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pmh
05-14-2006, 12:13 AM
Hi all. New to Wattflyer, also new to r/c. Hope someone can clarify a situation with my p-51. I own a p-51 Mustang park-flyer by Wattage. I've had several flights with this bird but only in slight wind conditions[3-5mph]. Flies great, stock 370 motor, no problems. I try to fly in zero wind and this will not take to the air! Period. Tried several times-she launches full throttle-up elevator-and settles to the ground after about 25 feet. I wonder if this plane is just under-powered or needs a running-throwing launch? I do not use landing gear as I fly off a grass field. This has me very perplexed-any input would be greatly appreciated. When flying in wind I simply hand toss at shoulder height, full throttle, and off she goes with some up elevator. I know that these Mustangs are known for aggressive behavior due to design, but shouldn't they fly just as good in no-wind? Hope someone can help me straighten this out.

Also, I hope I'm posting correctly!

Sky Sharkster
05-14-2006, 02:18 AM
Hi, PMH, welcome to Wattflyer! Your problem with the Mustang is not entirely unusual; It doesn't have the power to accelerate up to flying speed, but once it gets there it"s OK. For example, there are some ducted-fan models that must be bungee launched to a fairly high speed and then fly very well, but not slowly. The 'Stang likely has a minimum flying speed and without wind, a straight "Throw" won't achieve it. A running launch might help, but the problem is compounded by the fact that it's a small, low-wing model and hard to grip properly.
Another possible solution is that the prop may be too small in diameter; Very fast pylon-type racers need a strong toss to get going but then can reach over 100MPH. This is deliberate compromise as a larger prop (less RPM) would allow it to "start out" easier but the model wouldn't reach the top end speed. I would suggest you try a prop that is one size bigger in diameter but one size smaller (lesser) in pitch. More disc area, nearly the same RPM, more thrust.
The Wattage Mustang with stock motor and batteries is marginally powered, and another possibility would be to add one more cell if you're using NiMH or NiCads. After it's up and flying, you may have to throttle back, it will be a little over-powered for normal flight.
If all else fails, 3 cell LiPolys are another option, but I'd try the prop or larger battery sizes first.
Good Luck!
Ron

pmh
05-14-2006, 03:40 AM
Ron,

Thank you for the fast response. Now that you have me headed in the
right direction, I'm sure the next time I post a message it will be to report a successful no-wind flight!! Now if it will just quit raining...

Thanx,

Paul

alienx
05-14-2006, 10:56 AM
If has it ever gone back to working since it stopped flying? I have the PZ Cub with the 370 motor and my motor just stopped making enough power to get it moe than about 20 feet off the ground. Had to limp around the field but would not climb. I replaced the motor and all was back to normal.

pmh
05-14-2006, 06:01 PM
alienx,

Hi. Yes, the first time it flew wind was about 3-5 mph, not too bad. Second time no wind at all-dead calm. All control surfaces and motor/prop tested o.k. pre-flight, just as before. Launched-settled right to the ground after 20-25ft. Third flight-wind about 5-10 mph-heavier than I like-launched it and away she went, effortlessly. This flight seemed to disprove the lack-of-motor -power theory, as I was thinking the same thing. I think perhaps I'll start with different prop setup as Sky Sharkster suggested and go from there. Your input is greatly appreciated though, as a friend had the identical problem you described with his GWS zero. Ended up being bad motor and poor connection @ battery wire-just no power to get him up. Hopefully the Mustang will fly better with different prop--nice and cheap!! If it ever stops raining I'll find out and let you guys know. Until then-happy flyin'!!

pmh
05-26-2006, 01:21 AM
Got the bug to upgrade so I went with geared Feiago setup from BPHobbies. 2.80-1 ratio, brushless motor, 10 amp BP esc. I'll experiment with different props in the 8-9" dia. as opposed to the 7" stock one, which I don't like anyhow. Now I can share li-pos between this and my SU-27 xxl to keep the cost down. Anyone out there using these brushless Feiago's? Curious how they perform. For the low price I couldn't resist. Hopefully have this mounted and ready for flight next week sometime.

Richalons
05-30-2006, 05:12 AM
I have the same problem with my Wattage Mustang. I also have an issue with the electric speed control. The motor does not start turning until the throttle stick is set to about half. Does anyone have the same issue?

Bill G
05-30-2006, 05:24 AM
Hi, PMH, welcome to Wattflyer! Your problem with the Mustang is not entirely unusual; It doesn't have the power to accelerate up to flying speed, but once it gets there it"s OK. For example, there are some ducted-fan models that must be bungee launched to a fairly high speed and then fly very well, but not slowly. The 'Stang likely has a minimum flying speed and without wind, a straight "Throw" won't achieve it. A running launch might help, but the problem is compounded by the fact that it's a small, low-wing model and hard to grip properly.
Another possible solution is that the prop may be too small in diameter; Very fast pylon-type racers need a strong toss to get going but then can reach over 100MPH. This is deliberate compromise as a larger prop (less RPM) would allow it to "start out" easier but the model wouldn't reach the top end speed. I would suggest you try a prop that is one size bigger in diameter but one size smaller (lesser) in pitch. More disc area, nearly the same RPM, more thrust.
The Wattage Mustang with stock motor and batteries is marginally powered, and another possibility would be to add one more cell if you're using NiMH or NiCads. After it's up and flying, you may have to throttle back, it will be a little over-powered for normal flight.
If all else fails, 3 cell LiPolys are another option, but I'd try the prop or larger battery sizes first.
Good Luck!
Ron

All true!

I had one of their Corsairs, or you could say "I was had by one of their Corsairs". If you threw the hell out of it, it would almost touch ground, and then get on step. All their stuff is marginally powered. Mine was a 400 DD setup. Neither DD or Geared are good when underpowered. the DD will fly fast for a tank with a high stall speed, but you have to darn near bungee launch the tank to get it going. The geared setup will have high thrust, but barely get the plane above stall speed, if it can even do that.

One solution for mine was to install a Maxx 4011 DD cobalt motor. It would actually fly for a minute or so, on the stock NiCd at the time. I never flew it that long, however. Total lack of experience and a near vertically capable overpowered horribly flying tank was far beyond me. I had a few amazing total luck saves, where I flew another 10 seconds or so afterwards.:eek:

pmh
05-31-2006, 03:14 AM
I have the same problem with my Wattage Mustang. I also have an issue with the electric speed control. The motor does not start turning until the throttle stick is set to about half. Does anyone have the same issue?

Richalons,

Glad to hear I'm not the only one!! I also had the same problem with the esc-motor halfway throttle issue. Like I said in my starting page-in a slight wind they fly quite well, being under-powered and all, but who wants to do that all the time? Not me! Nothing is worse than having a good-looking warbird that does not fly as it should. Here's what I did to fix it-installed a Feigao geared brushless motor(2.80-1 ratio), cheap 10 amp esc(BP Hobbies) and 3-cell li-poly battery. I installed a 9x7 GWS prop and flew it on Sat. This bird came alive!! No more power issues at all. Talk about fast!! She's a real handful this way-great flying plane at last. Now, if you keep it stock the only thing you can really do is over-prop just like Sky Sharkster said. In my opinion if you like the plane do a bit of homework and upgrade the motor to something better, if you can afford it. It's worth it in the long run!

Thanks,
Paul

Richalons
06-03-2006, 07:26 AM
Paul,

Thanks for your reply. What kind of modifications did you have to make to mount your new motor? Can you post some pictures?

Rich

pmh
06-03-2006, 03:23 PM
Paul,

Thanks for your reply. What kind of modifications did you have to make to mount your new motor? Can you post some pictures?

Rich

Rich,

Mods were actually quite simple. I bought a balsa stick for mounting GWS motors(1.00) and mounted it inside the firewall. I kept the right and down-thrust mounting method, just like stock. Basically keeping the prop centered in the cowl will get you there. Had to make a hole in firewall, adjust the stick to where you want it, and CA glue it. I had motor mounted on stick for accuracy. Once CA glue is dry-2 minutes or so-I used Household Goop to strengthen the bond. Re-mount everything and test for proper fit. It's very easy to remove the battery tray so you can work in the esc and receiver. I also glued 2 balsa sticks inside the tray, sanded flush with top, and installed velcro on top of wood to hold battery(I used li-po's). Receiver and esc are mounted under battery tray. If I can I'll post some pictures in a couple days.

Thanks,
Hope this helps,

Paul

Richalons
06-04-2006, 05:14 AM
Thanks Paul,

I took my mustang out today in 10 to 15 mph winds. i was determined to get her in the air. I accomplished a rolling take-off and during climb out, it tip stalled and crashed. Broken wing and motor mount. More power is what I need! Thanks for your help, I will be making modifications soon.

Rich

pmh
06-04-2006, 04:31 PM
Hey Rich,

Your story is very similar to mine. When I first received my P-51, I waited for the perfect calm day to fly. No matter what I did she would not take to the air-it stalled every time. Ironically, every time a low speed stall occurred, major damage to the plane ensued. Then I developed an I-don't -give -a-rip-attitude. Waited for the windiest day I could, and threw her in the air! She took off like a bat out of xxxx! This was so unexpected, I was almost in disbelief. Brought her about 100' high and settled into a gentle left-hand turn. Unfortunately, I somehow made an error, and stalled her, left wing tipped, and bam! Right into the ground. Guess how much damage? You guessed it. None. Go figure! The next time I tried to fly her was on another calm day. Launched her, flew about 25', and settled to the ground(not enough air speed). Mind you, this was at shoulder level-and settling to the ground very slowly-broke the tail in half and dinged up the main wing!! Unbelievable!! That's when I upgraded. I figured heck, its already busted, might as well make the best of it. Once I upgraded, my friend and I went to the field to fly. He has a GWS Zero. Brushed 400 motor was his only upgrade. He crashed about 10' above the ground and blew his plane to bits. I proceeded to fly mine with all the afformentioned upgrades-unlimited vertical, tight, crisp loops and very fast and aggressive! I was about 80' high when I came out of my second loop, somehow made a mistake, and death-spiraled to the ground! Man, I knew it was finished. When we got to it the only damage done was a cracked cowl and cracked motor mount! Half throttle into the ground and that was it! It took about 30 minutes to repair when I got home. I am now waiting for the time to go out and enjoy flying her once more. Hope I inspired you a bit.

Paul:cool:

Bill G
06-05-2006, 04:29 AM
They do have to make their stuff crash well, since everyone needs to have something going for them. I still have my old Wattage POS. Won't sell it, since I don't want shot. Won't give it away, since I'm not trying to confuse friends, as to my value of them.

pmh
06-06-2006, 01:48 AM
I wish they had a disclaimer that said:Flies marginally well; save money for soon needed upgrades!

Bill G
06-06-2006, 04:44 AM
I wish they had a disclaimer that said:Flies marginally well; save money for soon needed upgrades!

The problem is that it doesn't save you enough money to take a trip out to Bandalier Circle and...:eek:

RCAeroguy
06-08-2006, 11:50 AM
I wish I'd spent my money on one of those blue pools for the backyard instead. The thing sits in the box all broken. Three attempts to get it in the air and the motor mount is smashed. Anyone have any luck getting Wattage to stand behind the POS?

pmh
06-09-2006, 03:37 AM
I didn't even bother contacting Wattage. I just tossed some $ at it and took the hit to upgrade to a decent system. The reason? I like the looks of the P-51. I am fairly happy now, but always remember the cash I spent...

DetroitHawk
06-10-2006, 07:01 PM
Ok, i am looking at the http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_parkzone_p51d_mustang.htm


Is this the same plane you guys bought?

It comes with "Powerful 480 motor with gear reduction" is this enough to fly this plane in zero wind?


I bought a stryker F-27B about a month ago and am looking for another plane to buy. The P-51 has history; that gives it the appeal to me and allowing me to entertain the idea of buying one for myself. What i need to know if this really is a bad apple and prone to crash or will it fly in the same nature as the F-27B does. (Mind you it has the same controls)


....lets see some pics you guys!



my stryker

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/25/nicepaintjobpic2fb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Grasshopper
06-10-2006, 08:07 PM
DH, the P-51 actually does pretty well in a slight wind. 10mph max. The reason I say this is because it seems to help when hand launching it. Mine always seems to be kind of pot luck on what it's going to do when you toss it. Once up, it flys pretty well. I'm going to change mine to lipos for more power. It may just be me but I feel like I always have to be at 3/4 to full throttle to have much fun with it. It needs to come in a little hot on the landing but not bad. I haven't experienced the infamous "Tip Stall" yet. All in all it's a fun plane to fly. If you're wanting a warbird and have a radio, the E-flight P-47 is hands down a better performer even with the stock brushed motor. It's a blast to fly! I still fly my stock P-51 every time I go out though.

Bill G
06-11-2006, 04:17 AM
Mine always seems to be kind of pot luck on what it's going to do when you toss it.
Pretty much says it all with their stuff. I'm convinced they have no prototype stage. They figure it makes it more exciting. Miss on some, hit on some, but its always a surprise package.


Ok, i am looking at the http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_parkzone_p51d_mustang.htm
I bought a stryker F-27B about a month ago and am looking for another plane to buy. The P-51 has history; that gives it the appeal to me and allowing me to entertain the idea of buying one for myself. What i need to know if this really is a bad apple and prone to crash or will it fly in the same nature as the F-27B does. (Mind you it has the same controls)

I'm sure its fine. Parkzone tends to make stuff that flys. As for the manufacturer of this thread's product, well that's another story....

pmh
06-11-2006, 05:56 PM
Detroit Hawk,

No. This is not the same p-51 Mustang. The one you're looking at is the Parkzone brand. Everyone seems to like this one, from the forums I've read. My p-51 is from Global-Wattage. I personally would go with the Parkzone brand, unless you want to sink some $ into it. Never had too much fun with mine-very under-powered. Only flew in windy conditions, stall speed was probably too high for the 370 motor. Since I went brushless I am totally happy. The PZ should be a good flier right out of the box, though I've never flown one. Check Wattflyer forums for some input on PZ P-51-there's more than this Wattage brand. Good luck!

Paul

P.S. I need my wife's help to scan in some pictures, not computer savvy! Pics of mods and finished product coming soon.

Richalons
06-13-2006, 05:45 AM
Paul,
I put an E-flite 450 outrunner, an e-flite ESC , and a LIPO in the Wattage Mustang. I have not taken it out yet but I should have all the power I need now. I will put the motor and ESC in my e-flite P-47 after I get some low wing experience with the Mustang.

I'll let you know how it goes...

Rich

pmh
06-14-2006, 01:04 AM
Rich,

Glad to hear that! By now you have probably tested the motor on the bench and probably know you have much more power than before. Before test flight know this: Beware the center-of-gravity! Mine, on the first flight, tended to be tail-heavy. The nose would pop up from just the slightest up-elevator. This could lead you into a nose-over-uncontrolled loop if you're not expecting it! My CG was kept as stock, but has been since moved forward a bit to relieve this tendency. Also, this plane is very aggressive. I would suggest using low rates to start with until your comfort level improves. You, like me and a few others, are used to a P-51 that does not fly. Be ready to react appropriately when this baby finally takes to the air! Hopefully the only correction you need to take is to pull back on the throttle 'cause it's too fast now!
Good luck, and let us know how she flies.
KEEP THE P-51 IN THE AIR!!!

Good luck again,

Paul

pmh
06-14-2006, 03:44 AM
Here's a couple pictures of the new motor installed on the firewall. Maybe this will help someone looking to modify. Rich, I know this is too late for you, but learning to add and edit the photos was a real pain. Sorry.

XxOoCoBrAoOxX
06-15-2007, 07:55 AM
Hey guys I need some serous help. I was looking through hobby-lobby (http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=1447) and saw this plane, the p51-Mustang http://hobby-lobby.com/p51_marie.htm (http://hobby-lobby.com/p51_marie.htm) and am really interested in ordering me one. I would like to know if I should buy the Motor, Esc (http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=2595), Battery, that is recomended for it? I really wanted to build me a warbird for quite sometime. If you would like to pm me and tell me what I should do that would be cool.

Thanks
-Adisn

zaphod98620
08-04-2007, 07:12 PM
have not flown myself but many posts in forum keep refering to its FRAGILITY.

BEEN RESEARCHING MUSTANGS FOR SOME TIME

alfa to be good flyers but weak durability. other alfas i have seen in LHS bear this out

So I am still looking, lleaning to EPP cause I need durability landing in weeds/stubble

good luck to both of us mustang lovers to find what we need

pmh
08-29-2007, 02:55 AM
have not flown myself but many posts in forum keep refering to its FRAGILITY.

BEEN RESEARCHING MUSTANGS FOR SOME TIME

alfa to be good flyers but weak durability. other alfas i have seen in LHS bear this out

So I am still looking, lleaning to EPP cause I need durability landing in weeds/stubble

good luck to both of us mustang lovers to find what we need

I purchased the Wattage RTF Mustang. Upgraded to brushless for obvious reasons. This plane is extremely durable. Fuselage is plastic along with cowl. All flying surfaces are foam with a durable covering making them very strong. All parts are fully supported by Wattage. One of my favorite planes to fly! Sorry so late-computer was busted.

losifanatic
08-30-2007, 09:59 PM
The alfa planes are really good flyers (I got the p-47 and got to fly the mustang) They are really quick, light, and some what fragile. Mine has taken 2 smacks to the ground at full speed (around 70mph) on its roof. I was dragging rudder across the ground and lost it. There isnt even a scratch on it. Its a plane that you fly when its nice out b/c they are only like 14oz they dont like the wind.

pmh
09-01-2007, 05:19 AM
After I upgraded to brushless I took her out for a test flight. She was so fast I lost control and death-spiraled to the ground from about 100' and WOT!! After careful inspection the only thing broken was the motor mount. Go figure! This plane is really tough. Too bad she doesn't fly well on the stock set-up. By the way I'm comin' in @ about 16 oz. or so.:ws:

darmie
08-17-2008, 04:22 AM
Hello folks. I know it's been a while since this thread has been active although, I have a question about brushless on this p 51
I'm looking for the most inexpesive setup that will work for this plane.
I've been looking at

https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?catname=All+Outru nner+Motors&idCategory=63&ParentCat=59


since they have cheap motors.

1. What brushless combo should I be looking for,
2. would I have to buy the complete brushless motor to include the geared system or can I replace just the stock motor with a brushless and what would fit best?

Thanks for the info. I'm just new to brushless that fly. Been messing with rc18's brushless but don't know what's best for this model plane.
Again, not looking for the expensive upgrade just something simple brushless to help it along..

Thanks
Darmie.//

roltec
10-18-2009, 03:39 AM
Rich,

Glad to hear that! By now you have probably tested the motor on the bench and probably know you have much more power than before. Before test flight know this: Beware the center-of-gravity! Mine, on the first flight, tended to be tail-heavy. The nose would pop up from just the slightest up-elevator. This could lead you into a nose-over-uncontrolled loop if you're not expecting it! My CG was kept as stock, but has been since moved forward a bit to relieve this tendency. Also, this plane is very aggressive. I would suggest using low rates to start with until your comfort level improves. You, like me and a few others, are used to a P-51 that does not fly. Be ready to react appropriately when this baby finally takes to the air! Hopefully the only correction you need to take is to pull back on the throttle 'cause it's too fast now!
Good luck, and let us know how she flies.
KEEP THE P-51 IN THE AIR!!!

Good luck again,

Paul
pmh
by the way where is th CG on this p51. It was given to me and I have no info other than this forum. I assembled it but need to know the CG point.
roltech

darmie
10-19-2009, 03:41 AM
I'm not sure on the 51 where exactly the cg is located, but on most planes, with batteries / fuel all loaded, it should balance approx 1/3 the way back from the leading edge of the main wing. With the 51, you would turn it upside down and use your fingers on each side 1/3 the distance back from the leading edge and see where it balances.
Now, As you fly the plane, if it fells somewhat heavy and less responsive you can move your cg more to the tail. If it's to responsive and unstable, move the cg forward. More nose heavy is safer than tail heavy. So, be careful of not being to tail heavy as you experiment with moving the cg. And the best way to move cg is by moving the battery.
Check out this youtube link for more cg info
youtube / watch?v=NZtqZ2UhnDg
Hope that helps.
Darmie

roltec
10-21-2009, 03:17 AM
Did this p51 not had a manual? most likely the cg would be in the instructions? I know that 1/3 is the most likely be the logic place , but you never know with some of those electrics, I have 15 other models, but only 4 electric this being one of them. If anyone has the manual cg in the instructions Please let me know. I read that you can get the manual at watts for $4.00 something?

roltech????