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Sky Sharkster
02-18-2006, 01:16 PM
Hello All, I thought it might be informative if some of our E-Glider flyers posted good "Starter" gliders for new people to try. For my list I've tried to keep the "street" price of the ARFs under $ 100.00, of course the "builder" kits will be less. Also if you're posting a "conversion" from thermal to electric would you include motor, ESC and battery size as well as any modifications to the airframe? Thanks.
(1) Multiplex Easy Glider ARF. W.S. 71" W.Area 648 sq/in. Wt. 35 oz. Wing loading 7.8 oz/sq/ft. Airfoil-undercambered. Motor (supplied) Permax 400. Price $ 79.99 from http://nesail.com
(2) Great Planes ElectriFly ElectroStreak ARF. W.S. 44.5" W.Area 342 sq/in. Airfoil-Semi Symmetrical. Weight 43 oz. Wing Loading 18.1 oz/sq/ft. Motor 550 (supplied). Price $ 99.99 From http://www2.omnimodels.com
(3) Thunder Tiger eHawk 1400 ARF. W.S. 55". W.Area 300 sq/in. Weight 21 oz. Wing Loading 10 oz/sq/ft. Motor 380PH (included). Price MSRP $ 125.00-I've seen these in hobby shops for $ 90.00
(4) Astro Mini Challenger. (Kit, not ARF) W.S. 61" W. Area 440 sq/in. Weight 26 oz. Wing Loading 8.0 oz/sq/ft. Airfoil E 193. Motor (not supplied) Speed 480, B/L .020 w/planetary G.B., .035 D.D. Price $ 59.95 from http://www.nesail.com
(5) Skimmer 400 Electric Sailplane. (kit, not ARF) W.S. 59". W. Area 342 sq/in. Airfoil Selig 3021. Motor (not included) Speed 400 or complete w/folding prop GR6072 Pico-set. Price $ 24.90 from http://www.hobby-lobby.com
(6) Skimmer. (kit, not ARF) W.S. 70" W. Area 532 sq/in. Wing Loading 12.0 oz/sq/ft. Airfoil Selig 3021. Weight 42 oz. Motor Speed 600. Price $ 29.90 from Hobby-Lobby.
I'm sure there's more available, including conversions. C'mon and help out!
Ron

Sky Sharkster
02-20-2006, 05:27 PM
Well, I overlooked a few, including one that won speed 400 LMR at the Nats a few years ago-Can you guess which?
http://www.cermark.com "EasyLander" Electric ARF Sailplane, W.S 56", Lt. 36", Wt. 20.5 oz. Motor-Speed 480. This is a built-up model with molded fuselage, comes with motor, folding prop+Spinner and hardware. Price $ 79.00
www.horizonhobby.com (http://www.horizonhobby.com) "Ascent" Electric ARF Park Glider. Built up flying surfaces with molded fuselage. W.S. 54" Lt. 32" Wing Area 331 sq. in. Weight 19.5 oz. Includes speed 400 motor and 7" x 3" folder. Price $ 69.99
http://www.cermark.com "Mini-Phoenix-AL" Electric ARF Sailplane. Built-up balsa with molded fuselage. W.S. 58", Lt. 36", Weight 22 oz. Includes speed 480 motor and folding prop. Price $ 79.99
"Silver" package includes 2 micro servos $ 99.99
"Silver Plus" Package includes 2 micro servos and a speed controller.
Anyone flying any of these?
Ron

tone
02-20-2006, 08:58 PM
I have an Ascent and love it.
There are just a couple 'issues' to remedy and it flies great.

Firstly, trash the prop that comes with it. Don't play around or think 'I'll try this one first' just trash it. Get a graupner 6.3x3 CAM folder for the stock 400. Does fine.

Secondly, be aware that the rudder control rod will bind easily. Some bending is required.

also many kinda need some washout in the wingtips. Easy to do with a heat gun or even a hair dryer..

I put a small outrunner in mine and hit 17oz all up. it floats fine. and with a 3S 1320 climbs to about 300 feet in 10 seconds. I am really happy with it.

AEAJR
02-25-2006, 05:43 PM
I am a devoted sailplane/glider pilot. I enjoy my electric planes, but I LOVE my gliders. None of mine have motors, but I often help parkflyer pilots get a taste of gliders and electric gliders are a great transition plane.

Electric Gliders also make great first planes. They typically fly slowly and will practically land themselves if you let them.

Multiplex Easy Star - $59 ARF/Kit
Not typically thought of as a glider, but the wing is very good so it does very well in thermals or on the slope on a moderate day. Many glider pilots buy these to keep in the car as a spur of the moment glider. :)

Multiplex Easy Glider electric - Mentioned above - great plane. Make sure you use an 8 cell pack and be sure the speed control you buy has a break or the prop will not fold. Left open it really hurts the way the plane glides.

Great Planes Spectra - Kit $69, ARF $99, RTF, $200
Wonderful 2 meter built up balsa e-glider. This is the electric version of the Spirit which is often recommended as a great first glider.
If you build the kit or ARF, consider a brushless motor, or a brushed speed 600 with a 3:1 gearbox. If you get the RTF, find out what receiver is packed with it. There were a bunch of them that had a Futaba R114F receiver that has a 650 range. Definately not a proper receiver for a 2 meter glider.

Hanger 9 e-aspire. Similar to the Spectra. ARF or RTF

Goldberg Electra - Another that is similar to the spectra.

If you can get some help in learning to thermal, you will find it very addictive. Climb to about 500 feet then power off and hunt. When that plane starts going up, riding on warm rising air, thermals, it is quite a thrill.

Saleplanes are wonderful!
http://www.rchangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5356

Slow Go
02-26-2006, 02:28 AM
IMO, I think the Cermark Phoenix is a good glider to try. One of the reasons is the room to mount and place all of the electronics. However, I would use a different ESC on the Phoenix. The suggested Cermark ESC is a simple on/off unit. I prefer a variable speed controller.
The Aspire and Ascent are cute small gliders, however getting the electronics in and getting the CG is tough(not much room).
Whatever glider you pick, get your CG right, give it a medium toss into the wind and watch her climb.

AEAJR
02-26-2006, 03:44 AM
FYI, Ascent has 56" wing span. Aspire is 78"/2meter.

Slow Go
02-27-2006, 02:19 AM
Sorry, my goof on Aspire. If my memory serves me the Aspire looks similar to the Spirit.

AEAJR
02-27-2006, 03:57 AM
Yes, Aspire, Spirit, Gentle Lady, Sig Riser, all simiar class of plane.

Thermal
03-03-2006, 08:51 PM
I think you'd be hard pressed to do better than the Easy Glider Electric. For $89 you get the glider, motor, gearbox and prop. The stock motor is fine but you do need to get a better folding prop than the one that comes with it.

Bob

TeslaWinger
03-04-2006, 09:11 PM
[quote=Slow Go- "The Aspire and Ascent are cute small gliders, however getting the electronics in and getting the CG is tough(not much room).[/quote]

The Aspire is a full 2 meter plane, unlike the tiny Ascent. Like most 2 meter gliders, the Aspire has plenty of room for any kind of gear! I often use my giant stock receivers in them since they won't fit in much else I fly!

The Ascent flies great with a 6V S400 direct and a 2 cell lipo- but you better have a super small receiver like my FMA M5- and it is still tight! It is strong, turns sweetly, and is easy to take everywhere with you- but watch the stab warps!

A 2 meter glider needs 2 or 3 times the 100 watts a S400 can deliver- and a reduction drive- or outrunner for a good climb. They are really not in the same class at all- but both are excellent planes that I have a lot of airtime with and can recommend either.

The 2 meter gliders are majestic in flight and I've lost count of the hours I have watched them search for lift and spiral skyward. Next to a foam delta, the e gliders make the best trainers.

Fly high, land soft,
TW

sawadee
03-05-2006, 03:01 PM
Just rec'd my "600" Skimmer Kit after over a month on back order. Don't know if they are selling that fast or not selling at all. Looks like it could be a great floater but after trying an AXI 2814 against the plan I don't know if it will fit. May have to stick with the speed 600 it was designed for. Story of my life.

TeslaWinger
03-05-2006, 09:06 PM
SAW- A bit of reshaping the nose will be well worth the work to mount the outrunner- compared to what you will experience with an S600 by comparison! I will NEVER return to S600 for gliders again- and can't recommend them these days!

Front mount the outrunner. With the spinner laying on the plan where the nose is and the motor mount attached, make THAT your firewall cut with some right and down thrust. Fair it with curved pieces cut from a 2 liter bottle's plastic for a very clean install- see my Bird of Time conversion thread for pix.

Outrunners will never be as streamlined as inrunners- or come to as fine a point up front- but there is no better solution for an awesome climb with maximum efficiency, cooling and prop size.
Just avoid the Speed 600 experience. You won't miss it!

TW

sawadee
03-06-2006, 02:03 PM
Teslawinger
Thanks for the input. Guess I can use your sugestions and modify the nose a bit. I haven't even given too much thought to it yet as I have another plane on the boards right now. Wish this kit would have gotten here in Jan. when I ordered it cause now it's getting close to flying time in PA. and I doubt if I'll get it built for this season. I do have 4 other planes ready to go so really no sweat, except at my age I may not be here next season. Again thanks for all sugestions.

TeslaWinger
03-07-2006, 12:43 AM
Goodness, SAW! Sounds like you have a wing in each world! I know I was a bird in a previous life- probably will be again with any luck. The flyin's good but the carrion is Badddd! There's never enough time- so just make time- that's what I'll keep doin'- til I can't!

If you use that front mount method, use a bit of glass cloth to secure the firewall. That motor sticking out there generates a lot of torque on the firewall for those times when push comes to exsqueeeze meee!

The very best,
TW
PS- I fell in love with PA yrs ago on a 7 mile out and return ridge flight on a hang glider. Near Tower City, way deep in coal country mountains! That was back when I still bounced!

Jeremy Z
03-18-2006, 06:17 AM
Oh, heck, I'll add to this thread too. I'm delighted with my EasyGlider Electric.

Bob (Thermal), you said that the stock motor is OK but a better folding prop is needed. What do you recommend?

I was thinking of going for a cheap upgrade to a 7.2V speed 480 or "longcan 400" and upgrading the prop to something that folds properly when it stops vertical.

Tucson Don
03-18-2006, 01:54 PM
My choice is Spectra for best buy. It flies great with stock motor and has room for the
electric gear. At $99 and ARF it is a real bargain.

AEAJR
03-18-2006, 07:57 PM
Good choice!

AntP
10-15-2006, 07:34 AM
Just some more things that i didn't see mentioned here ..

- 2 m (78 inches) need more than a small park to land (esp. if you are new to gliding)

- the Ascent is easy to fly and land but because it is smaller (less than 1.4 m) it is not that easy to stay up and also because the wings are all red .. it gets hard to see when (relatively) high up

- dihedral wings tend to be more stable and slow (thus usually the choice for thermals), also, very very few dihedral wings have ailerons - rudder is used to turn

- straight flat wings tend to fly faster and usually come with ailerons (thus the choice for slope flying) - most hotliners look like this too and all pilon racers .. i like such gliders because they roll !!


I reaaally liked the Ascent (but was losing orientation relatively low) .. the spectra is a nice 2 color glider but i don't like the fuselage .. it is too square. The Multiplex Easy sounds fantastic .. I almost bought one (until i got it out of the box) .. it is 1.8 m with ail/rud/elev/throttle (perfect) BUT is a foamie .. >blast< ! I don't like foam-glideres! No way! The Omei is nice 2 m glider (top white - bottom red, streamlined fuselage, curved wing tips etc.) but takes a lot of building (for me) and the construction quality (for mine at least) was not good (the rudder is one piece with the fuselage and mine was molded tilted to the left!) .. i just ordered the Cermark Phoenix and will have it by next weekend .. i will put an E-flite Power 10 outrunner and we'll see .. tomorrow i will try for the 1st time a Ptero-X 1.5m aileron/elev. (with a hacker A10) that picked up from eBay for $60 (!) If that thing flys as well as it looks .. we got a winner .. anyway .. that's all .. turn your pc off and go hunt a thermal .. : )

AEAJR
10-15-2006, 08:52 AM
Well, I finally took the step and added an electric glider to the fleet. I have 12 gliders but this is my only electric glider. In addtiton to casualy weekend thermaling I also fly in thermal duration competitions.

One of our club members had been flying an Easy Glider Electric with the Multiplex BL400 upgrage package and 2 cell lipos. Has moved on to bigger and better, so he was selling the package along with 3 2 cell 2100 mahp lipo packs so I bought the whole package. Terriffic.

Before taking it out, I put it on my watt meter. On the bench, wide open, it pulls 26 amps producing about 190 watts on the 2 cell 2100 mah lipo packs. The plane climbs at a good 75 degree angle and starts getting small in about 15 seconds.

Climb it high, then level it off and cut the motor and it floats in a fashion very similar to my Spirit or my Sagitta 600 2m gliders. However the ailerons give it a more positive feel.

That was enough power, yesterday, to take the plane up in a 12 mph wind with gusts to about 16 with no problems. The plane was tossed around a lot, even under power, but I was still able to ride the wind in a glide with no problem. However, like most relatively lightly wing loaded planes, it does not have a strong wing penetration ability.

I have flown a friends plane on the stock speed 400 motor. It is adequate for climb and glide in calm to about 8 mph winds. After that it struggles. The brushelss set up had no problem at at all!

There is enough tip dihedral on the wings that you can take it around the sky with just the rudder and I understand that some people fly it as a rudder/elevator only plane, but the ailerons work so well that I would really recommend using them. A standard 4 channel radio would work fine but if you have a comptuer radio, having the ability to use flapperons adds to the experience.

We were aerotowing yesterday, so I had my 3.6M Ventus 2C sailplane at the field. We were towing with a gas powered tug plane. The Ventus is a beautiful sight when released at 1000 feet. However in between flights with the Ventus, I had a great time with the Easy Glider Electric.

Highly recommended!

Tahoebum
10-15-2006, 04:03 PM
I have an Easy Glider electric which had the stock 400. I went with the 480 (with stock prop) and it flew better. I put a brushless 480/4G with 12x6 prop and the smile on my face hasn't gone away. I had to buy some Advil for my sore neck from looking straight up for long periods of time.

AntP
10-16-2006, 12:44 AM
A standard 4 channel radio would work fine but if you have a comptuer radio, having the ability to use flapperons adds to the experience.


I do have a comp-radio .. can you expand on that a bit?
what do u mean by flapperons (i saw that feature in there)
and why? what do they do? is that just a mix of rudder and ailerons?
then what does the flap stand for? do u use them as flaps??? no !!! :confused:

BTW:
I am surprized you like a foamie glider after flying things like the Ventus !!
it must be good !

Sky Sharkster
10-16-2006, 01:26 AM
Helo AntP, flapperons and spoilerons are control surfaces on the trailing edge of the model's wing. They are dual-function controls, that is they are combined with ailerons.
If you have a model with ailerons and you use a two-servo system, under normal aileron control, one servo drives an aileron down while the other servo drives the opposite aileron up. They move in opposition.
With a mixing function (usually a feature of computer radios) it is possible to have the control surfaces move together (in parallel) as well as the normal (for aileron control) opposition. So if you "mix" the two servos to drive both ailerons "down" together, they act as "Flaps" and slow the model down. While they are both deployed down, they still have the ability to also move in opposition and function as ailerons. So the mixer combines ailerons with flaps and the resulting dual-control surfaces are called "Flapperons".
If you program your radio to move both ailerons "up" together as well as function as ailerons, the resulting dual-function surfaces are called "Spoilerons". Spoilers combined with Ailerons. Spoilers or spoilerons allow the model to descend quickly from thermals or great altitude without overstressing the wings. They are also useful for "spot" landing, as they greatly increase the rate of descent.
To use a mixer in this way the two servos must be plugged into certain ports of your receiver. The owners manual for your radio will explain this, as well as the mixing.
Hope this helps!
Good Luck!
Ron

AEAJR
10-16-2006, 03:25 AM
I do have a comp-radio .. can you expand on that a bit?
what do u mean by flapperons (i saw that feature in there)
and why? what do they do? is that just a mix of rudder and ailerons?
then what does the flap stand for? do u use them as flaps??? no !!! :confused:

BTW:
I am surprized you like a foamie glider after flying things like the Ventus !!
it must be good !

Why should I not enjoy a foamie glider? If flies well, stands up to significant abuse and comes apart easily for transport. What is not to like?

My Zagi slope glider is foam and I love it! My Boomer side arm launched glider is also foam and it is a blast!

In addition to flying the EG at the club field, I intend to take it slope soaring too. :) Since I will have a motor as a safety factor, I can venture out further knowing I can use the motor to get me out of trouble.

I have gliders that cost $100 that are wood and monokote. I have gliders that cost $1000 that are made out of kevlar, carbon fiber and fiberglass. Each has its place in my fleet, just as this one does. I enjoy them all!

Sky Sharkster did a good job of explaining flapperons and spoilerons. I will expand upon his comments.

When I fly the Easy Glider, I am still flying a glider. I only use the motor to climb to soaring height. Once there, the motor goes off and I go thermal hunting. It doesn't come back on until I need to climb again. That might be 5 minutes later or it might be an hour.

I land it as a glider which means I don't use the motor when landing. I try to carry more energy on approach than I need. This helps insure I can get back to the field and back to my landing spot.

When I come in for a landing I may want to change the glide path of the plane in order to help bring it into a specific spot. I can do this in a couple of ways.

On my RES sailplanes, rudder/elevator/spoiler planes, I use the spoilers. I have 2 RES sailplanes. Spoilers pop up on the top of the wing. These create more drag to slow the plane. They also reduce the lift of the wing. This tends to make the model settle down sooner than it would normally whiel it helps to slow the plane down. There is a picture of my RES Spirit sailplane below. You can see the spoilers on the top of the wings. I fly my Spirit in club 2 meter contests.

Full house planes typically have flaps and ailerons. When you come in for a landing, you can drop the flaps. This creates more lift and more drag which causes the plane to slow while allowing it to fly at a slower speed. Again this can be used to help you land the model more precisely. The photo below of my Thermal dancer shows the plane on approach with the flaps 1/2 way down. This is the plane I fly in thermal duration glider contests.

I also have a 2 meter fiberglass slope plane called the Dart. It has full strip ailerons. I have them set up as flapperons/spoilerons as well. They are operated by a switch. On the slope I am flying under windy conditions so I find the spoilerons feature works better for me. It can be had to get the plane to settle in the gusty conditions on the slope. The spoilerons help settle the plane to the ground quickly by "spoiling" the lift of the wing helping me to bring it in for a sliding belly landing.

On my Easy Glider I have both enabled using a slider on the side of my Futaba 9C. When it is in mid point, the ailerons are in their normal position. When I push the slide up, the ailerons both move up in a fashion similar to spoilers. This helps me put the plane down quicly and flat, rather than pushing the nose down with the elevator when I have reached my desired landing point. Down elevator would lead to a mini-crash.

When I move the slide down, the ailerons both move down in a fashion similar to flaps. The plane slows down and can continue to fly at a slower speed than without flaps. Again this helps me settle the plane on the desired landing spot.

When using these controls, some planes will either baloon up or drop the nose suddenly. Most computer radios also include a flap/elevator mix that allows you to mix in a little up or down elevator automatically when you use the spoilerons or flapperons, thus keeping the plane level. You can do it manually, but if you can mix it in automatically it is easier to concentrate on the landing. So far I have not found the need for elevator compensation with the flapperons on the Easy Glider.

These mixes are not required, but they give you more control of the plane than you would have without them. The spoilerons are not as effective as "real" spoilers, nor are the flapperons as effective as real flaps, but they are better than nothing. You do lose some aileron effectiveness when using these mixes, but typically you are on a straight in approach when using them and you would be using the rudder for last minute adjustments.

If you have a Hitec or Futaba radio, typically you would put one aileron in channel 1 and the other aileorn in channel 6, which is normally the flap channel. When you turn on the flapperon mix, it mixes these two channels to make the ailerons both work as ailerons in response to the right stick. When you provide flap commands both will respond to them as flaps. Cool!

I hope that helps explain what they are and how I use them.

radralph
10-16-2006, 05:49 AM
Hi guys!

I'm thinking of buying a nike2 as my 1st warm/hotliner. I've flown a beaver and a stryker successfully so far and am currently building a 3D moth and a Formosa II is next. i should be able to fly the nike2, right?

I saw my first hotliner fly at a show a couple weeks ago and was really intigued. It was a 2m with a Neu motor I think. It had wicked fast climb outs, screaming dives, and very quick fly-bys. That thing was Bad!

I'd rather not buy a cheaper/slower glider at this point for fear of boredom. Is one neccessary for training purposes? The nike2 is listed as an intermediate plane which I should be after those 4 planes. I'd also like to fly it with my DX6. Any opinions out there????

Thanks,
Ralph

AEAJR
10-16-2006, 10:38 AM
Based on what you hae flown a hotliner should not be out of your range. Just realize that if you get the right motor/battery in that plane it will be wicked fast so build up the speed carefully. If you hit someone or something with that plane there will be damage and injury. Make sure you know what you are doing.

I don't know the Nike2, so I can't comment specifically but many hotliners use carbon fuselage construciton. Be sure you get a good range check with the DX6. And even if you do get a good range check, if it has a carbon fuse it "might" cause some reduced range. I am just being cautious here. At 2 meters you can get the plane far enough out to get out of range of the DX6. Again, just advising caution.

It sounds like you will be flying it as a high speed aerobatic plane so treat it as such and you should be fine.

Sky Sharkster
10-16-2006, 12:34 PM
HI Ralph, I'm going to go out on a limb here and give you 2 answers you don't want to hear. For a first powered glider, the Nike 2, NO!.
For a radio to be used at very high altitudes, in a model that can (and will) thermal to great distances, the Spektrum, NO!
Sorry, buddy, but the Nike 2 is an "intermediate" Hotliner, Not an intermediate model airplane. It is not a trainer! Nor can it be flown like one. It won't fly at 1/2 throttle while you learn. It won't even fly at 1/2 throttle! This is no reflection on your piloting ability, it is a testament to the "Hotliner" class. Easily twice the speeds (half the pilot reaction time required!) 3 times the weight and about 4 times the power output of anything you've listed! Hotliners are the "Terminators" of model airplanes. In terms of kinetic energy, these are 125mph bowling balls. Do you really want to be learning a new type of flying on that? Ask yourself this: What's the safest, most responsible course of action?
For less than $100 you can buy a good powered glider and develop the skills needed to fly an airplane at high altitudes. Learn to orient, fly and respond to a model at 1,000 foot altitude. A Hotliner will be there in less than 10 seconds. And it comes down much faster, especially with the motor off. That's what they do, that's what they're designed to do.
Now, the DX radio system is a great advancement in R/C and when they develop a transmitter power output capability that is "full range" they will be useful for more than "Park" flyers. That day will arrive but it's not here yet.
I've read of flyers "specking out" 2 meter gliders with these or going to the limits of visibility with smaller models. So far, so good. Until the manufacturer is willing to guarantee full range or range equal to a good 72mhz dual conversion FM system I'm not willing to risk my model, the safety of anyone or anything within a mile, or the possible loss of a flying site to prove they're wrong.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth!
Ron

AEAJR
10-16-2006, 01:26 PM
Ralph,

What any individual can "handle" is a highly subjective discussion, especially when none of us has seen you fly. Only you can judge this.

Sky Sharkster makes some good points. I have no personal experience with hotliners as high speed planes are not of great interest to me. However it sounds like he does. I would give his comments serious consideration when it comes to the handling of a high speed glider.

AntP
10-16-2006, 05:17 PM
THANKS for the info on spoil/flap-erons .. i have my 1.5m glider on a 4 ch Rx .. so it can't do that .. but i do have a 2m Phoenix coming and i will put my 7 ch Rx in there and try those out ..

One more question .. i have troubles spot landing (I like to catch the glider) .. i usually bring the glider around .. aim straight toward me .. and then either it overshoots or it is coming in so fast that i don't even try grabbing it !! .. what would you recommend for that ? Spoilers or Flaps ?

radralph
10-16-2006, 07:49 PM
Sounds good. I figure if I power it with a mild setup at first I'll be OK. Thinking of flying it on an axi 2826/10 and 3s1p lipo to start, 3s2p later if it'll fit. I'm not sure it has a carbon fuse but will be sure to check.

Oops,missed some posts:
The guys on rcg are recommending this plane on a mild power system and the bandit as 1st hotliner instead of a siren. This is the first time I've heard the DX6 will be bad. What I'm thinking of is verticles from take off with floating turns all within 1000-1500 ft of the the field, maybe less. I doubt I'll ever thermal it. Isn't that well within the 3000 ft range of the DX6?

I'm also joining a club next year and there are fellows there willing to help. More comments are very welcome.

thanks,
Ralph

flyranger
10-20-2006, 12:17 PM
Assuming you will use two servos, one for each aileron, they can be connected so that your transmitter will mix two channels allowing the ailerons to move together downward, creating a "flap" effect, or move together upward creating a "spoiler" effect, but still allow the use as ailerons. Because the movement changes the camber of the wing, the pitch of the model will change and you have to be ready for that. Some flyers will mix in a little down elevator to compensate for that. This has been covered many times in this and other forums, but here's the difference in a nutshell: Spoilers disturb the airflow creating additional drag over the wing, but don't chang the stall speed. Flaps change the camber of the wing, reducing the stall speed and creating drag. Let's say you are on final for that anticipated "spot" landing. Pop flaps, the ailerons move down together and a gust of wind pitches the model upward two or three feet and slow to stall speed with flaps deployed. You decide to go around and try again, snapping the flaps off. Plane crashes!! By switching the flaps back out, the stall speed of the model increased and "he who stalleth - falleth!". Same scenario with ailerons configured as spoilers. On final, spoilers switched in, both ailerons move upward creating more drag and a small pitch change (in my experience not as great a pitch change as flaps) the plane slows and angle of descent increases without an increase in speed. Gust of wind hits pushing the plane upward two or three feet so you decide to go around. Switching out the "spoiler" effect reduces drag again but does not change the stall speed - NO CRASH! I love my computer radio!! Here's a few pics of my new 1.75m wing. The blue painters tape just holds the built-up ailerons on for the picture.

AEAJR
10-20-2006, 01:11 PM
THANKS for the info on spoil/flap-erons .. i have my 1.5m glider on a 4 ch Rx .. so it can't do that .. but i do have a 2m Phoenix coming and i will put my 7 ch Rx in there and try those out ..

One more question .. i have troubles spot landing (I like to catch the glider) .. i usually bring the glider around .. aim straight toward me .. and then either it overshoots or it is coming in so fast that i don't even try grabbing it !! .. what would you recommend for that ? Spoilers or Flaps ?

If you are going to air catch the plane, then use flapperons. This is the way the hand launced and discus launched glider pilots do it. They glide in, then drop the ailerons as far as they will go and do any last minute flight adjustments with the rudder. This slows the plane rapidly while giving it the ability to fly at that slower speed.

Spoilers are helpful for spot landings on the ground, though I guess you could use them for hand catches. Spoilers kill the lift of the wing, so the plane will drop. If you mix in some elevator compensation it will settle flat for a nice belly landing. This can be very useful for spot landings.

radralph
10-20-2006, 08:31 PM
The DX6 is set up for flapperons. Not sure about spoilers. But I am confused a bit. If both Flaps and Spoilers move the ailerons down together what is the diff what the name is. Is it a matter of degrees deflection or location of the control surface or what?

Thanks,
Ralph

AEAJR
10-20-2006, 10:04 PM
The DX6 is set up for flapperons. Not sure about spoilers. But I am confused a bit. If both Flaps and Spoilers move the ailerons down together what is the diff what the name is. Is it a matter of degrees deflection or location of the control surface or what?

Thanks,
Ralph

Flappersons move both ailerons down. Spoilerons move both up. Usually in the setup menu you put in a %. If you put in a positive % they go one way. If you put in a negative % they go the other way. :)

radralph
10-21-2006, 08:05 AM
OK! Now I'm a little smarter, huh?

Thanks

AEAJR
08-24-2007, 04:27 AM
This was a great thread. Let's wake it up and see if we can add some more good stuff to it.

Who had a new e-glider that that they would like to tell us about?