PDA

View Full Version : Bristol M1C foam scratch built


degreen60
11-19-2009, 04:31 AM
I am making a Bristol M1C using a printed paper airplane enlarged and glued on foam for the fuselage.

Ryan Flyer
11-19-2009, 03:16 PM
Nice plane!
Pat

7car7
11-19-2009, 04:01 PM
That's pretty slick. I've been kicking around the idea of making something similar (Moraine A1) with similar construction. Will be fun to see it progress.

degreen60
11-19-2009, 06:06 PM
When I cut this one out I cut at an angle so the foam would fit together. I made the angle cut too much. It don't take much of an angle for the foam to fit back together. Also where the foam fits togerher at the bottom of the front of the fuselage I should have cut the foam just a little smaller then the paper, the paper has a small gap. I will cover the gap with small pieces of paper printed the same color. I will cover other gaps too, just hope it don't show. Will find out when I do it but should look okey.

degreen60
11-19-2009, 06:15 PM
That's pretty slick. I've been kicking around the idea of making something similar (Moraine A1) with similar construction. Will be fun to see it progress.

I have files for printed MS 30E1, I, and N if you want them. I plan on painting the wings and not use printed paper.

7car7
11-19-2009, 09:42 PM
I have files for printed MS 30E1, I, and N if you want them. I plan on painting the wings and not use printed paper.

I would love a copy of the MS 30E1. A site says it's the trainer version - does that mean a 2 seater version? Or just no gun? Lovely plane.

PaperAirplane
11-19-2009, 10:22 PM
Subscribed!

degreen60
11-20-2009, 12:36 AM
I would love a copy of the MS 30E1. A site says it's the trainer version - does that mean a 2 seater version? Or just no gun? Lovely plane.

Single seat, no gun, parasol monoplane. Send me an email and I will email the file to you. Do you have a program to enlarge the plane and tile print it? I use PosteRazor. It is a free program found on the net. I can email it too if you want.

TM4197
11-21-2009, 11:27 PM
DG60....not sure if you have this or not...but some great shots.


http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Bri/BrisM1c/index.html

degreen60
11-25-2009, 02:53 PM
Wing brace wire supports, landing gear legs, and fuselage front installed.

degreen60
11-26-2009, 05:22 AM
Tail feathers installed.

7car7
11-27-2009, 02:44 AM
I like it! Very nice.

degreen60
11-28-2009, 09:42 AM
Servos are installed with pull-pull hook-up.

baz49exe
11-28-2009, 01:23 PM
What a great idea! Looking forward to the maiden flight.

degreen60
11-30-2009, 02:35 PM
Made cowl using 2 liter bottles.

baz49exe
11-30-2009, 05:19 PM
That's really looking good!:D

degreen60
12-02-2009, 05:37 PM
Wings installed.

dbcisco
12-02-2009, 06:20 PM
Made cowl using 2 liter bottles.

Thanks for recycling. Great tip too!

degreen60
12-03-2009, 04:45 AM
Wheels, tail skid, and brace wires installed.

floss
12-03-2009, 05:55 AM
Nice work, WS?

degreen60
12-03-2009, 12:44 PM
WS is 39 inches. I cut a set of GWS Cub wings to shape. As is sets the length is 21 inches. I think the spinner will make the length 22.25 inches which will make scale about 1/11. That makes the wings about 6 inches longer than scale. As it sets it weights 6.5 oz. I have an old brushless motor from a computer tape drive that I hope will have enough power to fly it.

dbcisco
12-03-2009, 01:30 PM
How are you using the CDrom motors? Rewinding? What ESC?
Inquiring minds want to know.:ws:

degreen60
12-03-2009, 02:17 PM
How are you using the CDrom motors? Rewinding? What ESC?
Inquiring minds want to know.:ws:

Not a CDrom motor. This motor is a tape drive motor. It is a little larger and has ball bearings. I tried several rewinds till I got the motor to turn a 9x7 prop at 4000rpm on 2s, 32 watts. The motor is now 20turns of #26. It will turn a 7x6 prop 5300 rpm. If this motor will not fly the plane I will order a 2410-09 for it. The 2410-09 should fly this plane at half throtle or less. I have another plane about the same size and weight as this one, it has a 2410-09 with 10x7 prop and flyes real nice at less than half throtle for over 30 min on an old 2s 1200. It turns the 10x7 prop 4000 RPM at 43 watts. I just use a cheap 30 amp ESC I paid about $11 for at Dealextreme.

dbcisco
12-03-2009, 04:02 PM
Have you ever tried using the computer BL motors "as is" without rewinding?

degreen60
12-03-2009, 04:40 PM
Have you ever tried using the computer BL motors "as is" without rewinding?

The motors will not turn a large prop fast enough unless rewound. I am wondering if I made a twin engine caudron g4 if 2 cdrom motors unmodified turning small props would have the power it fly it.

dbcisco
12-03-2009, 05:13 PM
That is what I thought. I have seen them "as is" on tiny (peanut scale?) planes with custom ESCs. The stock Wye configuration isn't best for our applications either.

degreen60
12-03-2009, 07:07 PM
That is what I thought. I have seen them "as is" on tiny (peanut scale?) planes with custom ESCs. The stock Wye configuration isn't best for our applications either.

Another thing, the CDrom motors have bushings, the tape drive motors I rewound have ball bearings. I don't know how long the motors with bushings will last but sence I get them for nothing I can always replace them. The CDrom motors have short shafts, some CDrom have 3mm shafts for head guides. I use these to replace motor shafts.

dbcisco
12-03-2009, 09:04 PM
Your chock full of good info Degreen! Thanks!

degreen60
12-04-2009, 11:18 AM
Motor installed, needs receiver, battery holder and it will be ready for test flight. After a good flight and the controls are trimed to where I want them at the servos I will install a pilot. I get to servos to change trim through the cockpit opening. Still needs gun too.

dbcisco
12-04-2009, 12:35 PM
Looking nice Degreen!

7car7
12-04-2009, 04:24 PM
It's funny you mentioned the cub wings. I have a set that I bought just for the same purpose - kit bashing. Not sure what I'll come up with, but eventually want to use them for something.

Very cool plane you've come up with. The fuse turned out really well. It's a "voluptuous" craft isn't it!;-)

degreen60
12-04-2009, 05:30 PM
I have another set of yellow wings that are not GWS Cub wings, slighty smaller than the GWS Cub. I hope to build a Junkers D1 using them. Horrors, thats a German plane. I crashed my DVII the other day and need to rebuild it, I think what really happened my SE5A attacked it on take off.

IndyJones
12-05-2009, 01:51 AM
Degreen, nice job on the plane! Can't wait to see in-flight pics!

PaperAirplane
12-05-2009, 02:29 AM
Very nice!

degreen60
12-06-2009, 04:03 PM
It flys, but wanted to pull right and is very sensitive to rudder control. I think the wings are flexing too much. I need to add small pieces of thin plywood to the wings where brace wires go through them. I am happy that the tape drive motor will fly the plane with a 9x7 prop. The plane flew around rocking like a cradle as I kept trying to hold it straight with the rudder.

floss
12-07-2009, 08:17 AM
I did just that on an EIII that I built, sunk small plywood inserts in to the wings to anchor the rigging. Worked well.

Great build, don't see many Bristols being done.

degreen60
12-07-2009, 11:32 AM
I got the idea for the plywood reinforcement from a JR kit I build of the Morane Saulnier N. The kit had the reinforcement on top of the wing only. I added it to the bottom of the wing too. I did not glue brace wire to the wing but tied a knot in it each side of the wing. On this plane I put a piece of sticker where the brace wires went through the wing but sticker material is not strong enough.

7car7
12-07-2009, 03:15 PM
It flys, but wanted to pull right and is very sensitive to rudder control. .

When you say sensitive, do you mean it's too twitchy? How is it at correcting itself?

degreen60
12-07-2009, 03:35 PM
When you say sensitive, do you mean it's too twitchy? How is it at correcting itself?

Best I could get it to trim was in a right turn, even with motor off, even a slight bit of left rudder would cause a quick left turn. I found on landing the wings had not stayed glued to the fuselage. I reglued them using a different glue. I now have the brace wires reinforced where they go through the wing and ready for next test flight.

degreen60
12-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Printed paper and foam gun added. I also added a little more offset thrust to the motor. The wing has a 6.25 inch cord. The the COG was 1.5 inches back of leading edge which is close to 25%, I have now added a small weight to the nose and the COG is 1.25 inches back of leading edge. I am hoping this will make the plane fly more stable.

degreen60
12-16-2009, 06:07 PM
I found out what was causing the problem when I gave rudder input. I changed motor angle a slight bit and that made the plane fly straight but a slight bit of rudder would cause the plane to bank a lot, letting off the rudder would cause the plane to bank the other way a lot. After every turn the plane would rock so much back and forth it was very hard to control and just had to fight it and land the best I could, thank goodness for hay fields. The problem was cause by the shape of the wing tips. I used a GWS Cub wing cut to shape. The Cub wing has an under chambered airfoil. When I cut the wing tips, almost 1/3 of the wing, I removed the leading edge that helped form the airfoil and the last 1/3 of wing become almost flat with a high angle of attack. I am sure when turning the wing tip stalled. I found I could form a new leading edge in the foam my bending with my fingers. I just did another test flight and made several laps. It is still very sensitive to rudder so I am going to cut down rudder movement. I am also going to remove the added weight in the nose. At least on this flight I could let go of the rudder and the plane would fly level.

7car7
12-16-2009, 09:25 PM
So, if I'm understanding you right, it was flying with a lot of "wash-in" instead of a trailing outer edge lifted up, being "wash-out".

Is that right?

degreen60
12-16-2009, 10:41 PM
So, if I'm understanding you right, it was flying with a lot of "wash-in" instead of a trailing outer edge lifted up, being "wash-out".

Is that right?

Right. I still don't like the way it flys. Going to try a few more things.

floss
12-17-2009, 07:30 AM
I thought a good bit of wash-out would have solved this for sure. With no ailerons how much dihedral is there?

degreen60
12-17-2009, 08:50 AM
I thought a good bit of wash-out would have solved this for sure. With no ailerons how much dihedral is there?

It has 2.5 inches. It is easy to change dihedral, it is set by the forward wing brace wires. My other planes fly with about an inch of dihedral and need lots of rudder throw. This one banks right over if you move the stick at all. Then when you let go it banks the other way then rocks back and forth before going to level flight. I tried bending some wash-out in the wing tips but the trailing edge does not bend as easy as the leading edge, I think I have added some. The COG is at about 23%. I am going to move it to 20% and see if that helps too.

degreen60
12-17-2009, 01:58 PM
I put 5 inches of dihedral in the wing and took it for a test flight. It flew ok but still rocked some and sure looked funny in the air. I flew it till a wing broke probably from all the tension on the brace wire holding all that dihedral in the wings. This is a really strong fuselage, it hit almost straight in from about 70 feet up into frozen ground. The plywood firewall broke, landing gear legs came out of fuselage, and back wing spar ripped upward in the fuselage. The only repair I have to do to the fuselage is where the spar ripped it, 2 little half inch rips. I will just put new pieces of paper over the rip to hid the repair.

7car7
12-17-2009, 05:16 PM
THat's a bummer. Sure sounds like it's a wingtip issue - sounds like the plane is "hunting" for a stable spot.

degreen60
12-17-2009, 09:45 PM
After I get everything fixed(which shouldn't take long) I am going to change the dihedral back to where the plane don't look so strange. I am going to program the rudder as small movement as I can. Also going to move the COG from the 25% it is now to 20% or less. The British said in WW1 that the plane was too unsafe to fly and the landing speed was way too fast at 49 MPH. Maybe the real plane wanted to roll with rudder movement like my model does. Just a touch of rudder will give about a 45 degree bank. To me this is what makes scratch building fun. I know the secert to it flying is somewhere I just need to find it.

7car7
12-18-2009, 09:05 PM
To me this is what makes scratch building fun. I know the secert to it flying is somewhere I just need to find it.

Exactly. Very true. And you will find it.

degreen60
12-29-2009, 03:14 PM
Cold this morning(17F) with snow on the ground but no wind and sunny. Took the M1C out for test and it flys. I had to hold full up so I will add up trim at the servo. Changes I made were add 1.5oz weight at the nose, cut rudder movement to 50%. The weight moved COG from 25% to 18%. Because of the shape of the wing it probably needs forward COG. I think COG was the problem. I have 2.5 inches of dihedral in the wing. After I get the plane in trim and flying good I hope I can take the dihedral to an inch, that is what I have in most of my planes.

degreen60
01-14-2010, 09:14 PM
Almost in trim now. I had to hold a little right rudder to flight straight so after landing I moved rudder trim at the servo. It uses very little rudder movement to turn. It has about 1/2 inch total rudder movement. With the shape and tan color of the wings it looks like a hawk in the air.

degreen60
01-15-2010, 03:14 PM
Finally it is in trim and flys nice. Even with the little tape drive motor I do not fly on WOT. I can now make it float in for a landing. Very little rudder makes it turn and a little more rudder takes it in to a wingover dive which would be just what you needed in WW1 if the enemy go on your tail. If you take it into the wingover dive you better be ready to bring it out of the dive cause it will not come out on its own. The generals at the time wanted a stable plane for observation and said this plane was too unstable and landed to fast at 49mph to be safe so it was sent to training squardons.

79CJ
01-15-2010, 08:22 PM
The generals at the time wanted a stable plane for observation and said this plane was too unstable and landed to fast at 49mph to be safe so it was sent to training squardons.

That sure sounds like WWI. I think by later in the war the low level officers finnally started to understand that the men weren't just cannon fodder. The casual disregard for life is astounding though.

BTW, the plane looks great, glad you got it trimmed out.

degreen60
01-21-2010, 08:30 PM
The plane is finished. The pilot is in the cockpit and ready to go fly.

Ryan Flyer
01-21-2010, 09:27 PM
Look Nice!

TM4197
01-21-2010, 10:32 PM
Very nice job! Looks fantastic!

dbcisco
01-21-2010, 11:46 PM
I'm wondering about the effect the nose cowl covering half the prop has on thrust.

TM4197
01-22-2010, 12:06 AM
I have a BF109 that has alot of its prop covered as well, it dosnt seem to bother the performance, I have flown with and without the nose spinner, and really didnt see any difference.

degreen60
01-22-2010, 12:20 AM
Spinner has no affect on the prop. The fuselage also covers that area of the prop. If the plane had a profile fuselage the spinner might have an affect on the prop. I have a MS-L with a large spinner and it is the same way. Both planes fly the same with or without spinner.

dbcisco
01-22-2010, 02:29 AM
Thanks. I always wondered about that.