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RWF
09-23-2010, 11:34 AM
I have a 30+ acre site available in Central Florida but it has a 20 acre lake in the middle of it. The perimeter is tree lined. The parking would be along the east tree line and the landing strip (already in place) is between parking and the lake. The area is maintained and locked at night.

Most of the guys I've talked to are afraid of the lake in case they crash. They are experienced pilots and I don't know these guys to crash except when they do stunts too low or too fast.
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Would any one be interested in flying here? (for a nominal fee, of course)

Saddlebum
09-23-2010, 11:44 AM
I have a 30+ acre site available in Central Florida but it has a 20 acre lake in the middle of it. The perimeter is tree lined. The parking would be along the east tree line and the landing strip (already in place) is between parking and the lake. The area is maintained and locked at night.

Most of the guys I've talked to are afraid of the lake in case they crash. They are experienced pilots and I don't know these guys to crash except when they do stunts too low or too fast.
.
Would any one be interested in flying here? (for a nominal fee, of course)

You said "the perimeter is tree lined". Is that the perimeter of the lake or the perimeter of the whole 30 acres?

RWF
09-23-2010, 12:01 PM
duh. . . . . Title of the thread is 'Flying site'. The flying site is described, not the lake. I didn't think that anyone would be challenged by the obvious.

Saddlebum
09-23-2010, 01:19 PM
duh. . . . . Title of the thread is 'Flying site'. The flying site is described, not the lake. I didn't think that anyone would be challenged by the obvious.

DUDE! Chill out!


I ask a simple and reasonable question to try to assess the suitablity of your site for my airplanes and you insult me!


If that's the kind of reception you give to all your potential customers, I suspect you have a flawed business model.

MaxAdventure
09-23-2010, 02:02 PM
I have a 30+ acre site available in Central Florida but it has a 20 acre lake in the middle of it. The perimeter is tree lined.

With these two sentences, "the" (demonstrative adjective) in the second sentence is referencing the last noun in the previous sentence; the lake.

The flying site is described, not the lake.

Here is where a picture or simple diagram would clarify for all. I read and re-read your original post, I found it quite confusing.

http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/partsp.html

This is an effort to be friendly and helpful pointing out how important good communication is, especially written.

RWF
09-23-2010, 03:09 PM
Ok, enough.I suppose someone could read that this 20 acre lake has a tree-lined perimeter in the middle of a 30 acre flying site. Could this be a viable flying site?

firemanbill
09-23-2010, 03:16 PM
If I were in that area I could fly there.

Nitro Blast
09-24-2010, 05:29 PM
RWF,
Offering your site to fly is a great thing. Charging a 'nominal fee' however brings up some real sticky subjects. If I were you, I'd do a bit-o-research on collecting land 'use fees' in your area. If you accept fees, and something happens, you could be on the hook for a plethora of trouble and financial implication.

In order to collect usage fees, many municipalities insist on several items such as access (ADA compliance), bathrooms, security, lighting, etc. Then, those facilities must meet all related codes for electrical, plumbing, safety, etc. It just goes into a whole arena that may not be worth the 'token fee' you are implying. This does not even take into account the whole business license idea of charging a fee. That alone is a big one.

Honestly, if you are offering a private site, then do that. If you want to build a money maker, you may wish to consider another venue.


Allowing fellow modelers onto your land is a very generous thing to do indeed. Charging them for it however IMO will have them flying across the street for free.

RWF
09-24-2010, 08:07 PM
Thank you very much for the thoughtful input.

My intention is to form a new flying club/association sanctioned by the AMA and charge a membership fee. Use of the flying site would be for members only who will have to maintain AMA membership.

The site is an area owned by a government agency, has facitilies and is maintained and secure. The agency will charge a nominal, annual per-member fee for use of the site. The club will have the responsibility of enforcing the rules and guidelines of the AMA. This will be for rubber, free flight, gliders and electric planes excluding EDF's (noise). The agency has specified that combustion engines and loud airplanes will not be allowed.

Thank you again

MaxAdventure
09-24-2010, 08:39 PM
Thank you very much for the thoughtful input.

My intention is to form a new flying club/association sanctioned by the AMA and charge a membership fee. Use of the flying site would be for members only who will have to maintain AMA membership.

The site is an area owned by a government agency, has facitilies and is maintained and secure. The agency will charge a nominal, annual per-member fee for use of the site. The club will have the responsibility of enforcing the rules and guidelines of the AMA. This will be for rubber, free flight, gliders and electric planes excluding EDF's (noise). The agency has specified that combustion engines and loud airplanes will not be allowed.

Thank you again

Now that the intent is clear, I have input that you may find useful. I have been involved in an electric only club for the past four years that leases land from the city and has a very similar description.
The club site: http://www.leafrc.com
satellite view:http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.170596,-105.037405&spn=0.001215,0.002733&t=h&z=19

I would guess it's about four acres. As you can see it boarders the largest natural lake in the area with a tree line right in the flight path. The neighboring lake is a city recreation area, the neighboring fields are either city lease or in flux and we have no issues with fly-over or retrieving downed planes.

Observations: Most park flyer class planes/pilot have no real problem flying within the area, some small amount fly-over of the neighbors/road/trees/lake. I personally fly 80% outside of the property with 90% of my aircraft. Glider pilots can not stay within the area with hope to find thermals. I'm hard pressed to get a high-start laid out and be useful. New pilots/training can not stay within the area. Most members 'fear' the trees and we've had quite a few recoveries. Many members 'fear' the water, and we've had several plane losses in the water in the years I've been there. I personally enjoy the challenge and have no problems with .40-.60 size warbirds, 50CC aerobatic, and my 3KW 8' tow DHC2 Beaver (all planes electric due to City Lease) although I've heard comments of people thinking larger planes can't land there. I'll probably maiden my 9' PBY at another location before I try taking off and landing from this small facility. We've had quite a bit of vandalism, I suspect due to how close to town the field is. This is also I think the main appeal that so many are willing to put up with all the down sides to this field, the convenience. I live pretty much in the middle of town and can be in the field within 5 minutes.

Applicable thoughts:
If your lake is in the middle of the property, that effectively shrinks the field for take off and landings. If you have trees in the take off/landing pattern it can cause a lot of stress and limitations. Prevalent winds through structures/trees can cause havoc on the runway on windy days when you have a tight field.

If the field your are proposing is conveniently located and you have mains power for chargers, nice toilet, it will really make up for a restricted field when you're talking electric only. Half of a club is all about sitting around and bench flying, so a nice area can make up for a poor runway (in many peoples minds) IMHO.

It seems a little odd that the government lease is 'per member', however as long as it's reasonable, it's just like any club - they all have grounds fees although most are a one-time first membership fee. Would you be restricted from having AMA sanctioned fun flies? ila day guest for events with that lease?

RWF
09-24-2010, 09:34 PM
WOW! Look at all that open sky over the lake! Thanx again.

The field is basically rectangular in shape, length running N to S. Prevailing winds are N to NE so takeoffs and landings are usually into the wind. There is a nice wetlands to the east with good tree protection from the wind and morning flying is opposite the sunrise. The per member fee is similiar to hunting/fishing licensing which I suppose they have to impose to show a revenue producing activity. But guess what? $15 per year! And they would love to have events and offered to help advertise (I guess they want lots of members).
Keep in touch. Take care