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View Full Version : Sig Rascal .40 not just for training anymore


MTwallet
03-07-2006, 03:57 AM
Hi guys, I have converted a Sig Rascal .40 to electric using a sp480 size BL motor and it hovers.
I love this plane except the roll rate is too slow, but it is definitly not just a trainer, it's a sport plane too. :D

Here's a couple little vids. One from a few weeks ago when there was still some snow on the ground, the other from the other day.

http://videos.pitsbros.com/Sig Rascal.40 re-maiden.wmv

http://www.rsklogic.com/edkoz/files/rascal.wmv

Whattya think?


Mike

Twmaster
03-07-2006, 04:08 AM
Um, holy cow. Less than 5 pounds?

The reason I ask is that I have a Rascal 40 (also blue) and it has a Kontroniks geared speed 600 under the hood with a setup making ~425W. It flew too fast and now I can see why. So fast the previous owner kept wrecking it. I need to get a wing for her so she can fly again!

How did the batteries do? I noted the clip said 5 cell 1P. Mine was flying on a 4S1P 2000 Kokam.

MTwallet
03-07-2006, 11:53 AM
Yeah, it's about 4.5lbs.

I am running a geared Mega 16/25/3 on a 5s1p Apogee 2480 or Tanic 2450. It swings a 14x10 APCe prop and pulls less than 30A, and I get about 450+W

I made a battery tray and a hatch on the bottom behind the gear with a cooling air exit hole. I still need to open up the firewall for the intake air but it has been cold here and my batteries do not get hot right now.

I guesstimate the speed to be about 65mph, not that fast but fast enough.

This is my second wing on this bird as well. My first one crashed due to a faulty Medusa BEC. I sent it back and am still waiting on the replacement. A new wing kit will run you about $100, and comes with both panels, built and covered just like it comes from the box.

I am also using the GWS Park HPX servos. These are great, they have almost as much torque as a standard servo, and quite a bit faster, but are only a little bigger and heavier than a HS81.

This thing is so easy to fly, I can't understand how someone could keep wrecking one. I can be difficult to land, but only cause it likes to fly and glides. A little practice and you can land her in a relatively small field like I did in the second vid above.


Mike

retiredVTT
03-07-2006, 09:57 PM
Nice second video ...you must have spoken to your cameraman after the first video ...as to "wait for the plane" ...!

"Yup" to your question ...should a rascal do this ...hence the name R-A-S-C-A-L ..!


Looks real nice with the pants on ..!

Nice power setup, I have one of those motors and some 3S 2100 prolites so I'll try a 6S setup this year probably in a Impuls3D from NES.

Thanks for the info and the vids..

Bill

TopSpin
03-07-2006, 10:03 PM
I run an AXI 2212/26, APC 10X5 E prop, and TP 3S2100 LiPo battery in my Rascal, results are astounding. Full verticle, not unlimited but about the same as I saw in the video, I can also hover. Don't know what the current draw is since I never measured it but flight times are better than 30 minutes if you don't run it wide open the whole time.

I also have a Mega 16/25-6 in my EP-42 Kadet. I run an APC 10X6 E on it and a 3S2100 LiPo also. The performance is as you would expect and way more fun than the stock motor. As you probably guessed, I'm a big fan of direct drive. I do have some HighMax motors and gear boxes but gears can be a problem at times. Anyway, nice video on the Rascal, it's a great plane once you get some fire in it.

retiredVTT
03-07-2006, 10:20 PM
"I run an AXI 2212/26, APC 10X5 E prop, and TP 3S2100 LiPo battery in my Rascal,"...

..are we talking the same size Rascal..?

I don't think so..!

Bill

sailr
03-07-2006, 11:34 PM
sounds like the LITTLE rascal with a 2212 axi in it.

ENUT
03-08-2006, 12:28 AM
Mike very KOOOOOOOOOOOL:D .Nice work by your camera man;)

ENUT

RickM
03-08-2006, 12:41 AM
I admire you "cold Weather" guys.....

TopSpin
03-08-2006, 01:04 AM
"I run an AXI 2212/26, APC 10X5 E prop, and TP 3S2100 LiPo battery in my Rascal,"...

..are we talking the same size Rascal..?

I don't think so..!

Bill

No, not the little rascal, but it is smaller than yours. The SIG Rascal electric is a 50 in. wing span and about 2 lbs. The Rascal .40 is 70 in. wing span and 5 1/2 lbs. They fly about the same, my point was that the Rascal design equiped with a good brushless motor really comes alive. You have to admit your performance and control is better than it was with a .40 slimer.

The Mega motor in the Kadet is a real blast, if you get the chance try it..

MTwallet
03-08-2006, 03:51 AM
Wow, thanks for all the compliments guys.

Bill and ENUT, the camera man in the first video was trying out his new cam. It doesn't have a viewfinder just a LCD screen. I have no problem taking video of him like that, but that's his story and he's stickin to it.:rolleyes:
The camera man in the second video did the editing before giving me the file to post (he has a viewfinder).

RickM, I live in Michigan and it's Winter, if you don't fly when it's cold outside, you don't fly at all. Even though it has been a very mild Winter for the most part, we did get quite a bit of snow this year, it just never stuck around long. It was a lot of fun flying in the snow with the skis on her though.:)

Bill, I used this motor on 6s when I put it in my 4.5lbs, GP Venus .40 this past Winter too. I was putting over 600W through a Cobri gearbox.
That will be way overkill for the 52oz Impulse 3D. I like it.:D

Seriously though I used a Mega 16/15/4 on a 5s setup in my 52oz Seduction Freestyle last year. It had PLENTY of power. Here is a vid of the maiden to that...
http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14689&sort=1&cat=500&page=1





MT

Twmaster
03-08-2006, 05:50 AM
MT, Thanks for the info. I need to get her fixed up.

waynezz
03-08-2006, 06:48 AM
Hi guys, love the look of the Rascal and am keen to build one. Does anyone know where a plan may be found?

wim
03-08-2006, 07:27 AM
Hi guys, love the look of the Rascal and am keen to build one. Does anyone know where a plan may be found?

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV4.html?E+Sig

MTwallet
03-09-2006, 02:59 AM
Wim, if you build one, build it with ailerons but make them almost full span. The only kit of a Rascal is the 49 incher, so I assume that would be the only plan available since the rest are all ARF's and it doesn't have ailerons, so you'd have to scale it up anyway and while you're bashing the plan you could do the aileron mod.

So far the small ailerons and slow roll rate are my only complaint against this beautiful Oldtimer, I know, I know. That is a contridiction of terms (roll rate and Oldtimer) but that's how I feel. Otherwise, I love this plane!


Mike

Twmaster
03-09-2006, 03:02 AM
Hehe, The 49 inch model is a great sized bird. I just bought two (one red, one blue) of the Nitro ARF 49"er for E-conversion. One day I -will- fly a 110" kit on E-power.

It's a sickness man. :D

MTwallet
03-09-2006, 03:19 AM
Hehe, The 49 inch model is a great sized bird. I just bought two (one red, one blue) of the Nitro ARF 49"er for E-conversion. One day I -will- fly a 110" kit on E-power.

It's a sickness man. :D
I saw the 110"er fly with "E" power once. It was a beautiful site. If memory serves... he had some power system that he bought online and it consisted of a custom gearbox and DeWalt drill motor. I think he was running on 20 nicad cells.
This was a couple years ago and the BL motors and lipos weren't as abundant and relatively inexpensive as they are now.

From then on I knew I had to have a Rascal. I started with the Lil' Rascal, but that is another story altogether. That thing did about 60-70mph too and for it's size, it looked a lot faster than that. What a blast that was. Had to fly it like a pylon racer at the smaller fields. Was interesting to land too 'cause it would just keep gliding. Slowed down eventually, with no tip stall or other bad habits, just a good fun little plane. My buddy bought it from me after I got the .40 size model.


MT

Dereck
03-10-2006, 09:10 PM
IF - and its a big IF - you could get hold of the plan, Loudoun COunty Aeromodeler Ron Anderson did a neat version he calls the 'Park Rascal" at around 3' span - I have one in the basement, but that's too far to run downstairs just to measure it! Ron's was closely based on the original Sig Rascal rubber model - which is somewhat 'fatter' in the fuselage than the present rash of BARFs in various sizes.

Yes, I did think about fitting ailerons to mine! But take Ron's plan, blow it up and add ailerons and lower dihedral from the off and you'd have a real hot number. I also thought of shortening the span, like was done with the J3 to make it into the famous clipwing variant.

I've seen a video of the 40 sized BARF Rascal being wrung-out in a very showie fashion a couple of years ago - it's obviously still a high-winger, but can move in aerobatic fashion. I can't recall the motor, but it was flying on around 16 big roundies - this was before we were all advertised at to fly lipos...

But you still end up with a high winger being forced around aerobatics. Now, if you take the wing and move it down some - to the bottom of the fuselage... :)

Regards

Dereck

Twmaster
03-10-2006, 10:32 PM
I saw the 110"er fly with "E" power once. It was a beautiful site. If memory serves... he had some power system that he bought online and it consisted of a custom gearbox and DeWalt drill motor. I think he was running on 20 nicad cells.
This was a couple years ago and the BL motors and lipos weren't as abundant and relatively inexpensive as they are now.

Sounds like a Tom Hunt belt unit with the DeWalt motor(s). One of the fellows who flies with us now and then has a 110" he was planning to convert. Even bought the belt unit/motor for it. I might have to ping him.

From then on I knew I had to have a Rascal. I started with the Lil' Rascal, but that is another story altogether. That thing did about 60-70mph too and for it's size, it looked a lot faster than that. What a blast that was. Had to fly it like a pylon racer at the smaller fields. Was interesting to land too 'cause it would just keep gliding. Slowed down eventually, with no tip stall or other bad habits, just a good fun little plane. My buddy bought it from me after I got the .40 size model.

I fell in love with the plane the first time I saw one of the 49" ARFs at Hobby City. I shall resurect this .40 bird. I swear I will! In the meanwhile I have one each new red and blue 49" nitro Rascals to monkey with.

:D

MTwallet
03-11-2006, 05:08 PM
Sounds like a Tom Hunt belt unit with the DeWalt motor(s). One of the fellows who flies with us now and then has a 110" he was planning to convert. Even bought the belt unit/motor for it. I might have to ping him.



I fell in love with the plane the first time I saw one of the 49" ARFs at Hobby City. I shall resurect this .40 bird. I swear I will! In the meanwhile I have one each new red and blue 49" nitro Rascals to monkey with.

:D
Now that you mention it, I think it was a belt drive system. So that prolly was the Tom Hunt unit.

I had to buy new wing for mine also. I had a crash when my brand new Medusa BEC stopped working upon final approach on my second 5 minute flight right after the maiden.
It was kinda expensive ('bout $100 or 1/2 the cost of a new ARF) but I felt it was worth it since I thought the plane still owed me something after only 2 short flights. I'm glad I put her back together now.
Here is a pic right before the first maiden and one about 20 minutes later.


MT

Twmaster
03-11-2006, 05:18 PM
Owie! Well she sure does look and fly great Mike. Yea I guess the next spare $100 I have will have to go to ordering a wing.

MTwallet
03-11-2006, 05:34 PM
Owie! Well she sure does look and fly great Mike. Yea I guess the next spare $100 I have will have to go to ordering a wing.
Thanks Mike,
I forgot to mention that the $100 gets you a whole new wing, both panels built and covered, new metal joiner/dihedral brace and steel locator pin and new servo mounts/covers.

After the crash, I had to rebuid the mount for the landing gear and replace a lot of the wood on the bottom and recover. While I was at it I added the battery tray and a hatch on the bottom with a cooling hole for the air to exit. I also had to rebuild my motor mount. I was really surprised at how well the plane took the crash. When it went in, I thought for sure it was a total.


Mike

MTwallet
03-27-2006, 02:14 AM
Was out flying today when the 5-O showed up to the park. They saw me flying and started with a bunch of questions that my buddies fielded as I was kinda busy, you know, flying.

Anyway, one of my buddies asked if he had a radar gun in his car. he said "No, but I have a lazer but It would be too hard to track a model plane with it. But I think I can get a radar over here for ya." http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/cool.gif

In about 10 minutes two more cops showed up, one with radar in his vehicle. After a quick battery change, I was then instructed to fly full throttle right at him. I told him I hoped he had good insurance and then I went for it.

After about 6 runs I could repeat a straight and level speed of about 65mph with my "E" converted Rascal .40. My max speed registered was 72mph from a very slight dive and before I poured on the coals. I wasn't too interested in the dive speed anyway, mostly just the straight and level speed. I have heard stories of these planes' wings blowing up at very high speeds so I usually don't dive under power because of that.

Anyway, I am very happy to see the results of that. Looks like my original guesstimate of 60-65mph was pretty good. I'm still liking this plane more and more every time I fly it. http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


MT

DickCorby
03-27-2006, 03:03 AM
I had to buy new wing for mine also. I had a crash when my brand new Medusa BEC stopped working upon final approach on my second 5 minute flight right after the maiden.
MT
Not sure about the ESC you had fail, but with a Jeti 40 Amp ESC (that isn't cheap) I had the same problem. I cut the red wire, installed a FMA VRL1 and a 2S-1P 1500 MAH 7.4 Volt pack and was back in the air. I'm beginning to bypass all my ESC's on the planes drawing 30-40 Amps and putting in the VRL1. Having lost a couple of planes because the BEC failed, I think this is cheap insurance. Adds about 3-4 ounces, but most planes drawing that much current can handle that.

MTwallet
03-27-2006, 03:13 AM
Not sure about the ESC you had fail, but with a Jeti 40 Amp ESC (that isn't cheap) I had the same problem. I cut the red wire, installed a FMA VRL1 and a 2S-1P 1500 MAH 7.4 Volt pack and was back in the air. I'm beginning to bypass all my ESC's on the planes drawing 30-40 Amps and putting in the VRL1. Having lost a couple of planes because the BEC failed, I think this is cheap insurance. Adds about 3-4 ounces, but most planes drawing that much current can handle that.
Thanks Dick, but that problem has been remedied. The BEC unit was external to the ESC and I think is pretty much like the unit you are using except it gets it's voltage from the flight pack instead of a separate lipo source. All in all, it's just a switching type voltage regulator like yours.



MT

DickCorby
03-27-2006, 03:20 AM
Probably a UBEC. I looked in that direction, but was told that they are in the same level as a BEC. They too are subjet to failure, and cause the loss of the plane. Using the external Battery and voltage regulator (like the IMAC guys do) there is virtually no way you will lose the signal to the receiver and the servos.

MTwallet
03-27-2006, 03:36 AM
Using the external Battery and voltage regulator (like the IMAC guys do) there is virtually no way you will lose the signal to the receiver and the servos.
Unless the regulator fails, which is what happened to me. It's still a single point of failure, if it goes, you can usually kiss your plane goodbye. I think the IMAC guys use the setup y have mostly because the UBEC's available cannot handle the voltage that they are running in those large planes, OR, they are using a glow or gas plane and want to increase battery capacity without adding too much weight and need a regulator to knock the voltage of the 2s lipo down so as not ot burn out the RX. And they usually use two of them for redundancy. At least the smart ones do.


MT

drksyd
03-29-2006, 06:17 AM
Good to see your Rascal still going. I retired mine after the motor ripped out. Luckily was able to bring her down without damage but she's seen better days.

DickCorby
03-29-2006, 06:30 AM
That's absolutely true. Any Electronic device is subject to failure. Including the voltage regulators. But in my experience, running 4 or more servos on the BEC's gets them pretty hot, and that leads to failure. The Voltage regulators do 2 things for me. Allow the Receiver and Servos to get a constant (in theory) 6 volts, and they have more hardy circuitry than the BEc tends to have. We all have our ways of doing things, and if someone uses my idea and it saves their plane, I have succeeded.

MTwallet
03-29-2006, 11:59 AM
Dick, I don't think we are on the same page, I was not using the BEC of the ESC, I was using this... http://www.medusaproducts.com/Other/BECs/MR-BEC-45035.htm
It is supposed to be good for up to 8 standard servos, I was using 4 mini's. Puts out a constant 5 or 6v, and good to 3.5A constant and 4A peak depending on which unit you have, mine was the 5v/3.5A unit.
It IS a switching type votage regulator, that's all it is really. It only hooks up off the main pack instead of a separate pack like yours, I'm pretty sure that is the only real difference.



MT