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TM4197
03-10-2010, 02:22 AM
I have searched the internet for some decent drawings of the French made Caudron. A few have surfaced, does anyone have a 3 view drawing of this plane?

dbcisco
03-10-2010, 03:31 AM
Try this link (http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw_1w.html)for WWI 3 views. The Caudrons are down the page a bit.

TM4197
03-10-2010, 03:48 AM
Thanks DB
I am looking for the G3 single engine. Sorry, I should have said that up front. Looks like it can be a easy foam build. I can probably go ahead with some of the good pics that I have, but would like to get the wings and struts as close as possible. Was thinking of re-shaping an old set of Moth wings. Thanks again! Whats your latest project?

Airhead
03-10-2010, 03:49 AM
Hey TM,
Did you find it?

TM4197
03-10-2010, 03:52 AM
Not yet....not of the G3.

dbcisco
03-10-2010, 03:59 AM
Here's a G3 3 view. (http://richard.ferriere.free.fr/3vues/caudron_g3_3v.jpg)

Here is a big colored side view (http://www.tayyareci.com/digerucaklar/turkiye/ww1/pro-WWI/Caudron%20G-3%20side%20view.JPG)

TM4197
03-10-2010, 04:04 AM
There we go! Thanks a million !! Was looking at the G4 that you sent, that might be an interesting project as well!! :D

degreen60
03-10-2010, 01:46 PM
Here is a printed paper G3.

Greenonions
03-21-2010, 11:19 PM
Hello,my name is Laz,and i am a new member,and very happy to have landed here. I have been on a long reconnaissance flight gathering as much data as possible for my caudron G3 build,and i happend to stray into this territory,much to my luck.Hope you dont mind me tagging along and taking notes, im looking forward to seeing your progress.:)

degreen60
03-22-2010, 12:16 AM
My name is Don and I am addicted to WW1 r/c airplanes. Watch out greenonions or you may become addicted too and have to attend the meetings here with the rest of us. Welcome to the site.

Greenonions
03-22-2010, 01:07 AM
Hi Don,
thankyou for the welcome,i must add that ive been a WW1 addict since the early seventies.????

Greenonions
03-23-2010, 09:11 PM
I stumbled across the Cleveland plans service,and immediately ordered the G3 plan in 1/32 to cross reference with my Windsock drawings.Has anyone else used these plans?
My plan is to build with carbon strip,and "D" section,maybe Kevlar thread,anything that keeps the weight down in order to add more detail.
I was looking at little capacitor powered motors for free flight,I'm not looking for anything more than a short steady flight,a static display model that just happens to fly, is what I'm aiming for.Can anyone advise me as to the best light weight covering material that looks scale?
Back to the subject of Cleveland's plans i could not help but ordering the Curtis's E seaplane,Macchi M5 seaplane,Farman,Bleriot X1,Bristol Bullet all 1/32,i love all the older stuff.Any comments about my lunacy will be greatly appreciated.

FS Gilbert
05-09-2010, 05:11 PM
Greenonions, there really is nothing the matter with using balsa to build. Carbon fiber is good in some places, but balsa, at that scale is more than adequate and has alot of bounce to it. There is a tendency for people to over build which adds weight but more importantly makes the aircraft stronger at certain points than it needs to be. The results can be that crashes result in more significance damage than if you used balsa or left out the carbon fiber and Kevlar armrests.

The Cleveland plans are very scale for that aircraft. I have them and have it on my build list, which is always longer than it should be!

Greenonions
05-09-2010, 10:06 PM
Thank you FS for your comments,i have been thinking long and hard about how i'm going to approach this build,and this is a what I've come up with so far...To build the tail,fins,booms.undercarriage,from carbon.Wings, ribs from veneer sheet,main spar from sanded balsa sheet, leading edge from balsa.The nacelle will be from balsa,all spars from hardwoods.I think that this configuration will give strength and lightness to the aircraft aft of the nacelle.
I have decided not to go with the Cleveland plans as these do not compare as well as the Windsock drawings,which I've enlarged to 1/32.
Why 1/32? this is the scale that has so many detail goodies from the plastic kit boys,ie i intend to hollow out one of the resin engines that are available in order to save weight.
As for the covering I'm thinking maybe esaki silk at 11 grams a square mtr or the lighter condenser paper,not sure?
I believe that the caudron is a design that lends it self to the lightest builds so im gonna have a go.

FS Gilbert
05-09-2010, 11:01 PM
Greenonions, well you've got a plan and that's good, but I think you are still over building in some areas. The carbon will be light for the booms and LG and certainly I would go that route, but balsa will be fine for everything else, especially for the ribs and spars. Make a "I" type of spar out of balsa and you will be closer in design to the original and yet it will be strong enough.

I would tend to use Esaki tissue before silk as the silk is heavier and uses more dope to close the weave than tissue. BTW, think of using Future floor wax instead of dope as it will do the same thing but you avoid the smell.

I look forward to your build. It might just be the inspiration I need. Remember that if you keep it light in the build, it will fly alot more scale in flight.

degreen60
05-10-2010, 11:10 AM
[QUOTE=FS Gilbert;718074]I would tend to use Esaki tissue before silk as the silk is heavier and uses more dope to close the weave than tissue. BTW, think of using Future floor wax instead of dope as it will do the same thing but you avoid the smell.
QUOTE]

Will Future floor wax make the covering shrink? I tried using WBP but it will not shrink the covering and will even cause tight covering to loosen.

FS Gilbert
05-10-2010, 12:50 PM
Read this article ....http://www.smallflyingarts.com/Current_Content/Article_2/floor_wax.htm

It is not that Future shrinks the tissue(although it does) as much as it serves the purpose of sealing the pores in the tissue the same as dope. The shrinking should come from a water or alcohol misting (actually, I prefer to put rubbing alcohol on with a fat brush.). The alcohol speeds up the drying over water.

I attach the tissue in one of two ways. Either I use the paper glue sticks or BalsaLoc. If I use the glue sticks, I will have to use dope to seal the edges as the glue from the glue stick will eventually lift over time from any stress. With BalsaLoc, I can use a small trim iron to move the tissue (dry) into position if I have a wrinkle. Then a coating of alcohol and when dry, a coating of dope or Future or you can even use Krylon Clear spray. It is that simple from the earlier days of dope and tissue. I would recommend a good brand of tissue and not the dime store stuff. It is not the same strength and will fall apart when wet.

The site that this article came from "Small Flying Arts", is very useful for other info on building and isn't just for free flight and tissue models. Many of the devices and jigs will fit right in with bigger models as well.

degreen60
05-10-2010, 02:28 PM
I will try Future. I build larger planes and like to cover with parachure silk(doing this sence the 60s). I was looking for something to use instead of dope for my WW1 electric planes. I put the silk on wet and it dries tight but I have not found a paint that does not cause the silk to go baggy.

FS Gilbert
05-10-2010, 02:38 PM
degreen60, I'd give the Krylon a shot for your silk technique. It may just be the right solution as it goes on lightly and dries quickly. Several coats, I would think, would have it ready for paint.

Greenonions
05-10-2010, 03:30 PM
Hi all,
FS The wings of the Caudron show that the upper and lower surface covering being fused together between the ribs,almost like the dorsal fin of a fish,much like the Taube wings,the covering becomes more web like.
The Cleveland plans,alas show a more conventional wing construction which is not true to scale,therefor i shall only use the plans for reference,and use the windsock data file plans to build from.Once this is realised,you can see why i'm really scratching my head about coverings!
Thanks for all your input so far.:confused:

FS Gilbert
05-10-2010, 05:22 PM
Greenonions, I think what you are referring to is the TE of the wing. On the Caudron, the TE is a wire (use thread) instead of a hard edge. You simply wrap the tissue around it as did the Wright Bros. and SPAD to name a few. The cloth never drooped between the ribs enough to touch except at the TE, as I have described. Frequently modellers have substituted a balsa edge that is scalloped for the look instead of thread.

Greenonions
05-10-2010, 08:07 PM
Hi FS,
Yes your right i was mainly refering to the trailing edge of the caudrons unusual wing!Looking at the photos in the windsock file,it seems to show that the mainspar takes up half of the cord! so what i need is a rib that spans the wing cord with high rigiditythats why i was thinking carbon.Im not sure that thread would have enough "memory" for wingwarping! Mind you,having not tried your thread teqchnice i am not dismissing it!
I have been looking at as many pic's and drawings as i can,and see a distictive rib shape from TE to LE so i'll try and recreate this,and i have been thinking about your suggestion of balsa to achive this,however im looking at all alternatives.

FS Gilbert
05-11-2010, 12:37 AM
Greenonions, I took a better look at the G3 and see what you mean in regard to the wing and ribs and how they seem to be touching. It looks like the back part of the wing on top has a slant and somehow it looks like it was made to be thin and rigid for warping. While the underside shows no indication of being like the top. I agree that it is quite a problem in covering.

My sense is to make these bays and ribs out of balsa and cover in pieces of film or tissue. Time consuming but doable. I would have to see a closer view to determine what has to be done to achieve the look. I'll try and see if I took any photos of that plane when I was at Le Bourget (if you ever get a chance to go there, it is a trip of a lifetime...one of THE best museums of WW1 aircraft, the builder's workshops, like Voisin, and fantastic models you wouldn't believe!)

Interesting problem.....I like it!

FS Gilbert
05-11-2010, 12:40 AM
Here's the problem...

Greenonions
05-11-2010, 07:03 PM
FS,
Did you mean bonding tissue or whatever to the balsa in order to strengthen it? If so i think that to be an interesting route,well while I'm still pondering,i knocked up a jig out of scrap balsa and pasted the plan to it in order to get the correct curvature of the ribs,also i ordered some scales for good measure.
In my quest for strength weight ratio's,i have even been considering "fish bones"yeh,:o I'm of to the fish mongers tomorrow!
Many Thanks for your interest in my obsession;-)

FS Gilbert
05-11-2010, 07:57 PM
Greenonions, Sent PM.

Greenonions
06-01-2010, 08:33 AM
Hi FS,
Sorry for the late reply,i will EMail you shortly,however i think i've cracked the wing construction,i shall be using feather quils for the ribs,they are light,flexible and strong with an uncanny rib profile that lends it self perfectly for the caudron wings.
I have built the nacelle using a combination of balsa and tanginyika wood,all up weight including detailing should be no more than 3 grms.I shall be sending a photo build diary as soon as i work out how to do it.
Regards

enemyace19
09-05-2010, 12:37 AM
I find toothpicks(the flat ones work for ribs) if you lay them out on wax paper and use some wood glue.... Doug