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Grasshopper
07-12-2006, 05:45 PM
I've been looking at the Pica PT-19 kit and am a bit confused. I've seen it shown as a glo model and as an electric but both times, the specs show it as a glo. I think it would be a good electric conversion and just the right size at 36" wingspan but was curious if there are actually two different kits. I've read the thread on RCU and still can't determine if there is an electric kit.

Does anyone know?

Grasshopper
07-12-2006, 06:38 PM
Here's two links from the same site. One is for electric and one for glo.

https://www.quicktechhobby.com/Airplane/PICA/RC%2025%20FAIRCHILD.htm

https://www.quicktechhobby.com/Airplane/PICA/RC%2025%20FAIRCHILD.htm


Here's the link that shows the main page with the two listed at different prices but I can't see any difference.

http://www.quicktechhobby.com/Airplane/PICA/pica_products.htm

rfzl
07-12-2006, 07:41 PM
I have the small Pica PT-19 marketed as the electric. It does not have any landing gear provisions and the cowl is designed for an electric motor. It flies fine but I found that using a 80-100 watt motor is way to much. I have an 1400kv motor with 7x4E prop and I fly most of the time at half throttle. Going full bore increases speed some but not as much as one would think.

I converted mine to have gear and I made a couple of other changes to allow for better cooling. Getting the proper balance was a bit of a chore as using a outrunner and Lipos did not add enough weight to the nose to get the CG right. I added about 1oz to get it there but could use more.

Not a bad plane to build if you like ABS. The entire top of the plane is ABS. I removed everything from the rear cockpit back and used stringers. Looks the same and I saved at least an ounce of tail weight.

Good luck if you decide to give this a try.
Ron

Grasshopper
07-12-2006, 08:04 PM
Thanks rfzl.

I would really like to have gear on it since the full scale flew with them down. Have you seen the glow kit to know if it would convert OK? I would rather have and all balsa construction if possible. I was thinking of using the 480 geared brushed motor out of my E-Flite P-47 if it would work since I already have it and a brushed speed controller that are like new. Do you think it would fit in the cowl? How was the kit quality?

rfzl
07-12-2006, 09:28 PM
I've not seen the glow version of this kit so can not comment on that. I think the glow version does come with the necessary parts to have the landing gear. If not, it is not that hard to add.

As for the cowl, I would think the glow version would be different as there would be no need to have the space to clear the electric motor. Mine has a larger opening that allows a direct drive motor to clear the sides. Not scale but very effective. The glow version would not have this and you may have some issues there. Using a geared motor might overcome this as you can have the motor further back in the cowl and extend the shaft to get the necessary clearance.

A geard 480 will be more than enough power but the larger prop may be a problem. The glow version would use a .074-.10 engine that swing a 7" prop for the most part. A geared 480 would use at least an 8" and most likely a 9"-10" prop. The ground clearence would be very tight.

I think the main differences between the glow and electric versions of the kit would be the cowl, the lack/addition of landing gear, and the necessary mounting parts for the engine/motor. The electric has a front motor mount that fit both a sp400 and sp480 motor so you don't have to make your own. The design seems to be more for direct drive than a geared system. Only you can deside on that.

If you have a choice, get the electic version of the kit and add the gear mounts. I just beefed up the wing panel by adding spar webbing, sheeted the center section, and used a standard hard-wood gear mount (you know, the kind with a groove cut in it for the wire). I made sure it was strong enough and use 1/8" wire. For the upper body changes (less ABS), you would have to build your own cockpits if you replace it all. I think just getting rid of the back part is enough as the front part has all of the details. The weight is not that great, as this part is over the CG. I just knew that I would be tail heavy so wanted to minimize the impact by getting rid of the extra plastic.

Hope this helps. I don't have any build pictures but would be happy to provide more details and close-up pics of the finished plane.

As for the kit quality, it was good. the parts are laser cut, fit well, and I did not have much to change or sand to get a good fit. I would plan on using as light of covering as you can. That would easily drop an extra ounce and a lot of that behind the CG. Just gives you more options on where to put the battery. My all up weight was about 18oz and the wing loading was well below 20oz/sqft. Don't need a lot of speed in this kind of setup.

Good luck.
Ron

Twmaster
07-13-2006, 01:47 AM
I had what was supposed to be the glow version of the kit. It seems they included many of the parts that belonged to the electric kit. Needless to say this was a failed project.

The short of it is yea, there are (or more were) two versions of the kit. It's a shame really as if all of the parts had been the right ones it would have been a nice plane. I found out too late that Pica had folded to get remedy to the problem. Perhaps that is partly why they are now gone? :confused:

Grasshopper
07-13-2006, 04:21 AM
Thanks Ron and Mike, You've provided a lot of good information. I think I'll keep looking for a while. I wanted a PT-19 because it was the first control line I flew when I was a kid. It was the Cox .049. Then I started building rubber powered planes and my Dad and I built a PT-19 balsa and tissue model. That was 32 years ago and I'm just about finished restoring it. It's amazing all the parts were still there. I stripped it down to the frame and got out the old tissue and dope. I've got to replace the windshields and it's done. I just thought it would be neat to do an RC version.

Thanks again,

Tom

Twmaster
07-13-2006, 04:31 AM
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pt19.htm

Grasshopper
07-13-2006, 04:37 AM
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pt19.htm

Thanks Mike. Boy I'd like to have a dollar for every time I've looked at that one. I could pay the $99 for sure. Wattage also has a pretty good looking one. Just wasn't quite ready to drop that much on one yet. I was looking at the Pica on E-bay that went for $31. Theres another one on there now at $19.

Twmaster
07-13-2006, 04:45 AM
The Pica kits that I've looked at were always nice which is why I picked up the PT-19 when my LHS was preparing to close up. (Thankfully they got bought in the nick of time!)

To be honest the wood was decent and the laser cutting was very clean. They just managed to put the wrong parts in the box. I suppose that is a danger of having more than one version of a particular model.

Where am I going with all that verbiage?? ;)

Well what I intended to say is if you can get the Pica kit for ~$30 AND it is complete that would be a nice buy.

Grasshopper
07-13-2006, 04:51 AM
The Pica kits that I've looked at were always nice which is why I picked up the PT-19 when my LHS was preparing to close up. (Thankfully they got bought in the nick of time!)

To be honest the wood was decent and the laser cutting was very clean. They just managed to put the wrong parts in the box. I suppose that is a danger of having more than one version of a particular model.

Where am I going with all that verbiage?? ;)

Well what I intended to say is if you can get the Pica kit for ~$30 AND it is complete that would be a nice buy.

That's kind of where I was at with it. The one listed is not the electric version so I wasn't sure how it would convert.

rfzl
07-17-2006, 04:44 PM
I would have to agree with Mike and get this kit if you want a PT-19. Even if you have to convert a glow version to electric, I don't think it would be too much work. The only real concern would be the cowl and you could make the necessary changes using a heated spoon to "move" around the plastic so it fits. For aroud $30, it would be a good buy for what you get.

If you need any templates for the electric version, I'm sure I can draw out what you need and provide the necessary details. Mainly, the firewall would be balsa with some slots to add the motor mount.

Good lucka and I hope you can recapture those old feelings. I, too, had a PT-19 on a string and it was great fun. That was about 35 years ago but still a fond memory.

Best regards,
Ron

Grasshopper
07-17-2006, 05:14 PM
Thanks for the help rfzl,

I most likely will pick one of these up at some time. Thanks for the offer on the templates and info. I'll certainly take you up on it when the time comes. I've attached a couple of pictures of my rubber powered PT-19. I just need to put on the wind shields and it will be done. The first picture is what it looked like when I started to re-build it. The red white and blue diagonal stripes on the wings were from me being creative with stickers when I was a kid. I changed the color scheme to make it more realistic. Now I just have to find a way to keep my 3 1/2 year old son away from it so he doesn't do something creative with it. I don't even remember who made this kit but we originally built it 32 years ago.

eamrc
07-22-2006, 12:42 AM
:D I have some Pica PT-19 electrics in stock !!!!

http://eam.net/EAMRC/scale.htm

I will mark it down to $50.oo plus $8.00 shipping Scroll to the bottom of that page I can ship it tomorrow

rfzl
07-22-2006, 01:52 AM
Grasshopper, the plane does not look too bad for 30 or so years of wear. The refinished one looks a bit plain compared to the original but more scale. Let's hope the young one grows up and has the same interest as dad. Maybe do another project with him so he has something to look back on in 35 years.

Great pics.
Ron

Grasshopper
07-22-2006, 02:06 AM
Thanks Ron,

I've still got to put on the windshields and I would like to put some numbers on the sides of the fuse. I just haven't found the numbers I want yet. My little guy is probably going to like this hobby. He likes working with his hands and is very good with them. It's just that at 3 1/2, the attention span isn't real long. But then again mine isn't either at 45.

Grasshopper
07-26-2006, 04:08 AM
I am the proud new owner of a Pica PT-19. It's a glo version that I won on Fee Bay today for $30 new in the box that will be built as electric. I'd like some suggestions on what to power this with. Here' are the specs:

http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/c5/62/c8_12_sb.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300008972135&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)

Specifications for 1/12 Pica Farchild :

Wingspan: 36 in.
Wingarea: 220 sq.in.
Weight: 21 - 25oz.
Radio: 3 - 4 Channel
Engine: .051 - .10Also, I think I read somewhere where there is a patch available to help get me off this addiction. 4 new planes ordered in 2 weeks. I need help! But after I get help with the power system for this thing please.

Thanks,

Tom

Twmaster
07-26-2006, 04:42 AM
I had the very same kit as detailed earlier in this thread. My plan was to power it with an AXi 2212/24 and 3S lipo.

Grasshopper
07-26-2006, 04:56 AM
I'd like to use my 3S 2100 15C lipos. I'm trying to use them in as many of my planes as possible so I can keep something standard between them.

Twmaster
07-26-2006, 05:56 AM
Just check to make sure they will fit in the fuse as I seem to recall it not being very big inside on the one I had.

flyranger
07-26-2006, 12:47 PM
I also bought one of these kits on feebay and resold it. Fuse is way too small for a builder/tweaker like myself. Also when I ran the numbers of wing area and my projected weight, the wing loading was much higher than I wanted for a "park flyer".

Grasshopper
07-26-2006, 04:19 PM
Well, sounds like there might be a little challenge to this one. I'll give it a look when it arrives and see how it looks. I would assume this plane would be best covered with a Mono Kote type material to keep the weight down. I've done a lot of sheeting with balsa and covering with tissue and silkspan but I've never used the iron on films. Any suggestions here on what to cover it with? I personally like the balsa sheeting but I would imagine it would add too much weight...right?

Twmaster
07-26-2006, 04:29 PM
Ultracoat. Easy to work with, shrinks well and uses low heat.

I've been working with it recently (first time with iron on too) and I like it.

Framing the kit up will go easily (if they sent the right parts) as mine went smoothly until I found the wrong bits in the kit. The only part of that kit I did not like was the plastic turtledeck.

Grasshopper
07-26-2006, 04:31 PM
Thanks Mike,

I'll see if the LHS has it. I'll need to buy an iron too. I see there are the standard irons, trim irons and so on. Any suggestions here? Is there one all around good size or shape?

Bill G
07-26-2006, 09:12 PM
Thanks rfzl.

I would really like to have gear on it since the full scale flew with them down. Have you seen the glow kit to know if it would convert OK? I would rather have and all balsa construction if possible. I was thinking of using the 480 geared brushed motor out of my E-Flite P-47 if it would work since I already have it and a brushed speed controller that are like new. Do you think it would fit in the cowl? How was the kit quality?

Probably not much difference, as long as your creative with mounting motors. I always thought it was a waste of time, when magazines feature "Conversion" articles. I think they do it when they are lacking good articles, and need some easy filler. Its just good ol' mounting a motor. Go for it Grass, you'll make it happen.

The problem with the geared setup is that the offset causes one to have to hack a larger cutout in the firewall center hole. I always hate to hack into the model, all though I've done it before. Not that its difficult, but that it alters the firewall, so that it will need patched, if something like an outrunner is used later. I guess its the easy no-offset mounting that's made outrunners so popular.

I really like the Hobby Lobby PT19. Have you looked at it?

Grasshopper
07-26-2006, 09:30 PM
Hi Bill,

I probably will go with a brushless outrunner. I was just tossing around the idea of the brushed set up since it's laying there with no home. I've looked at the Hobby Lobby PT-19 (a bunch). I think they've done a nice job on it. I really didn't want to drop that much cash on another ARF. I have 3 ARFs on order now (Richmodels Spitfire, P-38 and a MM Magpie AP) and now this PT-19 kit. I was wanting to get back in to building and the PT-19 has always been apealing to me. This Pica seemed like a good deal for $39 delivered. Guess we'll see once we get into it.

Thanks for the boost in confidence!

rfzl
07-29-2006, 06:41 AM
I'd like to use my 3S 2100 15C lipos. I'm trying to use them in as many of my planes as possible so I can keep something standard between them.

Glad to see you found a kit so quickly. As I did the electric version, I can't say if the glow version will have the parts for landing gear or not. That will be the easy part to convert if necessary. The cowl may be different as the electric version I have has a cowl built to take a direct drive 400-480 can motor. I am using one of the Hobby Lobby special (Atlas 14) which is the high rpm version. It swings a 7x4E at 12K plus so has plenty of power and speed. The comment about space are valid and a 1500 may be a bit tight. I use 1320's and they fit fine. I had to add about 1oz of weight to the nose so a 1500 may be the ticket to avoid the extra weight. I think the 2100 will be a bit much, both in size and weight. I only need about 60W to fly the plane well and the full 100W will take it straight up and gives a top speed near 50 mph. I do amost all of the flight at 1/2-2/3 throttle including the takeoff. You won't need much motor unless you over-weight it with gear-box and battery. The key to this plane is to keep it light.

As you will have the parts for a glow engine, there will be some conversion to make it work as an elecric. The easiest way will be to use a direct drive (outrunner or can motor) and build a mount that will bolt directly to the firewall. You may want to exchange the ply firewall for something lighter but the weight saving will be minimal and you'll need the extra strength to support the motor. The electric version uses a balsa firewall and a light ply mount that is glued to it and supports the motor at the front. The cowl is such to allow this to clear and let air pass around it to cool the motor and battery.

As for sheeting the plane, I see no reason to not do it but it really is not needed. The fuse has slab sides and only the wing is open. Use 1/32" sheet the you'll add maybe a 1/4 oz in weight. The covering will be your biggest problem in weight as most of it will be behind the CG. Use something light and you'll be fine.

Now, the flying of this plane. I don't recall th weight but it does need a bit of speed and will stall off a wing if you get too slow. Landings are a bit fast but not bad. It will not float in like a trainer so be prepared. Another thing I found is that it will elevator snap if you have too much throw. I was prepared for such an event so no problems, but can catch you off guard during landing or a high speed loop. You will want to have the CG on the forward end of the limits. Just a little tail heavy will make this a one an instant kit. Don't ask how I know. I was lucky and it came back in one piece.

As mentioned before, I'll take pictures of my little hot rod if you like so you can see how the cowl and motor mount looks. I'm sure you'll have some fun building this plane. A little thought and planning will go a long ways and the finished product will be nice looking.

Ron

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 07:00 AM
Hey thanks a lot rfzl! This is a big help. I will definitely be using a direct drive brushless outrunner. The 2100 was kind of wishful thinking and a smaller pack won't be a problem. I may be able to use the same size on a Richmodels Spitfire I have on the way. At least I would have two planes on that size pack. This PT-19 Does come with the landing gear in the kit.

I would love to see pics of yours if you get a chance. I'm not sure when I'll get to start this one. It's scheduled to arrive on Monday according to UPS but I just started a Magpie AP tonight and have the Spitfire and a P-38 on the way too. I think I'm done buying planes for a while. I just started back into this in January and I'll already have 7 full size planes (5 of them warbirds) and my two Aero Aces.

Hopefully I'll be OK on flying it since I've been flying my P-51 and P-47 for several months now with no mishaps (knock on wood). I do appreciate all the tips you've given here. What is an elevator snap?

rfzl
07-31-2006, 05:24 PM
.... What is an elevator snap?

An elevator snap is when a plane will try to do a snap roll with only elevator input. Some planes, especially many warbirds, seem to have this problem. If the throw on the elevator is too great, and you apply full up at high speed, the plane will flip onto its back and continue a snap roll if speed stays high enough. This same condition can happen if you get the plane too slow and apply up elevator, as in landing. Many people call this a tip stall, same basic problem just a bit of a different circumstance. To correct this problem, just reduce the throws on the elevator. This can be an issue if you get them too low as there will not be enough control when the plane slows for landing. It is a fine line. I like to have at least the maximum throws set on the Tx as a high rate setting and then use about 65% as a low setting. I get some height and speed and give it full up. If it does a tight loop, the great. If it does something else, then I know the throws are too much. Depending on what does happen, I'll either drop to low rates or just baby the plane around and land. I've had some planes that will do an elevator snap in a heart beat and at a speed and elevator input which would not seem to be a problem. The control surfaces on the PT-19 are rather large for this size if plane so that is why the snap problem. Keep them at a reasonable level and you should have no issues.

If you have never had a plane that did an elevator snap, then count yourself lucky. I have several but all are managable with light thumbs and careful speed control.

As for pics. I'll get some this week of the nose area and post them on my WEB site. The link is http://home.comcast.net/~fzl. I have some pics of a couple of my other planes so check it out.

Best regards,
Ron

Grasshopper
07-31-2006, 07:32 PM
Thanks again Ron. My kit arrived today. I love the color brown! (the UPS truck). At first impression, the kit looks really good. I don't think it will be that difficult to modify for electrics. I think the cowl will be fine for an outrunner which is the way I'll go, but putting a geared set up in it would be difficult if not impossible. It will probably be a while before I get to it since there are 3 more in front of it.

Thanks for all your input. I look forward to seeing your photos.

Tom