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View Full Version : proctor eindecker lll reduced to 1/6 scale scratchbuilt


DCflyer
02-25-2010, 03:25 AM
i'm starting a new thread on my next build. it will be a proctor eindecker reduced to 1/6 scale ( 66" wingspan ) . everything will be scratchbuilt including guns and motor. this will be an electric plane with a full working cockpit. i didn't know quite where to start on this project wings, fuse or tail feathers so i choose the fuselage. i was going to go with a aluminum frame useing a product called durafix to weld it together but have not mastered it yet so i decided to go with the proctor wooden dowel frame. i choose 1/4" hard maple dowel. first things first, i needed 40 scaled down brass 5-way anchor fittings and being able to do my own etching that's where i started. they have to be incorperated between the longerons and verticals while your building the frame. here are some pics of the etching process of those anchor fittings from design in coreldraw to making a two sided film on an inkjet printer and then registering the film on both sides of a 3 and 1/2"x 4" piece of 0.15 brass plate treated with photo resist already, exposing the plate to U.V. light and then rinseing the image area. at this point its ready to go into the tank of hot ferric cloride and citric acid mixture. i use aprox. 32 oz. of etching solution to get my tank to the level it needs to be at. you also need a good airiator. i made mine out of styrene ( has to be plastic or ceramic otherwise the solution will eat it up) and power it with a small air brush compresser. i made the airiator out of 0.60 styrene 3.5"x5"x 1/4" deep and put together with testors models cement. i also drilled about 200 1/64" holes in the top , this is where the air escapes. ive used all sorts of tanks from molded plastic fish tanks to glass tanks. the glass tanks didn't hold very well with the high heat and chemicals it attacked the glue holding the sides together. what i use now is is nothing but a normal everyday crockpot that is modified. first of all the ceramic pot is heated with an element on the underside and never touches the chemical and also keeps it at a certain temp during the etching process which makes it faster, cleaner and more efficient. my results are as good as any large or small company that does this for a nominal but pricey fee. here are some pics of the process. my next posting will be the cutting and assembly of the fuselage. BTW the crocpot idea was a stroke of genius and works better than anything else ive used and ive etched in it at least 4 dozen times and it still works as good as the day i put it together. i don't have a lot of cash right now so i have to be resourceful and innovative.

DCflyer
02-25-2010, 11:51 PM
i started the fuse sides uesing wooden dowel. it was tough getting the bend in the 1/4" dowel, i could have used laminates but this is how proctor did it. i tried boiling them in water, soaked them in amonia but just before i got there the dowel split. amonia just made them more brittle so i boiled a few for about a half hour, no dice. as soon as they cooled a few degrees,"crack" so what i did was boiled and then used a heat gun to work the dowel around the curve slowly but surely it worked. i went through 11 36" sticks before i got two to work. the 11 sticks wern't a waste it was only the first 6 inches i coudn't use so i'll end up useing them as vertical and horizontals. proctor provides a jig if you buy the kit so you can drill through the dowel leaving you a half circle that will butt right up to the longerons so it will look like a welded frame. i made mine and added 4" of brass tube to line the hand drill up as i only have a small dremel drill press. i must say it worked great. here are some pics of the frame being built and also the device or jig to join the dowels flush.

gramps2361
02-26-2010, 12:24 AM
You have alot of patience my friend. That is a lot of dowels to bend to get 2 that would work for you. Looking forward to your progress it is nice to follow your great builds with the attention to detail that you put into them. Looking forward to more of your work DCflyer.
John

DCflyer
02-27-2010, 01:35 AM
here are some more build pics.one problem i'm having is when you scale something down you also have to bring the weight down buy 1/3 these plans being proctor 1/4 scale. and finding those inbetween wood sizes to fit the scale. i remedied this buy useing laminations, for instance 1/4" ply lamed with 1/32" ply giveing you 9/32". the shock arms were made with three lamina and each side faced with a 0.15 brass etched part. proctor plans are great and goes without saying but dont like a lot of plans show every single part in detail ( only replicraft plans do this because there the real deal, full size plans, BTW my next build will be a sopwith strutter made with replicraft plans either 1/5 or 1/6 scale.) for instance they'll show half a part which i had to redraw on the computer and then join the two halfs. you have to do alot of studying until you fully comprehend what the part is and how it was built or how you plan to build it. the frameing is almost complete. i'm not putting in the removable motor tray as the plans call for because i want a full cockpit so i'm going to have to redesign a lot of the interior, proctor only had a seat and it looks a little small at that. well thats it for now i'll keep you updated.

DCflyer
02-28-2010, 03:42 PM
thank you gramps. it seems like less and less folks are into WW1 era planes or maybe it's just the economy, this can be an expensive hobby. i finished the cabanes and upper pully system today. took me a bit to figure out from the plans that that these were "u" shaped. i took a piece of 1/4" brass and buy putting it between two pieces of very hard wood and putting that into a wood vice and a little determination and also drawing on my super powers was able to colapse it down into the shape i needed. the pully system i redrew from the plans and etched the parts excluding the pully wheels, these i purchased from cornwallmodelboats.co.uk i also buy all of my turnbuckles from them they have much better prices than the U.S. and just about any size you might need, they even have working turnbuckles for 1/12 scale. the brits refer to turnbuckles as bottlescrews. buy having to use film on two sides for etching you can etch in bend lines or or any type of verbage. after i make my bend i use a little detail solder in the seam which makes it very strong. well i'm onto the landing gear, here are a couple of pics of the upper pully system.

Nitro Blast
02-28-2010, 03:48 PM
Words are somehow not describing the quality of your build... ok, STUNNING works pretty good.

PaperAirplane
02-28-2010, 08:50 PM
I definitely woulnt want to miss this one!

DCflyer
03-02-2010, 06:19 PM
here are a few more pics of the fuse. i got all the servos, motor and electronics installed. i want to get all the control wires in place and all the cockpit detail done before i rig the fuselage. this is a tough nut to crack, i have to get every thing into the foward 3 inches in order to have a full working cockpit. it was a lot of trial and error but i did get every thing to fit and working well. i had to move the rudder bar down a half an inch from the factory drawings as i only have 3" to crame all this in. i also completed the shock system, seat and mounts. i couldn't figure out how i was going to do the swirl technique which most people use and some museums but it's wrong. it's actually more of a squiggly random pattern that kinda looks like thin cheese puffs. i choose the latter even if it is wrong i think it looks better. what i ended up doing was useing the cardboard applicator from one of my wifes tampons ( not a used one ) and buy cutting about an inch of it off and glueing it to a polishing tool and then stuffing the head with fine steel wool. after a little practice it came out fine and consistant. ive seen builds where they line up the swirls in rows and up and down and to me this looks a bit sterile, i choose to be a little bit more random. well i'm off to finish the cockpit details. BTW i did make the seat a little larger, on the proctor plans the seat looked a little small plus it wasn't the right style seat for this plane. i posted a pic of the squiggly pattern thats supposed to be the correct way. again everyone seems to use the swirl pattern even many museums. i for one think the swirls look esteticly better.

gramps2361
03-02-2010, 06:24 PM
DC all I can say is awesome you are a artist when it comes to detail.

DCflyer
03-04-2010, 04:20 PM
i'm still working on the landing gear and instrumentation. at 1/6 scale this suff is real small to work on. my fingers are to big for the size of some of the parts and i have small hands. i use a couple pair of hemostates as my fingers. here are a couple of pics of the progress so far. almost every thing you see is fabricated out of brass and soldered together.

DCflyer
03-09-2010, 12:16 AM
i finally got the LG done with about 40% of the rigging, still miles to go before i sleep. you'll notice on the pics the cockpit is also completed with the dummy fuel tank, well it's on to the stab and rudder.

DCflyer
03-20-2010, 09:04 PM
i havn't posted in awhile been busy with work and trying to get this plane built. for me this is not an easy plane to scratchbuild and is probably one of the most complicated ive done. wingwarping, the front and rear suspension, whew! i'm almost done with the fuse just trying to figure out how to make the cowl, vacu-form or fiberglass either way i have to make a plug. here are some pics of the work so far.

DCflyer
03-28-2010, 12:51 AM
well here are a bunch more pics on the progress. i finnally found a pot to make the cowl out of and for the life of me couldn't find an aluminum one that wasn't cast and a inch thick. this is stainless steel about 0.15 thick and actually very light just a little harder to work with.

79CJ
03-28-2010, 01:17 AM
Just an amazing all around job DCflyer. I don't have anything to add to this thread, but I do look forward to the updates. Great work.

gramps2361
03-28-2010, 03:20 AM
Your detailed work leaves me speechles, stunning work DCflyer.

WWI Ace
03-28-2010, 07:56 PM
What motor are ya gonna use DCFlyer? Steve

pd1
03-28-2010, 08:05 PM
Wow, I almost missed this one.
Looking forward to all the wonderful pictures of this plane.

Before you choose your next one, I bought a guys collection of old plans.
I estimate 500, a lot of the planes are WW I and before.
Most I didn't know existed, if you have an old plane in mind, I might have a plan you could have.

Paul

DCflyer
03-30-2010, 10:32 AM
What motor are ya gonna use DCFlyer? Steve the one you see its's a rimfire 35/800, those are the only no's i can rememberoff hand and a 60 amp speed controller.

DCflyer
03-30-2010, 06:43 PM
What motor are ya gonna use DCFlyer? Steve i'm useing a rimfire 35-48-850 with a 60 amp seedcontroller

WWI Ace
03-31-2010, 12:07 AM
Thanks, I was wondering! Steve

cobra 16
03-31-2010, 01:03 AM
Absolutely stunning

DCflyer
04-03-2010, 01:40 AM
i finished my dummy oberusel and not a minute to soon, it's very dfficult to build this type of engine from old lerhone parts and what ever else was around. this is what i came up with and as i say it's very hard to simulate this type of engine from scratch and at 1/6 scale so it will have to do because i'm moving onto the wings.

ArneH
04-04-2010, 12:38 AM
This is a Masterpiece! I have never seen anything like this before. I can't understand how you can make such small parts.

DCflyer
04-11-2010, 01:03 AM
ive finished the wings and am ready to cover. this has beeen one of the most challengeing builds ive ever done and to think i thought it was going to be easy because it was a mono plane.

pd1
04-11-2010, 01:21 AM
That's another one that will be too nice to fly.
It should be in a museum where many others can see and appreciate your extra fine craftsmanship.

gramps2361
04-11-2010, 02:44 AM
What Paul says; of course I think this has been mentioned to you before. Your work is stunning DC.
If you ever want to raffle off one of these birds to fund the next build I would be the first to buy a raffle ticket.

Bill G
04-11-2010, 03:31 AM
Incredible work. I credit you on the engine work, as I would have been tempted to go for the WB 1/6 scale LeRhone. It's still always better to build your own, as a purist.
http://www.williamsbrothersmodelproducts.com/LeRhone%20rev7.JPGThe Proctor detail parts are incredible, although $$, but still worth it for museum grade builds. I would have purchased their small turnbuckles for my Ansaldo build, if I had been aware of them at the time. I think you'll need to find a real living 1/6 scale pilot to complete the build. :Q

DCflyer
04-11-2010, 01:07 PM
Incredible work. I credit you on the engine work, as I would have been tempted to go for the WB 1/6 scale LeRhone. It's still always better to build your own, as a purist.
http://www.williamsbrothersmodelproducts.com/LeRhone%20rev7.JPGThe Proctor detail parts are incredible, although $$, but still worth it for museum grade builds. I would have purchased their small turnbuckles for my Ansaldo build, if I had been aware of them at the time. I think you'll need to find a real living 1/6 scale pilot to complete the build. :Q

thanks bill, the detail parts weren't as exspensive as you would think considering i either make them by hand or etch them myself. the only parts i purchased were turnbuckles and i get them in england from cornwallmodelboats.co.uk there prices are much better and they have a wider range, even working turnbuckles for 1/12 scale and they refer to them as bottle screws.

hoffboy
04-12-2010, 05:05 PM
That's another one that will be too nice to fly.
It should be in a museum where many others can see and appreciate your extra fine craftsmanship.

It's kind of a shame to even cover those wings. Gorgeous!

I was at an RC swap meet here in WA a few months ago, and Proctor had a booth with several uncovered models hanging on display. Just incredible in the bones, and this build is making even Procotor's own examples look merely good by comparison.

DCflyer
04-13-2010, 07:26 PM
i have the wings covered and on the plane and just finished the top rigging.for anyone else who has built one of these the rigging is something else, wow! i can see its going to be a matter of balance and tuning the rigging until you get it just right. i'm going to do the bottom rigging next and if everything goes as planned i'll do the characoal and pastel wheathering. ive already done alot of the airbrush accents, as you can see my house/basement is really small and i'm mighty cramped with a 66" wingspan thats why i prefer 1/6 scale anything else would be much to large for my workspace. once it's all done i'll bring it outside for some tests and pics and i'll shoot a video of the wingwarping, ( something ive never seen myself), talk to you all soon and thankyou very much for all the compliments and support.

ArneH
04-13-2010, 11:28 PM
Do you dare to fly this beauty? It will be very interesting to see a flight report. And a Video of the flight will be great. I am very interested in Aviation History, and it is a pleasure to watch this project. I have always want to start a scale project, but this looks to advanced for a first model.

rhino
08-05-2010, 04:10 AM
Beautiful replica! I am excited to see the videos too.

ArneH
08-05-2010, 07:36 AM
Long time, no update. Are the maiden done? Looking forward to see more of this masterpiece.[popcorn]

vvabello
09-20-2011, 03:34 AM
Truly amazing work