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admin
08-23-2005, 04:24 PM
This photo was taken of a Suburban which torched when a lipo pack was charging inside it and caught fire. Read the account of what happened here (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3285644). This is just a reminder to take the noted precautions at all times to ensure proper safety.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/20028/Ge96286.jpg

Red Scholefield
08-23-2005, 05:39 PM
Well I've read completely through this thread on RCU and I'm surprised that no one has asked the obvious. Here you have a guy with warrants out against him - indicating he might be a bit on the sloppy side when it comes to keeping things in order. He has a SUV full of all kinds of electronics, chargers, planes and fuel jugs. Is there a remote possibility that something shorted out and the lithium packs had no part in the incident? Why was the vehicle so remotely located from other vehicles? - No others in view. Not your normal "pits" set up. :confused:

Matt Kirsch
08-23-2005, 09:21 PM
There's a lot of "obvious" missing from that thread... Many wives' tales being perpetuated, misinformation being passed around, panic being fostered...

Be careful with your lithium technology, but also understand it and what could cause problems. The two main dangers are:

1. Incorrect charging.
2. Physical damage.

Frankly, I don't think there's a single LiPoly or LiIon fire that can't be traced back to one of these two. Actually, 1 is a subset of 2, because charging incorrectly causes physical damage to the pack.

EpoweredRc
08-23-2005, 09:23 PM
There's a lot of "obvious" missing from that thread... Many wives' tales being perpetuated, misinformation being passed around, panic being fostered...

Be careful with your lithium technology, but also understand it and what could cause problems. The two main dangers are:

1. Incorrect charging.
2. Physical damage.

Frankly, I don't think there's a single LiPoly or LiIon fire that can't be traced back to one of these two. Actually, 1 is a subset of 2, because charging incorrectly causes physical damage to the pack.

they all lead to one thing STUPIDITY.If your careful and even more careful,this kind of thing wouldnt happen.

ragbag
08-23-2005, 10:08 PM
Some people have been known to shoot themselves with an empty gun.

Again you know the rules, please follow them.

The previous scenaro smells fishy, almost like it was staged. A made for TV show?

So many questions, so few answers.

By George

Red Scholefield
08-23-2005, 10:27 PM
We hear all these stories from guys in the hobby - lithium spontaniously burst into flame . . . . .

Yet consider the millions of cell phones in use that are amost exclusively lithium polymer . . . . . . . Only one incident I've ever heard of, and that was a teenager that only dropped the phone and it exploded . . . .at least thats the story he told his mother and they told the lawyer.

Lithium in digital cameras, cam corders, lap tops . . . . same story. I recall one reported incident from long ago when was lithium first was being introduced into lap tops and as I recall those were recalled after the first incident.

We just have to be aware that after decades of using recharable batteries that you really had to work at to create an incident (and the more creative among us did it with regularity) we now have a new power source that does take just a little bit more care in handling.

EpoweredRc
08-24-2005, 12:29 AM
We hear all these stories from guys in the hobby - lithium spontaniously burst into flame . . . . .

Yet consider the millions of cell phones in use that are amost exclusively lithium polymer . . . . . . . Only one incident I've ever heard of, and that was a teenager that only dropped the phone and it exploded . . . .at least thats the story he told his mother and they told the lawyer.

Lithium in digital cameras, cam corders, lap tops . . . . same story. I recall one reported incident from long ago when was lithium first was being introduced into lap tops and as I recall those were recalled after the first incident.

We just have to be aware that after decades of using recharable batteries that you really had to work at to create an incident (and the more creative among us did it with regularity) we now have a new power source that does take just a little bit more care in handling.

Only droped it,I have droped every cell I ever had over and over. and with cellphones there in a case these lipos are in no cases and we dont really have a dedicaded charger people try to charge to fast or some might not even know what there doing.

I have heard a few cell phones exploding or whatever,not many tho.

Mike Parsons
08-24-2005, 01:30 AM
There is so much bad information in that thread it is scary.
The only thing I gathered about why his vehicle is parked so far away is that they stated he was in the Heli area. Seperate Pitts maybe? Still...watching your SUV burn to the ground with all your RC stuff in it and then to get arrested for outstanding warrants?!...bad day indeed.

-Mike

turnwaldw
08-24-2005, 02:23 AM
I am a vehicle test driver for one of the big three we have lipoly batterys in our data recording equipment and we do some rough driving and never have had any issues to date. The only problem was stupidty of one of our guys charging one he was so bad he did it twice he is no longer testing put in charge of tollite paper. The cause of that was using the wrong charger.

Geoff_Gino
08-24-2005, 06:42 AM
My personal opinion - "that has insurance written all over it!"

Geoff

debhicks
08-24-2005, 02:44 PM
Cell phones exploding was tracked back to the purchasing of black market batteries. Big corporate trying to shave a few dollars off at the publics risk.

I get a little apprehensive when you hear of people buying cut rate packs from ebay or where ever. However, if they are educated and know the risks involved then the precautions taken should aleviate any mishaps such as the insurance job above.:)

It is nice to be able to have recourse however. Accountability is lost when you go to purchasing from John Q, who just happens to have these cool lipo's that cost $$$. Here's the deal.

Get em here today for only $9.99. $5.95 Shipping and handling not included. Handling charge is for each unit purchased. Handling is $5.00 per unit. Sorry no delivery outside the United States. Unless you pay us more.

You have to read that last paragraph really fast to get the full effect. :)

Come on you know it happens.

Matt Kirsch
08-24-2005, 05:38 PM
Actually, the "black market" batteries that caught fire were purchased by the OWNERS OF THE CELL PHONES. Can't blame "corporate america" for that one. You see these little kiosks run by shady-looking individuals in every mall in the USA, selling batteries and accessories for cell phones at drastically reduced prices. They're getting this stuff on the cheap from China.

It's called "buyer beware," and "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is."

debhicks
08-24-2005, 05:42 PM
Oh, I stand corrected. I thought I had heard, there I go thinking again, that a major company had gotten a bad batch of batteries and did a recall on them. I thought it was my provider. Anyhow the lesson is still the same.

ForestCam
08-24-2005, 06:36 PM
Why I always charge my lipos on the core support.:rolleyes:

Oh and BTW doesn't everyone carry a fire extinguisher in their vehicles?:p

EpoweredRc
08-24-2005, 07:58 PM
Why I always charge my lipos on the core support.:rolleyes:

Oh and BTW doesn't everyone carry a fire extinguisher in their vehicles?:p

Well so your motor would be only thing on fire,and No,They dont come with them installed.

MTShipp
08-25-2005, 03:41 AM
What's that blue item in the right foreground? Doesn't look like a fire extinguisher to me!

BTW, here is MY STUPID LiPo act....accidently hook two 640 LiPos end to end because you thought one was your ESC! Sparks! Melted connector! No explosion/fire though and both packs still work, discharge fine and charge up without going BOOM! Got several flights on each pack since that "accident" with no problems.

Lucky I guess.

bruff
08-26-2005, 12:49 AM
The blue item is a can of glow fuel the got out of the truck before is was totaled.
bob

Mike18
08-26-2005, 01:10 AM
What's that blue item in the right foreground?

Looks like a Power Master fuel can

GeraldRosebery
09-06-2005, 12:09 AM
Looks like a Power Master fuel can

Goes to show what the priorities are here. Save the glow fuel first! Good call, especially if it's Powermaster!!! Powermaster rules! Yeah!

EpoweredRc
09-06-2005, 04:58 AM
Goes to show what the priorities are here. Save the glow fuel first! Good call, especially if it's Powermaster!!! Powermaster rules! Yeah!

I know I would have went after something worth something LOL.
kinda makes you wonder about this one doesnt it :confused:

Doppelganger
09-07-2005, 12:11 AM
I thought cell phone batts were li-ion, not lipo?

Steve

nova801428
09-07-2005, 02:19 AM
that doesn't look like a suburban (toyota 4runner?)

Doppelganger
09-07-2005, 03:19 AM
that doesn't look like a suburban (toyota 4runner?)

^^Correct^^
Steve

jerryb
12-20-2005, 05:59 AM
Have only charged li-pos once....used two clay flowerpots to charge and to store, one right side up, other upside down on top of 1st one with a piece of tin foil blocking the holes...in my cellar.......ADEQUATE??????

qban_flyer
12-20-2005, 06:19 AM
The RCU post:

"Well, here it is the real skinny.... I was there and was the first to see the "puff" of black smoke. It occured at the Heli area, and what started as a small fire rapidly spread to the whole vehicle from the time I did a 100 yard dash to get an extinguisher, to the time I came back the passenger compartment was well involved. all of 30 seconds. He was charging a lipo pack for a mini heli, had a couple of gals of glow in there multiple transmitters, laptops, batts, and other such objects. As far as what charger Im not sure, I did see an astroflight blown out of the car at the beginning of the fire about 20' away. Throughout the whole fire I watched mini helis come flying out the front windshield, batts go flyin' and every other powder actuated safety restraint, and device explode, sounding like Max's house on the Fourth (local inside). I see fires often, as that is what I do for work, but this one was awesome in the fact that it spread SOOOO fast unbelievable. Now to make matters worse the guy got hooked for outstanding warrants. A bad day got worse for him... heres a little pic.... notice the glow fuel can to the side. Thats the only one that got out alive."

The first red highlighted and bold parts of the narrative point in the direction of a rather "unstable" individual. TXS, laptops, batteries and "other such objects"? Spare me, please!

The second red one begs one to question: What did the poster expect when a fire occurs next to flammable materials? DUH???

The blue highlighted areas confirm what I suspected to begin with after reading the narrative. A careless individual of the highest magnitude operating very dangerous devices in a very non chalant manner.

Let's not blame the Li-Pos for this incident as it was the careless operator's arrogant attitude that caused the fire. He was an accident waiting to happen. I wonder if the charger was set up for Li-Po at all?

I hate to be the one saying this, but I am glad the cops finally caught up with him. It was about time.

Mike Parsons
12-20-2005, 01:17 PM
Have only charged li-pos once....used two clay flowerpots to charge and to store, one right side up, other upside down on top of 1st one with a piece of tin foil blocking the holes...in my cellar.......ADEQUATE??????
Jerry,
I know of a few people that have rigged a charging station out of drywall and a single flower pot. A square piece of drywall is the foundation and the flower pot is simply put over the top of the pack while charging. No need to block the holes as you want it to vent.

The common killer (for lack of a better term) is complacency. Check twice, charge once and always be in close proximity to the packs while they are charging.

-Mike

panzerd18
12-20-2005, 10:10 PM
Wow what a story. The guy said a electric helicopter shot out the windscreen with an explosion.

jamuhlhahn
12-21-2005, 02:09 AM
Only droped it,I have droped every cell I ever had over and over. and with cellphones there in a case these lipos are in no cases and we dont really have a dedicaded charger people try to charge to fast or some might not even know what there doing.

I have heard a few cell phones exploding or whatever,not many tho.
Quote= might be more horses tails than horses????

Bob_CO
12-21-2005, 04:04 PM
No one has mentioned the idea of insurance fraud yet. Given that the guy was arrested on the spot because of an arrest warrant it should at least be considered.

qban_flyer
12-21-2005, 04:43 PM
No one has mentioned the idea of insurance fraud yet. Given that the guy was arrested on the spot because of an arrest warrant it should at least be considered.

Anything can happen nowadays. Who knows how that individual's mind operates, though I am sure that if he had outstanding warrants the last thing he wanted was to have the fuzz coming near him. I'll have to discard arson as a possibility.

To carry glow fuel in close proximity to a charge station, to have laptops (I can only afford one) plus the countless other items found in that vehicle makes one wonder about sanity or state of mind and or intoxication.

Another poster mentioned the fact that the vehicle was far away from the rest. Was he asked to park far away from others? Or did he do it so no one would peek at the stash within it?

Strange set of circumstances surround this peculiar "incident".

Bob_CO
12-21-2005, 06:59 PM
Anything can happen nowadays. Who knows how that individual's mind operates, though I am sure that if he had outstanding warrants the last thing he wanted was to have the fuzz coming near him. I'll have to discard arson as a possibility.

To carry glow fuel in close proximity to a charge station, to have laptops (I can only afford one) plus the countless other items found in that vehicle makes one wonder about sanity or state of mind and or intoxication.

Another poster mentioned the fact that the vehicle was far away from the rest. Was he asked to park far away from others? Or did he do it so no one would peek at the stash within it?

Strange set of circumstances surround this peculiar "incident".

For right thinking folks you would be right about not wanting attention. But as you later indicated you have to question his state of mind. Criminals don't always use the best judgement. Take the guy that wrote his bank robbery note on his own deposit slip. lol

The things that caught my eye were multiple high dollar items inside, the seemingly isolated parking location and the fact he was wanted.

If this is a real lipo fire then it should be a classic case of what not to do.

qban_flyer
12-21-2005, 09:03 PM
For right thinking folks you would be right about not wanting attention. But as you later indicated you have to question his state of mind. Criminals don't always use the best judgement. Take the guy that wrote his bank robbery note on his own deposit slip. lol

The things that caught my eye were multiple high dollar items inside, the seemingly isolated parking location and the fact he was wanted.

If this is a real lipo fire then it should be a classic case of what not to do.

YUP!

My feelings exactly. Something doesn't smell right in this case, and I don't mean the smell of noxious fumes from the fire.:eek:

jerryb
12-25-2005, 04:24 AM
Mike Parsons......TX for info. on the safe way to charge li-po batteries.... this part of country is cold and snowy, so I must charge inside for the winter...I'm sure charging outside in summer and fall will be a whole bunch safer and with much less trepidation.

TeslaWinger
12-31-2005, 03:42 PM
... and those outstanding warrants? Arson? Insurance fraud? Loaded with expensive equipment and flammables, ready to burn- and the lipos get the bad rap....

I do a lot of video work for lawyers and see insurance fraud every day- and this one has the whiff of wonder to it!

Again, we have a blazing inferno- and again no confirmation it was even connected to a proper lipo type charger- complete with 'character' issues- but no hard facts as to the cause of the 'failure' that would be helpful to anyone.

Perhaps lithium would be as useful for the performance of the users, as it has been for our aircraft...? :D

Fred Marks
12-31-2005, 07:19 PM
Knew of a similar ocurence before Li Pos. Friend Joe Solko traveled the US in a station wagon after he retired from the USAF . He always carried a model with him and flew wherever he could. While driving, the vibration caused a glow plug clip to short on the metal gallon can of glow fuel. The resulting explosion and conflagration consumed the station wagon in minutes. Luckily, joe bailed out without being hurt. In my experience, a Li Po does not produce a sustained fire long enough to penetrate a fuel can or even the plastic jug to ignite the glow fuel. Once the glow fuel is ignited, Katie bar the door. Be careful with your fuel and with any batteries and they should never be lodged together.

Rugar
12-31-2005, 07:29 PM
In my experience, a Li Po does not produce a sustained fire long enough to penetrate a fuel can or even the plastic jug to ignite the glow fuel. Once the glow fuel is ignited, Katie bar the door. Be careful with your fuel and with any batteries and they should never be lodged together.

If may not burn long enough, but it surly can burn hot enough to melt the plastic jug within seconds. At least that's what I have seen on the videos some have done under intentional controlled lipo fires.

Fred Marks
12-31-2005, 07:52 PM
If may not burn long enough, but it surly can burn hot enough to melt the plastic jug within seconds. At least that's what I have seen on the videos some have done under intentional controlled lipo fires.

Yes, the flash of fire is intense. In actual experience, the hair on my hand was not even singed at a distance of six or so inches in a 3S 3200 pack fire. If the pack were rested against the plastic jug, it surely could melt through. But who would place a pack right next to a jug of fuel? Perhaps the same guy who stores his gasoline container next to the furnace in his basement?:rolleyes:

mattalbr
12-31-2005, 10:42 PM
Let's see...

...unattended charging...
...inside a vehicle...
...not isolated from flamables...
...sometimes you get what you deserve.

You can ignore one of the rules sometimes and get away with it. When you ignore too many at one time, what else can you expect to happen?

Matt

Rugar
12-31-2005, 10:43 PM
Let's see...

...unattended charging...
...inside a vehicle...
...not isolated from flamables...
...sometimes you get what you deserve.

Matt

Or what you wanted to happen :rolleyes:.

ragbag
12-31-2005, 11:57 PM
A friend of mine set his car on fire many years ago and no lipos were involved.
He was jump starting a Volkswagen and a spark ignited the fumes from the battery and it exploded.
Fortunately it was a Volkswagen, the battery was in the floor in the back seat and everything was contained in the back.

The above story has been told several times and I still think it was a made for tv setup. The Suburban one, not the Volkswagen one.:D

The suburban one tells nice for the naysayers of lipo's anyway......


By George

RCWorks
01-01-2006, 12:08 AM
^^Correct^^
Steve

Was this Pic taken at ElToro?

RCWorks
01-01-2006, 12:48 AM
Why was the vehicle so remotely located from other vehicles? - No others in view. Not your normal "pits" set up. :confused:

Well If my van was sitting next to this SUV I think I would take a moment from my busy schedule of flights long enough to move my van away from one displaying smoke and flames, you on the otherhand you are most welcome to continue servicing your plane on the tailgate of your truck next to this one. I would be kind enough to send you a cold drink to cool you off while you continue working. While I am handing you a cold drink I might suggest you move your truck so the field won't have a matching pair of vehicle fires.

easytiger
01-01-2006, 02:01 AM
Anything can happen nowadays. Who knows how that individual's mind operates, though I am sure that if he had outstanding warrants the last thing he wanted was to have the fuzz coming near him. I'll have to discard arson as a possibility.

To carry glow fuel in close proximity to a charge station, to have laptops (I can only afford one) plus the countless other items found in that vehicle makes one wonder about sanity or state of mind and or intoxication.

Another poster mentioned the fact that the vehicle was far away from the rest. Was he asked to park far away from others? Or did he do it so no one would peek at the stash within it?

Strange set of circumstances surround this peculiar "incident".

Jeeez. Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?
The car was alone because ALL THE OTHER CARS MOVED after the fire started.
Insurance fraud. Yeah, sure. Think he had any insurance besides basic liability on that old clunker?

easytiger
01-01-2006, 02:02 AM
Let's see...

...unattended charging...
...inside a vehicle...
...not isolated from flamables...
...sometimes you get what you deserve.

You can ignore one of the rules sometimes and get away with it. When you ignore too many at one time, what else can you expect to happen?

Matt

Well said.

qban_flyer
01-01-2006, 02:24 AM
Jeeez. Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?
The car was alone because ALL THE OTHER CARS MOVED after the fire started.
Insurance fraud. Yeah, sure. Think he had any insurance besides basic liability on that old clunker?

Matter of fact I do know what I am talking about. I spoke and speak as a former Insurance Claims Fraud Investigator. The man was hauled away by the Fuzz!

Re-read posts 34, 38, 39 & 40. I am not alone thinking along these lines. Too many valuable things in that vehicle, the one you refer to as an OLD CLUNKER may have fully insured or not insured at all. Perhaps it may have had had stolen license plates on it as well.:eek:

Anyone here know if everyone moved their vehicles after the conflagration began, or was it his choice to keep all the goodies in his vehicle from spying eyes by parking it so far away?:confused:

Why was he arrested?:confused:

easytiger
01-01-2006, 03:01 AM
Yes, actually several guys who actually DID move their cars away from the fire said so on the other thread on the subject.

fabricator
01-01-2006, 03:04 AM
It looks like a simple case of darwins theory in action, or possibly murphys law, or the two together, when that happens you might as well stay in bed for a week or so.

qban_flyer
01-01-2006, 06:02 AM
It looks like a simple case of darwins theory in action, or possibly murphys law, or the two together, when that happens you might as well stay in bed for a week or so.

HE, HE, HE.

I like your train of thought!:D

fabricator
01-01-2006, 12:51 PM
HE, HE, HE.

I like your train of thought!:D

:D ;)

RCWorks
11-16-2006, 11:43 AM
It looks like a simple case of darwins theory in action, or possibly murphys law, or the two together, when that happens you might as well stay in bed for a week or so.

If this was a Darwin award winner the owner would be found in the seat belts while watching the battery pack charge, or would have had the lipo pack secured to his testicals. Darwin award winners do a public service when they remove themselves from the gene pool. I have a modest example...

The manager of an apartment house was surprised to find the legs of a corpse sticking out an apartment window. Police entered the apartment and found the deceased man's head soaking in a sink full of hot water.

Apparently the out-of-work man had returned home after a night of drinking and drugs. He decided to slip in through the kitchen window. The window was fixed at the base and tilted out, giving him just enough room to squeeze his head through as far as the sink before he got stuck. While flailing around trying to escape, he turned on the hot water tap. Police were not sure why he had not turned off the water, pulled the plug, or--perhaps most important--entered through the front door, since they found the keys in his pants pocket.

TeslaWinger
11-18-2006, 12:58 AM
Now there's a worthy post to resurrect this enjoyable thread loaded with World Class Quips! Seems there's no hope for 50% of the species (my WAG), between flammable batteries and locked doors. That won't reduce flying field overcrowding but the ride there will encounter a lot less traffic!

As for me I will quit drinking... hot water, anyway! You won't find my hilarious obit at Darwin.com! The site should be required reading for what NOT to do!

But a large percentage of flyers, as documented in a LOT of incident reports, were handling them properly when they ignited so its really a different dynamic at work here, not mere Natural Selection at its finest. They were not acting stupidly- they were unlucky.

The A123 cells look like a much safer and longlasting replacement for the larger size packs but lipos will be with us for a long time.

The good news here is that the A123 cells are going to be made in smaller sizes also soon- so stay tuned for yet another revolution with no more fires. The 5 to 15 minute charge got my attention as well as the high discharge rates and huge cycle life- and no Venting With Flame. It would be helpful for us all to go to the new non-volatile batteries as soon as possible! Y'think?

Otherwise (if we don't switch) we risk our own entry into Darwin.com's amazing story collection of lethal primal stupidity and plain old bad luck. :D

You got 'em stored WHERE??? :D

TW

RCWorks
11-18-2006, 08:44 PM
A real Darwin winner would most likely want to keep his LiPos cool while charging, therefore the battery pack would be hooked to the charger and the gallon of Power Master would be sitting on top of the battery pack as a heat exchanger to keep the cells cool. The award winner would be resting next to his charger in the seat belts.

rlmcgill714
12-12-2006, 04:52 AM
I had an old lipo that I didn't trust. Abused over and over, dropped, puffed up like a balloon, etc. We tried to make it explode. Threw the thing as hard as we could into the asphalt. Ran over it, dropped large rocks on it. In the end it came apart into pieces and never so much as fizzled. I had 4 NIMH's sitting on the seat of my truck 3 or 4 years ago when one of them blew the end of the pack right off, burning several holes in my passenger seat. I consider myself lucky, and take no chances with any batteries now. Battery bunkers and careful attention. Lipo's are just as safe as any other battery, when treated correctly.

electriconly
12-12-2006, 04:13 PM
In case you don't think the issue of Lipo fires is serious.... there is a recent closed thread on RC-Groups where a long term very reputable RC vendor has been named in a lawsuit by an insurance company for selling a Lipo Sack that "contributed to a $350,000 loss". :eek:

No details are available as the vendor has to be very very carefull what they say in a public forum.

Brad :(

ragbag
12-12-2006, 09:39 PM
I had an old lipo that I didn't trust. Abused over and over, dropped, puffed up like a balloon, etc. We tried to make it explode. Threw the thing as hard as we could into the asphalt. Ran over it, dropped large rocks on it. In the end it came apart into pieces and never so much as fizzled. I had 4 NIMH's sitting on the seat of my truck 3 or 4 years ago when one of them blew the end of the pack right off, burning several holes in my passenger seat. I consider myself lucky, and take no chances with any batteries now. Battery bunkers and careful attention. Lipo's are just as safe as any other battery, when treated correctly.

Ah my friend, LIPO'S are only as safe as the "person" handling them.:D

There has always been a hint of what really (?) happened in everyone of these stories. No one wants to admit to what really happened.

Like the old saying, don't open your mouth and prove it.:eek:


.................................................. .............................

TeslaWinger
12-13-2006, 01:23 AM
Sony recently had to recall 5 million laptops because of bad lipos that were a fire hazard!

Fool me once- Ouch! Fool me 5 million times and I'm gonna find me somethin else to power my aero-jalopy with!

Is it's volatile chemistry simply a bad idea - like the combo hot air and hydrogen balloon, and should be abandoned?

With A123 almost ready to replace them it's a reminder that NOTHING ever gets fully optimized before it is overtaken by the Next Big Thang! :D.

The sooner we can move to the next chemistry the better off we will be! What a terrible price to pay for the performance increase! :O

PS: Doesn't mean I'm gonna turn mine loose... :D

ragbag
12-13-2006, 04:53 AM
Sony recently had to recall 5 million laptops because of bad lipos that were a fire hazard!

Fool me once- Ouch! Fool me 5 million times and I'm gonna find me somethin else to power my aero-jalopy with!

Is it's volatile chemistry simply a bad idea - like the combo hot air and hydrogen balloon, and should be abandoned?

With A123 almost ready to replace them it's a reminder that NOTHING ever gets fully optimized before it is overtaken by the Next Big Thang! :D.

The sooner we can move to the next chemistry the better off we will be! What a terrible price to pay for the performance increase! :O

PS: Doesn't mean I'm gonna turn mine loose... :D



Forgot about Dell.


Got my third Dewalt in yesterday. Got the MEC A123 kits the other day. Might get a chance to build some packs over the weekend.

Fotunately at the moment all I need are three and four cell packs. I can stack the packs when I need them.


.................................................. .....................

TeslaWinger
12-14-2006, 03:07 AM
Rag, crank up a new thread when you dig into 'em! Looking forward to a sturdy replacement for high amp loads and these DeWalt packs might well be a good way to go!

Thanx
:D

electriconly
12-14-2006, 10:38 PM
The A123's are a great way to for high amps. I'm flying my 1150watt 50amp Ultra Stick 60 on an 8S1P A123 pack. 7 to 8 minute flights and less then 20 minute re-charge in the plane with my Astro 109.

Brad

Walt Thyng
12-15-2006, 02:04 PM
It's a Blazer, not a suburban. Almost too funny (-:
Walt

Tireshred
12-15-2006, 02:07 PM
I've had 3 Lipo packs swell, all E-Sky 2s packs for the Coco Lama and Honey Bee, once I bought a proper charger (Hobbico Elite), no problems with packs up to 2100mah. But I do worry about leaving a plane in my truck for those off hand flights, I've been looking for a ceramic bunker to store them in the truck, I haven't found anything yet.

DickCorby
12-27-2006, 01:53 AM
Knew of a similar ocurence before Li Pos. Friend Joe Solko traveled the US in a station wagon after he retired from the USAF . He always carried a model with him and flew wherever he could. While driving, the vibration caused a glow plug clip to short on the metal gallon can of glow fuel. The resulting explosion and conflagration consumed the station wagon in minutes. Luckily, joe bailed out without being hurt. In my experience, a Li Po does not produce a sustained fire long enough to penetrate a fuel can or even the plastic jug to ignite the glow fuel. Once the glow fuel is ignited, Katie bar the door. Be careful with your fuel and with any batteries and they should never be lodged together.

I've only seen (caused) one actual fire with Li=Po's. and I can tell you it is a powerful thing, and burned half way thru a 2X12 bench seat in the short time it took to actuate the fire extinguisher. Of course it was my fault, left the setting at 1.5 Amps after charging a 1500 MAH pack and plugged in a 800MAH and walked away. Took about 2.5 minutes before there were flames.

I have also had them turn to sausages under the same circumstances. But by quickly unplugging them they did not burst into flames.

Both instances were early on in my use of Li-Po's.

So now:
1. I make sure and turn to knob to zero after removing a charged battery from the charger, and
2. never leave them alone until I'm definately sure they are not warming up, and the meter is indicating correctly. I charge in my workroom, and never have a problem anymore by following these two rules.

DickCorby
12-27-2006, 02:05 AM
From what I've seen regarding 123 Batteries, we will be going back to the same old problem that Li-po's were instituted to resolve. The dreaded WEIGHT thing to get the same MAH to power our planes. So far I've only seen pretty low MAH availability, at weights that rival larger nicads.

A couple of the places I've looked don't even list the weight of the cells, and it looks like it takes more cells to get the same voltage levels. Not sure just learning to use Li-Po's correctly isn't the answer. Until something better comes along in the future. Wouldn't hydrogen power be great??