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View Full Version : Researching a Hercules H-4 "Spruce Goose" Build


WingnutDave
05-22-2011, 11:52 PM
Well, here I go! I've been away from R/C flight for a long time. As I'm about to retire after 30+ years, I thought R/C might be something that would keep my brain from rusting. So long story short, I was looking at videos on You Tube and came across the H-4. I'm doing the research and have found a number of magazine builds and a few kits as well. I get the impression that with state of the art E-flight systems and using good build techniques, getting the "Goose" to fly may not be the hard part. The one thing I've noticed on most of the videos I've seen is that getting it float right is the tough part. If you look at the original photos of the first flight of the real H-4, the models water action just don't measure up. I know, I know, you can't have everything. There are a 100 compromises to be made in most builds. Doing a seaplane just makes it worse. So, anybody got any thoughts on this? (Jeez, I can't believe I just said that.....). All I can say is, I want do the "Goose" justice, Hughes was genius after all.....

xmech2k
05-23-2011, 12:03 AM
Hi WingnutDave. Welcome to Wattflyer! Sounds like a cool project. I wish I could dive into something like that, also wish I could offer more help, but I've hardly built anything. :sad: One thing I wonder though, and it may help you get an answer, is what is it about the floating part seems wrong between the models and the full scale Goose? How deep it sits in the water? The wake?

WingnutDave
05-23-2011, 12:19 AM
xmech2k: Your my first response!!! Outstanding! Yes! you nailed it. The bow wakes are way to big.....they don't seem to really be up on the "step"...a lot of really wet prop wash potentially getting the motors wet. Also it appears that some sit kinda 'tail down'.....looks like the buoyancy factors a way off.

CHELLIE
05-23-2011, 11:02 AM
Hi Dave :ws: and Welcome To Wattflyers :ws: Lots and Lots of Super Nice and Smart people Here :ws: your going to Love it here ;) I retired last year, and I still have a lot to do around my house :D I need to go back to work so I can get some rest :Q LOL, Looking Forwards to seeing your build come together, Take care and have fun, Chellie

WingnutDave
05-25-2011, 07:11 AM
Hi Chellie! Thanks for the warm welcome....I'm looking forward to retirement. I figure there's 7 days in week....so 4 days for the house and chores and 3 for the Goose....that ought to be about right. I found Sctatchnhover's 100" Goose....whoa, I'm good, but that build was incredible!! I can only hope mine turns out half that nice. Anyway, thanks again...I'm sure we'll talk again...later,WND

eflight-ray
05-25-2011, 08:42 PM
There has always been a problem finding scale water for our scale models, it's just something we accept. Worse still is flying scale models at non-scale speeds, etc. ;)

As a starter for a flying boat, perhaps a twin or four could be worth considering, an eight could be a real handful.

Have a look at Ivan's Plans, just scoll down his page to see a few flying boats. - http://ivansplans.com/

My 'waterbird' is a Sunderland.

eflight-ray
05-25-2011, 08:57 PM
If it must be a Goose, (the Hughes, not the Grumman), then these threads may help -

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1286585

and - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1310701

WingnutDave
05-25-2011, 09:16 PM
Ray:
Thanks for the threads! Yeah, that pesky physics thing can be a real pain...and I haven't totally decided on the H-4, but it would be very cool....with sound modules....8 of 'em..and fpv....awesome!! Oops, kinda lost it there for a minute...ahh, I need to get back to work, thanks again Ray, I will definatly check out those threads...later,WND

HO-229
06-21-2011, 01:29 AM
Dave,
Plenty of data available on the Goose; if you decide to Jump off the deep end and build it let me know, I know a little about the aircraft:rolleyes:

I may be able to supply some parts at a future date

Cheers,
Dave:)

kenchiroalpha
06-21-2011, 03:07 AM
Hi Dave
Welcome aboard
Im Pleased to meet you
Thats a wonderful aircraft to model
Check out this bad boy:$:tc::ws:
http://www.hooked-on-rc-airplanes.com/jims-scratch-built-rc-spruce-goose.html
Take care
Yours Hank

WingnutDave
06-21-2011, 08:33 PM
HO-229:
Thanks for the offer......yeah, I guess this really is the deep end of the pool! Your right about the info available, there's a ton out on the net. I did notice a discrepency involving the prop diameter......all of the written discriptions say the dia. was 17'-2", but that poster from the Goleta Air Museum (?) has the dia. at 16'-6".....any thoughts on this?.....it's not a big deal, I'm going to most likely use Vario-Prop 8" scale units which makes the wing span 114". Yes, the aircraft will be....humongus, to use an 'aeronautical' term. I have no idea where I'll store it when I'm done, but this isn't about the destination, it's about the journey. My wife "the sturdy redhead in the sensible shoes" says she's concerned about my state of mind, but as long as the retirement checks come in, she'll "roll with it". I'm about 90% decided to do this, so the fun begins. I'm really starting from scratch. I have to set up a work room in one the empty bedrooms, get supplies, jigs and fixtures made......at least I've got the tool thing covered. Gotta go for now and thanks again.........WND :ws:

WingnutDave
06-21-2011, 08:53 PM
Kenchiroalpha:
:$:$:$............Yeah....very sweet. Mr. Markham did a right fine job. This was, of course, the video that I found that spawned my madness....If I even come close to that massive silvery goodness, I will be one happy retiree....thanks for the threads, one can never have too much 'goose'. Gotta go, as I'm still working, but not for long.....retirement, I'm on final approach...........WND :D

HO-229
06-21-2011, 11:01 PM
A factoid that is little known about the Goose props…
The outer most props are small diameter props than all the other props.

I only discovered this fact in the last few months after reading one of the several well written books on the Goose.
When I get home I’ll sort thru my notes and let you know what the spec sheet says:)

You will find my lofty Spruce Goose build within the below link amungst other projects, feel free to hop on for the long ride... if you plus up your design to 120 inches in span you will find the Goose @ 1/32nd scale
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60763

Dave

kenchiroalpha
06-22-2011, 12:24 AM
Hi
Heres a great thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699098
Take care
Yours Hank

road king 97
06-22-2011, 01:24 AM
I wired my brushed motors in series- parililal . Here is a drawing by rudder man i used to wire mine, all you have to do is add some more motors. If going with brushless motors then you are going to have plenty of wires and esc,s.:D joe http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759465&page=9 Mike has been a big help to me here is his site and his goose.http://fly2build.com/

HO-229
06-22-2011, 01:39 AM
Goose prop data, I was not totally correct:rolleyes: only the #4 engine/prop was of a differnt size.

Dave:)

Pureluck
06-22-2011, 04:00 AM
WingNutDave, I don't know if you are aware. It looks like you are around 550 Miles south of the Spruce Goose. It's located at the Evergreen Aviation and Space museum in McMinnville, OR. I took the drive down to it a couple of years ago, and I'll definitely do it again. Just amazing to see it in person. For an extra $50.00 you can do the tour inside. On the day I was there, no one else was taking the tour, so it was a private look around with the guide. You get to sit in the pilots seat, and take all the pictures you want. Can't find mine on the hard drive, but if I track them down, I'll post a few for you. I highly recommend the trip, it's a great way to spend the day.

The system won't let me add a direct link, so I'll do it this way
w w w dot evergreenmuseum dot org.

kenchiroalpha
06-22-2011, 04:10 AM
WingNutDave, I don't know if you are aware. It looks like you are around 550 Miles south of the Spruce Goose. It's located at the Evergreen Aviation and Space museum in McMinnville, OR. I took the drive down to it a couple of years ago, and I'll definitely do it again. Just amazing to see it in person. For an extra $50.00 you can do the tour inside. On the day I was there, no one else was taking the tour, so it was a private look around with the guide. You get to sit in the pilots seat, and take all the pictures you want. Can't find mine on the hard drive, but if I track them down, I'll post a few for you. I highly recommend the trip, it's a great way to spend the day.

The system won't let me add a direct link, so I'll do it this way
w w w dot evergreenmuseum dot org.
Hi
Welcome aboard
Im pleased to meet you:D
You need a few more postings before you can post links or photos
Here i took the liberty of posting it for ya
http://www.evergreenmuseum.org/#/aircraft-exhibits/the-spruce-goose
Take care
Yours Hank

Pureluck
06-22-2011, 07:37 AM
That's the perfect link. I'm just getting back into the hobby. One of my friends suggested it would be fun to have a Martin Mars, and from there I went looking for Spruce Goose models, and I found this site. Just poking around so far, but it looks like there is lots of great info here.

WingnutDave
06-22-2011, 05:34 PM
Dave:
Thanks for the scoop on the props.....weird, though....at the risk of revealing my total lack of knowledge in all things airplane....why would Hughes do that with the one prop.....did Hamilton run out of 17'"-2"'s??. Also, you have a good point on the scale issue. It's only 6 more inches and a standard scale does make things easier....this could be a good thing. Ahh, yeah I did go for the long ride as it were, WOW!!! What a humbling experience....I feel so un-worthy. But, I guess all I can do is sharpen the tools and get busy....WND

WingnutDave
06-22-2011, 05:49 PM
Welcome to Wattflyers! Yeah, I think your gonna fit right in...you gotta do the Goose! How awesome would it be to have 4 or 5 H-4's flying in formation over a glass smooth lake....I'm sure Howard would be impressed. Stay tuned...

WingnutDave
06-22-2011, 06:10 PM
Guys:
Oh, yes....I know just how close the real H-4 is...I have, in fact, broached the idea of a road trip to "the sturdy redhead in the sensible shoes" and she thinks that is a doable thing.....we haven't done a road trip in good long while, this might be just the motivation needed......I wonder if they would let me measure a few things....I'll bring a tape...you know, just in case, later,guys...WND

HO-229
06-22-2011, 08:05 PM
Would suspect Mr. Hughes may have been using the smaller prop at station 4 to mitigate an undesirable effect/condition. :confused:

Pureluck
06-22-2011, 09:39 PM
I think they would be reasonable about it. You wouldn't be able to run a tape down the side of the aircraft, but the may already have it documented for you. Rather than a tape you would really need one of the wheels on a stick to make the measurements. I found that if you paid the extra $ to do the tour, they were very accomodating as long as it wasn't going to risk damage to the aircraft.

My personal guess on the smaller prop... Is #4 the one next to the door? If so maybe it was a safety issue to give more clearance on exiting.