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E-Challenged
08-27-2005, 04:08 PM
A friend bought GWS Corsair and P51 kits unpainted, no motor/geardrive for $25. I may do the same for bashing purposes. I would want to use brushless motors/geardrives and small 3-cell Lipos. It should be fairly easy to custom paint and/or modify these kits into unlimited Reno racers, etc. with little investment in time and effort. The ugly buggy wheels can be replaced by light scale-like foam wheels or leave the gear off if you land in grass. These and the more expensive Alpha arfs from Hobby Lobby look great, hand launch easily or ROG and fly well.:)

zwibelturm
08-28-2005, 07:50 PM
I have sereral foam aircraft and the finish on some of the coolest planes kinda sucks. Anyone know how to smooth out those little beads? I've tried model majic and DAP lightweight spakle from out of the jar to diluted to watery and I'm still struggling. Any ideas?
John Harper (zwibelturm, spiralling tower)

E-Challenged
08-29-2005, 03:29 PM
I am new to working on foam model finishes. There is quite a lot of information on this subject other forums under park flyer and scale model threads.

RickAvery
08-29-2005, 04:38 PM
I've put together a GWS slope kit P-51. Here's what I did to get a decient finish. I used the light weight spackel but I didn't dilute it. I found it eaiser to just rub it into the beaded foam surface with my fingers. Then sand with #220 paper when dried. Then brush a thin coat of water based polyurathane. Sand with #220 when dried then repeat with another coat of WBPU and sand once more. Then paint with your favorite paint. I've been using short cuts & Krylon H2O. Does it take ALL of the rough foam out? No. But it gets 80 or 90% of it smooth. The trick is to seal the spackel and foam with the WBPU so it takes the finish coat evenly. I'd post some pictures but the Mods haven't got the auto re-sizing feature up yet. Any attempte to re-size my pics end up in a grainy POS. Mods, are you listening? Good luck with your GWS models. With the correct power plant they fly great.
Rick

flypaper 2
08-29-2005, 05:25 PM
Bashing a GWS 400 Moth into a supermoth after I piled in my last one when an elevator servo took a dump:p Bought the slope version. Shortening the wing, Changing the airfoil a bit for better stall characteristics. Shortening the fuse by a couple of ins. Flying and landing wires made from dental floss as on my last one. Good plane to hack as you can make it as mild or wild as you want.:D Will put up pics when I get it done and before I fly it.;) Just in case.

Twmaster
09-01-2005, 02:47 AM
Here's a quote from this thread: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118

"One interesting thing that I am doing, which so far is looking great, is a technique I learned in a Quiet Flyer magazine. After filling the molding holes and seem lines with white balsa-rite spackling, I thinned it with water till it was the consistancy of merenge. Once complete, I painted it on the foam with a brush and let it dry. After it was dry, sanded it about 90% off and was left with foam that now has all the little indentions and open areas between the foam beads filled. The plane is now silky smooth, you wouldn't even know it was foam!!!"

Sounds like something I am going to try on my ME163.

--
Mike N

John.G
09-08-2005, 04:10 AM
I just ordered my 6 gws slope kit(corsair) and this time I'm going to do one of the racer ones maybe the goodyear one with the bubble canopy and red & white paint.And as always brushless but which one,its going to be Himax but not sure of the one to use.John

E-Challenged
09-08-2005, 09:46 PM
There's a glut of info on E-Zone under Vendors, GWS about building and improving on GWS foamy kits. You have to scroll way down the index of Discussion forums.

Here are some of the improvement things I learned about the Zero for what it is worth:

1. Recent Zero kits have about 3.5 degrees positive wing incidence. This needs to be reduced to near zero degrees for axial rolls and best inverted flying with increased brushless power. If you put a 1/8 spacer between wing saddle and wing, about ond inch back from leading edged, this shows what incidence should be so that plane does not climb excessively with full throttle on higher than stock power. I plan to reshape the wing saddle to accomplish this as I will use my MiniAC1215/16 geared brushless on 9x7 or 10X8 props for power. If you use stock brushed motor and NiMh packs as recommended , incidence does not need modification as much but be sure you are not tail heavy.

2. I also plan to tweak the motor mount stick slot to get noticeable down and right thrust.

2. Landing gear wire should be stiffer than stock and wheels should be 1.5 to 2.5 " diameter. Use a large 1/8" ply plate with 1/16" strips to trap the gear wire. Use nylon gear straps and small wood screws to hold gear wire . Epoxy a 1/4 square hardwood piece to the end of the ply plate. The hole for the gear wire should go though the plate and 1/4" piece. Make landing gear legs long enough so that a 10" prop won't strike the runway during level take-off and landing. The tail wheel leg should also be long enough so that plane doesn't sit at an extremely nose high angle. The tail wheel wire pivot point tends to loosen in the foam. A small piece of 1/6 ply for the plastic thingy to glue into would be a good idea too.

If you plan to omit the gear, consider covering wing bottom and bottom of fuselage with light glass cloth and epoxy.

3. I will coat only the wing tip bottoms with fine fiberglass cloth and epoxy to protect them from scrapes

4. It wouldn't hurt to strengthen the stabilizer by imbedding a piece of bamboo skewer using epoxy, accross the underside. Careful, avoid any excess weight in the rear fuselage tail area to prevent tail heaviness.

5. I cut and dremeled the battery pack area so that I could shove a 3S Polyquest 1100 lipo pack all the way forward, in case I need to, for proper balance.

6. Do main wheel landings using some power to avoid tip stall/crash problems, reduce throttle when you are on mains and give up elevator when it slows down to keep steerable tail wheel on ground.

dragon
09-17-2005, 07:54 AM
Hi,
I have several GWS planes and plan to finish them with a light tissue and water based polyurathane.

andre
09-22-2005, 08:47 PM
Hi All,

This page has a procedure for finishing foam with fiberglass, water-based polycrylic, and acrylic paints:

http://www.rc-airplane-advisor.com/scale-model-airplane-finish.html

Regards,
Andre

E-Challenged
11-04-2005, 03:38 PM
A Himax 2025-5300 coupled with a 2200mah 3S pack makes these models fly extremely fast. I watched a club member's Spitfire fly like a pylon plane with rolls and snaps that were a blur and high speed vertical like you wouldn't believe. A little too fast for my 67 year old eyesight and reflexes.
His plane had full wingspan carbon rod spar but was otherwise a stock slope version with landing gear. Great for a racing Corsair bash.:)

qban_flyer
11-04-2005, 04:50 PM
A little too fast for my 67 year old eyesight and reflexes.
His plane had full wingspan carbon rod spar but was otherwise a stock slope version with landing gear. Great for a racing Corsair bash.:)

Not only that, I'd be willing to bet the bolt that holds the wing down, and or the retainer in the foam fuselage is gonna let go when he least expects it.

Seen it happen to a GWS P-51 on a really sharp left turn WTO after a low pass. The wing flutterd to the ground, while the fuselage went to its demise like a rocket. Spectacular doesn't even begin to describe it!

These models are considered and classified by GWS as park flyers, not pylon racers. Granted that in their stock form with the supplied power plant they are marginal flying models at best, but asking of that fragile ariframe to go three to five times faster than what they were designed for is pushing the envelope bit.

E-Challenged
11-04-2005, 06:07 PM
Not only that, I'd be willing to bet the bolt that holds the wing down, and or the retainer in the foam fuselage is gonna let go when he least expects it.

Seen it happen to a GWS P-51 on a really sharp left turn WTO after a low pass. The wing flutterd to the ground, while the fuselage went to its demise like a rocket. Spectacular doesn't even begin to describe it!

These models are considered and classified by GWS as park flyers, not pylon racers. Granted that in their stock form with the supplied power plant they are marginal flying models at best, but asking of that fragile ariframe to go three to five times faster than what they were designed for is pushing the envelope bit.

Agreed, I'd want hard balsa ailerons, carbon fiber rod in stab, CF strips inside the fuselage past wing mount area, and 1/2 A aileron linkage fittings and wires to prevent oscillation of ailerons, and pinned hinges for control surfaces. Good idea to glass the plane with 1/2 ounce fiberglass and Minwax Polycrylic.

qban_flyer
11-05-2005, 12:14 AM
Agreed, I'd want hard balsa ailerons, carbon fiber rod in stab, CF strips inside the fuselage past wing mount area, and 1/2 A aileron linkage fittings and wires to prevent oscillation of ailerons, and pinned hinges for control surfaces. Good idea to glass the plane with 1/2 ounce fiberglass and Minwax Polycrylic.

Now, when you put it that way, that plane should survive almost anything thrown at it.

aethertek
11-25-2005, 03:02 AM
Good filler for smooth frames...Subterrain Foam Putty usually found in railroad stores.

Twmaster
11-25-2005, 03:40 AM
Those GWS warbirds are kind surprisingly tough. I punched an ME-109 in kinda hard and it is almost ready to fly again with little more than 30 minutes worth of work. Ask Qban what that looked like when it hit!

Twmaster
11-25-2005, 03:41 AM
Hi,
I have several GWS planes and plan to finish them with a light tissue and water based polyurathane.

A stronger covering would be either silkspan or very light =>.5 ounce fiberglass.

qban_flyer
11-25-2005, 04:43 AM
Those GWS warbirds are kind surprisingly tough. I punched an ME-109 in kinda hard and it is almost ready to fly again with little more than 30 minutes worth of work. Ask Qban what that looked like when it hit!
It went in at full bore, nose first. Dmage? Minimal. I thought TW would need a vacum cleaner to get all the foam off the ground. :eek:

Came back to the pit area with the entire fuse in one hand and the complete wing in the other one. All it did to the plane was to slightly bash in the nose and rip off the wing mounting bolt off the fuselage. :D

These GWS warbirds are really tough birds! (No pun intended)

Twmaster
11-25-2005, 05:13 AM
After got got up the hill I was fully expecting to pick up my radio gear out of a smear of foam. Truely shocked at the three, count 'em three pieces I brough back. One was the canopy which is held on by magnets. I'm going to tone the 109 down a hair with a 2 cell battery, 10x3.8 prop and 50% rates!

dragon
11-25-2005, 10:32 AM
A stronger covering would be either silkspan or very light =>.5 ounce fiberglass.

Yeah,
But I'm not doing it for strength just to get a better finish although I may fiberglass some too.:)

TLyttle
11-30-2005, 03:16 AM
Watch the weight if you are using tissue and poly! I used that method and it added quite a bit to the o/a weight. If it wasn't for the fact that motor changes are relatively easy, I wonder if it would fly at all (to date it is a hangar queen; come spring, I will find out if it was the right thing to do). Tissue covering stiffened the wing quite a lot (400% maybe? I tested it by covering one side, supported the tips and put a weight in the center;virtually no flex on the covered side. Advantage is more accurate aileron control), and improved the looks immeasurably IMHO.

Have a look...

qban_flyer
11-30-2005, 08:10 AM
Watch the weight if you are using tissue and poly! I used that method and it added quite a bit to the o/a weight. If it wasn't for the fact that motor changes are relatively easy, I wonder if it would fly at all (to date it is a hangar queen; come spring, I will find out if it was the right thing to do). Tissue covering stiffened the wing quite a lot (400% maybe? I tested it by covering one side, supported the tips and put a weight in the center;virtually no flex on the covered side. Advantage is more accurate aileron control), and improved the looks immeasurably IMHO.

Have a look...

That's a mighty fine looking P-51! What's its AUW? :confused:

TLyttle
12-02-2005, 02:35 AM
Hmmmm... I thought I replied to that, but I see no sign of it.

AUW it a couple ounces over advertised weight, but I'm hoping a cleaner airframe and other mods will help. I opened up the cooling intakes and made the cooling baffle operable (just below the canopy on the rad housing). I guess I will see in the spring: I refuse to fly outdoors in the winter (too old!).

E-Challenged
12-02-2005, 06:08 AM
My slope kit Zero came out to 18.5 ounces with geared MiniAC1215/16 in GWS 300C C ratio gearbox and 9x5 GWS SF Prop, Polyquest 1100mah 3S Lipo, some beef-up, reduced wing incidence, acrylic paint, and landing gear with scale foam wheels. Had to enlarge and open the front of the battery compartment so the Lipo pack can go up against the front of the cowl. I can take off in two feet, cruise and maneuver realistically at 1/2 throttle, go to 2/3 throttle and do unlimited loops, go vertical at full throttle, go over into an outside loop fly inverted and roll fairly axially. The plane lands lightly without damage and taxis prettily back. The Zero flies a lot like my Switchback 3D and like my .40 glow powered Dynaflite Fun Scale warbirds. My buddy's zero came out 1/2 ounce heavier due to spackle and nicer acrylic finish and flies about the same with a geared Himax 2015-4200. His barely flew with the stock GWS geared 350 and 8 650 mah NiMh cells at that weight. He has become a true believer in brushless and lipo power.:) Mine's the darker green one!

qban_flyer
12-02-2005, 01:37 PM
Hmmmm... I thought I replied to that, but I see no sign of it.

AUW it a couple ounces over advertised weight, but I'm hoping a cleaner airframe and other mods will help. I opened up the cooling intakes and made the cooling baffle operable (just below the canopy on the rad housing). I guess I will see in the spring: I refuse to fly outdoors in the winter (too old!).

I have a friend with a GWS model that thinks it's grossly overweight at 18.6 ounces. He refers to it as "a porker", yet the plane flies and flies as if nothing. It's just a bit faster, that's all. It also penetrates the wind unlike the rest at the field.

Like you, at 61 I won't go to the field unless the temps are above 55 degrees! :o

TLyttle
12-03-2005, 02:51 AM
Encouraging words, gban flyer, now I feel a bit better. "Golden years" is highly overrated!

qban_flyer
12-03-2005, 04:16 AM
Encouraging words, gban flyer, now I feel a bit better. "Golden years" is highly overrated!

I'd like to get my hands on the one that came up with that phrase so that I can wring his neck! :D

In my case, after two near fatal coronaries, mine feel more like "BROWN YEARS" than any other color, never mind Golden! :o

Rittenflyer
12-03-2005, 05:17 PM
I have a GWS P51 that needed a lot of nose weight to get the balance right. The GWS instructions show a CG that you can barely achieve with the recomended battery packs and even then it's not enough. After adding three fifty caliber lead balls underneath and a quarter inside the cowling it flew fine, although the stock 350 gearbox setup is only good for scale flight and mild aerobatics, just like many other models with brushed systems. I crashed this plane during landing on the first flight because of the balance problem-after a wild circuit of the field with the plane pitching all over the place-so I'd suggest starting very nose heavy for first flights. I crashed once more with the 350 motor system because I started an Immelman too close to the ground and held the upline a moment too long, no power left to pull out of trouble and a stall and spin resulted that I didn't recover from. I now have a BP12 outrunner, spinning an 8x4 prop and a Thunder Power 1320 3s lipo. This airplane now rocks! Big sweeping rolls, giant or tiny loops, and I can hang on the prop after a vertical line at a little over half throttle. I haven't really tried to hover it yet and it would take a lot of throttle but the point is that there's plenty of power to save your bacon when you mess up. I painted it with Createx AutoAir paints. These paints are water based automotive graphics paint, are non-toxic and most of the colors dry with a glossy finish. There are iridescents, flakes, chamelion colors, etc.

I also have a GWS B2 and it flew great from the beginning. No ROG from grass but hand launching was easier than I thought it would be and landing was very easy. It needs brushless motors to be really sporty and I'll eventually convert it. The cost will be higher on this model because it has two EDFs which means two motors and two brushless speed controllers.

Sean Rittenhouse

Twmaster
12-03-2005, 05:23 PM
It seems that the GWS planes (warbirds and Formosa) don't fly worth a spit on the stock gear. I had a Zero that was just awful on the stock 350 motor. Qban_flyer now has it and it is powered by something a bit hotter and now flies well. I also have a GWS ME-109 as mentioned earlier in this thread. With an Esskay 400XT, 3S lipo and 8x6 prop is is a missile!

Methinks that brushless is the only way to get the GWS warbirds to fly well at all.

Rittenflyer
12-03-2005, 05:38 PM
You're right, my P51 with a BP12 and 8x4 is great fun and will really maneuver but I recently saw the wings flex so far as I pulled out of a 90 degree dive, that I'm sure a few more ounces of pressure would have snapped them. Now I just pull out easier when it's really humming along. Oh, and I epoxied my wing to the fuselage; I'll cut a hole inside the battery compartment if I need to access the aileron servo.

Sean Rittenhouse

Twmaster
12-03-2005, 06:08 PM
Wing flex is also what I am worried about on the ME-109. I can't help but wonder how long one of these GWS birds will hold up being flown in such an extreme manner.

qban_flyer
12-04-2005, 01:23 AM
Wing flex is also what I am worried about on the ME-109. I can't help but wonder how long one of these GWS birds will hold up being flown in such an extreme manner.

A 3mm carbon fiber rod spar plus throttle management should keep them flying for a long time unless we insist on doing axial rolls 30 feet above the tarmac. :D

timocharis
12-04-2005, 05:00 AM
Thirty feet? Why so high?


Dave

qban_flyer
12-04-2005, 03:29 PM
Thirty feet? Why so high?


Dave

Some of us 'aim high'. :D

Bill G
12-18-2005, 10:20 PM
I guess bashing is the most descriptive way to state it. I've been saying this all along. GWS kits are simple low cost kits which are intended to be modified to the users liking. I would rather buy a GWS plane and reinforce it with cf spars and booms, than by another type of plane which is less prone to modifying. Done properly, you can have one of the strongest planes out there. Same goes for the motors, which are basically free. The motor can be tossed if desired, but the gearboxes are excellent, and can be adapted to many excellent low cost bl motors.
Twinmaster, I Monokoted my ME-109 wing, which makes many times stronger, and basically eliminates flex. It can be applied at a low enough temp to not melt the foam. In fact, they have proven to be indestructible so far, after covering.

kuzikood
12-19-2005, 01:24 AM
we do things right here in the south to make things smooth........ i gots one word for ya'll...........BONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL THAT WAS A JOKE BONDO MELTS FOAM! dont ask me how i know that lol i just do...dont try this at home unless ya want a 4 pound model lol

-kuzi-

qban_flyer
12-19-2005, 02:06 AM
I guess bashing is the most descriptive way to state it. I've been saying this all along. GWS kits are simple low cost kits which are intended to be modified to the users liking. I would rather buy a GWS plane and reinforce it with cf spars and booms, than by another type of plane which is less prone to modifying. Done properly, you can have one of the strongest planes out there. Same goes for the motors, which are basically free. The motor can be tossed if desired, but the gearboxes are excellent, and can be adapted to many excellent low cost bl motors.
Twinmaster, I Monokoted my ME-109 wing, which makes many times stronger, and basically eliminates flex. It can be applied at a low enough temp to not melt the foam. In fact, they have proven to be indestructible so far, after covering.

I'm with you 100%!!!:D

qban_flyer
12-19-2005, 02:08 AM
we do things right here in the south to make things smooth........ i gots one word for ya'll...........BONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL THAT WAS A JOKE BONDO MELTS FOAM! dont ask me how i know that lol i just do...dont try this at home unless ya want a 4 pound model lol

-kuzi-

Kuzi,

I use BONDO to fix my 14 pound gasser's fuselage. Works great!!!:D :D :D

I buy it by the gallon!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

kuzikood
12-19-2005, 02:11 AM
by the way qban ive been thrue 2 SS kits countless gfearboxes a couple receivers numerous servos hundreds of flights and nearly as manyu crashes and thousands of broken props ..yet i still haventkilled my first wing...... Slow stick forever man

-kuzi-

kuzikood
12-19-2005, 02:12 AM
ohj yea the bondo spot putty might be worth trying on foam its softer and lighter than traditional bondo i dun know if it will melt foam but it would be worth trying on a broken wing
-kuzi-

qban_flyer
12-19-2005, 02:20 AM
The humble GWS SLOW STICK is so durable as to almost be an indestructible model. The more we abuse them, the faster they come back for more abuse!!!:p

They are like cats, they have 9 Lives!:D

TLyttle
12-19-2005, 02:37 AM
Nope, spot putty has a foam-eating solvent in it: the hole you fixed just got bigger!

Drywall filler is water-based, feathers out really well, and is light if used in moderation. I don't recommend using it on an uncovered model, as wing flex would likely pop it out...

qban_flyer
12-19-2005, 03:06 AM
Bondo's filler heat reaction will melt the foam. That is a given.

Spot putty fillers have something akin to lacquer thinner in their contents. Lacquer thinner or similar solvents will eat the foam just as easy as acetone would. :eek:

Neither are compatible with foams. :)