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Rug
06-23-2006, 04:06 PM
I haven't seen a lot of posts on this plane here, perhaps it's the way I've been searching. It's a really nice model, at least in the box. It features retracts (included) and flaps.

http://www.ultrafly-model.com/airplanes/ufla1010.html

I got the one that included the FRIO motor and a 9x7 prop. While reading through the manual, it mentions this, as an addendum, as being an extreme combination. I'm guessing the FRIO has just enough "oomph" to deal with a 9x7 prop.

One of the first steps is to glue in the firewall. The issue is that there a couple different firewall positions. One for the FRIO, and one for a larger motor. So, this is sort of a permanent step, and I'm wondering what other people are running here for this plane.

I'm relatively new to the whole electric plane thing. I've been flying my Begin-Air for a couple of months now and always wanted a P-51. This plane, in my eyes, is perfect. I've also raced RC cars for a few years, so electric seemed like a natural step. So, I'm not a complete noob, but I'm not clear on the whole motor/prop combo thing.

Thanks!

Old Fart
06-23-2006, 05:20 PM
I haven't seen a lot of posts on this plane here, perhaps it's the way I've been searching. It's a really nice model, at least in the box. It features retracts (included) and flaps.

http://www.ultrafly-model.com/airplanes/ufla1010.html

I got the one that included the FRIO motor and a 9x7 prop. While reading through the manual, it mentions this, as an addendum, as being an extreme combination. I'm guessing the FRIO has just enough "oomph" to deal with a 9x7 prop.

One of the first steps is to glue in the firewall. The issue is that there a couple different firewall positions. One for the FRIO, and one for a larger motor. So, this is sort of a permanent step, and I'm wondering what other people are running here for this plane.

I'm relatively new to the whole electric plane thing. I've been flying my Begin-Air for a couple of months now and always wanted a P-51. This plane, in my eyes, is perfect. I've also raced RC cars for a few years, so electric seemed like a natural step. So, I'm not a complete noob, but I'm not clear on the whole motor/prop combo thing.

Thanks!

Rug,

Don't take this poorly, but if the Begin-Air for "a couple of months" is your only RC aircraft experience, it won't make much difference where you put the firewall - the plane most likely won't stay in the air very long. :eek:

P-51's aren't IMHO a good 2nd plane, they have very particular flying characteristics, need to be flown fast (especially through turns). I've seen several of these at the field, they fly "ok" on the Frio (but if I were buying one I'd be looking at a larger outrunner)

If you do put it up, get someone experienced to launch it and trim for the maiden, fly it, and have them land it. Trainer cord/buddy box can be a great help too.

Rug
06-23-2006, 08:57 PM
Not taken poorly at all... I need all the help I can get!

I don't plan on putting it up into the air for at least another month or so, perhaps longer. I try to fly everyday, usually after work and my goal was that I need to take off and land 20 times in a row without crashing the BeginAir before I consider this P-51. I'm in no hurry to build this thing, but I need to make a power decision early on that appears can't be undone.

I had a bunch of glitching problems with the default setup on the Begin-Air that since been replaced with a Spektrum setup, I believe that was my biggest issue with the plane (besides me).

Is there some skill set I should try to achieve with the Begin-Air? I've had a Nexus 30 previously, never did forward flight, flown a lot in G2 sim and am a gamer (must help a bit) :)

Here's what I've accomplished so far with the Begin Air...

Inside Loop
Outside Loop
Flown as fast as it will go
Glided it in for a landing
Rolls
1/2 Loop + Roll (I don't know what that's called)
Touch and go
I mostly take off from the land, but I've done some hand launches(seems harder)
Tried that thing where it goes straight up and then tilts over to one side and dives down. (did, sort of sloppy, but kept it in the air)
Flew it in 15MPH with + gusts wind. Learned that's too windy, but was cool, it actually hovered into the wind a couple of times (and landed!)

I really only feel comfortable with the loop and roll things, and somewhat the takeoffs, but the landings need a bunch of work. I land it, but only because I have quite a bit of space.

Old Fart
06-26-2006, 03:54 PM
1/2 loop and a roll sounds like an Immelman turn to me.

Biggest problem you'l have transitioning to a warbird is going to be stalling, especially tip stalling. I'm trying to remember if there's a P-51 on G2, I know G3/private developers have several for G3.

Rug
06-27-2006, 04:07 PM
First, thanks a bunch for your response!

Yes, G2 has a P-51. It's my favorite plane, it's the one I have always flown when I wasn't flying the choppers.

I actually never thought I'd get a plane, I flew the P-51 when I wasn't trying to figure out the choppers.

Like I said, I had a Nexus, and determined I didn't like the whole nitro thing and stuck with my cars.

I then tried my dad's 3ch parkflyer and was hooked. I then found the Begin-Air. It has 4ch, came with everything for $150 and I was hooked. Then I saw the Ultrafly mustang, and determined that needed to be in my hanger.

I love the whole parkflyer thing, wind permitting, I fly a pack or two on my way home from work everyday. After getting past the horrible radio issues with the Begin-Air, I've been enjoying this hobby very much.

I've also determined that I'm a bit over my head with building the Mustang. The directions don't help a lot, and I've never built a foam kit before. Oh well, after I crash this one, I'll have more experience building the second one. :D

Old Fart
06-27-2006, 06:17 PM
I hear you on the "second one is faster", it took me about a third the amount of time to build my second Alfa F-86 :)

Skaweee
07-03-2006, 07:08 PM
Hi Rug. I hear you on the whole P-51 thing. I'm fairly new in the game as well, and always wanted a war bird. As a matter of fact, war birds is why I even got into the Hobby in the first place.

I started out with a nitro trainer and have gone through others up to an E=Flite Mini Edge, so I feel I am ready for my first war bird. Like you I decided on the Ultrafly P-51 because of the retracts and flaps options. But I think I'm going to take it one step further and go for a brushless outrunner that can handle a semi scale 4 bladed prop. That would totally do it for me.

I am thinking about using the same set up as tha Flying-Styro P-51 at Hobby-Lobby http://www.hobby-lobby.com/p51b-oldcrow.htm. This would be the AXI 2212/34 with the 9 X 7 four bladed slow flier prop, both availible from Hobby-Lobby. Sence I am fairly new to the electric thing, I would love some input from anyone out there as to weather this is do-able, and what type of ESC and Lipo would work best.

The Ulrafly P-51 is a little bigger and heavier than the Flying-Styro P-51, but the specs for the 2212/34 says it's for planes weighing up to 28 oz. According to Ultrafly, thier P-51 weighs in at around 23 oz. So I assume this would work.

Anyone out there care to comment?

Skaweee
07-03-2006, 08:12 PM
Just found this a few pages back in this forum. Looks pretty good. I'm sure the same power setup would work for the Ultryfly, including the GWS 10 X 8 four bladed prop!

http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_29&products_id=201

keithmartin
09-11-2006, 01:27 AM
I have purchased the P51 and after spending several weekends putting it together, I am not really pleased.

The first thing that I did not like, was the way that the foam gets beat up during the build, any little bump and there is another dent.

The second thing that I did not like about it was the stickers that are suppose to be used to cover the nose. It is next to impossible to get them to look right, so I invested in an air brush and did my own paint on the nose and tail, I did use some of the sickers on the wings and body.

The worst yet is the retracts, I spent great amount of time making sure that they worked properly, being the first retracts I have done. On the first roll, it got about 20 ft on the asphalt before they both broke at the pivot point, seems that these are very thin plastic parts going throught the brass piviot arm. When they failed the prop hit the pavement hard, and knocked the Frio motor outer magnet housing off the attachment plate and damaged the prop. Now I am waiting to get a new set of retracts, glad that I did not put the flaps in.

Oh, I almost forgot, the CG is not possible without removing extra foam and moving the battery an additional 1.5 inches forward. I set it up for Frio 1450 motor, using a 25 amp CC, 3 cell 2100 battery.

firemanbill
09-11-2006, 01:42 AM
Keith thanks for that post.

I have been looking at getting one of these but have been holding off. I have the GWS P-51 (Well actually it is my sons) and have enjoyed it a lot. I also have the ultimate Bipe by Ultrafly and love the denser higher quality foam. I had hoped the Mustang would be similar. I think I will hold off and look for one a bit bigger. The gws and the Ultrafly models are about the same size. I liked the idea of the retracts and flaps being included on this model but that may not be such a deal after all...

keithmartin
09-16-2006, 04:27 PM
Keith thanks for that post.

I have been looking at getting one of these but have been holding off. I have the GWS P-51 (Well actually it is my sons) and have enjoyed it a lot. I also have the ultimate Bipe by Ultrafly and love the denser higher quality foam. I had hoped the Mustang would be similar. I think I will hold off and look for one a bit bigger. The gws and the Ultrafly models are about the same size. I liked the idea of the retracts and flaps being included on this model but that may not be such a deal after all...
Bill,

Even with the dents that I caused during building, the P51 is a good looking plane, I just can't wait to get it into the air. I will be looking into the retracts more, maybe the replacement ones will not have the problem, maybe it is just me.

I was also thinking of the Ultimate Bipe, I have the GWS PT17 and I really like it, I am getting ready to put a different motor on it for a little more pep and finding a more realistic radial motor. How do you like the Ultimate?

Keith

firemanbill
09-16-2006, 05:29 PM
Bill,

Even with the dents that I caused during building, the P51 is a good looking plane, I just can't wait to get it into the air. I will be looking into the retracts more, maybe the replacement ones will not have the problem, maybe it is just me.

I was also thinking of the Ultimate Bipe, I have the GWS PT17 and I really like it, I am getting ready to put a different motor on it for a little more pep and finding a more realistic radial motor. How do you like the Ultimate?

Keith

Keith I really like the Ultimate. The only thing that I don't like is the way the battery goes in. They could have dievised a better way of doing that.

It flies great whether you are going low and slow or really wringing it out. I programmed in flaperons on my dx6 with it and can land it very slow, slow enough to stop in about 3 feet if I really work it.

I had the same problem with the foam denting on top of the wing when I turn it over to put the battery in. Now I just put a piece of soft foam on the ground to lay it on.

I did cut wing struts out of ply and used them instead of the foam. With the park 480 outrunner in it the weight difference is negligable. I also used bigger rubber lightweight tires and have shedded the wheel skirts. She will take off out of short grass ok now. It still likes pavement better though.

I may still end up getting the P-51 yet...:D

Solid Hit
11-07-2006, 04:44 PM
I just ordered the Ultrafly P-51 with the Frio motor and it should be here on Thursday. I'll give a report on it as I'm going along. I've had very good experiences with Ultrafly so I'm suprised to hear the negatives. It is the same type of foam used in the GWS models so I'm not suprised to hear about denting, it just has to be handled a little easier.

firemanbill
11-07-2006, 05:15 PM
Cool Bill! Look forward to hearing your report.

My Ultimate is still going strong! I really enjoy flying it. I have now had her in the air in 3 different states! (Not all on the same flight though...)

A real nice flier!

I think the foam is denser than the GWS birds. I know it's the same type but it just fells thicker to me somehow, tougher. Maybe it's just my perception though...

Solid Hit
11-10-2006, 08:45 PM
Bill,
It got here last night along with my U-Can-Do (birthday presents to myself).

The U-Can-Do is now built and I looked over the P-51. I had to call UltraFly because my wing saddle was crushed and it would look awful if I built it that way. A new wing is on the way but I have the fuse halves together and the glue is drying.

More latter!

firemanbill
11-10-2006, 10:17 PM
I'll be watching close Bill, I dorked in my GSW Stang today. :(

It's fixable but I may take it up a notch to the Ultrafly if it seems like it would be worth it... I've got quite a few flights on the little stang so it may be time to move on.

Twizter68
11-13-2006, 03:34 PM
Bill, I was reading on "that OTHER forum" most folks reccomend replacing the supplied retracts with GP .10 retracts. I'm looking at this kit myself...gotta fing a home for some of those extra b/l setups laying around! ;)

Twizter68
12-04-2006, 01:09 AM
Got it yesterday, started glassing today....

Twizter68
12-10-2006, 02:25 AM
Glassing is done, putting it together and painting tommorrow; may do a full build thread on a new one after I flight test this one!

Flyer 1
12-10-2006, 07:10 AM
I second the replacement of the standard retracts with the GP .10 unit. I've got an Ultrafly but haven't built it yet (I build just about every P-51 I'cn find). However, they don't look quite sturdy enough to stand up to serious use.
I'm currently fitting a set onto my Venom P-51, the best-performing electric 'stang I've flown to date. Since it's based (HEAVILY) on the GWS Mustang, the GP unit will fit in easily, with a bit of foam carving.
Rug, to be honest I believe you CAN fly the Ultrafly P-51 after plenty of experience with the Begin-Air - it's an exceptionally good aileron trainer, and if you're able to consistently fly it as you suggest the P-51 shouldn't be TOO much of a leap. A leap, yes, but not an insurmountable one. A GREAT choice of motor (if you decide the Frio isn't zippy enough - they WERE designed to be "entry-level" outrunners - is this (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLWT6&P=M) Rimfire outrunner. Use a 10 X 6 prop and you'll be going vertical until you lose sight of the model.
What you'll experience with this "jump" will be mostly a LOT more speed and the fact that the P-51 has very little self-correcting ability. In other words, it's going to drift into a bank and STAY there until you center it, unlike the BeginAir. Other than that, you'll fly it like the other plane except to constantly remind yourself that:
1 - It's going at roughly the speed of light and you've got to PLAN your turns/banks ahead of time, 'cause the Mustang is going to BE there before you really have time to THINK about swirling the sticks. In other words, fly ahead of the plane 100 feet or so. This, thankfully, will go away. Not the plane's speed, of course, but you'll adapt quickly and it'll seem no different than the BeginAir after awhile.
2 - You'll need to pay attention to your flying and keep the plane in clear view 100% of the time as you're learning. You can't afford to turn to your wife/girl/significant other and yell "Look! Ain't that cool!". You can THINK it, don't DO it. Try telepathy - I have!
Always be mindful that the tiny aileron input you gave your BeginAir to start a bank/turn is going to send the P-51 into a roll. That's what it's supposed to do, of course; the trick is to learn exactly how much stick to apply to achieve a modest bank instead. That, my friend, is 95% of the battle right there - getting your aerobatic airplane to "straighten up and fly right" instead of rolling all over the place, giving you an anxiety attack, and slamming into the nearest telephone pole. Give just enough stick to KNOW that you're moving the control - pretend there's a thin layer of nitroglycerin between your thumb and the stick and it'll go off like a firecracker if you move it too fast. You'll be rewarded with a slow drop of a wing and a mild turn. Don't forget the up-elevator, but go easy - it won't need as much as the BeginAir.
When you're through turning you must bring the plane OUT of the turn with opposite aileron. You know this already, I know, but the BeginAir sort of rights itself after a certain distance. The Mustang is going to STAY in that turn until you level the wings again.
About the time you get to the stage where you'cn manuever your P-51 around like this fairly competently, you're going to realize that you don't want to go back to a "trainer-type" plane ever again, unless it's for those quiet relaxing Sunday flights or teaching newbies. Being able to go exactly where you want when you want is priceless. Don't push the learning curve, though - patience. Pretty soon the skills will "burn a rut" into your nervous system and it'll seem just plain natural.
You can actually tell what I'm talking about with a flight simulator. You indicated you've got one - fly a Mustang around for half an hour performing wild manuevers (crashing doesn't count!), then quickly load up a "SlowStick" type plane. You'll find to your amazement that you're NOT flying it well; you may in fact be crashing the danged thing all over the place! It's not that you can't fly it but you're instinctively trying to make it perform outside it's flight envelope like a Mustang. This, in my opinion, is ONE reason so many VERY experienced flight instructors with ducted-fans or real jets under their belts "accidentally" crash a beginner's Cessna on its maiden voyage while hooked to a buddy box. Of course they claim it was "out of trim" or some such excuse. Not their fault, really, and I confess to having done the same thing myself. It's bad PR, though!
There's another helpful tip to maximize your success but I think I'm about out of room in this post... I'll make another to continue.
Flyer

Flyer 1
12-10-2006, 07:41 AM
(continued)
Ok. What I'd recommend, if you can't have that instructor with you on the maiden, is this:
Do a pre-flight over every square inch of your Mustang at the field. Not at home but at the field after your radio check. Triple-check the throws and most importantly the centering of the control surfaces. Make sure ALL are centered as perfectly as possible, and the CG is correct. If anything, it's far far better a tad nose-heavy than the reverse.
Lifting off shouldn't be a problem, but you'll likely need some right rudder to counteract torque and keep a straight course. This will disappear when you rotate and become airborne. If you need a bit of up elevator to do that I recommend you use the trim to adjust the elevator to keep it in that position. Chances are you'll NEED it there. Find the setting that'll fly your P-51 with a very slight climb rate - that's where you want it.
Ok, you're now airborne about 50 yards out. Now is the time the Mustang is going to show you what other trims it needs, i.e., it's going to drop a wing to one side or the other. DON'T over-react, here. Just nudge the plane back to level flight. Keep it flying straight and either adjust the trim with your free hand or just hold it in place as-is for now, because we're going to -
CLIMB! Yep, climb straight out and up. Try for 200 feet or more, but also don't go much past 400 - you want to be able to see the plane's control reactions very clearly. Just get up there without any turning at all, or if you MUST turn to clear an object or stay in your flying field, make it a LEFT turn. This will use very little aileron since it's helped by the torque of the motor. Straighten it up again when heading back, then turn left AGAIN and head back upwind.
Now that you're at altitude, adjust your trims properly. A very slight climb for the elevator, the wings level for the ailerons, and the rudder doesn't slew the back of the plane to either side. This is why you climbed up here; there's plenty of room for a mistake or two.
Now's the time to start practicing those turns. Remember, easy on the stick. Forget about the rudder for the time being, the ailerons are enough for now. Make several circuits of the field, practicing slow, easy turns. It's right here that you'll learn the basics of dealing with a low-wing aerobat. If you find that you're doing well and this isn't HALF as hard as you'd though, do NOT succumb to the inevitable urge to try a roll! You'll just get yourself into trouble and likely won't get out of it (this flight at least).
That's pretty much it, for your first dozen flights or so. Practice turning and staying at a set altitude. As you become more comfortable, begin making the turns sharper. Remember to never allow the plane to travel too slowly during the turns - the Mustang will snap very easily if turned under speed.
You're almost there. For your first roll, have the plane heading into the wind. Tilt the nose down very slightly, and give the amount of aileron you would for a sharp turn. This time, just hold it there. The Mustang will respond by beginning a turn, then the wing'll dip until you're inverted, then it'll come back up on the other side. You'll lose altitude, but don't try correcting it until level again. Your first roll is complete.
Now, practice stalling (at altitude). The Mustang will very likely drop a wing to one side or the other as it does - "snapping". Correct it and pull level. Do this quite a few times.
Believe it or not you're almost there. Landings will be tricky at first, as the Mustang won't stand for the slow approach style of the BeginAir. Bring it in fairly fast, and just allow it to sink to the strip. Once on the ground, watch out for a ground-loop - after you bleed off some speed it's wise to give some up elevator to keep that tail down.
And that's about it. With this level of competence under your belt, you'cn take off and land safely and keep it airborne. The rest is just practice.
Soon you'll be making flybys with complete confidence. It's just a matter of keeping it in the air LONG enough to ingrain these basics, and that's where the initial climb to altitude is so important - it gives you the TIME you need. Most crashes involving beginning Mustang pilots occur close to the ground after an attempted turn; you're removing this from the equation with your initial climbout.
I'm pretty much convinced that the no-nonsense, do-nothing-else intital climb to altitude will help ALL beginning pilots of ANY aircraft. So many flights begin with the pilot wrestling with the airplane to avoid a tree or building and ending up punching a hole in the ground. Don't LET it happen. Altitude is your friend!
Good luck!
Flyer

Twizter68
12-11-2006, 05:24 PM
Well, one more coat of yellow, and the paint will be done! Fried the retract servo last night (GRRRRR....), but have a new one enroute! Will post pics of paint after I'm done. BTW; I may peel the Invasion Stripes off and paint them on; those stickers stink!

PerlAddict
01-13-2007, 09:03 PM
So what ever happened to the pics? :D I've been looking at some other P-51's and the Ultrafly caught my eye.

Crashalott
10-14-2007, 04:34 PM
Hey there Flyer 1
I like youre Avatar, how did you get it to do that?
You gave some very good advice on Flying the Mustang in your post.
I am thinking of building another one myself and am looking for Plans for a foamy build. I usually build with Elmers Foamboard all my scratchbuilds.
I have seen plans for a couple of 51 builds but haven't quite found what i want yet.

PerlAddict
11-18-2007, 08:26 AM
I did a search on Google for the Ultrafly P-51 and found this thread, which someone rezzed just a month ago, suprisingly enough. Long story short - I ordered one from OhYes!RC tonight, so if you've got any tips aside from the aftermarket retracts, feel free to share. :)