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Glacier Girl
06-30-2006, 05:27 PM
Well I bought one of these puppies, after sampling the 52" version, which I electrified.
Now then, this is a completly new venture for me, as I've never attempted something this big. So if anyone would be interested in it I can do a build here on line. Might help out anyone considering a big bird. I have some ideas as for what I want to use and do, but I'll be more then happy to hear any and all input as to what might or might not work.:D

Here's a couple of pics with it and the 52" version so you can see how big it really is.:eek:

ForestCam
06-30-2006, 06:37 PM
Dang it! I shouldn't have looked! *drool* I've barely even started on my 52".:p

Glacier Girl
06-30-2006, 07:21 PM
There's a silver version too. You could have a set.:D
http://www.nitroplanes.com/newprpli5292.html

Grasshopper
06-30-2006, 07:48 PM
How cool is that!!!! I'm still waiting on my 52" to arrive. I'd love to see videos too once you get to fly it. Have you considered putting in a sound system for real sound? I would think you would have plenty of room and it's only money right?

Glacier Girl
06-30-2006, 08:41 PM
Grasshopper,
You know I considered it. I've been following the forum down in the warbirds section on it.
Well I just got off the line with Tomas at VQ Models, he's set me up with the air retracts and struts for this one, will have the correct rake on the nose gear.

Grasshopper
06-30-2006, 10:18 PM
Grasshopper,
You know I considered it. I've been following the forum down in the warbirds section on it.
Well I just got off the line with Tomas at VQ Models, he's set me up with the air retracts and struts for this one, will have the correct rake on the nose gear.


GG, It sounds like it's going to be a great plane! Can't wait to see photos as you progress with it. Be sure to keep us posted.

Glacier Girl
07-01-2006, 03:19 AM
Well I spent most of the day at work, online tracking down parts and pieces. It's good to be the manager. I can shut my door and play.
But it cost me. Didn't get out of the shop till 7:30 p.m.:mad:
About the only thing I accomplished was checking empty spaces for where to put the packs, when I got home. No problem.
Here's six 2S2200 20C packs, under the front of the wing. There's 8 1/2" in front and 9" behind them, of open area, in the booms. And the front section is roughly 5" x5" square, so I could triple the packs if need be, and still have all kinds of room.:D

thunder1
07-01-2006, 03:36 AM
Very nice;-) What motors are you going to use?

You might have to put the batteries in the gondola in order to get the CG right. In the wing, they are right on the CG and you'll probably be tail heavy. But the model could be built very light in the tail and you may not have to worry about it.

The RTF weight is listed at 12 lbs. That sounds really light. Somewhere around 25 oz/sqft wing loading. If you end up near there you'll have a great flying model.

Glacier Girl
07-01-2006, 12:08 PM
Thunder1, thanks.
Motors are located here. http://www.aarchobby.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=716
If they are not enough, there is a bigger version available.
From the info I've gotten from the guru's over on RCG they should have the power to fly her well. They are actually Tower Pro motors. I've used some of their smaller motors and have been very pleased with them.
And heck they are 1/3 the price of the Axi's I was considering.
Yeah CG is going to be critical, the above photo was more just to show how easy it will be to place the packs. If need be I can push them forward another 8 inches in the booms.Once I'm sure of the pack size I'm going to use, and have everything installed, I'll then work out the final placements of the packs.
Trying to keep the packs in the booms so I don't have to run long leads to the esc's. It's roughly a 3 foot run from the esc's to the where the packs would be in the nose. With boom mounts I'm under a foot.
Like I had said before I have to build her to be able to be taken down for transportation. Hence the dual Rx's and such. I want to keep the unplugging/ plugging of components to a minimum.

Glacier Girl
07-01-2006, 12:34 PM
Ok for anyone who's keeping score.
Prices so far.
Bird - $250.00
Retracts/struts - $285.00, less then what I have in the 52" version.:mad:
Servos - $370.00
Spinners - $16.00
Esc's - $235.00
Rx/crystals - $135.00
Motors - $100.00
Rolls of battery wire - $65.00
That's oh somewhere around $1400.00 so far.

Still have to add wheels and possibly brakes. Somewhere around $350.00
Props, what maybe $40.00
Misc hardware/wires/wood/etc. - $150.00
Packs???? I'm guessing in the $600.00 range per side.
So I'm up to around $3200.00 ready to go.:eek:

Bill G
07-01-2006, 01:16 PM
It appears that the plane is the most inexpensive part, at $250.:eek: That said, I still will probably do something like this one day. The plan: Sell half my fleet, get an Airworld ME262. The one plane I'd take over them all. It makes the P38 project's budget look like that of a GWS Beaver.:eek:

The P38 is still probably second on my list. Something about them twins. I may scratch build a P38, like my FW189, finised a few weeks ago. If it flys well, the P38 scratch build will look appealing. Use the same GWS C47 wing, reworked A10 tail, scratch built booms, low cost bl motors with CC9's, and inexpensive mech retracts. The retracts will probably break, but then I'll just replace them with the next step up, the $20 version.

Well, the project did end up costing some loot, but here's the poor man's P38:

Glacier Girl
07-02-2006, 12:43 PM
Bill,
Nice!!! Did you build the center section of the wing yourself?
A 262 will probably be my next, have always been intrigued by it.
Have to go with edf's on it.
Nothing happened yesterday other then taking a lot of measurments.
Dang "Honey Do" list.

Bill G
07-02-2006, 02:46 PM
Bill,
Nice!!! Did you build the center section of the wing yourself?
A 262 will probably be my next, have always been intrigued by it.
Have to go with edf's on it.
Nothing happened yesterday other then taking a lot of measurments.
Dang "Honey Do" list.

Its a stock GWS wing, with the C47 engine nacelles cut off. I even cut them off real neatly, for possible future use on something.:eek: A few reinforcing CF spars are the only mods.
262s with props don't quite get it. The EDFs are tougher to do, but then it looks correct. I actually had thought about this wing for a 262. Add a bit to the TE on the wing panel portion, inside of the nacelles, for proper shape. Hack the middle, and re-glue it to create the swept wings.

termite
07-04-2006, 01:54 AM
Keep it comming Brad,

Very nice
Randy

Glacier Girl
07-04-2006, 08:50 PM
Thanks Randy.

Oh well holiday off, managed to get a little accomplshed. Motors are installed and mounts made up. None of what the LHS had in stock looked strong enough to handle the torque that's going to be put on them. So I'm looking at the gas mounts that came with the kit, and hmmm, gas motors put out a lot of vibration, hence the heavy materials used in building up the firewall, as in this one it's a double 1/8" lite ply wall.
Wonder if I can convert these over? Well what do you think?
1/8" aluminum plate I had laying around, popped off the nose of one of the motors and made a template for the holes. Drilled and counter sunk the mount screw holes, and drilled out the others. Then using a drill press I drilled each mount end 1 1/2 inches deep and ran self threading screws in them. Squared the plate to the mounts, added a little epoxy to the screw holes, and drove the screws home. Now then I knew the mounts were not quite long enough to give the motors the right position, in reference to the cowls so measured them up and cut some hardwood spacers. Oh and I added aprox 3 degrees of down angle to the blocks and 3 degrees right to the mounts. Anyhow centered up the mounts on the blocks and marked the holes for the mounting bolts on it. It was a simple matter of centering the block on the crosshairs already on the fire wall to line everything up. And yes I did dry fit everything to be sure once the cowls were on all was right. Tacked the blocks into place with a little CA, and drilled the holes for the mount bolts through the block and the firewalls. Installed the retaining nuts, and bolted all back up and checked the fit one more time. All was good so unbolted the mounts, and glued the blocks to the firewall with 15 min epoxy. While I was waiting for the epoxy to dry I pulled all the mount screws out and put a little threadlocker on them. Don't want anything comming loose. Epoxy dry, bolted all back up with threadlocker on the bolts. And that was about it...............
Ok I had to make sure the motors ran, so I rigged up an rx/esc/lipo set up, and yep they both purrrrrrrrrr.
Now hopefully the retracts and servos show up so I can get rolling on them.
Oh one big tip, my motors came with the correct length mounting screws for the aluminum plate thickness. Make sure yours do not go too deep or they will hit the wires inside the motors and all the magic smoke will leak out.

OLDCROW
07-04-2006, 11:39 PM
Just a comment. I will be following your thread as I have a dream to convert a Wing Man. P-38 to electric, but as I said it is a dream. My question is why the right thrust built into the motor mounts? Most P-38 conversions use counter rotating props which eliminate the need for any thrust correction. Isn't this one of the advantages of using electric motors, reliability? Hopefully you should never have to concern yourself with single motor operation.

Glacier Girl
07-05-2006, 02:06 AM
OLDCROW,
It's planned ahead. LOL Looking at props so far, pushers in the scale for this one 15 " at least are few and far between in three blades, from what I've seen. So the down and right are for what's available, both tractor style. If and when I get the correct pitch/diameter figured out, and can find a pusher/ tractor combo, I did sneak in a way to change the amount of down and right thrust I've installed. If you look close at the second picture, where the mounts meet the wood, you'll see a washer in between. I made it so I could shim the mount with washers if need be.
Good point though, I should have mentioned it.
And knock on balsa, I hope I never do see a motor out.
But just in case I've been looking at adding gyros to help out.

Nobert
07-05-2006, 08:16 PM
Brad,
Did you end up going with the HiModels 4120/4130 motors?
Neal

Glacier Girl
07-05-2006, 09:45 PM
Neal I have the TP 3250-7 motors on board right now and the bigger 3520-7 on hand if need be. According to the specs the 3250's will give me 3600 gr of thrust on 5s, so that's ummm, 254 oz total or nearly 16 pounds of thrust out of both of them. Better then 1:1 there.

Love these so called cheap motors, my 52" version flies on a pair that were around $12.00 each. And hey, if they puke, I can replace em two additional times and still be where I would if I had bought the Axi's.

Grasshopper
07-05-2006, 10:04 PM
Hey GG, I don't want to hijack your thread but what "cheap" motors did you use on your 52" model? I've ordered one and I'm looking at the setup for it now. I'm probably going to use a pair of bp21s but would like some feedback from someone who's actually flown one. If we need to throw this into another thread, I understand.

Glacier Girl
07-06-2006, 12:13 AM
Grasshopper, that's ok, the BP's you are looking at are actually Tower Pro motors that are relabled. I used 2410-9y (970kv)versions on mine.
With the 9x7 3 blades, they pull around 9 amps. It powers the bird ok, but I'm not getting all I can out of the motors.
I have different diameter and pitch props on the way to get some more out of them, they aren't even making the 3s2100 packs sweat.
Actually I ordered 26 sets of various 3 blade props from MAS, APC, and Zinger, from 10 x7 to 16 x 10. Should give me a lot of playing with set ups to get the most out of the motors. Alas, only 2 of the combos are available off Horizon's site in tractor/pusher versions. Should keep me covered even if I jump to the bigger motors. I can actually fit a 18" diameter prop on the 90" bird with room to spare.
I get my motors and such from AARCHOBBY, not the cheapest place out there, but Tony's always been good to me, and I usually get my stuff in 4 days from Hong Kong.

Nobert
07-06-2006, 12:50 AM
Brad,
I'm building the K&A P-38. It's going to come out at 4 lbs +- a little. I was going to use the HiMax HC2816-1220. Motor calc stated I'd have great performance. But the motors are $71 each and I'd like to try either the W3825 or the ones you're using. I can't get the motor spec on teh TP stuff to plug into MC.
What are your suggestions.
Thanks,
Neal

Grasshopper
07-06-2006, 04:04 AM
Thanks GG. Just a couple more questions and I'll let you get back to your thread. Do you think the bp21s will power the 52" plane well? I most likely will not be installing landing gear and would like to use (2) 3S2100 mAh 15C packs. I don't care that it does unlimited verticals but I do want it to be well powered. I've looked around for the Tower Pro site but can't find it. Comparing motor numbers between brands is virtually impossible and since I'm new to brushless, I'm still trying to figure it out.

Thanks for the help.

Glacier Girl
07-06-2006, 11:25 AM
Neal,
Specs on the 3520-7 motors can be found over on RCG. The guru's there have huge thread on them. You should see some of the birds they are running with em .
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431127

Grasshopper,
What's the kv ratings on the BP21's? I can do some playing on M/C for you to see what it looks like. Also check the thread over on RCU in the glow to elec conversions. If I remember correctly someone did power one with the BP's, and/or the similar nipppy's.
I have the 2410-9y's also in my B25 and she humms right along at 1/2 throttle. And here's a weird one. Both birds use approx the same size props. 9x7 3 blades, 2 different mfgs. the B25 draws 16.8 amps total for both motors. I run it on a single TP 3S2100 pack.
The B25 showed it's stuff the other day, gusting winds and I dumb thumbed it on take off, straight up into a stall, all I had time to do was go WOT. And she just started to go up, no hesitation just started clawing straight up. Could have been really ugly. But she climbed up and I leveled her out and she just proceeded on like nothing.
She weighs in at around 2 pounds, and the P38 is 4. Like I said before I'm still not getting all out of them on the Lightning. She flys well but it's not enough zip like the B25 has. I want to play with the different prop combos to see what I can get out of her.Right now the motors aren't working up a sweat flying around.

Grasshopper
07-06-2006, 02:32 PM
Thanks again GG, I'm checking on the kv rating for the bp21s and also for the 2410-12s. I read through the threads on RCU last night and got more good info from several builds. As I mentioned earlier, I don't want 3D capability but I do want it to fly with authority. If I understand correctly, you used 2 packs of 3s 2100s is that correct?

Admin, If we need to move this to another post to keep the 90" build thread clean, please do so. I'm sure I will have an on going list of questions for building the 52" bird and I don't want to clutter someone's thread.

Thanks for all the help here.

Glacier Girl
07-06-2006, 02:54 PM
Grasshopper,
I don't mind a P38's a P38, no matter the size.
Yeah, 2 packs mounted under the canopy.
The 2410-12Y's are 1270 kv rated.

Grasshopper
07-06-2006, 03:02 PM
This may an excercise in futility, but for now, I'm trying to size all my planes so they use 3S 2100 lipos. I only fly park flyer size warbirds (Around 36" to 40") wingspans and would really like to keep all my packs the same for now. I'm sure as this crazy addiction progresses, I will buy something that will require another size pack or packs but for now, it's working.

I'm still very confused on the whole rpm/kv thing and how to size a motor and even more confused on what the numbers mean. Comparison shopping is very frustrating for me so I ask a lot of questions of the guys who have actually built and flown the models I want.

Glacier Girl
07-06-2006, 03:08 PM
Ok back to the 90. Well a near disaster last night.
I'm gluing up all the hinges, trying to be as neat as possible I went out and bought some syringes to get in close. All going well and on the right aileron, the plunger binded up a little. And what happen when it binds up, of course I pushed a little harder. Whoosh, a full load of CA all over the wing and aileron. AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Grabbed some acetone and a rag and mopped it up. Green paint turned a sickening yellow/green color as I got it wiped off. Oh sheep ship.
Anyhow got it mostly off and paint went back to it's original color. So now I have a section that looks like it was clear coated vs the rest that is a flat green. Don't know what they used for paint over the covering, but acetone didn't even touch it. I'm going to sand the CA'ed area and mix up some paint to get a good match to correct the boo boo.

Anyhow a tip I picked up somewhere. If you are using CA hinges. The cloth style. Take a crayon, and mark the center of it with a color close to the covering color, on both sides. Does a couple of things. Gives you a mark so you are sure the hinge is in both sides enough. The CA won't stick to the crayon, so the hinge stays very flexible and not stiff, and using the color makes the hinge almost invisible instead of being a bright white.

Glacier Girl
07-06-2006, 03:25 PM
Grasshopper,
oh the joys of electrics.
I know what you mean about motor numbers and trying to figure out what they mean.
As for kv's I look at them this way. low kv= slow speed and big torque. high kv = high speed and low torgue.
Then you throw in over powering a low kv motor to get high speed and high torque out of it, and all the rules go out the window. LOL
That's where calc programs can be a help. Not always 100% accurate, but can give you a feel for what's going to happen with different combos.
MotoCalc has a free 30 day trial, and there are several other ones out there. At least with MotoCalc you can plug in your birds airframe specs and generate a report of what your power selection would do.

Glacier Girl
07-06-2006, 03:33 PM
And nothing wrong with sizing your birds around a certain pack.
Packs can be rewired into higher series/ parrallel combinations if need be.
I actually do pretty near the same thing. What I've been doing is snapping up 2S 20C packs in the 2500 range. Then I can cobble them together to make up various setups as dictated by the bird I want to fly. That way I can spread the useage around to multiple birds, instead of dedicated packs to each bird. Not only that, but picking up and combining packs is often cheaper then buying something like a 6s pack already built, and if one of the pack's cells goes bad, I only have to deal with taking apart a 2 cell pack vs rewiring a 6, or I can just yank the offending pack out of the combo and throw one in in it's place, and deal with the bad one later.

Glacier Girl
07-07-2006, 12:17 AM
Woopie!!!!
The mailman brought me a present.
Direct from Spring Air. My retracts and struts. I can't wait for the weekend. Got all my "honey do's" done and just finished mowing the yard.
Will take lots of photos. ;)

ForestCam
07-07-2006, 02:05 AM
And nothing wrong with sizing your birds around a certain pack.
Packs can be rewired into higher series/ parrallel combinations if need be.
I actually do pretty near the same thing. What I've been doing is snapping up 2S 20C packs in the 2500 range. Then I can cobble them together to make up various setups as dictated by the bird I want to fly. That way I can spread the useage around to multiple birds, instead of dedicated packs to each bird. Not only that, but picking up and combining packs is often cheaper then buying something like a 6s pack already built, and if one of the pack's cells goes bad, I only have to deal with taking apart a 2 cell pack vs rewiring a 6, or I can just yank the offending pack out of the combo and throw one in in it's place, and deal with the bad one later.

Exactly how I got a pair of 3s 2600s for $15 each. :cool:

feathermerchant
07-07-2006, 03:16 AM
Glacier - How do you intend to cool those motors? I noticed o cooling holes in the 1/8" Al mount. I always drill mine.
BTW I hav used 1/8" aircraft Al just like you did. Works great to at least 1,000W.

Grasshopper
07-07-2006, 04:28 AM
Thanks Brad.

I've copied the PM over to the thread so others might possibly learn too. I was actually considering running two APC 10x7E props on it. I have several of them for my P-47 so again I'm trying to keep things the same in my field box.


Originally Posted by Grasshopper
Hi GG,

Hope you don't mind the PM, but I didn't want to clog up your P-38 thread. Here's the specs on the motors I'm looking at for my 52" P-38. It would be a big help if you could take a quick look at them and give me a yeah or neah on them.

Thanks for all your help.

Tom

2410-08 Motor Specifications:


Weight:54.5g(Inlcuding Aluminum Mount)
Size:31(Dia)*27(L) mm
Output Axis:M3
BATTERY:2-3LIPO
KV:1260
PROP: 9*4.7/10*4.7SF
CURRENT:0.7-12A
VOLTAGE:7.2-12.62408-21 (bp21) Motor Specifications:

Weight:47g /1.7oz (Including the Aluminum mount)
Size:30(Dia)X27(L) mm
Output Axis:M3
Max Current:14A
BATTERY: 2-3LIPO (7.2V-12.6V)
KV:1750
PROP: 2LIPO 9X4; 3LIPO 8X4;2410-12s
kv 970
prop 1047-1260
max current 14A
2-3cell lipo



Tom,
Not a problem ask away on the forum.
Like I said a P38's a P38.
Ok I had to do a little playing as I didn't have the exact resistance and no load current for the motors. You didn't say which prop you were going to try and use so I just used what I use, 9x7x3. If you want to try a 2 blade give me th esize and I'll rerun everything.
Here's what M/C had to say with the 9x7x3's.
Per motor.
2410-8: 11.3 amps, 14.1 oz thrust, 118.1 watts
2408-21: 11.5 amps, 10.4 oz thrust, 120.3 watts

Now on the 2410-12 s you have me there. The kv rating you listed is the one for a 2410-9y, 970.
the 2410-12s that I found says 1530 kv.

970kv: 10.3 amps, 16.7 thrust, 108 watts
1530kv: 11.6 amps, 11.9 thrust, 120.6 watts.

Now then my prop would throw my opinion off if you want a different prop but here goes.
The 970kv version is #1, more thrust, less amps.
followed in order by the 2410-8,2408-21,then the
1530 kv 2410-12s version.
In this case high kv rating is detremental to prop speed. Low kv can swing the bigger prop faster, as it has more muscle, at less amps.
But if you go with a slightly smaller 2 blade it will make a heck of a difference in the outcome.
Something I learned on the Strykers, using a low kv motor at higher voltages gave me a set up that could swing a bigger prop, pitch and diam.
I ended up with a bird with 20+ mph and nearly double the thrust of the so called hot set ups.
There is one rule in electrics. Watt's Law.
Watts = Amps x Volts. No matter how you do it, you can multiply in any configuration and it comes out the same. Amps x watts=volts, volts x watts=amps. How you get to the watt figure is the trick. Guys were using a 2300 kv motor on 3 cells spinning a 6x5 prop. I used a 1270 kv version on 4 cells and spun an 8x6 prop.
So using Watts Law, the high kv set up produced 288 watts of power 11.1v x 26a=288.6 w
my set up 14.8v x 30a= 444.w
I had over 150 extra watts pushing my bird. And my motor was spinning 7000 rpms slower.
It's confusing as all he!! at first, but one day it will click and alll make sense.

If you have questions fire away on the forum, it's all about sharing, someone else may have the same question.
If you want to try some different prop combos, give me a list and I'll be glad to run em for you.:D

Brad

termite
07-07-2006, 05:32 AM
You're a good fella Brad,
Helping and sharing is what this hobby is all about!!!

BTW; the P-38 looks cool too!

Keep it comming.
Randy

Glacier Girl
07-07-2006, 11:20 AM
feathermerchant,
You're right I'll add some small holes to the faceplate. I had already decided to add some baffles inside the cowls to direct the air. I think the esc's will fit nicely right in the chin intakes, so they should be ok.
May even add some additional holes in the cowls to get lots of air flow.
One thing about using aluminum, it becomes an instant heat sink. So it will in itself help cool the motor.
Keep the tips coming.

Glacier Girl
07-07-2006, 11:45 AM
Grasshopper,
10x8x2's look something like this
970 kv=10.9A,114.3W, 14 thrust #1
1260kv=11.7A,122.1W,11.6 thrust #2
1530kv=11.8A,123.2W,9.7 thrust #3
1750kv=11.7A,121.5W,8.3 thrust #4
remember these are M/C figures, to get the actual, you need to do your own testing using an Astro or Watt meter to see what is truely happening.
You can build a simple stand and using a scale, with the meter, it will tell you exactly how many amps the motor pulls, how many watts it produces, and how much thrust you get from the blade.
Stand is a piece of cake to build out of wood.;)

Glacier Girl
07-07-2006, 11:55 AM
Something else Grasshopper,
The high kv motors shine, driving a gearbox. same prop,packs, and 1750 motor on a 2:1 gear box. 1 less amp, watts cut in half, but thrust and speed go up to slightly better then the 970 kv motor spinning the same prop on its own.

Grasshopper
07-07-2006, 02:20 PM
Thanks but excuse me while my head explodes!!!!!!!!!

I really appreciate your help with this Brad. I'll try to wade through all this and make some sense of it this weekend. I was curious about metering the system. I use an Astro Flight Super Whattmeter. I assume I meter each motor seperately and then add the two together?

Glacier Girl
07-07-2006, 04:25 PM
Depends on how you have them wired up to the packs.
If you run 2 motors off a single pack like I do on my B25, just plug the Astro inline between the pack and the lead going to the esc. Will give total watts,amps, etc for the pair. On the P38, single pack per motor, same hook up but gives you single motor info, double the thrust and watts to give your total specs. don't double the amps as that's the figure just for that pack.
Hmmm, you just made me think of something. Would be wise to check both motors independantly. These cheap motors very often can show up with different kv ratings then what is listed on the web sites. Would tell you real quick if you have a higher or lower kv motor on one side. Which could cause a really nasty yaw condition as one motor would be pulling harder. Going to have to check that one out tonight.

Grasshopper
07-07-2006, 04:28 PM
Depends on how you have them wired up to the packs.
If you run 2 motors off a single pack like I do on my B25, just plug the Astro inline between the pack and the lead going to the esc. Will give total watts,amps, etc for the pair. On the P38, single pack per motor, same hook up but gives you single motor info, double the thrust and watts to give your total specs. don't double the amps as that's the figure just for that pack.
Hmmm, you just made me think of something. Would be wise to check both motors independantly. These cheap motors very often can show up with different kv ratings then what is listed on the web sites. Would tell you real quick if you have a higher or lower kv motor on one side. Which could cause a really nasty yaw condition as one motor would be pulling harder. Going to have to check that one out tonight.


Good point! I'll make sure to note that and check it when the time comes.

Glacier Girl
07-09-2006, 02:15 PM
Well after a lot of "Honey Do's" I managed to sneak back into the shop and started on the retracts. First major stumbling block. The struts come with no directions. Kit is 3 oleo strut tubes, 6 bushings, a steering arm, 3 wire struts, a bunch of allen screws,and a collar. First thing I notice, 3 of the bushings do not fit the wire struts, the hole is too small. Second item was none of the bushings fit the strut tubes. Third was the strut rods are way too long for the strut tubes.
Man I'm like Grasshopper on electrics. This is unexplored territory for me.
Web surf trying to find info on the struts, nada.
Call up on the experience of RCU and a gasser builder comes through with a sheet on Robart struts, which appears to be what I recieved with the Spring Air retracts. Now it makes some sense. 2 different size bushings dependent on wire strut size. Strut tubes have a rolled in end that has to be cut off to use the bushings. Allen screws are used to retain everything, but you have to drill and tap your own holes. Now have to find a 10/32 tap. Anyhow looking at the set up, I never think anything is good enough, I see what I think could be a weakness. Basicly all you have is a 3/8" i.d. tube, with a 3/16" wire inside it. The bushing is approx 1/2" long, and the wire runs down 1 7/8" into the tube. The bushing sits at the top of the strut tube, and nothing else supports the wire in the tube. All I see is a recipe for disaster. The tube is going to bend on the first sign of force against it. Simple leverage at work, the top of the strut is secure to the rod, the bottom at the wheel end isn't. Ok it isn't going to bend much, but it could be enough to screw up the clearances in the retracts to fuselage, and cause a hang up. I do not like the idea on comming in with one leg not down. That would be ugly.
So I have 3 bushings the wrong i.d. that won't fit the wire struts. Hmmm
Break out the drill press and machinist's vice and drill out the bushings to the correct i.d. Then disassemble the strut tubes and drill them out to fit bushings top and bottom. Press in the bottom bushing with a coat of 15 min epoxy, do the same with the top one. Cut off the wire strut to fit, leaving the coil on for back and forth spring action, along with the up and down from the oleo. Now then I read on the directions, the rod needs to be attached to the bushings with either JB Weld or silver solder and the allen screws. Well there is an almost interference fit between the strut wires and bushings so JB Weld doesn't look like a good candidate. Ok dig out the silver solder and proceed to solder the tube, top bushing and wire strut together. Apparanetly the tubes are dip coated, not painted and it doesn't like heat. So the top of my strut coating blistered. After it cooled down I tried sanding it off so I could repaint the damaged area. That's when I found out they are dipped. Could not get the coating to feather edge, just wanted to roll up. Well by that time it was nearly midnight, and I said screw it. I brushed on some paint over the bad area just to cover the bare metal. I'll remove all the top coating from the strut later and repaint it. Luckily I have some paint that came with my B25 that is almost a perfect match. Which reminds me of one last thing, will need to find a match for the paint on the fuselage. Tried both Nitro Planes and Raidentech and they both said they cannot get it or provide the codes.
Will not deter me. I run an auto collision shop so I'll find a match for it and mix up my own. Anyone else, I might suggest taking one of the panels to a paint store or someplace like Lowes and having them match a color up.
Why do I mention this? Well instead of letting good enough alone, after cleaning up the CA spill on the one wing, I tried a little CA debonder on it. Took the excess CA right off, along with the paint. SO I'm going to be touching up that area, along with maybe gear doors when I get to that point.

Glacier Girl
07-10-2006, 01:39 AM
Well today wasn't the best day. I thumped my B25 big time.
Should have known better, soccer field hasn't been mowed in a while and grass is clumpy at best. Flight was beautiful, wind started to kick up so I figured I wouldn't fight it and decided to land. Was near perfect, came down on the mains, dropped onto the nose gear and disaster hit. Nose gear held fine, the fuselage snapped off right up against the wing, and to make matters worse it rolled into the left prop, after the prop chewed it up the rest of the bird decided to plow the field. Bird is a write off, but looks like all the electrics, motors, and pack are fine. Oh well.:(

Anyhow went back to the shop and decided to start on the install of the nose gear. Oh there was the moment of terror at cutting into virgin covering and sheeting but all went well so far. Opening is between the 2nd and 3rd formers, I looked at some photos and took some measurements and eyeballed it to where it looked about right and that's where it fell on the fuselage. Opening is 4" long and around 3" wide.
Like I had said before I'm going to build the gear plank out of the bird then slide it into the fuselage after I brace up the inside. Then I'll cut out for the strut and wheel. Make some templates out of cardboard and re lay the sheeting. Don't know about adding wheel doors just yet, we'll see what happens.
Just some misc shots of the cutting, the opening, how the inside looks(1/8" formers and what looks like 3/32" side bracing, 3/16" stringers and 1/8" balsa sheeting), and what the gear should end up looking like.
From meticulus measuring, ok I laid the retract on some blocks and retracted the gear, and measured how far up I needed to go, I found that the bottom of the retract needs to be 1 1/4" up from the fuselage bottom for the wheel to fit inside. I'm going to go 1 3/8" just to be sure. Supplied wheels, which I'm not going to use are all 2 3/4". I'm going to a 2 3/4" on the front, and somewhere around a 3 1/2" to 3 3/4" for the mains. As I don't have a paved strip yet, I want some gear that will be able to roll over rough terrain. I'm going to pick up some 1/4" liteply to build the plank and use 1/8" for additional bracing of the formers.

EDIT: added a photo of the B25 carnage.

Grasshopper
07-10-2006, 01:56 AM
Man that sucks Brad. Sorry to hear that! If there is a silver lining, it could be that you have an even bigger twin in progress now to keep you going.

Glacier Girl
07-10-2006, 02:06 AM
Oh and just for S &G's, ok someone had told me the motors I was using were to high of a kv (970) and would not spin up a big blade, and if I used a smaller one, would posssibly explode the magnets.
They would not work above 5S packs, and oh my mounts wouldn't work either, too weak.
Well no time better then the present to find out.
I used what I had on hand. I rigged up a 30 amp esc with a 3S pack to power the rx, and a CC35 to run the motor(bec disconnected). Wired up a 6S2500 20C pack (three 2Spacks), hung an APC 11x9 x4 blade on it. Hey it's what I had. Remembered to batten everything down, and stand way back at the rear of the boom, and hang on tight. Oh and I set the brake to on, just to see what would happen with the mount when I cut the throttle. Ok clicked the throttle up slowly, motor purring, prop blasting, got it up to 40 amps and the esc cut out. So redid it and ran it up to 38 amps and held it there. 585 watts, and was pulling like a mule. Did it 3 more times for 30 seconds each. Motor was barely warm. and the mount never moved when the brake applied or when I hammered the throttle.
Now I know this isn't what it will do with a 3 blade on it, but I figure a bigger 3 blade isn't going to pull much more then the 4 blade I used.
So we'll see what happens when the 3 blades get here. As for the mounts I don't see a problem. And the motor seems quite content at pulling a big blade around.
Oh almost forgot, on the final run up had a surprise. I was using a prop adapter that uses 2 set screws to hold it to the shaft. Now I didn't flat spot the shafts, as I was going to use collet type adapters. Anyhow on the last run up, WIZZ, I heard the prop slipping, then BANG!!!.
The prop and adapter launched, straight as an arrow across the garage and nailed the wall, put a 1/4" deep dent in the vinyl tile on the wall.
NowI know whay I stood at the back of the boom. Would not have been pretty having a 4 bladed prop hitting me in the gut. Whew!

Glacier Girl
07-11-2006, 12:00 PM
Anyhow, don't expect this to be a wam bam, thankyou mam build.
I spent 4 1/2 hours last night just building a template for the nose gear.
Measure,measure,measure, cut, sand, add, over and over.
But I have it. Now I can pick up some 1/4" liteply and build the real one.
Will be slick, after the retract and steering are installed on it, it will slide in from the rear opening of the gondola at an angle, and snug up against the 3 main formers and the firewall(?) former at the front. I'll add the additonal former braces and supports after it's in place. Hmm, at this rate should only take a week to get this done.
Then I have to figure out the steering. This one instead of a single tiller uses a dual arm set up, so no control rod. Will use wire leader material to build it. System needs to bend when the retract operates. More fun I think.

Glacier Girl
07-15-2006, 02:44 AM
Sorry for the delay in updates. Local LHS is going out of business, after 36 years, and I'm looking into the possibility of buying it.

Anyhow, servos finally arrived today, and I'm impressed. 176 oz of torque at 4.8 volts. That's 11 pounds of pulling power, so control functions should not be a problem. Dual ball bearings, metal gears, built in heat sinks. Servo arms are heavy duty and the part that fits over the servo gear is banded for extra strength.
They were around $30.00 each, I bought 10 to use, 9 for the bird and one spare. I'll use a Hitec 55 for the LG operation. That and I finally located some 1/4" aircraft grade plywood, so I can cut out the plank for the front gear and get it installed. I also picked up a metal cable dual steering set up and some other misc stuff, like wheels, spinners, and ball control horns. Oh and I took one of the rudders and got the paint mixed up so I can do any touch up work needed. And finally got the specs to one of my pals to make up all the correct numbers/ insignias and nose art for GGIII.
So even though not much is showing build wise I've been busy getting a lot of the little stuff handled.
Pics show #1 the servo and metal banded servo arm, and #2, what comes with each servo, with a Hitec 81 for size comparison.

Oh and I almost forgot, TwinMan, the twin guru on the rcwarbirds site finally got back to me and said with the set up I have planned, I shouldn't need gyros. Finally money saved, instead of spent.

So hopefully I can get rolling again and get some more stuff done on her.

ForestCam
07-15-2006, 07:28 PM
Sorry for the delay in updates. Local LHS is going out of business, after 36 years, and I'm looking into the possibility of buying it.


Looking into getting your stuff wholesale 'eh? :D

Glacier Girl
07-16-2006, 01:58 PM
LOL, yeah only cost me a bundle to save a couple bucks on parts.
That makes sense.............doesn't it.

Nobert
07-16-2006, 06:02 PM
Glacier Girl
Where did you find the Blue Bird Servos?
Thanks,
Neal

Glacier Girl
07-19-2006, 12:49 PM
Neal,
Found them here.
http://www.nitrohouse.com/acces,_servos.htm

Nobert
07-19-2006, 02:21 PM
GG
Thanks.
Neal

SCALEFAN
07-19-2006, 11:56 PM
Let's do some comparing,

1. Buy a hobby store, with complete inventory intact, at a below wholesale prices. Not only that, get terms for the payoff. Also assume the lease at a bargain price.

2. Buy an empty store, that once was a hobby store, get a new lease at the normal market price, buy back all the inventory at normal wholsesale prices and pay cash. No credit is available for a new business and you certainly don't want to put up the equity in your house.

Um, let me think about this..number 1 or number 2....I did...It's too late to buy this hobby store, they already had the going out of business sale. Glacier Girl, you saved yourself from incurring a humongous loss, because, number 2 option is all that is left.

Best bet is to keep building planes and having fun.

Al G.

Glacier Girl
07-20-2006, 01:35 PM
Al,
You forgot #3, look at the books. Or in my case look at piles of paperwork and some notebooks with scribbled remarks. Old time owner who was still doing most of it in his head. Computer system is basic DOS system, no real programming done, has some semblence of inventory in it. Ok if you punch in a part # it will tell you cost/retail, no quanity on hand.
Accountant says paperwork is a disaster, have yet to find tax info on it.
The store does have potential, once it's streamlined and what they attempted to sell is modified. Trying to compete with crafts, when there is a Michael's right down the street, or selling guppies and such when you can buy the same at less prices at Wally world, which is right across the street, next to a Kmart, I don't know.
Now then, other than the internet super stores, nearest competetors are a minimum 1 hour drive one way for anything R/C or scale train. That is what drove this store, it seems the other things were more of an afterthought, as some of the stuff in the crafts section has been there for years, untouched, at least from the dust build up and faded price tags.
And that from what I can see handicapped the store, so many directions caused a lack of inventory on the movers, as space was taken up by stuff that just sat around. Poor business in my thinking.

Honestly I want the name only, and maybe a couple of the employees.
I want the customers to feel they are headed back into a store that's familure to them. Marketing on the old name will help draw back the old customers, this was one of those "Good old boy" kinda places when it came to R/C and trains.
What I was looking to do was keep the "Good Old Boys", and infuse them with the "Young bloods". Make it a place they would want to come to, not need to come to. Just in my experience, and ok maybe from a lot of the electrical crowd that I've talked to, you have 2 basic types of shops.
The "only gas is king" or the "super store" where you are overwhelmed with selection and totally underwhelmed with service and knowledge.
I managed to change my gas only store to seeing the light somewhat, in terms of electric powered birds. And I started seeing some new faces showing up in the store, and at first if I was in the store, guess who the clerk point to when a customer had an electrical question or airplane suggestion. I became the defacto expert, when in fact I was a newbie too. But I learned, not only about electric flight, but that the newbies to it were often just as lost as me going into either type of shops.
There's where I see my in to such a huge availible market. I want a store that I feel comfortable in, where it's like the bar "Cheer's", where everybody knows your name, even if it's your first time in the shop. A place you can go to and get the RIGHT answers to your questions. And where you don't feel like a fool, when you show up.
Sure I'll fight the price wars with the internet, but at lest from what I've experienced, most of the internet has no real customer service if you have questions. So, go ahead and buy from them, I'll take the time to show you why it doesn't work, and I'll gladly show you what you need to make it work. I will make them see cheaper has it's cost too. So you paid a couple dollars more at the LHS, for the same bird you could buy cheaper on the internet, but knowing you can go into the store and get the expert advice to make it work will mean something to a lot of folks, especially when they go to make their next purchace. And that in a way is why I would keep a couple of the employees, they have been there for decades, not weeks, or months. They have experience in their part of the store, and they have their own customers per say. People know that if it's an R/C car they run to Matt, if it's a gas or now electric plane, Bruce knows it, and so on.
What I've found out too is most of these customers want to help out other's too. When the old guys come in, and one of the clerks goes to them for info with a new customer, you can see it in their eyes, they like being the all knowing guy. That is a feeling I want all customers to see. Knowing they came to the right place for the answers and proper guidance. Yes I look at the money end but I look at the people too, both employees and the customers. Often a problem with one side will influence the other.
How I see this store is the old general store, with the pot belly stove and a bunch of the guys hanging out. At least that's how I want it to feel.
I think this will work, no I believe in my heart it will.

Ask yourself, what is the type of store I would want to do business with?

Sorry about that. Got a little carried away there.
Brad

Grasshopper
07-20-2006, 03:04 PM
Well Brad,

I think you are dead on with how the store should "Feel". As a newbie to electrics, I thought it was just me that felt like an idiot walking into a hobby shop and asking questions. I've run into two different types of shops in the past few months since I've been back in RC. The first is the one you walk in to and since you're not part of "Their Group" they say "Let me know if you need help" and you never see them again. They also made me feel very unwelcome with my electric questions. The second type and I'll even say their name (KC Hobbies in Archdale, NC) make you feel right at home the minute you walk in. I travel to NC frequently and I always stop there. The people in that shop always make it a point to say hello when you walk in the door and always come over to ask how they can help. During my first trip there, I told them I was totally new to electrics and had a lot of stupid questions. They took me over to a young man and said this is our electric expert, he'll take care of you. And boy did he. He was extremely helpful and thoughtful in how he explained things. It's also important when explaining things to newbies (or anyone else for that matter) that you don't come across as a condenscending know it all. Kind of like the first time I took guitar lessons and spent 45 minutes of every hour having the guy show me what he knew how to play instead of teaching me.

Long story short, customer service is key! One of my responsibilities in my job is that I have a Customer Service call center that reports to me. We have 25 call reps on the phone helping customers. Believe you me, I know when those reps didn't treat a customer right. Bear in mind, I don't believe the customer is always right, but they should always be treated fairly and with respect. The world of customer service is not black and white. There is a lot of gray area and judgement calls have to be made. I most generally lean towards the customer's side in those cases.

If you have the right products, fair prices and outstanding customer service, you'll have a winner. Good luck with your adventure. It will be nice to have a job doing what you truly love.

Ok, sorry, now I got a little carried away.

Tom

SCALEFAN
07-20-2006, 03:27 PM
Looks like we have the same idea, but different ways to go about it. The best way seems to be already unavailable. Your alternative however, does not sound good.

1. You now start witn an empty store and two employees that want to get paid.
2. You have to buy inventory, set the store up with fixtures, pay utility deposits and sign a lease.
3. You soon will find that you are spending lots of money on new computers, a point of sale system, internet web site, advertising etc. and you aren't even open yet.
3. Finally, you open for business, the shelves are stocked, your assets are hocked to the hilt, and you only have enough spare cash to last a month.

First day you sit and watch while your two key employees use 1/3 of their day giving advice but sell nothing. You see frustrated customers standing around because you set the store up wrong, in order for them to buy a prop, they have to get the attention of one of those key employees first.

Your accountant figured that you need to gross at least 2,000 per day to break even, but all you end up with is horse voices and 200 in sales.

How do I know all this? I am an accoutant, have been for 40 years. 85% of new businesses fail because of lack of good management, and not enough working capital. I won't even take a new business as a client, they require too much time, can't pay the fees, operate based upon a dream, and have no experience in being self employed. Business owners have to be educated in how to use their time well, by making money from what they do best. That is, spending time in doing what their area of expertise is in. Instead, they get bogged down in doing things within their business that don't translate into profits. In this potential business, time will be wasted trying to manage the key employees and what they say to customers. After a while, you will get tired of hearing them tell you the way the business used to be run. How are you going to teach them to sell, they were already a part of a loosing business.

Don't mean to be negative, just want to answer the ideas mentioned in the previous posts. Businesses aren't set up to give advice, they are set up to make money. It's not much fun to hear customers say, thanks, but, don't buy anything from you, they buy from the internet at a discount instead.

Al

This post is constantly being edited, as I am presently trying to follow my own advice.

Glacier Girl
07-20-2006, 05:49 PM
Al,
You are dead right on, on a lot of your points.
But to modify the info you had to work with. The "Key" employee's, have the mind set of advising with selling mixed in. The old owner put them under the thumb so to speak as to what they could or couldn't do. It was a store that if it wasn't in stock, they were not supposed to advise the customer, well at least the new ones, that it could be ordered. The line was "we don't carry it". Nothing more. The employees were in a lot of cases just as frustrated as the customers walking out the door. Me being the little rat bass turd I am, would just ask to order it when they told me they didn't stock it. A sale is a sale, whether it's in stock or has to be ordered. And even though I didn't like to have to order stuff, it does make me come back again, and at least in my case I was always picking some other "Gotta have it" when I showed up.
And sure all new businesses may have their growing pains, that's where I've found customer input is a great info to have. Knowing what the customer wants will definitely make a business change it's direction, and not knowing could easily be the difference between success and failure.

You are so right, there is a lot more involved then buying some stock and hanging a sign out front.
You need advertising/marketing/computer/management/ and people skills to name a few to make a business work. And you need to have trust/ faith in the people you use to run your business.
And yep most one person shops do tend to fail, be it lack of money, too many hours, or just plain old poor business.
I in no uncertain terms do not plan a one man shop. I will have the correct people in place to handle the store. I will not spend 24 hours a day trying to run something. I've learned a long time ago to find the good people and learn to delegate responsibility. And through some very wise investments, I doubt money or credit will be a problem.
No this is not a flash in the pan dream, I've looked into all the little not thought of stuff, like workers comp, health ins, retirement plans, security, buildings, leases vs owning, buying vs building and of course location,location,location.

And yep you always will have the window shoppers and free advice takers, those that never seem to buy. But are they happy with what they get on the internet, and if so, why are they showing up at your store?
Again I see it as a chance to grab some of them and turn them into customers. I know I'll never get them all. But one is more then none.
Later,

ForestCam
07-20-2006, 06:22 PM
I'd almost rather a shop tell a customer that then what my LHS does. All I ever get when I ask for something is "We stock it but were out at the moment. Check back next week and we should have more in." It took them nearly 6 months to get heat shrink back in after I bought the last of it. Last summer I asked for a servo extension, they had an 8" and a 12" and I bought the 8. This spring I needed two 12" extensions and ALL they had was the one 12" I didn't buy before.
Although their big box of slightly misaligned industrial strength double sided tape for 25 a roll was nice while it lasted. :D

Glacier Girl
07-20-2006, 07:46 PM
Lol

Glacier Girl
07-20-2006, 08:51 PM
Ok back to the thread, Not a lot going on, sorry.
I have been playing around with the nose steering, making sure it's going to fold correctly when the gear retracts. I originally was going to use clevis ends on the steering arms, but they seem to be causing a bind when the gear folds up. I'm using 1/16" steel cable on my set up and they are not real flexible, so I'm going to try the loop/clamp method of attaching the cables as this should allow some more flexibility. Oh and I may have to relocate the steering servo, as the gear retracts right over the top of it, and it's real close to the servo arm, no biggy, just will need to recut the plank that all sit on.
Other then that, I removed the original motors and installed the bigger ones on board. They are 1 kilowatt rated, and from the testing on RCG, they seem to be very stout. I'm thinking of dropping the smaller versions I removed in the 52" version, as it flew ok but was just enough.

It's been in the mid to upper 90's this week, and no wind to speak of.
The shop is not air conditioned, well at least not right now, I'm headed to Lowes and picking up an A/C unit. Maybe then I can start making some progress.;)

SCALEFAN
07-20-2006, 08:57 PM
While going to high school I worked a short time for Friendly Ice Cream in Connecticut. They were very precise with thier formulas and quantities, before you were allowed to wait on a customer you hand to memorize a very large formula and procedure manual. Customer service was their trademark, make the customer happy and don't give them more ice cream than the formula calls for. The last line of the last page of their procedure manual said the following.

"If you see someone standing at the cash register, drop everything and take their money"

I never forgot this. I service clients first that pay fast and pay big.

Down the street from my office is Ultimate Hobbies. They recently moved from a very profitable small store into a large monstronsity down the street. If you want to see how not to design a store, it would be worth the trip to Orange CA. They will not last very long. All the typical replacement items, like props and Du-bro stuff are behind the counters, a sales person is needed to get a prop. The sales people are not experienced in selling and allow customers to take up their valuable time, they bragg about who they used to be, and what they built 10 years ago, while paying customers tap dance and spin in circles. You will wait 1 hour to buy a prop. I drive 3/4 of an hour to Gyro Hobbies instead, no BS, they just have the typical replacement items that I need where I can grab and pay for it. They also will order stuff and have it in two days.

Brad, you have good ideas, and obviously you have some real good business sense. In addition, you appear to be the type of person that puts your ducks in order before going on the march. Good luck with your potential purchase, however, would you please finish the P38 before you invest in a new business.

Al

Glacier Girl
07-21-2006, 12:12 PM
Al thanks for the compliments, I owe a lot of it to my Grandfather.
A dirt poor farmer, as most saw him, unless they added in the insurance business, slaughter house and auto businesses. The two most important things he taught me were the Golden Rule and to use common sense, something that is lacking in a lot of businesses. He was the type who used a handshake to settle deals, a man who's word was his bond.
When he passed, my relatives gobbled up the businesses, and ran them into the ground. Me I bought the farm that no one wanted. I had a deal with my PAP to buy it for $50.00 an acre, which pissed off the relatives as they are all money hungry, so I settled with the estate at $700.00 per acre. Never said boo about any of it. Just paid the price and walked away smiling. I now own 225 acres of prime farm land. I lease off much of it to surrounding farmers. Oh and the rest of it, since I also own all the mineral rights too, I have leased out to coal and gas companies, after selling off the timber. While my relatives have squandered what they got, I'm sitting on a black gold mine. And just to piss them off even more, Pennsylvania has what is called a Clean and Green act, no commercial buildings built on the land and all taxes are cut in half on the property, so I filed for that, and got it.
And the property sits in a section of the county where taxes are almost non existant, seems the county made a deal with the waste dump site which is on the other side of the county to use fees on waste haulers to cut taxes. I pay less then $200.00 a year combined in property and school taxes.
And no, I am not the type to lay waste to the property and leave it. PAP looked after that, all contracts state the ground be returned to original condition and contours, and all plant life of my choosing is to be reinstalled. Right now I'm finishing up 25 acres of ground that will be my new flying field, with a 500" x 50" runway and a 300 yard by 150 yard pond, courtesy of one of the mine companies.
And lastly the property borders approx 2 miles of county road, where the county is looking to install a methane gas line,recycled from the dump, $34.00 per foot to access my property 3 feet in from the road, which is nothing more then the ditch on the side of the road.
And no I'm not the type to sit back, something else my PAP taught me.
I work full time, build furniture, and find the time to build and fly.
I do everything around the house, unless it's a requirement for permits to use certified contractors.
The LHS is just something I see as a need, not only for me, but for the modeler's, the newbies, and even the community.
I tend to try and "pay it forward", I didn't have anyone to teach me the craft so to speak in R/C airplanes, and when I see someone in need I give away stuff to help them along, I don't even guess at what I've given away, I just look at what it does. I honestly don't care if the shop makes money the first year or two. I want to help the employees, who in my thinking don't really have experince in anything other then what the've done for years. I want to help the modeler's so they don't have to drive and hour or more one way in the hopes they may get something they need. And I want the newbies to find a home, someplace they can feel comfortable with. Sure I'll battle the internet sites, but I have my contacts in the business, and I have ways of getting around what the price is on the internet, I too can buy from their suppliers, heck most internet sites don't produce their product they buy it, and I'll beat them at their own game. Similar prices, no shipping charges, and service, before, during, and most importantly after the sale. Customer Satisfaction, is a big thing, get the customer happy with where they do business and they don't mind how much they pay, they will see the added benifits of doing business with me.
I use the car business, as I know it, you can drive a Yugo or a Rolls. Why? They all do the same thing, get you from point A to point B.
Same with R/C, you fly an ARF or you fly a Bob Violet jet. Why do customers stick with a certain franchise? Often it's the service after the sale, heck the local Lexas dealer offers free pick up and delivery, free loaner cars, full cafeteria, free broadband internet, and a free kiddy land. People are paying big bucks for the same basic transportation they could get from a Yugo. But it's the benefits they get from buying a Lexas, that keep them coming back. Same need, transportation, but for a lot, what they get with a certain one means they pay for it. If they want more, guess what, it ain't free. Doesn't matter that it says it is, they are paying for it. and they are gladly paying for it. Sure there will always be a Yugo/internet customer. But once they see what is availible I may be able to change their mind too.;)

SCALEFAN
07-21-2006, 02:39 PM
Brad,

All I can say is Wow!, what a good story.

However, please finish the P38, you can fly it from your new field.

Al

afineman
07-21-2006, 06:33 PM
GG

Darn, are those fingers of your tired yet Hee Hee Hee.

Nice thread Brad, and I'll once again make the offer to drive down and be the camera man on this maiden:D .

Brent

Glacier Girl
07-21-2006, 07:39 PM
Hollywood,
I'll save it for the opening of the field. Definitely going to need the room.
And yes you are invited, just don't bring Hazy.

ForestCam
07-21-2006, 09:35 PM
Did ya get that window shaker in yet and any progress made? :p

termite
07-21-2006, 10:45 PM
Brad,
Best wishes from the "internet guy"

If I can help in any way let me know :)

Randy

Glacier Girl
07-24-2006, 11:39 AM
Thanks again Randy.

Ok made some more progress, even though it doesn't seem like a lot got done physically. Lot's of measurements taken, drawings made and a lot of coffee. Just trying to get proper positioning of everything to keep the CG close so I'm not hauling around a lot of extra dead weight to keep it balanced. I trimmed and fit the horizontal stabilizer and rudders, and mocked up the bird to see where she's at CG wise to start. Used almost a whole roll of masking tape to fit everything on. VERY tail heavy, which is what I hoped for, as an empty shell. Taking the various bits and pieces, dropping or taping them into place on the fuselage(s).
And she's still just a tad tail heavy. But that's ok. As I still need to find the proper spot for packs and determine their size, so that should take care of that. As for actual building about all I accomplished wa building the esc trays and soldering up the motor connections. I placed the esc trays, built out of 1/16" lite ply, just below the motors, and right behind the chin intakes in the cowls. There is an approx 3/4" hole in the fire wall below the motor mount, that lines up with the intakes, so I used it to make up a ram air system that should keep the CC 60's nice and cool.
Other then that, I spent most of Sunday balancing props, and painting the tips red. Oh what fun, as there were somewhere around 20 sets of props to balance and paint. Another wack upside the head as to how big this bird is going to be. Grab a 16 x 10 x 3 blade and look at it. Just the thought of 2 of those spinning gets the heart a pumping, and mocking them up and seeing almost 2" of daylight between them and the gondola, WOW! Playing around with these size props did find a weak point in my build, so to speak, they are way too big for standard prop adapters.
Pop them on the adapters and the threaded portion is swollowed up. Hmmmm going to have to find or build new longer adapters.
Well that was about it, except I did get side tracked a little, but hey it's P38 related. I took the original motors the 2915-5's and dropped them in the 52" version, I was running little 2410-9Y's in it and it flew but not with any real authority. Bumped the props on it up to 10 x 8 x 3's and on 3S it leaps off the ground, no more long runway take offs. And man does she come in hot. Cut the throttle and it's an immediate nose down and speed up. May have to move the packs around to get the CG more centered instead of nose heavy, and flaps may be in the future to help whoa her up on landing. Heavy is good though, no getting tossed all over the place, in the wind anymore. Used the local church parking lot, fresh asphalt, take off was a sight to see. Off the ground in less then 50 feet, wheels up and away she went. Had to waive off the first landing attempt on the parking lot, was more of a touch and go when I realized how fast she was coming in, and how short the parking lot seemed to be. Not to worry, I used the driveway, quarter mile long and nice and smooth, and I used a bunch of it to get slowed down enough. Though even that looked cool as I ended up near the parking area, so it looked like a regular bird rolling off the runway and onto the tarmac of the flying field, just bumped the throttle and taxied back to the hanger. Going to need a bigger landing strip. :eek: LOL

3 Pics. #1 that is a 10x8 on the 16x10. #2 Some idea of size. #3 The esc mount.

Glacier Girl
07-24-2006, 03:08 PM
Well, MotoCalc is not going to be a lot of help.
Playing around with different props and pack sizes, up to 7 cells.
Here's an example. dual motors/props/esc's. With a 13x13x3 blade on 6 cells, 90.8 ams, 114.1 thrust, 54.8 prop speed
Jump to a 7 cell pack and here's what it comes up with, all other specs the same. 32.8 amps, 37.5 thrust, 31.4 prop speed. Huh?
And just to be funny, it goes on to say it would make a good trainer for light winds, but would need an experienced pilot as it would fly fast and handle heavy winds, and would be able to hover, at over 12 pounds weight.
WOW, now we're talking about magic smoke, there must be a ton of it in this bird.

Grasshopper
07-24-2006, 04:06 PM
Well, MotoCalc is not going to be a lot of help.
Playing around with different props and pack sizes, up to 7 cells.
Here's an example. dual motors/props/esc's. With a 13x13x3 blade on 6 cells, 90.8 ams, 114.1 thrust, 54.8 prop speed
Jump to a 7 cell pack and here's what it comes up with, all other specs the same. 32.8 amps, 37.5 thrust, 31.4 prop speed. Huh?
And just to be funny, it goes on to say it would make a good trainer for light winds, but would need an experienced pilot as it would fly fast and handle heavy winds, and would be able to hover, at over 12 pounds weight.
WOW, now we're talking about magic smoke, there must be a ton of it in this bird.

That's going to be one really cool P-38. I sure hope we get to see video. Especially when you're doing 3D stuff with it.

Lookin good Brad!

Glacier Girl
07-26-2006, 05:13 PM
Ok I'm going to stick to a 6s set up. I have eight (8) 3s3700 20c packs coming. Will rig up in each boom 4 of these, cross wired into series and paralleled packs of 6s2p, both sides will also be paralleled together so I'll be pulling off a total of somewhere around 300 amps at 20C capability. I'm shooting for around 50 amps on each motor, so 100 amps total on a supposed 300 amp system should be ok..........right?

Ok to anyone who's still adding up figures, 8 packs, 2 UBEC's, and 6 sets of connectors, $1275.00.

SCALEFAN
07-26-2006, 11:11 PM
Brad,

Too many wires, too much money, might be somwhat of an overkill. This bird is not gold, and you have lots of other birds, why put so much $$$$ in one CMP plane, only to park it after the first flight. But if you want to do it, I, for one, am all eyes.

Wow, that must be the accountant talking.

Al

Glacier Girl
07-27-2006, 12:00 PM
Al, the packs are all 3 cell units that can be used in other birds. The connectors handle all the series/parallel wiring via a circuit board so no xtra wires there, packs plug into the the circuit boards. Only extra wires will be the two to tie the sides together.
I too, don't like the idea of building a one time only pack or bird.
I did have a another reason for going with the 3 cell versions, they are a little heavier then the TP 3S2100's I use in a lot of my birds, but almost all of them required the addition of nose weight to balance them out, going with a slightly heavier battery means I can dump the nose weight, still balance out, and gain extra flight time. See, I sometimes do think ahead. LOL I learned a while ago not to buy or build a specific pack for a bird, like you said it's not economical, I'll combine packs that can work in one bird and can be split apart to run other ones. Slated for the next two builds are an E-flite P47 and Cub, the P47 will use a single pack and not need the nose weight I had to install in the first one I built, the Cub which needs a 3S4200 pack, will get two paralleled packs to run it. There is some method to my madness.
Any how back to the P38, last night I went in and revamped the entire nose gear set up, I just had a funny feeling about the 1/4" liteply I was using. On inspection it's only a 3 ply board, and it felt soft to me when I tried to twist or bend it. So I picked up 2 sheets of 1/8" liteply and bonded them together last night to make up a new 1/4" plank, but on this one I turned one of the boards 90 degrees to the other, so that I have grain running 2 different directions, this gave me a stonger platform to work with. It's strong fore and aft and side to side, unlike the first one that would twist fairly easily. Something I picked up in woodworking, using wood's strength and weaknesses to my advantage. Same with the bracing in the upper formers, I used 1/16" liteply making sure to run the 3 ply boards so I had 2 of the plys running with the grains vertical to the load. It's stronger then going the other way. If you know anything about wood it's stronger vertically then horizontally. Hit a board on it's side with a hammer and it will crush easily, give it the same wack on the end and it will hardly dent. Similar thing with grain in a wood, if you are spaning across two points, run the grain of the wood horizontally, it will flex slightly but has less chance of shearing off, Using liteply vs a single piece of thin stock gives you strength in 2 directions, as it can fight stress in multiple directions. And you need to see how many pieces make up your liteply, will tell you which way it will be stronger of the two strengths it has. Sorry about the wood lesson, but I like to explain why I do things, and hopefully it will help someone out in the future. And yes mine may come out a little heavier then someone else's, but I'm sure mine will handle getting pounded on rough grass landings a lot better. I try and build longevity in my birds. Sure anyone can throw one together and it should fly, but for how long and how will it hold up to not so perfect landings and such. I used my 52" version as a guinie pig, so to speak. The wood build up I installed in it to suppert the retracts is holding up well. Not that I can say the same for the retracts. I've already replaced the nose gear with one that's rated at twice the weight of the bird as the first one couldn't hold up to grass, and now I'm seeing all kinds of play in the mains as they too are not up to the task. Won't be long before they give up and fold. But my mounts are doing just fine.;)

SCALEFAN
07-27-2006, 05:49 PM
Brad,

I believe in a prior post you talked about being a furniture maker, it shows..LOL

I'm an accountant, won't say how good an accountant. I might be a lazy accountant, I don't want to spend the time switching battery packs and thinking about what goes where. However, when I look at all the planes stacked up in my custom made sprinkler pipe racks, and the (9) 60 size outdated nitro helis swinging on a custom made shelf, I can't help but think that I'm lucky that my clients do what I say, and they don't know what I do.

I went on a trip with one of my clients in our motorhomes. After 600 miles we filled out tanks with diesel fuel, took the exact number of gallons as me and we started out full. Jim told me he got 8 miles per gallon, my computation resulted in me getting 12 miles per gallon. When I told Jim about my 12 miles per gallon, he suggested that perhaps he should find a new accountant. LOL

My advice to you, stop screwing around with the plywood, the weak link is not the supporting wood for the gear. All these planes are made up of balsa and lite ply. One nose over and most are not worth fixing. I'm laughing pretty hard while typing this, as I should be working on something that is billable. Anyway, I hope you see the humor, please keep on working and making daily updates. Don't let yourself get bogged down with the small stuff, you have 15 hours to finish or you're going to get docked. LOL

Al

Grasshopper
07-27-2006, 05:57 PM
Don't take this personally, but I didn't think accounting and engineering mixed. I have an engineering background and my wife is an accountant. We are always teasing each other about our professions. I have told her that an accountant is just an engineer without a personality. Of course she sees it reversed. Who knows which way is right?

ForestCam
07-27-2006, 06:32 PM
Measure with yardstick, mark with chalk and cut with axe. :D

SCALEFAN
07-27-2006, 09:12 PM
Grasshopper,

C'mon, we know it is reversed. Engineers don't have much of a personality. That is except you, you are still married so you must have a good personality. LOL.... Write this on the blackboard 100 times, "yes dear let's do it, I won't use algebra, calc. or geometry first". Then, swear to obey it.

Al

Glacier Girl
07-28-2006, 11:20 AM
Ok,Ok, I do tend to go a little in depth, I guess I would have been a good woodshop teacher. I like teaching and seeing the light bulb click on, when it finally makes sense to someone. Even more is seeing the light bulb I lit, lighting other ones.

After this weekend, it will be more, servos installed, rest of retracts done, finished up electronics. I'll just go over the high lights.
Now have to go figure out how to get a stuck collet off one of the motors, with out boogering everything up.

ForestCam
07-28-2006, 06:32 PM
Ok,Ok, I do tend to go a little in depth, I guess I would have been a good woodshop teacher. I like teaching and seeing the light bulb click on, when it finally makes sense to someone. Even more is seeing the light bulb I lit, lighting other ones.


Woodshop teachers are required to be missing at least one finger, it's a union rule or something.:p

Glacier Girl
07-31-2006, 02:30 PM
Status report, all servos are in and hooked up, same with receivers, still waiting for the Ubec's to arrive. Packs arrived and I got all the leads installed on them. I settled on eight (8) 3S3700 20 C packs. They are 4 to a side, wired in parallel and serial and cross parallel wired to each side.
Used series/parallel connectors from Hobby Lobby, so extra wiring was almost non existant. Spent almost all day Sunday soldering up the connectors and leads. Is nice, all packs use Deans Ultra connectors and plug right into the boards. Me like, I now have to mount the boards in the front of the booms, so all I have to do is plug in the packs when it's time to fly.
So that works out to 22.2 volts, and 14800 mah, or around 300 amps on the 20C capabilites. Since I plan on staying around 50 amps per motor, should be good there.

thunder1
07-31-2006, 09:55 PM
Sounds like you've got plenty of power. What's the expected RTF weight? The manufacturer suggests 12 lbs. But that sounds light for a 90" model. At 12 lbs the wing loading is also ridiculously low, around 25 oz/sqft. I'd be happy with a wing loading in the low 40oz/sqft. Anything lighter than that will be a floater.

This model has a half set of flaps (outboard), right? It would be nice to modify the wing so the inboard flaps work.

Glacier Girl
08-01-2006, 12:49 PM
Good question. If it's anything like the 52" version I built, it came out at exactly 4 pounds, right where the specs said it sould be, and it had air retracts added.
Inboard flaps.........Hmmmm.
Maybe later, I'll give it a go stock first.

hcm1955
08-03-2006, 08:43 PM
Hi I am new to the group. Is there a control line version of a P38 available?

Thanks,
Bert Murray
Ellicott City, MD

feathermerchant
08-06-2006, 07:56 PM
Don't know of one available now but you could take an RC odel and convert it easy enough.
I have a Sterling P-38 that is profile and has 2 OS 15's on it. Flies pretty fast.

K CLOSE
08-08-2006, 05:57 AM
GG, So far a great read. (You just couldn't resist the big one huh?) I trust the maiden will go well, and look forward to your posts. In the meantime, I think there may be a new build in my future, gonna have free up some hanger space. Anybody want to buy a pre-A 356 motor, I'm gonna need the room (and the cash):D

Crash Test Dummy
08-08-2006, 06:40 AM
GG,

Ditto to what K Close said. Cant wait to see this one. As always, keep up the good work!!

CTD

Glacier Girl
08-08-2006, 11:48 AM
Sorry for not much in the way of progress reports. Here's some shots of the retracts. Darn nose gear set up took so much time to get it right, I could have built a couple of regular ARF's in the same time. But it's in and works great. Uses a pull/ pull steering system, and getting the cables to bend correctly when the retracts folded, without pinching or getting tangled up was a bear. Very, very heavy duty. One thing I found on the 52" version is the nose gear takes a pounding on grass. This one should hold up fine.
As for the mains in the booms. I went with a simple box arraingment, suggested by one of the guru's over on the gas side of RCU. Involved removal of the servo trays and shorting them back to the former and building a box in front of the former to support the retract. Will use two 1/8" planks on top of the box, one epoxied to the formers to tie it all together, and a second one that screws to the first plate so retract can be accessed if need be. Gear positioning will be slightly off on mine as I went with the biggest wheels I could fit. If I had a nice smooth runway I could have gone stock size, but until my strip is completed I'll be using grass.
Anyhow, I had to move the wheels back slightly, in the retracted position, so that they would fold up and not cut through the wing bolt mounting plate and up into the wing. Only difference will be a little taller stance on the ground. In the air you'll never know. Plates are installed and I'll get you some shots of the cutting and bracing required to make the gear clear the fuselage. Other then that all I have left to do is install a couple of plates for the packs to sit on and install some straps to hold them.
Ok well maybe one more thing. Stripping all back out and repainting her and installing the decals. Then she's ready to rip.;)

Glacier Girl
08-08-2006, 02:34 PM
Couple of additional shots. #1 is how the servo tray looks before it modded. #2 shows how stock gear location would involve a lot of re- engineering of the boom to make it work.

SCALEFAN
08-08-2006, 05:07 PM
Brad,

You sure are making it much easier for future hobbiests. As you continue on with this project please think about how you would organize a summary at the end, including the pictures. You could then go back and modify the first post with a link to the summary. That way future builders would really be able to save time with this project. No sense in letting your engineering and construction talents go to waste, as you are a teacher. This thread will certainly go on, however, we have interupted your build sequence and anyone reading from the start may not get every important consideration. Mainly me, I get a headache from reading, I get a big headache from reading what I write....LOL

Al

Glacier Girl
08-08-2006, 08:04 PM
Al,
Ok just for you.
You're right I'm kinda jumping around on the build as parts show up, so yeah your idea would make a lot lof sense.
Speaking of which, how would you do it? What I mean, do you have a sequence you follow when building, like motors first, then servos, followed by what ever else follows.
You're lucky I didn't write up all that was involved in getting the nose gear to work. LOL

SCALEFAN
08-08-2006, 09:46 PM
OK Brad, I bit the bait...LOL

I first would open the box and check out the contents, brouse through the manual to see how complete it was. I would be looking for obvious problems. I would hope that I wouldn't find the word "fabricate" or "trim" anywhere in the manual. Knowing in advance that the model did not include the retract mechanism, I would note this as a mental problem if I wanted retracts. Motors,electrical and props come last after I can see what space is left, and think about cooling.

Construction,

I would do the easiest things first, the things that would enable me throw out the box. The things that are standard in every model, install wing servos, install fuse servos, install the both the vertical and horizontal stab, join the wing halves. While accomplishing these menial tasks, I would also be thinking (day dreaming) about the items that need special attention, retracts, battery placement, wires, choice of batteries and power. I would leave for last the items that need special attention, and modification. Too many times I have modified something in advance, only to change my mind later on in the construction cycle. Usually the answers to the tough problems come while in the bathroom or driving a long distance. Basically, when stepping back from the project.

OK enough of the bull, I am getting a headache reading what I typed.

You are following the procedure that I mentioned above, so, recount your process, the decisions, the pictures, in the order that you accomplished them. Only do it without explanation, just the end decision. The explantions and discussions for decision making comes within the body of the ongoing thread, not the summary at the end.

Every hobbiest makes decisions that enable every project to have a personal touch, none are exactly the same. You don't have to explain your decision making when authoring a summary. Nobody is going to do it exactly the same, but, they can learn by reading your decisions.

Ie. I mounted the retracts with 1/4 inch wood blocks under the flange to avoid the mechanism rubbing. (picture)

Someone else may see what you did and come up with what they think is a better way. Me, I would just trim away the part that it was rubbing. (fast and dirty, that's me, no time to be extra fussy. The plane is not an art object or master piece, it is a flying object. The first time in the bushes won't make me heart broken, sh#t happens).

Al

Glacier Girl
08-09-2006, 02:38 PM
Al, Got it. The Reader's Digest version. I can do that.

SCALEFAN
08-13-2006, 09:49 PM
Brad,

Where are you in the project? We are all eyes and ears.

Al

Glacier Girl
08-14-2006, 11:46 AM
Dissasembly for paint. Boy is this thing big when it's put together.LOL
2 pics. #1 is finished boom, with all installed. Large piece of wood with 2 nylon bolts is a brace I installed to keep the booms from twisting the horizontal stabilizer when the wing is off. Talk about a tight squeeze, the gear just fits between the servos when it's retracted.
#2 is the spaggetti of wires on one wing half. And you'll see why it needs repainted. Piss poor factory paint job.

I'll post some shots of finished bird as soon as I get it done.

SCALEFAN
08-14-2006, 05:09 PM
Brad,

Thanks for the update.

Yes, the paint looks like different shades, however, remember that once these babies hit operating status they looked pretty ratty. Once in the bushes, and well, who knows what a RC plane will look like. LOL

Al

Crash Test Dummy
08-14-2006, 05:11 PM
Brad looks like you are almost there!!! I can't wait to see this twin tailed devil in the air!! Good luck. Are you going with the stock colors?

CTD

Glacier Girl
08-14-2006, 05:15 PM
Al,
I want a pretty girl for photos. As in WOW that's a "pretty" big hole there"
So it will be all one shade, of green and gray, kinda like it just rolled out of the factory.

Yeah I know a few battle scars will make it look like a flyer. Heck my silver one is permanently stained green on the gondola, and LE's from flying off the grass. Luckily no tree magnets yet.

SCALEFAN
08-15-2006, 02:58 PM
Brad,

If you have time would you take a look at my post 85 in the following link to RCGroups.com, conversion forum, A26.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533302&page=6&pp=15

As I have been watching your progress on the P38 I have been working on a VQ A26 bomber at the same time. It appears that the specs. are very close with these planes. The maximum prop that can go on the A26 is 11 inches.

Do you think I am climbing the right tree with the Axi 4120/18 motors and 10X7 three bladed props? If so, the same would work for the P38.

Al

Glacier Girl
08-22-2006, 11:34 AM
AL,
Sorry was in Florida.
According to M/C would be a sweet set up. Only pulling around 19 amps per motor. Ton's of thrust and decent speed. On 6S power.
The A26 must have the booms a lot closer then the P38, Here's a pic I took before disasembling mine. Those are 16x10's on there, and there is 2 3/4" of clearance. I'm going to run 12x8's on mine for flights and use the bigger ones for display.

SCALEFAN
08-22-2006, 01:27 PM
Brad,

Thanks for response. I opted for 11X8 three blades, 26 amps, 500 watts. The engine nacelles are close to the fuse, the A26 could fly on one engine without adverse yaw.

I bought batteries from AARCHOBBY in Hong Kong, what a bargain. If I remember correctly, I used your link.

Keep on posting, we look forward to reading about your progress. If you do a summary at the end, great, but, your lessons along the way are very valuable.

Al

Glacier Girl
08-27-2006, 06:15 PM
Well she's all wrapped up and ready to maiden.
So what do you think?
Takes approx ten minutes from van to ready to rock.
4 screws on each turbo cover, 2 bolts on each wing, slide the packs in, and hook up the servo leads/parallel connector/air line. :D

firemanbill
08-27-2006, 06:26 PM
Absolutely Beautiful! You have got to get some video of this flying!

Grasshopper
08-27-2006, 06:45 PM
WOW! What a great looking plane Brad. Can't wait to hear about the maiden and hopefully see some videos.

jipp
08-27-2006, 09:20 PM
great looking bird. :)

chris.

Glacier Girl
08-28-2006, 07:05 PM
Hopefully this weekend. Will have vid, good or bad.

Grasshopper
08-28-2006, 08:17 PM
Hopefully this weekend. Will have vid, good or bad.


We'll keep our fingers crossed. It will all be good!

firemanbill
08-28-2006, 08:18 PM
Oh it will be good! (Think good thoughts). Just remember to breathe on the maiden and you'll be fine! (I always seem to forget that part:o )

I am looking forward to seeing it!

Glacier Girl
08-29-2006, 12:51 PM
Well it appears it's going to be a show if the weather co-operates, dang hurricane. A lot of my bud's from RCU have decided the holiday weekend is a good time for a meet and great, with my house being home base for flight services. Will be nice to finally meet a lot of the folks I've been posting with for the last couple of years. Fly planes, pig out, build a bon fire. Good times. Lots of vids to come.

firemanbill
08-29-2006, 01:04 PM
Sounds cool. Where are you? We are expecting weather from this storm as well.

Glacier Girl
08-29-2006, 07:24 PM
Just east of Pittsburgh Pa, Ligonier.

firemanbill
08-29-2006, 08:13 PM
yup, you are right in the way then... I guess we'll all be getting wet later this week!

Glacier Girl
09-05-2006, 02:38 PM
Well maiden was a wash out. When I finally got some clear weather on Sunday, an elecrical gremlin popped up. Left motor would only spin up to 1/3 throttle and pulse, and would not shut off.. After a lot of looking and guessing, and switching stuff around, found could get motor to go wide open if esc was plugged directly into the rx vs on a "Y" lead, but still would not shut down intermittently.
Since a lot of folks had traveled quite a distance to see her go, I decided to give it a whirl. Ran last check of all controls to be sure all was going in the right direction, and started advancing the throttle. Motors spooled up and props were screaming, man those APC's are loud. She rolled forward and both rear wheels went from toed in to toed out. To the point it was dragging both rear wheels down the strip.:mad: Aborted it right there, as I was afraid of ripping loose the gear. Post inspection found the the scissors on the struts had all kinds of side to side play, and were letting the lower strut pivot all over the place. Well it's obvious she has guts, as at half throttle she was dragging both rear wheels down the strip. And no other damage so I guess I'm ok with it.
Well contacted Tomas at VQ about it and low and behold he got back to me on Labor day. He's offered to replace the struts with bigger units that he guarantees will not give. FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

So While I await the new struts, and chase down the gremlin some more with a new esc and rx, she will await another day to take off.

Would have been/ will be a sight. As one bud has a Hanger 9 Mustang converted over to electric, and it's a close scale to the P38, so we were/are going to get them both up for some vids of that.
Going to be pretty. Pair of big old war birds screaming past down in the weeds, followed by a zoom up into victory rolls.

feathermerchant
09-05-2006, 11:03 PM
Where did you find the 3 blade 16X10's?

Glacier Girl
09-06-2006, 01:37 PM
Feathermerchant.
16x10x3's are MAS, both tractor and pusher style.

feathermerchant
09-06-2006, 02:25 PM
Cool I need an 18X10 or 19X10
But they stop at 16X10

Glacier Girl
09-18-2006, 12:54 PM
Update, new struts should be here today, have replaced the rx and esc on the troublesome left boom, and installed bolt on prop adapters.
And I had sent my tx back to Futaba to have the memory looked at. Well they called back and said the memory was the least of my troubles. Seems the antenna connection on the pc board was a cold joint and making poor connection, and both the sticks were not, ummm inputting commands at times. So, cheaper to replace then fix, so I have a new 7C on the way. Until it arrives I pretty much grounded, I only have my Predator set up on the Spektrum radio I have.
Further details as they happen.

frankenjet
10-04-2006, 03:53 AM
Hi Glacier Girl,

Nice job on your latest build, she looks sweet and cannot wait for the flight report and video ?

I'm sorry to be a bit off topic but I'm interested in building the 52 " version and am looking for input. Did you run a build thred on this one ?Just looking around to see what is out there and what the good set ups are, Im looking for either full balsa or balsa and glass version.

Thanks

Steve

thunder1
10-18-2006, 07:17 PM
Any news about this model? I'm stoked to hear how it flew.

Glacier Girl
10-18-2006, 08:18 PM
Steve, you won't be disapointed with the 52" version. there are several builds on it, here, on RCU, and RCG. Word of advice though, buy it from AK Models instead of NitroModels or Raidentech, AK has much better customer service.

Thunder, sorry no too many things going on, haven't had time or help available to get her done. I'm already second guessing the motors and have some bigger units coming, that way I can spin the 16x10x3's, instead of the 12x8x2's I was running.

Glacier Girl
11-10-2006, 09:26 PM
Update. New motors are in and installed. HXT63-64B's. 280 kv's per the tag on the motors. Big Muthers. 22.22 oz each. On 6S2P packs, pulling 51.6 amps spinning 15.75 x 13 x 3 apc props. On improvised test stand these set ups are pushing nearly 9 pounds of thrust each. Have to get everything reprogrammed in the new Tx, and maybe , just maybe weather will co-operate and let me get one flight in before winter.

afineman
11-11-2006, 12:48 AM
GG

As stated before, if you maiden it, I will come and do the video.

This is a bird worthy of a trip to catch the maiden.

Brent

thunder1
11-11-2006, 04:58 AM
Have you tached the motors yet? 6s on a 280 Kv motor doesn't give much pitch speed. You do have a lot of pitch so maybe that will help. I'd want at least 70 MPH pitch speed = ~3x stall speed.

Glacier Girl
11-12-2006, 01:33 AM
Thunder, No have not tached it. But one of my co-horts using a program from afineman, has hit the actual other specs almost dead on the head. Per this calc program prop speed is just a hair under 70.

Ron
11-14-2006, 12:53 AM
really anxious to see how this one flies...I'd like to do it too...
according to my rough calc's pitch speed is about 62 mph.....which is over 2.5 times stall speed, which in my experience is plenty for nice safe flying, as long as you have lots of thrust...say 75 to 80% of model weight.
i emailed nitro about the model, but have not heard back yet.
how's your all up weight? anywhere close to the advertised??

PerlAddict
11-30-2007, 04:00 PM
Why was there never an update to this thread? Make with the pretty videos, Brad! :D

Glacier Girl
12-03-2007, 05:40 PM
Why was there never an update to this thread? Make with the pretty videos, Brad! :D


Cause I gave it away. :blah:

Ron
12-03-2007, 06:50 PM
WHAT ? ? ? no P38 in your hangar??

Glacier Girl
12-05-2007, 12:38 PM
Me with out a P38?????? Are you crazy??????:eek:

Have the E-Flite version built, and the big old VQ 83" that I have to finish building. I've given away my NP 52" and 90" versions, and my EMI "Yippee" ones.

Ron
12-05-2007, 06:23 PM
Did you ever get the 90" one flying??

Glacier Girl
12-05-2007, 08:47 PM
Ron, myself no, I gave it away. I tend to get bored with planes after I build them. My bud in VA has it now, not sure if he's flown it or not.

I have the VQ 83" version I'm building now. Let me rephrase that. I started it, ran into an ugly mfg problem and it's been sitting in the box.
Soon as I finish up the Corsair I'm doing now, (CMP 120 scale) I'll get back to it.

No rush on this one as once it's done, I'm sending it off to be aluminum plated. No tape, no paint, real aluminum. Aluminum co. will also add all lines and rivet details after it's been plated.

Will look like a fresh from the factory bird.

frankenjet
12-28-2007, 03:51 AM
Ron, myself no, I gave it away. I tend to get bored with planes after I build them. My bud in VA has it now, not sure if he's flown it or not.

I have the VQ 83" version I'm building now. Let me rephrase that. I started it, ran into an ugly mfg problem and it's been sitting in the box.
Soon as I finish up the Corsair I'm doing now, (CMP 120 scale) I'll get back to it.

No rush on this one as once it's done, I'm sending it off to be aluminum plated. No tape, no paint, real aluminum. Aluminum co. will also add all lines and rivet details after it's been plated.

Will look like a fresh from the factory bird.

Thanks for the update. Please keep this going as I want to build a larger scale p-38 and cannot decide which one. I almost went for the np version but it looked just too square. Good luck witrh the vq, what was the issue with it ?

Steve

Glacier Girl
12-28-2007, 12:50 PM
Steve, The VQ had a gondola problem. And mine wasn't alone in this. Factory decided to use silicone sealer instead of epoxy to attach all the formers to the fiberglass hull. The "silly cone" didn't stick to the wood or the fiberglass. Mine imploded on first rotation of the nose retract. My friend Al's made it to the taxi way before his gave up the ghost. He threw his in the trash, I contacted Tomas at VQ and he got me a replacement gondola. He's always been good to me, excellent person to do business with. But anyhow the problem with the gondola gave me a serious case of the "what ifs?", as in what if the rest of the bird was put together like this?

I'm wrapping up the Corsair now, then I'll be stripping the P38 just so I can be sure the rest was done right.

Ummm, looks aside, especially if this is your first twin and definitely if it's your first P38, I'd really look at the N/P version as a first time venture. Heck of a lot less money to start out with, and a lot easier to fly. From another of my chums, Mike, who still has the N/P version, it flies very nicely, unlike the VQ which tends to fly like a real P38.

The N/P tends to be a more stable airframe, the VQ being more scale is not, it flies like a fighter, and it will not fly slow.

Marseille#14
03-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Ok for anyone who's keeping score.
Prices so far.
Bird - $250.00
Retracts/struts - $285.00, less then what I have in the 52" version.:mad:
Servos - $370.00
Spinners - $16.00
Esc's - $235.00
Rx/crystals - $135.00
Motors - $100.00
Rolls of battery wire - $65.00
That's oh somewhere around $1400.00 so far.

Still have to add wheels and possibly brakes. Somewhere around $350.00
Props, what maybe $40.00
Misc hardware/wires/wood/etc. - $150.00
Packs???? I'm guessing in the $600.00 range per side.
So I'm up to around $3200.00 ready to go.:eek:


$3200 is for the 92" P38 Im right??

I just want to know where I can buy this P 38 and how much would only the bird would cost without electronic and motor!

thanks

Glacier Girl
03-13-2008, 04:49 PM
$3200 is for the 92" P38 Im right??

I just want to know where I can buy this P 38 and how much would only the bird would cost without electronic and motor!

thanks

Marseille, I bought mine from www.nitroplanes.com (http://www.nitroplanes.com) , was somewhere around $249.00 for it.

I'm almost to the point of wanting mine back. My VQ is causing me to pull my hair out. After the gondola problem, so far I've found 4 of the mounts for the Fowler flap bellcranks were never glued in. So I spent around 2 hours regluing everything I could reach with a syringe and some CA. The fiberglass supercharger covers fit so poorly I ended up cracking them (on purpose) and reglassing them so they conformed better to the wing and fuselages. I've also had to rework the gondola top/cockpit area as it didn't fit worth a darn either.

This I would have expected for the price of the Nitro version, but not from one at 3 times the price. :blah:

Marseille#14
03-13-2008, 09:23 PM
Marseille, I bought mine from www.nitroplanes.com (http://www.nitroplanes.com) , was somewhere around $249.00 for it.

I'm almost to the point of wanting mine back. My VQ is causing me to pull my hair out. After the gondola problem, so far I've found 4 of the mounts for the Fowler flap bellcranks were never glued in. So I spent around 2 hours regluing everything I could reach with a syringe and some CA. The fiberglass supercharger covers fit so poorly I ended up cracking them (on purpose) and reglassing them so they conformed better to the wing and fuselages. I've also had to rework the gondola top/cockpit area as it didn't fit worth a darn either.

This I would have expected for the price of the Nitro version, but not from one at 3 times the price. :blah:

Thanks for your answer!

So which P-38 model with that size could you recommend me??
I only want the plane without electronic! (all inclusive)
I live in Europe so the shipping from US isnt cheap but if its a top quality I would love to get it! Also Im looking for a P-51 or P-61!

Hanners
02-09-2011, 05:08 AM
Hello, what a stroke of luck. I'm building the very same P38 as you are. I'm also seriously thinking of making it electric.
I've been looking around for retracts for it, I read that you got a set from Spring Air, can you tell me what modle number you are going to use?
Retracts is bacicly my hold up point right now. Have the modle painted, but been trying to figure out what retracts to use.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Hanners

Glacier Girl
02-10-2011, 10:18 PM
Hanners, Honestly that was so long ago I really don't remember which ones I had.

My new one, yeah I bought another, is going to have the E-flite units.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLG430#quickSpecs

Less of a hassle and I've heard a lot of good things about em.

Hanners
02-11-2011, 01:28 PM
Thanks for getting back to me with the retract info.

angel710
02-16-2011, 06:53 AM
I have been searching for a website like this in the field I am interested in. I am a big fan. I was thinking about creating my own blog about similar ideas for like-minded people. Some good ideas here. Thanks, I can only hope mine turns out as good as this one

Glacier Girl
02-17-2011, 03:50 AM
angel, here's a great site of mods done to the 38.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6913969/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm