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Piperfan
06-15-2006, 02:52 PM
Just picked one of these up to ad to my cub hanger. I have to admit, E-flite is doing it right. This plane is one of the best small scale cubs I have ever seen. I am considering removing the dihedral from the wings to make its scale appearence more realistic. I wish they put this out as a kit! I would love to build one from the kit form. The only thing so far I found was that the motor mount that comes with the E-flite power 25 was not :confused: drilled out for the 8-32 mounting bolts that come with the kit and blind nuts already mounted in the fire wall. I simply drilled the correct size holes in the mount.:rolleyes: I am going to finish in Military Liason scale stars to have another warbird. The ultra cote stripe and numbers come off easily enough leaving no visiable marks. I am using 4 Hitec HS225MG servos, Castle 40amp ESC, TP 2100 3s battery Xs 2 in parallel, 6 channel receiver. If this plane fly's as good as my other eflite planes, this will be a winner. More info as the build progress's and photos too!

debhicks
06-15-2006, 08:22 PM
It is a nice plane. Hope you have a lot of fun with it.

alienx
06-18-2006, 11:45 PM
I wanted that one too but spent all my money waiting for it to come out (I actually spent more than that!!). I'll be happily watching this thread for pics and video though. Good luck with it!

Piperfan
06-20-2006, 08:25 PM
Well folks, the maiden flight was flawless!! I flew for almost 25 minutes as scale speeds. It fly's like a much larger model. It does all the usual cub excercise's (hammer head, roll's, loop's, cuban 8's, humpy bumps and so on) with plenty of power to spare. Side slipping on final is a thing of beauty if its not windy. Will post picks soon and a Mpeg hopefully tonight after this evenings flying. For those of you who waited, wait no longer. No doubt this will become your next favorite model. I had a feeling E-flite got it right. It balanced right on the money no mod's neccesary. I added a few scale touch's like the vertical front wing support in the front of the cabin and painted the inside yellow. Look for more soon.

Piperfan
07-02-2006, 02:43 AM
OK, I forgot my camera 3 times since the first flight. I finally got some shots today. I kit bashed some and stripped the cub stripes and tail decals off and put US stars and bars on to get a US ARMY Liason version. Yes, I know its not a L-4 but it looks great anyway. All flights so far have been in the 25 to 30 minute range. Super flyer, some what squirlly on the ground but once you get the tail flying, its fine.

Bill G
07-02-2006, 03:03 PM
A guy bought one of these the other day, when I was at the LHS. Got the Eflite motor, and something like a Thunder Power 3s-5million P massive brick of a lipo. Probably get over an hour out of it.

alienx
07-02-2006, 04:01 PM
Looks really good! I like the army decor. Can't see how I can possibly avoid this purchase ...thanks!

nautilus_3
07-17-2006, 11:44 PM
Hi, I just bought one of these Piper Cubs from E-Flight. The people at the hobby shop could not help me in purchasing the proper components to make this thing fly, as they had no idea how they worked it seemed... So can anyone recommend everything I need? I have nothing but the fully assembled plane.. Need a Motor, as well as the radio and what ever else. One shop I went to recently said that it was going to take around $1000 to get this going. Cant afford that, so please keep in mind a low, but not too low, budget.

Thanks for the help

SilberIgel
07-17-2006, 11:58 PM
Hi, I just bought one of these Piper Cubs from E-Flight. The people at the hobby shop could not help me in purchasing the proper components to make this thing fly, as they had no idea how they worked it seemed... So can anyone recommend everything I need? I have nothing but the fully assembled plane.. Need a Motor, as well as the radio and what ever else. One shop I went to recently said that it was going to take around $1000 to get this going. Cant afford that, so please keep in mind a low, but not too low, budget.

Thanks for the help

Dude!!! Check the side of the box!!! All the info you need is there complements of E-flight. If you don't wan't E-flight 'stuff' you can use their info as a guide.....

Its gonna be awsome!!!

WWI Ace
07-18-2006, 12:10 AM
I'm flying a .25 sized Fokker triplane with the Eflite Power 25 motor, Eflite 40amp ESC, APC 12x6 prop (not the slow fly!!), 2 Thunder Power 3 cell 1320mah batteries wired parallel, Spektrum AR6000 rx, and 4 S75 servos. Get about 8-9 minutes of flying. Flies easily at half throttle. I've had great luck with both the motor and ESC. I think that this is the power setup they recommend for the Cub anyway. Just with a bigger lipoly. But by using two small ones wired parallel I can also disconnect them and use them in my smaller planes!!! Steve.

Piperfan
07-18-2006, 03:34 AM
I guess your LHS is not very knowledgeable regarding RC planes. Otherwise you would be flying right now. As the previous comment says, check the box. Duh! The instructions also mentions various fly pack systems. I do recommend you use Hitec's HS225MG (metal gear) servos (about $27 but worth it). The plane is large enough to do some serious manuvers and the little plastic gears in most small servos would sheer very quickly. If you look up at the beginning of my thread you will see the items I put in the plane. You will need to put at least 2 2100mha 3s batts in the plane. It needs the weight to balance of this size battery set up. You could use one 4200mha 3s instead but I have other planes that use the 2100's from Thunder power. You need to make a Parallel power connector to get to 4200 with two 2100 packs. For the E-flight power25 you are going to need at least a 40 amp ESC. E-flite makes one perfect for the size motor/battery set up. Read the manual. Leave the BEC connected.
As mentioned, the plane is squirrely on the ground until you fly the tail. If you are not a good tail dragger pilot you will have a hard time getting it to track well. Just fly the tail and you'll do fine. It also likes to have a bit of rudder when initiating a turn (as all cubs do Full size or scale). other wise you will drag the tail around and your turns will look like crap. You can use a small 4, 5 or six channel receiver. I am using a 6 (borrowed from another plane) so I can get my airlerons to have differential (more up then down). I recommend a computor radio. If you don't have one. Get one. The fact that you can fly multiple planes from one radio is worth it.

Crash Test Dummy
07-18-2006, 04:04 AM
OK, I forgot my camera 3 times since the first flight. I finally got some shots today. I kit bashed some and stripped the cub stripes and tail decals off and put US stars and bars on to get a US ARMY Liason version. Yes, I know its not a L-4 but it looks great anyway. All flights so far have been in the 25 to 30 minute range. Super flyer, some what squirlly on the ground but once you get the tail flying, its fine.

Your cub looks very nice. I like the stars and bars. What AMPs and Watts are you pulling and on what prop?

My buddy has one of these but he hasnt flown it yet. I can't wait to see it fly. Do you have and video of your yet?

CTD

nautilus_3
07-18-2006, 05:40 AM
Hi guys, thanks for the quick response.. By the way, I did check the side of the box first thing. Wouldn't you know it, my hobby shop didn't carry any of the parts mentioned. I asked for similar or equivalent parts and they couldn't help out at all... Went to a few other shops and im being quoted, between $800 and $1000 for what I need. This doesn't sound right to me.. I figured that I would need to shell out another $300 to $400. So, that's why I'm asking you experienced RCAviators for advice or tips.. Maybe a list of equivalent parts that I could go and get without having to ask the guys at the hobby shop who seem to want to rip me off.

Thanks again for the help!!!

Piperfan
07-18-2006, 02:34 PM
I would go to the horizon web site and check what they are charging for the items listed on the box. Then contact your LHS to see if there prices match. They should be the same or lower. If they are much higher then horizon's contact horizon. The LHS should be charging the same as Horizon. Otherwise they are price gouging. My LHS gave me a discount on the motor and the servos I needed, since I bought them at the same time. If you looking for a great online dealer try www.chiefaircraft.com (http://www.chiefaircraft.com) these guys have a great selection, good pricing, same day service (usually) and know there products. If your LHS is selling lots of RC car stuff most likely you will be taken for a ride. Not all shops are like this, granted, but ground pounders just don't understand the fine art of moving in the 3 dimensional world. If you need more info let me know.

Piperfan
07-18-2006, 02:35 PM
I pull about 26 amps at full throttle. Not even close to the limit of my 40amp esc. 10x6 master airscrew E prop.

Video coming soooooonnnn!

rea59
07-19-2006, 06:33 PM
I have this cub from E-Flight and took it out this morning for a test run. I found that it would not track straight on the ground. It kept wanting to turn left. I did a little adjusting and found that the more throttle I gave it the worse it got. I went ahead and gave it more throttle got the tail flying and the turn to the left was worse (although the rudder was set for turning to the right) It doesn't appear that either of the main gears were dragging. My strip to take off from is asphalt and does slope downhill (to the right as you stand behind the plane) In short I never did give it full throttle and put it in the air for fear of not being able to get a straight landing. I used everything recommended by E-Flight. Any suggestions or ideals would be appreciated.

Piperfan
07-19-2006, 07:13 PM
This is pretty common with tail draggers. What prop size are you using? I recommend a 10x6. Any larger will creat to much force. The enertial forces set up by the motor and prop spinning without sufficient airflow over the control surfaces will allow this sitiation to accure. I also recommend having sufficient rudder deflection to compensate for this. On take off, I have my radio set for High rate with a good amount of exponential on Elevator and rudder. Asphalt makes tail draggers do this even more. Use the grass!! Hence the need for hi rates on the elevator once you get moving the grass will create friction on the wheels and make the nose want to rotate forward. Its a fine line in control once you get the tail in the air. I find most pilots just give it full throttle and attempt take off. You would not find a full scale pilot doing this? Why would a model plane do this? Its a common pilot error that is usually learned as a beginner and not broken. A good instructor will tell you not to do that. If you are advancing throttle to fast, try easing your throttle forward to initiate forward roll and then increase slowly till the plan is moving briskly. at that time give a small ( minimal amount) of down elevator to get the tail off and then steer with the rudder to the right to compensate for the engine forces wanting to send the plane to the right. Hope this helps to get it in the air.

rea59
07-19-2006, 07:38 PM
I have a composite 12 x 6 thin electric prop. This is the prop recomended by Horizon hobbies and the kit. At about half throttle the tail comes up and I can control it but when I pull the trottle back it turns sharp. I suspected the torque was causing this to happen. I can get the tail in the air and could get off the ground easy enough but fear how the plane will react on landing. The grass in this area is too tall to attempt a take off (but will cushion a botched landing). I guess I'll have to just suck-it-up put the plane in the air and hope for the best. It's a very nice plane and should have some good flight charcteristics but with the costs involved I was taking it very carefully and slowly wanting to make sure I get many more flights out of this plane.

Piperfan
07-19-2006, 08:19 PM
Horizon recommends a 12x6 but its to big a prop for the plane, Try a master airscrew 10x6 or 10X8. While I have some left turn tendency on take off, its not that bad. On landing the plane will have sufficient airspeed to over come any left turn tendency. Besides, you will be coasting to a stop. I do touch and goes all during my flight (10 to 15 off a grass strip) with only a few incendents of left hand turning. That 12 in prop is to big. If you want unlimited vertical, I am sure its great. Besides the MA is a nicer looking prop. APC works good but they don't look very nice. I put APC's on my sport planes, but not my scale jobs. Don't you find that the prop is close to striking? Don't want to do that with a out runner motor too often. That will kill it quick or break a shaft. As mentioned, use the grass. All tail draggers do better on and off grass. I know several full size tail dragger pilots and they prefer grass all the time over asphalt. If you don't have grass cut short though, you will be stuck use the hard stuff. Be careful, be gentle and above all have fun.

BradFish1
08-18-2006, 04:29 PM
Piperfan,
Did you use an MA electric 10x6? I bought one and it won't seat on the shaft right. The APC has a recessed area in back that allows it to seat properly. I'd like to use the MA, as it does look better, but it won't fit without destroying the prop.

BradFish1
08-18-2006, 04:30 PM
Piperfan,
Did you use an MA electric 10x6? I bought one and it won't seat on the shaft right. The APC has a recessed area in back that allows it to seat properly. I'd like to use the MA, as it does look better, but it won't fit without destroying the prop.

vax6335
08-18-2006, 10:09 PM
At our Annual Electric fly this past weekend we had an auction to help raise money for the club. I ended up placing the high bid for one of these Eflite cubs, $100. I'll have to save up some money for the motor and battery, but this will be my 3rd Cub, I also have a .40 and a Parkzone Cub. Hopefully I'll get it ready to go soon, glad it's got good reviews here. :D

Piperfan
08-20-2006, 07:19 PM
I had to ream the back side of the prop some with a prop reamer. I have several left over from my glow days. I only reamed out the bottom half of the prop. Its a simple proceedure if your careful. And yes, you could go all the way thru. If you do you can always buy some brass tubing to and cut off a small bit to shim the outer section. MA also has wood E props. I am installing one today and will take some pix at the field soon. The wood will really add another nice scale touch. Let me know ify ou have more questions. Happy flying.

BradFish1
08-21-2006, 09:46 PM
Piperfan,
Where are you getting the wood electric prop? I don't see them on the MA website or Tower.

rea59
08-21-2006, 10:01 PM
I used the MA Electric 10 X 6 and yes experienced the same issues getting it to fit. However I work as an engineer and have done machining by trade so it was a simple matter to ream it out to the proper size while keeping the hole centered and the prop balanced.

I too am interested in where to find the wood E-props.

BradFish1
08-22-2006, 03:06 AM
REA59,
What size did you ream it out to. I know a good machinist would know this.

Piperfan
08-22-2006, 04:24 AM
My LHS had a couple of MA's in a box. They don't look new. Like they have been around for a while. I don't think MA is making them any more. I am going to sand them down to bear wood and stain them darker. Get some real authentic aged look to them. Will post photo.

Hal-i-chopter
08-23-2006, 09:07 PM
This is the first scale RC I have flown. Prior to this I have flown a few foamies (Slowstick, Shockflyer, Tensor Bi-plane) and lately a Trex heli.

After 12 hours putting it together (I should be able to do it now in much less than 6 hours) I crashed after about 2 minutes of flying. The crash was caused by a stall which I am not familiar with based on my previous RC experience. When this plane stalls it really drops out of the air!

The stall was caused when I tried to do a sharp turn using coordinated rudder and aileron control. In fact anytime I seem to use the rudder and aileron it goes into a spin and drops like a rock.

I now put the pontoons on the plane and fly it from our lake. The pontoons add quite a bit of weight and you really have to keep the speed up.

I've crashed a couple times on the lake. The first was the classic rudder/aileron turn I described but the second was an intentional stall at high altitude. My intent was to learn how to recover from a stall. Instead when I stalled it went nose down and slowly spun. At no time did I regain airflow over the control surfaces so I could bring it out of the stall.

Can anyone tell me what is happening here?

Hal

Piperfan
08-24-2006, 06:52 PM
This plane is not a RC trainer. It flies very scale and will tend to do things that any real plane would do when control throws are over done. I could go into the whole aerodynamic story but your probably already know what keeps the plane in the air. If you don't read up on it. So, When starting a turn, use just enough aileron to initiate the turn and then add just a tiny bit of rudder to correct for adverse yaw. To much rudder and you get the start of a sharp rudder turn. This plane has a short coupling and is sensative to rudder imput. Once you correct the tracking of the plane in the turn, alow the rudder to center(as with any plane). You may need to touch the rudder again to correct the adverse yaw but not much. If you are holding the rudder the whole time while turning, the resulting outcome will be a spin and possible crash if not enough room is between the plane and the ground for a good pilot to recover. These are obersavations from what you wrote. There is no replacement for being at the flying field and observing your flying. Do you have a more experienced pilot you can fly with at your flying field? If you do, I recommend you seek out their experience. If you have an experienced Cub pilot (4 or more years) of scale flying of cubs, even better. I have been flying cubs my whole life. Full size and scale. They can be quite docile but a hand full in the hands of the inexperienced. Hence your experience so far. Don't give up. Flying a cub takes time. Flying a Cub well, takes even more time. Let me know if this helps. If I had to choose on plane fly forever it would be a Cub and I have flown a lot of planes. Hope this helps

Hal-i-chopter
08-24-2006, 07:57 PM
Piperfan,

I do have a computer Tx a Futaba 7CAP. I have all the settings such as recommended by the Eflite. However I think from your description I am simply adding too much rudder and keeping the rudder on while turning. This worked well for my 3D foamie flying with a Tensor Bi-plane, not so well with scale Cub.

I find I have no problems flying by elevator/ailerons alone. Maybe the turns aren't quite as precise but it does the job. Mostly I want to learn how to recover from a spin (stall?) so that I can experiment with various controls without crashing.

My GC may be a tad too far back. My problem with CG is how can you tell what 'level' is? From the CG instructions there is only a very small distance between too far forward and too far back. However if I rest the plane on my fingertips (I am not using a CG stand) moving my fingers from the closest to furthest position hardly changes the plane angle at all. What should be considered horizontal, the flat bottoms of the wings? The stripe on the side?

Rosie
08-30-2006, 04:13 AM
I may have missed it somewhere. What is the wingspan of the E-Flite Cub?
Rosie

Twmaster
08-30-2006, 04:19 AM
62 inches.

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/TechnicalSpecs.aspx?ProdID=EFL4000

thunder1
09-01-2006, 05:08 AM
Hal, The horizontal stab and elevators should be level or slightly higher than level. You'll want to keep the CG at or slightly in front of the forward recommended location.

Since all the model you listed before have a very light wing loading, this model will have vastly different flight characteristics. Obviously, when the model starts spinng you should point the nose down and use opposite rudder to pull out the spin. Try to not use ailerons while in the spin because that's only going to make things worse. Get the nose pointed down as quick as possible to increase the air speed.

As you pointed out, keep the control throws low. Also try to keep the wings as level as possible while in a turn. The bank angle of the wings in a turn increases the wing loading and in turn increases the stall speed. That's what you're experienceing when the model spins.

One trick you can try to avoid spins is to use aileron reflex. Raise the ailerons 1-2mm above their neutral position. This reduces the angle of attack, delaying stall and it also reduces the drag of the outboard aileron.

If I could only fly one airplane, it would be my SA Edge 540;-)

flyingguy
09-06-2006, 04:42 AM
The control surfaces on my Cub exceed the manual's specs. I set the clevis and servo linkages to minimize throws but they are still excessive. When reading about limiting the throws electronically, the Futaba 7C manual implies that the controls will then be less precise. Not sure what this means in real life. Actually, I'm not clear on how to set up high/low rates ... I kind of get the expo idea but I'm still somewhat lost on the basics here. Anyone have some settings for the 7C w/Cub?

Piperfan
09-06-2006, 05:35 AM
The control surfaces on my Cub exceed the manual's specs. I set the clevis and servo linkages to minimize throws but they are still excessive. When reading about limiting the throws electronically, the Futaba 7C manual implies that the controls will then be less precise. Not sure what this means in real life. Actually, I'm not clear on how to set up high/low rates ... I kind of get the expo idea but I'm still somewhat lost on the basics here. Anyone have some settings for the 7C w/Cub?


When you enter the programing mode of your 7cap you need to go to the ATV (Adjustable Travel Volumn) parameter or it may be called End Point Adjustment. You'wd think I could remember this being that I have a Futaba 9Cap. Anywho, there you can set the limits of the end point of any channel you select. In the manual it states the starting point for all control throws. If you don't have a throw meter and plan on building a lot of models, get one. They are inexpensive tools that can be the difference of a properly set up model and a pile of sticks just after the first landing (crash). Also if you don't have one, get a CG device. Both take a lot of the guess work out of setting up a model properly.

Set up the end points for the maximum you want the control surfaces to go. Lets say the airlerons are 5/8"s up and down. put the control surface deflection measuring device on the wing and move the stick to the left. Then go ahead and set the end point parameter on the radio to match the amount indicated on the manual.

Dual rates are in a serperate mode in the menu. Leave your high rates at 100% and make your low rates about 60%. Follow suit for all control throws. Don't forget to read the instruction manual that came with the radio. Also, I think Futaba has a tech you can call for assistance with setting up the radio. I usually set up my hi/low rate switchs to be hi rate away from me (up) and low rates toward me (down). I set up all my planes like this, so I don't get confused with different planes programed into the radio. Hope this helps.

Crash Test Dummy
09-06-2006, 06:17 AM
Yesterday my buddy flew his 25 Cub with the floats. It was beautiful, splash in go's and take offs were the neatest thing.

CTD

flyingguy
09-06-2006, 01:21 PM
Hi Piperfan, Thanks for the sage advice. The 7C manual presupposes a lot of familiarity with complex setups. ... their examples are typically uncommon things, go figure. I will set up the rates as you indicated and see where that takes me. I'll also call Futaba tech support for setup help if I am getting nowhere fast.

I don't think that I gave the tail a chance to come up during the take-off roll ... I may have gunned the throttle thinking that she was going to fly off like my little PZ Cub with the Venom motor upgrade. I'm learning that scale models demand scale flying. Just don't want to learn it the hard way with such a nice (and fairly expensive) model! Thanks again Friend!

flyingguy
09-07-2006, 03:28 AM
I think I got the rates and endpoints set up OK now. I have a question about expo .. the manual calls for 20% on high rate and 10% on low rate: does that mean -20 and -10?

alienx
09-07-2006, 09:22 PM
I think I got the rates and endpoints set up OK now. I have a question about expo .. the manual calls for 20% on high rate and 10% on low rate: does that mean -20 and -10?
No, it's all positive numbers. At least that's how I've been interpreting my 7C. Incidentally, I wouldn't worry too much about the plane instructions. At least not for Expo. That, to me, seems to be a user taste thing. I like 30% on all my planes so far. And I only fly in low rates. I don't like that feeling fof the factory high rate settings on any of the planes I have.

Edit: I should also mention that I generally set my low rates at about 60%. That is, I set the high rates using the end-point setting and then set my low rates at 60%. I assume this means that I am actually using 60% of the travel of whatever I set as an end-point. 60% is probably less travel than the factory low-rate suggestion for my planes. But at any rate, this set-up (60% throw and 30% expo) is how I am comfortable flying. I have always been able to sqaure-off turns if I needed to.

Twmaster
10-02-2006, 03:57 AM
I can't quite tell from the photos. Is the covering on this Cub shiny or fabric like?

Hal-i-chopter
10-02-2006, 03:38 PM
Hal, The horizontal stab and elevators should be level or slightly higher than level. You'll want to keep the CG at or slightly in front of the forward recommended location.

One trick you can try to avoid spins is to use aileron reflex. Raise the ailerons 1-2mm above their neutral position. This reduces the angle of attack, delaying stall and it also reduces the drag of the outboard aileron.
;-)
I now have my 'spinning/stalling' problem solved on my Eflite Cub float plane. I read in MA magazine a 3-part series on tuning up your RC plane. It was very scale model oriented, especially focused on asymetrical wings, like the Cub. It has a good description of how 'adverse yaw' occurs on asymetrical wings and also how to prevent it. The problem occurs upon a steep climbout where the aileron that moves down acts as an airbrake. You can imagine that if the wing is at a high angle of attack the down aileron is at a very high angle of attack. This, combined with any leakage through the aileron/wing gap, can cause the planes nose to turn (yaw) in the opposite direction as the intended turn. It can also reduce or even reverse the forces intended to cause the roll. I experienced this when upon a steep take off without enough airspeed the plane started to turn left and even with maximum right aileron the plane continued to turn left. Luckily in this case it didn't stall so I was able to eventually get enough airspeed to get the ailerons working for me again.

The solution is much like 'thunder' wrote, to use a form of aileron reflex. Only instead of putting the neutral point on both ailerons a little high, if you have a 5 or more channel Tx and Rx you can use asymmetric throws on the ailerons such that the up aileron goes 50% (for example) further than the down aileron. Obviously you need to have separate connections to each aileron servo to your Rx to do this. In my Futaba 7CAP I can easily set this up with 'flaperon'. Although I am not using the ailerons as flaps (yet, I'm just not sure if this is a good idea on the Eflite Cub with floats) the 'flaperon' mode allows you to dial in any amount of asymmetry you like. I used 50% and it works like a charm. The ailerons now work under almost all conditions and I have no adverse yaw. The plane is much easier to control on takeoff and I haven't spun out since the change.

Piperfan
10-02-2006, 04:46 PM
The covering is ultracote. It has a shine. Not sure if its a lighter version of ultracote. I think fabric would ad some weight for sure. It would look more scale like though. I like solartex. Full size cubs use fabric and the paint on it creates a semi gloss/satin finish. 21st century fabric gives this effect. Its not bad to work with and stays put. Supercoverite is harder to work with.

MRM1
10-17-2006, 03:54 PM
PiperFan,

I just got my E-flight Cub a few weeks ago and have it just about assembled. I was very disappointed in the elevator linkage. That dual rod set up with the 2 collars just did not work for me. I could never get the collars to tighten up enough to securly hold the rods together, and the rods tended to shift and twist in the collars and throw the rods into a bind both at the Servo horn and in the rear.

I ended up getting everything where I wanted it and then wrapping the rods with thin copper wire and soldering them together. Then I drilled out one of the collars so it would fit over the copper and solder and cranked it down tight. I will add some epoxy to either end of the copper/solder tonight to keep it from sliding. It is not sliding now, but the solder did not adhere the rods very well. (I tend to do things in over kill).

But to me the controll surfaces in the tail feathers (both elevator and rudder) seem stiffer / more resistant than what I tend to like. Especially the Elevator. Does anyone else seem to have a touch of binding going on in the Elevator rods? I was very careful in getting my lines and linkages straight, and i did not use the stock hinges. I used Carl Goldburg hinges, much more flexible. But things still seem stiff. Not when the surfaces are free, so it is not the hinges, only with the rods installed. I think I will go to a metal gear servo on the elevator.

I hope to have it in the air by Thursday. I am a 2 year RC newbie, but have had about 15 planes in the past 2 years. Still have 12 of them and sold the others. I maiden all my own models, but it sounds like from what I read here that this plane is a hand full. I was hoping it was not. But I figure If I can fly an SA Cap 232 .40e, PAC Tiger Moth and several 3D planes, etc. this one should go fine too. I just did not like that spin story that Hal-i-chopter was speaking of.

Any way, Looking forward to a great Maiden later this week.

Mike

MRM1
10-17-2006, 04:21 PM
Nautilus 3,
Did you ever get the plane set up for under $1000 bucs? That is just way out of line price wise.

Here is a budget set up that should work fine. I have not flown it in the Cub yet, but have flown the motor in my Fun World 3D EP with a 13x8 prop. Plenty of power, so it should be great for the cub.

Cub on a Budget:

E-flight Cub - $140
Welgard C3548-05 (http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A2586784&pid=W815796)870kv motor (same weight as power 25) - $62
Dynam 40 amp ESC (http://www.xushobby.com/servlet/Detail?no=165)- $45 (can be found for less)
ParkBEC (http://www.dimensionengineering.com/ParkBEC.htm)- $19
Corona DC full range DSP RX (http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A3067652&pid=A3067647)- $34 w/ Crystal (call me crazy, I have no experience with the RX, but had to try it for the price - will do an extensive ground range test before fight - Have a HiTec 555 waiting but need the 6th channel of the Corona if it works.)
DN Power 2150 3s 15c packs (http://www.xushobby.com/servlet/Detail?no=205). 2 for $80 (why go broke in batteries)

Had all the servos in another plane that I will moth ball for a while, but am using HiTec HS-81s all around. Except I will switch out to an HS-81 MG on the Elevator tonight.

HS-81's (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXN676&P=ML)can be had for $16.50 and $22 for the MG. I have had great success with these servos in several 50 plus inch wing planes with large control surfaces.

All said and done I will have under $450 in the model totally set up and ready to fly. :D

I think I would avoid an LHS that quotes $1000 dollars for the setup. Hope this helps anyone.

Mike

MRM1
10-17-2006, 04:34 PM
Here is the performance of the $62 Welgard outrunner on my bench tested with an Eagle Tree Micro Power E-Logger. The tests are with 12x6, 12x8 and 13x8 size props. I used the same 3s2p 4000 mAh pack for each run up with out topping off for the next test, so by the time I got to the 13x8 it was down to about 12.3 resting volts. This would mean the 13x8 off the charger would probably do more than 400 watts.

I flew it with the 13 on my 55" Fun World 3D 53 oz plane. Did fairly well. Would hover but did not have very much over power for straight up pull outs from a hover. But vertical was nearly unlimited.

I will fly the Cub with an 11x7 Master Airscrew Wood prop. Should fly and look nice and scale. Should be under 30 amps. So I may only use one 3s 2150 15c pack.

Hal-i-chopter
10-17-2006, 07:46 PM
PiperFan,
I just did not like that spin story that Hal-i-chopter was speaking of.
Mike
Mike, No worries. Do the flaperon reflex as I described and keep your throws low (normal) at first and keep your speed up on maneuvers. Part of my problem is with pontoons you are adding significantly more weight and the stall speed goes up.

On the other hand, water is MUCH more forgiving than the ground. If you are going to crash, try to do it on water.

Unfortunately with winter in Minnesota coming I have taken the boat off the lake and I'm not willing to fly my float plane unless I can rescue it. So the wheels are going back on.

Hal

rea59
10-17-2006, 09:54 PM
PiperFan,

I just got my E-flight Cub a few weeks ago and have it just about assembled. I was very disappointed in the elevator linkage. That dual rod set up with the 2 collars just did not work for me. I could never get the collars to tighten up enough to securly hold the rods together, and the rods tended to shift and twist in the collars and throw the rods into a bind both at the Servo horn and in the rear.


The collars supplied were too big for the two rods.:eek: I replaced the set screws with two longer ones and when I was satisfied everything was secured I put epoxy over it all. Never had a problem since. :)

I had no issues at all with the tail feathers. :)

Hal-i-chopter
10-17-2006, 10:34 PM
The collars supplied were too big for the two rods.:eek: I replaced the set screws with two longer ones and when I was satisfied everything was secured I put epoxy over it all. Never had a problem since. :)

I had no issues at all with the tail feathers. :)

I simply used the collars and locktite, no problems.

You can see my first flight on water: www.robertsangelis.com (http://www.robertsangelis.com)

Hal

rea59
10-17-2006, 10:51 PM
[QUOTE=Hal-i-chopter;111756]
You can see my first flight on water:
/QUOTE]

Any first flight that dosen't invlove a crash landing is a good one. (awsome video):)

Hal-i-chopter
10-17-2006, 11:03 PM
[quote=Hal-i-chopter;111756]
You can see my first flight on water:
/QUOTE]

Any first flight that dosen't invlove a crash landing is a good one. (awsome video):)
More of a 'skipping stone' landing. :)

Since then I am over 50% on some nice smooth flared water landings.

MRM1
10-18-2006, 01:38 AM
Hey 'chopter' sounded like you where chopping water on the take off. what size prop was that? Beyond that, I need to get me some floats :D Have a lake and beach in the back yard.

Hal-i-chopter
10-18-2006, 02:44 PM
Hey 'chopter' sounded like you where chopping water on the take off. what size prop was that? Beyond that, I need to get me some floats :D Have a lake and beach in the back yard.
Yes, the prop hits the water every time prior to the plane getting up on the float 'steps'. I assumed this was unavoidable as I'm using the prop recommended by my LHS. This is very annoying because it sprays water all over the underbody of the plane and sometimes into the fusilage thereby getting the electronics wet. I have put a plastic window over the battery compartment door to cover the holes in the door. However this of course reduces the airflow.

I use a 12x6 propeller. Is there a smaller propeller that still has the same load on the motor? I have heard it is bad to use a prop that is too small.

MRM1
10-18-2006, 04:37 PM
I will be doing a run up and graph of my 11x7 prop today before my maiden flight tomorrow. I will post the results here so that you can see.

I think with the E-Flight Power 25 you could use and 11 sized and even a 10 size with no ill effects to the motor as long as you had the power to get the plane out of the water. My feeling about the use of the power 25 in this model is not so much for it to have power off the ground - in a land based application I understand the power 25 is overpowered for the plane. But rather so that the plane can ALSO fly off water. But even with that, there may still be enough power to get it off the water with an 11 size.


What kind of numbers are you seeing with the Power 25 and a 12x6? are they similar to what I posted for the WelGard C3548-05 on an APCe 12x6?WelGard C3548-05 / APCe 12x6 prop / 3s2p 4000 mAh 8c pack

Volts resting: 12.5

Volts under laod: 9.9

WOT Amps: 31.7

Watts: 316
Mike

Hal-i-chopter
10-18-2006, 04:48 PM
What kind of numbers are you seeing with the Power 25 and a 12x6? are they similar to what I posted for the WelGard C3548-05 on an APCe 12x6?

Mike
Mike, I don't have the equipment necessary to measure current or voltage and graph it. So I guess I will rely on your results. Can't I get a propeller with a smaller diameter but a fatter blade (or greater pitch) so I can get the same thrust at the same rpm as my 12x6? I am not really familiar with the pros and cons of blade dimensions and usually just use manufacturer's recommendation or my LHS recommendation. My 12x6 has plenty of power to get off the water, I would sacrifice some to avoid hitting the water with the blade. Imagine what would happen with a full scale Cub and smacking into the water with the prop.

Until your comment about the chopping of the water, I just accepted this as inevitable. But (duh!) I really shouldn't accept this condition, it wastes power, sounds bad, looks bad, splashes the plane and gets the electronics wet. In addition it forces me to add more power than I want to for take-off because I want to quickly get up on my pontoon steps to shorten the water chopping to minimum. I no longer want to accept this as inevitable.

Glacier Girl
10-18-2006, 05:02 PM
Well I decided to be different as usual.
Mine is set up for rough terrain. Tundra tires, and bungee supports for the gear.
Doesn't affect flight performance one bit. And sure wades thorugh the tall grass and rough soccer fields with ease. I'm running a 10x6 wood prop, eflight 25, CC 45, Hitec 81 servos and rx, and a 3s3700 pack.

I can hardly wait for the snow to come, I want to try out skis.

Hal-i-chopter
10-18-2006, 05:18 PM
Well I decided to be different as usual.
Mine is set up for rough terrain. Tundra tires, and bungee supports for the gear.
Doesn't affect flight performance one bit. And sure wades thorugh the tall grass and rough soccer fields with ease. I'm running a 10x6 wood prop, eflight 25, CC 45, Hitec 81 servos and rx, and a 3s3700 pack.

I can hardly wait for the snow to come, I want to try out skis.
Glacier Girl, sounds like you live up north like me (Minneapolis in my case). I too want to get skiis. Do you know where to get ones that would fit with this plane?

Also, I like the Tundra tires and bungee idea. I nose over in the tall grass. Where did you get those parts and I don't understand how the bundee works. I notice in your 3rd photo you can see a hole in the front of the engine cowling. Mine doesn't have that, is it for airflow?

Finally, the 10x6 wood prop might work for my problem hitting water when set up with pontoons. What is the difference with wood vs. plastic? Looks only?

MRM1
10-18-2006, 05:24 PM
Chopter - that is good then. I will go home in the next hour and do a run up with the 11x7. I think from what you are telling me about the power needed to get off the water, an 11x7 would be fine. The biggest concern with motors IMO is over amping them. And with a smaller prop the amps would be lower and flight times longer. I would guess if you go too small you would get into to many RPMs, but with an 11 size that would not be the problem at all.

Glacier - looks like you are going to Bush Pilot type wheels. that is so cool. The cub makes a pretty good Bush Pilot plane.

For anyone that wants to see the cub in a Bush pilot setting in action, see the move "The End of the Spear". It is a great movie and has some good cub flying action too :)

MRM1
10-18-2006, 05:27 PM
Chotper - yes the hole is for air flow. I just cut one in mine last night. With the Master Airscrew wood props the prop adaptor hole gets nearly covered up. Thus I thought more are will be better.

But if you are using a standard size APC or the like ... the prop adaptor hole probably is giving you adaquate air over the motor. Especially if your motor/battery is coming down just warm, you are OK. And flying off of water, as you have noted, throws water up. Why add another access point if you dont need it.

MRM1
10-18-2006, 07:16 PM
OK Chopter,
Just did a run up with the 11x7 prop. Note that on the previous graphs I did I used an older 3s2p 4000 mAh pack. The Rest volts was 12.5 but the underload volts was 9.9 at WOT.

My flight pack will be the DN Power 15c 3s 2150 packs X 2 = 4300 mAh in parallel. The resting volts were the same, but the WOT volts under load was just over 11 volts !! :eek: Check out the amps and watts of power to the motor with this much voltage.

Long and short of the story, if you are using a 3s2p pack (and possibly with just a 3s pack) of 3600 mAh plus go ahead and get your self a 11x7 prop and try it. I got plenty of power here with that set up.

Mike

Hal-i-chopter
10-18-2006, 07:55 PM
Mike,
I am using two Thunderpower 2400mah 3 cell packs in parallel. Is that what 3s2p means? Also, why is there a dip in the wattage in the middle of the graph?

It sounds like you think I have enough battery power. I think I will try GlacierGirl's 10x6 wooden prop because:

a) I like the looks of the prop.
b) 10" takes a whole inch off of the radius, 11" only takes 1/2 inch and I don't think that will eliminate my chopping of the water.
c) I am hoping that going to 10" only reduces the thrust by 20% at most. I assume the smaller prop will spin faster making up some of the loss of thrust.

I still wonder if I can get a smaller diameter prop with similar thrust by having fatter blades.

MRM1
10-18-2006, 08:21 PM
So you have 2 3 cell 2400 mAh packs. or 2 1200 mAh packs? If you have 2400 packs then together in parallel they equal 4800 mAh. You should be getting long flight times. My only concern was that the C rating of a single 3s pack would be too low if it was not at least a 3000 mAh pack with a 12 C rating. A 2100 15C is good for about 33 amps.

And yes, that would be a 3s (three cells in Series) 2p (2 packs in parallel)

Cant say on the "fatter blands" question, but I think you would be OK with a 10 as long as it flies. It will fly longer and cooler as long as you do not have to increase the power to near WOT to keep it in the air.

Mike

MRM1
10-18-2006, 08:29 PM
OH, the dip in the graph is where I cut the power back. When I was doing the run up I forgot to look at the amps and started to cut it but then powered it back up to look at the screen

Glacier Girl
10-18-2006, 09:46 PM
Hal-i
I can look up the info on the tires, If I remember correctly they were Dubro. And not cheap. Oh the bungee, is something the real cub uses. And something a lot of this models fliers are finding out why. You plunk her down a little too hard on landing and the gear will spread apart badly. My bungee is nothing more then 2 piano wires looped at the axle and one of the nylon tabs that secure the gear to the fuselage, helps keep the gear from spreading.
Here's what your gear will look like after one rough landing( not mine)
And what a bungee system looks like with the covers off. This one is on a much larger model, look close the O rings /bungee allow the gear to flex and then pull them back into place. Some of the guys are using a small spring in place of the O rings. Once covered you'd never know.

Oh and with the 10x6, roughly 1/2 throttle looks realistic, full is around 45 mph+. I tracked traffic on the highway with it. Posted 45, but nobody obeys it. :D

Glacier Girl
10-18-2006, 09:52 PM
Just checked, tires are Dubro, #425TLC. 4.25". and $29.45 for the set of 2.

MRM1
10-18-2006, 11:05 PM
Here is the final Pre-maiden pics of my Cub. Note the air hole in the front and the MAS 11x7 prop. Looks like it will be cloudy with a low ceiling early and about 1-4 mph winds in the AM. Not as good as earlier predictions, but still a go for maiden

Glacier Girl
10-19-2006, 12:22 AM
Looks good.
Question though. How much prop clearance do you have when the tail comes up? Might just be the pics, but my that prop looks awfully long.

MRM1
10-19-2006, 01:55 AM
Nah, its an 11 inch job. I am not sure, but it will be fine for tomorrow as I will be flying off of paved runway. But I think it is about 1.5 to 2 inches. Like chopter said, they recommend a 12 inch prop.

MRM1
10-19-2006, 07:34 PM
Full Maiden Flight Report - Not much, but some video.

E-Flight J-3 Cub (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6248668&postcount=202)

MountainFlyer
10-20-2006, 06:34 AM
I Run the APC11x7E on my Cub .. works great .. I find it as good as the 12x6 for power and thrust. It will take off at half throttle with ease and is a bit more friendly at takeoff than with the 12x6.. It also gives a bit more clearance on landing. Ive seen some other people running 10 inch props on them as well .. seems to have plenty of power but i haven't tried one yet.

MRM1
10-20-2006, 01:31 PM
OK, all this "10" talk has got be thinking. I guess I will have to try it now. I have a 10x7 MAS wood in the shop and will install it today and fly it tomorrow. Will do a run up to see what it does on the bench.

Man I should never read forums and leave well enough along :D

alienx
10-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Congrats and nice job.

Why does teh plane veer like that on take off? It looked like a nice mild roll. I'm not sure if the problem happened as the tail lifted (didn't pay that close attention). But it went from a nice smooth looking roll to a scary take-off. Didn't look like you were doing anything to cause it.

Anyone?

MRM1
10-20-2006, 09:29 PM
Touchy rudder. It was starting to track left and I over controlled to the right. The first take off, not on video was very smooth.

I am working on the skills :D

alienx
10-20-2006, 10:09 PM
Touchy rudder. It was starting to track left and I over controlled to the right. The first take off, not on video was very smooth.

I am working on the skills :D

Holy mackerel ...that was all yaw! I feel for you. I hate the feeling of full rates. Nice plane though. Looks like it will be a lot of fun.

Edit: I guess that's why some ther people are reporting flat spins with this plane. I never really could understand that with a Cub. But I guess the factory settings are pretty serious.

MRM1
10-25-2006, 07:48 PM
Chopter, are you still hanging around this thread?

I was wondering if anyone has had some actual first hand experience with a 10x7 size prop. Chopter was going to try a 10 size, but we never heard back from him. I have yet to have time to set one up, but hope to tonight or tomorrow for the weekend.

Did get to fly the cub again today. This was my third outing with her. She did very well on an 11x7 and 2 3s 2150 15c packs. Take offs where very good on a paved runway. I found in the video that I was over powering the take off - hence the near ground loop. It will take off with less than 1/2 throttle.

Flew 2 fights for a combined total of over 12 minutes on 1 charge. When done, the packs still had 10.2 volts at WOT on the watt meter and were still delivering a whopping 297 watts at 29 amps. So I guess I could have flown for another 3-5 minutes. I want to try a 10x7 to see if I can get the flight times up some more.

Mike

Taylorman
10-27-2006, 01:22 AM
MRM1,

Loved your video. I had the same problem w/overcontrolling the rudder on take-off. Start correcting for torque and as soon as the tail comes up, if you don't let up on the stick, ground loops to the right. I added expo to 45% and it helped but you still have to be quick. I've only flown mine off of a grass strip. would like to find a place with a paved runway to try.

I'm using an E-Flight 25, TP 3s 4200 Lipo, APC 10x7 Prop. Once it's in the air, No problems or bad habits and is a blast to fly! It's just the take-offs that are hairy!

BTW, gonna try Glacier Girls idea of bungee system for the landing gear.

MRM1
11-27-2006, 11:27 PM
Did get to try the MAS 10x7 wood prop this past weekend. Better ground control than the 11x7 MAS and no real problems with the power. I will stay with the 10x7 for longer flight times.

cwlflyingscot
12-14-2006, 03:20 PM
Hello Forum,

Im restarting my RC flying hobby that I left sit for the last 25 years. I was happy to see all the advances and popularity of electric flight. I would consider myself only one slight nick above a brand new rookie. I flew my 40 size trainer only a dozen times or so with only a few landings that I was able to call successful.

I wanted to pick an airplane that was 25 size, high wing, good looking, high quality and able to land on the water when outfitted with floats. I just got my e-flight J3 cub and now need to make some choices. I need it all and would like to make some good choices and would appreciate any advice I can get.

I need a radio, motor, ESC, battery, charger, props, power meter?, servos, .

Im interested in the Spectrum DX7 radio. Ive heard great things. One problem is it comes with the wrong size servos. Id need to repurchase or use larger than required servos. Could I use the DS821 Sport Digital Servos or will I need to get the MN48 mini servos? Where do I get these?

Is the recommended motor and ESC a good choice? E-Flight Outrunner 25 and 40 Amp brushless ESC.

Is the Li-Po battery worth the money? Id rather bite the bullet now and buy the best solution. It looks like I need a special Li-Po charger and it could not be used for other applications. When I mentioned a 4200 Li-Po to the local RC dealer he just about flipped. I want something that will give me plenty of flight time and reliability. How long does it take to recharge a battery like this? How many charges?

Im sure Ill have plenty more questions but Id like to get started on the right path. Thanks for your help in advance!

I'm also new to this type of Forum. Am I posting this correctly?

Taylorman
12-14-2006, 05:21 PM
cwlflyingscot,

I have one of the E-flite J3 Cub 25 and I can answer a couple of your questions,

I'm using the recommended Eflight outrunner 25 and 40 Amp ESC, TP4200 LiPo. With that set up, I have plenty of power and can get up 20minute flight times with good throttle management. I did try the NI-MH battery and was a little disappointed w/the performance vs weight. I normally see about a 45min recharge time with the TP4200. At the expense though, I only have one. While it's recharging, I fly one of my other planes.

A couple of the guys at my field have the spectrum radio and are very pleased. As far as the servo's are concerned, It seems to me that most everyone has their normal size servo's in storage and are using the smaller servo's in their electrics. Your local hobby shop should have them or you can order online.

As I mentioned, I set up my Cub using E-Flite's recommendations and have been very pleased with it's performance. It flies very scale and looks beautiful in the air. There were definitely some OOh's and Ah's from the club members when I brought it out to the field! The only thing I changed was going to the APC 11x7E prop instead of the 12" recommended.

Read the threads on this plane to get more idea's from previous posts.

Hal-i-chopter
12-14-2006, 10:35 PM
I am also using Thunder Power batteries but I have two 3s TP2100mah batteries in parallel instead of the 4200 because I also use them in a Trex450 helicopter. Both should work fine.

LiPos are the only way to go, but make sure you get a balancer. Thunderpower has different ones with different cell capacities. Make sure you think ahead the the maximum number of cells you will get in the near future and buy to suit that use.

Also, get a good charger. There are some combined charger/balancers on the market, but I have only used TP products so far because I have gotten good service when a problem has arisen.

I have the pontoons on my Cub. With the 12" prop I was getting the tip in the water until the pontoons got up on the step. This is annoying and splashes water over your nice plane and can work it's way inside. I have a 10" prop now and hope it has the efficiency but haven't tried it yet.

I also had a crash on takeoff that got my wings immersed in water. It took a lot to dry them out (water likes to trap itself in the nooks at the end of the wing).

I also notice that my wing coating is wrinkled now that it is winter and dry. I suspect that the water I got in the wings may have something to do with it. I am afraid to fly it because I am wondering if the wrinkles will cause laminar separation and stalling. Any comments?

MRM1
12-15-2006, 01:08 AM
No chopter, the wrinkles will not hurt any thing and you can get the out with a heat gun, just be careful that you keep your eye on the wing so you do not develop any twists .... or more specificly that you undo any that may either be there or may develop due to you heating the covering to remove the wrinkles.

Also, as I noted above, the 10x7 Master Air Screw Wood prop is doing me good.

mike

MRM1
12-15-2006, 01:35 AM
Hi cwlflyingscot,
Welcome to Watt Flyer, and welcome back RC flight.

For me electrics are the coolest ... and the only way to go especially if you are just starting out in the hobby again.

As to your questions, let me throw my .02 in the ring here:

Radios
I would say buy more than you need. Try to think ahead. If you get the bug really bad, a multi model digital programable radio is really nice. Before you know it you will have more models than you have models on the radio.

The DX7's are very nice, but here is the good and bad In My Opinion (IMO):
pros:
-glitch free
-no worry flying where you are
-no waiting for a channel to open

cons:
-Proprietary electronics... it will only work with Spectrum Recievers (RX)
-Thus Costs more
-limited on some programing features and timers.

I like the HiTec Optic 6 with Spectra modual. This lets me switch between any of the 72 mhz channels. I currently have RXs ranging in price from $16 - $55 on 3 different channels.

So do your home work and try to think thru the features you like. I like the Optic 6s throttle controlled stop watch. nice for electric flight.

Motors And ESC's
The recommeded set up is more than adaquate. But you can get as good or better power for about 1/2 to 3/4 the cost from the off brand motors and ESCS. I am flying a Welguard motor and a Dynam ESC in mine that is basicly the same or little better than the E-Flight set up. My total cost for Motor and ESC was $102.

Batteries and Chargers
I recommend staying away from batteries that are already in parallel. I Just buy Series packs, like 2s, 3s or 4s and wire them in parallel. For me they are more versitile. I can fly them in larger models or use them by themselves in smaller models.

Here is how it works - Take 2 3s packs of the same mAh (say 2100 mAh) and wire them red to red and black to black (in parallel) and you get a 3s2p (3 series 2 parallel) pack that is now 4200 mAh. So it is now good for twice the amp draw or double the flight time. You can make up a Y harness to do this all day long. I have 2 Y harnesses, one for flight the other for charging.

Battery deals are everywhere. I am using 2 DN Power 3s 2100 mAh 3s 15c packs in parallel in my Cub and they cost $80 delivered for both. They work great!!

As to chargers, if you are going to fly large models and large packs you need to look for a charger that will handle 3 to 5 cells or more and will charge that number of cells up to 5 or more amps. If not you will spend a lot of time trying to charge big packs with a charger that is taking too long.

If you charge a 4200 mAh pack at 4.2 amps, that is 1 C and that is a good range. It will take about an hour to 80 minutes to charge that pack. If your charger can only deliver 2 amps to that pack it will take twice as long.

I like the new Tritons. they are resonable and do a good job. They will not balance the cells though. You would need to do that manually thru the taps charing each cell one at a time from time to time.

But there are several good chargers out there. It really just depends on how deep your pockest are.

Power Meters:
A must for the serious electric enthusists. There are several to chose from but if you are a specs and stats junkie, bar none the best thing out there is either the Eagle Tree Mirco Power E-logger or the BN100 (I think it is called this). I have had an Astro Fight 101 Watt meter, but sold it for the E-Logger. A tec-ies delight. With the a laptop and the E-Logger Power Panel it is a super great tool. Graph your data, collect inflight info, etc. All for about the price of the Astro Fight.

Hope some of this helps
Mike

MRM1
12-15-2006, 01:42 AM
Is the Li-Po battery worth the money? Id rather bite the bullet now and buy the best solution. It looks like I need a special Li-Po charger and it could not be used for other applications. When I mentioned a 4200 Li-Po to the local RC dealer he just about flipped. I want something that will give me plenty of flight time and reliability. How long does it take to recharge a battery like this? How many charges?

Yes. But be careful with them. Yes they take a special charger, but you can get a multi chemistry charger that will charge anything. Again the Tritons will do this.

Also, 4200 mAh is not that large of a pack. Some LHS's (Local Hobby Shops) are just not up to speed on what it takes to fly large models.

Flight times:
Using the 2 DN Power 2100 mAh 3s Packs in parallel (a totla of 4200 mAh) I get about 11 - 15 minutes of flight time out of my Cub. This is about what a glow guy would hope for I think. These packs are good for about 300 or more cycles so for $80 for the 2 packs that comes out to about .26 cents per flight. I'd say that is pretty cheap:D

Hal-i-chopter
12-15-2006, 04:43 AM
Also, as I noted above, the 10x7 Master Air Screw Wood prop is doing me good.

mike
I was told emphatically by my LHS that wood props on water is a bad idea and it will be destroyed. He recommended I swap my 12x6 to a 10x10 composite which is what is on now.

I know that I can get wrinkles out with an iron but I've also heard that wrinkles are a winter phenomena. I was concerned it would be too shrunk for the summer if I got it right for winter.

DamianWalker
12-15-2006, 09:01 AM
Hi All

I was hoping for some advice on this model. I'm a fairly new rc pilot, with about 12 months experience. I'm currently flying a Slo-V, Slo Stick and an Easy Star. I had chosen the Phoenix Rainbow as my Xmas present, but unfortunately has been put on back order and doesn't look like it will arrive in time. My LHS has an E-Flite J3 25 Cub in stock and was wondering if you guys think the cub would be a good substitute for the rainbow?

Do you guys know the Rainbow model? I think it's called the Graupner Cadet in the US. From my research it has similar wing span, weight, power required. Apparently the rainbow is a graceful slowish flyer and makes a good aileron trainer. Does the cub fit this bill?

Thanks for your advice.
Cheers
Damian

rea59
12-15-2006, 09:16 AM
I don't know the Rainbow but I would recommend the Cub to anyone. Very scale appearance and flight characteristics. Read through this forum and you'll see a lot of appreciation for this plane.

DamianWalker
12-15-2006, 09:25 AM
Thanks for your reply. I have read through this thread and as many others I can find. I know how good the cub is, I was more concerned with my level of experience.

rea59
12-15-2006, 09:39 AM
If you can fly and land the the three you mentioned then your probably ready. This cub was my first plane with ailerons.:D I would let some of the more experienced members comment as to the similarities with your current planes.:)

Don Sims
12-15-2006, 10:12 AM
Damian, you'll adapt to it easily.

MRM1
12-15-2006, 12:57 PM
I was told emphatically by my LHS that wood props on water is a bad idea and it will be destroyed. He recommended I swap my 12x6 to a 10x10 composite which is what is on now.

I know that I can get wrinkles out with an iron but I've also heard that wrinkles are a winter phenomena. I was concerned it would be too shrunk for the summer if I got it right for winter.

Yes Hal, I would see how water and wood would be bad. I was not advocating a wood prop per say, I was noting the fact that a smaller diameter prop of any material would fly the plane. And per our discussion earlier with your 12 prop hitting the water, I thought that would be a good thing.

As to wringles and the winter .... for that I just cant say ... I have never had that experience here :D :cool: Good luck with it.

Taylorman
12-15-2006, 01:48 PM
I was the same way, in that I returned to the hobby after many years. The major thing that helped me get "back in the saddle" was to get a good flight simulator to practice with. The second was to hook up w/another pilot with a buddy cord between transmitters. Having an "instructor pilot" who could take over in an instant probably did the most good as far as keeping me flying. We tried the "hand the TX back and forth" in case of trouble and that didn't work as well (thank God for CA).

As mentioned the Cub flies very scale. Mine does have a tendancy to ground loop on take off if I use more than 3/4 throttle though. I think others have mentioned the same thing in previous threads, so be careful there. Other than that it's a great plane to fly!

Hal-i-chopter
12-15-2006, 03:56 PM
Hi All

I was hoping for some advice on this model. I'm a fairly new rc pilot, with about 12 months experience. I'm currently flying a Slo-V, Slo Stick and an Easy Star. I had chosen the Phoenix Rainbow as my Xmas present, but unfortunately has been put on back order and doesn't look like it will arrive in time. My LHS has an E-Flite J3 25 Cub in stock and was wondering if you guys think the cub would be a good substitute for the rainbow?

Thanks for your advice.
Cheers
Damian
Damian, Before I flew my Cub I had no experience with a scale plane, instead I had flown a Slow Stick and some 3D foamies (Tensor & ShockFlyer) and a Trex450 helicopter. On my first flight with the Cub I crashed when I took a turn too slow and put too much rudder and aileron simultaneously. Subsequently I crashed on take off when I found the plane wasn't responding to aileron as expected. When an assymetrical wing stalls and loses lift it is instantaneous and dramatic. A foamie never does this so I wasn't expecting it.

But this problem can be easily avoided by:

1. Keep the speed up over stall speed on turns, make the turns gradual until you know the limits of the plane.
2. Use 'flaperon' to add differential aileron. This will prevent adverse yaw and reduce the tendency to stall upon take off. I have posted on my experience with this and I really recommend it, it vastly improves aileron response at near stall speeds and climbouts (I used 50% more servo throw on the 'up' aileron than the 'down' aileron).
3. Practice with a simulator (however that only goes so far, my G3 simulator had nowhere near the tendency to stall as the real thing.
4. To test the limits of the plane, do it high enough to recover from a stall.

I don't want to discourage you because the Cub is a beautiful looking plane and flies like a real plane so it is a lot of fun compared to the Slow Stick (which can get pretty boring and certainly doesn't look or fly like a 'real' plane). If you use the differential 'flaperon' adjustment right from the start you should not have a problem.

Hal-i-chopter
12-15-2006, 03:59 PM
Mine does have a tendancy to ground loop on take off if I use more than 3/4 throttle though.Taylorman, what is this 'ground loop' you speak of? I find I need near 100% throttle to get the Cub off the water with pontoons quickly. I haven't found higher throttle to be worse.

MountainFlyer
12-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Taylorman, what is this 'ground loop' you speak of? I find I need near 100% throttle to get the Cub off the water with pontoons quickly. I haven't found higher throttle to be worse.


He's speaking of the Cubs tendency to want to swap ends as you start your takeoff roll out, just as the tail begins to lift with the wheels on it ( not going to be an issue with floats ) its even worse on a rough runway ( like my gravel road runway:) ) Ive found that a smaller prop ( like a 10 or 11 inch) helps alleviate this though... Its just something you have to get use to when flying with the wheels on it... allot of expo in the rudder also helps, that is if your TX has expo for the rudder channel.

Hal-i-chopter
12-15-2006, 08:00 PM
MountainFlyer, thanks. Since I will be putting on wheels now that the lake is frozen I am interested in this.

Swap ends? I apologize but I'm still not sure what is going on. Do you mean the plane does a back-loop (a 'gainer' in diving terminology) just as you rotate? The tail swaps ends with the prop?

But sounds like I will be OK having just reduced my prop size due to hitting the water.

MRM1
12-15-2006, 09:15 PM
Ground Loops is the official term for what may also be discribed as "swap ends" or doughnuts (like what red-necks do in their cars and trucks :D). Upon power up and take off the plane will start to spin around and must be compensated for with rudder. It also helps to start with up elevator to force the tail wheel on to the ground in the beginning and then ease off the elevator as the speed increases. As the tail lifts you may find you need rudder to keep it tracking straight. It just takes practice.

Many tail draggers have this tendency, some more than others. The Hobbico Superstar EP is another one that will do it. You just have to learn how to fly using the right amount of rudder on take off to counter the torque and P - factor created by the prop.

And yes, a smaller prop helps ... this is one reason I kept suggesting a 10 size prop.

Mike

Hal-i-chopter
12-15-2006, 09:30 PM
Ahh, a horizontal donut, not a vertical one. Yaw rather than Pitch. My problems on take off have been more due to one of the wings dipping and the ailerons lacking control. This has been solved by the differential 'flaperon'. However I'm sure this propeller effect had some impact as well. Really want to see how the 10" prop works.

DamianWalker
12-15-2006, 10:46 PM
Thanks for all your advice. It looks like I'll be joining the Cub club. :D

I have a Futaba FF9 so setting up flaperons won't be a problem. Does anyone use an aileron/rudder to help with the yaw in turns? If so, what % would you use?

Taylorman
12-16-2006, 12:21 AM
I was going to use aileron/rudder coupling at first, but decided not because I didn't want my left thumb to get "Lazy". I guess I'd rather be more of a "Hands On" flyer. If I were you, I wouldn't couple the two. It takes a little practice, but get used to controlling the rudder in your turns to counter adverse yaw. IMO it makes us better pilots.:)

MountainFlyer
12-16-2006, 01:23 AM
Thanks for all your advice. It looks like I'll be joining the Cub club. :D

I have a Futaba FF9 so setting up flaperons won't be a problem. Does anyone use an aileron/rudder to help with the yaw in turns? If so, what % would you use?


Heh.. I have no fear of being lazy so .. I'd start out with 30% and work up from there until you find the mix that feels right for you .. I run 60% most of the time sometimes higher. only thing you want to watch is not to get too much rudder mixing with the ailerons under the wrong conditions you can get into a very ugly stall at low speeds so be three mistakes high when your testing to see how much is too much :D

MRM1
12-16-2006, 03:03 AM
how does a mix like aileron/rudder mix effect a roll or other manuver? or do you switch it off for anything other than coordinated turns?

Mike

MountainFlyer
12-16-2006, 03:52 AM
Actually with a small amount of rudder/aileron mixing rolls are a bit crisper.. with allot of rudder it turns it into a barrel roll.. a bad combo is allot of R/A mixing then throw it hard left or right while pulling full up elevator. if your going slow it will instantly stall and snap over into a death spiral :eek: ... something you want to try at least three mistakes high..
This Cub seems to needs a bit of rudder input to kick it into a turn imo It will tend to drag its tail if you just use the ailerons to roll then elevator to pull it through. Seems to be much more fluid if you have a bit of rudder action to kick that tail out for the turn.. I prefer to use the A/R mixing for this... I can do it manually with the left stick .. but it tends to look rather awkward when I do .. although Im sure I could do it better if some one would build a TX that had rudder peddles instead if the stick ;)

It totally depends on what im doing if i turn it on or not normally i have A/R mixing off on takeoff then turn it on once im at cruising speed if the mixing is down around 30% to 50% I usually leave it on.

Hal-i-chopter
12-18-2006, 10:23 PM
I have a Futaba FF9 so setting up flaperons won't be a problem.
Damian, just want to make sure you understand what I used flaperon for. It is not so I can use the ailerons as flaps. It is so that when I use the aileron, the 'up' aileron will move 50% more than the 'down' aileron. Down aileron typically acts as an air brake and causes what is called 'adverse yaw'. This is when you get the opposite yaw than you want when you use your ailerons.

Hal-i-chopter
12-18-2006, 10:32 PM
....only thing you want to watch is not to get too much rudder mixing with the ailerons under the wrong conditions you can get into a very ugly stall at low speeds so be three mistakes high when your testing to see how much is too much :D
My first flight with the Cub was my first crash due to too much rudder on a slow speed turn. My rudder thumb was trained on a Tensor foamie biplane which requires lots of rudder just to get around the course. It never would stall so I could slam in rudder and aileron and add throttle and turn on a dime. While making a lazy slow speed turn with my new Cub I was coming a little close to a baseball backstop in our field. So I kicked in rudder and aileron and it dropped out of the sky like the wings had been sheared off. Hmmm....so that's what a stall is....

But I agree with Taylorman that it's best to learn to use rudder manually if possible. Maybe a tiny little bit of coupling is OK, haven't tried it myself.

Hal-i-chopter
12-18-2006, 10:39 PM
I flew the Cub (changed pontoons for wheels) this weekend on our frozen lake. I am using the smaller 10 x 10 propeller and it seems to have plenty of thrust, so I'm hopeful I won't experience the annoying splashing of water upon takeoff when I get the pontoons back on.

However I was not ready for how much lighter the plane is. When coming in for a landing I used the same speed that I have to use for the heavier pontoon loading. When I flared I pulled the stick back as normal but too far back for the light loading and instead of landing it would shoot back into the air. Finally the speed would really bleed off and it would bounce hard on the ice. I bent the landing gear a few times that way. (Is there a better landing gear with shock absorbers?)

Eventually I got down the softer touch on the elevators and would bleed off enough speed before flaring.

DamianWalker
12-18-2006, 10:45 PM
Damian, just want to make sure you understand what I used flaperon for. It is not so I can use the ailerons as flaps. It is so that when I use the aileron, the 'up' aileron will move 50% more than the 'down' aileron. Down aileron typically acts as an air brake and causes what is called 'adverse yaw'. This is when you get the opposite yaw than you want when you use your ailerons.
Thanks for the info. Isn't this call aileron differential?

BTW: I pick my cub on tomorrow :D , but it has to be wrapped and put under the Christmas tree, so I won't get to drool over it until xmas day. :(

Hal-i-chopter
12-18-2006, 10:58 PM
Thanks for the info. Isn't this call aileron differential?

BTW: I pick my cub on tomorrow :D , but it has to be wrapped and put under the Christmas tree, so I won't get to drool over it until xmas day. :(
Damian, yes, that is what it is called, but with my Futaba T7CAP Tx I have to get into the 'flaperon' menu and turn on flaperon to get this 'differential' behavior. In the same menu you can also program in flaps using ailerons if you wish. I don't use that because I'm not sure what the response will be and I've heard that small models don't really benefit from flaps.

If anyone has had good experience with aileron flaps for the purpose of slow speed takeoff and landing with the Cub please let me know. I prefer not to test it myself. :o

DamianWalker
12-18-2006, 11:08 PM
(Is there a better landing gear with shock absorbers?)
You could always do what Glacier Girl did back in October. http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=111965&postcount=55

I think I'll do something similar with my wheel setup.

Hal-i-chopter
12-18-2006, 11:12 PM
Yes, I was thinking of that rig when I asked the question. But I don't know where she got the parts, the balloon tires and shock absorbers.

I think even the balloon tires would help. But when it is really cold (like it is on the ice) I think plastic and foam gets pretty stiff.

Or....I could learn how to land the damn thing!

DamianWalker
12-18-2006, 11:42 PM
Isn't it just piano wire (read springs) streched in between the undercarriage wires? You could probably just solder the some springs onto the undercarriage wires.

Taylorman
12-19-2006, 01:12 PM
At one of the fields I fly, many times you're landing in a cross wind. Because of the size of the landing area, I have to "slip" it in by cross controling. That's the other reason I don't couple rudder and aileron. Slip's are a good way to lose altitude without gaining forward speed.

Glacier Girl
12-19-2006, 02:41 PM
Yes, I was thinking of that rig when I asked the question. But I don't know where she got the parts, the balloon tires and shock absorbers.

I think even the balloon tires would help. But when it is really cold (like it is on the ice) I think plastic and foam gets pretty stiff.

Or....I could learn how to land the damn thing!


Bungees are nothing more then heavy springs with heat shrink around the spring part. Loops around the main leg of the gear at the wheel, and under one of the screws at the fuselage. Definitely helps.
Tires are Dubros, part #425, I think.
They make a world of difference when flying and landing on rough grass fields.

Lastly, GG is an airplane, P38. She's a girl, I am not. :D

Hal-i-chopter
12-19-2006, 04:19 PM
Lastly, GG is an airplane, P38. She's a girl, I am not. :D
Thanks for the info. I was a little worried I might be assuming too much by the name 'Glacier Girl'. :o

Really the number of female RC pilots is so incredibly small as to be non-existent. If you further sub-divide to RC helicopter pilots I bet you won't find 1 female out of 100 pilots. I know of one female RC pilot (she's an RF engineer of course) and she doesn't fly helis.

My daughter and I were wondering recently what it is about this hobby that is such an incredibly efficient gender filter.

rea59
12-19-2006, 10:09 PM
My daughter and I were wondering recently what it is about this hobby that is such an incredibly efficient gender filter.

First I'd like to thank Glacier Girl for the info on the tires. I think they will help me a lot on my grass field.

Second I think women are probably smarter than men. (hope I didn't offend anyone):o Men don't think anything about putting a couple thousand dollars down to put a lift kit and over-sized tires on their truck. :D Women on the other hand look at a "toy" plane for $200 then add motor $$$ then add radio $$$, servos $$$ and batteries $$$$$ thinking :confused: (I can spend that money better).

Really my daughter would love to fly my planes. Introducing young kids (male or female) is the best way to "grow" our "sport":D

Taylorman
12-20-2006, 10:42 PM
My wife usually says; "will you quite being a pest??!!!", points to my R/C planes and says "Why don't you go to the flying field for a while!!!!" I had some psyops training when I was in the military.....hee, hee!:D

Hal-i-chopter
12-21-2006, 10:43 PM
My wife usually says; "will you quite being a pest??!!!", points to my R/C planes and says "Why don't you go to the flying field for a while!!!!" I had some psyops training when I was in the military.....hee, hee!:D
Veeery clever.

viking
12-27-2006, 03:31 AM
Hi there folks. I don't get to post on here very much but I just gotta post what I'm doing with my Eflite Cub.

Installed a Futaba rate gyro to my Chan 4. Turned it way down to act as a dampner. Still has great scale turns, still lands great, but the take offs are like BUTTER. Mind you I caught so much flak about the gyro by my fellow pilots I almost took it out before I flew it. After they saw it fly without the crazy ground loops and pucker factor 5 takeoffs they want to install them in their tail draggers. I fly an SE5A slimer on a regular basis and have had MANY takeoffs that almost ended in disaster due to trying to keep it straight on the runway and tranfering that rudder input after rotation. I find it is much more manageable in a larger bird, so I will not install a gyro in my SE5A. But due to the Eflite J3's size and weight I opted for the gyro. Maybe it's cheating, maybe it's insurance that my cub will be around for another day of flying. I have seen a gyro intalled in many warbirds to dampen yaw and take some of the danger out of a "ground loopy" bird. I fly out of a small field and have very little room for error on rotation. Landings are done between 2 trees less that 15 feet apart. So to me it was an upgrade that had to be done.

Here's what I'm running: PJS 3D 1900 with and 11X7 wood prop, 45 Amp Castle ESC,Ultimate BEC, Futaba G190 gyro, LSX 21 Battery Saver, Hyperion 3C 4200 Lipo, HS-225BB Servos, Tundra balloon tires when not on floats.

MRM1
12-27-2006, 06:23 AM
And what a bungee system looks like with the covers off. This one is on a much larger model, look close the O rings /bungee allow the gear to flex and then pull them back into place. Some of the guys are using a small spring in place of the O rings. Once covered you'd never know.
:D

Do you have a shot of the bungee system on the eflight cub? what is under those covers? I am going to add this to my cub as I do the repairs from my stall crash a few weeks ago. Broke the cowl up pretty good, cracked the windsheild and busted up a wing tip.

Hal-i-chopter
12-27-2006, 03:25 PM
Do you have a shot of the bungee system on the eflight cub? what is under those covers? I am going to add this to my cub as I do the repairs from my stall crash a few weeks ago. Broke the cowl up pretty good, cracked the windsheild and busted up a wing tip.
Have you seen this? http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...5&postcount=55 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=111965&postcount=55) GlacierGirl used these big tires from Dubros (part 425) and bungees are piano wire bent into coiled springs with heatshrink over them.

MRM1
12-27-2006, 03:42 PM
Yea, I saw that, but cannot see how: either the springs are made or how they are attached. but got this link and I think it is the same set up.

See post 160

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4792293

Hal-i-chopter
12-27-2006, 04:01 PM
MRM,

Thanks. I still can't see how he is attaching to the wheel ends.

I was trying to find the big tires that GlacierGirl referred to. I found this http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=DUB425TLC/101.0

However, I am confused. It has 3 sets of tires, but if you go to order it looks like there is only one wheel at 4 1/4" for $29.95. Is that the right one?

MRM1
12-27-2006, 04:29 PM
no that is a pic of all 3 sizes that dubro makes, but you are ordering just 2 of the 4 1/4 size for that price. That is the same price (or close) to what Tower sells them for.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=cub+wheels&FVPROFIL=++

Also, I think with the piano wire, he is just making a half loop (like a hook) and connecting them to the bottom of the LG just before they bend for the wheel axle. ie. hooking them just below the weld of the front and rear supports. At the top he just made a single bend and stuck them up under the LG plastic locks ... at least that is what it looks like to me??:confused:

MRM1
12-27-2006, 04:31 PM
for me I think I will go with the 1/5th scale 3.375 size. That is still bigger than the stock wheels and costs less too :D

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD798&P=7

Hal-i-chopter
12-27-2006, 04:43 PM
I like! I thought 4 1/4" is a little too big.

Glacier Girl
12-27-2006, 09:30 PM
You'd be surprised how right those big swampers look on the Cub.;)

Ok on the bungees. Go to the local hardware or some place like Lowes/ Home Depot. Look in the dept that handles hardware items. Look for a fairly stout spring that doesn't have the ends bent on them, just two straight ends. Bent a small hook on each end of the spring. One loops over the main gear rod at the wheel, where the rear brace attaches, and the other goes under one of the landing gear retainer screws. To make it look somewhat real, use a piece of heat shrink over the spring part, warm it up a little and fold over the ends.

2 big things. #1 use a slightly longer screw then originally used on the gear retainer that the bungee hooks too. The stock ones will pull loose.
#2 watch the solder joint where the rear supports attach to the main gear supports at the wheels. They tend to not be connected to well, and will let the gear rotate backwards if they come loose. Don't ask me how I know this. :o I took mine off, cleaned the paint off and silver soldered them in place.

If need be I can pull down the Cub and take some shots of it, if something isn't clear.

Glacier Girl
12-27-2006, 09:39 PM
Here this might help too.

Glacier Girl
12-27-2006, 09:43 PM
See here's a regular Cub and one with swampers, these are real birds.
The big tires look better. LOL

MRM1
12-28-2006, 12:46 AM
Thanks GG, that helps a lot. I will be setting mine up soon.

Mike

Hal-i-chopter
12-28-2006, 03:12 PM
Super GG, nice illustration. I purchased the Dubro 1/5th wheels last night at my LHS for $20 (saved on shipping). They look like a substantial improvement over my other wheels even if they are not the 4 1/4" size. They are pretty heavy, of course nowhere near the weight of my pontoons! The only thing is the rubber is pretty hard, and on the ice I imagine even harder at near-zero temps. Another customer at the shop was looking for similar wheels but rejected these because they are fairly stiff.

Next stop, the hardware store for springs.:)

Glacier Girl
12-28-2006, 03:45 PM
Worse comes to worse, they do make tires that are inflaitable. Don't remember where I got them from, but I have several in this size range. Come with a tiny valve stem (?) so you can add air to them. I guess you could use something like this and run low pressure to help smooth out a bumpy condition from the cold.

MRM1
12-28-2006, 04:13 PM
Do you think the larger, heavier wheels will effect the CG? Mine is slightly tail heavy and I was considering adding some clay to the cowling. Will these wheels make it more tail heavy or will they help to tip the scale toward the nose?

Mike

Hal-i-chopter
12-28-2006, 04:19 PM
The wheels are in front of the CG, so they will move the CG forward, but so slightly I don't think you will notice. You just move the batteries back a hair to compensate. My batteries are right up against the firewall.

MRM1
12-28-2006, 05:33 PM
Yes mine too, and I wish I could get them a little further forward to tip the model toward nose heavy - ish. So perhaps the wheels will help a little.

mike

MRM1
12-28-2006, 05:37 PM
I was just sitting here wondering (yes that could be dangerous). I wonder if you could use flying wire and crimps instead of piano wire to set up the springs. I have a nice roll of that at the house that I used as extra on my PAC Tiger Moth. It stays tight and does not slip when crimped. I think I may look into trying this.

Mike

Eric_N57105
12-28-2006, 11:30 PM
Worse comes to worse, they do make tires that are inflaitable. Don't remember where I got them from, but I have several in this size range. Come with a tiny valve stem (?) so you can add air to them. I guess you could use something like this and run low pressure to help smooth out a bumpy condition from the cold.

Trexlers. I'm shopping for a 48-52" Super Cub, and a set of these would be just the thing.

http://www.trexlerballoonwheel.com/

Eric

Radbuster
01-02-2007, 10:49 PM
Getting back to flying (not rolling), am I hearing that too much rudder mixing with ailerons to bad? I have a Dynam Cessna foamie & was advised to couple the rudder to the ailerons control (1st U.S. RC Flight School advise.) I'm used to flying a V tail without ailerons; and am nervous about having to worry about rudder along with everything else. Any Wattflyer advise?

Hal-i-chopter
01-02-2007, 11:26 PM
Radbuster. some of what you have read pertains to the scale J3 Piper Cub, in which case too much rudder with ailerons can cause a stall spin (I know based on my first flight and crash).

Also, it is generally agreed that you should learn rudder control and mixing allows one to skip over that little skill.

With a foamie, they are much less prone to stall and when they do you hardly notice they have stalled. (not so the scale Cub which basically drops out of the sky like a rock when stalled).

So if you are nervous about rudder maybe you want to have some mixing.

MountainFlyer
01-03-2007, 12:23 AM
Getting back to flying (not rolling), am I hearing that too much rudder mixing with ailerons to bad? I have a Dynam Cessna foamie & was advised to couple the rudder to the ailerons control (1st U.S. RC Flight School advise.) I'm used to flying a V tail without ailerons; and am nervous about having to worry about rudder along with everything else. Any Wattflyer advise?

It totally depends on the plane. Some aircraft don't mind allot of rudder mixing with the ailerons... and some do, but ive found that its not the A-R mixing that will bite you .. its a combo of low speed with elevator and excessive aileron/rudder input simultaneously that will cause the plane snap into a stall and if your at low altitude its almost a guarnanteed crash. Some models don't mind allot of A-R mixing... and some do. The J-3 Cub 25 is one that doesn't like allot of mixing. but doesn't mind a small amount ( like 30%) A small amount of Aileron/rudder mixing is much less prone to induce a spin though ( 30% or less on your A-R mixing on your computer TX ). But its best to try it manually first and at altitude to see how the aircraft responds. the J-3 Cub 25 recovers rather quickly for its size. Usually one of the first things i do when I maiden a new model after ive got it trimmed out and made sure theres no problems is to take it up three mistakes high and slow it down and stall it and see what it does .. best to know right away and at altitude if its going to do anything "unexpected" when stalled, that way you don't get bit on your first landing. ;)

Dereck
01-03-2007, 01:59 AM
Getting back to flying (not rolling), am I hearing that too much rudder mixing with ailerons to bad? I have a Dynam Cessna foamie & was advised to couple the rudder to the ailerons control (1st U.S. RC Flight School advise.) I'm used to flying a V tail without ailerons; and am nervous about having to worry about rudder along with everything else. Any Wattflyer advise?

Okay - I'm building my third electric Cub (can claim four Cubs if the profile LoCal rubber scale version was allowed in ;) ) - GP's Electri-Cub, Sig's 1/5th and now Sig's 1/6th clipwing.

First thing to try, given your CG, control throws and other such boring stuff is all sorted, is some aileron differentail. Downgoing aileron creates a bunch more drag than upgoing, this pulls the wing back - "adverse yaw" in technospeak. You fudge around with your pushrods or tranny mixing until your ailerons go up three or four times what they go down, ending up with about the same amount of throw, but less down than up.

That took care of the adverse yaw on the big Cub - it was so slight that it was hard to finesse it out with the rudder, differential on aileron was a far easier fix.

Rudder flying - if you don't use it, you might as well leave the servo out and glue up the rudder. Humbly suggest that if you do so, you either hand-toss your Cub or let us know when you are going to fly, so we can all come and have a laugh :) Learning to use the rudder is like learning to use anything - RTFM (Read The Flippin' Manual), then go forth and practise to see what it does and what you can get out of it.

Viking's idea of a rudder gyro is a great one I've heard of several times over the years - it once was used to tame a vintage FF model with RC. Having the wheels ahead of the prop made it pretty well nigh impossible to ROG, it just ground looped. However, it makes the model heavier, costs more and removes that warm fuzzy feeling you get doing down the centreline take offs and landings in crosswinds that ground all lesser pilots :D

Mostly I am amazed at the mere suggestion of a ready to fly model requiring anything so demanding as trimming out and alteration of controls - aren't these things supposed to be perfect? All the "Buy RC" mags say they are :rolleyes:

Regards

Dereck

Glacier Girl
01-03-2007, 11:09 AM
Eric, yeah the Trexlers are similar to what I have laying around.

As for rudder mixing, to each his own, I mix with my thumbs.
But as for the rudder itself, you need to learn to use it. It's a must for take offs unless you like 90 degree turns on the runway, or just like to make circles.

Taylorman
01-03-2007, 11:52 AM
I agree. Learn to use the rudder. The J3 25 likes to ground loop (at least mine does to the right) so it's key to use the rudder for take offs. If you have a heavy left thumb, use expo to help you out. Side slips need opposite rudder to keep you on track and is a good way to lose altitude without picking up airspeed. If you are crabbing into the wind during a cross wind landing, you'll want to use rudder just before touchdown to straighten the flight path before the wheels touch. IMHO learning to use rudder is key to being a good pilot.:)

Hal-i-chopter
01-03-2007, 05:29 PM
Besides Derick's suggestion of 'Reading the Flipping Manual' I would suggest a lot of simulator practice if you have one. Unfortunately I have found that neither the G3 nor the Phoenix simulators can simulate a Cub stall with *any* realism, which is why I was caught by surprise the first time.

However you can certainly learn how to use the rudder with simulators. Create a heavy crosswind for starters. Another is to put in a lot of rudder trim one way or another and you will be forced to use your left thumb to correct.

MRM1
01-06-2007, 04:58 AM
Well got all the crash repair done. you can see in the cowl close up where the big crack was. i was missing paint and had chipped it down to the cloth in a few places. A little bondo and some more Hanger 9 spray and good as new.

Also got the "Swampers" GG taked about (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=129645&postcount=126). Not quite as big, but these are the 3 3/8 ones. They added an extra 3.5 oz to the model, but for me this was good as it added the weight forward of the CG, so it should fly a little more stable as the motor I installed in it was a little liter than the suggested set up. Thus it was slightly tail heavy.

Nigel Thomas
01-10-2007, 03:53 AM
Piperfan,
I have a soft spot for the old cub. I have the World Models 1200mm wing span and it is a beauty. I was very keen to get the e-flite model like yours but have jumped to the Hanger 9 2m wing span converted to electric. I have not got it yet but will let you know how it goes. Does any one have the Hanger 9 model with an electric motor conversion?

MRM1
01-11-2007, 04:45 AM
The hanger 9 electric version with the Power 46 does not appear to have been released yet as an electric ARF. It is scheduled to be in Feb 2007:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HAN4350

Nigel Thomas
01-11-2007, 09:10 PM
Yes, I found that out while checking my local shops. One of them was good enough to offer to remove the dirty gas motor and swap it for the e-flite 46. I will also need to replace the butchered cowl. It may work out a bit more costly but it seems that Australia will only get the e-package in June and I can't wait that long.

SilberIgel
02-13-2007, 01:26 PM
Yesterday, after five months 'curing' on the garage wall, a fellow club member helped me get my J-3 in the air. It was a sort of a 'checkout' flight using a buddy box. It flys....well... like a Cub. Slowish and gracefull.

The "Cubbie" flew beautifully and it just looks great. Plenty of power with the "E-fright" 25 and ESC. No trimming necessary! The only improvement is to add about 1/8 to 1/4" more up elevator on low rates from the factory settings.

The only 'agony' with this ARF was the placement of the the two batteries. I was probably overly concerned but I thought it important to make positive retention system so they would neither slide forward or back during flight.... hence the long delay in getting it airborne.

Nigel Thomas
02-13-2007, 09:06 PM
Yes they are certainly a gracefull plane. Very relaxing to fly. I recently flew my Hanger 9 50 J3 and it flew perfectly. The suggested 4 cell lipo was OK but when I added a cell it just gave me that extra performance and climb.
It is always a relief to get my big 8 cell aerobatic plane on the ground and switch over to the floater.
You will have tons of fun!!!:)

Aussie E-Flite
02-18-2007, 08:27 AM
Looks great Piper, this one is on my list - have to agree that E-flite seem to be doing most things right.

Nigel Thomas
02-18-2007, 09:19 PM
Just a quick warning to all who have purchased the hanger 9 Plug n Play J3 Piper cub. I had a flight over the weekend and on landing one of the wheels came off. I managed to land on 1 untill the last few metres avoiding any damage.
I would strongly suggest that you take the wheels off the rims and apply a bit of thread lock to the grub screw that holds the stopper on the axil.
Otherwise a beautiful plane to fly.

Flyon_rc
04-11-2007, 06:20 AM
[quote=viking;129363]

Installed a Futaba rate gyro to my Chan 4. Turned it way down to act as a dampner. Still has great scale turns, still lands great, but the take offs are like BUTTER. Mind you I caught so much flak about the gyro by my fellow pilots I almost took it out before I flew it. After they saw it fly without the crazy ground loops and pucker factor 5 takeoffs they want to install them in their tail draggers.

Flyon_rc
04-11-2007, 06:23 AM
[quote=viking;129363]

Installed a Futaba rate gyro to my Chan 4. Turned it way down to act as a dampner. Still has great scale turns, still lands great, but the take offs are like BUTTER. Mind you I caught so much flak about the gyro by my fellow pilots I almost took it out before I flew it. After they saw it fly without the crazy ground loops and pucker factor 5 takeoffs they want to install them in their tail draggers.

So Viking, your the one that started me on this adventure!!!!

I have Just finished building the E-Flight Electric J3 Piper Cub. They are infamous for ground looping. I read a forum somewhere, where the problem had been solved by use of a Standard Rate Gyro.

My LHS talked me into buying a G90 Sub-Micro Gyro by E-Flite,(Actually a store in Chandler, AZ) anyway this device can act as either a Heading Lock or a Standard Rate Gyro.

It all sounded so simple. Just plug the Gyro into the rudder channel, then plug the rudder into the Gyro. This leaves one extra lead they said to plug into an Aux. Channel. Nothing worked. Totally spastic in fact! So I called E-Flight. They said to do the same thing. They said I would just set the rate by setting the travel.

Nope! A little more research into the DX7 radio and I see that when in Helicopter mode, the Aux.#2 can be programmed to work with a Gyro. But of course this is not a helicopter. So here I sit with my $80.00 servo and a state of the art radio, with no way to use my Gyro that I can determine.

Any sharing of experience or help would be greatly appreciated.
Larry in Casa Grande, AZ.

viking
04-12-2007, 03:03 AM
AH HA! My evil plan of having converts to gyros is taking hold.......

Well I think your gyro is set way to high. Try turning it down to almost nothing. I think it is searching for a heading back and forth and causing it to play havoc with your little cubby. Where is the gyro located? Try putting it in the middle of the aircraft. My gyro is turned waaaaaay down so it acts more like a dampner than a course correcter thing-a-ma-jig. Make sure you are on rate rather than heading hold. Heading hold would make you have to rudder steer the gyro like a helicopter. Anyone else got any info?

Flyon_rc
04-16-2007, 06:09 AM
Well this thing flies very well. I powered it with a Power 32 motor and the new battery technollogy known as A123 batteries (5 Cells in this case). Many have mentioned that the center of gravity needs to be way forward of the kit recommended center. Before I ever built mine, one of the guys at our field added lead and an entire Lipo battery (not plugged in, just ballast) to get his to fly right. So my thinking when I built mine was; why not make that weight a bigger motor and the batteries to power it.
When I got done, no further weight was needed up front.

The Plane is so pretty to look at! Only one problem. The prop wash is so severe that the black lightening bolt on both sides is peeling away after just 5 flights. I ironed it back down, and this time I glued the very forward tips of them with CA glue.

Has anyone else had this problem? Please let us know what you have tried.

Solid Hit
04-16-2007, 03:25 PM
Hi Flyon and welcome to WF

I've been flying my Cub with the stock motor and prop. The battery I'm using is a 3s2p4400. I've balanced her right on the manual with no extra weight added. With that setup she'll loop from level flight, have decent rolls, and fly inverted with no problems. Landing is typical Cub; meaning long glides on final. Ground handling during takeoff is no more difficult then many of my tail draggers - just a little more rudder sensitive. The only reason I may any problem at all is that the roll-out is longer then most of my planes so you have to stay on the rudder longer.

I've used stick glue to hold down the tip of my lightning bolt.

MRM1
04-17-2007, 02:42 PM
No lightning bolt trouble here. But i did iron them down when i was assembling the model. one of the corners was coming up ever so slightly, but since it has never come loose.

Congrates on your flying report

Hal-i-chopter
04-30-2007, 03:46 PM
Many have mentioned that the center of gravity needs to be way forward of the kit recommended center. I did not know this. I have had big problems trying to get the Cub with pontoons off of the water this year. Last year was no problem. I have my CG where the manual says to have it. I finally got it into the air yesterday only by hauling back on the stick and putting the elevator to the high rate throw setting and going like a bat out of hell on the water.

Later I had a lot of trimming on the elevator to do just to fly level. Without adjusting the trim I had to pull back significantly just to avoid a dive. Then after I had it trimmed out pretty good, I had a bad crash from about 100 feet when it stalled. I have had a number of crashes, always from an abrupt stall. I was testing out slower flying speeds because I didn't want to burn my batteries and get a shorter flight than necessary. Bad idea. Should have just kept my speed up. People say you can recover from a stall but if so I need a lot more altitude. The Cub went from flying straight and level to abruptly diving straight down for the water. Even though it was picking up some good speed the elevator control had no effect on it until it crashed into the water at high speed and ripped the pontoons off the bottom and broke a strut. I can repair it but I really need some advice on what to try. I am nervous about flying this without knowing what is going on.

MRM1
05-03-2007, 05:42 PM
I would bet its tail heavy. since i "balanced" mine forward of the stock CG it is a dream to fly. very stable. more so than i ever thought it would be.

I would try flying it nose heavy like a lawn dart and see what that does. the only problem nose heave will cause is .... well not many. But tail heavy will cause all kinds of spooky stuff.

Hal-i-chopter
05-03-2007, 05:54 PM
I would bet its tail heavy. since i "balanced" mine forward of the stock CG it is a dream to fly. very stable. more so than i ever thought it would be.

I would try flying it nose heavy like a lawn dart and see what that does. the only problem nose heave will cause is .... well not many. But tail heavy will cause all kinds of spooky stuff.Where is your CG now? This would really help me.

MRM1
05-04-2007, 02:37 AM
not really sure as a measurement. but I marked the wing in the center of the spec CG and now at that point it tips noseward pretty far. It may not even balance in the middle of the stock CG. It tips to the nose. Next time I put it together (saturday if weather is good) I will check it.

Hal-i-chopter
05-04-2007, 03:03 PM
Thanks. How did you get the CG forward? Adding weights? I have my two TP2100 3 cell batteries shoved up all the way to the motor bulkhead.

MRM1
05-05-2007, 08:16 PM
Thanks. How did you get the CG forward? Adding weights? I have my two TP2100 3 cell batteries shoved up all the way to the motor bulkhead.

Check CG today and balanced it is 1/4" forward of the center CG mark.

To achieve this noise heavier flying spec I also first shoved batteries as far forward as possible. Not good enough.

The I added the "Swamper" 1/5 scale cub wheels (read back in this thread to understand why they are "Swampers"). Still not enough

Finally I hot glued 2 hardware store nuts in the cowl and 1 more on the frount of the firewall. I added about 1 oz of noise weight with these nuts. This did the trick. I am happy. It could be a little heavier and things would be even better, but it now penetrates well and just floats in very nice.

Mike

Hal-i-chopter
05-07-2007, 02:34 PM
Thanks Mike,

The manual has a range of CG (I don't have the manual with me but I think the max minus min is about 1/4") so I put marks on the wings at both spots. By pushing batteries and electronics as close as possible to the firewall I was able to move the CG to the forward mark. But this is only a move of 1/8th inch forward from the midpoint.

As far as wheels, I am using the pontoons so I don't have any flexibility unless I remount the pontoons. So maybe the washers will work for me.

MRM1
05-08-2007, 01:33 PM
Also remember those marks are guides. The real test of Balance is how the model flys. And yours is flying like it is tail heavy from your discription. Here is another "test", is it real sensitive on the elevator as it looses air speed? That is, when landing does it tend to balloon when you barely touch the elevator? This is a true indicator of tail heavy.

If the model will not flare about a foot off the ground using nearly full up elevator, but instead tends to balloon, IMO it is tail heavy.

Solid Hit
05-08-2007, 02:15 PM
viking, I just installed a gyro on mine. The thing to remember is to be sure it is mounted correctly as to counteract the direction the nose is going. If the plane is going right, you want the gyro to tell the tail to give left rudder.

That took some playing around to get it right before mounting it.

Hal-i-chopter
05-08-2007, 02:59 PM
Also remember those marks are guides. The real test of Balance is how the model flys. And yours is flying like it is tail heavy from your discription. Here is another "test", is it real sensitive on the elevator as it looses air speed? That is, when landing does it tend to balloon when you barely touch the elevator? This is a true indicator of tail heavy.

If the model will not flare about a foot off the ground using nearly full up elevator, but instead tends to balloon, IMO it is tail heavy.MRM1, I just flew the Cub on our lake yesterday evening. It was fantastic!:Q

Just moving the CG up as far as I could (1/8th inch) made a big difference. Before the behavior was exactly as you describe, as I came in to land just a small pull back on the elevator stick caused the plane to balloon high off the water. It certainly was tail heavy.

I could probably use another 1/8th inch movement but it is so much better now I am happy. I did a number of touch and go's with the best smoothest landings I've been able to do. There is some minor ballooning when I pull back too hard but even then the Cub settles done for a gentle landing rather than the hard splashing I did before. I have a YouTube video of my first flight of the Cub last year and I now understand that part of the reason for my poor landing was the ballooning effect. Check it out and see what you think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_cq75HtFYc

MRM1
05-08-2007, 06:32 PM
would love to see a "NOW" video. Yea you can see it behaving tail heavy. I think if you could add a little more you would really enjoy the fiight. I put two nuts in the bottom of the cowl. The weighed about 1/3 oz total. I used hot glue to install them.

Keep in mind with weight. the further forward you can place it the more effect it will have. thus if you can go way forward, you need less weight.

I think what happen to me was NOT using the prescribed Power 25 motor the weighs more than the Welgard motor i installed.

Hal-i-chopter
05-08-2007, 07:38 PM
I will try adding the nuts. If a little is good, more is better, right? :ws:

I'll try and get a video. I have to draft my wife or daughter to do it and neither are big RC fans. :roll:

lab-dad
06-14-2007, 07:38 PM
Well I just joined after reading this whole thread. I find the J3 cub to be very beautiful and the Eflite 25 seems a good size. However I have never flown anything....... Hopefully if I take it slow it wont be too expensive a learning curve......
Anyway, is ther any way to repaint / recover the Eflite cub, or am I stuck with the yellow? I did like the military decals one of you used. I'd just like mine to be a little different.
Thanks,
Marty

Aussie E-Flite
06-15-2007, 08:25 AM
Glad to see you in the forum Marty.

The E-flite J3 cub and 25 is a great combination and it does fly very well, however, I would strongly recommend that you put it away for awhile and begin your RC adventures with a more suitable aircraft to begin with.

If you have never flown anything before (RC), then you will only crash the Cub and wreck a very nice little plane. I don't mean to sound to blunt, but flying RC takes a little practice and like our full size counterparts, you should learn on a suitable 'training' type aircraft.

Something in that size bracket to suit the E-flite 25 is the Phoenix Rainbow (marketed as the Graupner Kadet in the US I think) and it is magic plane to learn on and keep in your active hanger once you have mastered it. I have one of these and fly it just about every time I go out to the field. After you are confident with yourself and the aircraft, only then should you attempt the Cub.

Spend some time researching these forums to check out the Rainbow other planes - there are heaps of different planes out there for you to learn on. The 25 size aircraft have the advantage of being a reasonable size (an advantage when learning) and still use reasonably priced equipment (batteries and ESC).

You should look in your local area for a club to join and assist with your flying, as having someone to teach you the basics and some flight theory will accelerate your training by a huge margin!! You are going to have heaps of questions once you start out with these fabulous hobby.

Good luck Marty, keep us posted and I hope you enjoy the hobby.

lab-dad
06-15-2007, 01:59 PM
Thanks Keith,
I was fairly sure I would hear "start with a trainer".
Thanks for the recomendation, I will look into it and others.
I just didnt want to learn "bad habbits" from a non-tail dragger.
I wonder if there is such a thing as a tail dragger trainer?
I have a great local club, and plan on visiting and see about joining.
The J3 is just too beautiful to resist, so at least now I have a goal.
Regards,
Marty

Hal-i-chopter
06-15-2007, 02:55 PM
Marty,

I agree with the comments about flying a different plane to start with. I had flown many planes and helicopters and crashed the Cub on first try because I was not used to abrupt stalling. The planes I had flown were foamies which have very forgiving stall characteristics plus enough power to pull out of any situation (i.e. power plant can put out more thrust than the entire airplane weight.)

I was going to suggest trying a foamie like the slow stick which is extremely forgiving but maybe that will not help you any more than it did me. One approach is to fly a trainer type plane that can use the same motor, radio, ESC, servos that the Cub uses (you know, all the expensive stuff that doesn't usually break upon crashing). This way you have a plane that is more forgiving but you don't have to shell out twice for all the expensive stuff.

I was also going to suggest lots of time on the simulator, which is a good idea anyway. However I haven't found a simulator (tried the G3 and Phoenix) that in any way simulates the Cub stall characteristics.

Ultimately you will want to fly the Cub very high and slow until it stalls and then learn how to recover from the stall. Until then when you eventually are flying the Cub, keep the speed up and don't turn too sharply at low speed.

Hal

lab-dad
06-15-2007, 04:42 PM
Thanks guys, hope this is the "right" place to be asking all this (if not I will go over to the "beginers sect" but since my goal is the J3, maybe its okay.
I have been looking at "trainers". What do we think of the
Hobbico SuperStar EP ARF w/Ailerons? She's a tail dragger so I'm thinking that will help. I had thought about the sims, but then read Hal's comment about it not helping.
I could use the charger I have for now, buy a decent radio / elec and swap over (eventually).
Thanks guys.
Marty

MRM1
06-17-2007, 02:29 AM
I agree with others. Learn to fly before flying the Cub. And Green?!? .... Cubs ARE SUPOSE TO BE YELLOW man come on. :)

As to the other, You are in the right place as far as I am concerned. And I think the Hobbico SuperStar EP is a great trainer. But I would suggest an entirely different power plant. With stock it will only fly about 4 minutes and the battery will only last a few cycles. IMO the stock ESC will not support a larger pack or lipos and it is not brushless compatable. I learned on this plane back 2.5 years ago and STILL HAVE IT and fly it regularly. It is a great little, tough plane. Learn on it and a PC Sim ... I taught myself to fly on the sim. I flew on the PC every day for 2 weeks before the plane arrived. Went out to the club the first day and was flying by myself solo the first day.

A better set up is a little brushless mod that I did back a while ago.

If you have nothing but time, you can read the very LONG thread (3 part and 208 pages) that I started 2 1/2 years ago detailing my first build and flight exeriences with this plane. Here you will meet some great guys and see about every mod and motor type that could ever be installed on this plane. We have this plane set up with a steerable tail wheel (my first mod), tri-geared, on skis off snow, set up with on board video, on board still camera, and loads of pics and videos.

For me, I flew it stock the first week and then upgraded it to a larger brushed buggy motor and larger packs the second week. The thread is now in its third part. But you could read the beginning and then read the part 3 toward the end to find the brushless upgrade.

I love this plane.

Part I (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290580) - my very first flight ever

My Brushless upgrade (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395463&page=117) - this is in part III and starts in post 1752.

MRM1
06-17-2007, 02:35 AM
Other electric trainers I would suggest:

The Liberty (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6467730&postcount=1734)from Hobby Lobby - I flown it, flies great

And the Hobbico ElectriStar (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNVC0**&P=7)- looks good on paper

Both are tri-gear, but I do not think that will mess you up when you switch to a tail dragger too much.

SilberIgel
06-17-2007, 03:17 AM
Lab-Dad,

Before you lay out bread on a trainer. Check the one at 3DHobbies. http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/HotStuff.aspx It should be out on the market very soon.

I've seen the prototype. It flys very well ... in fact it has enough power to go straight up as far as you dare .... and when you are ready you should be able to use the power system in one of the other 3D offerings. Its well very stout.

Based on the very fine work that 3D puts into their past offerings (Katana, Yak, Aspera), their new 53" trainer will be top notch in quality, construction & performance.

MRM1
06-17-2007, 04:30 AM
S.

I can only assume you mean the 53" trainer :) That is one sweet looking bird. Are they selling it with all the goodies? servos/ESC/motor ... will it be an RTF.

Bummer I did not see a price tag.

SilberIgel
06-18-2007, 01:08 AM
S.

I can only assume you mean the 53" trainer :) That is one sweet looking bird. Are they selling it with all the goodies? servos/ESC/motor ... will it be an RTF.

Bummer I did not see a price tag.

I believe it will priced competitively. For the ARF, probably about the same as the Katana/Yak/Aspera.... then you add in the electronics/motor/etc. Check the all up price of an Aspera, its probably in the ball park.

Regardless, 3D does mighty fine engineering and testing of their kits to make sure every detail is right. My Aspera (still awaiting construction space on the workbench) is flawless. I should be starting on it in few more weeks. ;-)

compflight
06-18-2007, 09:43 PM
If you are talking futaba then you need NEGATIVE expo (Softens the centres) Most, if not all others you need positive expo.

MRM1
06-19-2007, 01:56 AM
HiTec is negative

ramboman
06-19-2007, 08:38 AM
What about using a gyro on the rudder to avoid groud loop ?

Hal-i-chopter
06-20-2007, 05:05 PM
I have posted before about my Eflight J3 with pontoons. The one remaining problem I was having was the splashing from the pontoons hitting the prop.

I tried going to a smaller, higher pitch prop and it was a disaster. I crashed 2 out of 3 take offs. It just doesn't have the power to get off the water. And it didn't even reduce the blade splashing (prop is now in trash).

I think the only solution is to put a splash guard on the pontoon inner edges towards the front. I have resisted because the pontoons look so nice right now. Has anyone tried this and if so, can you describe what you did, how it worked and pictures if possible?

darylm44
07-11-2007, 06:28 AM
lab-dad (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=15733)

I learned by myself on a wing dragon 4 (with ailerons). It is a tuff little plane and is fun to fly after you learn, especially if you upgrade to an outrunner.

darylm44
07-14-2007, 02:55 AM
I just received my e-flite 25 J3 Cub yesterday. Everything is stock except for the batteries. I am using 2 cellpro 2100s.

How have you mounted your 2 packs wired in parallel?? Did you velcro them together, use rubber bands, or mount them individually? What gage wire did you use to build your wiring harness?

I am fairly new to RC and the battery compartment is not over sized in this plane. If you could share a picture that might help::o

Thanks

Piperfan
07-14-2007, 09:02 PM
I am using 2 TP 2100s in parallel. The batteries each have a hook velco on them and loop on the plane. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the plane needs two of these batteries to balance properly. The plane is designed to fly on a single 4200 eflite makes available for it. Parallel connectors are easy to make. It should be no longer then 2 inchs in lenth. Use 14 gauge or 13 gauge wire.

SilberIgel
07-14-2007, 09:28 PM
I just received my e-flite 25 J3 Cub yesterday. Everything is stock except for the batteries. I am using 2 cellpro 2100s.

How have you mounted your 2 packs wired in parallel?? Did you velcro them together, use rubber bands, or mount them individually? What gage wire did you use to build your wiring harness?

I am fairly new to RC and the battery compartment is not over sized in this plane. If you could share a picture that might help::o

Thanks

Daryl,

I tried making a connector at least three times. None of them came out the way I wanted and the wires were either too short, too long or too stiff.
I'd suggest just buying this: http://www.rctoys.com/rc-toys-and-parts/DE-HARNESS-2P/RC-PARTS-CONNECTORS-WIRING.html

It's 'just right.'

It took a long time to sort out how to attach and locate the batteries. I ended up using several hook and loop patches and a couple velcro straps. My biggest problem was to keep the battery set from accidentally shifting forward and changing the CG. The other issue is that you can't get the batteries in when 'paired' up.... they have to insert separately and then be lashed together and tied down. My set up is functional but still needs some work. I like your rubber band idea.

darylm44
07-15-2007, 12:03 AM
Thanks for the help.

I have managed to build some parallel harnesses and get the batteries in, but it's not pretty::o

I have seen guys at the field who's wiring looks like a circuit board. How do they do that??

I guess I will just move on until I'm sure about the CG before I try to clean it up a little:roll:

Hal-i-chopter
07-16-2007, 10:53 PM
I also have a parallel harness with two TP2100s. I have velcro on the bottom of the batteries and on the balsa mount. I have the batteries side by side with the electrical connectors right up front and the balancing wires protruding into the engine compartment (don't worry they don't get tangled in the motor). Care must be taken so you don't kink the balancing wires or they will break from fatigue. I have broken wires on two so far. I now have squirted some silicone rubber where the wires emerge as a strain relief (come on TP, you should be doing this).

I have the batteries as far forward as possible for CG. It is true you can only place one battery in at one time and even then it is a tight fit. I have some foam to make sure the batteries don't come loose from the velcro on a hard landing. You don't want the batteries falling out the battery door (especially if you are flying on pontoons!) The only problem is that there is less air flow that way. An improvement would be something to secure the batteries better without blocking flow. However I have had to close off the air holes in the battery door anyway because too much water splashes into the electronics when flying on floats. So far I have had no heat problems even on very hot days. The Cub just doesn't require that much juice.

darylm44
07-17-2007, 06:08 AM
Thanks Hal-i-copter,

What I have now is two 2100 batteries rubber banded flat sides together. They will just fit into the compartment on edge. I then have two velcro straps that snug the batteries down against the rubber bands and the bottom of the compartment. I don't have velcro on the bottom of the compartment since there wouldn't be enough room to get it loose. I have had a hard time getting the velcro to separate in another plane due to lack of room to separte the battery from the bottom of the compartment.

The problem with this is I will have to charge the batteries in the plane which I think will be OK with my new Cellpro 4 charger. To remove the batteries I will have to take off the wing to loosen one of the velcro straps.

I think the friction from the rubber bands will keep the batteries from moving.

If anyone thinks I'm all wet please let me know:)

Daryl

Hal-i-chopter
07-17-2007, 02:48 PM
Sounds like a viable alternate method. Mine isn't perfect.

I agree that trying to pry batteries off of velcro in a tight space can be difficult, although I have just enough room with my method.

darylm44
07-29-2007, 05:21 PM
Maidened my Cub yesterday. All went well. No one else at the field so I took it up and trimmed it myself. With anything over 1/3 throttle I have to give it down elevator to keep it from climbing. Tail heavy maybe?

This is the largest and easiest plane to fly that I have. It took a while to get the glide path down it seems to float forever. I really like the larger size and yellow color which make it much easier to follow in the air.

darylm44
07-30-2007, 04:29 AM
You are not going to believe this http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley35.gif

I maidened my new e-flite 25 J3 Cub yesterday and the 40 amp e-fite ESC quit working today http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif Yesterday the e-fite ESC would not work in my mini ultra stick. It worked last weekend and nothing was changed. That's 2 e-fite ESCs in 2 days.

I am using proper batteries and recommended motors with both of these planes. This one quit providing power to the motor and I had to dead stick my new cub. Nothing was hurt so I guess I should be happy.

The servos will still work but the ESC does not make its start up beeps. I replaced it (only for test) with a 32 amp ESC and the motor runs fine.

Adrian
09-27-2007, 06:31 PM
My cubs been in the air once RX failed::o (but got away with light damage) new rx fitted ready for the weekend, just a quick Q. tho, I'm using 2x2170 batts in parralel but unsure about the CoG which still seems to be a bit far back @ 70MM I'm using the E-flite 25 motor up front, but I'm wondering if I need a little more weight up front, or will she fly OK as is?
Im hoping to fly this weekend if weather is ok, as the club "guru" did the maiden, she seems to fly really well & up until the rx failed for a couple of seconds- before coming back to life at which point the "guru" made the save of the centuary:tc:

Hal-i-chopter
09-27-2007, 09:42 PM
Are your batteries right up against the firewall? Mine have to be to get the CG right. I had to go just 1/8th inch forward of midpoint of manual recommendation.

Stormovic
09-28-2007, 02:21 AM
Only thing eflite did on this wrong in my opinion was to make the rear fin and rudder way too large for the fuse. This looks way out of scale to suit me.

MRM1
09-29-2007, 12:06 AM
I tend to disagree. Old, long time RC and full scale pilot guys at my club who have flown full scale cubs and been aquainted with them up-close-and-personal say it is one of the most scale cubs they have ever seen.

Very few model cubs have the scale fuse rib down the side.

Stormovic
09-29-2007, 12:08 AM
I guarantee you the fin and rudder are way off.

darylm44
09-29-2007, 02:23 AM
I continue to get many compliments each time I fly mine. Especially if I do several slow fly by's.

I have increased the throws on my ailerons and elevator. I know this is not a 3d machine but I want to speed up my loops and rolls. Don't know when I will get to fly her again. I am also getting ready to make some skis for her. Winter is coming and it's starting to look like I am going to need them sooner than later.

This is really a great flying bird and I would recommend it as a second or third plane to any beginner.

Taylorman
10-04-2007, 12:50 AM
I've had mine for over a year now with quite a few flights. Although it has some "Hangar Rash", I still get quite a few comments at the field. It's a great flying plane!

Adrian
10-04-2007, 12:39 PM
Since my last post the Rx problem has been solved, it wasnt the RX at all! but the ESC not being able to handle the 4 rather large Hi-tec HS-225BB's I'd installed, now its kitted out with a Medusa Research 3.5amp BEC, so that little problem should be history:ws: Also last test flight has shown the Cub not to be the easiest to get off the deck.
After wading through all 8 pages of this link More expo has been dialled in on Futaba FF9 TX, also next flight wont be a jump on the throttle affair for take off (1st attempt ended with a wingover)& more of a measured (scale?) increase of speed with a touch of down elevator, using a bit of rudder until (hopefuly) a safe take off speed is reached, as to the flying of it I'm going to have to be carefull in the turns using less flaps & more rudder than I'm used to whilst adding a touch of power also using the rudder in the direction of turn & not against that I'm used to on glider.
So the question is - Have I missed anything?
PS All E-flite as recommended-.25 outrunner,40A ESC & 2x2170 li-pos (mounted against firewall) CoG seems to be spot on & 10x7 APC-E prop & 11X7 to try also, (12x6 seems to be oversize for this craft)

Hal-i-chopter
10-04-2007, 04:08 PM
So the question is - Have I missed anything?
Have you tried to implement differential aileron settings? It really helps with the adverse yaw and stall spins. Essentially you do this with 'flaperon' settings in the Tx and use 2 channels (not one) for the ailerons so that when doing an aileron turn the flap going UP travels about twice the distance of the flap going DOWN. This causes more drag on the UP flap thereby helping the plane yaw into the turn rather than away from the turn.

Adrian
10-05-2007, 03:28 AM
I will have to think aout this one, I'm not sure I want to build this level of security into the wing, I mainly fly heli's & I've got "sensitive thumbs" these days so I think I can handle many of the foibles of fixed wing & had no problems so far, so I dont think it's a lack of basic skills, more of a learning curve. I've gotten back into fixed wing more as an exercise in relaxation rather than a learning thing. I want revel in the "laid back" virtues of slow flying rather than the constant inputs of my helis.

Hal-i-chopter
10-05-2007, 03:39 PM
I do exactly the same thing. No question, heli flying is for adrenalin, fixed wing for relaxation.

As far as the differential aileron, I find that knowing I'm not going to stall out of the sky or wing over on take off allows even more relaxation. ;-)

Adrian
10-05-2007, 07:45 PM
Oh dear! my Cub isnt a cub-its a puppy & now a very sick one to boot.
Took it to local field for "the guru" (the best fixed wing pilot around here) to test fly, the take off was fine, but the turns were a thing of pain as it went into a death spiral, wing is damaged but repairable (although I'm not capable of this-I know a man who can-I hope, if not its a new wing:{). So the damage is wing-bad, prop-no big deal, damaged FG nose-mainly cosmetic, under cart-seriously bent & finally the body lost a few bits'n'bobs which can be replaced & epoxied back into place.
But the thing that bugs me is how can Horizon sell a plane with no wash out on its wing, for me as a relative beginner who wants a "trainer" (I've been flying helis for a couple of years now, so its not like I cant fly) for relaxation-not as "rip the air apart" plane. Here in the UK we have a retail law "fit for purpose" & I'm afraid The E-cub may well be fowl of this, I will be having a word with the legal dept come Monday. I've looked through the manual & no mention of set up warns of "possible" flaws in its construction-GOT THE BAST@RDS!

stevecooper
10-05-2007, 08:07 PM
Adrian::sounds like tip stall'in due to a tail heavy plane is the first thing to check, Go nose heavy as you dare, pay no mind to the factory CG sett'in's , It's easyer to drag the nose up than to recover from a stall, I've flown for 40years but on my build-before-last, I would swear she was'nt tail heavy, NO-WAY!!! but WRONG! start at 1/3 back from the leading edge and work forward, your bub, stevecooper: PS I love the U.K. and your CARS!! ( heres mine)

Hal-i-chopter
10-05-2007, 09:13 PM
Adrian, believe me the differential ailerons will help here. So will moving the CG forward like Steve says. If you move the CG to the furthest spot forward recommended in the manual you should be OK.

I crashed the first time I flew the plane. Totally fell out of the sky when I took what I thought was a reasonable turn with rudder input. I had only flown foamies and helicopters and they don't stall.

I've found out since you have to keep the speed up, especially with big control surface inputs. Since my first crash I had 3 more bad stall crashes before I got religion. I ended up buying a new kit (not too bad as the cost is in the servos, radio, esc & motor). But with the CG more forward and differential aileron, I have had no problems for a year.

Adrian
10-05-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm gonna have to take a break from the cub for a couple of days or I may just end up ripping the good stuff out of it & just setting fire to the remains! Picking up a new model tom morning + I've got to pick up Cessna that one of the lads doesnt want anymore & kit that out-so at least I should have something to fly in the next couple of days (other than a heli)
Will probably have calmed down by the morning, but just too upset at E-flite & Cub at moment:sad:

Hal-i-chopter
10-05-2007, 09:28 PM
Don't give up on the Cub. I probably have the most consistent fun with my Cub on floats. It looks so real in the sky over our lake. We have a lot of full scale Cubs with floats so it's not unusual for me to be flying when a full scale is.

With the Cub on floats you have a huge runway for take off and landing and even stall crashes do minimal damage (water is softer than the ground!)

If you do go to floats, see my post on how to prevent prop splashes.

Adrian
10-06-2007, 10:54 AM
After a couple of rather large "gentlemans G&T's" last nite, I've woken up in a much happier frame of mind, provided the wing is salvagable-the former is snapped in half with both ends securly epoxied in, one of the lads is looking at a couple of solutions to that one (I should find out tonite) I've got to strip the wing to repair the crunched wing tip, so I may look into possibly reshaping the wings profile. Will discuss this with "guru" before I start "balsa bashing" (its 30+ yrs since I did any-so a little wary)

MRM1
10-06-2007, 04:13 PM
But the thing that bugs me is how can Horizon sell a plane with no wash out on its wing, for me as a relative beginner who wants a "trainer" (I've been flying helis for a couple of years now, so its not like I cant fly) for relaxation-not as "rip the air apart" plane. Here in the UK we have a retail law "fit for purpose" & I'm afraid The E-cub may well be fowl of this, I will be having a word with the legal dept come Monday. I've looked through the manual & no mention of set up warns of "possible" flaws in its construction-GOT THE BAST@RDS!

Did the Guru crash the plane? have him fix or pay for the wing the wing ... that's pretty SOP.

2 things for sure. This "death spiral" has been mentioned here before. If it spun out of control the plane is tail heavy. I dont think that qualifies as a fault of E-Flight. You have to fly it forward of the spec center CG.

Nor do I think E-flight (or anyone else for that matter) has ever called a Cub a Trainer. In fact the first line on the E-flights Cub web page notes: Aimed at the scale electric enthusiast. An enthusiast is hardly an unexperience fix wing flyer.

As to wash-in / wash-out, every guru I have ever delt with tells me that all ARFs have to be check for wing twist in one direction or another because most will have it. This is due to the transportation from China to Warehouse. The cargo areas of shipping planes tends to be cold and these model wings will twist in those conditions. Mine was twisted. But when you check it, then you can twist, bend and shape all the wash in or wash out your heart desires.

So I am not sure what you "GOT THE BAST@RDS!" on. This cub has Fit my purpose to a tee. Flys better than most cubs I have ever seen.

darylm44
10-06-2007, 07:42 PM
Mine flys great.

Just fly it like a real cub gentle and smooth. It is a scale Cub and flys like one. Talk to any full size Cub pilots and they will tell you this is not a sport or 3d plane. It has its limits and if you exceed them it will crash just like the real ones. I loop and roll mine at altitude but am always careful to make my turns relatively flat and gentle. If you bank it to hard and give up elevator with slow airspeed it will probably fall out of the sky.

Adrian
10-07-2007, 04:57 PM
The "guru" maidens all aircrafts at our field, he's the best "allround " pilot & therefore our test pilot, he helps set up the plane & TX before flight & trims them out before handing over to the owners.
As to CoG all is as E-flite recommend 65MM from LE, other than adding lead to nose I cant move anything further forward.
My wing has new spar ready to be fitted, just wether I want a one piece wing or two now (still will have to sort damage out on the wing tip though).
As to not being a learner craft-I've been flying helis for acouple of years now-so my thumbs aint dumb! head on flying is probably my best "direction" so no problems there, the reason I bought the cub was for relaxation purposes-not to learn to fly, the cub was to be my winged angel V's the heli's antichrist (if you get my idea)
As to E-flite & their products, I dont think I will buy anything of theirs in the future, unless someone I know-recommends. It's a case of "once bitten-twice shy" As a (relative) newcomer to fixed wing, I find it difficult to comprehend how a a maker of so many "models" got even the basics (of wing shape) so wrong. If you bought a car with the ability to fall off the road very time you turned left or right-said manufacturer would be hauled through the courts very quickly, all it needs is a change on the CNC laser cutter to prevent ANY of these problems with a few degrees of washout built into the wing, why should it be left to people who already have much experiance in flying fixed wing to sort out a badly designed wing, what about us "beginners"?
I've E-mailed E-flite & if they dont like it-sue me!:cool:

MRM1
10-07-2007, 09:49 PM
Adrian, part of it is just the joy of modeling. I have not yet had an ARF that was perfectly set up "out of the box" and I have had about 13 or more now.

IMO, the cub is NOT a relaxation plane. It does fly very well if set up correctly, BUT it needs certain things. It needs power in steep banks. It cannot be allowed to stall and if you get it too slow in a bank ... it will stall. If you wanted a relax plane, I just dont think the Cub (any cub) is it. As I said, I have had many planes, and currently have 13 set up and ready to go and for me, the Cub has a major pucker factor. It can be a hand full at times. Especially in a breeze.

As to CG. With Fixed wing aircraft, you cannot judge CG by the spec alone. That is a suggestion and it is often given in a range that is about 2 cm wide. It is a good starting point, but the real test of balance for any plane is in the Air .... and as a few of us have stated over and over here, this plane is tail heavy. So yes, you will need weight in the noise. I used hot glue and Nuts and Washers. Get the weight forward and it may well be the plane you are looing for.

darylm44
10-11-2007, 05:21 AM
They are tough though:eek:

While setting up an approach for a landing I got too close to a plane grabbing 70 foot tall spruce tree. The top of that tree jumped right out and smacked my cub.:mad: It fell to the ground through several other shorter spruce and I found it on the ground. It was missing one spar and the other was pulled loose. Other than that it is fine. I was really worried that I would have to climb trees to get it back so I am a happy camper.:D

Adrian
10-16-2007, 08:41 PM
Repairs are underway, hope to get it in the air this weekend with a couple of mm's of up on the airlerons to induce a bit washout to the wing, if this doesnt work I'm afraid its e-bay for this craft. someone else can sort the little(ish) critter out.
Bought a "yank & bank" P51 mustang to cheer me up, hope to have that in the air also by the weekend, I just need to get some stick time & improve my fixed wing skills, flying helis is fun-but it isnt exactly relaxing is it:eek:

MRM1
10-17-2007, 04:50 PM
No I would say flying helis is actaully quite nerve wracking.

guapoman2000
10-17-2007, 10:52 PM
Repairs are underway, hope to get it in the air this weekend with a couple of mm's of up on the airlerons to induce a bit washout to the wing, if this doesnt work I'm afraid its e-bay for this craft. someone else can sort the little(ish) critter out.
Bought a "yank & bank" P51 mustang to cheer me up, hope to have that in the air also by the weekend, I just need to get some stick time & improve my fixed wing skills, flying helis is fun-but it isnt exactly relaxing is it:eek:

I usually do not respond here at WATT Flyer and it has been a very long time that I do, except to say that when I do it is to help someone and I hope what I write is not taken the wrong way.

I have carefully read through this thread and I also witnessed the Video of a certain E-Flite J3 Cub. This Video contained two flights, one uneventful that took off and landed okay. The second flight took off well but, a few seconds later it entered into a what the Video credits say, "unrecoverable" spin.

Based on the above, I have the following comments:

1. A same model, J3 Cub by E-Flite is owned by a close friend and co-worker, Gerry and has exhibited top quality construction such that out of the box it did not have any issues with wing warping nor Wash-In etc..

2. Should anyone attempt to fly any RC Model, either foam or Balsa / Lite Ply with any Wash-In and especially unbalanced amounts between the two wing halves the model will exhibit very poor flight qualities especially when trying to turn in the direction that pertains to the offending wing that has more Wash-Out such that the model will not climb worth a dime. Also, it will have very touchy controls upon landing especially slowing the model down to the point that the Wash-In takes effect and you see a wing down effect, none of this did I see during the first flight as the video showed.

3. I believe many RC Modelers that have built many RC airplane Models have a habbit to look for any uneven Wash-Out / Wash-In at the trailing end of each wing assembly halves and especially before any flight operations. This same practice should not be deviated for any ARF airplane RC Models. Certainly, during shipment there is cause of concern of this effect in a hot shipping container on an open cargo ship as temperatures can exceed those that can and will provide wing warping and thereby some unwanted Wash-In and at times unwanted Wash-Out depending on the model.

4. It is my personal experience that this model does not have any bad habbits as just this past Tuesday, Gerry and I realized an Unplanned Mid-Air collision with his wonderful E-Flite J3 Cub and my Hobby Zone Super Cub as he came from behind my Super Cub and made contact with his Left wing strut and Left side Horizontal Stabilizer. His model flipped upwards due to the impact and resulting flight dynamics and we were just 40 feet up and he was able to save his model by keeping the nose down for airspeed and then flair at the last second. Gerry's landing of his J3 Cub was a hard landing and the main landing gear sustained some misalignment plus the Left wheel exhibited bow in condition, Left Horizontal Stab sustained a hairline crack at the leading edge, the strut detacted but, was not damaged. It took Gerry a total of 10 minutes to readjust everything and his E-Flite J3 Cub was back in the air!!:eek:

Summary:
I can understand the frustration when things do not unfold as planned and especially in this hobby but, to blame E-Flite or anyone else is really not what I consider responsible RC Modeling. It is my opinion that everyone needs to double check airframe, Electronic Power System setup (AMP measurement), following all recommendations on hooking up any UBEC devices, Programming ESC's, etc..etc..

At first when I did see that Video, I had thought that the SWITCH BEC had failed as the model did not seem to have any indication of recovery nor did I hear the motor spool up for a recovery as you need power to get out of a spin that tight. However, Gerry has commanded his E-Flite J3 Cub to Spin many times without any incident and at times with little or no power. For this reason, I decided to reply here as I was shocked and surprised to see this model not come out of that spin. The first flight was a success so, why is E-Flite responsible for the resulting 2nd Flight that resulted in a crash?

This is a "SCALE" RC model and you have to treat it with that mind set....if I go and slow down a "SCALE" Model plus perhaps input too much Up elevator it will enter into a spin.;)

I certainly hope that you have better luck and experience with this and any future FIXED wing airplane RC Model but, I am afraid that you needed to consider a high wing trainer before attempting to fly a Scale job as Trainers do not spin!:(

Here's some pictures of Gerry's E-Flite J3 Cub after mid-air collision....it is one of the toughest RC "Electric" airplane Models I have come across up to now!!!:eek:

Taylorman
10-20-2007, 02:11 AM
I agree with Guapoman. I have 30+ flights on my Eflite J3 Cub and can tell you it is certainly not a trainer. It flies very "Scale" and has all the faults of the full size Cub. That being said, I enjoy the heck out of mine and to me it's a relaxing flyer.

With all my ARF's reguardless of manufacturer, I've had to tweak every one to fly well. This has been as simple moving the C/G forwards or backwards from the recommended, to changing out the stock motor with a more powerful one. as an example, my GP Lancair needed a larger motor and tweaking of the angle of incidence for the wing to get it to fly well. To me that's the fun and challenge of the hobby. Most ARF's are advertised as 95% built. It's sometimes surprising how much work the other 5% can be sometimes.

Adrian
10-20-2007, 06:36 PM
The problems with my cub seem to lack of washout in wing also they dont appear to be warped in any way & using the combined knowledge of my fixed wing peers (one of which is repairing the damage for me-Im a pretty busy chap & finding time to fix it would take me months to get it back in the air) I will be adding some lead to the nose to try & get the CoG even further forward (altough it stands at the recommended at moment) & raising the airlerons a couple of mm's to induce washout & then our "test pilot" will take it out again, I have yet to fly it-but the general consenus amongest my friends is that if I was to have bad luck it would be the only luck I'd get! (I lost my glider to a dodgy ESC whilst coming into land not so long ago, but a couple of lads in the UK have had the same problem with this models ESC) I'm not a complete newbie to fixed wing I used to fly gliders as a teen, so its a case of learning powered flight Im not a rookie! just "born again" therfore not a case of trying to take turns at low speed & expecting them to come off as perhaps a "rookie" might
Even our "test pilot" has set his soul on getting this Cub "flyable" for me.
But in the event of further problems this model will go one of two ways.
1) E-bay (one careless owner!) or
2) Viking funeral- I will have it towed airbourne & then have small timed charge blow the "POS" out of the sky!
My next fixed wing should be ready to maiden some time next week (I hope I have more luck with this one) If that one proves as problamatic as my last two-I think I may just stick to helis!

guapoman2000
10-21-2007, 02:30 AM
Well,

I went with Gerry to our local hobby store and there she was hanging from the ceiling......one beautiful E-Flite J3 Cub (63 inch wing span) with all the equipment, including Receiver and Li-POLY battery for $335.US!

I believe that Monday morning it may be missing from the ceiling!:D

MRM1
10-21-2007, 03:09 AM
You go Carlos. Then you can bring it and Gerry up this way for a Cub Fly in of sorts.

MRM1
10-21-2007, 03:11 AM
Hey Adrian,
You want relaxed ... Try this (http://www.americanpioneerhobbies.com/37%20liberty%20182_electric.html). I can't speak for this large one, but if it is any thing like its 55" little brother, It will be a sweet big plane to relax with. The small one is the best flying relaxer I have ever seen. Floats and Floats. No bad tendenceis. Glides for ever with power off.

Adrian
10-21-2007, 10:16 AM
Hey Guapoman you dont know how lucky you are-I live in the UK & my Cub has cost me 350 to build-thats $700!
In future I'm going to stick with European/Asian products they tend to do what it says on the box-from the box & at lower prices.

guapoman2000
10-22-2007, 02:13 AM
Hey Guapoman you dont know how lucky you are-I live in the UK & my Cub has cost me 350 to build-thats $700!
In future I'm going to stick with European/Asian products they tend to do what it says on the box-from the box & at lower prices.

Adrian,

You have no idea...I would Love to get my hands on a Bucker Jungmeister (lets say two models new in the box) by ROBBE. It is a Foam RC Airplane model with just Rudder and Elevator as here in the USA they do not have any longer. The model retailed for $99.00 plus shipping and the distributor over here was:

http://www.rc-dymond.com/

However, they claim that Robbe no longer makes this RC Model of about 40 inch wing span. Very nice detail of the Bucker Jungmeister!!!

My buddy enjoyed countless flights on his before someone turned on his channel and down it went. I asked him kindly not to throw it away but, he did not listen and now you can not find them!:o

The only place you can is in South America but, I have to resort and have a family member to buy it for us and bring it over here to Florida and pay up the $$$.:o

It is just too bad that there seems to be somekind of Territory Turf wars with USA distributors and those fantastic models "you" can find in Europe!

Lucky? Not a chance...you guys over there have very nice RC Models...yes, perhaps a little pricyr.

guapoman2000
10-22-2007, 02:29 AM
Speaking of Trainers.....I had one for sale on eBay and within the pages of RCGroups but, no takers....a fantastic deal...

One Hangar 9 ALPHA 60 ARF of 72 inch wing span......however, no takers at RCG's nor eBay....the auction ended at 6:00pm on Friday evening:(

I was helping to sell it for my Cuz as it is really his and what did he do after the Auction ended and he learned that it did NOT sell? He went to fly it today (Sunday) and he stalled it after the Engine quit......can I ask how anyone can stall such a light wing loading? I told him he needs to change his hobby and take up GOLF!!!:mad:

Here's some pictures....

What a crying shame.....this is the third RC Model that my Cuz crashes!!

Oh, he was asking $145.00 at eBay!!!

darylm44
10-23-2007, 03:15 AM
"In future I'm going to stick with European/Asian products they tend to do what it says on the box-from the box & at lower prices."

Where do you think eflite makes these planes, the US????

Adrian
10-23-2007, 06:42 PM
Will have the Piper repaired for this weekend, should (re:Q)maiden & fingers crossed I should get to actually fly it, Will also be getting the club "guru" to maiden another new plane I bought in way of cheering me up after all the carry on with Cub, Its an Alpha models P-51 Mustang (made in CZ) "yank&bank" foamie-but you should check out the detail that comes with the craft its AB-FAB!
Off topic-my heli went in Sunday last, while inverted the tail belt snapped, the girlfriend shouted "what you doing?" As I hit trottle hold & started walking towards the accident I replied "nowt to do with me" as it gently autorotated to the floor still upside down-1st time I've ever got the head button down:)
I'm gonna have to come up with some good luck soon-Ive had a woeful summer:D

Hal-i-chopter
10-23-2007, 07:52 PM
I've seen inverted autos before, usually they flip them back 'right-side-up' before landing ;-)

How much damage?

Adrian
10-24-2007, 07:27 PM
From inverted to upright whilst autoing with trex blades-your avin a laff aint cha!
Actually very little damage, F-shaft, main shaft, flybar, boom & the belt (the guilty party:mad:) of course, the girlfriend said it looked like a sycamore seed falling to Earth(bless her:$). TBH it was probably one of my "lightest" accidents this year, Ive dug a few holes this year year from some good hights-mostly down to that world famous "dumb thumb syndrome" But I started flying helis "not because its easy-but because its hard!"

Hal-i-chopter
10-24-2007, 11:13 PM
LOL, don't think I didn't notice the Kennedy quote. Yeah, when I auger in my T450 or T600 they go in fast. Inevitably I am 'helping' gravity out by maximum collective in the wrong direction.

Adrian
10-25-2007, 08:57 PM
my accident was more a stroke of luck, I think I must had just a "touch" of positive in as it fell (inverted)-which kept the head speed up.
I'm a big fan of the 60's space race-hence the Kennedy quote, I was just a pup during the Apollo missions, I hope Bush will continue funding getting a man on Mars I'd love being able to sit with my grandsons watching the 1st steps on Mars (& a safe return of course)

Hal-i-chopter
10-25-2007, 09:09 PM
I'm reading 'First Man - The life of Neil Armstrong'. Very interesting if you are a fan. But don't hold your breath for the mars mission. Oops, probably should have sent a PM instead on this OT subject.

jd2001
10-29-2007, 12:18 AM
Oh dear! my Cub isnt a cub-its a puppy & now a very sick one to boot.
Took it to local field for "the guru" (the best fixed wing pilot around here) to test fly, the take off was fine, but the turns were a thing of pain as it went into a death spiral, wing is damaged but repairable (although I'm not capable of this-I know a man who can-I hope, if not its a new wing:{). So the damage is wing-bad, prop-no big deal, damaged FG nose-mainly cosmetic, under cart-seriously bent & finally the body lost a few bits'n'bobs which can be replaced & epoxied back into place.
But the thing that bugs me is how can Horizon sell a plane with no wash out on its wing, for me as a relative beginner who wants a "trainer" (I've been flying helis for a couple of years now, so its not like I cant fly) for relaxation-not as "rip the air apart" plane. Here in the UK we have a retail law "fit for purpose" & I'm afraid The E-cub may well be fowl of this, I will be having a word with the legal dept come Monday. I've looked through the manual & no mention of set up warns of "possible" flaws in its construction-GOT THE BAST@RDS!


Sorry to hear about your CUB.....BUT....the crash was the result of pilot error...not design error. The old TOO LOW/TOO SLOW...stall/spin, crash, etc.

This J3 is NOT a trainer, (who said it was?) or even a relaxing plane to fly. It is for intermediate to advanced airplane pilots. Your time with rotors won't help you much with this plane. Want a trainer...get a trainer...not a scale model.

But, be sure to have fun because I hear that is supposed to be the point of all this madness.:D

jd
(experienced CUB Buster)

Hal-i-chopter
10-29-2007, 12:29 AM
I find it the most relaxing of my planes to fly. I just had to learn the lesson of keeping the speed up, plus some tune-ups that make it less prone to adverse yaw.

My rotary flying and symmetrical wing flying didn't help when I first got it because I had never experienced a plane that stalls fairly easily. Now I know.

Adrian
11-03-2007, 08:10 PM
"Fourth" (is that possible?) maiden flight today-she flies & turns without falling out of the sky! (our "guru" flew it & programmed the settings on it) I actually wasnt there to see it(work:sad:) , but I will watch the Youtube video of it soon. The main problem now is the RX, at our flight site we are within 1mile of the biggest chemical works in Euorope & below us run the power to supply a town with a 60K population & my Futaba PCM units aint happy about any interferance from either, I've had problems with my helis at this site (dreaded autos on 450 trex's::o) but today "guru" had 6 throttle shut offs on Futaba PCM unit, they seem dont like any sort of "noise" without shutting down on you. Just talked to my bank manager (the girlfriend) & a 2.4gig conversion for my FF9 TX is looking like the next step. ho-hum more money!

Hal-i-chopter
11-03-2007, 08:26 PM
Can you copy and paste in the URL of the YouTube video to this thread?

jd2001
11-03-2007, 10:27 PM
Adrian (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=6432) vbmenu_register("postmenu_298857", true);

There is something wrong with your electronics.....most likely the Tx.....those sites should not be interferring.

Best find it and fix it before it cost you a flying machine...::o

jd

Reflex
11-03-2007, 11:35 PM
Can you copy and paste in the URL of the YouTube video to this thread?

Main thread
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24793

Video
http://uk.video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1409001

Running 180 watts Max (Static)

No loss of control

Motor turns off
then requires Zero throttle for 1 or 2 seconds to Reset
Motor then runs fine until next shutoff.

Batts today 2x Hyperion 2100mah 20C
wired 3S 2P 4200mah 3S

Under 1000mah returned to each pack on tonights charge

Also unable to reproduce motor cut off at field during normal ground running.

Only way I could simulate the fault was to turn Tx OFF (Motor running, on ground and model held)
On turning Tx back on Servo's work normally, BUT motor stays OFF
until Throttle is returned to Zero for a couple of seconds
THEN it runs normally again.

PCM Failsafe is enabled to turn Throttle Off on Signal Loss

IMO. its a quirk of Futaba's PCM failsafe software
But I'll post again when I have confirmed/disproved this

Reflex
11-04-2007, 10:33 AM
I can confirm it's the PCM Failsafe

On investigation of the FF9 I find the Model "Parameter" set to "Glider"
(Not by me btw).

I set another Memory to "Acro" and copied my settings over, and it now
works perfectly.

On Loss of signal. Failsafe turns the Motor Off
and sets the Model for a mild left Turn.

On Return of Signal
Failsafe turns the Motor back On (without Pilot intervention)
and restores Model control back to the Tx.

Goes to show how much RF interference was at our flying site yesterday :eek:

Reflex
11-04-2007, 08:01 PM
Finally tamed the Cub
No more Violent Spins or motor shut offs
Vid.
http://uk.video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1414339 ;-)

scubabri
11-05-2007, 06:39 AM
So I was having all kinds of problems launching off in my 25 Cub, so I added a e-flite gyro, plugged it into my gear channel, and put about +60 subtrim. It's like a whole different airplane now.

Before I would ground loop it, now it tracks straight, and performs like the real thing on the ground.

sb

jd2001
11-05-2007, 02:16 PM
scubabri,

I don't know much about RC gyros....how does pluging one in to the landing gear channel help? And...+60 subtrim on what?

Thanks,
jd

scubabri
11-05-2007, 02:34 PM
So, the gyro senses changes in heading and sends input to the rudder. The gyro plugs into the rudder channel, the rudder plugs into the gyro, and then the remote sensitivity on the gyro plugs into the gear channel, or any other free channel

By using the subtrim for the gear channel, I can adjust the sensitivity of the gyro and how much change it will allow before it makes a correction.

The higher the number, the more sensitive it is.

This is for a Spektrum DX7 and eflite gyro, your results may vary :)

jd2001
11-05-2007, 02:44 PM
scubabri,

One more question....If the gyro is on in flight does it try to "correct" for aileron turns? Seems like the gyro controled rudder and the ailerons would be fighting one another???

Like I said....don't know much about them....
jd

scubabri
11-05-2007, 03:53 PM
as long as you use rudder to coordinate the turn, I've not had any problems. I f you just use ailerons, then I've noticed that it does want to slip a bit in the turn, but I don't think this is the gyro.

jd2001
11-05-2007, 05:44 PM
Thanks for the good explanations......Something more to add to my list of things to try.

jd

Steve05
11-06-2007, 02:35 AM
I am looking for plan for a super Cub. RC, semi park model with a flat wing that has a wing span of about 60or 70 with a balsa and ply construction

I would like to hear your opinions and recommendations on the plane. i would aslo like to know your opinions on which gas motor, a two stroke or four stroke motor, that would be ideal for this plane.

I would possibly be using the piper as a tow plain for a glider that i woud like to deign and build.

Any thoughts or comments would be great!

Thanks!

rea59
11-06-2007, 09:40 AM
I am looking for plan for a super Cub. RC, semi park model with a flat wing that has a wing span of about 60or 70 with a balsa and ply construction

I would like to hear your opinions and recommendations on the plane. i would aslo like to know your opinions on which gas motor, a two stroke or four stroke motor, that would be ideal for this plane.

I would possibly be using the piper as a tow plain for a glider that i woud like to deign and build.

Any thoughts or comments would be great!

Thanks!

I could recomend some Electric Motors that would work very well. :tc:

You do know that this site is dedicated to Electric Flight.;-)

jd2001
11-08-2007, 02:28 PM
Steve,

If you have not already done so....check here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/aircraft-fuel-airplanes-30/


jd

guapoman2000
12-08-2007, 01:23 PM
Mike (mrm1),

Made another Video of Gerry's E-Flite J3 so, everyone can see up close and personal that you can balance this RC Model very effectively using the smaller 3-Cell, 2100mAH, Li-POLYs and maintain her super light and agile resulting in graceful and smooth flight characteristics.

For those that fly this model and tip stall (most importantly in a spin) then, they maybe in a setup with incorrect CG or other issues. :o

Here's the First (1st) Flight from December 7th, 2007 Fun Fest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LW31mnfryI

Here's the Second (2st) Flight from December 7th, 2007 Fun Fest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXLypUginWA

darylm44
12-08-2007, 07:41 PM
What kind of flight times are you getting? I have been using 2 3s 2100 in parallel and could get >20 minutes but usually set the timer for 15 and batteries are at 40-50% when I put them on the charger.