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7car7
02-10-2009, 05:10 PM
Have you guys seen what's coming?

It's gorgeous! (for a foamy)

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL1950

http://www.e-fliterc.com/ProdInfo/LargeImages/EFL1950.jpg

I'm thinking I might have to sell my Jenny and get this one.

(then build a Pat Trittle 60 inch Jenny)

Kmot
02-10-2009, 05:17 PM
It does look nice. But darn if those E-Flite foam WWI jobs aren't so freakin' delicate! My Jenny has had to have numerous repairs from simply handling it in my shop. Squeeze it too hard when changing batteries and oops, there goes the sidewall crushed in again! The rudder had to be repaired and ultimately reinforced with thin wood, the plastic cowling has been CA'd in numerous cracks. These planes are just too fragile.

Or maybe I am just not gentle enough. :o

barmonkey
02-10-2009, 06:09 PM
Can't wait! It looks like the best yet in it's class...

7car7
02-10-2009, 06:17 PM
It does look nice. But darn if those E-Flite foam WWI jobs aren't so freakin' delicate! :o

Yep, they are delicate. Not near as tough as a Pico TM. I busted the tail of my Jenny just putting it in the car. But I guess that's the price you pay for arguably the most scale flying birds in this size range.

I honestly thought I was done with foamies, I just really like the balsa builds better. But shoot, that one is nice, and the build "time" for this one fits my schedule best these days!

Oh, and silver is my favorite color!

Can't wait! It looks like the best yet in it's class...

There are some nice details on this one for sure! Lovely.

degreen60
02-10-2009, 06:30 PM
Soooo many nice planes. I need lots more money. My Jenny flys real nice sence I made new tail feathers from pink foam sanded thinner using pull-pull controls. It was nice out yesterday with about 5-10 mph wind. It flew in that wind with no problems. I even learned to barrel roll it. My first rolls on a plane without ailerons. Maybe it flys so nice cause I repainted it blue and put NAVY on the sides and call it an N9.

7car7
02-10-2009, 06:42 PM
I'm really loving the scheme that this one is coming in, but it sure opens up a huge can of worms.

For those (like me) that have to have something different, check this page out. It would be SO easy to mod this plane. Need a German Eflite plane? Here you go.

http://www.bealmear.com/dawn_patrol/siemens_schuckart.htm

http://www.bealmear.com/dawn_patrol/images/sswd1_factory_flipped.jpg

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=72733&d=1216147700

degreen60
02-10-2009, 07:52 PM
Look here. http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_11.html

7car7
02-10-2009, 08:37 PM
That's a great link. I'm sure the gears are turning!

dbcisco
02-10-2009, 09:17 PM
Nice, but at $70 I could be getting a GP all-balsa DR1 for the same price.

scalercflyer
02-12-2009, 02:01 AM
I agree dbcisco! :) I happen to have a nice set of plans for a N11!:D Maybe I'll build it! But boy that Nieuport looks nice! BTW, where in PA are you? I live in South Jersey. Marty

dbcisco
02-12-2009, 03:11 AM
It does look nice and if I find it for under $50 I will probably get it.

Marty, I live about 15 miles north of Philly. Nice flying weather today except I was working :(

dai phan
02-12-2009, 02:57 PM
Hi all,

That's a nice addition to the Jenny and Se5a. However I wish Eflite would increase the size and make them a little bit bigger say 40ish WS. That would allow these to handle better in the wind. In anycase I would not do the loop as shown on the video because flying in NO wind puts way less stress than in 5 mph wind. Also it is 20 bucks more than the Jenny and that starts to make me a little uncomfortable. DP

7car7
02-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Hi all,

Also it is 20 bucks more than the Jenny and that starts to make me a little uncomfortable. DP


I'm curious as to where you're finding the Jenny for $49.00? It's $64.xx everywhere I've ever looked. USED to be $49, several months ago. This plane is only a couple dollars more.

I agree, anything over 50 for this or any foamy is too much, but considering some flat profile jobs are this much, well, look at what you're getting. Sharp looking plane.

dbcisco
02-12-2009, 04:34 PM
I got my Jenny at the LHS in August for $40. Eflite raised the MSRP a little while ago from $50 to $70. Not worth it IMHO.

dai phan
02-12-2009, 05:27 PM
I got my Jenny at the LHS in August for $40. Eflite raised the MSRP a little while ago from $50 to $70. Not worth it IMHO.

That's exactly what I am thinking. These are approaching Alfa Models price range. DP

dbcisco
02-12-2009, 07:07 PM
[quote=7car7;562921]...considering some flat profile jobs are this much... quote]

I can hardly believe that profile foamies are fetching more than $15.

7car7
02-12-2009, 07:26 PM
Sad but true...

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/images/dms892.jpg

$99.00 ARF.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/images/sfm234.jpg

$139.00

So, my point, compared to SOME, (quite a few really), any Eflite WWI plane is quite a bargain.

dbcisco
02-12-2009, 07:30 PM
So, we all agree that over priced things are a bargain compared to ridiculously priced things.????

7car7
02-12-2009, 07:48 PM
So, we all agree that over priced things are a bargain compared to ridiculously priced things.????


Exactly! Yep, they're all overpriced.

WWI Ace
02-13-2009, 12:15 AM
But Nieuports are too cool!!!!! Steve

doctorfunk67
02-13-2009, 09:26 PM
I'm sold on the scale feature of the "rotary" motor myself.

rhino
02-13-2009, 10:49 PM
yeah nice little n 17!

Kmot
02-20-2009, 05:38 PM
Video about this is up on Youtube now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ina5dcoWJdc

Sabrehawk
02-24-2009, 03:36 PM
I just noticed this one at Horizon's site, and watched the video there too.
And when I do get another job(Laid off right now) im getting this one.

My Jenny is such a pleasure to fly and gets more comments and complements than my Christen Eagle most of the time. Even though the Jenny cant dance like the CE, the Jenny can land sooooo gently and slow it gets everyone's attention as it's coming in and then ever so lightly touches down at a crawl.

I should be into another job and apartment by the time it releases(I'd better be anyway) and have some new places to fly wherever I end up at.
Most likely in Bellevue at the momment.

02yamahablaster
05-23-2009, 02:04 AM
So has anyone had a chance to fly the Nieuport? I ordered mine from the local hobby shop but its on backorder for another week :mad:

dbcisco
05-23-2009, 04:35 AM
They have one at the LHS, but at $70 it is a bit too much right now. Will hopefully get a Sig Fokker ($40 new w/shipping) end of the month.

degreen60
07-28-2009, 04:17 PM
I bought 2 of the Eflite Nieuports that had shipping damage. Here are some of the mods I made to the first one I finished. I made a foam holder for the servos and mounted then under the battery hatch. I changed the controls to pull-pull. Mounted the receiver(using masking tape seen in the picture) and ESC under the cowl. Saved enough weight on the tail the battery now mounts under the open hatch and does not need to be pushed forward under the cowl. Drilled holes in the forward cabane struts and run the forward landing wires from the holes to the bottom of the wing struts. Drilled 2 holes in the forward fuselage former and run the forward flying wires from the top of the wing struts to the holes. Makes the brace wire more scale like. I painted the bottom of all flying surfaces. Why do they come with just the top painted when it is the bottom that is see the most when flying. Used a $6 AX-2306N motor mounted with a stick mount screwed to the bottom motor mount plywood former. Uses 2s lipo with 7x6 prop. It flys SLOW even on full throtle. Not much speed change from power off to full throtle just climbs more. My Jenny with the same setup has a lot more speed change. I think the wider fuselage on the Nieuport has a lot more drag. I do not have as much dihedral in the wings as the manual calls for but it still flys great. I do see the bottom wing is bowed between the fuselage and the outer strut. I will make a groove in the bottom of the wing and glue bamboo skewers in them to keep the wing straight. I will be making a vacuform pilot for it too. Then it will be ready to go hunting.

dbcisco
07-28-2009, 05:52 PM
Nice review! You have 2? You'll have to paint one as a captured model so you can dogfight with them. ::o Not red though:blah:

degreen60
07-28-2009, 06:38 PM
Nice review! You have 2? You'll have to paint one as a captured model so you can dogfight with them. ::o Not red though:blah:

I am hoping to make the other one a "flying fish". Think it will drive me nuts trying to paint it?

dbcisco
07-28-2009, 06:51 PM
I am hoping to make the other one a "flying fish". Think it will drive me nuts trying to paint it?
That will be a sweet looking one of a kind plane, and authentic too!!!!
You have to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

degreen60
07-28-2009, 08:51 PM
I been thinking about how to do it. From the black and white it looks like scales are painted leaving the silver as dividing lines. It would have been easer to leave the scales silver and paint the dividing lines. At least the tail is dark lines on the silver. I think I will take one of the pictures and see if I can enlarge it to about the size of the model and use that as a guide.

dbcisco
07-28-2009, 10:00 PM
Choice of colors for the flying fishes has been debated for a long time with scalers and WWI aircraft historians. Gosh, they aren't even quite sure what shade of red to use on red Fokkers.:D

degreen60
07-28-2009, 10:07 PM
Choice of colors for the flying fishes has been debated for a long time with scalers and WWI aircraft historians. Gosh, they aren't even quite sure what shade of red to use on red Fokkers.:D

I bet very few of the red Fokkers were the same shade. Paints back them were not stable like they are now. I wonder if most of the red use was barn or boxcar red. I think that was probably the cheapest paint you could get is the reason it was used to paint barns and boxcars.

dbcisco
07-28-2009, 10:17 PM
Plus the fact that by 1916 resources were becoming scarce. I was just talking about the French FT-17 tank which had a wooden hub for the main gear to save iron! It was (duhh) unreliable. The Americans came with their own licensed version of the FT-17 which had an steel hub. It was (duhh again) much more reliable, although just as useless. Due to its small size it couldn't cross trenches (bang head on sandbag). I guess all the intelligent engineers were working on advances in aircraft and that left only morons working on ground technologies.:blah:

WWI Ace
07-28-2009, 11:00 PM
Cool work on those neiuports Degreen!!! Steve

dbcisco
07-28-2009, 11:37 PM
Just had a thought* for you Degreen. Do a couple styles on paper first to see which one is best. If you do it to the scale of you plane, you can temporarily attach it to the plane and see how it looks. That way you only paint the plane itself once.
*Actually I stole the idea from wife's mural painting techniques.

degreen60
07-29-2009, 12:29 AM
Just had a thought* for you Degreen. Do a couple styles on paper first to see which one is best. If you do it to the scale of you plane, you can temporarily attach it to the plane and see how it looks. That way you only paint the plane itself once.
*Actually I stole the idea from wife's mural painting techniques.

Good idea. I now have one side enlarged to the size of the plane. It gives me the size and shape of the scales. I think I will print if several times, paint the scales and see how it looks on the plane. I am hoping I can then trace it onto large masking tape, cut out the scales, paint several scales then move the tape. Hope one piece of tape will paint the fuselage so I dont have to cut several pieces of tape.

scalercflyer
07-30-2009, 12:49 AM
I like the idea of adding the bamboo spars. :) I might also recommend the use of packing tape (the kind with fiberglass threads in it) on the underside length of the both the upper and lower wings. :cool: I use this on my SE5a and it seems to work well. Fish scales on the fuse sides! :confused: What's next? A picture of a real Camel painted on the side of your Sopwith Degreen? :eek::D Marty

degreen60
07-30-2009, 02:10 AM
I have a fiber glass tape on the bottom wing of my Jenny someone else put on. The Nieuport don't seem to need it. I took it out tonight, did loops, barral rolls, and dives with quick climb out and the wings seem strong enough. I am using heaver thread than came with the plane. On the Jenny I snapped the brace wire and then the wing folded so I use strong thread now.

Was there a Sopwith Camel with a camel painted on it? Hmmm, lets see, my Sopwith has hump and tail, I just need to paint the head on the cowl, make landing gear look like legs, add second back leg or do I just say it is a 3 legged camel?

I know, instead of making my Nieuport like the real Nieuport flying fish I will make it a red snapper, that way I don't have to guess about color, I can use red. LOL

dbcisco
07-30-2009, 03:43 AM
Camels aren't as aerodynamic as fish. However, I've seen Lama's fly.

degreen60
07-30-2009, 01:13 PM
Here is the finished plane ready for dawn patrol on the western front.

The bamboo skews have straighten the lower wing and the pilot is installed.

Couple of comments about the kit. I happened to look at a Nieuport 11 and its front brace wires are run like the kit, not to the back of the cowl like a 17. The instruction tell you to pull the brace wires tight till there is 5 5/8 inches under the lower wing at the front edge where the outer brace is to get the correct dihedral. Mine has only 4 3/4 inches under the wing and it still has 1 1/4 inches of dihedral. It looks like it has about the same or maybe a little more that the pictures I see of the model put out by Eflite. Mine flys great even in slight wind.

scalercflyer
08-02-2009, 04:58 AM
Very nice de. I'm liking it. BTW, where did you get the kit? I'm about to sell some radio/RX stuff and will be looking for something to spend it on. Of course the wife might not understand, but that never stopped me before!!! Marty

degreen60
08-02-2009, 11:16 AM
Very nice de. I'm liking it. BTW, where did you get the kit? I'm about to sell some radio/RX stuff and will be looking for something to spend it on. Of course the wife might not understand, but that never stopped me before!!! Marty

I bought 2 kits that had shipping damage for a little less than most places charge for 1 kit from an ebay seller. Where I bought them sells 2 kits with damage all the time. I don't think they have an Eflite Nieuport listed at this time. If you want the outfits name I can look and get it for you.

Wifes are kind of like that. Just tell her your thinking of taking up golf and lay catalogs around for her to see with prices in them, you know ones with a $3000 a year country club fee. LOL

dbcisco
08-02-2009, 03:47 PM
Get your wife involved in golf. She will never be able to complain again.

Golf: Pushing money down a hole with a stick.

RC Planes: Pushing sticks to try not to throw money at the ground.

scalercflyer
08-02-2009, 07:02 PM
Golf: not my idea of having fun.... hit the little white ball and chase it! :eek: BTW, my son works at the #1 golf course in the United States, Pine Valley Golf Course. Just thought I'd let you know. :D Marty

WWI Ace
08-02-2009, 07:10 PM
Yeah but you can't fly there because of all the trees!!!! Steve

dbcisco
08-02-2009, 07:38 PM
Yeah but you can't fly there because of all the trees!!!! Steve
Just think of it as organic pylon racing. :D

MS_in_NY
10-27-2009, 12:05 AM
Well, I just took my Nieuport out for it's first flights. Let me apologize up front for not having any pics or video.

I have to admit I nearly decided to tear it apart for a re-do before it's maiden. I put it together using heavier components than recommended and AUW is 11.6 ozs. And that's after downsizing the battery from 1000ma to 500ma 2S. I wasn't concerned about a little extra speed (she's gonna be an outdoor plane) but I didn't want to risk ripping the wings off.

The parts I used are...EXI 9g servos, had to open up the servo bay a bit to fit those in and they block off the carbon tube stick mount holes...Turnigy plush 12a esc, AR6110 rx, Dubro 2.5" wheels...and the real weight hog, a Suppo 2208-14 1450kv outrunner with an 8x4 APC prop (40g vs the 15g E-Flite 250). Also $15 vs $45. :) It's rated 100w but with the 500ma batts and 8x4 prop it draws 8-9A and 70w+ on a full charge.

To get it to balance I cut through the aft batt compartment bulkhead and pushed the 500ma batt through a perfectly sized slot so it rests on the bottom wing.

Bottom line, I'm glad I decided to test fly it first. It flys great. The low kv motor and 8x4 prop seem to keep the speed reasonable (didn't do any dives) and 70 watts is enough for straight up climbs. On one hamfisted takeoff I actually hung it on the prop for a second or three. I'm sure a proficient 3D flyer could work some moves with this plane.

The Dubro 2.5" wheels were "just" big enough for short grass takeoff and landing. I'm gonna swap them out for some 3 inchers (even though they look a little funny). That should make grass operation a piece of cake.

All in all a sweet little plane, even if it is a bit of a pain to build with non-E-Flite parts. :)


........Mike

degreen60
10-27-2009, 12:31 AM
I have to admit I nearly decided to tear it apart for a re-do before it's maiden. I put it together using heavier components than recommended and AUW is 11.6 ozs. And that's after downsizing the battery from 1000ma to 500ma 2S. I wasn't concerned about a little extra speed (she's gonna be an outdoor plane) but I didn't want to risk ripping the wings off.



This made me wonder what my Eflite "FLYING FISH" weight after the addition of the stickers and paint. I use a 900ma 2s. It weights 11oz and is a floater.

MS_in_NY
10-27-2009, 12:49 AM
This made me wonder what my Eflite "FLYING FISH" weight after the addition of the stickers and paint. I use a 900ma 2s. It weights 11oz and is a floater.

Yeah, I'm kinda new at this and 3 ozs overweight seemed like a lot to me. Like I said I'm glad I flew it before reducing the weight any more. I don't think I quite have the balance right yet. Hanging it from the Lewis gun (as per manual) is pretty coarse. A lot of pendulum effect and CG shifts don't cause much change in the way it hangs.

That's a very cool looking Nieuport, with a pilot even. :)

......Mike

degreen60
10-27-2009, 01:05 AM
That's a very cool looking Nieuport, with a pilot even. :)

......Mike

I got some pilots in kits that were made in 2 parts. I filled both halves with plaster and use them as masters to vacuum form more pilots. The ones I make are not as sharp detail as the orignal but at a distance look ok.

MS_in_NY
10-27-2009, 10:01 PM
As time passes since my test flights the other day I'm remembering little details of the Nieuport's performance.

At anything above 1/3 throttle it would start to climb and above half throttle it required down elevator to keep it from severely pitching up. I also "think" I remember needing to continuously nudge right rudder. My test flights were short and I spent most of the time just flying it but I did mess with the elevator trim a bit.

But, with down trim adjusted for level flight at 1/3-1/2 throttle I now remember needing lots of up elevator on the last landing approach.

Sooooo, reconsidering these details I've decided I don't have enough down/right thrust on the motor. I've increase it from 3 degrees to 5 degrees down and right. No chance to fly it yet.

Does that sound excessive? I'm thinking the relatively large and slow 8x4 prop probably has significant "thrust vector" effects on such a light plane.

Anybody know what the "built in" thrust angle is with the stock setup?

......Mike

degreen60
10-28-2009, 03:29 AM
But, with down trim adjusted for level flight at 1/3-1/2 throttle I now remember needing lots of up elevator on the last landing approach.

Sooooo, reconsidering these details I've decided I don't have enough down/right thrust on the motor. I've increase it from 3 degrees to 5 degrees down and right. No chance to fly it yet.

Does that sound excessive? I'm thinking the relatively large and slow 8x4 prop probably has significant "thrust vector" effects on such a light plane.

Anybody know what the "built in" thrust angle is with the stock setup?

......Mike

I did not use the recommended motor. I just kept adding down thrust until I have a slight climb on WOT and level with throtle off but at flying speed. I have enough down thrust the plastic engine supplied with the model set a such an angle when attached to the motor is did not look good. So I took it off the motor and attached it to the cowl. I raised and moved the motor off center until the motor shaft is in the center of the cowl.

MS_in_NY
10-28-2009, 04:57 AM
Yeah, I offset the motor to keep the prop shaft centered but the outrunner bell sits flush with the face of the cowling so the fake radial won't even fit glued to the cowl. I don't care that much. I built this to be a fun flyer and honestly, I didn't want to bother with all that fiddly "cut out between the cylinders stuff" anyway.

I hope this new thrust angle of 5 degrees right and down is enough. If it's not I'll probably move the CG a little more forward before increasing the thrust angle again.

.......Mike

FS Gilbert
10-30-2009, 02:25 PM
I bought one of these last week and just couldn't stand to have the same as everyone else, so a quick spray and wipe off the over spray, then as they say in the manual, "Put the wings on and go flyin'".

I found that the string for the rigging is more than adequate...I couldn't break it by pulling it apart without cutting my hands from the thread, but it did require some baking soda to fill the holes as I soaked them with reg. CA. I didn't like the way the lower wings are bent from the plans for rigging but I am glad to hear everyone else had the same concern that has been dissolved from the action of the first flights.

Some one on another forum mentioned what they used as motor, ESC and bat combo which was considerably cheaper than the rec. ones from Eflite. I think I saved myself well over $50. I paid $9.95 just for the motor, another $20 for the ESC and an additional $10 for the bat. So far, everything is working well and it has more than enough power to hang on the prop, which the originals never could.

FS Gilbert
10-30-2009, 03:24 PM
Flew the Nieuport in the back yard today. Had a few problems as it is waaaay over powered as I am used to with brushed motors. But once I tuned it back to barely a tick over, it flew well even in a little wind.

MOF, I managed to take it off from my lawn with those tiny wheels! I couldn't believe it. I have never been able to ROG with wheels that size in grass with a brushed motor.

I would say that it doesn't need all that dihedral to fly scale, but it certainly needs it to fly indoors as one wants it to rise quickly and even off the grass, it was flying in 5 feet.

IMHO, a ten!

degreen60
10-30-2009, 03:34 PM
I would say that it doesn't need all that dihedral to fly scale, but it certainly needs it to fly indoors as one wants it to rise quickly and even off the grass, it was flying in 5 feet.
IMHO, a ten!

My Flying Fish only has 1/2 inch of dihedral. Wing almost looks flat. It fly great.

FS Gilbert
10-30-2009, 03:51 PM
Love the paint job, degreen60. That's quite unusal and impressive.

As far as the didehral on the Nieuport, for anyone flying indoors, they are going to need it for rising quickly and turning. I only built it that way, because of the plans, but were I to do it again I might reduce it a bit.

degreen60
10-30-2009, 04:27 PM
As far as the didehral on the Nieuport, for anyone flying indoors, they are going to need it for rising quickly and turning. I only built it that way, because of the plans, but were I to do it again I might reduce it a bit.

It is easy to change the dihedral on the Nieuport. I did not run one continous brace wire as shown on the plans but each brace wire is tied where it goes through a strut. Only pull the landing wire tight enought to set the dihedral you want then pull the flying wires tight to hold the wings in place. Also I drilled holes in front former and front fuselage struts to make the bracing more like the 17.

7car7
10-30-2009, 05:07 PM
FS - plane looks great! Another cool and rare customizing job. Like it. What's the story on that sheme?

FS Gilbert
10-31-2009, 01:07 AM
I thought I would make it an Italian job. As far as the paint, it was what I had on hand. But I don't doubt that the Italians might have used that color based on some of the other paint schemes during that period of time.

dbcisco
10-31-2009, 01:12 AM
I thought I would make it an Italian job...
I esp. like the Ferrari prancing pony emblem!

degreen60
10-31-2009, 01:17 AM
I thought I would make it an Italian job. As far as the paint, it was what I had on hand. But I don't doubt that the Italians might have used that color based on some of the other paint schemes during that period of time.

Looks close to me.

FS Gilbert
10-31-2009, 02:56 PM
The prancing horse was originally used on Barraca's plane during WWl. He was Italy's leading ace. During the 1920's, Enzo Ferrari visited his widow and asked permission to use the emblem for his cars. That is where the Ferrari symbol originates from.

I know of the paint scheme, degreen60, but I didn't have enough paint in all the colors to do it.

MOF, the Italian company Macchi, made the finest quality Nieuports, under license, during the war. The Russians made the worst, substituting pine for spruce in the spars. When Nieuport found out, they pulled the license. But many of the Russian Nieuports survived the war and were later used in the hands of the Bolshevicks (sp) and also in the subsequent uprisings in Poland in the 20's. None survive today. In fact, there are only a handful of original Nieuports in the world and most of them have been cobbed up so much in repairs that very little of the original plane exists. But there are some fine examples fully restored in Canada and Belgium.
One of the more original aircraft is the Nieuport 10 up at Rhinebeck, NY. It was originally brought to this country by Nungesser in the 1920's, when he toured the East Coast.
Another is the Nieuport 11 at the museum at L'Bourget where Lindbergh landed. It is very difficult to get to from Paris. You have to use public trans unless you have a car. But it is sooooo worth it. The model shop is worth just the vist.

dbcisco
10-31-2009, 03:01 PM
The prancing horse was originally used on Barraca's plane during WWl. He was Italy's leading ace. During the 1920's, Enzo Ferrari visited his widow and asked permission to use the emblem for his cars. That is where the Ferrari symbol originates from....

Thanks. That is some really interesting history. Ties two of my favorite subjects together.

scalercflyer
10-31-2009, 04:21 PM
I think a pizza on the side of the fuse would be a nice touch. :eek: Marty

FS Gilbert
11-01-2009, 01:43 PM
Or maybe a pic of a fedora with the words, "So, you wanna a piece of me?", or "Hey, I'm flyin' here!"

FS Gilbert
11-09-2009, 05:54 PM
An update. Tried to fly yesterday in a bit of a wind and put a little too much power to it and it torque rolled into the ground from a hand toss. You really have to watch the power curve from these little outrunners. Have to glue up the motor mount and reattached the top wing.

degreen60
11-10-2009, 05:03 AM
An update. Tried to fly yesterday in a bit of a wind and put a little too much power to it and it torque rolled into the ground from a hand toss. You really have to watch the power curve from these little outrunners. Have to glue up the motor mount and reattached the top wing.

I installed my motor with no down thrust to start with, the plane did a loop on hand launch. Now I have quite a bit of down thrust and some right thrust in the motor. With the down and right thrust the plastic engine looked funny attached to the motor so I removed it from the motor and attached it to the cowl. I have the motor off set so the prop shaft goes through the center of the cowl.

FS Gilbert
11-10-2009, 01:11 PM
I agree with the thrust offsets and perhaps I should do the same with a few washers under the motor mount, but I have found that the motor and prop compo have gianormous power and I just have to be like the P-51 pilots and not put all the power on at once least I torque roll down the runway.

MS_in_NY
11-10-2009, 09:04 PM
I agree with the thrust offsets and perhaps I should do the same with a few washers under the motor mount, but I have found that the motor and prop compo have gianormous power and I just have to be like the P-51 pilots and not put all the power on at once least I torque roll down the runway.


What motor, prop, and batt are you running?

I put a Suppo 2808-14 1450kv with an APC 8x4 prop and a 500ma 2S lipo in mine. That pulls about 75 watts at full charge and will definitely prop hang but I haven't noticed any serious torque roll tendency. Then again, I'm not doing hand launches so maybe it's not so pronounced with ROG takeoffs.

I've got 5 degrees down and 3 right on the motor. The biggest problem I've had is the extra weight of the motor (40g) makes getting the CG correct a hassle.

Keep an eye on the rudder hinge, especially if you do any forward flips on landing. Last flight I noticed rudder control was getting "funny". When I got her down, a rough landing but no flip over, the rudder was fully detached from the fuse and hanging by the pushrod. I think it must have been loose for a couple of flights. No wonder I couldn't seem to get the rudder trim "just right". The CA hinge was slipping in and out of the fuse and changing the trim on every turn. I'm glad it waited for a rough landing to fall completely out. :)

........Mike

big daddy
11-16-2009, 11:43 PM
why don't they make a red tri plane like this? I have the sopwith pup and it rules the skys here in FtThomas KY. It would be nice to have a dog fight

degreen60
11-17-2009, 12:28 AM
why don't they make a red tri plane like this? I have the sopwith pup and it rules the skys here in FtThomas KY. It would be nice to have a dog fight

Who made the Sopwith Pup? I thought Eflite only made 3 of the 250 powered WW1 planes, Jenny, SE5A, and Nieuport.

dbcisco
11-17-2009, 01:31 AM
Who made the Sopwith Pup? I thought Eflite only made 3 of the 250 powered WW1 planes, Jenny, SE5A, and Nieuport.
The pup is from GreatPlanes. Now on sale cheap at Tower Hobbies.

scalercflyer
11-17-2009, 02:16 AM
You call $50.00 cheap? ???? Marty

dbcisco
11-17-2009, 02:33 AM
You call $50.00 cheap? ???? Marty
With a $20 off coupon it will be $40 including shipping. A Guillows WWI kit is now $50. A GWS PicoTM is $50 and the eflite ARFs are $70 plus shipping. Yeah, I call it comparably cheap. If I had a coupon I would probably get one.

degreen60
11-17-2009, 05:02 AM
The pup is from GreatPlanes. Now on sale cheap at Tower Hobbies.

OK, thats the same Pup Wattman has. He posted a picture with it and some of my planes in it. It is the size to look nice with the Eflite Nieuport and my scratch built Tripehound. I think the Pup would be easy to scratch build. I have my next scratch build going, a Bristol M1C. If it come out good I will be posting pictures soon.

big daddy
11-17-2009, 08:35 PM
Mine is a Electrifly Sopwith Pup. Construction looks alot like the Neiuport. still does anybody know where to get a tri plane kit like one of t6hese two planes?

degreen60
11-17-2009, 09:12 PM
Mine is a Electrifly Sopwith Pup. Construction looks alot like the Neiuport. still does anybody know where to get a tri plane kit like one of t6hese two planes?

Which tri-plane? Kavan made a Sopwith and one sold on Ebay last week. If you want to scratch build my Tripe was not that hard to build. I used GWS Pica Tiger Moth wings. The hardest part was making the front of the fuselage round. I layered the foam and sanded to round shape.
Here is the URL of the picture Wattman took of his Pup with my Nieuport and scratch built Tripe.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49791 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49791)

dbcisco
11-17-2009, 09:26 PM
Which tri-plane? Kavan made a Sopwith and one sold on Ebay last week. If you want to scratch build my Tripe was not that hard to build. I used GWS Pica Tiger Moth wings. The hardest part was making the front of the fuselage round. I layered the foam and sanded to round shape.
Here is the URL of the picture Wattman took of his Pup with my Nieuport and scratch built Tripe.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49791 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49791)

But the M-S with a Czechered past steals the show IMO.:D

big daddy
11-17-2009, 10:33 PM
Nice Tripe. is that a TM kit with an extra wing or what?

WWI Ace
11-18-2009, 12:01 AM
If you want a foam Fokker triplane go to www.dvflighttech.com (http://www.dvflighttech.com) and look at theirs. The wings are held on with magnets in case you have an OOOPPPSS!!! I have had one for a long time and it still flies!! I even gave Marty a kit to build. Steve

degreen60
11-18-2009, 12:19 AM
Nice Tripe. is that a TM kit with an extra wing or what?

I used a top and 2 bottom TM wings(bought a TM that came with the extra wings). The fuselage is made from foam sheets. Flat sided fuselages are easy to make with foam. Only need a 3 view(or plans) to make the size you want then tile print on paper. Cut out and tape paper pattern together. I like to use pink foam to make the fuselage where I grab it to hand launch. Pink foam is stiff. I also use pink foam sanded thinner for the tail feathers.

degreen60
11-18-2009, 12:27 AM
But the M-S with a Czechered past steals the show IMO.:D

Thanks, the MS-N is a real floater. I fly it on max of 40 watts. Usally fly less than 1/2 throtle. I get over 30 min flight time on old 1200 2s. No stunting, I did a long dive one time and the wing broke. It does look nice floating by about head high then add power into a climbing wing over for the turn.

tjm5837
01-06-2010, 03:49 PM
Doing the rigging now and cannot for the life of me get that string through those tiny tubes at bottom of the fuse. I have cleared the tubes of all crap inside with a straightened paper clip. I tried the soaking the string with CA, The tube is just too small!! Suggestions? Comments?:censor:

lilleyen
01-06-2010, 09:01 PM
Thanks, the MS-N is a real floater. I fly it on max of 40 watts. Usually fly less than 1/2 throttle. I get over 30 min flight time on old 1200 2s. No stunting, I did a long dive one time and the wing broke. It does look nice floating by about head high then add power into a climbing wing over for the turn.

Personally,
I'm not too enamored over the site of my broken wings floating by.:D;)

lilleyen
01-06-2010, 09:12 PM
Doing the rigging now and cannot for the life of me get that string through those tiny tubes at bottom of the fuse. I have cleared the tubes of all crap inside with a straightened paper clip. I tried the soaking the string with CA, The tube is just too small!! Suggestions? Comments?:censor:

Try getting it started and feeding it in an eight of an inch at a time with tweezers.
If you have Zapped it for about 4" and have a built in "needle" it should go through OK.
Slow, but it works.

lilleyen
01-06-2010, 10:02 PM
Misread the instructions with the result being my motor (and built in prop saver) was too far back for the prop to clear the cowl.

Managed to debond the dummy motor and get it back on the motor where it should be (further forward), but there is no way in that "very warm place" I was ever going to debond the "Tube", so I dremeled it off, flush with the front of the firewall/engine mount.
Even so, I had to force on one of the two supplied aluminum "adapters" on the front of the prop saver (looks a bit like a two level washer)
Found a wooden dowel that was just a tad fatter than the motor casing, and spun it on some sandpaper until it was a very tight fit in the engine mount that came with my 250.
Cut of about 4" of this and used it to align the mount with the tube so the position would be the same. I stuck it through the mount about 1 1/2", and then stuck it into the tube and slid the mount back to the firewall, rotated the mount until the top hole (It only has two), was at or about the 2 o'clock position and drilled the holes for the mount screws.

The idea here was to be able to put some washers under the mount at the 2 o"clock position and hopefully dial in some down and right thrust should this become necessary. (I don't think there is any built in to the plywood box, although I can see there was some angle built in to the "Tube" position)

Put the cowl back on and I can see that I'm still about 1/4" shy of the cowl. (BTW, that silver paint on the forward part of the fuselage scrapes off very easily. A silver Sharpie is a good match for a touch up)
Going to stick with the prop saver for now, maybe double up on the O'rings or elastics made from slices of silicone tubing for safety.
I still think it looks more "scale" than having a spinner sticking out there.

Not really happy with either option, maybe using the prop extender with a regular hex nut (if I could match the threads), instead of a spinner would work, painted black.
Aside from the German version of the N11 with the huge bulbous nose, I've never seen a Nieuport with a spinner. :rolleyes:
At least not N17, maybe a N28. (How high did they go?)

I'll post some pictures of this if anyone's interested.
Added some exhaust pipes to both sides too based on those Autocad pictures making the rounds.
Used some of those little transparent drink box straws, silver on the outside and brown on the inside.
Same brown Sharpie we use for the orange prop to "wooderize" it.

degreen60
01-06-2010, 11:00 PM
Not really happy with either option, maybe using the prop extender with a regular hex nut (if I could match the threads), instead of a spinner would work, painted black.

Added some exhaust pipes to both sides too based on those Autocad pictures making the rounds.
Used some of those little transparent drink box straws, silver on the outside and brown on the inside.
Same brown Sharpie we use for the orange prop to "wooderize" it.

I used an AX-2603N motor. It has a threaded shaft so only need nut and washer to hold the prop on. I did not like the way the dummy motor looked with the down and side thrust so I took mine of the brushless motor and attached to cowl. It can not be see when flying anyway.

I do not think any of the rotatory engine planes had exhaust pipes, no way to attach them to the rotating cylinders. I think some of the planes had rocket firing attachments, maybe that is what is in the Autocad pictures. You might want to check, they may have been attached to the outer wing struts not the fuselage. Just my 2 cents worth.

lilleyen
01-07-2010, 02:51 PM
degreen60 you may be right about the exhaust pipes.
I based mine on this Auto-cad picture
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Nieuport/0n17_cu.jpg

Mark Miller's Auto-cad pictures are here in case you haven't seen them.
I can't vouch for their authenticity, but they are impressive.
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Nieuport/index.html

Anyway, my pipes look neat, silver on the outside, rust and dirt on the inside. a little soot on the fuse just behind them, dry brushed black.
Dry brushed some silver on the machine gun too, going to "wooderize" the grips as well. Put a control panel in front of Snoopy even though I suspect from pictures I've seen in flight museums that there wasn't much in the way of instrumentation available to the pilots of that era.
Smeared (dry brushed), a little "oil" in the fuse just back of the cowl too. :)

Toying with the idea of flattening (they should pop back to oval shape), some of those little straws and coloring them silver and slitting them and sliding them onto the undercarriage to look like real landing gear struts. Not sure how much drag that will create, don't think the weight will be an issue.
Have to try flights with and without them to test it.

Anything that helps make it look "authentic" ;) without adding a lot of weight or cost, I do.
Fake It, fake it, fake it!

Used a dark silver thread for the rigging, put black Sharpie ink on the "screw/bolt" heads on the side access panels as well.
Used a black and a silver Sharpie to add a foot step on the left side of the fuselage just back of the wing.
Of course "Snoopy" being the pilot might look a bit odd, but I think he deserves to fly a "real" N17 don't you? :D
It' only fun scale after all is said and done.

I'm expecting it to be a great flyer when I get to that point in time.

One thing I did that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is to slightly bend just the tip of the tail skid wire up a little so that it won't dig in or catch on the ground or grass. Don't need or want a braking effect.

lilleyen
01-07-2010, 03:05 PM
Found a piece of 1/4" thick cedar yesterday.
I'm going to use a chunk of this to shim the motor closer to the cowl front.
Not sure if I should shave this to create down/side thrust or leave that to some mounting washers.
Any opinions?
I can't tell if the plywood engine mount has any offset to it or not.
I know there was some offset to the tube arrangement but it was minimal, didn't really affect the look of the dummy engine much.
Think of changing the cowl to magnet fastening instead of screws so engine thrust trimming will be a little easier.
I don't like the look of those 3 big black screws anyway.
Might even act like a "cowl saver" since they'll give a little on impact!
Did I say "Impact":eek:

Of course it'll never get put to the test:rolleyes:

7car7
01-07-2010, 06:50 PM
Doing the rigging now and cannot for the life of me get that string through those tiny tubes at bottom of the fuse. I have cleared the tubes of all crap inside with a straightened paper clip. I tried the soaking the string with CA, The tube is just too small!! Suggestions? Comments?:censor:

I use graphite in a tube, used for Pinewood Derby car axles. I blow a bit into the tube. Then the CA'd string goes in pretty well. You could also take a 28 gauge brass/copper wire, and put it thru the tubing first, to "burnish" the graphite, then feed string.

Ryan Flyer
01-09-2010, 01:57 PM
I was looking at the eFlite n 17 but the motor and esc that the tell you to use are really steep on the price. Dose any one now of a cheeper way to power this plane? GWS stuff maybe?
Thanks,
Patrick

degreen60
01-09-2010, 03:18 PM
I was looking at the eFlite n 17 but the motor and esc that the tell you to use are really steep on the price. Dose any one now of a cheeper way to power this plane? GWS stuff maybe?
Thanks,
Patrick

Here is the motor I use on both of my Eflite 17s. It is $6.95 plus shipping.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5427&Product_Name=AX_2306N_1300kv_brushless_Micro_Motor
Here is the 30amp ESC I use. It is $10.97 shipped. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11981
I use a 30amp cause it is just a few cents more than smaller amps ESCs. They will send you a 30amp with either blue or black motor leads. I have the programing chart for both of them if you need it.
I mount the AX 2306N motor using the metal stick mount by drilling a hole in the side of the mount and mounting with a single bolt to the side of the front formers that hold the firewall. The AX 2306N has a threaded shaft so you don't need a prop adapter. I use a 7x6 prop with 2s lipo and at WOT it only pulls 5 amps. The planes will fly at about half throtle. Here are some pictures showing the motor, mounting screw, ESC, and receiver. All mounted under the cowl. I moved the servos under the battery box.

Ryan Flyer
01-09-2010, 06:36 PM
Thanks degreen that looks just right.

PS I am working on making an avro 405k from the plans you gave my!

Patrick

degreen60
01-09-2010, 11:09 PM
Thanks degreen that looks just right.

PS I am working on making an avro 405k from the plans you gave my!

Patrick


What scale did you enlarge the plans to?

Ryan Flyer
01-10-2010, 03:48 PM
I scaled it to have a 35" WS and I am going to power it with a GWS 400 gear drive and a 1000ma lipo.

Patrick

degreen60
01-10-2010, 05:54 PM
I scaled it to have a 35" WS and I am going to power it with a GWS 400 gear drive and a 1000ma lipo.

Patrick

I really like planes with around a 35" WS. Everytime I put a gear box in I end up tearing it back out and installing one of my favorite brushless cause I get more power with less amps. If it is a floater, a 2410-09 with a 10 or 11 inch prop. If it needs a little more speed a 2410-08 with a 9 or 10 inch prop. The Eflite planes being lighter in weight I put an AX 2306N in them. All these motors can be bought for under $8. If you have a real floater that can use a 12 inch prop a 2410-12 is a nice motor. I have one in my trainer, GWS SS-F, looks like a Fokker EIII. It only uses 3 amps at WOT.

lilleyen
01-10-2010, 09:29 PM
I really like planes with around a 35" WS. Everytime I put a gear box in I end up tearing it back out and installing one of my favorite brushless cause I get more power with less amps. If it is a floater, a 2410-09 with a 10 or 11 inch prop. If it needs a little more speed a 2410-08 with a 9 or 10 inch prop. The Eflite planes being lighter in weight I put an AX 2306N in them. All these motors can be bought for under $8. If you have a real floater that can use a 12 inch prop a 2410-12 is a nice motor. I have one in my trainer, GWS SS-F, looks like a Fokker EIII. It only uses 3 amps at WOT.

Priceless info degreen60, I wish I'd seen all this befoe I bought my N17 bits and pieces. ($45.00 here, $54.00 there etc. etc.)
Probably would have saved me mega bucks!
Well, I still have my eye on a EF Jenny, and few scratch built projects.
I will put this info to good use.
Thank you:)

tjm5837
01-12-2010, 12:31 AM
The only thing that bothers me about this plane is those cheap wheels. Has anybody found some scale lightweight foam wheels to fit?

tjm5837
01-14-2010, 02:41 PM
I must be jinxed with this build. Went out to maiden the plane this am. The motor pulled out of the carbon tube for the 3rd time!. I followed instructions and used the RTV silicone to glue the motor into the tube. I pulled out twice while mounting the prop. Remounted it using progressively more silicone. On the maiden today the motor came out of the mount on the climb out. Hate to use CA or epoxy but silicone just won't hold this motor in the mount. What are you guys doing??????

dbcisco
01-14-2010, 02:52 PM
That tube rig is pretty lousy. Worst thing about these eflite planes.
Try something like I did.

7car7
01-14-2010, 02:58 PM
The best way is to do like db did, but I have had good results with my Jenny. I used the stock setup.

I took a file, and scratched up the back of the motor (part that goes into the tube). THen I cut a notch in it that aligned with a hole I drilled in the carbon tube. I then took a tiny screw and threaded it thru the carbon, and set into the slot I cut in the metal.

Before puting it together, I put thickened CA over everything (careful not to glue the bearing), put it together, then put in the screw. Been great since!

tjm5837
01-14-2010, 03:03 PM
That's kind of what I was thinking to do too, 7car7. I didn't know how well the carbon tube would take to the set screw though. I think it may be the best solution though, as I don't want to add nose weight by reconstructing the mount. Thanks.

dbcisco
01-14-2010, 06:17 PM
The best way is to do like db did, but I have had good results with my Jenny. I used the stock setup.

I took a file, and scratched up the back of the motor (part that goes into the tube). THen I cut a notch in it that aligned with a hole I drilled in the carbon tube. I then took a tiny screw and threaded it thru the carbon, and set into the slot I cut in the metal.

Before puting it together, I put thickened CA over everything (careful not to glue the bearing), put it together, then put in the screw. Been great since!
Sounds like more work than making a little wooden plate.:D

tjm5837
01-14-2010, 07:26 PM
Did the set screw with a little hot glue thrown in. Solid as it can be now. :D

scalercflyer
01-14-2010, 11:57 PM
I like db's method the best. Marty

dbcisco
01-15-2010, 01:59 AM
If you make a plate remember to add in the right and down offset. I started with a piece that already had a 4 degree slope to it but could have sanded one down in a minute.

TM4197
01-15-2010, 04:10 AM
DBCISCO

Did that push your motor out from the cowling?

dbcisco
01-15-2010, 12:38 PM
Yes, enough that I had to open the grill screen. Looking back, I used too thick a piece of bass wood. The bigger problem for me was I like a lot (4-5 degrees) of offset so I had to cut the grill screen anyway. I put in a lot of offset because it is easier to reduce than increase.

degreen60
01-15-2010, 02:31 PM
Yes, enough that I had to open the grill screen. Looking back, I used too thick a piece of bass wood. The bigger problem for me was I like a lot (4-5 degrees) of offset so I had to cut the grill screen anyway. I put in a lot of offset because it is easier to reduce than increase.

I mounted the motor in my Jenny this way except I removed the forward firewall and attached my mount farther back in the airplane. I mounted motors in my Nieuports using a stick mount attached to the side of the fire wall mounting box with the firewall removed. Worked great.

lilleyen
01-19-2010, 03:44 PM
I mounted the motor in my Jenny this way except I removed the forward firewall and attached my mount farther back in the airplane. I mounted motors in my Nieuports using a stick mount attached to the side of the fire wall mounting box with the firewall removed. Worked great.

I like the sound of this setup.

Questions:
How did you handle the side/downthrust issue?
How did the CG work out with the servos under the battery box?
How exactly did you mount the servos?

degreen60
01-19-2010, 05:41 PM
I like the sound of this setup.

Questions:
How did you handle the side/downthrust issue?

The stick mount is attached to side plywood with one screw. Down thrust is easy, pivot arround the screw. Made a wooden wedge for side thrust.

How did the CG work out with the servos under the battery box?

COG is right on. No added weight needed.

How exactly did you mount the servos?

I make a foam box with my servos glued in it with one servo higher than the other. The box is the width of the servo and the length of 2 servos. I wrap the bottom up to screw mounting tabs with masking tape. Put a few drops of gorilla glue in the bottom of the box and push the servo in. I glue the box with the servos on center line with the rudder. I use pull-pull for controls. The aft end of the box has an end just tall enough for the tab to rest on so the glue on the bottom of the servo does not take the force of the controls pulling on the servo. The front servo rests on the tab of the back servo.

Here is a picture. You can see the servo arms. On each side of the servos is pink foam, that is the sides of the foam box. Not sure on this plane if I have one servo higher than the other, not much room. If pull-pull needs trimmed I can reach the screws through the openings in the battery tray. The pull-pull lines clamp under the servo arm screws.

lilleyen
01-19-2010, 08:39 PM
I make a foam box with my servos glued in it with one servo higher than the other. The box is the width of the servo and the length of 2 servos. I wrap the bottom up to screw mounting tabs with masking tape. Put a few drops of gorilla glue in the bottom of the box and push the servo in. I glue the box with the servos on center line with the rudder. I use pull-pull for controls. The aft end of the box has an end just tall enough for the tab to rest on so the glue on the bottom of the servo does not take the force of the controls pulling on the servo. The front servo rests on the tab of the back servo.

Here is a picture. You can see the servo arms. On each side of the servos is pink foam, that is the sides of the foam box. Not sure on this plane if I have one servo higher than the other, not much room. If pull-pull needs trimmed I can reach the screws through the openings in the battery tray. The pull-pull lines clamp under the servo arm screws.

Ingenious. DG60
Thank you

BTW, it looks like a bottom view (can see the wing screws).
If that rusty looking screw I see is the screw holding the mounting stick for the motor, then the side thrust must be a pivot on the screw and the down thrust would be the wedge.
Am I correct?:)

Also, I'm curious about that black foam rubber tube thingy sticking up in the picture.
What is that?

I assume the twist tie is to secure your battery, so I did figure something out.????

degreen60
01-19-2010, 11:32 PM
You are correct about the motor mounting. It is by the rusty looking screw on the bottom. I have it side mounted on my Nieuport 28. The wire was a temp battery holder for first few test flights. It has been replaced with a loop of velcro. The black foam is one of the plane holders on my work box.

Mr. Bill52
01-21-2010, 04:26 AM
Hi guys, I'm new here, but I thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in. I built my Nieuport with an AX-1806N motor, Mystery 12a esc, VS9 4.4 gram servos and Flightmax 800mah battery, all from Hobby city. The servos are smaller than what's reccomended, but they work just fine.
This particular motor wouldn't work with the tube mount, so I just screwed it onto the firewall. When I maidened it last week it took off very sharply upward and hard to the left, it was a miracle I was able to land it safely. I figured it needed some right and down thrust, so i placed a washer at about the 2 o'clock position which seemed to help some. It still wanted to pull to the left but not as bad.
Looking at the pictures on the box and in the instructions, it showed to have some dihedral in the upper wing which mine did not. I thought maybe that may have something with it being squirrely. I decided to take the rigging off and re-do it using 8lb test fishing line, and so now I've got what looks like to be a decent amount of dihedral. I hope to be able to take it out this weekend and check it out. Wish me luck!

lilleyen
01-21-2010, 06:54 PM
Hi guys, I'm new here, but I thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in. I built my Nieuport with an AX-1806N motor, Mystery 12a esc, VS9 4.4 gram servos and Flightmax 800mah battery, all from Hobby city. The servos are smaller than what's recommended, but they work just fine.
snipped
Mr. Bill52, your wings look perfect, glad you were able to get down in one piece on the maiden flight.

I'm intrigued by your servo installation.
You seem to have them turned lengthwise instead of sideways as in the plans.
I'll bet this makes attaching the push rods simpler and eliminates the problem of the rudder servo arm maybe hitting the firewall.
I foolishly (lack of experience), attached everything first and THEN turned on the radio.
Servos weren't centred and the rudder arm jammed itself up against the firewall and started making weird noises.
Couldn't have been good for the gears or the motor.:(

In retrospect, I guess I should have removed the servo arms before I turned on the radio.
The way you have you the servos installed it might not have been a problem anyway.
I like it.
Did you have to modify the motor mount box in any way to do this?

Mr. Bill52
01-22-2010, 02:33 AM
The servos I got were too small to install them in the reccomended way, so I just decided to put them in lenghtways. They fit pretty good with no modifications to the firewall! The only problem with them is the wire is too short so I had to use servo extensions to reach the receiver. The receiver I use is a very small GWS 72 mhz 4 channel one. It's mounted above where the lower wing mounts. I wanted to keep it out of the way of the battery area.

lilleyen
01-26-2010, 04:45 AM
OK, almost ready to fly.
Just need to solve my prop attachment problem and get some decent weather.

Question:
What's the best way to do the first flight, assuming CG is on, every thing's balanced and square and straight tickety boo?
Hand launch, or ground take off?

I'm kind of leaning towards ground take offs and quick settling down again to see if there is any major handling/trim issues before it gets high enough to do any real damage.

A lot of time invested, kinda nervous about just tossing it into the wind.

I know it's kind of delicate, which will not be an issue if it flies well and I take it slow and easy.

Have visions of it leaving my hand and spiralling into the ground at half throttle, I'm sure you know the feeling!:eek::<::blah:

lilleyen
01-26-2010, 04:56 AM
Oh yeah, I do have a slight washout problem, top wing, starboard side.:o

Couldn't get it completely out, no matter what I did with the rigging threads, bottom wing screws etc.
It's a result of the crooked/misaligned cabane struts and subsequent wing repositioning (see earlier posts)

What I'm wondering:

I have my N17 hanging by the wings using two coat hangers etc.

If I were to clamp a couple of Popsicle sticks around the washed out wingtip, (like a splint), and attach a line to the rear of this stick arrangement and suspend it from the ceiling with just enough tension to pull the washout up to spec, would the foam wing eventually acquire the proper shape?

Or does this foam have a memory that can't be defeated?
(I believe I have until spring to do this)

Any suggestions?

degreen60
01-26-2010, 03:21 PM
OK, almost ready to fly.
Just need to solve my prop attachment problem and get some decent weather.

Question:
What's the best way to do the first flight, assuming CG is on, every thing's balanced and square and straight tickety boo?
Hand launch, or ground take off?

I'm kind of leaning towards ground take offs and quick settling down again to see if there is any major handling/trim issues before it gets high enough to do any real damage.

A lot of time invested, kinda nervous about just tossing it into the wind.

I know it's kind of delicate, which will not be an issue if it flies well and I take it slow and easy.

Have visions of it leaving my hand and spiralling into the ground at half throttle, I'm sure you know the feeling!:eek::<::blah:

I do not have a place to take off from ground so I hand launch at the top of a down grade over tall grass(hay field). Down grade gives me more time to react before plane hits grass. Only trouble I had on first flight of my first 17 was not enough down thrust. When I built my next 17(my flying fish) I made sure I had the down thrust on the motor and the plane flew nice on first try. I would not worry about the wing. I built my flying fish using wings that had been crushed in shipment.

lilleyen
01-26-2010, 04:24 PM
Thanks degreen60.

I used the motor mount supplied by Eflite that only has two holes for attaching it to the firewall, (two short arms with no holes and two longer arms with holes), so I put one hole/screw at about 2 o'clock and the other at about 8 o'clock.
I put one small washer under the the 2 o'clock hole.
Do you think that will be enough down and right thrust?

degreen60
01-26-2010, 04:42 PM
Thanks degreen60.

I used the motor mount supplied by Eflite that only has two holes for attaching it to the firewall, (two short arms with no holes and two longer arms with holes), so I put one hole/screw at about 2 o'clock and the other at about 8 o'clock.
I put one small washer under the the 2 o'clock hole.
Do you think that will be enough down and right thrust?



I use about the thickness of a tooth pick under my firewall mounts at 2 o'clock. I have enough angle on my motors that the plastic motor supplied with the plane did not look good mounted on the motor. I like my thrust line set so the plane has a slight climb with WOT and a nice glide with motor off without touching elevator.

lilleyen
01-27-2010, 05:21 PM
Well, I might have to add a second washer, but I'll try it the way it is first.
Thanks, I'm on the right track at least.

tjm5837
01-27-2010, 11:52 PM
Finally got my 1st successful flight in today. First few were crashes due to the motor pulling out of the mount when I tried following the manual and using the silicone to glue it in. And 2nd time, It shot straight up uncontrollably and got stuck in a tree. Re-rigged the rigging, and much less throttle on takeoff got me up and away. Then it started doing the climb/stall/climb/stall wave like motion. Slowed the motor down and leveled out nicely at about 1/3 throttle. Flew around pretty good for a few minutes then started inexplicably the climb/stall thing again so I cut my losses and landed safely. Don't know if its a center of gravity issue , wing pitch issue, or throttle control issue. Did anyone else have this problem?????

degreen60
01-28-2010, 03:09 AM
Finally got my 1st successful flight in today. First few were crashes due to the motor pulling out of the mount when I tried following the manual and using the silicone to glue it in. And 2nd time, It shot straight up uncontrollably and got stuck in a tree. Re-rigged the rigging, and much less throttle on takeoff got me up and away. Then it started doing the climb/stall/climb/stall wave like motion. Slowed the motor down and leveled out nicely at about 1/3 throttle. Flew around pretty good for a few minutes then started inexplicably the climb/stall thing again so I cut my losses and landed safely. Don't know if its a center of gravity issue , wing pitch issue, or throttle control issue. Did anyone else have this problem?????
Make sure the COG is 2 1/8 to 2 3/8 back from leading edge of top wing. Also sounds like you need more down thrust on the motor or less power. If you are using 3s try a 2s. I fly my 3 Eflite planes(2 Nieuports and a Jenny) on 2s with 7x6 prop. Take off WOT and fly about 1/2 throttle. The motor I use is 1300 KV. My first flight with this setup had no down thrust and the model looped on take off. The next 2 I installed the motor with down thrust and they almost flew hands off the first flight. Just had to trim the controls for level straight flight at half throttle. WOT has nice level climb. Power off has nice glide.

tjm5837
01-28-2010, 03:55 AM
I think it's COG issue and too much throttle. I am using a 2S lipo. Will rebalance and see if I can get the battery a little foward without hitting the dummy engine. I built the plane strictly of the instructions with all the recommend e-flite equipment.

tjm5837
01-29-2010, 02:59 AM
What a difference a day makes. Last night put the plane on my COG machine and played with battery placement , going way foward, almost hitting the dummy engine. Took it out again tonight. Took off smoothly and just started a little bit of the wave motion again. Gave the plane about 5 clicks of down pitch on the radio and wella! Perfect straight tracking, great handling and the landings are buttery smooth. Love the way this plane flies now! It was at sunset and against the red sky she really looked cool, really a slow relaxing flyer. And it looks majestic in the air.:tc:

TM4197
01-29-2010, 03:26 AM
CONGRATS!! Its always a great feeling to see what you built, fly like it was intended to fly. That's what is neat about this site, so many builders here can get you on the right track...you tweek it a little and then
wa-la!!! Many happy dawn patrols! :D

Hilltop Herbs
03-31-2010, 08:51 AM
Misread the instructions with the result being my motor (and built in prop saver) was too far back for the prop to clear the cowl.

Managed to debond the dummy motor and get it back on the motor where it should be (further forward), but there is no way in that "very warm place" I was ever going to debond the "Tube", so I dremeled it off, flush with the front of the firewall/engine mount.
Even so, I had to tap/force on one of the two supplied aluminum "adapters" on the front of the prop saver (looks a bit like a two level washer)
Found a wooden dowel that was just a tad fatter than the motor casing, and spun it on some sandpaper until it was a very tight fit in the engine mount that came with my 250.
Cut of about 4" of this and used it to align the mount with the tube so the position would be the same. I stuck it through the mount about 1 1/2", and then stuck it into the tube and slid the mount back to the firewall, rotated the mount until the top hole (It only has two), was at or about the 2 o'clock position and drilled the holes for the mount screws.

The idea here was to be able to put some washers under the mount at the 2 o"clock position and hopefully dial in some down and right thrust should this become necessary. (I don't think there is any built in to the plywood box, although I can see there was some angle built in to the "Tube" position)

Put the cowl back on and I can see that I'm still about 1/4" shy of the cowl. (BTW, that silver paint on the forward aprt of the fuselage scrapes of very easily. A silver Sharpie is a good match for a touch up)
Going to stick with the prop saver for now, maybe double up on the O'rings or elastics made from slices of silicone tubing for safety.
I still think it looks more "scale" than having a spinner sticking out there.

Not really happy with either option, maybe using the prop extender with a regular hex nut (if I could match the threads), instead of a spinner would work, painted black.
Aside from the German version of the N11 with the huge bulbous nose, I've never seen a Nieuport with a spinner. :rolleyes:
At least not N17, maybe a N28. (How high did they go?)

I'll post some pictures of this if anyone's interested.
Added some exhaust pipes to both sides too based on those Autocad pictures making the rounds.
Used some of those little transparent drink box straws, silver on the outside and brown on the inside.
Same brown Sharpie we use for the orange prop to "wooderize" it.

The "cone de penetration"; I remember reading an article in "Windsock International" about a decade ago -- I'll search my image library for it and post details if I do have it -- and it is included as an accessory in the Eduard 1/48 plastic model kitted below; I found the image by searching for the aforementioned cone + Nieuport 17:
NIEUPORT 17 (1490) Flown by Charles Nungesser (45 v.); Escadrille N-124 "Américaine", AMF; Bar le Duc, France; August 1916

:

cobra 16
04-03-2010, 06:35 PM
That is a great job. Love to see more picts. I never had mine fly right and I finally wrecked it at our clubs last indoor fly.

IndyJones
10-05-2010, 02:33 AM
Here's a very short flight this evening of my Eflite N17. I've never really got the "bugs" out of this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B_z2f-ZJ_8&feature=youtube_gdata

TM4197
10-05-2010, 02:54 AM
Nice song~

wattman
10-05-2010, 09:19 PM
Nice video and music , I really like the nice slow flight , perfect . :D

CannonGT
10-08-2010, 11:03 PM
Has anyone figured out a way to relocate or access the Li Po that doesn't involve removing the propellor and cowling every time you charge or change the battery? Moving that much weight further aft seems likely to play havoc with the balance.

degreen60
10-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Has anyone figured out a way to relocate or access the Li Po that doesn't involve removing the propellor and cowling every time you charge or change the battery? Moving that much weight further aft seems likely to play havoc with the balance.

I made a lot of changes when I built my 17s. I installed the servos just behind the firewall instead of in front of it. Used pull-pull control which I think saves a lot of weight at the tail. I install my battery at the back of the cowl. Part of the battery goes forward under the cowl. I did not have to add any weight to the nose. I did not like the way the dummy motor look with the down angle of the motor so I glued it into the cowl.

You can see the servos under where the battery sets in the picture. The wire tie was a tremptary battery clamp, it has been replace with verco. ESC and receiver are in front of the firewall. After the cowl is in place the battery will still drop into place. Batteries(800ma) are stopped from going forward by the white piece of foam. I have some longer batteries(1000ma) and they set with one end on the foam.

CannonGT
10-11-2010, 05:09 PM
Mine is already fully built as per the instructions, but if I move the receiver perhaps I can relocate the battery to behind the cowl. Thanks

degreen60
10-11-2010, 05:52 PM
Receiver is on the left in the picture, hidden by masking tape, and the ESC is on the right.

scalercflyer
10-12-2010, 12:13 AM
Receiver is on the left in the picture, hidden by masking tape, and the ESC is on the right.
Hey D, what motor do you have there? It looks like a couple I have in my "collection". Marty
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5244

degreen60
10-12-2010, 12:39 AM
Hey D, what motor do you have there? It looks like a couple I have in my "collection". Marty
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5244


http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5427
It is an AX-2306N
It shows -7 in stock. Hope they get more in before I need another one. I use it in all my 250 Eflite planes, GWS Tiger Moth, and my Breguet 14. Fly on 2s with 7x6 prop. I like it cause it does not need a prop adapter. The Eflite planes will fly at less than half throtle with this setup.

scalercflyer
10-12-2010, 01:24 AM
Boy, D, the price is right! Super cheap I'd say! I must keep that in mind next time I order! Maybe I'll order 2! Thanks! Marty

FS Gilbert
11-13-2010, 12:34 AM
Flew the N-17 in a slight breeze today. This is such a nice flyer. I also have a N11 and find it hard to orient because of the silver wings. The yellow stands out better for me.

Ryan Flyer
11-13-2010, 02:17 AM
Nice looking Niuport! Is that a scale color? It looks great whatever it is!
Patrick

FS Gilbert
11-13-2010, 01:07 PM
Thanks, Patrick. It's a color that was handy, not scale, but the Italians were known for such schemes and colors. I have found that the silver color makes it hard to distinguish up from down. The yellow seems to be just about right and thus I am a little more relaxed with flying. You can see from this distance photo how easy it is to see the attitude of the craft.

Ryan Flyer
11-13-2010, 01:23 PM
I see what you mean. That looks so cool!

lilleyen
11-24-2010, 03:17 PM
Here's a very short flight this evening of my Eflite N17. I've never really got the "bugs" out of this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B_z2f-ZJ_8&feature=youtube_gdata

Still a nice flight.

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say it's a bit tail heavy.

Can you move the battery forward more, or (shudder), add some weight to the nose?

It seemed to float along in a nose up attitude, sort of snobby like.:D

Haven't even maidened mine yet-too chicken:<:
If it flies as well as yours did, I'll be happy.
Trimming is easier than rebuilding.:eek:

FS Gilbert
11-24-2010, 03:58 PM
Mine is powered by a 730 maH 3s, so it is a light and small bat. It is fitted in the fuse over the wheels. There doesn't seem to be a balance problem with mine. I'll fly it even in 8mph winds. But I will tell you that the lower wings need to have some sort of stiffner to the LE. It will make a difference. Because they will curve up giving too much lift w/o it. The other thing I did was to reduce the dihedral a bit so that it doesn't zoom upon takeoff. Just 3/4 of an inch at both top wingtips is enough. If it does climb too much, put in some down elevator on the trim.

These planes originally had their altitude controlled by the throttle and not the elevator. My Nieuport 11 from Great Planes and my Camel from BP Hobbies (they don't sell the Camel anymore) both react to throttle increases by climbing. It is a lot more fun to fly scale in this regard then to have these models fly like F-16's. It is probably why many of you out there are having difficulty flying them. You're using too much throttle.

These planes also need some throttle on landing. You can only deadstick them from a steep angle with your flair at the very last moment. It is almost easier to auto rotate a heli than deadstick a bipe.

But it all comes back to stick time. Just like a fish on a bicycle....it takes a lot of practice.

IndyJones
11-24-2010, 04:12 PM
Still a nice flight.

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say it's a bit tail heavy.

Can you move the battery forward more, or (shudder), add some weight to the nose?

It seemed to float along in a nose up attitude, sort of snobby like.:D

Haven't even maidened mine yet-too chicken:<:
If it flies as well as yours did, I'll be happy.
Trimming is easier than rebuilding.:eek:

Thanks for the advice! I finally maidened my E-Flite Fokker DVII and it flies beautifully. (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58240) I've had 7 perfect flights and landings since the past 2 week-ends. It's restored my faith so that it makes me want to go back to the Nieup to try to resolve it's issues. It certainly does feel like it's tail heavy, even though the CG machine says it's not. :oops:

FS Gilbert
11-24-2010, 04:25 PM
In addition, I have found from time to time, that the stab/ele surfaces have sometimes warped a bit. This is true for the foam planes of all sizes. That will truly change your flight path! So, check that out before ROG.

degreen60
11-24-2010, 06:56 PM
Here is my Eflite Nieuport Fish just floating along.

FS Gilbert
11-24-2010, 07:04 PM
Degreen, you always seem to have unusual color schemes and do such a nice job of it.

degreen60
11-24-2010, 08:47 PM
Degreen, you always seem to have unusual color schemes and do such a nice job of it.

Thank you.
When I was a teenager I heard my mother tell someone I made such nice planes and painted them such drab colors. I was making WW2 planes at the time. I now try to find nice colorful paint schemes.
I am also trying to prove all the WW1 plane nuts wrong that say to have a colorful WW1 plane it has to be a German plane.
Here is another picture of the fish so you can see the scales.

FS Gilbert
11-24-2010, 09:25 PM
Great job! I have to ask....it is paint (airbrush)?

In response to your stating that not all aircraft were drab, that certainly wasn't true with the Italians or French, but the British were more restricted.

degreen60
11-24-2010, 09:56 PM
Great job! I have to ask....it is paint (airbrush)?

In response to your stating that not all aircraft were drab, that certainly wasn't true with the Italians or French, but the British were more restricted.

The British planes give me the most trouble finding a colorful paint scheme. I am making an Eflite SE5A into a night fighter. I am making the blue one with brown diamonds on it. There was also one painted the same way but was red and brown.

I made the scales and fins for the fuselage on the computer using pictures of the real plane. I then printed it on sticker paper and attached to the plane. Front of the fuselage is brushed painted silver and black. Eye is sticker paper. Stars are again sticker paper. Flying surface are brush painted sliver. Leading edges of the wings are brushed painted black. Black lines are marking pen. wheels are brushed painted. I guessed at what colors to use.

CannonGT
12-06-2010, 06:01 PM
Degreen - I finally got a chance to fly after reconfiguring the battery / ESC set up to the way you have it in the photo. It works well, albeit a little tail heavy. It certainly makes it easier to change batteries. Thanks

degreen60
12-07-2010, 01:23 PM
Degreen - I finally got a chance to fly after reconfiguring the battery / ESC set up to the way you have it in the photo. It works well, albeit a little tail heavy. It certainly makes it easier to change batteries. Thanks

I think using pull-pull for the controls saves just enough weight on the Eflite planes to make them balance without being tail heavy.

capt noflaps
12-14-2010, 03:48 PM
Does that fly on a cricket size battery ?

degreen60
12-14-2010, 03:53 PM
Does that fly on a cricket size battery ?
It don't want a cricket, it eats Fokkers.

scalercflyer
12-14-2010, 05:12 PM
Does that fly on a cricket size battery ?
What's a cricket battery? :confused: Does it power their legs when they crick? :confused:Just kidding! :D;) marty

degreen60
12-14-2010, 06:45 PM
What's a cricket battery? :confused: Does it power their legs when they crick? :confused:Just kidding! :D;) marty

A cricket battery is RED. That's why you do not know anything about them. LOL

scalercflyer
12-14-2010, 08:40 PM
A cricket battery is RED. That's why you do not know anything about them. LOL
FYI Don! Right now I'm seeing RED! :eek::rolleyes:;) Marty