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degreen60
04-28-2009, 08:04 PM
I bought this foam plane and don't know if I should call it a kit or ARF. It will probably take many hours to put it together cause the instructions are only exploded views written in Czech. It comes with 2 large formed peices for the fuselage. I like that it is made to look as it it has formers and stringers. Has 2 large wing panels. They are not flimsy like the Wattage Camel or the Eflight Jenny I have. Has a bag with foam tail and pilot in it. The pilot is better looking than the Wattage foam pilot but will need the headphones and shoulder straps sanded off. Another sack has plastic cowl and a large spinner. Has a gear box and gear to go on motor. Another sack has several wood items, screws, control horns, tubes, prop adapter and a motor mount. There are 2 control rods inside plastic tubes. There are 2 wheels made from a hard foam. I hope they stand up to my landings. After much hunting I think I finally found the recomended prop, on the parts list it has Vrtule 11x6. First thing I will have to do is see if I can find out where each piece goes before I put anything together.

WWI Ace
04-29-2009, 11:19 PM
Interesting kit Degreen!!!! Steve

degreen60
04-30-2009, 05:22 AM
I opened the package with lots of parts in it. There are several pieces of wood and tubing. I looked on the parts list and it has numbers that correspond to numbers on the exploded view. I tried a language translater on the net but kept getting word not found. Then I noticed some of the parts had measurment listed. I got a ruler and now I have the tubes and the wood pieces identified so I know where they go on or in the fuselage.

7car7
04-30-2009, 05:55 AM
I'm so jealous! (I think, time will tell!). Just kidding, you'll pull it off really well. Remember, Testors spray paint is your friend. It does NOT eat foam. Love the stuff.

dbcisco
04-30-2009, 12:40 PM
Sounds like following a Guillows plan, only fewer parts:D

degreen60
04-30-2009, 01:30 PM
Sounds like following a Guillows plan, only fewer parts:D

And not in english.

I am thinking about combining these 2 paint schemes. I like the color of the one fuselage but love the rudder on the other one. They are both Russan so will have to make new roundles.

dbcisco
04-30-2009, 01:55 PM
Are the measurements in metric?
BTW, What is the Czech word for "dihedral"?

degreen60
04-30-2009, 02:39 PM
Are the measurements in metric?
BTW, What is the Czech word for "dihedral"?

Yes, the measurements are in metric. That is no problem for me, metric is much easer to use once you get use to it and stop trying to turn it into english measurement each time you need to use it.

I do not see a Czech word anywhere I can say is dihedral. I have scanned in part of the exploded view so you can see what I am working with. I would say this is not an ARF. There are no marking or measurements to show where the wings mount. I am going to have to mark and cut the opening for the wings. This is the first plane I have built that the wings did not glue together but only go a slight distance into the fuselage. I believe the rigging holds the wings from folding in flight. I am still thinking about how to make a hatch for the battery. I am thinking cutting the top of the fuselage just forward and aft of the cockpit so it can be removed, that way I can get to all the electronics.

dbcisco
04-30-2009, 03:37 PM
Looks like the wingtips are raised 35MM for dihedral. REG is most likely ESC (regulator) and AKU is battery (acumulator). RX is RX and the servo looking things are probably servos. This is easier to follow than a guillows plan:D

degreen60
04-30-2009, 04:28 PM
Looks like the wingtips are raised 35MM for dihedral. REG is most likely ESC (regulator) and AKU is battery (acumulator). RX is RX and the servo looking things are probably servos. This is easier to follow than a guillows plan:D


You are reading the plan the same way I did. Last Guillows I built was a DR1 back in 1961 and I do not remember the plan. I took care of my problem of the wings being in 2 pieces. I am glueing a 100mm piece of pink foam between the 2 panels. After glues dries I will cut and glue the dihedral in. I am also going to put a strip of CG in the wings.

degreen60
04-30-2009, 10:28 PM
Here is the wing with 100mm center section added. Each wing tip is raised 35mm. The masking tape is holding the slit with CF installed closed till the glue dries.

degreen60
05-01-2009, 12:52 PM
I have found a problem. The gear box looks real nice, has 2 ball bearings. I have an inrunner that fits. I installed the gear on the inrunner and found the gears did not have enough clearance to turn. I enlarged the holes for the bolts that hold the motor on so the motor can move farther from the prop shaft. Now the gear box will turn. I just need to test and see who much power it takes to turn the gear box and prop. I may have to do away with the gear box and use an outrunner.

dbcisco
05-01-2009, 01:07 PM
Maybe it you need to Czech the specs:D

Is it possible that Eastern Europe has different form factors for small electric motors?

7car7
05-01-2009, 03:00 PM
Maybe it you need to Czech the specs:D


Oh no, had to go there!

degreen60
05-01-2009, 06:03 PM
Is it possible that Eastern Europe has different form factors for small electric motors?

No. How tight the gears mash together is set by the distance between gear centers. The center of the mounting screws is the center of the motor gear. By enlarging the motor mounting screw holes I increased the distance between gear centers.

dbcisco
05-01-2009, 07:00 PM
This is why a club can be helpful. Describing things here is never as good as being there.

degreen60
05-02-2009, 12:25 AM
I enlarged the motor mounting holes a little more and now the gears turn free enough that I believe the gear box will work okey.

degreen60
05-02-2009, 02:38 AM
Here is a picture of the elevator pieces. The kit came with a brass tube to joint the 2 halves of the elevator together using a piece of alum tube as the pivot. I looked to see if I have a CF piece to replace the brass tube with to save weight at the tail. All my CF tubes and rods were too small. Instead of useing the brass piece I found a bamboo skewer was a perfect fit and weighted less. The kit has 2 wood blocks with a hole length ways to glue into the foam elevators and onto the pivot rod. There were no measurement showing where the alum tube goes on the fuselage or where the wood blocks glue into the elevator. I have the alum tube glued on the aft of the lower fuselage half with the pivot rod through it and the wooden blocks glued on the ends. I also have the fuselage former and motor mount glued in the lower fuselage half. Again I had to guess as to location looking at the exploded views.

degreen60
05-02-2009, 06:55 PM
I did not use the supplied servo mounting rails but made a foam box to hold the servos. Instead of using push rods I will be installing pull-pull controls. The wing is ready to glue on the bottom half of the fuselage.

7car7
05-02-2009, 07:29 PM
Making nice progress! And I like how you're saving a few grams here and there.

degreen60
05-03-2009, 11:52 AM
I installed 3 extra foam formers in the upper fuselage half. After the upper fuselage half is glue on I will cut between the 2 front and 2 aft formers, cut line marked with masking tape, so the cockpit can be removed for access to the interier of the fuselage. The squares on the wings are hard spots for brace wires to attach. The kit only had the outer so I added the inner as the real plane had. I like the brace wires on these old planes, I think it gives them character.

degreen60
05-04-2009, 01:09 PM
Aft part of fuselage is painted. Rudder is painted and installed. I used marking pens to paint, just drew what I wanted on the plane and filled it in. Was easy to do, no masking needed. Cockpit/hatch is cut out.

7car7
05-04-2009, 06:07 PM
skull and crossbones is great! Nice job.

degreen60
05-04-2009, 06:59 PM
skull and crossbones is great! Nice job.

Thanks.

I started to print the skull and crossbones on paper then glue on the rudder. After I had it printed I saw I could cut the black inner pieces out and trace around the edges and paint in black. Then I cut the outer outline of the skull and traced it and painted up to the line with black. Sence the foam was white it was easy to do. Then I got the idea to do the red and blue sides the same way. Now I am going to draw circles on the wings and paint the roundels.

degreen60
05-06-2009, 11:28 PM
Pull-pull controls are hooked up. Landing gear is finished. I just hope it holds up to my landings.

7car7
05-07-2009, 03:33 PM
That's a VERY small throw on the servo pictured. Is that elevator or rudder?

If you're concerned about the landing gear, you could always try puting a solid axle all the way accross, from one wheel to the other, and only attaching it in the center (so the outer ends will spring up). Or, wrap tiny bungy string or rubber bands around the outer ends. Either way, you'd have to make an elongated hole in the wood plates you have in the outer ends so the axle can go up and down.

Anyway, it's looking good. Can't wait for some zoomed out pics of it done.

degreen60
05-07-2009, 05:19 PM
That's a VERY small throw on the servo pictured. Is that elevator or rudder?


It is the elevator, the rudder uses the outer holes of the same size arm.

If the kit landing gear does not handle my landing I will be installing sprung landing gear but I think this plane will be a real floater and land lightly.

degreen60
05-08-2009, 12:31 PM
The black marker looks ok for the tail but the colored markers do not look good after drying. I am redoing the colors with acrylic craft paint. Takes longer but will look better when on the ground. Probably could not tell the differance in the air.

degreen60
05-09-2009, 12:44 AM
Russian markings.

Enough red Martin?

I tested the motor gearbox and am not happy with this setup. It turns a 9x6 prop 4800 rpm and pulls 9 amps on 2s. I have a outrunner that turns the same prop at 4800 pulling 6 amps. The kits calls for an 11x6 prop. I am going to try differant outrunner that turns an 11 inch prop slower.

dbcisco
05-09-2009, 12:53 AM
Pouhý pěkný.:D

degreen60
05-11-2009, 03:15 PM
Brace wires installed. I added more wires than the kit shows

7car7
05-11-2009, 05:08 PM
'tis a thing of beauty! Love it.

I've always wanted to do a plane with a full moving elevator/horizontal stabilizer. (I'm sure there's an official name for it.)

The rigging looks great. You're really moving along nicely.

degreen60
05-11-2009, 06:22 PM
I've always wanted to do a plane with a full moving elevator/horizontal stabilizer. (I'm sure there's an official name for it.)

This is my second plane with full moving rudder and elevator. I also have a Morane Salunier L. I have not been real successful getting it to fly. I bought it partly built. The other builder had modified it for ailerons. I am going to redo the wing and put some dlhedral into the wing and see if that helps it fly.

I think I am going to test fly this one without the cowl and spinner installed till I get it trimmed to fly good. I just need to install battery compartment and wait for a clam day.

WWI Ace
05-11-2009, 11:20 PM
Cool!!! Steve

degreen60
05-12-2009, 09:13 PM
Battery compartment finished. Reciever and ESC installed. With battery installed the balance point is 50mm. Plans call for 55mm so it shoud be ok without any added weight. It weights 11 3/4 oz ready to fly without the cowl or spinner. Now waiting on the winds to go calm. Hay is tall and soft so is a good time of year for test flight.

7car7
05-12-2009, 10:13 PM
Great! Ready to go!

I'm waiting with sandwiches at the computer, hoping to hear of a good flight report.:cool:

degreen60
05-13-2009, 02:13 AM
Winds dropped. Took it out for a test. Way too much elevator control and could not get enough down trim for level flight so I flew around holding down elevator. Came in for landing, let some of the down out to flare for landing and almost looped. Hit on nose and wing tip from about 4 or 5 feet. Did not even dent the foam wing. Only damage was top wire brace knocked backward. Already glued back into place. Glad I had not installed cowl and spinner yet.

7car7
05-13-2009, 03:18 PM
So, now comes the decision of whether it needs more weight in the front, (cowl/spinner), or, if it just needs more down trim due to too much positive incidence in the main wing?

One thing cool about that fully moving horizontal, is it is just a trim thing, don't have to think about adjusting the horizontal like you'd want to with a normal plane.

OH, congrats on a successfull maiden! Glad to hear it's in one piece, and will fly again soon I'm sure.

degreen60
05-13-2009, 03:33 PM
So, now comes the decision of whether it needs more weight in the front, (cowl/spinner), or, if it just needs more down trim due to too much positive incidence in the main wing?
.

It just needs more down trim by adj at the servo. The plane flew great from full power to off with me holding down elevator. It is just way too sensitive to the elevator. I changed hook up at the elevator servo and cut elevator movement to less than half of what it had. Just waiting now for another calm day. Hopefull the wind will drop between rains the next couple of days.

degreen60
05-15-2009, 04:38 AM
After getting 5 inches of rain in less than 24 hours the wind finally stopped and the sun came out. The MS-N took off, with a little bit of up trim flys hands off. Cut power and the glide was a little steep. I moved the battery back till COG was 55mm instead of 50mm. Now the glide is nice and flat. It just floats in for landings. Have to be careful or the turns are jerky so I will make the rudder throw less. I have now moved the battery compartment aft. Next will paint and install the cowl and spinner. I have desided the pilot looks too good as a WW2 pilot to make into a WW1 pilot. I will get out one of my WW1 pilot masters and vaccum form a pilot. Need to make a gun too.

7car7
05-15-2009, 03:46 PM
Nice. Sounds like a great plane. Glad you got some break in the weather!

Can't wait for pics of the final look.

Is this your first single wing? I've never flown anything but bi-planes, just wonder what you think of the differences.

degreen60
05-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Is this your first single wing? I've never flown anything but bi-planes, just wonder what you think of the differences.

I have single wing planes. I learned to fly with a GWS SS-F. I have an Etude 1200 full house. A MS-L that is converted to aileron control. The Etude flys faster than my bi-planes but will float a lot farther down the runway on landing. You almost have to force it down. If you get it up high and in an updraft it will become a sailplane with the engine off. I think the differance is the bi-planes have more drag.

degreen60
05-15-2009, 07:18 PM
I have the cowl and spinner installed. I still need to paint the inside of the cockpit black so the pink and white foam don't show. Nice thing about this plane it does not need a hatch for the battery. The battery installs from inside the cockpit.

WWI Ace
05-16-2009, 08:08 PM
THATS A COOL LOOKING PLANE DEGREEN!! Glad it flew well!! We had a tornado come within 5 miles of the house last night. Gotta love the Texas Panhandle!! No damage, just some small hail. About a mile farther down the road there was hail up to the size of grapefruits and some houses and barns were torn up by the hail and tornadoes. The tornado got pretty close to our flying field but I haven't made it out there yet to see if shed is still standing. Steve

degreen60
05-17-2009, 10:01 AM
Ready to take on those Fokkers.

degreen60
05-19-2009, 01:31 AM
I desided it needs a larger battery. I build the battery box for a 2s 900ma. I changed it to a 2s 1500ma. I now have the battery box mounted at a downward angle. I had to move the reciever from in front of the cockpit to behind the cockpit. Balance is perfect. Took it out for a nice flight. The wheels even stood up to my stall landing from about 2 feet. I hope to learn to flare it less on landings next time. Ivan is being painted. Will post pictures as soon as he is installed in the cockpit.

degreen60
05-19-2009, 03:34 PM
Ivan is ready to go Fokker hunting.

degreen60
05-19-2009, 03:40 PM
Fokker beware. Russian MS-N, English Camel, and US SE5A.

dbcisco
05-19-2009, 03:57 PM
Great job Degreen!

degreen60
05-19-2009, 04:43 PM
Great job Degreen!

Thanks. I build kind of stand off scale. Take liberties when painting and finishing.

dbcisco
05-19-2009, 05:01 PM
More fun that way, isn't it?

degreen60
05-19-2009, 06:20 PM
I thought I had the plane finished then found I had not put the logo on the cowl. So I fired up the printer and got out the glue stick.

dbcisco
05-19-2009, 06:29 PM
Now its scale! :D

degreen60
05-19-2009, 06:33 PM
More fun that way, isn't it?

Yes it is. I know there was Russian plane with a tail painted like mine. Also a Russian plane with the blue and red triangle painted on the fuselane. I do not know if there was a Russian plane with both. The black and white spinner is my idea. As soon as the little black bugs are gone so my wife won't get eat alive I will have her take pictures of the plane flying. I have to wear long sleeve shirt, mosquite net, and lots of bug spray just to fly.

TBolt
05-19-2009, 09:18 PM
Real nice build, and nice finishing touches.

WWI Ace
05-20-2009, 12:24 AM
Great looking planes Degreen!! Better be careful though because I heard those Fokkers down in Texas are mean!! It would be a shame for those pretty planes to get all shot up!!! Ha ha!!! LOL Steve

7car7
05-20-2009, 03:36 PM
Really came out nice. Good looking plane. Love the gun on there. I'm itching to make a mono-plane, just not sure what kind yet. Love those early ones.

degreen60
05-20-2009, 07:12 PM
The back of the gun is printed paper glued on foam. The front of the gun is printed paper glued on a 1/2 inch drinking straw from a fast food place. Barrel is plastic from cotton swab. Ammo chutes are cut from the sides of a black foam tray.

degreen60
05-25-2009, 06:43 PM
Well I tried flying with the gearbox and brushless inrunner but was only getting about a 2 min flight and only at almost full throtle. The gearbox setup was turning 4800rpm at 10amps with a 10x8 prop. I change to a 2410-9 outrunner. It now will fly for several min(bugs have stopped me from flying before the battery runs down). This setup is turning 4000rpm at 5amps and will fly at 3/4 throtle with a 10x8 prop. I also had to add an ounce of weight to the nose cause the outrunner weights less than the inrunner with gearbox.

WWI Ace
05-25-2009, 09:45 PM
Sounds like it's gonna work Degreen!! Load those machine guns and shoot those bugs down!! LOL Steve

dbcisco
05-25-2009, 09:59 PM
Amazing how the motor choice makes such a big difference. One would think that the higher RPM brushed would need less throttle than the BL. what are you using for a battery? What is the weight of the plane? seems like it should be a nice slow flyer.

degreen60
05-25-2009, 10:19 PM
The inrunner is a 4600kv and the outrunner is a 840kv. I think a gear box robs too much power. The planes is flown on 2s lipo. I have both a 1500 and 1800 ma pack for it. With the 1500 pack in the plane weights 21oz. It floats in for a landing. Is a nice and relaxing flyer. Being white it shows up real nice at dusk. The red and blue stands out in the air.

degreen60
06-16-2009, 12:36 AM
Most of the black bugs are gone so I took the plane out for a long flight. I had a real WW1 looking crash. I was up high and desided to dive down a ways. The dive almost turned into an outside loop but before the plane got upside down the right wing broke between the brace wires and the plane sprialed in. I am sure glad the hay has not been mowed. NO damage except the cracked wing that is an easy fix. I have a strip of CF in the wing which kept the wing from breaking apart.

7car7
06-16-2009, 03:24 PM
That's a bummer. Thankful for the hay though!

Would have been nice to catch this one on video.

degreen60
06-16-2009, 03:41 PM
A video would have been nice. When the outer part of the wing broke the outer brace wires caught it and held it against the underside of the rest of the wing, one side had a full wing the other about 2/3 of a wing. It aimed straight down and spiraled all the way into the tall hay, I am guessing about 150 feet. Just needed smoke trailing behind it. Wish I had seen that Fokker coming. HAHA. Plane is already fixed and waiting for next flight. Hope to get pictures of it flying soon but no more long dives.

WWI Ace
06-16-2009, 06:02 PM
GOTCHA!!!!! LOL Steve

degreen60
06-22-2009, 11:33 AM
I was wondering if the foam wheels would stand up to my landings. The answer is yes but not the wood landing gear. Yesterday I did a very gental slow landing, about a foot off the ground. HAHA. Broke the wood landing gear for the third time. I am going to cut new replacement wood using popsickle sticks.

degreen60
07-13-2009, 04:19 AM
I now have answers to 2 of my questions about this kit. I was wondering if it was a kit or ARF. It is a foam kit. It is a little more diffacult to put together than my Wattage Camel or GWS Tiger Moth. I was wondering how the foam wheels would hold up to my landings. The wheels are holding up good, can not say the same for the wood landing gear. After breaking every piece of wood in the landing gear at least once I replace all the wood except the axle with popcycle sticks. The wood axle has been replaced with a CF arrow shaft.

degreen60
07-13-2009, 04:35 AM
We had almost perfect flying weather today. Little or no wind, overcast so no sun in the eyes, temp in the lower 80s, and NO little black bugs. Wife took pictures of the N on one of its flights. The head on shot is so you Fokker drivers will know what to look for in your 6.

dbcisco
07-13-2009, 05:21 AM
Really nice looking plane! Don't see many of them outside Česko-Slovensko!

7car7
07-13-2009, 04:08 PM
Gorgeous plane, and the scenery behind/bellow it is really something. I'm guessing that field gets watered regularly! Great shots. That plane is looking really good. Wish I could get shots like that.

degreen60
07-13-2009, 04:16 PM
Gorgeous plane, and the scenery behind/bellow it is really something. I'm guessing that field gets watered regularly! Great shots. That plane is looking really good. Wish I could get shots like that.

The plane is easy to fly low and slow. I broke the wing in a dive so I just take it easy with the plane. I fly over my hay field(as you can see the big round bay) and we have had a lot of rain the last 3 years. If I remember right we are almost at our avarage for the year already. The hay was mowed the last week of June and it looks like it is almost ready to cut again.

WWI Ace
07-13-2009, 11:00 PM
All I know is I'm gonna feel a little bad about spitting lead into your crate!!! I'm not afraid of the little skelly man on the tail either!! I'm a Fokker pilot and we're fearless!! LOL!! Steve

degreen60
07-14-2009, 12:22 AM
I'm not afraid of the little skelly man on the tail either!!

Here is something I found about the tail emblem. "The rudder sported the so-called 'Adams's Head' (skull and cross-bones), the Christian symbol of immortality; this was the emblem of the 19th KAO probably introduced in the autumn of 1916."

WWI Ace
07-14-2009, 12:29 AM
Very interesting. I've wondered how that came about. I've also seen it on the rudder of I believe a Nieuport 17. Steve

degreen60
07-14-2009, 12:50 AM
When the sun is out(which it was not in the pictures) the blue and red pennent and roundels stand out on the white. The sun shines through the white. The spinner in the pictures is either white or black but when flying it looks gray.