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Slent thndr
08-29-2005, 03:38 AM
OK my new Triton is acting funny. It keeps happening that I will do a Discharge to Charge for instance, and it will discharge for a while (supposedly stopping at 0.8V/Cell for Nickel and 3V/Cell for LiPoly) and then switch for charge, but it will go for about 400-600 mAH on these 1500 and 3000 mAH batts and then stop. I thought it was the temp sensor flaking so I took it out. It was working on a 3000 mAH NiMh and then the input voltage must have gone below whatever because it gave an error about it. Then i did a discharge to charge on a 1500 mAH NiCd. It took about 600 mAH out of it, and then charged for 400 mAH and stopped. No temp sensor plugged in. It was like 11.5V though. Then plugged it on for more and it got another 600 mAH in it and stopped.

Then I noticed another weired thing. Every few minutes during charge the Triton's amperage displays 0.0 and at the same time my PSU's fan speeds up. In a few secs the amperage returns to normal and the PSU's fan goes back down. Measuring the voltage of the psu during charge with a multimeter it is at 10.6. When the freaky 0.0 amp thing and fan speeding happens it raises to 11.5V like it usually is. Its like the Triton suddenly decides to take a break and drops it to 0A, and the PSU fan speeds because it has more power back. Is this supposed to happen? I don't think so.

Thinking about it again it makes sense. The charge amps temporarily drops to 0 for whatever reason, maybe due to the PSU, which in turn could make the pack voltage drop a little. If it happens just right this will trigger the delta peak detection because it is looking for the pack voltage to start dropping which should mean that it has reached peak charge.

So assuming that the Amperage drop isn't supposed to happen, which I don't think it is, then it could ether be because of a defective charger or a flaky PSU. I will try charging same batt same settings on a car battery tomorrow and see it that fixes it. In the mean time please share relivent facts or suggestions, or alternate hypotheses.

Slent thndr
08-29-2005, 04:06 PM
Tested it this morning and the same thing (amps drop) happens on the pb car battery. But even though it only put 500 mAH in it and then 600 mAH in it it it definitly at peak, i can tell by the voltage which declines during charge. Mabye the mAh counter thing just is innacurate? or mabye the batt is failing? Well it was definitly detecting the peak early before which i think has something to do with the sudden amperage drop thing. Now i know that my PSU is not the cause so the charger must be defective? Plz someone help.

Gasp this happened to the last charger i bought too. Had to have it refurbished.

rcers
08-29-2005, 04:57 PM
Then I noticed another weired thing. Every few minutes during charge the Triton's amperage displays 0.0 and at the same time my PSU's fan speeds up. In a few secs the amperage returns to normal and the PSU's fan goes back down. Measuring the voltage of the psu during charge with a multimeter it is at 10.6.
The 0.0 amps is normal, as it is checking the resting voltage.

10.6 is not enough. I set my PS at 13.8v (just like a charged car battery).

Also check the max charge in settings, as it may still be set to defaul of 1000mA and that will cause you issues. I set mine to 9999mA effectively disabling this safty feature.

Mike

Slent thndr
08-29-2005, 05:11 PM
Thank you for the info. How do I make my PSU voltage higher though?

rcers
08-29-2005, 05:22 PM
The PS only puts out 12v (mine only did about 11.9v) when the 5v lines are loaded. So you may need more load on that 5v line.

Mike

buzzbomber
08-29-2005, 05:28 PM
This probably won't help you any, but I had similar experience. On less than 11 volts output from a computer PS, my Triton wouldn't even power on. When I got it up to 11.5 volts, it would power on, but couldn't charge anything larger than a 150maH nicad. Since the local radio shack had none of the resistors I wanted to load up the 5v line higher, I gave up and bought a 10 amp PS for about $50.

Unbalanced prop
08-29-2005, 07:38 PM
The PS only puts out 12v (mine only did about 11.9v) when the 5v lines are loaded. So you may need more load on that 5v line.

Mike

I agree with Mike. One of my PS is an old PC power supply unit, and I have two resistors and a 12 volt car bulb on the 5V side to make it put out enough voltage. The Triton is really picky about the input voltage. Try charging from a car battery and see if you get the same errors.

Doug

Slent thndr
08-29-2005, 08:02 PM
I tried it on a car battery for a little while. The 0 Amp thing still happened, but I am told that that is normal (still strange). I diddn't do it long enough to see if it would finish the charge. I'll go test it later.

And with my PS I diddn't have to put any load on the 5V line. It is from a CD tower so it it designed to work independantly of a Mother board. When i flip the switch it turns on. I never even had to open it up to do any mods. Mabye i do now. It is very steady at 11.5V when the charger is not in use, and during charge sometimes goes down to 10V.

Ok so I want it higher Voltage. I put load on the 5v line and that should help?

Another thing is that the PSU is only rated at 11A. Is that enough for charging 6 and 8 cell Nickel based packs 1500-3000 mAH? (the 8 cell ones are only 1500-1800 mAH).

rcers
08-29-2005, 08:17 PM
The 0 Amp thing still happened, but I am told that that is normal (still strange).

As indicated this is normal, I don't know why you find it strange. It stops charging to check the voltage of the pack. All peak chargers do this (that I am aware of).

Another thing is that the PSU is only rated at 11A. Is that enough for charging 6 and 8 cell Nickel based packs 1500-3000 mAH? (the 8 cell ones are only 1500-1800 mAH).

Yep that is plenty.

It is very steady at 11.5V when the charger is not in use, and during charge sometimes goes down to 10V.

That is an indication that the PS is not regulated, and is not able to handle the load placed on it.

Mike

GeraldRosebery
08-29-2005, 09:55 PM
Your problem is the almost certainly the power supply. The Triton will not work properly, particularly if output voltage required is over 12V (10 cell pack) with undervolt on the power bus. One other thing you can check if the peak detection voltage drop in Mv. Make sure the voltage you select is suitable to the battery packs being charged or you could get a false peak.

Slent thndr
08-29-2005, 09:56 PM
Rcers - What do you mean by regulated? Does that mean I need to put the resistor or whatever on it? And again what did u mean that I should put more load on the 5V line?

GeraldR- Thanks for the info. So if I set the delta peak cuttoff mv to a bit higher will that prevent false peaks? Of course then it would be less accurate at detecting the peak when it comes, but if it would prevent the false ones. I think I have the NiMh set at 3mV and the NiCd set at 5mV.

rcers
08-29-2005, 10:10 PM
Regulated means it puts out the power, without much voltage or amperage fluxuation. So when you are appling a load from the charger the supply is dropping too much voltage, it may recover, but when that drops too low the Triton will be very unhappy. Remember it has to step up or down the voltage to charge your pack, it likes for that input voltage to stay constant so it does not always have to deal with the input voltage changes.

Since yours came from a CD tower, I don't know if it has a 5v line. The PC supplies do as that is what powers the motherboard. It has to "see" that load to produce the voltage on the 12v lines at the amperage listed.

Most of these power supplies are super cheap so they don't regulate them due to cost savings.

I have never messed with my Nicad or NiMh peak settings, it has never missed peak on either cell type and it fills them up well, so I think the defaults are pretty good.

Mike

GeraldRosebery
08-29-2005, 10:19 PM
Rcers - What do you mean by regulated? Does that mean I need to put the resistor or whatever on it? And again what did u mean that I should put more load on the 5V line?

GeraldR- Thanks for the info. So if I set the delta peak cuttoff mv to a bit higher will that prevent false peaks? Of course then it would be less accurate at detecting the peak when it comes, but if it would prevent the false ones. I think I have the NiMh set at 3mV and the NiCd set at 5mV.

I think your delta peak voltages are too low. Try 8 mv for NiMH and 20 mv for NiCd's.

uninverted
08-30-2005, 02:18 AM
Have just had a quick look at posts, may have overlooked this, but out of interest, the Triton has a setting to cut off charge after a specified period to avoid overcharging.
If this is set too low, early cut off results.
My PS is regulated to 13.8V, system works perfectly.

Slent thndr
08-30-2005, 02:39 AM
Well I know it doesn't one of the special cords going to the mother borad like the P4/PD boards have. However there is a 5V line that comes on the yellow and black wires. The 12V comes on the red and black wires. So what exactly do i do to 'regulate' it. I know that there is the installation of a resistor involved but where, when, why, how... you get the point. And if i can get it to be 'regulated' than is the 11.8V enough?

Yes I have the mAH limit turned off, but thanks for the reminder.

ragbag
08-30-2005, 03:19 AM
If you go to Reds clinic you can get the directions for the wiring the load on the 5 volt line.

http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/

It has pictures and all that neat stuff that would take me a while to load.

By George

Slent thndr
09-01-2005, 03:27 AM
If I charge at a low amperage on my PSU its fine, but definitly more stable with the car. I have looked at the clinic's article but it is a little consusing. All I see is instructions to make the posts and stuff. How do I regulate it and/or increase the voltage?

Unbalanced prop
09-01-2005, 02:28 PM
How do I regulate it and/or increase the voltage?

You have to put more of a load on the 5 volt side. The most common items used are resistors or 12 volt automotive bulbs. This will give you higher and more stable voltage on the 12 volt output. Since it is more stable with a car battery, the problem is the voltage dip under high load on the 12 volt side.

Doug

Slent thndr
09-01-2005, 02:38 PM
What kind of resistor do I need and where can I get it? I dont have any load on the 5V line right now.

Unbalanced prop
09-01-2005, 02:55 PM
I used the 10 ohm reisitor from here.

http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F002%5F014%5F004&Page=1

A 12 volt automotive bulb is just as effective and gives the bonus of lighting up when the power supply is on. I used both on mine to get a good solid 12 volts.

Doug

Slent thndr
09-03-2005, 06:32 PM
ok thanks. I will be at a Radio Shack today so hopefully they will have it. 10 ohm. Otherwise mabye they will have the bulb... what is an 'automotive bulb' exactly?

And then where do i put it? Do i have to open up the box or do i just put it on any of the 5V lines?

Matt Kirsch
09-04-2005, 02:46 AM
Just connect it to one of the 5V lines, and ground. You've definitely got a lack of regulation going there.

One other thing to look at is your charge leads. Very long, very thin charge leads have very high resistance, and cause large voltage drops between the battery and charger... This can cause the charger to "false peak," or misdetect when the battery's voltage peaks. You want leads as short as possible, and for flight packs, at least 16ga wire, if not heavier.

Slent thndr
09-05-2005, 02:12 PM
The wire I used was intended for very high performance sound systems. I dont know the gage but it looks big, I could find out. Its not that long.

Ok so I bought a 10 ohm 1/2 watt resistor. Is that good? So I put it on one of the 5V lines. But wont I then put one end on the +5V (yellow) and the other on the -5V (black)?

P.S.
how can you be a super moderator with less posts than me?

Slent thndr
09-07-2005, 05:48 AM
Update:
Still wondering about the above, but a guy i know who has a degree in electricity and has built PSUs from scratch said that putting a resistor on the 5V shouldn't help anything. He was talking about putting one on the 12V or something. Now all confused.

Unbalanced prop
09-07-2005, 06:28 AM
P.S.
how can you be a super moderator with less posts than me?

We go for QUALITY around here, not quanity.;)

Doug

PS: You allready have a load on the 12 volt side when you are charging.:rolleyes: If you want it to work right, do like everyone said and put a load on the 5 volt side.

rcers
09-07-2005, 03:28 PM
and has built PSUs from scratch said that putting a resistor on the 5V shouldn't help anything
PC case power supplies expect to see a load on the 5v lines. The motherboard from the PC is the item that normally loads that 5v line. If it does not see the load there, it won't put out the proper voltage on the 12v line. So your friend is mistaken there. You can use resistors or light bulbs (12v work fine) but it must be loaded.

In the case of your CD case ps- I don't know what it needs.

Perhaps you should just purchase a ready made PS from radio shack or Ebay.

Mike

rahtware
09-07-2005, 04:33 PM
ST

I am confused as to why you didn't follow ragbabs advice and go to Red's website for instructions on how to convert your power supply.:confused:

If you go to Reds clinic you can get the directions for the wiring the load on the 5 volt line.

http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/

It has pictures and all that neat stuff that would take me a while to load.

By George
I followed the instructions (except I used banana plug sockets instead of the top mounted posts) and my Triton is working fine.

Also, the leads are tricky... I had 3' leads of 12 guage wire, but had to shorten them to 6" for the Triton to be happy with some of my LiPos.

1338

Slent thndr
09-07-2005, 04:58 PM
Ok I will put a resistor on the 5V and post back later:)

thannks, thunder

Slent thndr
09-18-2005, 08:41 PM
ok wait guys, what wattage of resistor am I supposed to use? I bought a 1/2 watt, but then was told that that was too small and would just burst, so I bought a 10 watt.

And do I just put it on any of the 5V lines coming out of the PSU? Or in the instructions on the Batt Clinic site I saw a big 10 watt resistor soldered somewhere inside the PSU. What do I solder it to?

rcers
09-18-2005, 08:49 PM
I used two 10w in parallel. I think the load was in the 15w range....they got quite warm.

I can't remember maybe I used two 5w resisters. Yes the resistor(s) gets soldered to the 5v line.

Mike

Slent thndr
09-18-2005, 09:17 PM
Thanks for the Reply

Any 5V line? Kinda like I connected the charger to any 12V line? Than what was that in the instructions about one inside the PSU?

rcers
09-19-2005, 03:39 PM
Thunder I linked the 12v lines together as one or two wires seemed kinda thin.

I used one pair of the 5v lines for the resistors.

Mike

rahtware
09-19-2005, 05:09 PM
The following is from: http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/

1680

Power supplies in today's computers are known as SWITCHMODE or Switching Mode power supplies and require a load to continue to operate after being switched on (the term switching mode actually applies to the technique of A/C to D/C conversion and not to the power up action). This load is provided by a 10 watt, 10 ohm wire wound load resistor (sandbar - about $0.80 at Radio Shack) across the +5 volt supply. Some inexpensive power supplies may fail if forced on without a load. The sandbar has been zip tied to the case with a small amount of heat sink compound applied. Without cooling, the resistor will get very hot and may fail prematurely. With this arrangement, the resistor will remain barely warm to the touch. If you are using a high wattage supply, it may be necessary to double up on your load resistors to avoid overheating.

Slent thndr
09-19-2005, 06:43 PM
That looks like the resistor I bought, but it shows the resistor installed inside the PSU case. Is that what i'm supposed to do? I thought i was to put it on one of the 5V lines.

rcers
09-19-2005, 07:52 PM
That looks like the resistor I bought, but it shows the resistor installed inside the PSU case. Is that what i'm supposed to do? I thought i was to put it on one of the 5V lines.

You can install it anywhere you want, it gets hot, so make sure it gets cooling. That is why this is attached to the case side in the picture.

It is attached to the 5v line in the picture.

Mike

Slent thndr
09-19-2005, 08:27 PM
Oh I see. Just one of the 5V lines before it comes out of the case. I'll try that and use some silver thermal compound.

Slent thndr
10-08-2005, 02:42 AM
Just wanted to say that I sucessfully soldered the resistor onto the 5V line, and it all works now.

I pulled a pair of 5V wires into the PS case, soldered the resistor on, and suspended it in front of the PS fan.

Voltage with no load is 12.something. I am yet to test the voltage under load but I suspect that it is acceptable as my batts charge fine!

Thanks

ST

hoppy
10-09-2005, 05:00 AM
DrumRoll please........
You done good guys:)