its not anything like as good as the Capricorns but its not bad. It slows down nicely with some wing rock but its easily controllable. I think my having the ailerons work as elevons helps the wing rock because I get reflex when I give UP elevator.

The trick is to maintain forward speed at all times though. If the speed drops off too much it will abruptly stop flying and start to waffle down towards the ground! Fortunately I have enough power so that all I need to do is goose it and drop the nose a tad and its flying again. It doesnt drop a wing but it still eats up some altitude so you need to be carefull.

Im still not going to try it on the pond untill I have a lot more flights and a better feel for when the stall occurs :)

CHELLIE
02-08-2009, 09:02 AM
Your Grounded Larry ::o For no Video and your having Way to much fun :D :D :D Glad The Polaris is flying well for you, Take care, Chellie

larryross
02-09-2009, 06:39 AM
Larry
I posted the daJet here.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=560635#post560635

I would love for someone to make that little jet fly.

Larry3215
02-10-2009, 05:14 AM
Your Grounded Larry ::o For no Video and your having Way to much fun :D :D :D Glad The Polaris is flying well for you, Take care, Chellie

The weather has been to cloudy/foggy to get video the last two times I went out. Maybe next time :)

Larry
I posted the daJet here.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/shoread.php?p=560635#post560635

I would love for someone to make that little jet fly.

I posted some thoughts in the thread. Hope they help!

I have found a couple of weak points in the design that you may want to address in yours Larry.

I should say its not any weakness due to poor design on Steve's part but a material weakness. The blue foam is not great for hi stress areas and a few places are needing more attention on my plane.

I flipped it over tonight to start the process of moving the step further back and thats when I saw that the foam at the step is showing signs of compression. If you only ran on the water it would not be an issue but I will be flying of grass/pavement more than off water. I decided to add a vertical Ply piece at the step. It will rest on another ply piece to spread the load out along the underside of the tail section.

That tail section is the second area needing attention. I found a number of holes and scratches and divits caused by running over rough grass/ground. The area at the very rear is ok where I had the super slick tape applied. That stuff is very tough.

I was just going to tape over the rest of the underside of the tail but then I found the third problem area.

On the top side just in front of the ply plate the motor/rudder mounts to there is a stress crack across the wing section. Its right exactly where the ply plate stops. There must be a fair amount of bending force at that point.

So... I decided to glass the bottom of the tail section and the top center of the wing at the rear to spread the loads out some more and stifen up the tail section in that area. It would have helped if I had made that plate cover more area extending it more forward.

Larry3215
02-23-2009, 01:14 AM
Had a great time at a fly-in at the lake Sawyer Hawks field yesterday.

It was crazy windy but I flew the Polaris several times anyway. Turns out it handles the wind very well. The new step location seems to work well on the grass so Im anticipating good water habits.

The Polaris got a lot of attention. Two fo the guys told me they had voted it the un-official best of show :)

Most of the guys had never seen a foamy that big and they were surprised at the power and performance in flight.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=94560&stc=1&d=1235351521

Bill G
02-24-2009, 04:31 PM
Looks great Larry!
Need a little more bodywork on the farings though.:D

Larry3215
02-25-2009, 03:16 AM
LOL

Compared to your builds I need to do a little more body work to everything! I am in awe of your builds Bill.

I figured I was doing good as it is :)

The last time I slaved over the details on a model and really cared about how it looked was a Byron F86 ducted fan I built back in the mid 70's. My buddy and I had invested a couple grand and several hundred man hours in that thing. It turned out very nice indeed. We came in second in the only scale event I ever entered.

I lost it on the second flight due to aileron flutter. I almost quit the hobby right then. After that Ive never been willing to put that much time or effort into something I know has a limited life expectancy. Especially the way I fly! :D

Bill G
03-01-2009, 10:29 PM
You know I was joking about the purple farings that you drew onto the picture using MS Paint, or something like that.:D The finished ones look good.

I hear you about putting so much work into 1 plane. The few where I've done that, I never brave flying. I flew my Rake Bristo M1c once, which flew well, but I'm still afraid to fly it again. After that, I've been doing only simple foam scratchbuilds. Anymore than 2 weeks or so on a project is too much emotional investment for me.:D

Larry3215
03-01-2009, 11:07 PM
Thats about where Im at with it too. The difference is I have been spending money to get good looks and you do it with a magic touch :D

The last few weeks Ive been debating on my next build and having a hard time deciding. I have had my eye on several different projects for some time now, but my hobby budget has gotten drastically smaller lately thanks to the economy.

Im also about out of room in my shop thanks to the larger foamies Ive been doing lately. I was looking over my planes and decided to catagorize them by how much fun I had flying them.

The best loking ones I own - ARF's mostly - are also the ones I have the most money invested into and are the ones I fly least often!

The planes I have the most fun flying are the ones that I am least worried about crashing. The others are very cool in some ways and fun to take to fly-ins and show off but I dont get that much of a kick out of the flying. Im afraid to take any risks.

The Mega Capricorn and BUFY were far from beauties but they are an absolute hoot to fly.

So - Im going to get rid of my big balsa 30% KMP Yak and put the power system into a foamy that is the same size but weighs 1/3 as much and fly the crap out of it :D

Larry3215
03-27-2009, 02:34 AM
I finally got a chance to fly the big Polaris off some decent sized water.

It flew great! It tokk me a coule of tries to get the landing techinque down but Im pleased :D

I did discover a couple of areas that are going to need some more strengthening. I'll post about that later.

spWHWq5qOV8

CHELLIE
03-27-2009, 03:30 AM
Show Off :D :D :D That was neet Larry, First time i have ever seen, Water touch and goes :Q :Q :Q Take care and have fun, Chellie

Larry3215
03-28-2009, 07:07 AM
Show Off :D :D :D That was neet Larry, First time i have ever seen, Water touch and goes :Q :Q :Q Take care and have fun, Chellie

Guilty!

Not ALL of those touch-n-goes were the result of dumb thumbs :)

One of the guys sent me some pics he took at the float fly.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=97424&stc=1&d=1238220490

Larry3215
04-19-2009, 07:11 AM
I went to a float fly today and got the XXL Polaris wet again :)

Got another shot with the Mega Cap showing off the size along with my copilot in training and chief design assistant :)

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=99180&stc=1&d=1240121393

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=99181&stc=1&d=1240121393

Alpea42
05-14-2009, 01:54 AM
I've got my plans done at Kinkos for the standard sized one. And Steve has ordered some 6mm depron that should be here this week. I've been reading the long thread at R/CG. And I'm getting anxious to get started. Of course it's created from the North Star. But it reminds me of a ground effect air boat I saw in Pop. Mechanics years ago. That boat was a pusher air boat with a delta wing that let it cruise just above the water.

Larry3215
05-14-2009, 04:24 AM
I saw a home built full scale WIG plane similar to that on U-tube awhile back. I think they were selling them.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Larry3215
05-14-2009, 04:26 AM
No one has done a regular Polaris build thread yet. You should do one.

Alpea42
05-14-2009, 04:40 AM
Larry did you know that Steve Shumate himself posted your video of your giant one over there.

Larry3215
05-14-2009, 06:50 AM
No, I didnt see that. Was it recent?

Alpea42
05-14-2009, 03:13 PM
I skipped thru the thread so I don't know where it is the thread is so long I can't be sure. Best thing to do is coordinate the date of your video to the dates on the pages. It's there tho. I tried to find it but no luck. This plane is very popular. I didn't find it yet Larry but I went thru the thread from the begginning and I found this pic. of a ground effect flying boat http://www.australianhovercraft.com/hoverc9.jpg This is post http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10860479&postcount=331 Can you imagine the ground loop that thing would do if the driver drops a wing tip into a wave. A craft like this would never be available to the non-pilot public. Would it?

Larry3215
05-15-2009, 12:49 AM
I just had shoulder surgery and Im still on the good drugs (thats my excuse anyway) and I just remembered that Steve did post a link to the first video I did. No need to look for it :)

Thats a cool looking bird! The one I saw on U-tube was much smaller - 1 or 2 person sized.

son of alpea42
06-26-2009, 09:50 PM
My son got one of the regular sized Polaris'es we're building done, Larry. He didn't want to fly it off dirt so no maiden today.

Larry3215
06-27-2009, 03:42 AM
I understand his concern :) Its one good looking airplane!

What did you guys use on the bottom for skid material?

Duct tape works fairly well and is cheep and easy to replace but wears off pretty fast and isnt the slickest material.

Ive used plastic from coke bottles, milk jugs and cat litter containers and bleach bottles. I like bleach bottles and cat litter plastic the best. Bleach bottle stuff is lighter but the cat litter stuff is indestructible. You need 3m 77 to get it to stick and sand the plastic and clean it with ascetone first to get the best bond.

Some guys have also found some very thin plastic baking sheet material from Target that works well but I haven't tried that yet.

My favorite is an industrial teflon tape thats used on conveyer belts instead of rollers. Its very tough, self sticking, water proof and very very slick - its also very expensive though.

Also - do you have any air flow for the esc and pack? I think your going to need that.

son of alpea42
06-27-2009, 06:01 AM
Yeah it's a C C Pheniox 25A ESC. His prop motor draws 18A . We're not trying float plane flight yet and for right now thats his ESC surface mounted right under the prop.

Larry3215
06-27-2009, 08:34 AM
I didnt see it back there! You did just the opposite of what I did. I used long motor side leads and kept the battery leads as short as possible. My esc is up from with the packs.

If you do decide on some water runs - get some CorrosionX. That stuff cant be beat for waterproofing. See the second or third post in my Capricorn thread for details.

I dont know how many times Ive been upside down in the water with rx and esc and motor ALL completely under water for long periods with NO damage. 8 times out of 10 the wind will blow me back right side up and I can take off again in just a minute or so like nothing happened.

Just last week I was out with my big foamy Yak on the lake and dumb thumbed it in. It drifted across the lake for over 30 minutes with all the goodies under water. I got it back, drained the water out of the fuse and took off again :)

Good luck on the maiden!

son of alpea42
06-27-2009, 09:24 PM
It flew, but was long on the take off run. And then needed up elevator trim. I think the neg. angle on the motor thrust means I need a few clicks of up elevator trim. Other than that it was very stable and fast and didn't show any bad traits. The 1st take off was comical as speed got up I applied back pressure on the elevator stick it bounced a couple of times like a big sea plane and got air born no problem. But the neg. thrust angle makes you think it doesn't have enough power which is a false symptom because when you reduce throttle it continues flying fine. The other trait that made us think not enough power was the bare depron on the bottom of the fuse was too much friction to move at full throttle on the damp early morning grass. Also like your 1st landing it's critical to get the landing speed and AoA just right on landing to keep from making a 3 or 4 bounce landing. But once you get that figured out it lands smooth.

CHELLIE
06-27-2009, 09:30 PM
It flew, but was long on the take off run. And then needed up elevator trim. I think the neg. angle on the motor thrust means I need a few clicks of up elevator trim. Other than that it was very stable and fast and didn't show any bad traits. The 1st take off was comical as speed got up I applied back pressure on the elevator stick it bounced a couple of times like a big sea plane and got air born no problem.


Yea, It Flies, We Need Video :D Good job you Guys, Take care, Chellie

Larry3215
06-28-2009, 05:16 AM
Congrats!!

Yeah - we need video!

son of alpea42
06-28-2009, 07:14 AM
Too bad U tube edited the audio it was hilarious. http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=616199&postcount=6053

Fviking
06-30-2009, 11:03 PM
My Polaris is done, and the wind is kicking up whitecaps on the lake !
I waterproofed my ESC with conformal epoxy 3M makes it it is called DP 270
you mix it up and after removing the shrink wrap pour it all over in into the ESC, not on the heat sink though. Then take a heat gun and heat it up the epoxy thins out and most runs off but enough to waterproof it remains. Hang it over a paper plate untill it stops dripping.
You can find 3M DP 270 and Corrosion X Here http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=79
I also do Fast Electric Boats that is where I learned that trick. I have a 36" fiberglass boat I made that does 50 mph. Video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5l_dtsMtSsEnjoy;
John

Alpea42
07-01-2009, 01:37 AM
FVik I saw yours at the thread at R/C G nice job. We've up motored ours to a Turnigy 450 1050 Kv with a 7x5 prop on 4 cells and it seems to have greater than 1 to 1 thrust now. So I'm hopin it gets air born quicker and the motor wont be hot. Have ordered this motor for the 2nd one http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/catalog/imageNA.gif Says it's equall to a Axi 2808.http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/catalog/imageNA.gif

Larry3215
07-01-2009, 02:53 AM
My Polaris is done, and the wind is kicking up whitecaps on the lake !
I waterproofed my ESC with conformal epoxy 3M makes it it is called DP 270
you mix it up and after removing the shrink wrap pour it all over in into the ESC, not on the heat sink though. Then take a heat gun and heat it up the epoxy thins out and most runs off but enough to waterproof it remains. Hang it over a paper plate untill it stops dripping.
You can find 3M DP 270 and Corrosion X Here http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=79
I also do Fast Electric Boats that is where I learned that trick. I have a 36" fiberglass boat I made that does 50 mph. Video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5l_dtsMtSsEnjoy;
John

I havent tried the conformal coating on anything yet. The CorrosionX has been working for me without issue.

That conformal coating is the same type of thing Castle Creations will do for you if you ask when you order from them. I forget but I think they only charge about $5 or so to do an esc or Rx.

FVik I saw yours at the thread at R/C G nice job. We've up motored ours to a Turnigy 450 1050 Kv with a 7x5 prop on 4 cells and it seems to have greater than 1 to 1 thrust now. So I'm hopin it gets air born quicker and the motor wont be hot. Have ordered this motor for the 2nd one http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/catalog/imageNA.gif Says it's equall to a Axi 2808.http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/catalog/imageNA.gif

Alpea42 - your doing things a bit different from the masses. Most are running motors closer to 1800-2000 kV on 3S.

Nice job to both of you on your Polari :)

CHELLIE
07-01-2009, 03:15 AM
My Polaris is done, and the wind is kicking up whitecaps on the lake !
I waterproofed my ESC with conformal epoxy 3M makes it it is called DP 270
you mix it up and after removing the shrink wrap pour it all over in into the ESC, not on the heat sink though. Then take a heat gun and heat it up the epoxy thins out and most runs off but enough to waterproof it remains. Hang it over a paper plate untill it stops dripping.
You can find 3M DP 270 and Corrosion X Here http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=79
I also do Fast Electric Boats that is where I learned that trick. I have a 36" fiberglass boat I made that does 50 mph. Video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5l_dtsMtSsEnjoy;
John

Nice Boat John :ws: it seems to bounce to much on the water, would plastic flexable trim tabs here, to help keep the nose down ???? Take care and have fun, Chellie

Fviking
07-01-2009, 03:26 AM
Hi;
The wind layed down about 6:30, I ran down to the lake with my Polaris. I am having a little trouble with the throttle and rudder on the same stick, trying to do some of that fancy taxiing. I am new to flying.
A gentle breeze came up and I ran straight into it, just touched the elevator and she came up so nice, about then a gust of wind hit so I hit the down elevator and my plane disappeared beneath the surface of the lake:eek: like an Olympic swimmer. It rose slowly to the surface, I waited a minute then tried the motor and it spun to life and I drove it back to me, and took it to the shop to dry out. All seems well. Well all of the blue tape came off and so did all of my tape hinges:confused:. We have been using this clear Hockey stick tape to tape down hatches on FE boats and it is super sticky but comes off clean, haven't had a hatch leak even when it was upside down while I paddled out to get it.
I put a coat of WBPU on the hinge areas maybe that will help.
Later;
John

Alpea42
07-01-2009, 05:03 AM
Ha ha ha a Polaris as a submarine. Hmmmm that's mixed up. Yeah Larry we're still tryin to use a motor we already have on James's. The new Chinese motor tho is 1700Kv. The recomended Grayson is about $40 and the new Turnigy is only $18. If it comes close to an Axi 2808 it should do O K. I know you don't care for the Chinese stuff guess we'll see.

Larry3215
07-01-2009, 08:47 AM
Hi;
The wind layed down about 6:30, I ran down to the lake with my Polaris. I am having a little trouble with the throttle and rudder on the same stick, trying to do some of that fancy taxiing. I am new to flying.
A gentle breeze came up and I ran straight into it, just touched the elevator and she came up so nice, about then a gust of wind hit so I hit the down elevator and my plane disappeared beneath the surface of the lake:eek: like an Olympic swimmer. It rose slowly to the surface, I waited a minute then tried the motor and it spun to life and I drove it back to me, and took it to the shop to dry out. All seems well. Well all of the blue tape came off and so did all of my tape hinges:confused:. We have been using this clear Hockey stick tape to tape down hatches on FE boats and it is super sticky but comes off clean, haven't had a hatch leak even when it was upside down while I paddled out to get it.
I put a coat of WBPU on the hinge areas maybe that will help.
Later;
John

Oh man! I wish I had been there to see that! You didnt happen to get any video did you?

You do know that new flyers are required (by LAW! Really!) to video all their goofs and post them for us to see :D We promise not to laugh - too hard ;)

Sounds like you got lucky actually. As a boat racer, Im sure you know how much damage a water crash can cause.

I usually use Blenderm medical tape for foamy hinges and its held up well on the dozen or so water foamies Ive done so far. Your splash-in was probably a little too violent. If you were holding down elevator the force of hitting the water may have just ripped them loose.

I have to tell you though that the Polaris may not be the best choice for a new pilot.

It does not have the kind of self righting stability that a good trainer has. Its point and shoot. It goes exactly where you point it and wont save you from mistakes. You need to fly it all the time. Its also very responsive and quick to react to controll inputs.

I would rate it an intermediate to advanced flyer because of those things and its speed.

On the other hand, I cant think of any trainers that could have saved you from diving into the water like that and most of them would NOT have survived it either :)

Larry3215
07-01-2009, 08:56 AM
Just to show you we ALL screw up - here are some shots of what happened to me this last weekend at a float fly. There were probably 30 pilots there watching me plus a large crowd of spectators on the beach.

The spectators got a big kick out of it too. My wife caught these shots :D

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104467&stc=1&d=1246434918

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104468&stc=1&d=1246434918

Larry3215
07-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Ha ha ha a Polaris as a submarine. Hmmmm that's mixed up. Yeah Larry we're still tryin to use a motor we already have on James's. The new Chinese motor tho is 1750Kv. The recomended Grayson is about $40 and the new Turnigy is only $18. If it comes close to an Axi 2808 it should do O K. I know you don't care for the Chinese stuff guess we'll see.

Its not so much the stuff (although you're right about that) as the people who are selling it. Its the way they do business and that the money is going directly over seas.

I realize Ive lost that battle though so dont let me bother you :)

Be honest though - you know it wont be close to the Axi :D

Fviking
07-01-2009, 11:44 PM
Hi Chellie;
Lovely to hear from you. :)
The goal for that boat was 50mph, it has trim tabs set just right, and on that run the strut was very close to perfect. I can get it to settle down, but at the cost of speed, the more boat in the water the more drag the slower it goes. Basically all I want in the water is the prop and the rudder and perhaps a tiny bit of the hull by the transom to keep it straight.
I made 49.4mph on another run, fall was upon us and testing stopped.:D
John

Fviking
07-02-2009, 03:02 AM
Hey Larry;
I haven't mastered the stick radio yet and you expect me to run the video camera too ???:roll:
If you look at my videos on Utube in one I am driving my RC boat riding in my son's boat, and recording with the video camera at the same time, Not Bad !?! But that was a wheel radio.
I have been flying for a few months and graduated to aileron planes some time ago. The trouble is all the available fields are covered with kids playing some type of ball gave untill almost dark every night except Sunday night. But I live on a lake ::o looks like a big flat open space with trees on 2 sides Perfect for flying,or fast electric boats. The Polaris looked to me like the answer to my prayers, part boat, part plane :cool: a no brainer.
Tube Channel "Fviking1" there will be plane videos soon.
John

CHELLIE
07-02-2009, 03:28 AM
Hi Chellie;
Lovely to hear from you. :)
The goal for that boat was 50mph, it has trim tabs set just right, and on that run the strut was very close to perfect. I can get it to settle down, but at the cost of speed, the more boat in the water the more drag the slower it goes. Basically all I want in the water is the prop and the rudder and perhaps a tiny bit of the hull by the transom to keep it straight.
I made 49.4mph on another run, fall was upon us and testing stopped.:D
John

Ok, I was just wondering :D I had a real 18 FT Southwind cabin cruiser, and it had a small out board engine on it, and the bow was always running high in the water, and it was slow, i made some trim taps for it out of aluminum, and that really helped it, in the ocean, it was fast, even the daycruisers, with there v 8 motors, could not keep up with me :D Ok I had a V Hull, that helps in the ocean vs a flat bottom :Q :D ;-) i had a lot of fun with that boat, went deep sea fishing in it, and the dang sharks are as long as the boat was, one time my friend was sitting on the bow of the boat, with his feet over the edge, he caught a big fish, and the fish pulled him into the water :Q :Q :Q that was funny, he did not drink so much beer after that, he caught the fish too ;-) Take care, Chellie

CHELLIE
07-02-2009, 03:36 AM
Hi Larry, I hate that when that happens, in front of a lot of people :red: I had my Giant Bi Plane at The Western States Electric fun fly, and I pined my ailerons on the lower wing, so they will stay straight during storage, Yes, I for got to remove the pins ::o try to fly the plane with the ailerons pined, 2 1/2 mins of shear terror, I made a soft crash landing, broke off the tip of a wing, thats about all the damage, except for a brused Ego :D Take care, Chellie

Alpea42
07-02-2009, 03:42 AM
I was spotting for her and the part I'll always remember was the pilot next to us called out , "DO YOU NEED HELP!!!"

Larry3215
07-02-2009, 03:46 AM
LOL

Reminds me of the first time a little girl at the grocery store asked me if I needed help getting my one bag of groceries out to my car!!! :D

It actually doesnt bother me much any more crowd or no crowd. That part of my ego took so many hits over the years it shriveled up and died ;)

Fviking
07-02-2009, 01:45 PM
Hi Chellie;
Absolutely correct trim tabs will to that.:)It would have been easier to adjust your outboard so the prop was closer to the transom, if you had any trim left. Usually just pull a rod out of the motor mounting bracket and move it to a lower hole ( one nearer to the transom ). So the prop kind of tucks under. I hate to see boats run like that, we call it Maximum wake and Maximum fuel consumption . The 18' flats skiff I had when I lived in Key West had power trim on the motor And power trim tabs :ws: sweet ! She would to 44mph, in anything over a foot of water on plane.
I am putting a new drive motor in "Viking 1", just playing, I think I will turn it into my daily runner, The fifth hull I pulled from that mold is much lighter I may rig that for speed. I did a wild paint job on it, I am just waiting for nice weather to clearcoat it. Rain rain go away, and stay away for a while !
John

Fviking
07-02-2009, 11:53 PM
Hi Larry;
I did it again, turned my plane into a submarine, and got away with it. I managed some fast taxiing, that's fun. I think I'll hook up the rudder and throttle to a wheel radio and just have fun taxiing:rolleyes: Yea Right.
**"I usually use Blenderm medical tape for foamy hinges and its held up well on the dozen or so water foamies Ive done so far. Your splash-in was probably a little too violent. If you were holding down elevator the force of hitting the water may have just ripped them loose."*** I put blenderm on my hinges and they seem to have survived the dunking today.
***"I have to tell you though that the Polaris may not be the best choice for a new pilot. "*** Now you tell me:roll:. I went to the lake and got the plane into the air, it did a steady 30' climb all the way across the lake, just before the tree line I got it into a high alfa stall and headed for the water from tree top height ( that's 90 to 100' here) CRASH. That was the strangest flight I have ever made !! That plane did things I have never seen before ! Broke the tail Pilon off at the wing, the epoxy is setting now.
This Spectrum DX6i when you put -Expo on the controlls, WOW what a ride :red: I'll try +Expo tomorrot, maybe that will help
John

Fviking
07-02-2009, 11:58 PM
I MEAN - NEGATIVE MEANS LESS RIGHT?
And + means more doesn't it. So - Expo is less control--right ???? Wrong !!!!!!!!!!:mad:
No Video that would have been worth a good laugh.
John

Alpea42
07-03-2009, 12:49 AM
My son says you use + expo on spectrum. You want the sensitivity to be less around the center of the stick, but to move more at the extremes.We use about 60-75% on models where we have a lot of travel. It makes for smoother control. Maybe you need to try flying subs. Our Polaris is flyin great now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgKlzslCu0E And just to confess I screw the pooch occasionally watch this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEt1tGBDtpw&feature=channel

Larry3215
07-03-2009, 01:01 AM
LOL Great story!

Im not sure how the Spectrum tx's work on that. With Futaba you dial in - expo to tame things down. Spectrum may be just the opposite. If you had it backwards then yeah, you would have had a wild ride for sure!

If your going to stick with that plane, let me make a few suggestions.

1)RTFM on the Spectrum manual and adjust the expo to tame down the controls around center stick - elevator and aileron for sure. Id recommend you start about 50%. You can probably leave rudder alone.
2)Adjust the surfaces so you have no more throw on elevator/aileron than Steve recommends - maybe even a bit less. Rudder again can be left as is or if anything get it to maximum. You need lots of rudder to turn on the ground/water.
3)Make sure the CG is exactly where Steve recommends. His CG is very safe and still allows the plane to fly well.

4)This is the most important one of all - don't fly at full throttle! If your weight is even half way close to recommended it will take off and fly easily at 1/2 throttle. It will probably stay in the air at even lower throttle settings. If you have to use more throttle to get it off the water, imediately back off to 1/2 stick and fly it as slowly as you can. It will still be moving right along but far slower than at full throttle.

The slower it flys, the longer you have to make corrections and keep it in the air. The faster you fly the faster you get into trouble :D

Use slow, easy, gentle, stick movements. If you yank the stick, the Polaris will do exactly what you tell it to do and it will be all over the place.

5)Take off and land directly into the wind. Preferably - do not fly in any wind at all.

6)Get a different plane to learn on :D

Sense you live on a lake and at the risk of bragging, Id recommend building one of my Capricorns.

They are hands down the best handling, easiest to fly hydro/water/all terrain plane around. They will fly at a walking speed and they have built in hands off stability. Properly set up, you can get up hi, cut the throttle and set your tx down on the ground and it will land itself. They are easier to build and repair than a Polaris too.

They dont LOOK nearly as cool as a Polaris and they dont fly nearly as fast, but they will do maneuvers a Polaris cant do. Once you get the hang of it, you can fly one indoors or out or in hi winds or in half a basket ball court. Once you get a little more used to it you can increase throws, move the cg back and it will do some amazing stuff.

Larry3215
07-03-2009, 01:07 AM
Forgot the link.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26120

Fviking
07-03-2009, 02:23 AM
Hey Alpea42;
Your son is correct on the Spectrum more is less:Q
I had the expo turned up by 50% it was like trying to ride a bucking bronco.
I re read the manual, Thanks for the heads up.

Larry3215;
I destroyed a couple of high wing trainers and have built others, They are nice if the Tree Monsters don't get them:silly: and the slowstick is a Hoot. I was making foam floats for one of my high wings when I discovered the twinkle and then the Polaris. I'll drag someone off their front porch tomorrow if the wind is down to Video this next flight. It should be easy after today. Right:D
Steve recomends 40% expo and the throws are as he recomends, I have already learned that lesson, And the CG is right where he says too.
I get so excited on take off that I forget to throttle back, but I am working on it.
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I have foam! I think I'll look at your Capricorn
John

Larry3215
07-03-2009, 04:38 AM
Good luck and may the wind gods and the submarine gods be with you!!

Fviking
07-04-2009, 03:51 AM
Hi All;
I have out done myself. This trip to the lake was short and Not sweet.
I think I shot myself in the foot again. I wanted this to be nice and smooth, so I put a gyro on the ailerons, that thing was so sensitive that the pounding across the water screwed it alllll up and when I hit up it said " Inverted ? " and that was the end of that flight.
Good News;:ws:
My son got the whole thing on Video. I have uploaded it to the tube and you all can get a chuckle here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBnJUS-WiqY Enjoy!
I shall try again, everything seems to be working OK believe it or not.
John

Alpea42
07-04-2009, 04:55 AM
John, you are making this way harder than it should be. But it is entertaining :D. Looks like the gyro flipped it over. Mine takes off in 20 yards and with 1/2" up and down travel on the ailerons and about that on elevator. And about 1" each way on rudder and balanced at the step in the hull. It flys steady and predictable you don't wanna bank too steep when you turn and you have to pull a little up elevator in the turn and when you're done turning you have to give opposit stick to straighten back to level. But really these fly fairly easily. If I were you I would find an open grass area to practice over. The crashes into water are eventually gona ruin your radio gear.

Larry3215
07-04-2009, 06:59 AM
Ouch! Thanks for the video though :)

Looking at the video, it looks like it was trying to roll to the right earlier in the run when you first gave it full throttle. Some gyros cant take much vibration.

I wonder if maybe you had it oriented the wrong way and it was reacting to pitch instead roll? Did you have the label pointed towards the nose? Might have just had the direction reversed too. Those are very easy mistakes to make.
So far it looks like your Polaris is taking the punishment very well :)

Did you treat your electronics with CorrosionX or are you trusting to the hull integrity?

Fviking
07-04-2009, 01:00 PM
Hi Alpea42;
You got it ! When I watched it that is the same thing I saw. I am pretty sure it was the gyro mis behaving.
'
Hey Larry;
It was the gyro. I had the label so you could read it from the starboard wing. Worked beautiful in the shop. When you tilted the plane the aileron would go up on the wing I moved up. I guess those things are not for seaplanes.
I did the ESC with conformal epoxy and the receiver with Corrosion block I ordered some corrosion X last night from OSE.
John

Larry3215
07-05-2009, 06:01 PM
Interesting, on all the gyros Ive used, a line drawn down through the center of the label represents the axis of rotation of the controlled surface.

So if your stabilizing rudder or the tail on a heli for example, the label faces UP or DOWN.

For elevator it would face right side or left side.

For aileron, it would face forward or backward.

There is no law saying all gyros have to be built that way, so yours could be different. What brand is it?

Alpea42
07-06-2009, 01:24 AM
Here's the latest video of Steve flying James's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llnYRuTa4Xs

Larry3215
07-06-2009, 01:47 AM
It flys nice!

On mine, to stop those bouncing landings, it works best to hold the nose up more and let it slow down and land in almost a harrier attitude. You dont want the nose way up in the air, but a little above above level. Its dead stable with the nose up so no worries there. You can land it really slooooow if you hold the nose up more and keep a little power on all the way down.

Alpea42
07-06-2009, 01:59 AM
Yeah I've got the proper speed and AofA technique for landing . But this was Steve's 1st flight with it.

Fviking
07-06-2009, 02:41 AM
Hi Larry;
The gyro is a turnigy, the line is left to right for orientation. Here is a link to it on Hobby king http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6755&Product_Name=Turnigy_TG-380_Aeroplane_Gyro_(Channel_Controlled)
I had it installed correctly, It didn't like the water. Oh well.
John

Fviking
07-10-2009, 03:34 AM
The continuing saga of my Polaris;
I took it to the park, early when the dew was still on the grass. She skips right along and lifts off smoothly, turns nice and floats down when you cut the power just before landing.
I was feeling rather good so I took her up again, the playing field is ringed with Maple trees, you guessed it :eek: I stuck it in the very top of one of the trees. I couldn't reach the bottom most branch so I drove my Jeep across the field under the tree and started to climb. About half way up the tree, where the branches were getting rather slim it occurred to me that I am over 60 years old and have no business climbing trees. I managed to get down without killing my self and went to town to the LHS for parts.
No one was there to tell it was my plane, when I came back just before noon to tell someone, I walked over to the tree from parking, about half way there I saw my plane sitting on the ground under the tree :D. The nose was crumpled up ( I used Pink foam for just that ) two of the servos were stripped. I know metal gears, I bought some at the LHS that morning. Light foam damage easily repaired. I'll try again tomorrow, maybe things would be nicer if I pulled back on the left stick:rolleyes: just a little.
John

Larry3215
07-10-2009, 07:39 AM
You get 3 stars for persistance at least! :D

Yeah, maybe just a little back on that left stick ;)

Fviking
07-18-2009, 12:14 AM
My Polaris V1 wasn't a great success, or perhaps it was me. Anyway I began Polaris V2 before V1s demise. I added 2" to the leading edge of the wing, this increased wing area by about 25% lowering wing loading and making it possible to slow down I built the tail 1/2" taller to get clearance for and 8" prop, added a little to the rudder, put all servos on top of the wing, everything else stock.
I put a 2826 Turnigy 1650Kv outrunner swinging an 8"X3.5E prop on 1550mAh 3S Lipo.
She takes off nice, slows down to half throttle speed handles nice. All in All a nice plane I hope to enjoy for the rest of the summer.
John Lake Zoar, CT.

Larry3215
07-18-2009, 12:26 AM
Congrats John!

Nice looking Polaris too :)

Alpea42
07-18-2009, 03:48 AM
Glad to hear V-2 is flying good John. I love flying ours

Fviking
07-20-2009, 11:20 PM
I got my son up early Sat and we got a couple of flights in before the wind came up. Just enough cloud cover to hide the sun which was just clearing the trees to the right.
The first thing I did was flip the plane taxiing, out came the canoe by the time we got to the plane the elevator servo was wet. That made flying interesting at random times the servo would give me full up elevator. When I ask my son what that sound was and we say tape, for some reason none of the tape would stick to that WBPU :confused:. the sound turned out to be a hatch I cut over the servos to replace one. The battery hatch came off and the pressure from the incoming air blew the other one through the prop. We found the battery hatch but not a piece of the servo hatch.
Here it is Polaris V2 , Scene 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNWJudVcJWw]

Larry3215
07-21-2009, 12:28 AM
Considering the psychotic elevator servo, it wasnt flying badly at all :)

Fviking
07-22-2009, 10:23 PM
Hi Larry;
It flies great, and it looks so cool in the air. I got up this morning, nice calm day flying was good. It was overcast, for now I like it, no sun in the eyes.
I have 3 videos on Tube for you entertainment some funny stuff like that sick elevator servo. It seemed OK today:)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Dickieeng
John

Fviking
08-31-2009, 01:43 AM
Hey Larry;
I had the maden flight of my Flying W this morning, got it near trimed. This evening I flew it again after trimming the tail feathers to a semblance of the Evolution.
It flies Great, I got it to fly so slow you could walk along with it, if you could walk on water, I was flying from the lake.:D
My modified Polaris died this last week a control horn came loose on the aileron and when I asked for left it went right, right into a tree about 50' up. I had the rudder linked to the ailerons but going the other way trying to fly knife edge. Got it down a couple days later, too smashed for glue. The new one is about 3/4 done. Way off the original, 40" wing span, KF airfoil in the shape of a flat bottmed airfoil.
Any way, you can see my FlyingW being built at www.How2RC.com (http://www.How2RC.com) Capricorn Build and the Polaris on the Heron Project multiple Videos of both and other stuff.
Check it out;
John

Larry3215
08-31-2009, 06:38 PM
Hi John, Nice job on the website! I only had time to take a quick look but it looks like you put a lot of work into it. Good luck on the new build!!!

Fviking
09-01-2009, 05:34 PM
Here is the maiden flight of my Capricorn, we are on Lake Zoar in CT. USA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB8Xr26MEVAMy camera man usually does a better job.:roll:

Larry3215
09-01-2009, 11:27 PM
LOL I loved that last landing/bounce/catch!!

Nice maiden! Looks like it flys great.

You managed to avoid the "maiden event" that has plagued so many with this model. Well done!

What are you using for a power system and whats your all up weight?

Fviking
09-02-2009, 01:36 AM
Hi Larry;
I thought you would like the bounce catch, of course I planned that:roll:.
I have a Turnigy 2410-8 890kv,rated at 109 watts, I got it for my Slow Stick and never put it on. The prop is a GWS 11X8 also for the SS. A Turnigy 30A Plush ESC and a 1300mAh Rino LiPo. It sure isn't over powered but still will take off in 20' on water.
My son said "how slow can you fly it" then he said "that's cheating you are hanging it on the prop" and thats fun. Motor comes in hot, battery slightly warm and ESC stone cold. Next motor I have is a Tower Pro 2409-12D 1600kv rated at 200watts, so maybe that when I get bored going slow.;-)
Oh Yea, all up weight is 22oz and add 5oz for the battery so 27oz, she is 32" long, leading edge to trailing of elevons and 28" wide. I put a piece of 30lb test Stainless cable (fishing leader used for Baracuda) between the floats to keep them from spreading, works gerat.
Fun plane; Thanks
John

AirmanAirhead
09-05-2009, 03:02 PM
I hope this is OK to post this here. Here's a blended video of my friend's Sea Wind, and my Polaris at a local lagoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Dys9pzX_s[/url][URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Dys9pzX_s

Larry3215
09-05-2009, 05:29 PM
No problem :)

That video shows me the Polaris is the better flyer and better water plane of the two by a good bit!

CHELLIE
09-05-2009, 10:07 PM
I hope this is OK to post this here. Here's a blended video of my friend's Sea Wind, and my Polaris at a local lagoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Dys9pzX_shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Dys9pzX_s

Great Video, The polaris was very smooth off the water, Both planes flew well, the polaris was smoother landing too, at the end of the video, it looked like Aliens were trying to shoot the polaris down with particle beams, but it just shruged them off and continued to Fly :D ;-) Take care, Chellie

AirmanAirhead
09-06-2009, 12:50 AM
Great Video, The polaris was very smooth off the water, Both planes flew well, the polaris was smoother landing too, at the end of the video, it looked like Aliens were trying to shoot the polaris down with particle beams, but it just shruged them off and continued to Fly :D ;-) Take care, Chellie

Chellie, you are so wise! Not many people know about the Aliens and the particle beams around here! I didn't mean for that to get in the video, but it was too late. Most people don't believe in ...;-)

AirmanAirhead
09-06-2009, 12:54 AM
Great Video, The polaris was very smooth off the water, Both planes flew well, the polaris was smoother landing too, at the end of the video,

By the way, when I land the Polaris more smoothly than shone in the video, it really scoots across the water. When I'm approaching the beach, if it is an extra smooth landing, it actually runs up on the beach a bit. Of course smushy landings (which I'm quite good at) slow things down a bit. What a fun plane to fly!

Fviking
09-18-2009, 10:40 PM
Hi Larry;
I am enjoying my Capricorn almost nightly, the other night I had 3 boats stopped watching me fly. Thanks again for a great plane.
I thought i would tell you about my new Polaris W/mods. The fuse is stretched 2", I made the wings 39" tip to tip and the tips are normal size. I put a KF airfoil step on the wing just for fun, it also strengthed those long wings. The wing now has 5.15 Sq' this makes the wing loading, 7.18 oz per Sq' down from the stock 8.4oz. I hope to maiden her Sat with my son taking videos.
John

Fviking
09-20-2009, 01:11 AM
Not a great video but it went well. It flies well, I am very pleased.
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic4pCqT3Nxs

Larry3215
09-20-2009, 02:10 AM
Nicely done John! Thats a good looking version and it looks like it flys well.

I think you're a little nose heavy. If you fix that, maybe it will help on those landings a tad ;)

Nose heavy planes dont slow down as well and are more subject to elevator stalls at low speeds.

I like it!

AirmanAirhead
11-20-2009, 02:36 AM
Here's a bit of an updated video of my Polaris and my friend flying his Sea Wind (he buzzes a fountain). I included a couple of surface slides of my Polaris, one I almost go over. In the end, the Sea Wind crashes on low powered take off. Out with the rescue boat! We nick named it the Blue Fork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrM5vBop8Y&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrM5vBop8Y&feature=channel)

Son of Paleface
11-20-2009, 03:17 AM
Hey , thats really well done , one of the best vids Ive seen , great editing to the music and vis effects
Good one Jeff

Ian

AirmanAirhead
11-20-2009, 03:41 AM
Thanks Ian. I enjoy making the videos, almost as much as I like to fly! I said "almost" because I REALLY like to fly!

Jeff

Larry3215
11-20-2009, 05:20 AM
Very nicely done Jeff!!!

I like the blue fork!

You using a reversible brushed motor on that thing? Great idea!

AirmanAirhead
11-20-2009, 05:33 AM
Thanks Larry,

We've used the "Blue Fork" a lot more than we'd like to admit. After wading into a civic center lagoon for my friend's plane we decided we needed a rescue boat. It's not failed us yet. The only thing it didn't retrieve was when the Sea Wind's motor broke off and sank! I guess we could drag a magnet;-)

Jeff

Larry3215
11-20-2009, 07:02 AM
It just occured to me your fork is similar to the rescue boat I came up with way back during the Hydro craze.

It had a regular brushless motor on it and didnt work nearly as well as your does. Being able to back up would be a huge asset.

I got mine stuck in weeds several times trying to rescue downed flyers too close to shore.

I also found that mine didnt have enough stearing authority in many cases. if the downed plane was up-side down with the rudder under water it was often impossible to stear a straight course!

AirmanAirhead
11-20-2009, 04:37 PM
Hey Larry, yours looks way cooler though!

We got the idea for the "fork" design off the internet somewhere. We also added a water rudder that can be pivoted up if the water is too shallow, but it steers much better with it than without.

Originally we had two air rudders, but it seemed to steer better with just one. Yes, the reverse option works great. (brushed out of a car set up I think) Thanks to my LHS buddy. He has "endless" resources for this kind of stuff. I'm not crazy about the boogie board foam. It's pretty heavy. But I just remind myself it's a rescue boat not a race boat. And much better than going for a swim!

Jeff

Son of Paleface
11-20-2009, 08:30 PM
Yeah , I had one years ago with a large wire hook out each side (regular model boat) with a brushed motor with reverse and a larger water rudder right behind the prop , very effective
Ian

adrenalinplan
01-02-2010, 06:22 PM
I am either crazy, senile or I have a "serious condition" of some sort. Thats what my wife says anyway :)

Im part way thru the build on a Phase3 F16, Im part way thru a build of a new giant scale foamie Yak (for the contest), Im part way thru the build on a giant scale foamie Extra/Edge thing, I havent finished repairing the nose gear on my FlyFly F86 and my Mega Capricorn still needs a paint job.

You would think I had more than enough RC related projects to keep me busy over the winter!

Here is the problem. I saw a new F-16 by RC Lander that really caught my eye. Then I saw they had an F9F that was pretty cool too. Then I saw they had a Rafale twin EDF! I wanted ALL of them but cant really afford any of them at the moment. While I was reading up on them, all trying to decide on which one to get (Come on honey, its a really cool airplane and they all have retracts! We dont realy NEED that new carpet just yet do we?).

Then when I had it almost figured out, (the F16 is winning by a hair) I saw a post by TheDon about a twin SR-71 - with retracts!!!! And its cheep!!! (hear that honey?)

While I was going nuts over all those choices - and realizing I couldnt really afford to do any of them at the moment I ran across a thread started by Jetset44 (Steve Schumate of Park Jets fame) about a new sea plane of his called the Polaris.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=922465&pp=100

The Polaris based on the old Laddie Mikulasco (sp?) North Star which I built waaaaaaaay back in the old days. Great model!

I also built a much smaller version a year or 2 ago I called the Sparkle.

Recently Ive been into much larger giant scale foamies and it occured to me that this plan form would lend itself well to a giant scale version.

On top of that, I have most everything Id need to get it in the air just laying around ready to go.

So... thats what Im going to do next. I'll wait to save up some more $$ and see more flight reviews of those jets down the road. All the other stuff is going back in the boxes and up in the rafters and Im cleaning off my bench! Well... Im going to clean off a few things anyway ;)

We are snowed in at the moment so I'll start cutting foam as soon as I scale off some rough sketches.

It will end up aprox 80" long with about a 60" span with removable wings. Power will be 6S A123 pack driving a Mega 22/30/3 direct drive into a 12" prop. Should be in the 900-1000 watt range and pretty fast top speed. All up weight should end up in the 5 to 7 pound range but I almost always come in heavier than my predictions :)

One other plus point on this one is it will be able to fly off snow along with my Capricorns and none of the jets will do that!

For those who cant wait - here is a video of its second flight!

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Here is the first serious water flight of the big Polaris.

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Hi Larry 3215,

I write you of France. Splendid your polaris xxl. We are going to construct one with a member of my club. Be able you to say to me the characteristics of the servos which you use?

Regards

Olivier

Larry3215
01-05-2010, 05:34 AM
Hi Larry 3215,

I write you of France. Splendid your polaris xxl. We are going to construct one with a member of my club. Be able you to say to me the characteristics of the servos which you use?

Regards

Olivier

Hello Oliver,

I used all digital servos with 90in/ounce of torque or more.

Let me go back and see if I can find the exact model numbers.

Larry3215
01-05-2010, 05:47 AM
Hi Oliver,

From my notes it looks like I used Hitec HS5645 servos on the elevons and HS 5625's for elevator and rudder.

Post pictures of your progress and keep us posted!

Larry

adrenalinplan
01-05-2010, 01:49 PM
Hi Larry,

Ok for servos. What thickness makes the styrofoam which you use for Polaris XXL and how link to you the servos of elevons? We are uniting the different materials. They will post photographs...

Larry3215
01-06-2010, 01:43 AM
Look back through the thread for most of the build details you need.

Most of the plane is made from 1/2" thick blue foam. Its made by Dow and sold in 1/2" x 4' x 8' sheets over here. The vertical tail section is a mix of plywood and 6mm Depron.

You will need aluminum arrow shafts and carbon arrow shafts that just fit inside the aluminum shafts. Use them for the spars.

air4prs
02-14-2010, 04:06 PM
Just finished my first Polaris from 6 mm. depron. It came out with A.U.W. of 27 oz. with a 3s 2250 mah 25c lipo using the standard motor set up. With all the snow here in Ohio I haven't flown it yet, I don't have a 4 wheeler in order to get to the top of a large hill where our club field is.
What is a good Cg to start with and what control setups should be set to.

Paul

Larry3215
02-14-2010, 09:09 PM
Nicely done Paul!

If you built it from Steves plans, then the CG needs to be right on or just slightly ahead of the step on the bottom of the hull.

Once you get some confidense with it and are comfortable with big throws on the surfaces, you can move the cg well behind the step. DONT start off there though. It will be very sensitive especially in pitch.

For throws, it depends on your skill level, but I would start with about 30 degrees of throw on everything.

The secrete to slow flight is the left stick. Dont just move the throttle to full blast and leave it there :)

Its a good flyer but it will go exactly where you point it so you have to fly it all the time.

Good luck!!

crash-rc
02-17-2010, 10:15 PM
Larry3215, you need to bing your polaris over here to the east side of the state, we are having a 3 day floatfly I believe 5/21-23/10. It will be 10 miles south or Othello, WA at Scootney Reservior will be more info comming in an other month or so in the contest section of Modelaircraft mag. Would love to see your large Polaris fly.

Larry3215
02-18-2010, 02:34 AM
Hi crash-rc,

I almost made it out to your event last year but stuff came up at the last minute. I do plan to be there this year. I'll be bringing my Mega Capricorn as well. They make a good pair :)

I took the motor out of the big Polaris and have it in my Raptor heli at the moment. It will be easy enough to put it back come float season though :)

crash-rc
02-18-2010, 04:51 AM
Larry there is going to be two events this year the one in the spring then the third annual event in the fall which I believe is Aug 27-29. Hope to see you at one of them, I plan on trying to make a few events on your side this year.

AirmanAirhead
04-11-2010, 04:48 PM
Step Question on Polaris,

My flying buddy has a Polaris that he's been flying for quite a while. It's had it's fair share of crack ups etc. Yesterday he noticed it wouldn't get up on step to take off. The motor seems fine, control surfaces normal, but the one change that he made was he added tape to the bottom, but in such a way that the step is now rounded out almost like a slope rather than a clean 90 degree step. Could that cause a vortex of some sort and not allow the plane to get up on step like it normally would?

That seems to be the only change he's made since he last flew it.

Thoughts?

Jeff

Larry3215
04-11-2010, 05:23 PM
Yeah, thats the problem. The step absolutely must be a clean, sharp 90 degree break. The corner needs to be as sharp as possible with no rounding.

Any rounding of that lower corner will cause the water to cling to the bottom of the hull and stay attached all along the length. That sucks the plane down onto the water and can even prevent take off completely.

Its very important to keep the bottom side corners ahead of the step sharp for the same reason. If you dont, the water will climb up the sides of the hull and also make take offs much more dificult.

You want the water to break away from the hull cleanly as you accelerate. Rounded corners prevent that from happening.

Larry3215
04-11-2010, 05:25 PM
The same thing applies to regular floats on a float plane or sea plane by the way. The step always has a sharp 90 degree corner.

AirmanAirhead
04-11-2010, 05:47 PM
Hey Larry! I was hoping you'd see this and respond, you're the man! I figured that must be the issue, but I didn't know why. Live and learn, eh?

Thanks,
Jeff

surfer dude
06-06-2010, 11:32 AM
Just finished my polaris. I have not had a chance to fly it yet, but I did a taxi test in the grass, with the wind blowing about 25mph, it accidentaly took off, got about 5' high, I chopped the power, and made a nice easy touch down. I think it was just streaching it's wings.:D

Larry3215
06-06-2010, 10:58 PM
Congrats on surviving the mini-maiden!

You're in for some fun times :)