Is a slow stick for a newbie?

[Starmoon]

I have a huge question. In reading online the manual for the SLo-V it says that this model is not for beginners. I know that many peoplle have suggested the slow stick for a brand-new noob. These two a/c are the same pretty much the same except the tail. What makes the SS for a noob and the the slo-V not?

[bsoder]

if it were me I'd seriously consider getting a DX6 + slowstick kit instead of the slo-v. I think they're about the same as far as flying... never personally flown a slo-v but I've watched guys brand new to flight fly one, seems about the same as a slowstick.

[gdhampton]

I would like to offer a third option: That being the Megatech (correction - should read Multiplex) EasyStar. It will withstand more crashes than a Stick, as it is made of foam. It is bigger, to handle the wind better and make it easier to see at a distance. It also uses a pusher prop.

I own a Slow Stick and love it. But, it is fragile and light. An experienced flyer can have a blast in the wind with one, but not the beginner.

I agree with the radio choice, The Spektrum DX is a nice setup.

[t. edwards]

I'm partial to the Slow Stick. I think it and the Slo-V have similar flight characteristics, but the Slow Stick gets my vote becuse I think it's easier to repair (and modify). Tom

[qban_flyer]

I'm partial to the Slow Stick. I think it and the Slo-V have similar flight characteristics, but the Slow Stick gets my vote becuse I think it's easier to repair (and modify). TomIt's cheaper too!:D

[qban_flyer]

BTW:

There is a guy almost giving away one of these and another model for $60, shipping included. :)

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=69686#post69686

[Twmaster]

Megatech EasyStar.

Methinks you mean Multiplex. Megatrash it is not.

:D

[qban_flyer]

That's what the box on my EasyStar said, MULTIPLEX, but since Megatrash has their hands everywhere I kept me mouth shut just in case!:o

[gdhampton]

Methinks you mean Multiplex. Megatrash it is not.

:D

My Bad! Megatech makes the Horse fly helicopter, etc. Sorry for mixing up the names. It should be Multiplex. Sorry!!!!! :o

[Starmoon]

Thanks QBan, PM sent!

[Doc Pete]

OK, The slo-v is a V tail. That means you'll need a mixer, either in the radio or mechanical. It is harder to setup than a standard tail. In addition, a V tail just doesn't reach the same as a standard tail. I've found the V tail likes to wander back and forth, and just doesn't feel as "solid" as the standard tail.
Just me two cents.

[almsy]

Starmoon, I selected the slowstick for my first plane and bought a Spektrum radio to get into this hobby with. I checked out all the recommended planes and did much reading and thought before moving ahead, that's just the way I am. I'm still real new at it. Do I have any regrets? No, none at all. The SS I feel is a nice plane to learn on. I haven't crashed it do to me dumb thumbing it yet, but I have tested it's durability during landings (bouncing off a bush, and also my fishing boat another time) and it will take a beating. During my maiden flight a month ago at the local school's parking lot, the middle light pole of three did grab the plane from about 30 feet up and it came straight down breaking the motor frame and putting a hole in the right wing. A hose clamp now holds the motor on and a little glue and tape fixed the wing and it flies great. I do have much sim time with G3 and I know that has helped, but I still get nervous as you know what when I fly, but it's getting easier. I'm now thinking of adding an EasyStar to start building a collection of planes to fly. I still have 2 unused servos from the radio purchase, and it was one of the planes I was considering going with, but the SS was cheaper to start with. I had thought of the Slo V too, but am happy with what I have.
Oh, by the way, I thought I had the light pole cleared .... I find flying the real thing compared to the sim, it's hard to judge the distance it is and other objects, and fly now in an empty farm field behind my house and hand launch the SS which is very easy to do. I just hope the farmer puts in beans this year and not corn again. I am trying to avoid any area with trees and light poles until I am more comfortable with all this.
Good luck!

[qban_flyer]

Thanks QBan, PM sent!Never got a PM. :confused:

[Starmoon]

Sent to the seller, Qban! :)

[qban_flyer]

Now I get it! :D

[tiredboot]

The slo v is the best and the worst of trainer planes.
The worst because of the wind grounding you (litteraly)most of the time with the stock set-up.
The best because you would have blown only $130 of disposable income(& plane)if you d'ont like the hobby and quit.
The best because if you want to make it fly right(and you to fly it right)you are going to have to learn a bunch of stuff that will make your head ache so bad that you'll be proud later.
Another noob.

[qban_flyer]

The slo v is the best and the worst of trainer planes.
The worst because of the wind grounding you (litteraly)most of the time with the stock set-up.
The best because you would have blown only $130 of disposable income(& plane)if you d'ont like the hobby and quit.
The best because if you want to make it fly right(and you to fly it right)you are going to have to learn a bunch of stuff that will make your head ache so bad that you'll be proud later.
Another noob.That it is, agreed 100% with all of the above. Especially the highlighted sentence. :D

[Doc Pete]

The slo v is the best and the worst of trainer planes.
The worst because of the wind grounding you (litteraly)most of the time with the stock set-up.
The best because you would have blown only $130 of disposable income(& plane)if you d'ont like the hobby and quit.
The best because if you want to make it fly right(and you to fly it right)you are going to have to learn a bunch of stuff that will make your head ache so bad that you'll be proud later.
Another noob.


Not to stop an arguement, but I really don't believe this is a good idea. A newbie should have an easy time of learning and "not have too much thrown at him at one time".
No one should have to learn "over stressed" when learning something new, and R/C is no different.
Sorry, either this is joke, or just a plain bad idea.
There's nothing to be proud about by making something harder to learn than it needs to be. There'll be plenty of time to "crack the books", once you get those blissful first time landings done..........
Pete

[gdhampton]

The best advice, "Try to find a local experienced electric flyer to help."

It is really hard to get all the answers you need when you don't even know the questions to ask. Just building a simple Slow Stick, or something similiar, can be a daunting task if you have no experience with RC airplanes.

[Doc Pete]

The best advice, "Try to find a local experienced electric flyer to help."

It is really hard to get all the answers you need when you don't even know the questions to ask. Just building a simple Slow Stick, or something similiar, can be a daunting task if you have no experience with RC airplanes.

In my 50 years of AMA I've seen many a newbie "almost" quit the hobby from lack of help. Funny, things have come "so far" since the "boom" around the mid 70's, yet the "helping hands" have almost vanished from site.

[gdhampton]

In my 50 years of AMA I've seen many a newbie "almost" quit the hobby from lack of help. Funny, things have come "so far" since the "boom" around the mid 70's, yet the "helping hands" have almost vanished from site.
You are right, and it is a shame.

I started in the 70's, and would not have made it without lots of help. Even then, I quit for a long time after too many crashes with expensive built-up planes.

Now that ARFs are here to stay, all of us need to help people get through the brutal "Learning stages".

Thanks "Doc" for doing your part!

[qban_flyer]

The best advice, "Try to find a local experienced electric flyer to help."

It is really hard to get all the answers you need when you don't even know the questions to ask. Just building a simple Slow Stick, or something similiar, can be a daunting task if you have no experience with RC airplanes.Great advice! :)

[Doc Pete]

You are right, and it is a shame.
Thanks "Doc" for doing your part!

Ya know, I'm really selfish:p . There's not a better feeling than having a student say thanks for helping him nail those dead stick landings.;)

[tiredboot]

No Doc this is not a joke.
I joined the AMA and the local club where nobody knows diddly about E planes.
So it is thanks to these fora and FMS that I didn't quit and got interested.
In the long run I believe that having been sold factory issued mediocrity RTF planes and lack of tutorial will make me a better builder/flyer.
To all newcomers: the learning curve is steep but it's worth it. Take it easy, but take it.

[qban_flyer]

No Doc this is not a joke.
I joined the AMA and the local club where nobody knows diddly about E planes.
So it is thanks to these fora and FMS that I didn't quit and got interested.
In the long run I believe that having been sold factory issued mediocrity RTF planes and lack of tutorial will make me a better builder/flyer.
To all newcomers: the learning curve is steep but it's worth it. Take it easy, but take it.Actually, that is the norm with about 60% of the RC clubs. Only a handfull of them are, or have E-Flight Literate personnel onboard! :eek:

[Doc Pete]

Actually, that is the norm with about 60% of the RC clubs. Only a handfull of them are, or have E-Flight Literate personnel onboard! :eek:

Man, sorry to hear that. Our field is about 90% electric and loving it...........I guess I'm spoiled:o .

[Doc Pete]

No Doc this is not a joke.
I joined the AMA and the local club where nobody knows diddly about E planes.

So I guess there's finally "something" good about New Jersey:D ...... electric fields all over..........

[Tinlid]

I think my Slo-v is possesed:eek:

[tiredboot]

Probably by the spirit of Jimmy Offa rising from an unmarked grave in New Jersey.
Just get a union card and you'll be fine.
Warning: THIS is a joke.

[qban_flyer]

Man, sorry to hear that. Our field is about 90% electric and loving it...........I guess I'm spoiled:o .I belong to two E-Clubs. We only fly E-Powered models. I gave up on the other two clubs I belonged to since they "resent" electrics. :eek:

I have no clue as to what they are afraid of, but some of them surely dislike electrics with a passion! :eek:

[qban_flyer]

I think my Slo-v is possesed:eek:Looks like you will be needing the services of an E-Xorcist for your Slo-V! :D

[Doc Pete]

I have no clue as to what they are afraid of, but some of them surely dislike electrics with a passion! :eek:

Sounds like the typical "Planes/Copter" thing......sorry to hear that.

[qban_flyer]

Sounds like the typical "Planes/Copter" thing......sorry to hear that.Matter of fact, that is another one of the problems those two clubs have. It's the fixed wings vs. he rotary ones. Then both gang up together against the electrics :eek:.

[Doc Pete]

Matter of fact, that is another one of the problems those two clubs have. It's the fixed wings vs. he rotary ones. Then both gang up together against the electrics :eek:.


OH you poor Baby. Do you need a hug from Mommy???:D Just kidding..........
Yeah, it does take time to find the right field.

[qban_flyer]

OH you poor Baby. Do you need a hug from Mommy???:D Just kidding..........
Yeah, it does take time to find the right field.YUP!

I know. It's not the way it used to be back in the '60s though. Everyone was willing to lend a helping hand to the newcomer. The good old gasser days was a friendly epoch.

Nowadays is every man (or woman) for himself/herself at most RC fields, especially when t comes to E-Newbies. There have been countless occasions when I have gone flying, only to come home with my planes never having been taken out of the vehicle. Yes I have flown in those occasions, but it was someone else's plane(s) while assisting them in their learning curve.

I am not complaining for I enjoy helping others in that respect. I have seen many abandon this hobby because they had no one willing (they were able) to give them a helping hand. Sad, really sad. :o

[Doc Pete]

I am not complaining for I enjoy helping others in that respect. I have seen many abandon this hobby because they had no one willing (they were able) to give them a helping hand. Sad, really sad. :o

Yup.....
I keep saying. I love it when I heard one guy tell another, "Pete helped with my plane it fly's much better now". I'm a gluten for praise from other guy's. Dang, it can't get much better than that!!:D
It's like the wife sayin', "Honey, why don't fly til dark, you deserve it!":p :p

[qban_flyer]

Yup.....
I keep saying. I love it when I heard one guy tell another, "Pete helped with my plane it fly's much better now". I'm a gluten for praise from other guy's. Dang, it can't get much better than that!!:D
It's like the wife sayin', "Honey, why don't fly til dark, you deserve it!":p :pHMMM!!!

If my wife told me that, a red flag would go up immediately as it would be so "out of character" for her to say so! :eek:

Mind you, I would go flying, but would come home sooner than expected, much, much sooner! :D

[Doc Pete]

HMMM!!!

If my wife told me that, a red flag would go up immediately as it would be so "out of character" for her to say so! :eek:

Mind you, I would go flying, but would come home sooner than expected, much, much sooner! :D

Well, you need to buy the wife a $5,000 JD tractor/blower. She loves to cut the lawn...Ah, bribery still is in fashion.:D :p

[qban_flyer]

Well, you need to buy the wife a $5,000 JD tractor/blower. She loves to cut the lawn...Ah, bribery still is in fashion.:D :pBrilliant, an absolutely and smashingly brilliant idea! :D

[Tinlid]

Well, you need to buy the wife a $5,000 JD tractor/blower. She loves to cut the lawn...Ah, bribery still is in fashion.:D :p
shhhhhhhh $5,000!!!!!!:eek: i get away with $10.00 BOX OF CHOCKLATE'S if this get's out i'm doomed!!:(

[Doc Pete]

shhhhhhhh $5,000!!!!!!:eek: i get away with $10.00 BOX OF CHOCKLATE'S if this get's out i'm doomed!!:(

Just wondering, What's your address??:p Not that I want to talk to your wife.:D

[Tinlid]

Just wondering, What's your address??:p Not that I want to talk to your wife.:D
PETE GO FLY A PLANE!!!!!!:D :D :D

[Doc Pete]

PETE GO FLY A PLANE!!!!!!:D :D :D

Hmmmmmmmmm, I can't possibly imagine you think I "might" have "other" than the best intentions.:p :p ;)

[Starmoon]

Not meaning to be rude, but I don't think my question was answered....what makes a Slo-V "not newbie friendly" and a slow stick "newbie friendly"?

[VOLUNTEER]

No Doc this is not a joke.
I joined the AMA and the local club where nobody knows diddly about E planes.
So it is thanks to these fora and FMS that I didn't quit and got interested.
In the long run I believe that having been sold factory issued mediocrity RTF planes and lack of tutorial will make me a better builder/flyer.
To all newcomers: the learning curve is steep but it's worth it. Take it easy, but take it.


That's exactly how I feel. I bought my first plane in February and maidened aN SS yesterday. If I had known it would take me 3 months to do that I probably wouldn't have started in the first place. Most of the 3 months was taken up in learning enough about the hobby to set up a plane that would actually fly and,also, in dealing with the retailers who will sell you anything without regard to your experience and knowledge.

When I first opend that SS box it looked like an old erector set but based upon my experiences I would definately reccommend the SS as a first plane -just don't expect a lot of the help from the average LHS.

[firemanbill]

Vol, your close enough to Deb Hicks over in Etowah NC. Go see them and you'll get tons of good advice! "GO VOLS"!



Moon, the biggest differnce in the slov and the SS that I can see is the vtail on the slo-v. I don't think it'll make that big a diff flying them. The thing is your radio gear in the slov wouldn't be transferrable to a regular tail type a/c. the SS doesn't come with a radio though so you need to figure that into the equation.

There's a ton of variables in there that make most planes better or worse than the one you compare them to.

[Starmoon]

thanks bill....this is what I figured...lol

[VOLUNTEER]

[quote=firemanbill;70933]Vol, your close enough to Deb Hicks over in Etowah NC. Go see them and you'll get tons of good advice! "GO VOLS"!



Bill, I've read many of Miss Hick's posts and she is indeed knowledgeable. Etowah may look close to Chattanooga but it is a long haul over those mountains. I'm going to join one of those clubs around here soon so I'm sure help will be available there.

[Doc Pete]

Not meaning to be rude, but I don't think my question was answered....what makes a Slo-V "not newbie friendly" and a slow stick "newbie friendly"?

I believe you didn't read "MY" post...............
Here it is again......

OK, The slo-v is a V tail. That means you'll need a mixer, either in the radio (must be a better radio) or mechanical(must buy and setup correctly). It is harder to setup than a standard tail. In addition, a V tail just doesn't reach the same as a standard tail. I've found the V tail likes to wander back and forth, and just doesn't feel as "solid" as the standard tail.
Just my two cents.

[qban_flyer]

Not meaning to be rude, but I don't think my question was answered....what makes a Slo-V "not newbie friendly" and a slow stick "newbie friendly"?The Slo-V RTF version is a bit more difficult to set up mechanically because of its V tail configuration to begin with. Some require to be adjusted this way while some do not. It is difficult for a newconer to do so.

The LHS in Burtonsville, MD has had issues with the transmitters on some of those as well. Their return ratio (all had non operational TXs) is not high, but there is always the possibility the Slo-V may have a QC issue with that particular model. :o

[adhoc]

It's like the wife sayin', "Honey, why don't fly til dark, you deserve it!":p :p Hey, over the weekend I actually discovered a justification for flying that could someday actually lead to my wife saying something like that...

I took the kids out with me for a little early evening flying in the park across the street. I warned them ahead of time that we weren't going to play in the park, we were going to fly in the park, and that they'd have to stay with me and watch the airplane. (They're 4 and 6.)

Of course, they didn't stay with me, but ran around following my EasyStar. Their batteries ran out before the plane's did. {grin} And they slept soundly that night. A practical use for RC aircraft! (Not that we need one, but any justification helps...) {smile}

[Starmoon]

I believe you didn't read "MY" post...............
Here it is again......

OK, The slo-v is a V tail. That means you'll need a mixer, either in the radio (must be a better radio) or mechanical(must buy and setup correctly). It is harder to setup than a standard tail. In addition, a V tail just doesn't reach the same as a standard tail. I've found the V tail likes to wander back and forth, and just doesn't feel as "solid" as the standard tail.
Just my two cents.

I'm sorry--yes you responded.....but I don;t undertstand how hobbyzone can call its line of vtail a/c beginner then....It is confusing to me...

[firemanbill]

It is confusing to me...

Starmoon if you have the funds I'd got the slow stick route and the spektrum radio. That way you have a radio that will support your next plane not if, but when you get it. As Doc Pete and others have mentioned the ss will be easier to setup and fly!

[qban_flyer]

I agree with FB 100%. It may seem expensive in the beginning, but it is the cheapest route in the long run. ;)

[tiredboot]

Concure with FB and Qban,I started(still starting)with the slo v and I am allready replacing power system and electronics to make it a workable trainer under local flying conditions.
The attraction to the slo v for raw beginners like me is that it is the whole package. The catch22 is that you'll have few chances to fly it long enough to learn to fly it in any wind/altitude, I assume the same hold true for the SS.
BUT it will force you to learn(if you are hooked)the multiple parameters of E flight till you have a workable machine.
The SS as an ARF would have stumped me.
The point is to get airborne for a few seconds/minutes and all else his history(house,wife, money,etc...)

[firemanbill]

The point is to get airborne for a few seconds/minutes and all else his history(house,wife, money,etc...)

LOL Boot, still got the house and the wife but all my money is gone!:D

[qban_flyer]

Concure with FB and Qban,I started(still starting)with the slo v and I am allready replacing power system and electronics to make it a workable trainer under local flying conditions.
The attraction to the slo v for raw beginners like me is that it is the whole package. The catch22 is that you'll have few chances to fly it long enough to learn to fly it in any wind/altitude, I assume the same hold true for the SS.
BUT it will force you to learn(if you are hooked)the multiple parameters of E flight till you have a workable machine.
The SS as an ARF would have stumped me.
The point is to get airborne for a few seconds/minutes and all else his history(house,wife, money,etc...) Hope she doesn't get to read W/F! :D

[qban_flyer]

I'm sorry--yes you responded.....but I don;t undertstand how hobbyzone can call its line of vtail a/c beginner then....It is confusing to me...In the vernacular that talk is referred to as plain unadulterated HYPE. "Promotional" sales talk is what those in the industry call it. I call it rubbish. Unfortunately, there is a lot of that going around in this hobby. :o

[tiredboot]

Hope she doesn't get to read W/F! :D
Nah, I traded her PC for a himaxx outrunner...Dunno, seemed like the right move at the time.

[Tinlid]

I'm sorry--yes you responded.....but I don;t undertstand how hobbyzone can call its line of vtail a/c beginner then....It is confusing to me...
Let's put it this way you'll learn a lot by owning one you may not fly it often but you will definetly learn a lot i know i have my slo-v has not had two flights the same and i'm always tinkering with it to see what the out come is. as a beginner's plane yes and no the slo-v is great to fly in dead calm conditions you would say not to hard for a beginner but add slightly different conditions a slight breeze and it's a whole new ball game let me give you an example i flew my slo-v early one morning in calm condition's it flew great perfect landing i could not have been more pleased with it i then flew it that same afternoon in a slight breeze and i struggled with it and nosed it into the grass i then flew it the next morning and had another great flight the landing was not so hot and i think that's the way it is with the slo-v every flight can be different and that maybe why it's really hard to give you a straight answer to your question i'm not sorry i've got one but you might be.

[qban_flyer]

Hope she doesn't get to read W/F! :D
Nah, I traded her PC for a himaxx outrunner...Dunno, seemed like the right move at the time.Bad move. It's gonna be long cold winters from now on! :D :D :D

[qban_flyer]

Starmoon.

Tinlid has just confirmed what we have been saying all along. Lots of tinkering and no two flights are alike with the Slo-V. :eek:

[Solcat]

- You can get a free flight simulator at http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html (http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html) You can download a lot of available models into it. Use a two stick analog game controller for $12 from Walmart
-
The cheapest starter is the Air Hogs Aero Ace. It’s $30 RTF including a transmitter. It’s only controlled by thrust of the two motors so you can’t do loops and it will fly different from a rudder and elevator plane, but its’ tough. It only needs the space of a two car garage to fly.
-
With a Slow Stick you will go through a ton of props, a motor and maybe a fuselage before you are competent. A Slow Stick does require only the space of a baseball field to fly. It’s more of a “floater”. A Multiplex Easy star is bigger than a slow stick, much tougher, has a very difficult to break pusher propeller and can handle more wind. It's available RTF for about $180 and as a ARF for $55. The Easy star requires the space of a soccer field to fly. They soar well. See http://www.plawner.net/3/1st_plane/ (http://www.plawner.net/3/1st_plane/) in which he recommends mainly Multiplex planes for their toughness and ease of construction. They also fly very well. Other options from Multiplex are the Easy Glider and the Twin Star II.
-
- I think the best idea would be to get a receiver ready Mutliplex Easy Glider Electric, which is all built except the receiver installation and get a JR Spectrum radio and receiver for it. Would make a 4 channel great trainer.

http://www.redrockethobbies.com/Spe...M_p/spm2460.htm (http://www.redrockethobbies.com/Spektrum_DX6_DSM_p/spm2460.htm)

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240107.asp (http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240107.asp)


- A wise addition to most planes:

http://www.aeromicro.com/Catalog/gw...ba__1500029.htm (http://www.aeromicro.com/Catalog/gws_be-found_aircraft_beeper__futaba__1500029.htm)

[jcblough]

It should be noted that the parkzone slo-v is not marketed as a beginner plane by hobbyzone. I looked at it getting started and emailed some of their reps on it and they did not recommend it as a first plane. I don't think it is the v-tail tha makes it non-newbie. My freedom is a v-tail and so are all the other aerobirds.

On some of the other ramblings re clubs and experienced pilots, I can say I've had nothing but bad luck with help and clubs and if it weren't for rtf's, I'd still be into r/c cars exclusively.
The first field I visited, the guy I spoke to seemed more annoyed that I asked questions than anything. I think I left the field w/ 2 thoughts - expensive and difficult. I finally 3 years later broke down and bought a glow trainer and joined a different field - all glow. I was told I would "spend alot of time learning on the ground at first" then I showed up and the plane went straight into the air at WOT the whole time. Crashed when the aileron servo fried. I flew a 1/2 a tank on another trainer and went home never to return again. In all honesty, I've found r/c pilots to be exponenetially less helpful than r/c car guys at the lhs and track - which is sad cuz you can figure out alot on a car w/ experimentation, not so w/ a plane.

[Idaho]

I tried a two channel Firebird XL first. Bad idea. Two channels is not enough control to learn with. You're almost guaranteed to have the wind take it away on you. Frustrating and once you do learn it, boring to fly. One good thing, the plane is highly durable, and due to pusher prop configuration, no broken props or damaged motors. The electronics are junk.

I next invested in lipo and brushless gear (love the 400XT) with spektrum DX6 and put them on a slow stick. No regrets whatsoever on the gear and radio.

Here's the rub. I like the SS and now don't break it up (much) but....

I hear the SS called durable. A better description would be "repairable". For a beginner the SS is fragile. The SS tail breaks up very easily. Yes it's fixable but it's a big frustration for a beginner. I repaired and replaced mine several times. I built a balsa replacement that's holding up but I'm not crashing so hard now. You'll also go through a lot of props and likely a motor/gear box or two and a hard nose-in will bend the fuse. I crashed much harder with the Firebird with no significant damage.

Every damage incident puts a halt to the important initial stage of learning to fly the thing and set it down unharmed. This is when a lot of people leave the hobby.

Another significant drawback for a beginner is you are also very limited as a beginner by wind. Yes this applies to any model but especially with the SS. It can be frustrating waiting for that calm day, then have it cut short due to the need for repairs.

My hindsight says go with a durable pusher model. I haven't tried an Easy Star but it seems like an ideal starter if you can afford it. Your fun factor would climb a lot faster in my opinion. If you want to spend less try a durable RTF pusher that comes with all the gear.

One caveat. My experience is without an experienced pilot to help. If you have a teacher and buddy box your options are wide open.

[qban_flyer]

I tried a two channel Firebird XL first. Bad idea. Two channels is not enough control to learn with. You're almost guaranteed to have the wind take it away on you. Frustrating and once you do learn it, boring to fly. One good thing, the plane is highly durable, and due to pusher prop configuration, no broken props or damaged motors. The electronics are junk.

I next invested in lipo and brushless gear (love the 400XT) with spektrum DX6 and put them on a slow stick. No regrets whatsoever on the gear and radio.

Here's the rub. I like the SS and now don't break it up (much) but....

I hear the SS called durable. A better description would be "repairable". For a beginner the SS is fragile. The SS tail breaks up very easily. Yes it's fixable but it's a big frustration for a beginner. I repaired and replaced mine several times. I built a balsa replacement that's holding up but I'm not crashing so hard now. You'll also go through a lot of props and likely a motor/gear box or two and a hard nose-in will bend the fuse. I crashed much harder with the Firebird with no significant damage.

Every damage incident puts a halt to the important initial stage of learning to fly the thing and set it down unharmed. This is when a lot of people leave the hobby.

Another significant drawback for a beginner is you are also very limited as a beginner by wind. Yes this applies to any model but especially with the SS. It can be frustrating waiting for that calm day, then have it cut short due to the need for repairs.

My hindsight says go with a durable pusher model. I haven't tried an Easy Star but it seems like an ideal starter if you can afford it. Your fun factor would climb a lot faster in my opinion. If you want to spend less try a durable RTF pusher that comes with all the gear.

One caveat. My experience is without an experienced pilot to help. If you have a teacher and buddy box your options are wide open.

Reapirable models make them durable as they last longer. :D

Learning how to repair your RC flying model is part of the learning curve. The ones that leave the hobby because they have to repair their plane were never interested in the hobby per se. :o

There will come a time in every model's lifespan they will have to be repaired. Better to learn that lesson early in the modeling career. :p

BTW: I went through nine models before I was able to keep one airborne longer than three minutes. My tenth one was the one that put me over the top. That was back in the days when we had to assemble everyting. No ARFS back in those days. I survived it! :eek:

[Doc Pete]

I hear the SS called durable. A better description would be "repairable". For a beginner the SS is fragile. The SS tail breaks up very easily. Yes it's fixable but it's a big frustration for a beginner. I repaired and replaced mine several times. I built a balsa replacement that's holding up but I'm not crashing so hard now. You'll also go through a lot of props and likely a motor/gear box or two and a hard nose-in will bend the fuse. .

Sorry, I love you, but you're still doing it the wrong way.

As I keep saying (Mike MM has some input), if you had bought a sim first, you'd have already saved more money than you spend on crashing, saved all the time on rebuilding, and "by now", would be having the time of your life flying without crashing.
Again, it's simple a no brainer.....Save money, save time, learn to fly quicker...

And, as I understand, they are free sims out there that are acceptable to learn orientation......What more could you ask for????:o :o

[Doc Pete]

BTW: I went through nine models before I was able to keep one airborne longer than three minutes. My tenth one was the one that put me over the top. That was back in the days when we had to assemble everyting. No ARFS back in those days. I survived it! :eek:

Errrrrrrrr.... I wouldn't be proud of that......:p :p
You should have bitten the bullet, let your woman's side out, and asked for help (not driving directions:D)...............

[qban_flyer]

Errrrrrrrr.... I wouldn't be proud of that......:p :p
You should have bitten the bullet, let your woman's side out, and asked for help (not driving directions:D)...............I am not proud of it, though I am proud to have survived it all, especially in an era when things were so expensive and difficult to attain.:o

I got so good that I would go to the field, crash my Flacon 56 by 10 am, go to the hobby shop and get another one. Take it home and start working on it at 3 PM (Titebond and Ambroid days), work through the night and be at the field the next morning (9:30 am) ready to demolish another one again.

There were no instructors around in those days so I had to learn by the seat of my pants. It's the reason I am willing and able to assist others whenever I can. My last trainee was a 75 year old youngster. He soloed last October, it makes me proud to see him enjoy this hobby as much as he does. He can't build worth a hoot though. :eek:

YUP! Proud that I stuck with it and survived it all! Talk about perseverance. :eek:

[Idaho]

Learning how to repair your RC flying model is part of the learning
curve. The ones that leave the hobby because they have to repair their
plane were never interested in the hobby per se. :o

There will come a time in every model's lifespan they will have to be
repaired. Better to learn that lesson early in the modeling career. :p

BTW: I went through nine models before I was able to keep one airborne
longer than three minutes. My tenth one was the one that put me over
the top. That was back in the days when we had to assemble everyting.
No ARFS back in those days. I survived it! :eek:

I can't disagree with any of that in fact I feel I've learned a lot with my SS experience. However I do think there's folks out there that don't have that initial tenacity or fixing skill or whatever you have that kept you going through nine models :eek: but still would have a blast if they get an easy start.


Sorry, I love you, but you're still doing it the wrong way.

As I keep saying (Mike MM has some input), if you had bought a sim first,
you'd have already saved more money than you spend on crashing, saved
all the time on rebuilding, and "by now", would be having the time of your
life flying without crashing.



The odd person can learn by reading about others mistakes.
Some can learn by seeing others mistakes.
Some just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

Thanks for loving those of us who need to pee on the fence. :D

BTW I spent a lot of time on the FMS sim and found it very helpful but not enough to prevent crashing. You're right about having a teacher but if that were my only option I'd not be in the hobby. The $20.00 airframe makes the "crash to learn" method feasible. My guess is there's a high percentage of beginners learning this way (peeing on the fence).

Another thing to keep in mind, you guys have been at this so long you can't remember what it's like to be a beginner. :p :p :p

I'm giving the "fellow-newb" perspective. Of course it might change tomorrow. Listen to the voices of experience.

[qban_flyer]

Another thing to keep in mind, you guys have been at this so long you can't remember what it's like to be a beginner. :p :p :p

I'm giving the "fellow-newb" perspective. Of course it might change tomorrow. Listen to the voices of experience.Every single time I take on a new student, I relive the past. One can never forget the good old days, regardless of how tough they were. You'll be doing the same 40 years down the road. :D :D :D

[Doc Pete]

[php]Another thing to keep in mind, you guys have been at this so long you can't remember what it's like to be a beginner. :p :p :p


Actually, I can, and still do everyday. This is what makes me enjoy helping beginners so much.

In fact, I remember the day my terrific (seriously) instructor first took off my "RCM trainer 40", said it was fine, and was just about to hand it me to try when a guy in a Kaos 60, went vertical, didn't look or care at all, and cut my trainer in half and keep going up.
Didn't like that at all.:( :(

[Doc Pete]

Every single time I take on a new student, I relive the past. One can never forget the good old days, regardless of how tough they were. You'll be doing the same 40 years down the road. :D :D :D

Uh, it's just a bit over 40 years since I first helped my first C/L newbie.... My Dad.;) Boy, did he ever get dizzy. Just couldn't stop staring at the model, instead of putting in the center of a big circle to look at.

Ah...... then I got my Voodoo, with a K&B series "61" 35. Clocked it over 100 on "Missle Mist"...........

[qban_flyer]

Actually, I can, and still do everyday. This is what makes me enjoy helping beginners so much.

In fact, I remember the day my terrific (seriously) instructor first took off my "RCM trainer 40", said it was fine, and was just about to hand it me to try when a guy in a Kaos 60, went vertical, didn't look or care at all, and cut my trainer in half and keep going up.
Didn't like that at all.:( :(
I had the 60, what a flying machine. All of Bridi's designs were works of art. :)

It never happened to me, but I would still be cursing him if it had! :p :p :p

[Idaho]

Every single time I take on a new student, I relive the past. One can
never forget the good old days, regardless of how tough they were. You'll
be doing the same 40 years down the road. :D :D :DToday 08:04 PM

I guess I might have another 40 years if I'm lucky. I'm already a grandpa so not exactly a newb in life, just to this hobby.

It's sure great to have the benefit of so many kind folks at one's fingertips. Thanks for all the helpful advice all over this forum.

It's really an amazing thing when you think about it. Without a doubt this kind of exchange is greatly accelerating the growth and development of the hobby. Makes me wonder what this hobby will be like 40 years from now. :)

[qban_flyer]

Every single time I take on a new student, I relive the past. One can
never forget the good old days, regardless of how tough they were. You'll
be doing the same 40 years down the road. :D :D :DToday 08:04 PM

I guess I might have another 40 years if I'm lucky. I'm already a grandpa so not exactly a newb in life, just to this hobby.

It's sure great to have the benefit of so many kind folks at one's fingertips. Thanks for all the helpful advice all over this forum.

It's really an amazing thing when you think about it. Without a doubt this kind of exchange is greatly accelerating the growth and development of the hobby. Makes me wonder what this hobby will be like 40 years from now. :)Longevity is a mistery to all of us. Perhaps the greatest of them all. Lets enjoy life to the fullest for whatever amount of time has been allocated to each and everyone of us. :)

AH! The future. I wonder how things might be in the future as well. Hope it will be better for those left behind. :)

[gtxkid]

I would not grt one
I would go with a T-halk
We have them in our area and what i like most is you can modifi it as you go and also the parts are cheep wing 10.00 tail 4.00 fuselage 7.00.
you can order just the plane so you can buy like an Eclipes 7 hitec raidio with spectrum for 204.00 and it will work with Heli and sailplaane as well.
I have a slow -v and hate it.
From Greg

[firemanbill]

I would not grt one
I would go with a T-halk
We have them in our area and what i like most is you can modifi it as you go and also the parts are cheep wing 10.00 tail 4.00 fuselage 7.00.
you can order just the plane so you can buy like an Eclipes 7 hitec raidio with spectrum for 204.00 and it will work with Heli and sailplaane as well.
I have a slow -v and hate it.
From Greg

Greg,

All the reasons you mentioned not to get one is a reason to get one!
ss fuse 3.00
wing 12.00
tail assembly 9.00

Does not come with a radio so you can get whichever one you want. I'd recomment the Spektrum. Plus it is easily modifiable! and it's only 35 bucks new, with brushed motor.

The SS is not a sloV:D

Bill

[Matt Kirsch]

I'm sorry--yes you responded.....but I don;t undertstand how hobbyzone can call its line of vtail a/c beginner then....It is confusing to me...

It's not because of the V-tail specifically. There's nothing about a V-tail that makes it "bad" or "wrong" for a beginner. It controls just like a conventional rudder/elevator in the air.

I'm not sure where people are saying the V-tail is more difficult to set up versus the conventional tail on a Slow-Stick. Either plane needs to be set up and trimmed out the first time up. It's actually SIMPLER to adjust the V-tail on a Slo-V because all you need to do is turn the little adjuster screw to take up or release some of the tension on the fishing line.

It may be Horizon doing "CYA" (cover your anterior) by saying that the Slo-V is not suitable for a beginner. It may be differences of opinion based on wind, as it is usually too windy in most places for these planes if you're a beginner.

The other thing to look at here is WHO is making the recommendation. END USERS are endorsing the Slow-Stick as a good beginner's plane. I don't think GWS says one way or the other. Horizon, the manufacturer, is recommending the Slo-V for intermediate pilots. I always go with the end users' recommendations over the manufacturers', especially if so many are in agreement.

Quite frankly, I can't fathom why the Slo-V would be any less suitable for a beginner than a Slow-Stick...

[VOLUNTEER]

I bet Starmoon is as confused as I am. So glad I didn't read this thread before I decided on my first plane.:)

[firemanbill]

I bet Starmoon is as confused as I am. So glad I didn't read this thread before I decided on my first plane.:)

You can get information overload in a hurry in this hobby!:eek: I'm with ya Vol man. I got my first plane before I got into the forums. Kind of glad I did too!

Bill

[Doc Pete]

Greg,

All the reasons you mentioned not to get one is a reason to get one!
ss fuse 3.00
wing 12.00
tail assembly 9.00
Bill

Yes Bill, correct! However, everyone keeps leaving out the biggest reason to get a SS. And that is, "Everyone" already has one, "WHICH" means we can offer all the in's and out's of the SS, how to fix to it, modify it, tweek it, where to find special parts for it and generally anything about it.
Pete

[jcblough]

Half off topic question - is the SS just a fun plane to own or is it basically just something people still have in their hangar from learning?

[firemanbill]

Yes Bill, correct! However, everyone keeps leaving out the biggest reason to get a SS. And that is, "Everyone" already has one, "WHICH" means we can offer all the in's and out's of the SS, how to fix to it, modify it, tweek it, where to find special parts for it and generally anything about it.
Pete

Bingo Doc!

And yes it is a fun plane to own JC, I have everything from a pico cub to a 62 inch 4 motor C-130 and just about every time I go out the SS comes with me!:D

[bsoder]

Half off topic question - is the SS just a fun plane to own or is it basically just something people still have in their hangar from learning?

I think a lot of people keep one around, I know I do. They're just a fun, relaxing plane to fly.

[almsy]

Actually I went with the SS for my first plane from what I read in the forum threads and am most happy with that choice and the Spektrum radio. After a month of newbieness, is that a word?, I actually enjoy flying the SS in up to 10mph winds, it loops even easier going into the wind.:) I feel I control it now and not the other way around, as during the first few flights -- and to think of what it will do with a brushless!!

I have now on order an Easystar, a Yak-55 foamy from HL (for later this summer of course), and a couple BL motors coming too. I am really enjoying this hobby! LiPos and charger next payday --

[Doc Pete]

Half off topic question - is the SS just a fun plane to own or is it basically just something people still have in their hangar from learning?

My SS comes to the field every week. It will hold it's own with a 2 meter standard glider for thermal time. It will fly when most guy's have gone home because of too much wind. It's just a ball to fly...........
Pete

[Eric_N57105]

I hear the SS called durable. A better description would be "repairable". For a beginner the SS is fragile.
I agree. I bought an SS on recommendation from a friend and because nearly everyone at the field I fly at has one. Flying with an informal instructor is very helpful, but once a week is NOT enough flying to remember what you learned the week before and add something new. I flew full-size airplanes and the minimum they recommend is 2-3 times a week.

So I have to go to the field frequently alone. Virtually every landing with an SS that is not on the wheels breaks something. You can count on it. Most of the time it is AT LEAST a prop. But that fuselage bends VERY easily even with wood down the middle. I bought enough props to make up the difference in price between an SS and an Easy Star (my first choice that I should have gone with).

Every damage incident puts a halt to the important initial stage of learning to fly the thing and set it down unharmed. This is when a lot of people leave the hobby.
And that's the worst of it. Yes, you are learning value skills while you are sitting on your tailgate gluing cheap foam back together, but those are skills you can learn later. FIRST, the focus should be on flying. I never had a flight instructor tell me I should be learning how to bolt a Cessna back together as part of my FLIGHT training.

We have a similar "controversy" in ham radio. Years ago hams had to build a lot of their gear. Then ready made gear became more accessible to just about anyone. The old-timers tended to call the ones who bought ready made gear "appliance operators". I'm hearing that same sort of thing from some of the old-timers here. Not all of us have the same goals. Some of us want to fly, some of us want to build, some of us want to do both. RC modelers are forced to learn how to fix their planes since they will break sooner or later. But that doesn't mean we need some sort of character building exercises building our own airplanes.

I think an SS should be left as a fun, relaxing flyer for pilots whose take offs don't seriously outnumber their successful landings. Fixing an airplane after nearly every flight is frustrating, not character building or instructional.

I can see that I'm one day going to be very happy with the Slow Stick. I watch the experienced pilots fling them around the sky with a grin on their face and I know that will happen for me someday. But I really really don't think the Slow Stick deserves its reputation as a first plane when there are just so many more durable airplanes whose design intentionally takes into consideration the mistakes that new pilots will make...like all foam construction and pusher props.

Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

[Idaho]

Very well said.

Perhaps one could distill the following from the above:

No doubt the SS can be a very good beginner plane. It will be most suitable when there is ready access to a good flight instructor to reduce downtime for repairs. If this is not the case, it should be recommended only after screening for "QBAN style tenacity" and some aptitude for the repair side of things.

If this is not considered I maintain the result will be unecessary frustration and an avoidably high drop-out rate.

There will also be an unecessarily high non-starter rate if we insist everyone have an instructor, myself being a case in point. :)

[Eric_N57105]

There will also be an unecessarily high non-starter rate if we insist everyone have an instructor, myself being a case in point. :)

Yes, this is just not realistic. I haven't heard anyone say that learning alone is the best way to learn. But for some of us it is the most practical.

I have tried to get into RC planes before through clubs. My son and I were attracted to RC sailplanes because a club here in the Inland Empire that sponsors national level competition flew a few blocks from our house. We went down there and asked about instruction. No problem, Joe Blow here is our instructor. Joe Blow offers to bring the club trainer next time. Hand shakes all around. Great bunch of guys. Next week we show up. The instructor couldn't make it. Next week we show up, the instructor forgot the club trainer. Next week we show up, he forgets again and lets us get some stick time on his kilobuck German sailplane. He takes it up until it is a speck in the sky and grabs the TX every time it is slightly out of shape. We gave up in disgust.

A year later I tried with another club and had an uncannily similar experience. My son decided to pass. I should have.

A few weeks ago I found an informal group nearby that is all electric. Nice bunch of guys. One of them helped set up my SS, and flew it to make sure everything was OK. They meet once a week, but it just isn't enough flight time for me. And sometimes life gets in the way of a weekend at the field. So I get more flight time alone at odd times during the week which is good, but I spent way too much time fxing the SS which is no fun.

So the answer to my problem isn't, "Get an instructor." The answer is, get an airplane that can survive the inevitable mistakes that students make. The SS is very forgiving of inflight mistakes, but it is very UNFORGIVING of sky-ground interface mistakes.

We have the technology to design and build more forgiving airplanes for students, and I see no reason why we should not be encouraged to fly them instead of being discouraged. My SS will be retired until I advance to the level where I can safely land such a fragile airplane. I'll have the Easy Star in the air next week.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[almsy]

Eric, I learned with the slow stick without outside help other than from all the good info and tips on these forums. I did buy a computer sim first though, and that helped a lot! and I would suggest sim time if you are trying to learn by yourself or even if with an instructor. There are free ones to download if you aren't already aware of that. The SS is a wonderful planes to learn on but I see you have experienced some of its drawbacks. I bought an Easy Star for my second plane, and yes, I can see where it would be a good trainer too, but IMO it is more sluggish to respond to controls when a newbie needs to get away from that tree or what ever compaired to the SS. They both have their advantages for sure. The Estar is larger and faster, but sometimes I think slow is better when learning. EStar handles wind better but after flying the SS, the ES just doesn't climb or respond as I was used to with the SS. Both are stock and I use a 7cell to power the motors.
Don't give up on the SS, it is a blast to fly as you will see. I don't think the EStar will necessarily be better, just different. I fly the Estar, but prefer the SS.
Best of luck to you, relax when flying, easy on the controls and have fun.

[Eric_N57105]

Eric, I learned with the slow stick without outside help other than from all the good info and tips on these forums. I did buy a computer sim first though, and that helped a lot! and I would suggest sim time if you are trying to learn by yourself or even if with an instructor. There are free ones to download if you aren't already aware of that. The SS is a wonderful planes to learn on but I see you have experienced some of its drawbacks. I bought an Easy Star for my second plane, and yes, I can see where it would be a good trainer too, but IMO it is more sluggish to respond to controls when a newbie needs to get away from that tree or what ever compaired to the SS. They both have their advantages for sure. The Estar is larger and faster, but sometimes I think slow is better when learning. EStar handles wind better but after flying the SS, the ES just doesn't climb or respond as I was used to with the SS. Both are stock and I use a 7cell to power the motors.
Don't give up on the SS, it is a blast to fly as you will see. I don't think the EStar will necessarily be better, just different. I fly the Estar, but prefer the SS.
Best of luck to you, relax when flying, easy on the controls and have fun.

Thanks for the comments, almsy. I have Pre-Flight and FMS. I also flew MS Flight Sim in Tower View for a couple of years. Sim time helps with orientation. But the truth is, even experienced flyers become disoriented at times. Inexperienced pilots become disoriented more easily and more often no matter how much sim time they have.

You MUST be allowed to make mistakes to learn. All I'm saying is that the SS makes you pay too heavily for even small mistakes close to the ground. It has almost ZERO survivability when the ground is concerned. At the least, you will be buying a new $3 prop that could be used to make a down payment on a gallon of gasoline for your truck.

I'm not criticizing the SS flight characteristics. As I said, I see the experienced pilots having a great time with them. I want to JOIN them, not condemn them. But I've had it with the fragility of the SS. Every less than perfect landing means a trip to the pickup to fix the plane. I don't need that.

If the Easy Star is not as good a flyer, so be it. I'm not after sterling performance at this stage. I'm after shear survivability. If I make a small mistake, I want to be able to pick up the plane, check it for damage and throw it back in the sky. This is FLIGHT TRAINING TIME, not model building time.

I'm keeping my SS for a time when I'm a better pilot. In the mean time, I'm accumulating stick time.

Thanks, again for the info.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Doc Pete]

So the answer to my problem isn't, "Get an instructor." The answer is, get an airplane that can survive the inevitable mistakes that students make. The SS is very forgiving of inflight mistakes, but it is very UNFORGIVING of sky-ground interface mistakes.
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)


NO, no, no, no. Gees........ you haven't been listening. Damm......Buy a sim for $150. You already agreed you're tired of rebuilding, and it cost's money, too.
The sim will get you flying in a week or two and pay for itself and "MORE" in time and effort.
If you "want" to learn without a sim that's fine. However, don't blame the plane for not standing up to crash after crash, for your inability to use common sense and use a sim. A plane is meant to fly, not crash.

I apologize for being blunt, but the truth needs to be said...........

[Rugar]

Eric,
It sounds like you are getting frustrated. Give me a call. I'm still sticking to my promise to get you flying, and I will get you landing without damage. We just need to get your SS dialed in. That one short flight in the wind was not enough to get adjustments made. Are you coming out Sunday?

[Bill G]

Slow Sticks don't crash, non-flyers crash Slow Sticks. Good idea on the sim Doc, but just unnecessary. Build it correctly, which is quite easy to boot, and go fly on a calm day/evening. Once again, if it doesn't make a complete beginner look like a pro, then there's something wrong. I never considered myself a highly talented pilot, especially from the beginning, but that's how it was with the Slow Stick. Don't worry about needing a flying demolition derby winning car, you won't need it if you set this plane up correctly.
If this turns out to not be the case, then it doesn't much matter which plane you buy, since you're going to crash the hell out of any of them. Really, the SS is about as easy as it gets.

[Doc Pete]

Slow Sticks don't crash, non-flyers crash Slow Sticks. Good idea on the sim Doc, but just unnecessary. Build it correctly, which is quite easy to boot, and go fly on a calm day/evening. Once again, if it doesn't make a complete beginner look like a pro, then there's something wrong. I never considered myself a highly talented pilot, especially from the beginning, but that's how it was with the Slow Stick. Don't worry about needing a flying demolition derby winning car, you won't need it if you set this plane up correctly.
If this turns out to not be the case, then it doesn't much matter which plane you buy, since you're going to crash the hell out of any of them. Really, the SS is about as easy as it gets.

Bill, the SS is easy... I agree with you 100%. Something is wrong if you keep putting it in the ground enough to hurt it. Heck, my friend put it in a tree, and flew it 10 minutes later.
I gave my friend about 5 flights help and he's been on his own ever since. Sure, he screws up landing, but it just rolls over on it's nose. Also, he screw up left/right but it's so slow you just give it the other "left"(G).

Maybe this is wake up call that this model totally setup wrong...............

And good flyers "never" get disorientated with a SS. Even if they are over 55 :D .......

[Eric_N57105]

NO, no, no, no. Gees........ you haven't been listening. Damm......Buy a sim for $150. You already agreed you're tired of rebuilding, and it cost's money, too.
The sim will get you flying in a week or two and pay for itself and "MORE" in time and effort.
If you "want" to learn without a sim that's fine. However, don't blame the plane for not standing up to crash after crash, for your inability to use common sense and use a sim. A plane is meant to fly, not crash.

I apologize for being blunt, but the truth needs to be said...........
Yes, well, you assume that I don't already have a sim. I do. I'm surprised at your confidence in a sim to replicate the real thing. Sorry, it doesn't. Any number of newbies have written about how competent they feel on the sim, but in real life admit, for them, it just isn't the same. But that's another debate for another time.

I'll take your comment about my inability to use common sense under advisement. Hopefully, you are more patient and reserved with your students. BTW, I had full-size airplane instructors scream at me and tell me how stupid I was when I was first learning to fly. Fortunately, there are fewer instructors nowadays who think that is instructive or productive. You might want to consider how your techniques are perceived.

And yes a plane is meant to fly not crash. But a plane is also built to withstand damage under its intended use. That's so in the full-size world where the Cessna 150 I trained on didn't come apart every time a student got a little behind the airplane on landing. And it SHOULD be even MORE so for RC airplanes where there is a high likelihood that new pilots are going to fly without the assistance of an instructor out of necessity or lack of common sense. The distinction is unimportant.

That's my point and the point several others have been trying to get across. The SS is NOT built to survive unless an instructor is ALWAYS on hand to save the situation. And an instructor can't always be there. Any landing less than perfect breaks something on an SS.

I have had sucessful landings. The last time I flew without an instructor, I landed 4 times without incident. Another pilot at the field was watching, but not instructing. The fifth landing was a very heavy handed on my part, but no lawn dart and it destroyed the fuselage. I'm a student. I can't do it perfect every time. I can't have an instructor ready to grab the controls every time. Mistakes will be made. I want a trainer that can deal with those mistakes. That's really not an unreasonable request. In fact, it's COMMON SENSE. The SS as a trainer is not common sense. And that is not a slight against the SS as an airplane.

Nice chatting with you, Doc. But sometimes an instructor and student just don't click. It happens. No offense, and no disrespect, but your methods don't fit my needs.

Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

[firemanbill]

Any landing less than perfect breaks something on an SS.

I agree with everything you said but that!

I have dorked my SS into the ground more times than I can count and the worse I ever did was break the vertical stab but that was because I pulled up instead of down while inverted from about 10' at full throttle with a brushless motor! I broke a few props but with the SS being one of my first planes and learning without an instructor I'd have to say it's a pretty dang tough bird!

I did have to replace my fuse but that was because I stepped on it!

Bill

[Eric_N57105]

Eric,
It sounds like you are getting frustrated. Give me a call. I'm still sticking to my promise to get you flying, and I will get you landing without damage. We just need to get your SS dialed in. That one short flight in the wind was not enough to get adjustments made. Are you coming out Sunday?

I'm not frustrated with my inability to fly. I'm frustrated with the inability of the SS to tolerate my mistakes, even simple ones. If you remember, that first flight was short because the simple act of moving the pushrod to a different hole caused a tear in the rudder and somehow the antenna wire got pulled out of the receiver. THAT's my frustration. None of that would have happened with a more substantial trainer with a fuselage instead of a stick.

I'm not blaming my inability to fly on the SS. I probably won't fly any better with another airplane. But there are other airplanes that don't require repair after every mistake. After hours of reading Easy Star threads by newbies and talking to several owners, I think it will suit my needs better.

I'm not sure I'll make it this Sunday as I'm packing my mom's house to get ready for the movers coming Tuesday. I sincerely appreciate your help, but if I had to depend on infrequent Sunday mornings, I'd never get any stick time. Family comes first, flying fits in where ever I can make the time.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Doc Pete]

Yes, well, you assume that I don't already have a sim. I do. I'm surprised at your confidence in a sim to replicate the real thing. Sorry, it doesn't. Any number of newbies have written about how competent they feel on the sim, but in real life admit, for them, it just isn't the same. But that's another debate for another time.

Sorry, but if you can competently fly a sim, you won't crash a SS. Now, if you can't fly the sim, that's another story....................

[Rugar]

I'm not frustrated with my inability to fly. I'm frustrated with the inability of the SS to tolerate my mistakes, even simple ones. If you remember, that first flight was short because the simple act of moving the pushrod to a different hole caused a tear in the rudder and somehow the antenna wire got pulled out of the receiver. THAT's my frustration. None of that would have happened with a more substantial trainer with a fuselage instead of a stick.

I'm not blaming my inability to fly on the SS. I probably won't fly any better with another airplane. But there are other airplanes that don't require repair after every mistake. After hours of reading Easy Star threads by newbies and talking to several owners, I think it will suit my needs better.

I'm not sure I'll make it this Sunday as I'm packing my mom's house to get ready for the movers coming Tuesday. I sincerely appreciate your help, but if I had to depend on infrequent Sunday mornings, I'd never get any stick time. Family comes first, flying fits in where ever I can make the time.

Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

I can make it out during the week also. Just give me a call a day ahead of time so I can make plans to meet you out there.

[Doc Pete]

. If you remember, that first flight was short because the simple act of moving the pushrod to a different hole caused a tear in the rudder and somehow the antenna wire got pulled out of the receiver. THAT's my frustration. None of that would have happened with a more substantial trainer with a fuselage instead of a stick.



Sorry Eric, I now understand who I'm dealing with. Good luck flying...........

[qban_flyer]

My $.02 worth. :)

There is no such thing as indestructible trainer. :o

[Bill G]

Heck, my friend put it in a tree, and flew it 10 minutes later.
:D .......

I put mine in a tree, and it was hanging from the tail. Gunned it, and it started to pull out of the tree. When it broke loose, I used full up elevator, leveled out a few feet off the ground, and kept flying.:eek:

[Bill G]

That's my point and the point several others have been trying to get across. The SS is NOT built to survive unless an instructor is ALWAYS on hand to save the situation. And an instructor can't always be there. Any landing less than perfect breaks something on an SS.
Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

I'm just going to have to call that a false statement since I had virtually noc experience whatsoever, may as well call it none, which I can back up (Wattage Corsair says it all), and I found it so EasY to fly that I was more worried about myself slipping and falling on the grass, than crashing it.

I think in some special cases that maybe the simulator should be the only thing ever flown, to be happy. Its kindof like the Cuyote, Daffy Duck, and Yosemite Sam. They get beat up to all hell, get up 1 second later, and act like nothing happened.

[Eric_N57105]

Sorry Eric, I now understand who I'm dealing with. Good luck flying...........

That's great, Doc. It would be a shame if we couldn't finally come to an understanding about one another after all that.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Twmaster]

Eric,

Not to beat to awful much on this chestnut but am I missing something here? I taught myself to fly on the SS and still have the original wing, fuselage stick, elevator and most of the plastic bits intact.

I've replaced the rudder. I've also replaced the motor on it a couple of times along with the plastic front wing mount.

I've run it into curbs on landing, dead on motor hits into light poles (ok just once!) and made too many to recount very -ugly- landings that would have positively killed a wood kit trainer. As Qban said there is no such thing as indestructible.

I went through a pile of props and a couple of gearboxes too.

So I cannot help but wonder what is wrong with your SS.

Guys like Bill, Gerald, Pete and others really do want to see you succeed and enjoy this terrific hobby. Honestly, they do! Just be prepared for the bumps along the learning curve.

Also this point needs to be made. You may only get to come out and fly once a month or so they way our hectic lives seem to run. Family and weather will conspire against your fun time also. Get used to that.

Make some time. Call Rugar, and lighten up a tad. 'K?

Best of luck.

[Eric_N57105]

My $.02 worth. :)

There is no such thing as indestructible trainer. :o

No question about that and I don't expect it. It is interesting that virtually every Slow Stick I have seen is beat to rat $@#!. The fuse is shorter because 1" at a time has to be sawed off. The wings are clipped. There are struts glued on the vertical fin. One wonders how this could happen so much with an airplane that is so tough.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I hope in the near future to get back to the SS because it looks like fun and a lot of guys are having fun. But it obviously isn't for me. I guess nobody likes a stranger telling them their baby is ugly. heh heh heh.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Twmaster]

No question about that and I don't expect it. It is interesting that virtually every Slow Stick I have seen is beat to rat $@#!. The fuse is shorter because 1" at a time has to be sawed off. The wings are clipped. There are struts glued on the vertical fin. One wonders how this could happen so much with an airplane that is so tough.

As I said in a previous reply I would have killed more than a couple of more 'durable' trainer airplanes. Yup lots of ugly ratty SS's out there flying. Part of the attraction is ease of repair. Most SS crashes (note I said 'most') are field repairable with glue and tape. Oft you can have the SS repaired and flying in shorter time than it would take to sweep up all the bits from a similar crash in a wood trainer.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I hope in the near future to get back to the SS because it looks like fun and a lot of guys are having fun. But it obviously isn't for me. I guess nobody likes a stranger telling them their baby is ugly. heh heh heh.

But my baby -is- ugly! :)

Prejudice a an awful thing. Are you really sure the SS is not for you? Really?

[Doc Pete]

Eric,


Guys like Bill, Gerald, Pete and others really do want to see you succeed and enjoy this terrific hobby. Honestly, they do! Just be prepared for the bumps along the learning curve.


Nice of you to notice..............
Well said. If we didn't care we wouldn't bother to post. Ya know, we do have better things to do....FLY!!;)

[firemanbill]

It is interesting that virtually every Slow Stick I have seen is beat to rat $@#!. The fuse is shorter because 1" at a time has to be sawed off. The wings are clipped. There are struts glued on the vertical fin. One wonders how this could happen so much with an airplane that is so tough.

www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

It does make you wonder... must be some really cheapo folks out there cause a replacement fuse is 4 bucks with tax, wings 8 bucks, tail feathers 5 bucks. I agree too that my SS is ugly, has been since day 1:D It just ain't a pretty plane and never will be but... It can be kept intact and whole for minimal money!

The big key to what is being said is that there is so many of them out there. I think there is 3 reasons for that. They are tough. they are repairable cheply, and they are FUN TO OWN AND FLY!

Keep at it and soon you'll be having fun with it as well...

[Idaho]

Good reminder about good intentions on the part of folks posting here. There are bound to be differing perspectives cause we're all unique individuals.

There's a couple things said here that are so far from my unique experience that I'm going to comment, not to challenge the perspective of the person posting but for the sake of newbs that might be somewhat like myself.



...I had virtually noc experience whatsoever, may as well call it none, which I can back up (Wattage Corsair says it all), and I found it so EasY to fly that I was more worried about myself slipping and falling on the grass, than crashing it.
Bill must be well above average as a new flyer. My experience is more like Eric's. To expect all new flyers to have Bill's experience is very unrealistic.

Sorry, but if you can competently fly a sim, you won't crash a SS.

Doc, I respect your experience but.... I flew the FMS sim to death before trying the real thing. I could easily land every model that came with the program. If this means I'm a slow learner so be it. I think there's more like me out there. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up playing video games. I dunno. :)

I broke a few props but with the SS being one of my first planes and learning without an instructor I'd have to say it's a pretty dang tough bird!
I've killed two motors, numerous props, rebuilt the tail three times, and bent the fuse badly twice. My Firebird XL was tortured far more than my SS and sustained minimal damage. It has ALL the original parts intact (I quit flying it when the electronics went glitchy).

The SS tail section is fragile and having the prop out front is a significant drawback for a beginner. There is a difference between durability and repairability.

Here's an important point. I'm teaching myself, and flying off my paved driveway with a lot of trees all around. Far from ideal but that's how it is. Call me stupid or a sucker for punishment if you like, but I'm making real progress and having a lot of fun. I bet there's a lot of folks doing the same thing. We can't all get out to good flying fields with an instructor.

Sooooo.... again the perspective will vary and mine is this:

No doubt the SS can be a very good beginner plane. It will be most suitable when there is ready access to a good flight instructor to reduce downtime for repairs. If this is not the case, it should be recommended only after screening for "QBAN style tenacity" and some aptitude for the repair side of things.

If this is not considered I maintain the result will be unecessary frustration and an avoidably high drop-out rate.

There will also be an unecessarily high non-starter rate if we insist everyone have an instructor, myself being a case in point. :)


Some would do better with something really crash resistant like the Firebird XL but with 3 channel control (don't do a two channel!)

Eric, I'm interested to hear how it goes with the Estar. Keep going, it gets better. I don't crash the SS (much) now.

Soon I'll be trying out an E-Starter as a transition to a MUS.

[Eric_N57105]

The SS tail section is fragile and having the prop out front is a significant drawback for a beginner. There is a difference between durability and repairability.

Here's an important point. I'm teaching myself, and flying off my paved driveway with a lot of trees all around. Far from ideal but that's how it is. Call me stupid or a sucker for punishment if you like, but I'm making real progress and having a lot of fun. I bet there's a lot of folks doing the same thing. We can't all get out to good flying fields with an instructor.


Eric, I'm interested to hear how it goes with the Estar. Keep going, it gets better. I don't crash the SS (much) now.

Soon I'll be trying out an E-Starter as a transition to a MUS.
A very rational assessment, Arlie.

Your first boldface quote is a good one to clarify. That was my experience. The SS lacks durability for the newbie, but it is very repairable. My reason for being on the flying field is to learn to fly. Repairs...not so much.

And my frustration might have become overstated in the ensuing "discussion". I am frustrated with the fragile nature of the SS, but I am NOT frustrated with my flying. Like you, though behind you in experience, I am slowly learning and I am having fun. In 5 days on the flying field alone, I managed to go through two TP 3S 2100s each day, the weight equivalent in glue and 2 or 3 props.

I didn't enjoy the down time, but I thoroughly enjoyed the flight time. Even the crashes were very instructive as I have gone over them many times in my head to ensure I know the cause. I even reproduced a couple on the sim.

I was a natural pilot in full size (private pilot single engine land and commercial pilot hot air and gas balloon), but I am CLEARLY not a natural flying from outside the cockpit!!! I'm very respectful and in awe of those I have seen at the local field and fields in the past. So it may take me awhile, but I'll get there. I just want to find ways to spend more time in the air.

The other important point you and someone else made was that we all have our own perspective and it is valid for us. My experience is my experience and it isn't helpful to tell me it's wrong.

Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

[Eric_N57105]

It does make you wonder... must be some really cheapo folks out there cause a replacement fuse is 4 bucks with tax, wings 8 bucks, tail feathers 5 bucks. I agree too that my SS is ugly, has been since day 1:D It just ain't a pretty plane and never will be but... It can be kept intact and whole for minimal money!

The big key to what is being said is that there is so many of them out there. I think there is 3 reasons for that. They are tough. they are repairable cheply, and they are FUN TO OWN AND FLY!

Keep at it and soon you'll be having fun with it as well...

Thanks, firemanbill. I didn't mean the SS was ugly in a BAD way. heh heh heh. I just meant people react badly to being TOLD their baby is ugly. (They have to already know, don't they?).

I really do see the appeal of the SS as an airplane. I'm just not good enough yet to fly it safely. I'm taking a detour to more durable planes, but have no plans of getting rid of the SS.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Eric_N57105]

As I said in a previous reply I would have killed more than a couple of more 'durable' trainer airplanes. Yup lots of ugly ratty SS's out there flying. Part of the attraction is ease of repair. Most SS crashes (note I said 'most') are field repairable with glue and tape. Oft you can have the SS repaired and flying in shorter time than it would take to sweep up all the bits from a similar crash in a wood trainer.

Can't argue with that. I'm certainly not considering any wood trainers. I want lots of bendy, bouncing foam protecting an undestructible prop. Maybe something between ducted fan powered packing material and an SS, but more towards the packing material end of the spectrum.

But my baby -is- ugly! :)

Prejudice is an awful thing. Are you really sure the SS is not for you? Really?

Not now, but definitely some time in the future when I don't break things as much.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Eric_N57105]

I usually don't post to a new group until I have lurked for a time, learned the players and know the local rules. I made an exception in this thread because it was about newbies flying the SS and I'm a newbie learning to fly on an SS.

I forgot that there are two things you don't talk about on a forum of this type, politics and religion. I, apparently, did both by commenting on my perceived shortcomings of the Slow Stick.

My sincere apologies to the group for taking up so much time and space on my experience. But I hope some things have come out of it that will give comfort to other newbies who are frustrated with their progress with the SS. And I hope others considering one or being advised to get one find enough information in all the posts generated to make up their own mind given their own situation.

I'll be back on the field next week...hopefully a lot of flying, and some constructive crashing.

Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

[qban_flyer]

Thanks, firemanbill. I didn't mean the SS was ugly in a BAD way. heh heh heh. I just meant people react badly to being TOLD their baby is ugly. (They have to already know, don't they?).

I really do see the appeal of the SS as an airplane. I'm just not good enough yet to fly it safely. I'm taking a detour to more durable planes, but have no plans of getting rid of the SS.

Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)
No need to apologize.

The grand daddy of the Slow Stick, the Ugly Stick (1966) by Phil Kraft was, is and will always be an Ugly Stick. All variations of Stick type planes trace their lineage back to Phil's design of May 1966. :)

Many versions have been "made" of this particular model. From the little GWS Pico F Stick to the Bud Nosen 8' wingspan Quadra powered monter of the '70s to today's myriad of versions all are Ugly Sticks. :D

A photo of Das Ugly Stick .40 is attached below. The original had "scalloped" aileron trailing edges. :)

Those who may feel offended by the name given the model, have no clue of its background, how it came into being or its lineage. The Ugly Sticks are supposed to be functional, not pretty. :o

[Doc Pete]

Doc, I respect your experience but.... I flew the FMS sim to death before trying the real thing. I could easily land every model that came with the program. If this means I'm a slow learner so be it. I think there's more like me out there. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up playing video games. I dunno. :)


At 56, I didn't have video games, either. However, if a "winky dink" screen constitutes a video game, then I'm wrong;).

And, I can concede that if a model is improperly setup, all the sim time in the world won't help a newbie. Sadly, without an instructor (a good one... which may be hard to find:D ), I can also see a newbie playing lawn dart, for a long time.
So.......... for me, I said, I ain't gonna do this and "searched out" a few fields and "lucked" into a super instructor............


Let me say now, which I should have in the first place........ I could have been lost without a good instructor, which is why I try so hard to be overly helpful to all you guy's.
If I can answer any general flying questions about gliders, copters, or planes, please feel free to email me.
thanks,
Pete

[firemanbill]

Eric,

No need to apologize Bud!:D We've all been there man with the frustration there was a few days where I thought I had really picked up just another bad habit:(

Then there is one good flight that makes you want to do it again. Kind of like golf, you can whack in the water and the woods all day long but one really nice drive is the one you remember, and that's the one that makes you come back, again and again.

If you are not comfortable with this plane for now, by all means shelf it until you are! get another type and get back in the air.

The key thing to this in my mind is patience. Like I said before, it will come

[Idaho]

At 56, I didn't have video games, either. However, if a "winky dink" screen constitutes a video game, then I'm wrong;).

And, I can concede that if a model is improperly setup, all the sim time in the world won't help a newbie. Sadly, without an instructor (a good one... which may be hard to find:D ), I can also see a newbie playing lawn dart, for a long time.

Ya, I knew you aren't from the nintendo/xbox/whatever generation but a lot of new pilots are and I think they're quicker to catch on. Even the military says their new pilots benefit from this. I was very lucky to get some time on a military F18 sim - an actual F18 front section in a globe that functioned as a surround screen. There were so many functions on so many buttons on the stick it was mind boggling and did remind me of the nintendo type controllers.

The FMS sim helped me a great deal. You're right, getting the plane set up right can be a big issue for someone teaching themself. It took a while to do the obvious - get some altitude and then fuss with the trim. It was also not obvious initially what good trim is. I'm better but still working on that one. You might say I've had an ongoing crash course.:D

I do very much appreciate the help from the experienced flyers here. It's the next best thing to an intructor.

My E-starter is almost done. I'm very interested to see how much of what I've learned will transfer over.

[qban_flyer]

Ya, I knew you aren't from the nintendo/xbox/whatever generation but a lot of new pilots are and I think they're quicker to catch on. Even the military says their new pilots benefit from this. I was very lucky to get some time on a military F18 sim - an actual F18 front section in a globe that functioned as a surround screen. There were so many functions on so many buttons on the stick it was mind boggling and did remind me of the nintendo type controllers.

The FMS sim helped me a great deal. You're right, getting the plane set up right can be a big issue for someone teaching themself. It took a while to do the obvious - get some altitude and then fuss with the trim. It was also not obvious initially what good trim is. I'm better but still working on that one. You might say I've had an ongoing crash course.:D

I do very much appreciate the help from the experienced flyers here. It's the next best thing to an intructor.

My E-starter is almost done. I'm very interested to see how much of what I've learned will transfer over.
Keep us posted. :)

When I got into modeling there were only three TV channels available and it was B/W, so the chances of a SIM, XBOX or what-have-you were non-existent. We had to learn everything by the seats of our pants, and that's exactly what we did. :o

[Idaho]

We had to learn everything by the seats of our pants, and that's exactly what we did. :o __________________
Qban Flyer

I call the new version "The GWS Slow Stink."
Learning by the seat of the pants does more than create butt callouses, it builds character.;)

OK I'm curious why this one is a slow stink.:)

[qban_flyer]

Learning by the seat of the pants does more than create butt callouses, it builds character.;)

OK I'm curious why this one is a slow stink.:)Whereas before we had a single piece, rather rigid boom GWS has seen fit fit to "provide" us with a precut boom. They have done so in order to save themselves money in shipping charges as well as shipping materials (a smaller box). :mad:

Having the boom "joined" ahead of the tail wheel bracket with a plastic coupler makes a fragile model (from the beginners point of view) more so, not to mention the nightmarish visions of trying to keep everything properly and rigidly aligned (boom wise). Pancake the new "improved" version three or four times and the plastic "joiner" will snap. :mad:

They have managed to ruin what up until now was a reasonably priced, rigid and good flying machine. The old version is no more, so I can no longer recommend it. :mad:

[Idaho]

I noticed a "Mr. Lin" representing GWS on the RCU groups forum, popping up here and there when good things were being said about their products.
I wouldn't be surprised if they sniff around here too. If he's smart he'll pick up on what you're saying and take it seriously.
Not good for them to lose the best Slow Stick advocate ever! :)

I like the old saying "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT".

[qban_flyer]

I noticed a "Mr. Lin" representing GWS on the RCU groups forum, popping up here and there when good things were being said about their products.
I wouldn't be surprised if they sniff around here too. If he's smart he'll pick up on what you're saying and take it seriously.
Not good for them to lose the best Slow Stick advocate ever! :)

I like the old saying "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT".

That is Mr. GWS himself.

In this case, it is shipped already "broke"! :eek:

They lost me for good. I ain't coming back to them regardless of what they do. I know, I know, some will call me "peculiar", but I have been called worse, besides it is my choice to be that way. :(

[gdhampton]

The last Stick I bought had a full length boom. You were given the option to cut it and use the supplied joiner, which I did not do. Has this been changed recently?

Thanks!

[Doc Pete]

Keep us posted. :)

When I got into modeling there were only three TV channels available and it was B/W

And you were so poor you couldn't even afford legs to walk to school...... Yeah, yeah.... tell us more.......:D :D :D :D

Remember the giant needle for those polio boosters..:eek:

[Eric_N57105]

Whereas before we had a single piece, rather rigid boom GWS has seen fit fit to "provide" us with a precut boom. They have done so in order to save themselves money in shipping charges as well as shipping materials (a smaller box). :mad:

Having the boom "joined" ahead of the tail wheel bracket with a plastic coupler makes a fragile model (from the beginners point of view) more so, not to mention the nightmarish visions of trying to keep everything properly and rigidly aligned (boom wise). Pancake the new "improved" version three or four times and the plastic "joiner" will snap. :mad:

They have managed to ruin what up until now was a reasonably priced, rigid and good flying machine. The old version is no more, so I can no longer recommend it. :mad:

Well, it's even more peculiar than that, Qban. The fuse comes as a solid piece of aluminum so they aren't doing anything to shorten the box. Under the heading "Disassembled Tail Set" the instructions (page 5) have you CUT the fuselage into two pieces with a hacksaw and REJOIN them with the plastic sleeve and two tiny screw.

Fortunately, I was told by the local SS folks to disregard that and also to insert a balsa stick into the fuse to give it additional strength.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[qban_flyer]

Something is rather amiss here. :eek:

The GWS build thread of the "new and improved" Slow Stick linked below shows the opposite. The thread is entitled The New GWS SLOW STICK :o

According to the builder, the boom (medal (sic) frame) comes in two (2) sections not one. Line #5 of the first post. :confused:

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7237

PS: Photo of the pre-cut boom is also shown on that post. Manual is also different. :mad:

[qban_flyer]

And you were so poor you couldn't even afford legs to walk to school...... Yeah, yeah.... tell us more.......:D :D :D :D

Remember the giant needle for those polio boosters..:eek:It had to be that large so that it could reach the virus. :o

[Eric_N57105]

Something is rather amiss here. :eek:

The GWS build thread of the "new and improved" Slow Stick linked below shows the opposite. The thread is entitled The New GWS SLOW STICK :o

According to the builder, the boom (medal (sic) frame) comes in two (2) sections not one. Line #5 of the first post. :confused:

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7237

PS: Photo of the pre-cut boom is also shown on that post. Manual is also different. :mad:

Well, apparently, there are a lot of the one-piece boom models still in the pipeline. I bought mine from the local Hobby People less than 3 weeks ago and it is the one-piece.

I can't see any advantage at all of removing the tail. All I see is a giant pain for the beginner trying to get it back together without disturbing or breaking anything.

Future purchasers aren't going to have a choice. It will be interesting to see how well the plastic sleeve holds up.

Interesting that the thicker tailfeathers might make the SS a little less fragile, but the 2-piece boom will make it more fragile.

It would be interesting to find some 10mm OD carbon fiber square tubing and just junk the stock boom altogether. But then it would be so strong, the motor would probably get crunched instead of the front of the fuse. Hobby Lobby has an 8mm x 1000m square CF tube for less than 10 bucks that might be interesting to play with...someday.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Eric_N57105]

Something is rather amiss here. :eek:

The GWS build thread of the "new and improved" Slow Stick linked below shows the opposite. The thread is entitled The New GWS SLOW STICK :o

According to the builder, the boom (medal (sic) frame) comes in two (2) sections not one. Line #5 of the first post. :confused:

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7237

PS: Photo of the pre-cut boom is also shown on that post. Manual is also different. :mad:

Well, apparently, there are a lot of the one-piece boom models still in the pipeline. I bought mine from the local Hobby People less than 3 weeks ago and it is the one-piece.

I can't see any advantage at all of removing the tail. All I see is a giant pain for the beginner trying to get it back together without disturbing or breaking anything.

Future purchasers aren't going to have a choice. It will be interesting to see how well the plastic sleeve holds up.

Interesting that the thicker tailfeathers might make the SS a little less fragile, but the 2-piece boom will make it more fragile.

It would be interesting to find some 10mm OD carbon fiber square tubing and just junk the stock boom altogether. But then it would be so strong, the motor would probably get crunched instead of the front of the fuse. Hobby Lobby has an 8mm x 1000m square CF tube for less than 10 bucks that might be interesting to play with...someday.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[qban_flyer]

Well, apparently, there are a lot of the one-piece boom models still in the pipeline. I bought mine from the local Hobby People less than 3 weeks ago and it is the one-piece.

I can't see any advantage at all of removing the tail. All I see is a giant pain for the beginner trying to get it back together without disturbing or breaking anything.

Future purchasers aren't going to have a choice. It will be interesting to see how well the plastic sleeve holds up.

Interesting that the thicker tailfeathers might make the SS a little less fragile, but the 2-piece boom will make it more fragile.

It would be interesting to find some 10mm OD carbon fiber square tubing and just junk the stock boom altogether. But then it would be so strong, the motor would probably get crunched instead of the front of the fuse. Hobby Lobby has an 8mm x 1000m square CF tube for less than 10 bucks that might be interesting to play with...someday.

Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)I have no clue who the linked people below are. They call themselves GWS-Expert though I have no clues if they are related to GWS or not.

They have a once piece, solid boom for the Slow Stick for $3.50, if they continue to provide this part, then there is hope to salvage the model's reputation as a durable and repairable trainer. :o

http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_40&products_id=563

[Eric_N57105]

Let me preface this by saying again, I'm not against the Slow Stick as an airplane. I'm looking forward to the day when I am confident flying it without damage.

I shelved the SS for now so I could continue flight training with an aircraft more suitable for me flying alone during the week. I flew the Easy Star today for the first time this morning virtually right out of the box. Completely stock everything to give me a baseline for evaluating all the mods out there.

The first hand launch was needlessly hair-raising because I'm left-handed, had the throttle too far advanced and launched it a bit too enthusiastically. The Easy Star is fairly indestructible, but my pickup is not. It was close, but I wrestled it into the air without incident. Six batteries later, I landed for the last time for the day. Two batteries were used for a solid string of touch and goes. Not a single crash. No damage. Slight scuffing of the bottom tape from the dirt "runway".

The only incident worth mentioning was landing about 60 yds away in the weeds when a battery gave up...I forgot to use my timer. Two coyotes came out of hiding at the base of a lone pepper tree and began warily circling the ES hoping for a meal. I walked out to the plane and they were torn between grabbing a bite and running from me. They trotted off as I approached, but kept an eye on me. Elapor would have been a disappointing meal. 30 minutes later they would have been hungry again.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I'm looking forward to playing with the SS again when I have more experience. It will be a treat to be able to bring both birds out. Damage to one won't ruin my whole day of flying again.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[qban_flyer]

Eric,

We all have to go with what we feel most comfortable with. What is good for most or some, might not be so for me or you. It's the very reason there are so many successful trainers avalable.

I love both my slow Stick and Easy Star. Great flying model both, yet different in so many ways.

Glad to hear you are getting along fine with the Easy Star. :)

[Bill G]

Under the heading "Disassembled Tail Set" the instructions (page 5) have you CUT the fuselage into two pieces with a hacksaw and REJOIN them with the plastic sleeve and two tiny screw.

Fortunately, I was told by the local SS folks to disregard that and also to insert a balsa stick into the fuse to give it additional strength.
Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

I didn't do it either. I basically looked at the instructions, saw no purpose for it, and asked myself the question, "Now what the hell would I want to do that for?" :eek:

[Idaho]

I'm very curious to hear more about your experience flying the Easystar, especially crash resistance, and flight characteristics. Sounds like it's easy to control and land. I think it's OK to do a little of that on this thread given it's an alternative/comparison to the SS.

[Bill G]

These threads have a way of turning into "What's the best vehicle to use in a Smash-up Derby, if you want to win.
Well actually its something like a 70's GM full size wagon. Problem is they don't fly too well.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/buttons/newthread.gif (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7) SLOW STICK VS. EASYSTAR

Actually, there's probably about 5 of these threads running. Pull one back out of the archives of war and get it going again.

(Now c'mon guys, could I have stated it all any better than that, or what?)

[Eric_N57105]

I'm very curious to hear more about your experience flying the Easystar, especially crash resistance, and flight characteristics. Sounds like it's easy to control and land. I think it's OK to do a little of that on this thread given it's an alternative/comparison to the SS.

Hi Arlie,

I'll make it brief (for me), and address specifically "Is the SS for a newbie?", not is the Easy Star or SS a better plane. Here are my impressions just from yesterday morning as I jotted them in my notebook in no particular order.

1. ES is more stable. It is easier to see what my inputs do on a stable plane vs one that is dancing around, particularly in a slight variable wind. SS drops a wing or noses up at every puff. However, ES seems to be very sensitive to CG and tends to porpoise if CG is too far one way or the other. This can magnify a newbie's tendency to overcontrol. Newbies without an instructor may not know what to do to correct the problem and think it is them.

2. Related to that, ES has better wind penetration, probably because it's heavier and a little faster. Newbies that fly alone will have an easier time if they misjudge wind strength and fly when maybe they shouldn't.

3. The Easy Star is tough as a beach ball. The SS is a very forgiving flyer, but it is not as forgiving in landing. It is almost impossible to break an ES prop. SS prop breakage is a considerable operating expense for a rank newbie. I easily spent the difference in kit prices on SS props.

4. ES seems to have a more distinctive shape from all angles. I had less trouble staying oriented.

5. The SS is a floater on landings. I had a lot more instances where the SS just seemed to hover heading into the wind on final. With that and the frequent wing dips, I had a hard time keeping it lined up with the "runway". The ES wind penetration made it easier to keep it tracking down the runway, but it is hard to scrub excess altitude. Lots of times, I had to go around because it just didn't want to come down. That led to my running out of battery and landing out in the weeds.

None of these are shortcomings of the SS. They are "features" as MS might say, or characteristics of the airplane. A newbie without an instructor might have a difficult time recognizing and dealing with some of these characteristics and crash where even a more advanced novice pilot would be able to cope.

The ES was far more predictable in behavior to my inexperienced eye so I didn't find myself behind the airplane, i.e. constantly reacting after the fact instead of acting. I could stay with it and sometimes be out ahead of it where a pilot should be. Frankly, I think I'm going to be going back to the SS very soon.

Ok, bottom line.

Pilot A enlists an instructor on his SS.

Pilot B goes it alone with an ES.

By the time Pilot A is ready to go it alone without his instructor, Pilot B is ready to fly an SS alone.

The ES does not substitute for an instructor, but in the end, the two pilots progress to the same point. ESPECIALLY, if Pilot B takes advantage of the incredible talent available on these forums.

I'll post any further observations in Easy Star vs Slow Stick. For now, Gone Flyin'.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Bill G]

Hi Arlie,
Ok, bottom line.

Pilot A enlists an instructor on his SS.

Pilot B goes it alone with an ES.
Eric


On the ad he dosen't go it alone. He's got his son there with him, looking as if they're both staring up at someone's Slow Stick flying around.:D

Considering the Pilot A scenario:
I guess I just don't exist, and am a figment of my imagination. Wait, I would have to be a figment of someone else's imagination in that case.

Reminds me of the part where Foghorn Leghorn is laughing at the boy looking for him in the wrong place, BUT HE FINDS HIM THERE ANYWAYS.
Foghorn says, "I think I just found myself?":confused:

There's always this option: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/buttons/newthread.gif (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=7)
(Not meaning for a new thread about Foghorn Leghorn)

[qban_flyer]

I didn't do it either. I basically looked at the instructions, saw no purpose for it, and asked myself the question, "Now what the hell would I want to do that for?" :eek:Same here. The new version buyers won't have a choice but to go through that weak tail nightmare. There are some here that see me as a Slow Stick (new version) basher! The ignorance some exhibit never ceases to amaze me. :eek:

[Eric_N57105]

Considering the Pilot A scenario:[/LEFT]
I guess I just don't exist, and am a figment of my imagination. Wait, I would have to be a figment of someone else's imagination in that case.



I wasn't trying to be all inclusive. There is a third scenario, I suppose. Pilot C goes it alone with an SS. I think he will eventually get there, But many give up in frustration or take longer than A or B.

I'm not recommending that anyone go it alone with an SS, ES or anything else. You will get there faster with an instructor IF, IF, you can fly regularly with that instructor. But instructors are people with their own lives and you can't always count on seeing them every week and once a week, in my opinion, is not often enough to reinforce what you learned last session AND learn something new in the current session.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Bill G]

I wasn't trying to be all inclusive. There is a third scenario, I suppose. Pilot C goes it alone with an SS. I think he will eventually get there, But many give up in frustration or take longer than A or B.
Eric
www.ke6us.com (http://www.ke6us.com)

You're taking this far too seriously, but if that's the direction, then you still missed a category, and I still don't exist.:eek:

A few years back, I had NO experience, thanks to Wattage. Best (flight?) was with a Maxx 4011 cobalt in their Corsair. I thought that maybe I just needed more power. 100 ft straight up, 1 pure luck save, a couple wild random manouevers, and the usual result. I don't count that experience as experience. After that, I got a Slow Stick, and probably flew it as well the first time, as the last time. Its still fine. I gave it to the club.

I touched base on this before and it seemed to touch off a war, but here it goes:
First, I'm no great pilot, so this is not an aroogant statement coming from the likeness of a highly skilled guy like Somenzini, Hyde, etc. If I can get it easily on this plane, then others can. If they can't, then there are other things still left in life to enjoy.

The analogy I used before was that I really wanted to play football. Turns out that I sucked. Now here's the part that doesn't go over well: Apparantly the same football scenario exists with some, in the area of rc flight. What I've found is that the previous statement is a politically incorrect statement around here, and fires the hell out of some individuals. Everyone is supposed to become an expert. Heck, I'm not that, but for the purpose of discussion, if it doesn't happen, then its THE PLANE'S FAULT, THE TRAINER'S FAULT, or maybe even that of someone here in the forums. If I had taken that metality, I'd probably be getting out just about now, after blowing away the whole football team and the coach.

There's also merit in "going it alone". Its like the college students who somehow make it, while partied up all the time. "If you can learn it like that, then you should learn it real good!":eek:

[almsy]

Eric, great description of the SS and Ez* difference. I fly both and have always tried to explain the difference to someone and couldn't have done it better than how you did. Glad to see you are having success now - fly on!

[qban_flyer]

There's also merit in "going it alone". Its like the college students who somehow make it, while partied up all the time. "If you can learn it like that, then you should learn it real good!":eek:I am a self taught RC flyer. It took me 9 planes before I could keep on in the air without battering it to smitherens.

Did I give up after number 8? Nope, I just kept at it. It depends on the individual's power to persevere. If one wishes to achieve something, one will do so.

Both the Slow Stick and the Easy Star (I refuse to call the Slow Stick an SS as some may get offended) are good models to learn on. I have seen many an Easy Star get demolished on its maiden, just as I have seen the Slow Stick go through the same fate.

A flight instructor is needed with both. Those who attempt to learn on their own will go through several crashes before they can fly a model fairly proficiently. Seen it happen many times.

[Eric_N57105]

You're taking this far too seriously, but if that's the direction, then you still missed a category, and I still don't exist.:eek:

It's a hobby. I made some observations about one aspect of a hobby. I like to do hobbies well. I don't take them seriously. That's what makes them hobbies.

Eric
KE6US

[Bill G]

I am a self taught RC flyer. It took me 9 planes before I could keep on in the air without battering it to smitherens.

Did I give up after number 8? Nope, I just kept at it. It depends on the individual's power to persevere. If one wishes to achieve something, one will do so.


Wasn't my Slow Stick experience, but that said, it would probably be better if many went through your experience. People don't want to work for anything anymore. I assume you did it in the days before the definition of a good trainer was one that "could fly itself with a mind of its own, and land itself if necessary". Expectations these days are ridiculous.

I guess I look at it from a different perspective. Both planes are about as ugly as a botched gender change, but the Slow Stick has character. The Easystar is just ugly.

[Idaho]

Eric, I also think you did a nice job on the comparison. Very useful information to those considering the alternatives.

As I see it, each person here has something of value to offer. We won't agree on everything and that's not a bad thing. We're not here to obtain some official final word on anything.

[qban_flyer]

Wasn't my Slow Stick experience, but that said, it would probably be better if many went through your experience. People don't want to work for anything anymore. I assume you did it in the days before the definition of a good trainer was one that "could fly itself with a mind of its own, and land itself if necessary". Expectations these days are ridiculous.
I guess I look at it from a different perspective. Both planes are about as ugly as a botched gender change, but the Slow Stick has character. The Easystar is just ugly.


It wasn't the fact that the trainers available were not as good as today's. I some respects they were better as most of them were converted free flight models. The radios were another matter altogether. Sometimes they would go ahead and behave as if they had a mind of their own. :o

I agree 100%. :o

Again, I agree 100%. :)

[Eric_N57105]

Eric, I also think you did a nice job on the comparison. Very useful information to those considering the alternatives.

As I see it, each person here has something of value to offer. We won't agree on everything and that's not a bad thing. We're not here to obtain some official final word on anything.

Exactly, right. Each of us comes from other fields and with different experiences. By posting our experiences and observations, everyone can draw from that and do with it as they please.

I'm so high right now, I don't think I'll be coming down for a couple days. This morning, I took the ES out to the field. Normally I get about 10 minutes on my little 8-cell 650 mah batteries and stock motor. The first one went nearly 40 minutes. Early on I caught a thermal and circled the field power off with a red-tail hawk for nearly all that time. He stuck with me at the same altitude, but stayed directly across the circle from me. I was in awe of him never flapping his wings until I realized....uhhh....neither am I. I only came down because my neck was hurting having to look almost straight up.

I have so much more to learn to catch up to experienced RC pilots it doesn't even seem possible. After today, there's no turning back. heh heh heh.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Eric_N57105]

Eric, great description of the SS and Ez* difference. I fly both and have always tried to explain the difference to someone and couldn't have done it better than how you did. Glad to see you are having success now - fly on!

Thanks, Almsy. I'm really hooked on this stuff, and it seems to be getting worse and worse each day. I go through 4-6 batteries every morning now. One of the perks of being retired.

Later this week, I'm going to take the SS back out with the ES and do some comparisons just for fun. If anything new pops up, I'll post it.

First I have to install a new vertical fin on the SS. I made one from a yellow meat tray last night. It's a little thicker and denser than the original and hopefully will stand up better. I'm thinking of getting some 2mm Coroplast from the local signmaker.

I appreciate the comments, Almsy.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[viking]

Just built on of the new and improved SS. The plastic part is sturdy and a whole lot of the aluminum body sets through it. Secure it with 2 screws and it's all done. I am buying 2 of the all metal sticks just for giggles but the plastic joiner seems rather sturdy (1.15mm by caliper).
I needed a break from the helicopter flying so I bought one slapped a brushless motor on it and beefed up the landing gear bushplane style so I could land just about anywhere.I've flown some wicked fast and agile stuff before but the SS is without a doubt the most worry free electric thing in my fleet.
I hear tale of people being able to haul 30 oz into the air with a SS. Could this be true??

[qban_flyer]

Viking,

There was one at CASA this morning fully equipped with a complete onboard video outfit. Its proprietor claims that it weighs in at better than 34 ounces!

He has beefed the landing gear quite a bit and the wing has got CF rod on tis leading and trailing edges, then there are two other CF rods going across the wing on top for added insurance. He's also added CF rods from the vertical fin to the horizontal stab.

He's using a Park 450 on his and seemed to fly just as nice as my much lighter one. :o

[VOLUNTEER]

is the paint. The new one is an orangish red not the fire engine red of yore and it's a dull finish in contrast to the shiney finish of the old ones. What ever happened to " if it ain't broke don't fix it" ?

[qban_flyer]

is the paint. The new one is an orangish red not the fire engine red of yore and it's a dull finish in contrast to the shiney finish of the old ones. What ever happened to " if it ain't broke don't fix it" ?The point I have been tryng to make all along. Glad you came out and said it.

I wonder what other things might be "different" on the "new and improved" version of the Slow Stick. :rolleyes:

[Idaho]

I like the old saying "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT".
From back on page 5. ;):)

[qban_flyer]

YEP! :D

You've said it all! :D

[Bill G]

I remember as a kid back in the 70's, there was a big kick on using the "New and Improved" phrase with foods. It was usually just an attempt to see if they could brainwash consumers with "mind over matter", thinking that they would believe it tasted better, if they told them so. Well it didn't work. Your taste buds instantly told you that the manufacturer decided to save money by switching to cheaper ingredients. I haven't seen these "new and improved" food products for years. They still mess up a good product now and then, but they keep their mouths shut and hope you don't notice.


Quote:
I like the old saying "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT".


There's a modern version of this saying that I like too, but I can't post it here.

[qban_flyer]

I remember as a kid back in the 70's, there was a big kick on using the "New and Improved" phrase with foods. It was usually just an attempt to see if they could brainwash consumers with "mind over matter", thinking that they would believe it tasted better, if they told them so. Well it didn't work. Your taste buds instantly told you that the manufacturer decided to save money by switching to cheaper ingredients. I haven't seen these "new and improved" food products for years. They still mess up a good product now and then, but they keep their mouths shut and hope you don't notice.


Quote:
I like the old saying "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT".


There's a modern version of this saying that I like too, but I can't post it here.
YEP! :)

But we can still tell and in some cases we stop using the product! :D

Yeah! Not worth the risk getting a "Love Letter" via the PM system. :o

[VOLUNTEER]

I just finished putting this "new" wing together and I got to tell you all:

1. It's a reddish orange

2. It's a thinner foam.

3. It's got much more flex in it than the "old" wing.

4. It's weaker and will need much more tape, cf, ca and epoxy to keep it in one piece and do some heavy lifting.

5. It's just plain cheap.

Also the front wing rods are white- the TE ones are still black. Dunno if it makes much difference.


The "new" tail feathers are thicker foam than the "old" ones but why?

Ah so, the inscrutable mind of Mr. Lin .................

[qban_flyer]

I just finished putting this "new" wing together and I got to tell you all:

1. It's a reddish orange

2. It's a thinner foam.

3. It's got much more flex in it than the "old" wing.

4. It's weaker and will need much more tape, cf, ca and epoxy to keep it in one piece and do some heavy lifting.

5. It's just plain cheap.

Also the front wing rods are white- the TE ones are still black. Dunno if it makes much difference.


The "new" tail feathers are thicker foam than the "old" ones but why?

Ah so, the inscrutable mind of Mr. Lin .................Even though I hate to see you go through this aggravation, I feel this has put the "cheapening of the Slow Stick" issue to rest so to speak.

I was critical of the "new and improved" version of the Slow Stick based on the "split boom" factor on the photos posted. Quite a few came after me, a few more were downright hostile and thought I had something against GWS and the Slow Stick in particular.

One went as far as to state that only the person who started a thread on the new version had any voice in this matter since the rest of us had "no experience" with the "new and improved" model. What they failed to realize is that my 50 plus years in aeromodeling grants me one thing most of the vociferous ones do not have, experience. Experience affords me to see shortcomings
on many products, even before I get my hands on them. To me a good picture is woth a thousand words.

I've forgotten more about aeromodeling and RC flight in general than what some ARFers will aquire in two lifetimes of assembling said models.

Like I said at the beginning of this post, I hate you had to go through this in order to post your impressions here from an experienced builder's point of view. Since you have assembled the original and are now working on the new version, yours are the impressions I will trust.

What is really a shame is that they have cheapened what used to be a very nice and inexpensive model. If they thought the consumer was not going to notice the changes, they miscalculated grossly. I doubt this issue is going to go away anytime soon. Hopefull Mr. Lin and company will notice this and do some fast back peddaling! :(

[kulgan]

Hi Arlie,


3. The Easy Star is tough as a beach ball.

Not in my experience :) I tore the nose off right behind the canopy on about the 7th flight, just hit the ground from not all that far up either. Now its trash, tried gluing it back together, won't fly right. Tore the elevator flap off also and the wing tips seem easily damaged. I think some newbies may be mislead by all the glowing posts on the Easy Star, I was. It is not all that durable IMHO.

[Bill G]

Is a slow stick for a newbie?

No, its for IMAA and E3D competition. Also competes in Scale Masters.:eek:

I can't believe this thread is still going. YES, THE SLOW STICK IS FOR A NEWBIE. Did me just fine. Still going after I passed it on, to get others started in flying, at the club.

There are some that say that a beginner plane must be able to win the DEMOLITION DERBY NATIONALS. Kinda like a 1972 Pontiac LeMans wagon. Well that's just bulloney, and its getting old.

Let's be realists, not for the point of insulting people, but just being realists. This plane will fly miles out of trim, with the cg basically anywhere under the wing. The real topic is, 'IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT WITH THE SLOW STICK, THEN YOU CAN'T MAKE IT PERIOD". I stated before that "Some people just suck at flying", and a bunch of people got offended. Point is, we're blaming the crap out of the poor plane, when its not the plane's fault.
Do your darn homework, spend a few minutes reading about flying, spend a good 30 seconds reading the literature that comes with the receiver and ESC, and you may have a chance. People try to do everything with NO investment in time, and then come here to either rant, get help, of often some combination of both. The combination of BOTH is a real recipie for success.
The prop thing:
Do your shirts and pants have a tag? Do you put them on backwards? Well, maybe, but for the point of discussion, the number of reverse installed propellers discussed here basically proves the previous paragraph's issue.

Thank You Kulgan, for these words of realism (quoted below). Unless Multiplex has some patented form of foam never seen on this planet, I'll break the thing in pieces, just like a GWS plane.
Kulgan's response to the Easystar being as tough as a beachball:
Not in my experience :) I tore the nose off right behind the canopy on about the 7th flight, just hit the ground from not all that far up either. Now its trash, tried gluing it back together, won't fly right. Tore the elevator flap off also and the wing tips seem easily damaged. I think some newbies may be mislead by all the glowing posts on the Easy Star, I was. It is not all that durable IMHO.

[Eric_N57105]

The EasyStar is NOT indestructible. It is just several orders of magnitude less fragile than a Slow Stick. Both are good trainers for newbies when they are in the air. Both fly well, though very very differently. But when us newbies make the inevitable mistake, the EasyStar survives better than the Slow Stick. You will spend more time actually FLYING, logging air time, with an ES than you will an SS. That's all we are saying.

I have progressed very easily in a couple of weeks from breaking the Slow Stick to flying the EasyStar without any structural damage whatsoever. I am no expert, but I can fly in wind that blows my hat off. I can do inside loops, outside loops, inverted for about 10 seconds or so, rolls, low passes, vertical climbs until I can't see it (BL motor), etc. My EasyStar is about a month old.

This is certainly not intended as brag. I'm just saying I never would have advanced this far so fast sitting on my tailgate repairing my Slow Stick.

The really sad part is that some newbies might actually believe what you say that, 'IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT WITH THE SLOW STICK, THEN YOU CAN'T MAKE IT PERIOD". If I had believed that, I wouldn't be having so much fun with my EasyStar.

For those who want to learn on their own, get the most survivable plane you can because you are going to make mistakes...some big ones. If you have an instructor by your side, it doesn't make a lot of difference what you learn on.

That's all we're saying, Bill.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

[Idaho]

Let's be realists, not for the point of insulting people, but just being realists.

This post by Bill G consists primarily of insults. I'd like to draw it to the attention of the moderator and request it be removed.

There's lots of useful informaton and good dialogue in this thread.

[Bowman Flyer]

Yes,Slow Stisk is an great begginer aircraft.It flies at 5-10 mph,rolls inwards on turns rather then outwards and re-stabalizes itself

[ministeve2003]

I've heard a lot of bad things about the slow-v in the past... Bad tX issues, doen't like wind worth a crap...

However, for a beginner, I don't perticularly like the slowstick either... beginners have a tendancy to turn to far in one direction and with no ailerons (rudder only) you can't turn back easy.... If you intend to do a slowstick, I'd say put ailerons on it... It'll be easyier to control...
SK

Ps, I own a slowstick, to me its just Ok, Some pple love it... its a personal prefference thing...

[Krazy Pilot]

I would like to offer a third option: That being the Megatech (correction - should read Multiplex) EasyStar. It will withstand more crashes than a Stick, as it is made of foam. It is bigger, to handle the wind better and make it easier to see at a distance. It also uses a pusher prop.

I agree with the radio choice, The Spektrum DX is a nice setup.

As an owner of a DX6 and an Easy Star, I can say they are both awesome. I love just crusin with the throttle off with the Easy Star, and it practically lands itself.