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High Plains Thumper
03-01-2006, 01:05 PM
Hi,

I'm a small plane nitro flyer, who wants to give electric flight a try.

I have an original DMECO Livewire Kitten kit, which is a 34" span R/C high wing single channel plane designed in the early '50s.

It was originally designed for an .049 like OK Cub and then the new "lightweight" tube (valve) radio gear using 22.5 volt photoflash batteries for high voltage "B+" and pencells for tube heaters and relay operation, driving a motorized or rubber band powered escapement.

It seems it would be ideal for electric as the fuselage has more than adequate space to handle the weight of motor batteries. I plan to go 3 channels.

Someone has already pointed out to me a Bob Aberle Flying Models article dated in the mid '80s, where Bob did a remake for electric using a then available 400 motor.

I want to go for a brushless system, been looking at Great Planes ElectriFly’s™ RimFire™ 22M-1000 brushless motor. Is this an appropriate power system to use for the Kitten? Also, I'd like to go one up, instead of GP's 8 Amp ESC, may be go to a 12 or 15 Amp ESC, is this a good way to go?

Since LiPos can't be airmailed, I want to use NiMH, how many and what capacity cells should I be looking at?

TIA,
George

max-nix
03-01-2006, 03:06 PM
Wow, thats a keeper! It has been many moons since I have seen one fly..

If you use the Kitten airframe, what would you estimate the wing area & completed airframe weight to be? This info is crucial when selecting a power system.
NiMh batteries would be a good choice for the Kitten. The larger ESC would be preferred IMO.

Bob F :)

High Plains Thumper
03-02-2006, 12:51 PM
Wow, thats a keeper! It has been many moons since I have seen one fly..

If you use the Kitten airframe, what would you estimate the wing area & completed airframe weight to be? This info is crucial when selecting a power system.

NiMh batteries would be a good choice for the Kitten. The larger ESC would be preferred IMO.

Bob F :)
Bob, just off the top of my head, wing area is around 250 sq. inches and weight with modern .049 nitro and mini-flight pack would be around 14 ounces. It is not much different than the Mini-Mambo I had. One thing different is it has a lifting tail.

Someone else urged me to keep the kit, copy the plans and build with new wood. I don't know if that is necessary as the box is not in good condition and plans are discolored.

If someone is interested, I think Model Aviation plans service may have the plans under the John Pond category, unless one wants to purchase Flying Models' electric version.

Once I get this one under my belt and Hobby Lobby's Miss Stik Senior (a 55" span stick cabin resembling a pre-WW2 gassy, I think it is still on sale for $24), I might try and scratch build as electric R/C the 50" Scientific Varsity. It is about as pretty as they come and very light.

Does the Great Planes ElectriFly RimFire 22M-1000 brushless motor seem like a good choice to go with?

Laters, George :)

max-nix
03-03-2006, 02:20 AM
Yes the Rimfire will fly the Kitten, but you might consider shopping ebay
for example:

Item number: 6038132249
1850Rpm, Max 25A, Double Ball Bearing
Buy It Now price: US $35.90
Shipping Cost US $9

or

Item number: 7392586961
1280Rpm, Max 25A, Double Ball Bearing Support with 30A ESC
Buy It Now price: Approximately US $66.52
Shipping Cost US $20 ??

I mention this seller, RC Smart Store because I have dealt with him
multiple times with satisfaction.
This combo would be in the same price range and allow you to fly
larger, heavier models later, without much weight penalty now.

There are many motors on the market now and the choices get
confusing to say the least, I think having a goodly amount of power
is a good thing, you can always throttle back and cruise.

The Mini Mombo, hooray--- it was my first RC model many many
moons past. A real nice smooth air flyer.

I dont know if you are an ebay junky, but you can pay with pay pal
which makes thigs easy. I dont deal with anyone unless they have a
large feedback score and positive feedback close to 100%

The shipping from Hong Kong may take a few weeks, that is the
downside, but hey-- no sales tax, that is a good thing!

cheapbatterypacks.com is a good battery source.

Bob
Just my 20 cents (inflation adjusted)

PS I have to admit I am addicted to power as I flew control line speed for years :>)

Rosie
03-03-2006, 02:54 AM
I have a Kitten almosgt finished. If you come up with a good motor, battery,
controller system let me know.

John.rossetti056@sympatico.ca

ragbag
03-03-2006, 11:41 PM
If someone is interested, I think Model Aviation plans service may have the plans under the John Pond category, unless one wants to purchase Flying Models' electric version.
Once I get this one under my belt and Hobby Lobby's Miss Stik Senior (a 55" span stick cabin resembling a pre-WW2 gassy, I think it is still on sale for $24), I might try and scratch build as electric R/C the 50" Scientific Varsity. It is about as pretty as they come and very light.


Laters, George :)

George,
Where can I find the Flying Models electric version that you refer to, I have an inteest in it.

I have just received the Miss Stik and the Miss Stik Jr.

If I could get the Kitten I would probably start on it first.

By George
Yeah, I'm a George also.

High Plains Thumper
03-04-2006, 12:03 AM
George,
Where can I find the Flying Models electric version that you refer to, I have an inteest in it.

I have just received the Miss Stik and the Miss Stik Jr.

If I could get the Kitten I would probably start on it first.

By George
Yeah, I'm a George also.George, go to http://www.flying-models.com, click on "Plans Directory" on the left hand menu bar.

I did a search on "kitten" and came up with this entry:

CF994 - Live Wire Kitten, R/C Electric, Aberle, Bob, 34", 06/96, $8.00
Electric powered replica of Hal DeBolt's 1950s design. Speed 400 motor, Graupner 1:85:1 gearbox and 7 cells, 3 channel R/C.

Laters, George :)

High Plains Thumper
03-04-2006, 12:21 AM
Yes the Rimfire will fly the Kitten, but you might consider shopping ebay for example:

Item number: 6038132249
1850Rpm, Max 25A, Double Ball Bearing Buy It Now price: US $35.90 Shipping Cost US $9

or

Item number: 7392586961
1280Rpm, Max 25A, Double Ball Bearing Support with 30A ESC Buy It Now price: Approximately US $66.52 Shipping Cost US $20 ??

I mention this seller, RC Smart Store because I have dealt with him multiple times with satisfaction. This combo would be in the same price range and allow you to fly larger, heavier models later, without much weight penalty now.Thanks for the tip.
The Mini Mombo, hooray--- it was my first RC model many many moons past. A real nice smooth air flyer.Yes, it was was a very smooth flyer, I flew it back in the '80s with a throttled Cox .049 R/C Bee, Ace Pulse Commander with KRD quick blip sequential throttle servo (hi-med-lo) and Stomper actuator. It would loop and barrel roll like crazy.
I dont know if you are an ebay junky, but you can pay with pay pal which makes thigs easy. I dont deal with anyone unless they have a large feedback score and positive feedback close to 100%

The shipping from Hong Kong may take a few weeks, that is the downside, but hey-- no sales tax, that is a good thing!

cheapbatterypacks.com is a good battery source.I'll give em a look.
Bob
Just my 20 cents (inflation adjusted)In Japan, they have the dollar store equivalent, called 100 Yen store. Interestingly enough, some items have a "Made in China" label.PS I have to admit I am addicted to power as I flew control line speed for years :>)I got my start in C/L, built scads of Scientific .049 models. First nitro model was the F6F Hellcat.

Laters, George :)

Sky Sharkster
03-07-2006, 11:14 AM
Hi Guys, I'm not trying to hijack this thread but thought those interested in the DeBolt, Goldberg and Willard designs from the '50's and '60's might like to know about another source;
http://www.earlyrcmodels.com has been selling laser-cut kits of "pioneer" designers for several years. Right now they are in a transition, the company has been sold to;
http://www.wingmfg.com but you can still access the site thru "EarlyRC" Link. There's a partial list of available kits on the "Vintage and Old Timers" Forum, as well as links to many other vendors.
So many planes, so little time!
Ron

ragbag
03-07-2006, 12:01 PM
Hi Guys, Right now they are in a transition, the company has been sold to;
http://www.wingmfg.com but you can still access the site thru "EarlyRC" Link. There's a partial list of available kits on the "Vintage and Old Timers" Forum, as well as links to many other vendors.
So many planes, so little time!
Ron

I have ordered the Schoolboy and the Mini Mambo from Wing already. They are waiting for their boxes to come in, then they will ship them.

It is stock that they got in the transition, so I was in luck and did not have to wait for them to set up production of the Early RC products they will be selling.

easytiger
03-07-2006, 02:05 PM
I have a LW kitten I have flown QUITE extensively using a PAW 03 diesel. Pretty much anything would fly it, electric-wise.

max-nix
03-07-2006, 02:29 PM
Good motor selection at:
http://www.justgofly.com/

Bob F

billmod12
12-17-2007, 02:38 PM
Has anyone converted a li'l esquire by midwest. I have one from the late 50s. It has a 40" wing and is very similar to the mini and the kitten. I have not been in the electrics long enough to know the ins and outs to choose the proper power plant. Need advice and opinions. Thanks Bill

Sparky Paul
12-17-2007, 05:24 PM
I would expect a 370 or 400 outrunner on 3 cells would be more than adequate for the L'il Esquire.
What's fun with these oldies and goodies is to put the elevator on dual rates. Set one side of the rates to zero, so the plane becomes rudder only. The other is whatever works for the elevator.
Lots of fun to fly like we -had to- in the good old days! :)

billmod12
12-17-2007, 07:02 PM
When I was flying it (1960) rudder only I was useing a Citizen Ship SE-2 escapement powered by a rubberband and a single channel radio. I would manually adjust /trim for a long left turn in case the radio failed it would not fly away.(common in those days) 1 blip on the transmitter was right and 2 blips was left. I would fly it all day long while my dad was flying his 10 channel debolt Cruiser. Slow and easy does it! I think I could dial it in to fly the same on electric.

babyflitestreak
01-03-2008, 05:22 AM
My dad has an original Livewire Kitten that he's working on. He plans on using a geared 300 or direct drive 400, with NiCads.

The Lil' Esquire...
I have one that I built for a glow engine a few years ago and plan on converting it to electric using a geared speed 400 & NiCads or NiMH pack