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philipa_240sx
04-30-2010, 03:42 AM
I've had an ongoing problem that has been preventing my from using a T-Bird 6A ESC with any small diameter outrunner.

The symptom:

Motor starts no problem. Accelerate quickly from 1/4 to WOT throttle and it stops.

So far one larger diameter motor has worked: Turnigy C2222 (19mm stator?)

I have tried 2 other motors: Infinite 1705-1800 (17mm stator) and HXT 1811-2000 (14mm stator)
(17mm stator). Both exhibit the same problems.

I have used a PowerUp 10A ESC from HeadsUpRC on both motors and they run fine.

The T-Bird is an older rev... Sept 07 mfg date so I presume V1.05 firmware. I have not tried updating it yet.

I did contact Castle directly and didn't get much help. Unfortunately I cannot find their e-mail response anymore...

OK, so the obvious one is upgrade the firmware... but since I do not own a Castle Link I have to beg/borrow one.

Any other suggestions? Or is this just a lost cause? Anyone else have similar issues?

Larry3215
04-30-2010, 07:02 AM
The firmware has improved a lot since that revision. If you dont want to buy or borrow a link you can send the esc in to Castle and they will up-date it for free. Will still cost you postage and down time though.

philipa_240sx
04-30-2010, 12:58 PM
Time to hit up my friend and fellow RC'r for his Castle Link. Might be a couple of weeks till I see him next.

I would really like to get this issue resolved rather than sell the ESC's or be limited in what I can use them with.

philipa_240sx
05-04-2010, 01:23 PM
CC's response from a few months ago. However, startup is not the issue... it's losing sync during acceleration once the motor is running.

homas@castlecreations.com> wrote:

From: Thomas Porfert <thomas@castlecreations.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Thunderbird 6 Issues]
To: pagn@rogers.com
Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 1:57 PM

Philip,

The newer software does improve the startup routine, but some outrunner motors will start stutter slightly on startup. This doesn't hurt anything and is an effect of the timing between the motor and ESC. We have the ability to start the motor cleanly, but it forces us to reduce the throttle response; this causes the throttle to feel sluggish or slower than normal. The rough startup will not harm any components and will probably never go away completely; unless we decide to sacrifice performance, but at this time we do not plan to do so. Please let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns.
---
Thomas Porfert
Product Specialist
Castle Creations
235 South Kansas Avenue
Olathe, KS 66061
(913)390-6939 ext. 125

flydiver
05-04-2010, 04:32 PM
Buy a [Link]. People are selling them all the time for less than $20.
You not only get to update firmware but the newer firmware allows exact control of LVC.
I don't have a 6A but my 10A work fine on small outrunners.

Do check into the FAQ on loading it to your PC. The program can be a hassle for some systems.

philipa_240sx
05-16-2010, 10:57 PM
OK, problem fixed. Upgraded the firmware with Castle Link and the T-Bird 6 now works with both small outrunners I have.

Curiously, while swapping motor connectors a wire pulled right off prior to de-soldering the old connector. Makes me wonder if it wasn't an ESC problem after all but poor solder joint?

Anyway, very happy with the T-Bird now. However if I ever buy Castle again in the future, it's going to be their Phoenix line.

Larry3215
05-17-2010, 01:14 AM
Yup, a bad solder joint could easily cause that problem. New firmware is probably just a nice bonus :)

philipa_240sx
05-17-2010, 02:28 AM
Yup, a bad solder joint could easily cause that problem. New firmware is probably just a nice bonus :)

If it was a bad solder joint, then it must have been a fluke... it worked fine for prolly 50+ flights using a 16g outrunner from HeadsUpRC? :confused:

Anyway, I ran it tonight with the 1811-2000 10g outrunner from HK. Zero issues save for the weird startup... it would momentarily spin backwards.

Larry3215
05-17-2010, 05:19 AM
Cold solder joints can be strange. They can act up intermittently or maybe only at certain temps or with certain vibrations.

On the start up, thats not that unusual. The esc needs to try a pulse to see which is the correct direction of rotation. Sometimes if you move the three wires from the esc around to different locations it will go away.

philipa_240sx
05-19-2010, 03:52 PM
On the start up, thats not that unusual. The esc needs to try a pulse to see which is the correct direction of rotation. Sometimes if you move the three wires from the esc around to different locations it will go away.

It's not a big deal. So long as the motor starts and runs, I don't have a problem with it.

Larry3215
05-20-2010, 07:11 AM
If you move up to the ICE controllers you will love the start up. Niiiiice :)

philipa_240sx
05-20-2010, 11:53 AM
If you move up to the ICE controllers you will love the start up. Niiiiice :)

Yes, but IMHO the T-bird is overpriced for what it does. There are a vast number of inexpensive ESC's that I dare say have more features and work better than the T-Bird lineup.... and are priced 30-50% less. The only reason I purchased the T-bird is I found them on clearance... at more than 60% off retail!

Anyway, I am happy that it works and my money was not wasted.

Bill G
05-29-2010, 06:32 AM
Yes, but IMHO the T-bird is overpriced for what it does. There are a vast number of inexpensive ESC's that I dare say have more features and work better than the T-Bird lineup.... and are priced 30-50% less. The only reason I purchased the T-bird is I found them on clearance... at more than 60% off retail!

Anyway, I am happy that it works and my money was not wasted.
There are ESCs such as Turnigy, that have given similar dependable performance, at a lower cost. One thing to realize is that the Castle product will still work better than other brands, in certain apps. I've had some issues where motors ran better on the Castle ESC/software than on other brands. Just do enough experimenting, and you will come across these situations. One thing that the Castle ESCs can do that none others seem to do well, or do at all, is running 2 inrunners on a single ESC. This have worked beautifully on small EDFs, such as my EDF30 ME262, where the weight/harnessing of a second ESC becomes impractical. The jet has a single Tbird6 running 2 EDF30 fans with 5866kv 12mm Feigao inrunners. I've also used single Tbird18 and P25 ESCs on EDF40/50 twin setups with 12mm Feigao inrunners, and the P25 on twin EDF55 setups with 20mm 370 inrunners.

philipa_240sx
05-29-2010, 01:47 PM
I don't doubt that some ESC's are better for certain applications than others. It's great that you have found an application for the T-bird that other brands cannot match.

I have flown both these motors (Infinite 1705 and HXT 1811) with both the Castle T-Bird, HeadsUpRC PowerUp, and Turnigy Plush. Starting issues aside with the T-Bird, they all perform the same. There is no noticeable increase in power, performance, etc.

There is no advantage to justify the cost... as much as 3-4 times as other brands.

Bill G
05-30-2010, 08:05 AM
I don't doubt that some ESC's are better for certain applications than others. It's great that you have found an application for the T-bird that other brands cannot match.

I have flown both these motors (Infinite 1705 and HXT 1811) with both the Castle T-Bird, HeadsUpRC PowerUp, and Turnigy Plush. Starting issues aside with the T-Bird, they all perform the same. There is no noticeable increase in power, performance, etc.

There is no advantage to justify the cost... as much as 3-4 times as other brands.
Fairchild fets are an advantage over what the cheaper ESCs use. The brands that are as inexpensive as 3-4 times less than T-Birds, are often improperly rated, compared to the Castles.

philipa_240sx
05-30-2010, 09:35 PM
Fairchild fets are an advantage over what the cheaper ESCs use. The brands that are as inexpensive as 3-4 times less than T-Birds, are often improperly rated, compared to the Castles.

I don't doubt that, hence why I tend to err on the side of caution when selecting ESC sizes. I'm sure that the component specs are pushed to the limit by offshore mfg's in a bid to save costs. Reminds me of my college days in electronics... ahh, they don't build them like they used to.

In the end, I like using Castle ESC's. However, I can't figure out how the T-Bird manages to sell given the competition. I think CC needs to be a bit more reasonable.