Curtis Jenny

[SaucerGuy]

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[debhicks]

I am curious, are you going to do all the cutting and want someone to assemble it for you to market? Are you looking for someone to cut and assemble? And how much per hour are you going to pay the person to do the cutting and assembling and covering? I suppose it would depend on how many you want produced at a time as to how much it will cost.

I have some old (wouldn't trust on flight controls) thread for leather stitching so I know it's out there with enough thread on a spool to probably outfit 100 small planes. The fishing tackle isle is good, but most of that is made not in the USA, more like packaged in the USA. You can probably work out a deal price on bulk wood from Sig. You may even get Sig to jig it and cut it for you if you can provide them with your plans. I have had some limited dealings with bulk wood from them and they will talk to you.

There is actually places listed in the AMA catalog that do CNC cutting. I would imagine that with the cost of labor CNC is going to be cheaper and some places don't require a minimum if you wanted a small run. Just lay out the plans in your cad program so you can email the file to them. Pro- bass would probably work with you on bulk purchasing of the tackle you want to use. I am assuming you already have the Tax ID to go in and work wholesale deals out with these distributors. Thompsons directory on line would be a good place to look for distributors of the items you may be looking for.

So perhaps it's doable for $85.00. Perhaps the most expensive part of the very pretty plane is the covering and time to do the cutting, assembling and covering. Then there is the box. The box I forgot about the box. That is probably going to be your biggest expense. Not sure where you can get those. I know bags can get pricey when you want something printed on them.

Hope some of that was helpful. Very pretty plane and good luck.

[SaucerGuy]

This is all good advice, I'm very much going to look into all of that now that you brought them up, it just felt like you are totally on your own, glad GWS and the rest are hip on helping out with this stuff. I have to elaborate, this is supposed to be put together, 100% in my shop without the cool tools. I probably should elaborate upon my production technique to give readers a better understanding as to my capabilities to overcome those.

When I created that first wing from scratch, I cut up 20 strips of balsa in a uniform rectangle shape on the chop saw, I could stack 10+ 1/16" sheets and expanded the volume of that in context, I then clamped them together and hit the entire run with the sanding block to form a proper aerfoil, used a file to cut out the grooves to fit the leading/trailing edge and crossmember, it took seconds and I had a perfect set of symmetrical formed flat bottom ribs, all I have to do next is place metal, or other hard substance jigs on either end in the shape of the final production rib to act as a stop guide, if you can picture it, the Jenny is good in it's design that way.

Thanks for the compliments on the bird btw, you see my inspiration on this one. :)

[easytiger]

This is all good advice, I'm very much going to look into all of that now that you brought them up, it just felt like you are totally on your own, glad GWS and the rest are hip on helping out with this stuff. I have to elaborate, this is supposed to be put together, 100% in my shop without the cool tools. I probably should elaborate upon my production technique to give readers a better understanding as to my capabilities to overcome those.

When I created that first wing from scratch, I cut up 20 strips of balsa in a uniform rectangle shape on the chop saw, I could stack 10+ 1/16" sheets and expanded the volume of that in context, I then clamped them together and hit the entire run with the sanding block to form a proper aerfoil, used a file to cut out the grooves to fit the leading/trailing edge and crossmember, it took seconds and I had a perfect set of symmetrical formed flat bottom ribs, all I have to do next is place metal, or other hard substance jigs on either end in the shape of the final production rib to act as a stop guide, if you can picture it, the Jenny is good in it's design that way.

Thanks for the compliments on the bird btw, you see my inspiration on this one. :)

I don't mean to be a drag, and I know you don't want to hear how it cannot be done, but I just want to point a few things out.
Your sanded rib technique, you act as if this is some sort of discovery, but it's very, very standard technique for those of us who have turned out balsa models by the dozens or hundreds. It's a decent way of making up ribs. It is NOT suitable for mass production, it takes too much time, wastes too much wood, generates too much dust, and has too many chances for error. Laser or die-cut is the way to go.

Also, you want to REPRODUCE someone else's design. Try starting with an original design, a clean sheet of paper.

Also...if you just want to mess around, great. If you are serious about actually making these models, and actually would not like to lose TOO much money(notice...I am NOT saying "make a profit", as that is a rather unlikely contingency), then don't reinvent the wheel so hard...notice NOBODY is making ARFs in the USA? Ever really consider why? But, hey, you don't want to hear it. Good luck.

[SaucerGuy]

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[firemanbill]

Are you saying you built the Genny in your photo from scratch?

[SaucerGuy]

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[firemanbill]

oh I see.... so are you going to do this reproduction then? I saw on another site a couple of months ago where you said you were. Are you any closer to doing it yet?

[SaucerGuy]

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[SaucerGuy]

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[donjiskra]

Very strange resemblance to one being offered by another source.
Amazing !!!

[zappedalaskan]

Time is money. You need to see how long it is taking you to cut the pieces and do the math to see how many hours you spent to build one plane (total time invested divided by the number of pcs in your run) Just to make a kit, then you plan to build each kit yourself (same math) and the time spent covering, finishing, packaging and marketing. Are 5000 people going to pay $145 for a Jenny park flyer? Even if it does say Made in usa on the box. You mentioned quality control and two sentences later your saying it don't have to be perfect, it's an arf. For $145.00 It has to be perfect or your all done.
As far as your plastic goes, just make a thermal/vacuum forming table. It is very easy. I can send you detailed instructions on how I built mine.
I am not trying to take the wind out of your sail here. I can honor your point of view, but I see a lot of people giving you some good advice, Like sourcing out the laser cutting of the kit. It is inexpensive and can be done right on american soil. some of the best quality models I own are made in Japan, Germany, UK, China and many other countries. A good model is a good model no matter where you are standing on the globe. Same goes with a dud.
I am not trying to sound harsh, you asked for honest opinions. the rc community is very global and so is your target customer base. That is one of the neatest things about rc. I have friends all over the world with a common interest. Having fun with models.
I wish you the best of luck in your venture.
Jay

[donjiskra]

I was referring to the Jenny being offered at:
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=6080
and the Jenny Expresso-Outfitters Jenny.

Looks very similar.

No offense intended.

[zappedalaskan]

That is a darn nice plane. Very nice for an arf. Same price as your plane.
We should ask cliff (owner Atlanta hobby) if he will sell 5k pcs. of this arf
Just the rigging alone will take you many hours per plane.
That is a very nice plane though. Stunning detail for an arf.
Jay

http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/tpwing_sm.gif (http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/tpwing_lg.gif)http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/cockpit_sm.gif (http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/cockpit_lg.gif)http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/sidemain_sm.gif (http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/sidemain_lg.gif)
http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/front_sm.gif (http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/front_lg.gif)http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/rear_sm.gif (http://www.atlantahobby.com/images2/Jennyfinal/rear_lg.gif)

[SaucerGuy]

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[SaucerGuy]

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[SaucerGuy]

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[easytiger]

After the flames, and you guys thinking this is all over, I will refrain from explaining further and will let this thread die, wasted my time even posting to watts flyer, should be renamed to watts flying to the ground........

Good luck richard, you are going to need alot more then that to make your op fly, eat my dust, both you and the moderator that was behind your flames............

I don't know who "richard" is, and I doubt any moderator was behind the flames, and after the first couple of posts, I myself stopped responding.
Here's why:
There were some pretty bright and more experienced people here trying to give you some idea of what you might be doing wrong, and instead, they got flames from YOU, and rationalization for WHY you were making each and every mistake you were making, and no changes. So why are you posting it? Just do what you are going to do. Don't bring something up for public scrutiny if you are going to dismiss what anybody else might have to say about it.
I will say it anyway, though: I CRINGE when I see what you are doing. You are backengneering a Chinese made ARF that wholesales for $65 or so, is nicely built, laser cut, and widely available, of a fairly unpopular subject. You are going to make it by hand here in the USA and charge more and lose your shirt doing so. You don't even want to accept that maybe you are NOT breaking new ground here with your production techniques, but instead reinventing a wheel that is already obsolete.
I wish you luck with your venture, and I wish I could be more optimistic about the success, but, generally, people with closed minds who are unwilling to listen to others' experiences don't do so well in business. Nonetheless, I have nothing against you, and if your plane ever comes out, and I am looking for an ARF Jenny, I will compare yours fairly against the three or four others already out there, and make a decision based upon price and quality.

[zappedalaskan]

After the flames, and you guys thinking this is all over, I will refrain from explaining further and will let this thread die, wasted my time even posting to watts flyer, should be renamed to watts flying to the ground........

Good luck richard, you are going to need alot more then that to make your op fly, eat my dust, both you and the moderator and this piece of crap forum "no offense intended"............
I wash my hands of this thread. I hate to see members leave us, but after all is said and done, I really think you should go tell your inspiring story to the fine folks at RCgroups. You will find them much more helpful ;)
I would stick to making coffee stands.. "No offense intended"
Jay

[SaucerGuy]

just read the title, MY IQ is 160, not 60...............

[watt_the?!]

just read the title, MY IQ is 160, not 60...............


http://www.geocities.com/rnseitz/Gaussian.jpg

[firemanbill]

I am sure glad that it's not just me that thinks this fella made no sense whatsoever!

[SaucerGuy]

...............

[firemanbill]

primate(n.)A mammal of the order Primates, which includes the anthropoids and prosimians, characterized by refined development of the hands and feet, a shortened snout, and a large brain.

[easytiger]

http://www.geocities.com/rnseitz/Gaussian.jpg

That still leaves half-a-million geniuses. Evidently, he is one of them! So much for your graphs and charts!

[watt_the?!]

putting info in a chart or pic is like bleeding in a shark pool to you isnt it ET?

[easytiger]

You were being poked fun at...

[Mike Parsons]

I am closing this thread for obvious reasons.

Espresso outfitters,
Calling other members primates and (expletive) will earn you a ban from this site. Consider this your formal warning. Also if you are indeed running a business, word of mouth is a powerful tool. And that is something to consider.