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Mike Parsons
05-10-2006, 04:20 PM
I finished this conversion in a Hail Mary Pass the night before leaving to go to SEFF in Americus Ga. From start to finish it took me 7 hours. I wasnt even sure if the power system that I was going to use would work. On top of that, I would have to maiden it at SEFF in front of hundreds of people. That could be either good...or that could be seriously bad :).

Fortunate for me, my Hail Mary pass hit the inzone and far surpased my expectations. This 68" WS pattern ship came in at 7.5 pounds with 1000 watts available. Roughly 133 watts in. CG was dead on.

The maiden went off without a hitch. I was 20 feet off the deck slow rolling on the second pass. No pitch divergence and it looked beautiful and axial from the beginning of the roll to the end. My only complaint is that I need more elevator throw as I need it to snap more aggressively. Not a bad "only" complaint to have huh?

What's for power? We'lll that is what is throwing people off and even suprised me a bit.

What I am using:

E-flite Power 60 outrunner
16X10 APC E
Pheonix 80
UBEC
6S 4400 Electric Power and 6S 3200 BalancePro from FMAdirect
Hitec Superslim Rx
4- FMA DS3002 servos

The 3200's are light and give good flights. The down side is that he run time isnt enough to complete a sequence. The 4400's are 4 oz heavier, but do give the required runtime to complete a sequence.

This setup and plane would be good for beginners to intermediate, but I would want at least 160-170+ (my preference is 200w/lb) watts to compete above that. For me, this is an excellent practice plane and one I would definately take to competitions once I start.

I will get video soon.....

thunder1
05-10-2006, 04:31 PM
Nice.

But isn't SEFF an AMA sponsored event? Maiden flights aren't supposed to be allowed at AMA sponsored events. "Has this model been flown before" is usually a question on the pilot registration form.

Mike Parsons
05-10-2006, 04:37 PM
AMA is necessary, however they dont sponsor it. It is an organized fly-in. There are no questions upon registration. Anyone with an AMA can register to be a pilot. I maidened my 87" Yak there last year and I maidened this one and a buddies pattern plane there this year. You'd be suprised how many people actually buy and build in the four days there as they dont bring anything with them. :)

-Mike

thunder1
05-10-2006, 05:43 PM
OK. I guess AMA insurance doesn't apply then. Here's rule number 4 of the AMA safety code:

4. I will not fly my model aircraft in sanctioned events, air shows, or model demonstrations until it has been proven airworthy.

rcers
05-10-2006, 05:50 PM
Mike - she is a beauty....Sounds like a winning combo.....

Mike

Mike Parsons
05-10-2006, 05:52 PM
Thanks for the info Thunder. I do remember reading that now that I see it in print. I don't think it applies here, but will keep it in mind :)

Mike Parsons
05-10-2006, 05:53 PM
Thanks Mike. :)

thunder1
05-10-2006, 07:52 PM
SEFF is a recognized AMA event. I don't see how the rule would not apply.

I don't want to sound like some sort or whiner. I just wanted to point out the maidens are prohibited by the AMA at events which draw a lot of people to them.

The safety reason is obvious. The model goes out of control due to radio interference, etc. and plows through the crowd. The frequency with which you state maidens happens at SEFF is alarming.

NUTS
05-11-2006, 12:50 AM
Hey Thunder1,

Don't want to be blunt, but quit your whinning! I have been to SEFF for the last few years and I must say that these guy's know what they are doing. Safety is in the mind of everyone there. Where you there? No!
Go fly and enjoy the hobby.
Can you tell I have very little use for those who quote rules.

Regards,
NUTS

Mike Parsons
05-11-2006, 01:23 AM
The event officially starts at 9am and I maidened at 8:30 am. I skirted the rule I guess :).

I understand where you are coming from Thunder. Keep in mind that we are talking about mostly foamy's being built and maidened and not 28%. Last year one guy did build a Banchee in his hotel room and I maidened it for him. Of course it was after the impound shut down and it was open fly.

Hobby-lobby did a RTF build and fly contest this year (wing dragon if I recall). Whoever built it and flew it the fastest one a gift certificate and all contestants were able to keep the plane. Lots of RTF planes were sold and flown the same day there.

Everyone is very safety concious and my maiden as well as Eric's was done before the show officially started. No different than maidening at my home field IMO. Although there was still 200+ other pilots around :)

Doppelganger
05-11-2006, 01:44 AM
Great looking plane Mike. Makes me want to finish up my Champion 45L.:)

Steve

Twmaster
05-11-2006, 02:51 AM
Nice plane Mike.

So what are your impressions of the Power 60 motor?

Mike Parsons
05-11-2006, 03:40 AM
Thanks Steve :) Git er' done!

Mike,
I really like the Power 60. I had it in my Harrier 46 and it was a rocket. That is what prompted me to try it in this plane. On the last couple of flights, I have been pushing the throttle harder than needed to see what the battery and motor temps come down as. The motor is just ambient as are the batteries. This plane has excellent cooling mind you, so that has a lot to do with it.
I am pushing the motor at 60a static. I am sure it is unloading a bit in the air and with it coming down cool, I know I am not pushing it too hard. I am really impressed of the performance for the price.
E-flite is coming out with a 110 and 160 outrunner that perform very well. They will be a cost effective alternative to some of the outrunners already out there.

I have to check with the boss, but my plan is to try and get some video this Sunday.
-Mike

Twmaster
05-11-2006, 03:53 AM
Thanks Mike. I have evil plans (planes?:)) for one of these motors on a very very big glow conversion.

:D

Doppelganger
05-11-2006, 03:53 AM
Mike, I think I may try a couple of the E-Flite motors. Quite a few people spoke well of them. But, until I read this thread, and your last post in particular, I hadn't made up my mind. If they are good enough for Mike Parsons, then they are good enough for me!:)
Thanks Mike

Steve

thunder1
05-11-2006, 04:32 AM
SEFF is a sanctioned AMA event. Technically, the event begins at midnight and ends at 11:59 p.m. The first contest of the day may have begun at 9 a.m. but the event started at the time mentioned earlier. The CD is Ernie Schlumberger. Have you spoken to him about this topic? One of the requirements of a sanctioned event is that the AMA safety code is followed. It's the CDs responsibility to make sure this is enforced. Of course, the CD passes this responsibility on to each AMA member by requiring the AMA safety code be required. That should have been discussed at the pilot's briefing.

It would only take one bad maiden which injured a spectator to shut SEFF down.

Doppelganger
05-11-2006, 07:40 AM
Good lord! Let it go already. Mike already acknowleged you. There really is no need to go on and on about it. As a matter of fact, the country could use your tenacity in Iraq. I could call a few people if you like. :rolleyes:

Steve

Jeff Boyd 2
05-11-2006, 09:10 AM
Thunder1, what do you want Mike to do? . . . He is a proven competent builder and pilot. His maidens would go better than many pilots could prepare and fly a plane's 50th flight.

Quote: "Maiden flights aren't supposed to be allowed at AMA sponsored events. "Has this model been flown before" is usually a question on the pilot registration form."

SO! How many either ignore the question or answer "YES" . . Prove it hasn't been ! ! Will every model require AMA "witnessed" maidens, and have the model signed in indellible ink by an official of higher order? If anything like that was to happen . . I'm out of here! I'd go do some sort of less dangerous and less restricted type of flying . . like 'base jumping'!

Hey, what if there was a sudden gear failure on one of those larger scale EP's? . . they are certainly 'straining' the technology. Any RC model is capable of failure of equipment . . and then there's pilot error . . WOW, perhaps they best cancel SEFF before something terrible happens.

Whooaa . . now I'm going on . . ! ! (excuse my sarcasm).

Jeff Boyd 2
05-11-2006, 09:24 AM
Sorry about that, guys . .

Mike, I have just received a pack of those 'Electric power' packs, although mine are 20C - 30C burst (check link http://www.wattsuprc.com.au/product_detail.asp?pid=TA0060 )

I have to say, they are probably one of the best performing packs for the money I have tested. Actually, one of my better packs, period (next to one of my Kokam packs).

How do you rate them ?

Mike Parsons
05-11-2006, 01:28 PM
SEFF is a sanctioned AMA event. Technically, the event begins at midnight and ends at 11:59 p.m. The first contest of the day may have begun at 9 a.m. but the event started at the time mentioned earlier. The CD is Ernie Schlumberger. Have you spoken to him about this topic? One of the requirements of a sanctioned event is that the AMA safety code is followed. It's the CDs responsibility to make sure this is enforced. Of course, the CD passes this responsibility on to each AMA member by requiring the AMA safety code be required. That should have been discussed at the pilot's briefing.

It would only take one bad maiden which injured a spectator to shut SEFF down.
Thunder, I am not here to change your opinion. It has been duly noted and I appreciate you sharing it. I think you would have a different opinion if you attended SEFF. I surely hope you get a chance to do so in the future as it is the premier electric event/fly-in.

I am friends with Ernie, as I am Jeff, Rick, Andy, Phil, Mike, Dave and the rest of the gang that puts on SEFF. I even worked the event 2 years ago. I am flying with those guys in a couple of weeks and will be sure to get their take on it.

Now....lets get back to the topic at hand.

Mike Parsons
05-11-2006, 01:43 PM
Sorry about that, guys . .

Mike, I have just received a pack of those 'Electric power' packs, although mine are 20C - 30C burst (check link http://www.wattsuprc.com.au/product_detail.asp?pid=TA0060 )

I have to say, they are probably one of the best performing packs for the money I have tested. Actually, one of my better packs, period (next to one of my Kokam packs).

How do you rate them ?
I really like them. I only have about 6 flights on these in particular, they hold their voltage great. I am bursting them to 15c and they are coming down ambient which tells me they are most likely under rated (cooling does play in this though).

Milton is a local boy to me and runs http://www.eflightbatteries.com. It is nice to have a local source for these packs. He doesnt have all of the packs on the site yet, but he has a load in stock.

I am working on a review for a 2m pattern plane conversion and plan on using two 5S 5400mah packs in it. I really like the balancepro series from FMA too, so I might pick up a 10S pack and let them go head to head for test results.

Mike :)

mmmdowning
05-11-2006, 05:14 PM
Mike,
Nice job on the plane. Looks really nice.

Twmaster
05-11-2006, 05:18 PM
I'm hoping that Power 60 will be enough motor at about 1KW for a 110" Sig Rascal.

I'm also interested in your opinions on those batteries after you've flown them for a bit.

Mike Parsons
05-11-2006, 06:17 PM
Thanks downing.

Mike,
The 110 weights in at 11-12 lbs with a 120 if I recall. With a Power 60 and 6s, you should see about 9lb. That will put you around ~110 w/lb in. Plenty to fly it on. My only concern is the ability to obtain the CG with this light power system. Just something to keep an eye on.

I will keep you all updated on these packs and my continued opinion of them. Good, bad or indifferent :)

MLT67
05-11-2006, 07:35 PM
He is a proven competent builder and pilot. His maidens would go better than many pilots could prepare and fly a plane's 50th flight.

I am fortunate to belong to the same field with Mike P and I totally agree with Jeff's comments. I wasn’t there when he maidened it but I stood next to him Saturday when he flew and it flew like a dream.

Thunder I am sure your motives are in the right place but telling Mike Parsons how to fly an RC plane is like telling Tiger Woods how to play golf so please take his post for what it is.

MLT

Twmaster
05-11-2006, 08:22 PM
Thanks downing.

Mike,
The 110 weights in at 11-12 lbs with a 120 if I recall. With a Power 60 and 6s, you should see about 9lb. That will put you around ~110 w/lb in. Plenty to fly it on. My only concern is the ability to obtain the CG with this light power system. Just something to keep an eye on.

Thanks Mike. I am getting this new un-built Rascal for peanuts so this seems a natural thing to do. Not to mention I just -love- the looks of the Rascal. As for the CG I hear ya. All the gear will end up close to the front. :)

I will keep you all updated on these packs and my continued opinion of them. Good, bad or indifferent :)

Excellent. Thank you.

Jeff Boyd 2
05-12-2006, 01:14 AM
I really like them. I only have about 6 flights on these in particular, they hold their voltage great. I am bursting them to 15c and they are coming down ambient which tells me they are most likely under rated (cooling does play in this though).

Milton is a local boy to me and runs http://www.eflightbatteries.com. It is nice to have a local source for these packs. He doesnt have all of the packs on the site yet, but he has a load in stock.

I am working on a review for a 2m pattern plane conversion and plan on using two 5S 5400mah packs in it. I really like the balancepro series from FMA too, so I might pick up a 10S pack and let them go head to head for test results.

Mike :)

Mike, ask him if he can get 20C 'Electric Power' packs for your 2 X 2 Pattern model (Increase your discharge and lower your battery capacity/weight).

Mine hold 3.4V/cell at 17C (new pack).

Cheers, Jeff.

Mike Parsons
05-12-2006, 01:30 AM
Jeff,
That is exactly what I have for the 2M. I have 2 5S 5400 brick packs of the EP 20C. I picked them up Monday from Milton as he just got a shipment in.

Twmaster
05-12-2006, 01:32 AM
Oh dear God. I can hear my wallet crying right now if I had to buy one of those!

;)

Jeff Boyd 2
05-12-2006, 03:02 AM
Jeff,
That is exactly what I have for the 2M. I have 2 5S 5400 brick packs of the EP 20C. I picked them up Monday from Milton as he just got a shipment in.

Awesome! . . when I looked again, I thought you were a bit light-on for capacity at 12C . . would have been a bit underpowered for "Mike Parsons" ! !

Mike Parsons
05-30-2006, 04:25 AM
Thanks to a club mate (Tony) I was able to get some video today of the dream. Flight was about 6 minutes, I put 3100 mah back in the packs out of 4400 mah. Not bad.

Dream 110 Video 10mb (http://uploadfile.putfile.com/videos/14823024175.wmv)

mmmdowning
05-30-2006, 11:09 AM
Very nice, looked very smooth.

Mike Parsons
07-31-2006, 03:18 AM
Can it get much lower?
http://media.putfile.com/KE-drag