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Twmaster
06-04-2006, 03:47 AM
Here is another plane I am converting to E-Power.

Green Models 50" Tiger Moth 30.

I'll be posting some pics of how I did the conversion and what my opinions are regarding the kit and the conversion.

It came well packed and for now I'll say I am happy with the quality of the laser cut parts, assembly and covering on this ARF. This is nearly identical to the Tiggie Hobby-Lobby sells (covered in silver).

This one is in civilian livery with a red fuse and silver wings, tail etc. Fairly nice job on the landing gear too. Also includes a fiberglass cowling. Plane also features pull-pull cables for the rudder and elevator, flying wires, and steerable tail wheel.

One curious thing about this kit is that it just about completely bolts together. The only glue needed (so far) is for the CA hinges in the rudder.

This was designed for a 25-30 sized glow engine. Mine will be set up as follows:

E-Flite Power 25 outrunner
11x8 Master Airscrew electric prop,
E-Flite 40A ESC
2 x HS-81 (Ailerons) 2 x HS-311 (R & E) Hitec 555 receiver
2 x 3S 1700 Vampower Pro lipos to make a 3S2P 3400 pack

Here is a stock photo of the plane:

http://www.twinsky.com/powerlinehobbies/productpic/87179.30tigermoth.JPG

Thanks for looking. Off to start assembly.

:D

thunder1
06-04-2006, 05:04 AM
Schweet Mike. I can't wait to see that one at the field! I had a GWS 400 sized TM and it really handled the wind well due to the swept wings. Yours should rock. You'll have great power with the Power 25.

Twmaster
06-04-2006, 05:21 AM
I'm really looking forward to getting this assembled.

I did find a couple of smallish problems. One aileron binds. and one windscreen was broken.

Had to remove the fuel tank which involved a small saw and removal of a brace. It's likely I am going to have to rework much of the lower firewall for the battery mounting.

Attached are two pics. First is the box contents with the bag removed from the fuse. Second is inside the fuse where the fuel tank is. The small brace across the back of the tank is what needed to be removed.

More piccies later in the assembly.

Grasshopper
06-04-2006, 05:56 AM
What a great looking plane. I'd love to see some video of it in flight.

thunder1
06-04-2006, 06:56 AM
Have you seen this page?
http://www.pacaeromodel.com/TigerMoth/TM30Detail/Electricversion/EV.htm

It's a good review of the electric version of the model.

Twmaster
06-04-2006, 07:12 AM
Yup, that's the same kit H-L is selling now. That review is of the older revision of the thing as the current model (like I have) does not come with the wood motor mounting.

The kit I bought is almost identical. But $94 less. ;)

tim hooper
06-04-2006, 08:38 AM
Mike,

That's a nice looking Tiger!:) They have a certain air about them, don't they?

tim

Bill G
06-04-2006, 02:06 PM
It is nice. I saw one with that scheme in Flying Scale on a GWS Moth. Actually looked really good. Definitely the best scheme I've seen so far on the Moth. Second is the blue/white or just straight silver. Yellow really dosen't do them justice.

Twmaster
06-09-2006, 03:36 AM
Just an update. I've been swamped at work this week so little has been done other than the installation of the main landing gear and the vertical/horizontal stabilizers. It's kinda neat the way they did this. Although there is also a warning about how they did this here.

The thing has two blind nuts inside the part of the stationary part of the V-stab. So you run the screws up through the fuse into the stab. Simple. Well not that simple. The screws did not want to thread into the blind nuts so a small amount of work was done to facilitate this. First I took a sharp knife and cleared the excess covering out of the holes the 3MMx50MM screws were to pass through in both the V-stab and H-stab. Next I carefully threaded the screws into the nuts with the stab off of the plane to be sure they fit. I also made sure the nuts were pulled down tight. I then fit everything together and -carefully- started the screws into the vertical. DO NOT PUSH ON THE SCREWS. or you will pop the nuts out. (Don't ask how I know this :)).

Also installing the control horns was loads of fun (NOT!) as the holes in the control surfaces did not match the horns.

Anyhoo, here is a piccie of the stab assembled and the main gear.

Twmaster
06-11-2006, 01:40 AM
Progress!

Well I got the motor mounted. I was worried about the thrust angles but after installing the motor it is obvious the firewall is already installed in the correct position for both down and right thrust. Nifty that!

The installation was deceptively simple. Take the cross mount for the motor, position it so the crankshaft center (marked on the firewall) is lined up. Mark the 4 new holes for the mounting rods. Drill out the holes. I also pushed the existing blind nuts out of their original positions and reinserted them into the new holes. This was a royal pain in the arse getting the things into their holes on the firewall. But it is done and I didn't break too much in the process! :)

I got a set of 4 Dubro 3MM x 50MM socket head screws, a bag of washers and measured then cut 4 identical 31MM long aluminum spacers out of K&S 1/4" thick wall tube. Screwed it all in place and I have what you now see. I'll be removing everything so I can paint the firewall and put locktite on all the hardware.

Next is for me to devise a battery tray. It is likely I'll be cutting a portal through the firewall to allow the battery to be positioned half under the motor and half inside the fuse.

And now for your dining and dancing pleasure I present a photo of the motor installed.

Geoff_Gino
08-01-2006, 10:40 AM
Hi Mike

My TM is the yellow one and I must admit I find the yellow quite pleasing.
My build has so far gone exactly as yours with one improvement - only one hole for the control horns didn't line up.

I am going to be fitting a Hyperion Z3025/6 to mine and will definite use your mount idea. My measurement for the cowl space gives me 100 mm firewall to prop hub, so it seems as though I am not far off your 105 mm. Will adjust to yours. A pic of the cowl in place with the position for the screws would be great, thanks.

Are you leaving the wings unglued and will you do the assembly at the field? I dont like the idea of the self tappers on the cabane and will probably leave that assembled.

Geoff

Geoff_Gino
08-01-2006, 03:45 PM
Hi Mike (again)

One other thing I forgot to metion is that standard servo's do NOT fit in the wing for the ailerons.
I had to cut the pillars off and remount them for micro servo's.
What servo's are you using?

Twmaster
08-02-2006, 01:58 AM
I have not yet decided how I am going to attach the cowl. Still thinking about it. As for the wings I am going to leave them unglued as I may wish to disassemble the thing. The information on the H-L web site say that only two things need to be glued. The hinges in the rudder and their motor mount.

One point to ponder. It is my belief this plane was not intended to have the wings removed with any frequency at all. I am going to leave mine assembled once completed. (other than for repairs of course).

For aileron servos I am going with the Hitec HS-81 per Hobby-Lobby's suggestion. This is the same kit as H-L sells other than the firewall and motor mount included with the version H-L sells. You may need to add a small shim to the mounting arms so the slot in the cover lines up with the servo arm.

I read two reviews on the H-L kit (Quiet Flyer and FlyRC IIRC) Both reviews were favorable and helped me decide to purchase this kit.

Twmaster
08-02-2006, 02:06 AM
Also forgot to add that I found a really really nice pair of light aluminum wheels with tires while attending the Warbirds over Delaware event. Of course like the knuckle-head that I am I -forgot- to get a card from the vendor selling them so I could get more later.

Geoff_Gino
08-02-2006, 09:38 AM
Mike

I think I have decided to go ahead and glue the lower wing. With what I take with me to the club it is going to be more convenient and I will just have to assemble at the field. Did a dry run last night and there are just 4 bolts on the top wing that I'll take off.

Battery and ESC arrive today. Starting to get excited.

Twmaster
08-03-2006, 01:02 AM
Mike

I think I have decided to go ahead and glue the lower wing. With what I take with me to the club it is going to be more convenient and I will just have to assemble at the field. Did a dry run last night and there are just 4 bolts on the top wing that I'll take off.

That's not too bad then.

Battery and ESC arrive today. Starting to get excited.

Careful there big fellah! ;)

Geoff_Gino
08-03-2006, 07:44 AM
Mike

Really excited now. :D Made real good progress last night as you'll see from the attached.

Excellent call on the battery box and with an added bonus - the blind nuts were much easier to install. :p Added a base plank for the battery and with the pack all the way back it looks as though the CG will be a breeze.
Ran the motor and was pulling 33 amps with a 10x5 APC prop and with 7 amps to spare a 11x5 should work pretty well.

Going to finish up tonight and I'll post final figures tomorrow.

Geoff_Gino
08-04-2006, 07:08 AM
Hi Mike

You've be quiet.
Finished up last night and here are my final specs.

Motor - Hyperion Z3025/6 (42 amp with 60 A/60s Peak)
ESC - CC 45
Battery - Hyperion 3S1P 3300 mah (20C continous)
Prop - APC (E) 10x5" drawing 32.4 amps
AUW - 1900 grams
Thrust - 1500 grams Static
Actual Watts/lb - 86 Watts
WOT flying time - 6.11 minutes.

I have set the CG to 4" from the LE of the top wing as per their instructions and all the control throws are set to the book.

Seems to be ready for a 'maiden' this weekend, hopefully the weather Gods will be on my side. (We've had some real bad weather with lots of flooding.)

Twmaster
08-06-2006, 01:10 AM
Sorry, busy at work.

That Moth looks quite nice Geoff. That's a bit of an unusual looking motor mount you have there. What battery pack have you chosen to use?

I've spent some time working on the landing gear and pull-pull for the elevators today. Can't say that I like the pull-pull wire setup much. How much wire did you have to trim off the control lines? Could you post a pic of the wires close to the elevator?

Geoff_Gino
08-07-2006, 06:35 AM
Hi Mike

My LHS did not have Kokam's in stock and I settled for an Hyperion 3,3 amp 20C 3S1P pack.

I have a lot to report and not all good I'm afraid. The unusual motor mount is from Hyperion for their 30 series motors and quite nice actually as you can use it as a radial mount as well.

Will post pics tomorrow. I found the pull - pull wires OK and had to trim off about 6" off each, everything works well, just time consuming to set up.

Geoff_Gino
08-07-2006, 07:13 AM
Arrived at the club very early and had my usual warm up with my wing to settle the nerves. Assembled the 'Moth' and then took my 60" Rainbow for 12 minutes of ccts and bumps and felt I was ready for the 'Moth' maiden.

Was I ever NOT ready for the events that followed.

Taxied up and down twice and the rudder bites nice and early with the tail coming up nicely. Turned around and lined up for take off. Virtually no wind but a some turbulance at 20' feet up, no sweat!! :o

Wound open the throttle and 'Moth' jumped into the air with an immediate heavy roll to the left which needed full right aileron and rudder to correct and climbing like a fallen angel. Needless to say I was to busy trying to fly level to have much time for the 'trims' and after a full 5 minutes managed to get a reasonably level flight which was by no means straight. :eek:

Timer went off at 6 minutes which meant it was time to get back onto the ground which was no mean feat and in the end the landing was pretty good. Back to the pits and a serious look at the setup. :confused:

There was no obvious wing distortion and the final trim on the ailerons was within 3 mm from level and a lot better than some I've seen, rudder was also not far off. Took the trim out of the radio and adjusted the control surfaces to where they were when flying level and again all looked good.

Charged the battery and in my nervousness did not even note how much charge they took. Ready for second flight which now should have been a breeze.

No change in the wind and I was ready. Rolled out nice and straight and when I hit the throttle same thing - straight up with a heavy roll to the left. Corrected that and an immediate heavy roll to the right and punched straight in on her nose. This broke the motor shaft and amazingly not the prop. Other than slight damage to the firewall which was easily repaired and a broken wing wire the 'Moth' will be ready to go after I replace the motor. :mad:

Close inspection revealed the rudder control horn was rubbing on the wing but not binding when on the ground, (I don't think this was the problem but have corrected it)

The usual post mortem in the pits has led me to believe that the plane was incredibly tail heavy with the consequent loss of control. I am going to set the CG at least another 1/2" forward and let her roll out more gently before lifting off.

If any one else has thoughts about the maiden please shout as I am going to need all the help I can get.
Another club member had an exact maiden Sunday except his roll was to the right, but matched my 'flight' exactly.

Geoff_Gino
08-10-2006, 07:16 AM
OK - obviously not, anyway to round this off I have come up with some final figures after 3 very successful flights yesterday.

Firewall to prop hub = 105 mm (would be better at 110 mm)
CG 3 & 5/8" inches from the LE of the top wing.
Suggested travel of control surfaces in the book set as LOW rates
Added 20% to that for HIGH rates (which I am flying on)

I had a lot of very nice compliments from fellow club members about the looks of my Tiger and lots of queries as to where I got it.

Very happy with the way it is setup and flying now that the CG is sorted.

dimadee
08-11-2006, 04:02 AM
I don't want to hijack this excellent thread, so I will keep it brief.

If there are any Australian modellers out there who are interested in one of these 50" Tiger Moths, I am about to place an order for some kits. They are available in 3 colour schemes as shown below. Expected cost will be around A$250 (possibly less depending on final shipping and transit cost).

There is also a 78" (1980mm) 'maxi' version, and a 'mini' 26.5" (673mm) Tiger Moth.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions or requests at kontrolfreak@pobox.com

Thankyou

Twmaster
08-11-2006, 05:07 AM
Geoff: Thanks for the info. I'll be keeping the CG in mind. Sorry but not much work has been done since last post as work is kicking my behind in a bad way. Not to mention I had to purchase four new tires for my work truck today ($1,100!!) so all my toy money is now gone (POOF!) for a bit. ;)

Tim: No worries on a thread hijack! This is a really nice ARF and if any of you folks in OZ are thinking about one of these I'd say do it!

I originally wanted the green/yellow color scheme but the vendor I got mine from only had the red/silver. (not complaining though! :D)

dimadee
08-11-2006, 05:41 AM
Thanks Mike,

It was your thread that started me looking for the manufacturer of this kit!

I look forward to your flight report.

Geoff_Gino
08-11-2006, 06:43 AM
Hi Tim

As Mike says - no worries. Just glad to have sorted mine out and be able to have a chance to warn others.
The CG given is very obviously incorrect and I think the distance from the firewall to prop hub is a VERY important oversight on Green R/C's part.

Other than that my fellow clubs members are in awe of what a beautiful plane it is and believe me now that it is 'sorted' it is a very gentle flyer.

Geoff_Gino
08-11-2006, 07:03 AM
Mike

To answer your question on the elevator pull-pull.

Look up the inside of the fuse and you'll notice that the top pair is on one clevice as is the bottom pair. The top pair is for 'up' elavator and the bottom pair for 'down'.

Dereck
08-12-2006, 10:35 PM
http://www2.gpmd.com/image/g/geea1040.jpg

I wonder if the two are related ...

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ285&P=7

$79.99, US price... Any colour scheme you like, but the UC needs some work.

Several of these were electrocuted at the 8 - 10 roundy cell level, before BARFing went from social novelty to social disease level ;)

Of course, if you really want to build a small Tiggie on the installment plan, the old RCM&E / Radio Modeller empire is now in the hands of something called "Encanta" who are building a website that might be www.encanta.co.uk (http://www.encanta.co.uk) when it's up and running. If they don't lose the old Radio Modeller plans, Gordon Whitehead's 48"-ish Tiger Moth would easily convert and is one of the best of the lot for a practical flying scale model, both in looks, flying ability and accurate CG placement on the plan :rolleyes:

For those reading in US dollars, it's also in the RCM range :

http://www.rcmmagazine.com/e/env/store/store-plans-alpha.html?sid=0001TqzlesxX7gs4Vw9g7Q8&link=/store/store-plans-catalog-tem.html&item=plans:PL-793

Which is apparently still selling plans, understand the mag itself is somewhere in the buy/sell process too.

My cynical nature ponders that the latest rash of ChinKlone Tiger Moths might be the result of a marriage between a Whitehead plan, an enlarging copier and someone who can translate paper drawings to CAD/CAM laser cutting...

I found this one, nothing else known about it, but its a tadger larger than this thread's versions:
http://www.dldesigns.net/tmoth.htm

Or for those frightened off by odd wing angles:

http://www.rcmmagazine.com/e/env/store/store-plans-alpha.html?sid=0001TqzlesxX7gs4Vw429T3&link=/store/store-plans-catalog-tem.html&item=plans:PL-734

Gordon's Gypsy Moth, one of the Tiger's predecessors with straight wings.

Did you know that the Tiger's collection of sweepback/dihedral angles was due to a Government requirement? Or would you even be surprised by that? ;)

Regards

Dereck
(WHo should really be painting the guest bedroom...)

Geoff_Gino
08-14-2006, 07:19 AM
Hi Dereck, Mike

Gordon Whitehead's book makes for interesting reading and using that knowledge have come with the following conclusion to solve my 'Moth' problem.

Gordon places some emphisis on the fulcrum effect and in my case it has had quite an effect.

My prop hub is set at 105 mm from the firewall and to my intense dislike I had to add 150 grams of lead as far forward as I could get it. I am changing this tonight for sure. I think the plane will be a lot better off with 110 mm prop hub to firewall and it shows in the cowl mounting. Important measurement that was left out of the instructions.

Another thing that has cropped up is the amount of left torque I am getting with the electric motor as against the IC .30 which the plane is meant for. At 60% throttle I have plane that is flying straight and level, but the moment I advance the throttle to 80% my Moth flies lefthand ccts all on it's own with absolutely no input from me. i.e. not enough right thrust for the higher torque of the electric. I will tonight add a 3 mm spacer to point the motor right along with increase of prop to firewall.

Will post results of course ;-)

Geoff_Gino
08-21-2006, 07:04 AM
Hi Guys

Dereck, thanks for all the wealth of knowledge you have passed on and for the De Haviland links you posted in another thread. Got a great picture of a Moth in flight and that helped get my CG and flying attitude sorted.

Mike, final adjustments made and the Moth is now a docile Biplane and boy oh boy does it look great in the air. Had so many enquiries I could start a website.

Moved the motor mount forward to have 110 mm from firewall to prop hub, set CG at 3 5/8" and added an extra 3 mm of right thrust.

Take off is now very, very precise even though the Moth still climbs out left with 100% throttle from level flight.

Finished up with an additional 100 grams of lead in front to get the belly of the plane horizontal which gives it the characteristic "tail high" attitude in flight.

All in all a great little flyer. It's just a pity that the firewall to prop measurement is left out and Green R/C got the CG point very wrong. (perhaps the IC motor is the determining factor, this certainally accounts for the added right thrust the electric motor needs)

Dereck
08-21-2006, 04:20 PM
Hi Geoff
Not that I have much experience with BARFs but the reviews I read in the paper mags suggest many glaring errors, ommissions and faults.

For those who've wondered about mag reviews being gloss-overs of any faults - the trick is to write them so as the fault is mentioned, but only the really dedicated reader can understand. Editors seldom have time to read to that depth, being as they're on a flat-out schedule to get mags out the door, and those who only want to buy a big shiny box because mostly they haven't bought one in a week or two probably can only read at the level of an IM anyway.

Take it from me - if you ever read a BARF review by yours truly, every wart and all will be in there :) But you will have to look closely...
(Which is probably why no mag, let alone the internet rags, would trust me with one :rolleyes: )

Even so, I am amazed that the prop - firewall measurement was left off. That's nearly as fundamental as the wing incidence and not only affects aerodynamics and balance, but scale appearance in this prototype's case.

Still, at risk of sounding harsh - you bought the model, which is the maker's aim. What you do with it is up to you ...

As to that left turn under full power - maybe you're actually carrying too much full power for the design's aerodynamics? That would overpower any corrective measures, either fixed like sidethrust or applied, like rudder control.

A well known electric flier, who shall remain nameless but always designed his own models and was doing this better than most when the rest of us were happy to get four minutes in the air and a loop, reckoned on using his prototype's rigging angles throughout and compensating with flight controls. One of his models was a Focker DVIII parasol - I designed one of them years ago and happily put down and sidethrust in. How he flew his quarter scale electric with a huge prop with neither boggles my mind - more so as I saw him fly it too.

Such fun! Enjoy the Tiger Moth, though it's hard not to with one of them.

Regards

Dereck
Who has photos someplace of an early 1990's DH rally, when every flyable DH biplane in Europe was at Old Warden aircraft and watched then take off for nearly two hours, one every two or three minutes...

Geoff_Gino
08-22-2006, 06:58 AM
Hi Geoff

As to that left turn under full power - maybe you're actually carrying too much full power for the design's aerodynamics? That would overpower any corrective measures, either fixed like sidethrust or applied, like rudder control.




Hi Dereck

Yes overpowered she is. Started the project with my tried and tested 100 watts/lb and with AUW at 1,7 kg needed 300 watts - which is what I have. It is obvious that the .30 gas engine doesn't have the same torque which is why the right thrust was so far off. Flying at 40-50% throttle is fine on my setup and I am getting good level and straight flights, take off has become a breeze and with a little rudder control and throttle management. Leaving out the firewall to prop measurement could have been fatal, but now forewarned is forarmed.

Anyway, that's what this forum is all about - the next guy that gets this model will have some good info to work with thanks to guys like yourself and Mike.

green127045
08-24-2006, 02:54 PM
Mike

Like you I have a Power 25 motor kicking around. What's the watts measurment with the Power 25 motor, 11 x 8 prop and your 3 cell battery pack???

Thanks

James

Twmaster
08-24-2006, 07:14 PM
James I have not yet run my motor up. I build/assemble slowly :(

Piperfan
08-25-2006, 03:59 PM
Ok, I just ordered two of these kits. I have read the feed back on some of your problems. Any thing else any one can think of before I start?
Thanks

Piperfan
09-05-2006, 03:27 AM
Well, got the build done and was balancing the plane. I had to add about 12oz of lead to balance at the suggested 3 5/8" above. When I attempt the taxi the nose is so heavy now the plane rotates and noses over at the slightest power up. Even on pavement. I am wondering how did the determination for moving the CG forward up come from. How much, if any weight was needed to get the CG to balance at the suggested 3 5/8" from LE of upper wing? Any help would be appreciated.

E flite power 25
E flight 40amp ESC
1 TP 2100mAh 11.1volt pack
Hitec HS81MG in wings.
JR standard size servos in Fuse.
JR 6channel Reciever.

Moved Battery forward thru fire wall to just below motor. Pics to follow.

Twmaster
09-05-2006, 05:12 AM
12 ounces????

Something isn't right.

Geoff_Gino
09-05-2006, 06:35 AM
Well, got the build done and was balancing the plane. I had to add about 12oz of lead to balance at the suggested 3 5/8" above. When I attempt the taxi the nose is so heavy now the plane rotates and noses over at the slightest power up. Even on pavement. I am wondering how did the dertimation for moving the CG forward up come from. How much, if any weight was needed to get the CG to balance at the suggested 3 5/8" from LE of upper wing? Any help would be appreciated.

E flite power 25
E flight 40amp ESC
1 TP 2100mAh 11.1volt pack
Hitec HS81MG in wings.
JR standard size servos in Fuse.
JR 6channel Reciever.

Moved Battery forward thru fire wall to just below motor. Pics to follow.

Hi Piperfan

Mike is right - something is not right. I had to add 100 grams of weight to mine to get away from the tail being to heavy. My calcs give that as 3,5 ounces. Since having done that mine has become very controlable and the only nose over's I've had so far have been due to pilot error and getting caught in the grass.

At 3 5/8" my plane balances out quite level and although I am still not happy with it's flight attitude (still a bit tail down) it is flying well.

Twmaster
09-05-2006, 02:48 PM
Piperfan,

One thing I just noticed. You are using a 3 cell 2100 pack. IMHO that is not enough battery. While that does not change the weight to the front of the plane issue it would at least allow you to remove some of the lead.

Somehow the boys in the office goofed up and didn't assign any work to me today so I think I will spend some time working on the Tiggie this afternoon.

One thing that has been holding me up is the fact that I don't like the pull-pull system on this thing. To be honest I don't like pull-pull on pretty much anything. Anyhoo, since the instructions are so clear as mud just how is this 'crimp' sleeve supposed to work? Just snug up the wire and crimp? Or do I need to run the wire through the sleeve an extra time or two?

Seems cheezy to me. A close up photo of an elevator horn with wires attached would be grand.

Geoff_Gino
09-05-2006, 03:30 PM
Hi Mike

See my pics above. It would be wise to run an extra turn through the sleeve before crimping. I did not do that and so far mine have been fine despite my crash on the second flight which was hard enough to shear the motor shaft.

I have added cross wires to the wing struts for scale appearance and used nylon covered wire trace which I got from my local fishing shop with extra crimping sleeves.

Piperfan
09-13-2006, 04:24 AM
OK, added a another 2100mha pack to the first and droped the lead from the nose. If you do it right the area below the original tank support can be cut to accomodate 2 2100 packs side by side. the plane flies fine now. I do notice a lot of left turn/roll characteristics when throttle position is above the 2/3 position. If fact it is nearly impossible to turn right at any throttle position above 2/3rds. I have the built in down and right thrust that comes pre built on the fire wall for the gasser version. Any one have any experience with the Hobby Lobby version? Even with the 4200mah set up, I am only getting about 10 to 12 minutes flight time. I am considering moving up to a 14.8volt pack set up. Tell me if I am wrong but I should get lower amperage draw buy increasing voltage. Thus increasing flight time. Will this increase or decrease the RPM? Damn this is fun. Its like learning a whole new science. Post pics soon.

Geoff_Gino
09-13-2006, 06:50 AM
OK, added a another 2100mha pack to the first and droped the lead from the nose. If you do it right the area below the original tank support can be cut to accomodate 2 2100 packs side by side. the plane flies fine now. I do notice a lot of left turn/roll characteristics when throttle position is above the 2/3 position. If fact it is nearly impossible to turn right at any throttle position above 2/3rds. I have the built in down and right thrust that comes pre built on the fire wall for the gasser version. Any one have any experience with the Hobby Lobby version? Even with the 4200mah set up, I am only getting about 10 to 12 minutes flight time. I am considering moving up to a 14.8volt pack set up. Tell me if I am wrong but I should get lower amperage draw buy increasing voltage. Thus increasing flight time. Will this increase or decrease the RPM? Damn this is fun. Its like learning a whole new science. Post pics soon.

I added another 3mm right thrust to my Green R/C model and like you I am still getting lots of left torque at anything above 60% throttle, teaching me to use the rudder a lot more than any other plane I've flown.

And yes you should get lower current draw with an increase in voltage.

Dereck
09-13-2006, 03:15 PM
Reading Piperfan and Geoff, it would be interesting to hear how this model flies on less power, as it sounds like torque is overcoming engine offset.

Another one - and yes, more volts, less amps - would be to use a smaller, faster revving propeller. Rather against what we usually do in e-power circles, but it would put the model back closer to a glow powered model size/prop diameter. If you jump to 4S, you'll need a smaller prop to lower your amps to whatever your system will take, but your power could well have increased.

Sidethrust runs out of effectiveness as you pass a certain point. Probably varies from model to model, but I reckon you'll not get much 'improvement' by going past 5 degrees.

Overpowering a scale model can bring up some interesting reactions too - you will get more torque with power increase, which would increase that left turn from torque, but you won't get much speed increase thanks to all that drag and how it increases ever-more as speed increases.

It can be done - back in England, in the 1980's, I got to see Gordon Whitehead fly several of his scale biplanes. These were all around the 48" span mark and of similar era to the Tiger Moth - he modelled many of the DeH bipes around then. His flights were truly beautiful to watch, despite that the models appeared somewhat faster in flight than a larger model or real aircraft - with a sympathetic series of display centre maneuvres and positioning turnarounds of various styles, watchers soon could imagine they were watching the full sized aircraft being 'wrung out' by a masterful pilot.

Another couple of ideas - hate to mention this, but are there any warps hanging around the wings?

Another one to check - adverse yaw! If your ailerons go up and down equal amounts, you could get left yaw off a right aileron command. The 'real' Tiger Moth had virtually no down-going aileron throw at all, while the upgoing went a long way. In fact, what downgoing throw it had actually started to reduce as the upgoing reached its maximum throw. I'd not fly a scale bipe of this era with anywhere near symmetrical up and down aileron - would arrange for 25% down / 75% up at least, and have flown scale models with more, with success.

And they look superb with all those control wires flapping around in the breeze (actually, they vibrate thanks to the engine!), just like the real thing.

Hope that helps

Dereck

Geoff_Gino
09-14-2006, 06:39 AM
Hi Dereck

I am going to regret metioning this, but - as we have seen in this thread there is lot going on about the left torque on this particular model. Mine crashed on it's second flight and it took an extra 3mm of right thrust and 100 grams of weight to the nose to get to the point where it is now easier to control and everyone has remarked on how good it looks in the air.

However, in packing my car last weekend I had the bottom wing lying on top of the top wing with the spar rods connected and to my horror noticed that wings are not symmetrical. The top right wing is swept back an extra 25mm in respect to the bottom wing and is in no way symmetrical above the bottom wing.

Assembled the plane at home and had a good look at the symmetry of the wings, cabane and even though the spar rods are parrallel there is a definite problem with the top right wing which is not lining up correctly.

Perhaps Mike would like to confirm this and if Piperfan would be so kind as to see how Hobby Lobby's wings are for symmetry.

Of course mine is flying at the moment and I am trying to avoid major surgery to the top wing.

Dereck
09-14-2006, 02:48 PM
Sweepback being a somewhat less effective form of dihedral, that is not good...

Only way out, unless you can fudge the wing around, involves serious rebuilding - tricky without a plan.

These things are built on low tech jigs - anything like a CAD/CAM manufactured jig is going to cost money, and spending on suchlike doesn't strike me as a popular occupation where these things are knocked out. Chances are, there's more than one jig for each operation. Thus perhaps not all models from the same source will have this fault - just the ones that came off that defective jig.

You could call the factory and let them know - I bet they'd be delighted to hear from you, correct their faulty tooling and fly you over for a factory tour and a free lunch while they sort you out a good model :rolleyes:

Fussing at the importer or supplier might be easier though...

Haven't built a bipe in a long while - but they are real so-and-so's to get the rigging and alignment correct. Still, you're lucky enough to have the nounce to spot this and do something about it. How many got sold to folk who didn't understand 'alignment' or 'rigging' and stuffed them in on their first take off?

I keep telling myself I should at least try one ready-made to see what the fuss is about (I don't think the Wingo and Twinstar count - they have glue joints all over the place!), but the more I read places like this, the less I'm inclined to lay out hobby money on something I am only going to be unhappy about.

Regards

Dereck

Geoff_Gino
09-14-2006, 03:35 PM
Dereck

Top wing surgery will happen in due course. I am attending an annual scale fly in from 9/22 to 9/25 and rest assured it will be tackled.

Can't find Green R/C website.

dimadee
09-14-2006, 11:16 PM
Hi Geoff,

Green RC Models website is http://www.greenmodel.com

Piperfan
09-15-2006, 01:38 AM
I am going to the NEAT fair on Saturday. I will bring this up with any modelers I speak to. Hopefully there will be some tasty treats there for the eyes and perhaps a new addition to the hanger.

Geoff_Gino
09-15-2006, 06:25 AM
I am going to the NEAT fair on Saturday. I will bring this up with any modelers I speak to. Hopefully there will be some tasty treats there for the eyes and perhaps a new addition to the hanger.

Looking forward to hearing from you on Monday.

Geoff_Gino
09-15-2006, 06:25 AM
Hi Geoff,

Green RC Models website is http://www.greenmodel.com

Thanks Tim.

Geoff_Gino
09-15-2006, 08:41 AM
Tim

Thanks for that link. E-mailed Alex and had a reply within the hour with a promise that he will look into my problem and check with the factory floor.

Sounds very sincere.

Geoff_Gino
09-18-2006, 08:42 AM
Hi All

Alex from Green Model requested some pics of my problem wing which I have sent.

Mike and Piperfan have you guys been able to look at your top to bottom wing alignment? If so please let me know what your thoughts are.

dimadee
10-06-2006, 03:39 AM
Just a quick follow on from an earlier post I made, the first shipment of e-Tiger Moths from Green RC Models has landed, and were all sold before arrival. The electric versions have a brushless motor mount and battery tray as per the Hoby Lobby kit.

I will be ordering another shipment based on orders, so if anyone in Australia or New Zealand would like one, please contact me so you can reserve your colour scheme. The sell for A$240.

I also bought in the Tiny Tiger Moth and Butterfly kits. The build quality of these kits is equally as impressive!

I really am enjoying this thread - any updates or flight reports anyone?

Geoff_Gino
10-06-2006, 06:31 AM
Hi Tim

I would really be interested in seeing how the top and bottom wings line up with your new shipment.

Been speaking to Green R/C and they have admitted that my top wing is out of alignment but have not done anything about it.

Dereck
10-07-2006, 03:49 AM
Geoff
That is incredibly bad. A quarter inch - maybe - that much mis-alignment is just bad. Bad design, bad parts engineering, bad construction jig - you name it, I cannot believe how bad it is.

Any company with any pride would have a new set of wings to you - wings that are properly built - scrap that offending jig and track down all other buyers to replace their wings / models and make good their losses.

From that end of the world?

Fat chance.

Would like to be proven wrong...

Dereck

dimadee
10-07-2006, 04:34 AM
Hi Geoff,

I checked the wings last night - 1 wing set has a bit more sweep back than the other, but they are symmetrical and parallel. I guess that is good for me (& my customer), but it doesn't make you feel much better. :(

Geoff_Gino
10-09-2006, 09:42 AM
Hi Tim

Guess you can say that I am relieved for you and your customers and that the problem was only a 1 off.
Your'e right about the sweep - the top wing does have more than the bottom, but in equal amounts.

Hi Mike

Green R/C seem to have given up on me. From appearing to be quite friendly and helpful it has gone to 'dead silent'.

Think I'll post them a link to this thread and see what comes up.
Thanks

dimadee
10-10-2006, 03:13 AM
Green R/C seem to have given up on me. From appearing to be quite friendly and helpful it has gone to 'dead silent'.

Think I'll post them a link to this thread and see what comes up.
Thanks

Geoff,

I have already done so on your behalf (hoping I can add some 'momentum') :D

Geoff_Gino
10-10-2006, 06:25 AM
Thanks Tim

No answer yet I'll give them another 'wake up' today.

Geoff_Gino
10-10-2006, 08:11 AM
Seems like they have their holiday period at this time. Alex has responded saying that that they are back and I should get a reply shortly.

Ram1500
10-18-2006, 11:58 PM
Need advice... I just finished the HL version with the following motor and speed controller.

E-Flite Power 25 outrunner
11x5.5 APC prop,
E-Flite 40A ESC

The plane barely has any power for take off and flying. Good thing it was a calm evening... Also my Apogee 2100mah battery pack was very hot at the end of the flight. Also I get the feeling the CG is too nose heavy because I had to use almost full elevator to get off the ground after an excessively long roll out. I tried slow flight at altitutude and found at reduced power I could fly at full elevator and the plane would just sink. Any suggestions on the motor set up?

Otherwise its a beauty in the air.

thanks in advance.

dimadee
10-19-2006, 01:23 AM
Hi Ram500,

I think you have 2 issues - I will address them seperately.

Battery

The fact that you LiPo is so hot suggests that it is operating close to it's current limit. A couple of questions.....

Do you know what current your setup is pulling?
What current is your pack rated at?
Are you using a 3S or 4S pack?Running 2 packs in parallel would reduce the load on each pack significantly, and also improve performance noticeably (as well as run time). Twmaster (post #1) is running a 3S2P 3400mAh pack in his.

Propellor

The 11x5.5 prop recommended by Hobby Lobby works fine with the Axi 2820/10 motor, as it is a 1200kV motor. The Power 25 motor is only rated at 870kV, so this motor will not spin the 11x5.5 prop fast enough to be effective. The recommended prop range for the Power 25 is 11x8 to 14x7. Twmaster is using an 11x8 prop on his Tiggie, so that would be an excellent place to start.

If you address these 2 items, you should have plenty of Tiger in your Moth!! :D :D

Hope this helps.

Ram1500
10-19-2006, 02:27 AM
Dimadee,

Thanks for the quick reply, I will admit that I'm not fully equipped for electric flight. If I'm going to stick with electrics than I'll need to get a watt meter or something. I don't know what kind of current I'm drawing. I'm using 3sp and the Apogee is rated at 10.5C (22.8A) continuous. I do have another pack that I could hook up in parallel.

Not sure I understand the prop though. The 11 x 5.5 has less pitch than a 11 x 8, shouln'd the 11 x 5.5 spin faster?

Thanks again, I'm still learning electrics....

Power planes I have no problem, been flying over 20 years, go figure!

Gus

dimadee
10-19-2006, 03:26 AM
Hi Gus,

The set up you have would be pulling more than 22A I expect (I wish I had my copy of MotoCalc at work!). If your other pack is exactly the same spec (i.e. Apogee 2100mAh 10.5C) then it will be fine to hook up in parallel. If they are different packs, please don't hook them up together. I generally ony run to 75% of the maximum constant capacity of a LiPo pack to ensure longevity and performance. For your pack, that would be 17 amps (double that if you have 2 packs in parallel).

To make your plane fly it needs a combination of thrust and pitch speed. The Power 25 spins substantially slower then the Axi motor (870 rpm per volt vs 1200 rpm per volt), so it is developing less thrust, but more importantly, at a much lower rpm. Combine this with a low pitch prop, and the pitch speed is very low.

Heaps of thrust with no speed is perfect for 3D planes that want to hover, and heaps of pitch speed with less thrust is great for high speed racers, but in this case you need a balance of both. As a general rule, the pitch speed needs to be 2.5 to 3 times the stall speed of the aircraft.

A Watt Meter would be an excellent investment if you plan to stick with electrics.

Ram1500
10-19-2006, 03:37 AM
Tim, thanks a bunch, makes sense...

Tomorrow I'll be looking into a watt meter... So far I've been flying a E-flite mini funtana with stock set up (no hassle, fly's great), Hobby Lobby F-86 Sable with stock set up (no hassle, fly's awesome - not a bullet but plenty of fun), my "need for speed" days are long behind me....

I love scale modeling, the HL Tiger is such a beautifull done example of a Tiger Moth. Especially the functional rigging and controls. The plane, even on the smaller scale at 50", presents well in the air. Looking forward to dialing everything in and getting a lot of enjoyment out of it.

I guess this is how I'll learn more about electrics, deviate from the recommended set up.

Gus

dimadee
10-19-2006, 08:51 AM
Hi Gus,

I plugged some numbers into MotoCalc tonight and have attached the results in the zipped (html) file. I have assumed you have 3S packs, and have used 20C LiPo cells for the calculation.

The first column is the Hobby Lobby power system to use as a baseline. The next 2 columns show the Power 25 running a single 11x5.5 and 11x7, and as you can see it would be pushing your batteries beyond their practical limit, hence the toasty warm feeling. You can also see why your Tiger was struggling to fly with the 11x5.5 when you look at the rate of climb number, and it confirms that the 11x7 would be much better.

The next 4 columns show what happens with 2 packs in parallel - the voltage, current and power all increase, and the load on each pack is much less (it will be 1/2 of the total current). You can now see that the 11x7 does a pretty good job, and the 11x8 and 11x8.5 will give you a bit more for a few extra amps. I would expect that with the 11x8 and 11x8.5 props you would be mooching around quite happily on 65-75% throttle.

Obviously this is only a prediction, and real world testing will help you find the result that suits you. You also have the option to go to 4S with this motor if you wanted more in the future! :cool:

Ram1500
10-19-2006, 02:27 PM
Thanks Tim,

This really gives me something to work with..... Appreciate all your help

Gus

dimadee
10-19-2006, 10:57 PM
Gus,

Please let us know how it goes.

Ram1500
10-20-2006, 12:04 AM
Well, tonight on the way home I picked up the Astro flight Super Whatt meter, 2 x 2100 Thunder power 3sp packs and an 11 x 8 apc prop. I will measure actual performance with the original set up as a basis for my comparison.

My only concern now is that I noticed the TP packs are rated at 15C continuous. Not sure if I should take them back before I open them....

dimadee
10-20-2006, 12:18 AM
Hi Gus,

The 15C rating equates to 2.1A x 15 = 31.5A continuous (2100mA = 2.1A).

Apply a safety factor.......75% x 31.5A = 23.6A.

If you then double this for the 2 packs in parallel, that gives you 47 amps continuous.

You're laughing!! :D

(Sorry if I sound like your Maths teacher!)

Ram1500
10-20-2006, 12:48 AM
I think I just figured the same thing out..... your 20C example just threw me off a bit. Lessons in electric flight!

Once the kids are in bed and the Mets are playing, I'll be soldering away.....

this might be a ligitimate stupid question... with a Y harness, can I charge both packs in parralel at the same time? I use a triton charger

dimadee
10-20-2006, 01:31 AM
Gus,

Good question. Importantly, when you connect 2 packs in parallel, they need to be at a similar level of charge (e.g. both fully charged), as they will balance their voltages off against each other. In an extreme example, if one pack is flat and the other fully charged, the full pack will charge the flat pack until they are both at the same voltage, but with an unrestricted current flow, it would all get very warm and you would probably have a thermal incident :eek:

Once the packs are connected in parallel, they will effectively act as one, so you can charge them as a single pack at up to 1C, which would be 4.2A (2 x 2.1A) in this case. If you are making your own parallel connector, you need to make sure that the wire is heavy enough to flow the combined current of both packs.

Beofore connecting them however, I would strongly recommend charging and balancing each pack individually. Do you have a LiPo balancer? If you don't, you can balance them manually, but it will take a while.

To balance manually you will need a charge lead with a female servo connector on it. You slice off the plastic sheath to reveal the 2 pins, which just happen to be the same spacing as LiPo balancer plugs. You can then charge each LiPo cell individually. It is not as accurate as a balancer, but it is better than no balancing at all!

Ram1500
10-20-2006, 03:02 PM
Here are some actual figures from last night.

Common elements: Eflite 25 outrunner and 40am esc

(4 scenarios)

1.
Apogee 2,070 3sp 10.6C (single pack)
11x5.5 apc prop
20 amps
200 watts
7900 rpm (digital tach)

2.
Apogee 2,070 3sp 10.6C (single pack)
11x8 apc prop
22 amps
200 watts
7200 rpm

3.
Thunder Power 2,100 3sp 15C x 2 (parallel)
11x5.5 apc prop
26 amps
300 watts
8900 rpm

4.
Thunder Power 2,100 2sp 15C x 2 (parallel)
11x8 apc prop
33 amps
375 watts
8300 rpm

A big jump in amps between 3 and 4. I'll see what the difference will be in actuall flight this weekend.

Tim, thanks again for all your help. Let me know your thoughts on these figures.

Gus

dimadee
10-21-2006, 01:52 AM
Hi Gus,

Although the actual current values vary a bit, the relative difference is pretty well just as MotoCalc predicted. The single packs are being pushed past their practical limits, and as a result the voltage drops off and along with it the power.

The higher rated parallel Thunder Power packs are able to flow more current because they are not working very hard (16.5A each with 11x8 prop = 8C), so the rpm, voltage and power are much higher. This should give you a huge difference in flight performance! I love it when a plan comes together!!

Another thing I always do is to sand the leading edge of my props with some fine (800 or higher) wet&dry sandpaper. Prop blades are actually airfoils, and there is always a small feather of plastic left along the leading edge where the mould joins. If you sand this off so the leading edge feels smooth with your fingers, I find the prop will be quieter, and therefore more efficient.

I look forward to a flight report!

By the way Gus, where are you from?

Ram1500
10-21-2006, 05:42 AM
I'm from Pompton lakes, New Jersey. About 30 minutes west of New York City. Actually I just got home from there a few minutes ago. Beautiful cool night in the city...

I'll follow up with actual flight performance, hopefully this weekend.

Thanks again
Gus

Ram1500
10-23-2006, 04:30 PM
I flew the Tiger this weekend with the new battery and prop set up and, 2x2100 TP lipos, 11x8apc. WOW what a difference. I also moved the cg back about .75inch. Flew with much authority, 50%-60% throttle setting was plenty for straight and level flight. No problems with loops from straight and level. Rolls and point rolls looked great. Inverted flight was hands off, no pitch change. Full power up to a stall turn, very nice....

So far I'm really enjoy this plane.....

Nobert
10-23-2006, 05:18 PM
Gus,
Where did your CG end up?
Thanks,
Neal

Twmaster
10-23-2006, 06:10 PM
Ram that is really great news. I have been stalled on my Tiggie as I have been kinda burned out on planes and very short on time the last 6 months or so.

I'm glad to see that a little changing of the prop and power set did it for you. I'll try to get mine down off the shelf and get some work done shortly. I -hope- it can be ready for spring as it is beginning to get cold here and I'll likely suspend flying until spring.

Ram1500
10-23-2006, 06:55 PM
Gus,
Where did your CG end up?
Thanks,
Neal


I will take an exact measurement when I get home tonight and let you know.

dimadee
10-23-2006, 11:36 PM
I flew the Tiger this weekend with the new battery and prop set up and, 2x2100 TP lipos, 11x8apc. WOW what a difference. I also moved the cg back about .75inch. Flew with much authority, 50%-60% throttle setting was plenty for straight and level flight. No problems with loops from straight and level. Rolls and point rolls looked great. Inverted flight was hands off, no pitch change. Full power up to a stall turn, very nice....

So far I'm really enjoy this plane.....


Hi Gus,

I am glad to hear that it worked out so well!

Ram1500
10-24-2006, 02:15 AM
Gus,
Where did your CG end up?
Thanks,
Neal


Actual measurement from leading edge back is 4.5" with the plane level (no nose down attitude). This cg is actually at the aft mark of the recommended cg in the manual. Guess I was way off initially for some reason.

thanks
Gus

Nobert
10-24-2006, 05:12 AM
Gus,
Thanks for the measurement. My MaxAmps batteries should arrive tomorrow. I'm using a BM3520 on 4S1P driving an APC 12x8. I'll balance per your recommendation. MC says 16MPH stall at 73oz. 400 Watts in 30Amps at 13.6V. Should be quite a performer. Most likely using 1/2 throttle most of the time.
Neal

green127045
11-07-2006, 07:43 PM
What has been the average flight time with 4200 mAh Li-Po batteries???? I will have the Hobby-Lobby version under the x-mas tree and wondering if I will need a bigger battery???? 5000 mAh???

Thanks

James

Geoff_Gino
11-08-2006, 05:33 AM
Flying my Green R/C with a 3,2 amp pack and getting 7 minute flights with about 20% in the tank when I land.

Piperfan
11-08-2006, 01:38 PM
With 2 TP 11.1v 2100mha packs in series I have been averaging about 8-9 minutes. I am changing to a Hyperion 14.8v 3300 pack soon. I will have to rework the battery compartment to accomodate the larger pack. I have figured this packs dimensions as the one that will fit without to much modification to the nose/firewall. Upping the voltage and will boost rpms, lower amperage draw and hopefully give longer flight times some were in the 12 to 13 minute range.

Ram1500
12-17-2006, 02:34 AM
If anyone is interested in this beauty, I'm planning to part with it. No reason why other than moving to other projects. Immaculate condition, will try to post pics.

Gus

Ram1500
12-18-2006, 01:51 AM
Here's a link to pics.

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/Recfsh/Tiger%20Moth/

ready to fly less receiver and one of two 2100 lip packs

$300 bucks.

thanks

dpaul
12-18-2006, 03:08 PM
I'm interested. Could you please list the installed components (servos, ESC, motor)? Also, does your price include shipping? (Boston MA 02445)

DP

Ram1500
12-19-2006, 04:08 AM
DP,

HS 81's on ailerons and I believe HS85's on rudder and elevator (don't want to take wing off unless I have to) The flying wires are all functional.

E-flite 25 outrunner motor
E-flite 40 amp speed controller
APC 11x8 prop
1 - 2100 TP lipo battey, also comes with a y harness to run 2 packs parallel
base mounted antenna

I'll include shipping in that price

Thanks

willyb
12-21-2006, 02:04 PM
I am in the final stages of assembly of a Hobby Lobby Elec. version of the Tiger Moth. Does anyone know the wing incidences of this plane? As mine is assembled with the horizontal stab at 0 degrees the lower wing is also at 0 degrees. Each lower wingtip has about 1-2 degrees washout. The upper wing is about 1/2 degree negative incidence to the lower wing. There is no wash out in the upper wing. I imagine this is close enough as I understand that some acrobatic bipes have neg. incidence in the upper wing; better inverted flight I guess. Any thoughts re incidence and wash out for bipes would be appreciated. I haven't tightened up my flying wires yet.

Thanks for the help.

Bill

(The Fly R/C review on this plane said they were able to assemble it in 4 hours???? Was anyone else able to do it that fast?)

Solid Hit
01-24-2007, 05:10 PM
I just took delivery of Gus' (Ram1500) TM. I am not sure what I expected but this thing is beautiful. I've got a pair of 2200 16c lipos coming for it so I should have it in the air this weekend.

Aside from the difference in batteries I'm using Gus' setup. Any comments on what to expect?

Dr Hair
01-30-2007, 10:12 PM
I also have the Green Models TM with a Mega Motors 22/30/3E inrunner, 12x8 APC, 4S1P 3900 lipos and I've found flight to be problematic!

Initially, I tried 8 cell NiMhs from a very smooth grass strip and flight was achieved but very underpowered. No problem with ground turning/looping. That first flight ended crashing into a tree because the controls were very twitchy. But no damage done!

Subsequent flights included a low stall from attempting take off too soon (still underpowered NiMhs). More serious repairs needed.

A recent flight with the lipos was nearly great - even with longer wet grass, the ROG was easy, some ground looping controlled by rudder and off! - Straight into another very steep climb, threatening a stall.

Fortunately, the new power from the lipos kept it going and I throttled off/levelled off at quite some height. The controls were still way too twitchy but useable but every time power was increased, the bird kept going vertical. A few unintended loops later, I throttled right back and brought her in for a perfect slow landing!! Adrenaline euphoria!!

From this, I have learnt:

Short grass, hard surface is best for ROG
Very susceptible to rearward COG - I gather this type of plane naturally ascends with greater power and wrong COG worsens this into a potential stall
Lipos are best but need to go far forward as lesser weight causes COG problems
Reduce throws on control surfaces or add lots of exponential
12x8 too big and flies too fast but is needed to ROG in long grass. Smooth tarmac would be fine for smaller props.

Next time - a perfect flight

Solid Hit
01-31-2007, 12:25 PM
Sounds like you may need some down thrust. If she flies well until you pour on the throttle, that is a good indicator. If she if flying slightly nose up, you may still be a little tail heavy.

It's been too windy to maiden her (new to me anyway) so I can't say how typical that is.

One question about the bottom wing, at the root, my wing has a gap at the leading edge. In other words it is not flush against the fuselage. How about yours?

Dr Hair
01-31-2007, 09:00 PM
No more downthrust needed - I've already put in extra right and downthrust on top of the inbuilt thrust lines - quite visibly so. I'm sure it is partly the natural flying tendency plus not putting the lipos quite as forward as needed - right up against the cowl. I do not want to add lead if possible. Afterall, the much heavier NiMhs didn't seem to have a COG problem, just the controls were a bit twitchy for a too windy day on a maiden flight and nearby trees!
Having read the earlier thread about build quality, I've checked it over and it's all spot on - no gaps, all square and symmetrical.
I love the looks and I'm sure the next flight will be fantastic (so long as the grass is dry and gets cut!!).

PS I think the difference in COG depends on what the correct angle should be ie the tail should be up at COG, not the fuselage level. This subtle difference will be enough to cause my problems, particularly with the extra power available with 4S lipos. Probably less critical with heavy NiMhs and less power. My motor is only 230g but can put out 700w (averages about 350w on Wattmeter) which is enough for my 4 1/2 lb TM (with lipo). With NiMh (220g heavier), I struggled to get over 300w max. Obviously, 700w is enough for near vertical performance but it's unlikely to actually achieve that in flight. Also, I didn't use full throttle during the flight nor used elevator to go vertical - it just started climbing steeply, not going faster horizontally.

I'm sure an IC engine plus fuel must weigh more and further forward than my initial lipo set up.

Dr Hair
02-03-2007, 10:34 PM
Aaaarrrggghhh!
Total wipeout!!
Some electronic glitch took over and threw the TM to earth. At speed. I'm just amazed there is anything left- fuselage is pretty well (perfectly) intact except motor mount but 3 out of 4 wing halves have got major (just possibly repairable) damage.
The annoying thing is, it took a couple of goes to ROG but it was off the ground OK and flying at speed and level with good height, when suddenly it turned over and headed straight for the ground. Nothing to do with me. Just when I thought I'd sorted the COG. Definitely a gremlin, not pilot error!
The only good thing about converting heavily built IC models, is that they survive crashing better.

Twmaster
02-04-2007, 10:26 PM
I'm never going to finish mine. I just don't have the time or interest any longer. :( (heh and I started this thread too...)

--
Mike N

Solid Hit
02-06-2007, 12:24 AM
Sorry to hear about that - Dr. Hair AND Twmaster.

I'm still waiting to maiden mine. The wind has been terrible.

I plugged all the info I have into Motor Cal and although Ram1500 had success using an 11x8 E prop, Motor Cal said that it is a 97% combo. They recommended using a 13x8 E instead which is a 100% match so I'm going to go with that for its first flight. Hopefully the wind will hold down this weekend (or maybe Wednesday).

Solid Hit
02-06-2007, 08:47 PM
Holy mackerel! I just put a watt meter on the 13x8 setup and my watts jumped from 300 using the 11x8 to about 450 with the larger prop.

Dr Hair
02-06-2007, 11:06 PM
Shame about your build Twmaster - I'm glad you started the thread as I've learnt a lot about getting this plane off the ground!
Wattmeters are essential in electrics - I don't know how I coped without it.
The good news is the wings should be repairable - most of the wings are intact but the roots shredded. My only worry is making the repairs strong enough (but not too heavy) for them to cope with flight or reasonably heavy landings.
Good luck with the maiden!

Twmaster
02-07-2007, 02:54 AM
The truth is I've kind of lost interest in the entire hobby. Just haven't been having much fun with the planes. Anyways, I am going to sell this one and a lot of others I have. I was going to just leave the hobby but I think I'll just go slow this year and only concentrate on a few models.

--
Mike N

Solid Hit
02-08-2007, 07:45 PM
OK, after some more static testing I've decided to stay with the 11x8 due to the amp draw of the 13x8. I may go to a 12x8 e since that is what is called for on the e-flight Cub 25 which weighs about the same and has the same power system.

Any opinions?

Dr Hair
02-10-2007, 10:10 PM
I found 12x8 was needed for grass but 11x8 fine for hard surfaces.
I've got the Eflite cub too.
Just crashed both, in the middle of fixing them!

Solid Hit
02-10-2007, 11:47 PM
Sorry to hear that Dr., I'll be maidening one of them tomorrow (I can't fit both in my SUV along with everything else I will be bringing to the field). Most likely the Cub. What problem did you have with the Cub?

Dr Hair
02-11-2007, 10:23 AM
The Cub was my fault - the direction of ROG was towards the low winter sun and as the plane flew across the sun, I got disorientated. By the time my eyes adjusted and the plane passed the sun, it was heading for the deck. It went straight in - the nose crumpled completely but everything is literally perfect behind the cabin windshield.
So, rebuilding the nose isn't proving too difficult. My only concern is that it is difficult to judge the angles for downthrust and right thrust and there is no data on that in the instructions.

Solid Hit
02-11-2007, 11:35 PM
Well I ended up maidening both the Cub and the TM. The Cub flew like a .... well, like a Cub. No trim necessary and flew very scale. Landing took several attempts because of her glide - in fact I took the top 6" off a 30' Cedar tree on her last pass to the runway. Never phased the Cub a bit.

The TM will need a little more right thrust because I had to put in more right aileron that I liked but otherwise she is a very nice flier. I'm also going to go up one size on the prop to give just a little more power. She flew OK on 3/4 throttle but more power is the right thing. Landing was uneventful but a little long. She glides in easily and stable as long as she has a little power.

All-in-all a great day for both planes.

Geoff_Gino
02-13-2007, 05:28 AM
Hi Geoff G

Found those pics I wanted and here they are:

Twmaster
02-25-2007, 04:07 AM
Somebody asked me via PM about the pictures that are missing from this post. Since for whatever reason I cannot go back and edit my posts to add the photos I thought I would do so now. Hopefully these are helpful to somebody.

In the first photo this is how she comes in the box.

Second photo is the tail bolted on. I didn't like the way the control horns went together.

Third is my method of motor mounting. The aluminum stands are made from 1/4" OD thick wall tube from K&S and have a 50MM long 3MM screw through sandwiching the motor mount, tube, washers and firewall backed with blind nuts.

In my opinion this is an OK model for an ARF. It suffers from what I call 'Greenisms' in that it has deficiencies that are just plain stupid and lazy on the part of the designers. For example many of the screws holding things like the windscreens on just screw into the balsa sheeting. I have seen this same stupidity on other Green Models planes.

Old Fart
06-07-2007, 09:19 PM
Let's see if anyone is still watching this thread :)

I'm considering one of these - but want to power it with a Feigao 28mm/4750kV motor and a gearbox (left over from my first GP Combat Corsair). Looking at MotoCalc, it should work fine on 2S (I have several 4000mah 2S laying around)

Opinions? I know an outrunner would be superior, but I'm tired of using this motor as a paperweight :)

Saucerguy2
06-07-2007, 11:54 PM
Somebody asked me via PM about the pictures that are missing from this post. Since for whatever reason I cannot go back and edit my posts to add the photos I thought I would do so now. Hopefully these are helpful to somebody.

In the first photo this is how she comes in the box.

Second photo is the tail bolted on. I didn't like the way the control horns went together.

Third is my method of motor mounting. The aluminum stands are made from 1/4" OD thick wall tube from K&S and have a 50MM long 3MM screw through sandwiching the motor mount, tube, washers and firewall backed with blind nuts.

In my opinion this is an OK model for an ARF. It suffers from what I call 'Greenisms' in that it has deficiencies that are just plain stupid and lazy on the part of the designers. For example many of the screws holding things like the windscreens on just screw into the balsa sheeting. I have seen this same stupidity on other Green Models planes.

I have three of their planes, they do vary in quality, but yeah, don't get married to how it's set up stock or you will run into trouble since there are certain elements as you mention, mainly mounting ones that need revision to work properly. Keep an eye on those screws and bolts, they are the first thing to loosen up and/or break away.

Old Fart
06-08-2007, 09:58 PM
Added the weights up just now - the Feigao/Cobri combo is within .3oz of the recommended Axi outrunner. Unless someone comes up with a "sky id falling" reason not to run the gearbox - I think I'll order a 50" TM on Monday :)

Twmaster
05-24-2008, 12:48 AM
Thread rebirth!!

For the last year or so the Tiggie has been sitting on the top shelf of my book case mocking me and making snide remarks to my cat about me...

Alright. Fine. I'll finish the darned thing. Teach it to talk dirty about me!

Anyhoo... If any of you folks are still watching this thread I'll see if I can remember to post some pics along the way.

I'm off all weekend so I should be able to get some progress on her.

As I mentioned waaaaaay back in this thread I really dislike that 'pull-pull' system. One of you folks were going to post some close up pics of your crimp jobs.

So, if ya could please post them.

Thanks.

firemanbill
05-24-2008, 01:07 AM
Hey Mike glad to hear you're gonna get her done! Mason has the Green Models 50" Jenny. Here is a a couple shots of the pull wires on his. They are not too terribly difficult to do, pretty easy actually.

Twmaster
05-24-2008, 01:15 AM
Bill that's exactly the data I needed. The setup is the same on this Moth.

Thanks a ton. Time to eat some chinese foo then get cracking. I -will- have this ready for our scale event this June. (You are coming right?) ;)

firemanbill
05-24-2008, 01:20 AM
Good deal! glad I could help you out bud.:D

As of right now we are planning too. If we can afford it, fuel is just getting absolutely ridiculous now... don't have to tell you that though huh?:blah:

And just what it Chinese foo?::o;-)

Twmaster
05-24-2008, 01:36 AM
What did you use as a crimper tool for that Bill?

I hear ya about fuel. Diesel is killing my business right now. :mad:

firemanbill
05-24-2008, 01:40 AM
I just used a standard wire crimper and used the very end of it to mash them completely flat.

I made three crimps each, either end and in the middle. I doubt they will ever come apart...:cool:

Piperfan
05-24-2008, 02:04 AM
Some pics of my Tigy. Redid the markings to British Military trainer circles. Also put a 60 amp ESC with Castle BEC. Flys like a dream. I put larger cub wheels on it so grass is no problem.

firemanbill
05-24-2008, 02:05 AM
That's a good looking bird there Piperfan.:cool:

Twmaster
05-25-2008, 07:03 AM
Wowowow!! That is one sharp looking Tiggie Piperfan!

Bill thanks for the tips and photos on the crimps for the 'pull-pull' system. I have my elevator wires adjusted as close as possible and crimped now. This and a problem with an aileron binding were two of the things that were frustrating me enough to stop assembly last time.

Thankfully I have overcome both thanks to you and a flying buddy I had dinner with.

I've got the wings mostly assembled and am trying to finish all the fiddly little bits on the fuse before I get any further.

I think the flying wires through the struts and cabanes are going to be a royal PITA though.

Twmaster
05-26-2008, 07:07 AM
And even more progress today. Installed the tail wheel, cut the firewall to make the battery tray. Will make the other parts later this week. I'm expecting to be in Harry Homeowner work mode all day tomorrow.

She's starting to come together. I'm finally over my dislikes of this ARF kit.

Piperfan
05-27-2008, 01:04 AM
One recent upgrade I made and glad of it was to use a Sullivan flying wire kit. I found the original kit to be very difficult to adjust the brass threaded pieces in the cleves. You can get them to adjust about half way then bind up. Don't know whats going on there. With the Sullivan, I layed out the wire to lenth, then run the wire thru the threaded adjustment ends and placed a small blob of silver solder to the end of the wire. This allows for full adjustment with freedom of no binding. The technique is layed out in the instructions of the Sullivan flying wire kit. Its not to hard to do and with a little practice generates a very nice effect. The metal wire adds some weight over the kevlar thread (included in the wire kit) but is easier to work with. Will post some pics when I fiqure out a problem with my digital camera. I bet theres a forum for that!

Twmaster
05-27-2008, 01:50 AM
One change I am going to make is to go with a smaller diameter prop and a 4S2P lipo with my goal of propping her for ~35A WOT. That would make ~500W which should be more than enough to get this Tiggie off terra firma.

pogoed
05-27-2008, 11:24 PM
Here's my version, from Hobby-Lobby- about 15 flights thus far and loving it. She flies equally well with either the 3s 3300 or 4000, propped for about 32A. WOT (10x5). This is my 2nd plane- the first being a Hobbyzone super-cub- and though there HAVE been a few moments it's getting easier and more relaxing with each flight. I read this thread avidly before and during the build so thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge! I'm also happy to see some current postings- let's keep it going.

Tom

Twmaster
05-28-2008, 04:57 AM
Welcome to WattFlyer Pogoed!

That is one sharp looking Tiggie! Are you using the recommended motor from Hobby Lobby? Also where did you get the pilot figure?

pogoed
05-28-2008, 10:58 PM
Thanks TW! Yes, motor's the AXI 2820/10 they sell with the combo, though the recommended 11x5.5 prop was just wrong (drawing way over 40 A. static), as were a few other things .
To achieve the correct C.G., I removed the front of the battery box- the pack now sits as far forward as the front of the motor. To change packs, I pull the prop and the cowl (now held on with magnets). This was easier than flipping the plane over and trying to shoehorn the battery through the cross-bracing on the landing gear. Actually, now that I've modified the landing gear-canted it forward to reduce the nose-over tendencies- loading a pack through the lower hatch is impossible anyway.
The pilot figure, "Reggie" we call him, came from http://www.hppilots.com/_mgxroot/page_10731.html
(he's a 1/7 "Mike-Dawn Patrol").
Tom

Twmaster
06-22-2008, 04:46 AM
Just a status report here.

I hate this plane. I quit working on it before as I hated it and simply tried to work my way through and around the things I disliked.

Well I just can't stand this thing and work is yet again at a stand still. Every time I begin to try to do anything to it it just makes me mad as hell and I have to stop.

I'll likely just remove the gear from it and jump up and down on it....

Nobert
06-22-2008, 05:33 AM
Mike
Before you jump up and down on it send it to me I could used the spare parts for mine.
Thanks,
Neal

Twmaster
06-22-2008, 05:44 AM
Mike
Before you jump up and down on it send it to me I could used the spare parts for mine.
Thanks,
Neal

That would rob me of the warm fuzzy feeling. After all the misery of working on this POS I *WANT* some pleasure out of this pile of crap.

Nobert
06-22-2008, 01:13 PM
Mike
Save me the cowl.
Neal

dimadee
06-22-2008, 02:33 PM
Mike,

Hang in there. It will all be worth it when you are doing a scale (slow) fly by. It looks so sweet when it's wheels are off the ground!

Piperfan
06-22-2008, 06:03 PM
If don't want it, Ship it to me. I'll finish it. I have 30 or more flights on mine and it is one of my favorite planes. Or, tell us what you having trouble with and perhaps we can guide you thru it. It took me some time and a redue on the battery box to come up with a suitable solution that gave me the battery capacity and retained all standard lines I had hoped for. Now this plane performs excellently and wow's the crowd every flight. The control wires are a tricky bit but once done, you will have a really scale model. Lets face it, its not a E-Flite out of the box arf. But thats the beauty of it. Once you build the skills and come up with solutions on this one, you want to try your hand at another model that will require similar if not different abilities that will come in handy. If you decide to sell it. let me know.

Saucerguy2
06-23-2008, 07:46 PM
If you do decide to destroy it, please take it apart by hand, taking note as to what is glued together and what's simply resting in place. I did that with a couple of green's models and found out that only part of the thing actually was glued together, this was causing alot of the control issues as well as the horrible esc's causing glitches, of which ended up in the dumpster. I look forward to the report, it's an ARF, not a kit or scratch, they are a dime a dozen.

Piperfan
07-03-2008, 01:17 PM
Selling a second Tiggy that I purchased with my yellow one. This one is RTF with one test flight. It flys as good as the first. Set is E-Flite Power 25 swinging a 11X7 APC E prop, Cyclone 50 ESC, Castle BEC, inline on/off switch, Hitec HS225MG in wings, JR standards in fuse, Dubro 1/5 scale cub wheels, Sullivan flying wires, Hobby lobby hatch latch, custom battery box, custom paint, pilot figure painted. Uses 2 2100mha 11.1v batterys in parallel for 10 to 12 minute flights. Did I mention how great this plane flys? It is spectacular. Prefer local delivery within 75 to 100 miles of 12180. Add your receiver and fly. I recommend a computor radio for proper setup of differentail ailerons.

07/14/2008 this plane has sold to a lucky pilot in California.

spudandcat
08-13-2008, 08:26 AM
hiya fellas ,

i just picked up one of these little fellas secondhand , for au$60..

so i'm pretty happy. it has a bit of damage to the wing covering ( a cat walked on the wing! ) and a couple of broken struts (easily refabricated )
it appears to be missing the wing rigging tho , can one of you nice guys post a nice snap of the wing rigging so i can copy it? i can sort of see it in the above pictures but its just a bit low res, or even a electronic copy of the manual .. might be a while before i get her going as i've got plenty of other stuff to get going but , man , i love tigermoths!!!!!!

thanks in advance spud

Rcozstyle
09-02-2008, 01:05 AM
Hi Guys

I was given a near new tiger moth just last week (only one flight), and have started to convert from a slimer to electric, I had decided to put a pulso 190gram 770kv motor in the front with my hyperion 3700mah 3s and after reading the thread so far and that guys seem to be adding 100grams of extra nose weight and say that it doesnt need to overpowered, I am hoping that my set up will achieve the finding you guys have already.

I have dremeled out some of the firewall to allow access for the battery through the hatch in the bottom and am currently working on the engine and battery mount, pics to follow once I get a camera.

I decided on the 770kv instead of anything higher mainly because I thought that the moth would be a draggy airframe and would benefit , from some low down grunt, I am currently flying the 900kv version of the same motor in a thunder tiger obl 40, the obl is 69.5" wingspan and slightly over 2lbs, the motor almost has enough thrust to hover the obl at full power but it cant hold it there.

If anyone can tell me what the control throws are it would be a great help ?.

Twmaster
09-04-2008, 03:17 AM
In the event anybody is interested I am selling my kit. It is the red/silver one detailed in this thread. Includes 4 new servos (2 x HS81 and 2 x HS311) as well as a set of 12" servo extensions and a nice set of aluminum hubbed wheels/tires.

I've managed to disassemble it enough to go back into the original carton.

Priced at $150 plus shipping. PM me if interested please.

Cheers,

firemanbill
09-04-2008, 11:49 AM
Mike I'd be all over this one if I didn't already have so many planes in waiting.

If it flies half as good as my sons 50" Jenny from the same company it'll be a great flyer!

Good luck in selling it.:D

spudandcat
11-23-2008, 09:55 AM
hey fellas ,
finally got mine in the air ! it seemed a bit quick though , well for a scale look anyway, and thats with a 13 x 4. flew great , and was hard to stall i reckon i can move the cog back a bit. also she didn't like the grass at my park much and would nose over , i wasnt expecting that.. but hey it was pretty thick

ah well seeyas

spud

spudandcat
11-30-2008, 12:56 AM
got it finished properly yesterday, and had a great flight. i moved the cog back as well , put the cowling on ,and fixed the holes in the wings properly (with solarfilm instead of masking tape hehe).. i run pretty low throws so i couldn't stall it, but it did great loops from level flight with the 13 x 4 . lands really easily too. mine comes in at around 4 pounds which i thought was a bit heavy but it seems ok. if i had a 3s 3.5A to 3A batt i could shove it a bit further forward and get the weight down a tad , but hey it goes ok as it is with the 4A...
seeyas spud

spudandcat
12-06-2008, 11:28 AM
G'day fellas,

'nother great flight today in a bit of a breeze, she handled it really well. 2A for 10 mins thats allright. i'm really happy with this little fella
seeyas spud

spudandcat
01-20-2009, 10:59 AM
Look it flys to!!!!!
seeyas spud

http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Tigermoth-mp4

BradT
01-20-2009, 11:46 PM
The video isn't up yet. I'll look again later, as I want to see how it flies compared to my similar sized RipMax Tiggy.

spudandcat
01-21-2009, 07:16 AM
Its taking its time , i put that one in as a .mp4 because it was the smallest file , should i resubmit it as a .wmv ?
seeyas spud

dimadee
01-21-2009, 09:17 PM
Sounds like a good idea. Normally they are posted pretty quickly, so it suggests that there may be a problem with the file format.

Lookin forward to seeing it ;-)

spudandcat
01-22-2009, 07:02 AM
ok try this , it worked straight away.

http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Green-Models-Tigermoth-WMV

my 8 y.o son filmed it so be nice ! thanks fellas seeyas

spud

export!
05-20-2010, 04:14 AM
So what is the consensus on the CG? I've read of success in the range of 3-1/2 all the way back to 4-1/2.

Looking to get it down in one piece on maiden!

Glacier Girl
05-29-2010, 02:16 AM
So what is the consensus on the CG? I've read of success in the range of 3-1/2 all the way back to 4-1/2.

Looking to get it down in one piece on maiden!


Best of luck Scott. Hoping it lasts for the fly in, and don't do a Ken maiden.
You know where it comes down in one piece, bounces up then explodes. LOL:eek:

export!
06-04-2010, 04:06 PM
Complete success! Excellent maiden - perfect except for a nose over after the landing roll-out. Landed on plush grass and the plane amazingly looks brand new.

Sabrehawk
06-08-2010, 02:56 PM
I thought I'd drop in and give my report on my version of this 50" Green Models Tiggy. This is Hobby Lobby's all silver one and was setup for electric as it came. Even so it was a frustrating and difficult one to get together, mainly cause the manual even with the included addenda for the electric version still was not refering to the version in the box.
But even though it was a long tough battle with it, once done it did turn out to be a very pleasing aircraft to fly, and got some very nice complements from fellow club members. Especially my spotter who stood by me on the maiden flight, who was simply in awe of it's grace and beauty in the air.
The pikot figure used on these first two test flights was "Clyde", an Eflite figure used in my Eflite Stearman.(I use velcro to attach him so he can go from plane to plane.) But I have a 12" figure on order that I will be using just his head on a shaped foam block for the cockpit, and then returning his head to the body for display in the pits.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b370/SabreHawk1/TigerMoth010.jpg
The nice included instrument panels, and nice Rx power switch location already provided for and labeled on the forward cockpit's panel.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b370/SabreHawk1/TigerMoth015.jpg
Proudly parked between my other two planes in the day's lineup.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b370/SabreHawk1/TigerMoth009.jpg
And lastly the RAF pilot on his way to me now who will be taking over flight duty.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b370/SabreHawk1/51USgtijLXL__SS500_.jpg

msfitoy
09-09-2010, 11:25 PM
Here's my version, from Hobby-Lobby- about 15 flights thus far and loving it. She flies equally well with either the 3s 3300 or 4000, propped for about 32A. WOT (10x5). This is my 2nd plane- the first being a Hobbyzone super-cub- and though there HAVE been a few moments it's getting easier and more relaxing with each flight. I read this thread avidly before and during the build so thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge! I'm also happy to see some current postings- let's keep it going.

TomHi Tom...if you're still around I'd love to see more of your Moth...especially the way you detailed and painted it...thanks!

msfitoy
09-09-2010, 11:27 PM
I thought I'd drop in and give my report on my version of this 50" Green Models Tiggy. This is Hobby Lobby's all silver one and was setup for electric as it came. Even so it was a frustrating and difficult one to get together, mainly cause the manual even with the included addenda for the electric version still was not refering to the version in the box.
But even though it was a long tough battle with it, once done it did turn out to be a very pleasing aircraft to fly, and got some very nice complements from fellow club members. Especially my spotter who stood by me on the maiden flight, who was simply in awe of it's grace and beauty in the air.
The pikot figure used on these first two test flights was "Clyde", an Eflite figure used in my Eflite Stearman.(I use velcro to attach him so he can go from plane to plane.) But I have a 12" figure on order that I will be using just his head on a shaped foam block for the cockpit, and then returning his head to the body for display in the pits.

The nice included instrument panels, and nice Rx power switch location already provided for and labeled on the forward cockpit's panel.

Proudly parked between my other two planes in the day's lineup.

And lastly the RAF pilot on his way to me now who will be taking over flight duty.

Awesome Moth...tell me about the instrument panel you used? Thanks!

export!
09-10-2010, 02:30 AM
Got the email notification that this thread got some action. I've flown my green/yellow version probably 30 times and it is hands down an awesome plane. I absolutely love it. At a recent flyin I flew it with a large Fokker tripe and a Camel bipe and they looked awesome in the air together. It was the highlight of the trip.

spad
09-10-2010, 01:19 PM
Export, I have one in the box-how hard is it too assemble, as I've seen various opinions?

Your power system?


Thanks!

msfitoy
09-11-2010, 05:52 PM
I just got mine but there's no instructions in the box...is this normal?

export!
09-11-2010, 06:43 PM
You should have instructions - I looked and cannot find mine.

Spad, it's not that hard to build. The rigging and pull-pull is kinda fiddly but that's just time - not really difficult. I would use full size servos for the rudder and elevator as they will drop right into the cutouts without modification. I used 9gram servos for the ailerons and have had excellent flights.

As for power I use;

TR 35-42D 1000kv motor
2x2200mAh 3S in parallel
MAS 11x6 wooden prop
I think the ESC is a Turnigy Plush 40A

spad
09-11-2010, 06:45 PM
Thanks!

spad
09-11-2010, 07:57 PM
I just got mine but there's no instructions in the box...is this normal?

Well, maybe HL can provide a pdf.

If you can't find them, anywhere, I could probably photocopy or scan them for you, but it'll take some time: I have boxes hidden all over the house (or so I think) and it'll take time to find this one!

msfitoy
09-11-2010, 08:52 PM
Well, maybe HL can provide a pdf.

If you can't find them, anywhere, I could probably photocopy or scan them for you, but it'll take some time: I have boxes hidden all over the house (or so I think) and it'll take time to find this one!I contacted them and they do not have a pdf online :sad:

I hate to have you take so much time to scan them but I do appreciate the offer...I'll contact the seller and see if they can help...

millen
09-11-2010, 09:02 PM
I am waiting to get my Tiger Moth. I have bought the 50'' EP Red/silver version from JP models (made by Green Models). I am realy eager to get it in the air.
On the site jperkinsdistribution it is possible to download a manual for the 120'' size moth.

millen
09-11-2010, 09:08 PM
For som reason I am not allowed to post a link but it is jperkinsdistribution with ".co.uk" in the end. Of course I ment the 78'' size moth.

Twmaster
09-11-2010, 11:47 PM
Millen, Welcome to Wattflyer. Due to the large amount of spam we get here new members are required to post 5 useful posts before they can post links.

Thanks for the pointers to that dealer in the UK.

millen
09-13-2010, 09:59 AM
My plan is to do some ”kit bashing” and make it as scale as possible with as little effort as possible.
I am planning to start by ading oil tank, aerometer (speed meter), additional wiring, pitot tubes, scale fuel tank with the corrugated look. I suppose the wind shields have to be replaced as well. The first thing I have done is the speed meter.

msfitoy
09-14-2010, 09:50 PM
Well, maybe HL can provide a pdf.

If you can't find them, anywhere, I could probably photocopy or scan them for you, but it'll take some time: I have boxes hidden all over the house (or so I think) and it'll take time to find this one!
Hi Spad...looks like I'm coming up empty...the vendor doesn't have it so I wonder if I can take up your offer? But instead of you spending time to scan, etc...would you be ok with mailing the manual to me so I can make a copy then send back to you right away (I pay postage both ways of course)?

On another note...I discovered a tear on one of the elevators...like a bad novice, I trimmed the damaged piece out and tried to re-cover the area with disasterous results...is anyone here expert enough to re-cover the damaged area for me? Of course I would pay for your time/services...just name your price...I can post a pic later...

millen
09-27-2010, 12:19 AM
Finally, I have got my Moth. So far I have only examined the parts for damages but everything seems to be OK. My kit has a new little feature. The cowling has a little hatch where you can access the battery from the front of the plane. The kit includes items for IC or electric and the battery bay and motor mount for electric motor has to be installed. This is already prepared so you will screw them in place.

export!
09-27-2010, 09:45 PM
Apparently Hobby Lobby is getting a new colour scheme in. They told me it's a camo scheme and should be available by Dec/Jan.

millen
09-29-2010, 07:38 PM
I have read about problems with the wiring. No wonder, as constructed it is not possible to tension the wires with the supplied devices, the wires will twist.. Apparently they used to have a swivelling connector but now it is a fixt aluminium connector. I have now cut away the heavy solid brass part and soldered a swivelling connector so it will be easy to set the tension in all the wires. By the way, the manual is not very good, hardly possible to use.

millen
11-02-2010, 11:35 PM
My moth is nearly ready for maiden. Winter is almost here so I might have to wait until spring. I have been busy with other things so the build has been slow. I will be back later.

export!
11-03-2010, 12:15 AM
Ah you'll find a nice crisp day to maiden her. And yes, the manual is not the greatest. It would not be fun to build if you didn't have a few ARFs and even better a few pull-pull setups under your belt.

spudandcat
04-02-2011, 09:02 AM
Here's some cap cam footage of my old Tiggy. she doesn't really like the breeze, but she still flys great, turnigy 35-42 1200 kv and 4A 3S batt. with a 10x5 prop.
http://vimeo.com/21836456
seeyas spud

millen
04-27-2011, 07:25 AM
Today I went for the maiden flight or rather tried to. My field is a narrow one and the Moth went over the edge after a few meters. At that moment I had (in my opinion) flight speed but the Moth made a short jump and then went back to the ground. The wheel axle snapped of and the moth went on its nose. The steel must have been pretty brittle. Nothing else was damaged, not even a scratch on the propeller. Now I have to construct a new gear.

millen
04-27-2011, 02:30 PM
The gear is as good as new. I soldered the axis right back with silver solder. I suppose the heat will have softened the steel but as brittle as it was I suppose that is no harm. Now it is windy but I will try again when the weather is calm. Probably I will trim a bit up elevator before next flight.

spad
04-27-2011, 02:44 PM
I have one in a box-how hard is this thing to assemble?

millen
04-27-2011, 04:14 PM
My opinion is that is as easy to put together as an average ARF. Almost no glue needed. The manual is quite bad but if you have done any ARF before it should not be to tricky. On the other hand, who am I to have an opinion, my Moth has not flown yet.

wolfewinde
06-12-2011, 02:46 AM
Hi Guys,

I am just finishing the build on my Hobby Lobby 50" Moth. Have had this one for a few years, but never finished the build. Lost the manual somewhere along the way and a few of the parts - nothing critical - replaced those at the LHS today - just some bolts mostly.

Will be using a HiMax 350 watt motor on 4s 3300 mah 30C lipos. Using standard servos for elevator and rudder and HiTec 81's for the ailerons.

Have the fuse assembled and all of those electronics installed. Lower wing is assembled and attached.with the aileron servos installed and tested. Really just need to ad the spars, upper wing and guide wires - those will be fun no doubt - then probably fiddle with the rudder/elevator wires some more. Should have her ready to maiden in a couple of days.

Any of you guys know what the CG is supposed to be set at? And are any of you still flying one of these?

Wolfe

wolfewinde
06-13-2011, 01:36 AM
Well mine is ready to Maiden. BUT I still don't know what the CG is supposed to be set at. Anyone Know?

Wolfe

jnwlws
06-18-2011, 01:00 AM
Does anyone know where I can get a wing kit for this Tiger Moth? Hobby Lobby no longer carries it. Mine did a roll on take off and destroyed the wings but the fuse is OK! Any help would be appreciated....

millen
09-10-2011, 08:09 PM
In UK the JP Pekins has many things: http://www.jperkinsdistribution.co.uk/detail.php?JPNO=5500291&activepage=7&Navmain=Aircraft%20-%20ARTF%20&%20Kits&subcatname=ARTF%20-%20JP

millen
09-10-2011, 08:13 PM
Today i went on a "second" maiden (the fist one was to short to count as a maiden). It flew, but tail heavy to the point that it was hardly poossible to fly. it flew like a leaf in storm and I went round and round to try to get her stable for a landing. Eventually i got her down in one pice (acctUALLY WITH A PROPER LANDING). Now I need som wieight in the front to get har to fly in a controllable manner.

millen
10-19-2011, 10:20 PM
I have now 30 flights with the moth and it flies great. I upgraded the motor to an 140 g motor with a APC 10x7 slowflyer prop and I use 2200 mAh 3s lipo. Flying for about 10 minutes wih some spare power in the lipo. The AUW is about 1800g but I still have 60g lead in the nose. I think I can remove some of the lead but it does not seem to hurt to keep it either.

Mr Manwaring
04-06-2012, 11:10 AM
Hi fellas , (This is my first time on a forum.) I am restoring a Greens 50" moth and I have found this thread a real gold mine of valuable info for which I am very grateful, thank you all .:D My user name is Mr, because John had been taken.( Im not an old fuddy duddy) Thanks again to all .

millen
04-06-2012, 03:56 PM
I had mine out yesterday and It flew well.