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Grasshopper
07-28-2006, 04:27 PM
My Magpie AP has arrived and I've decided to do a build thread on it. This will be my first foam kit (and build thread) so it will not be so much to show you what to do but hopefully, more of helping you avoid the mistakes I will probably make.

I've built a lot of balsa kits in the past so I'll need to change gears a little for foam. Anyone please feel free to jump in and help, correct me, or offer constructive critisism. My feelings are not hurt by telling me I'm screwing something up.

I'll start posting some pictures this weekend but here's the set up I'm planning on using:

Mountain Models Magpie AP
Spektrum DX6 Transmitter/receiver
2908-10 motor
TP30A Gen 2 ESC
3. ea. SG90 Servos (I won't be using a servo on the camera mount)
2. ea. Servo extension 12" (actually used 3 ea. 6" extensions)
(Motor,ESC and servos from are from www.rcepower.com (http://www.rcepower.com))
3S 2100 15C Common Sense RC Lipo
APC 10x7E prop. (Starting with an APC 9x6E)
Camera is yet to be determined and will be posted later (Nikon Coolpix L3)

I'm planning on covering the plane with a new Polyester non-woven fabric and Minwax Polycrylic water based polyurethane. I have a new Poly fabric out with a few of the members for testing and will be posting info on it as we progress with it. It is extremely light but very tough and conforms well to curves. It appears to lay down better than silk or fiberglass cloth. I'm planning on offering it for sale once the tests are in. If interested, feel free to PM me.

I don't get a lot of time in the shop so unfortunately, this might take a little time. Between the job, wife, 4 kids and all the other Honey Dos, RC time is not as much as I would like it to be. That with the fact that its always about 100 degrees in my shop right now, forces me into the dining room.

Thanks for being patient and I look forward to learning this together.

Tom

Edited: Added Spektrum DX6 system, prop specs, servo extensions and camera.

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 01:16 AM
Ok, let's get started. Here's how the Magpie AP arrives. I will say that Mountain models shipped it out very quickly and it arrived in perfect condition.

As I mentioned in another thread, being my first foam kit, I was a little suprised with what I got for the money. When I opened the box, I thought I got a cut up styrofoam cooler and a small bag of hardware. It's actually a pretty clean and simple design. The laser cut parts are cut very clean. The styrofoam seems a little rough for my taste but that should cover ok with the poly covering.

The photos below show how it arrives and what's in the box.

Kosh
07-29-2006, 02:09 AM
Im into this, Now dont go sucking up all that new plane smell right away. Save some for tomorrow. :p

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 02:20 AM
Oh I have a feeling this will last way longer than I want it to. Taking pictures and writing what I'm doing will stretch it out I'm sure. I will have questions as we progress. I'm trying not to jump ahead and get things out of order in the build, but in order to keep it going smoothly, I'll need to ask questions so I'll know what to pick up at the LHS. First of all, did you guys use the plywood control horns that come with it? They seem a little cheesy to me and difficult to replace if needed in the future since they are glued in place. I would think a set of Dubro horns would work better.

Second, Do you use hinge tape for the control surfaces or slit the slabs and insert better hinges?

Kosh
07-29-2006, 03:05 AM
Never had any problem with there control horns but the Dubros have more adjustment and there fairly cheap so use what works for you. I used the CA hinges on mine and there holding up well.
Think of this plane as like a slow stick, Being that its versatile and mods very easy. If you have something that works fine for other builds I would bet it could be transfered to the Pie. I had problems (Due to pilot error) keeping the tail feathers on some rough landings so heres a few pics of what I did to solve it.

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 03:09 AM
Ok, the wing is glued. I choose to round the wing tips for a nicer look and since I'm covering it with Polycrylic, I'll try to shave all the excess weight I can. I wanted about a 2" radius so I found a plastic cup that just happended to be 4" diameter. I aligned it with the leading edge and tip of the wing, marked it with a sharpie and trimmed it with a very sharp razor knife. I'll sand the tips to blend the radius later.

Next, I laid the wing flat with the top side down, lined up the two halves and taped them together with painter's tape. This deviates from the instructions somewhat but I think this will help keep it straight when applying the glue and not let the bottom of the joint seperate when tilting up to set the dihedral. I then flipped the wing over and put two more pieces of painter's tape along the joint to keep epoxy off the top of the wing. (I don't like sanding epoxy on foam).

Next, I placed a can under the wing to spread the joint to make applying the epoxy easier. I happened to be using a can of Static Guard. I found that spraying a light mist of this on your hands and tools prior to cutting the foam makes it fall off and wipe up without it sticking all over everything.

With the wing joint now spread apart, I put 5 minute epoxy in the joint and smoothed it with a putty knife making sure the entire surface was covered. I then weighted one side of the wing and put a cup under the other side raising it up till the angles met. I also checked the dihedral angle with the supplied plywood wing spar. The angle cut on the foam was dead on with the spar angle. Now I'll let the wing dry and go get a beer.

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 03:11 AM
Never had any problem with there control horns but the Dubros have more adjustment and there fairly cheap so use what works for you. I used the CA hinges on mine and there holding up well.
Think of this plane as like a slow stick, Being that its versatile and mods very easy. If you have something that works fine for other builds I would bet it could be transfered to the Pie. I had problems (Due to pilot error) keeping the tail feathers on some rough landings so heres a few pics of what I did to solve it.

Cool! I'll bet that really strengthens the tail. I have extra Dubro horns so I'll use them.

firemanbill
07-29-2006, 04:26 AM
Looking good Tom!:D

I like your idea of using the static guard spray. Never thought of that one.

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 04:37 AM
Looking good Tom!:D

I like your idea of using the static guard spray. Never thought of that one.

Thanks Bill.

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 04:48 AM
Once the center joint has dried, Measure 12 1/4" each way from center in the spar groove and mark a line. Be sure that the spar line runs down the center of the groove. It should be 1/4" from the edge of the groove. Once marked, carefully cut completely through the wing with a sharp razor knife. Take care that the knife is perpindicular to the wing and not running at an angle through it.

Dry fit the spar in the groove to make sure everything lines up right and the slot is long enough. Remove the spar and spread a thin layer of white glue on both sides of the plywood spar making sure to completely cover it with an even layer. Slide the spar in the slot. Check to see that the spar is even with the face of the wing and not sticking up past the groove on either side. Wipe off any excess glue with a damp cloth.

Place pieces of tape across the joint to pull the slot together making contact with both sides of the spar. I found you need to put tape on the top and bottom of the wing. By only placing it on one side of the wing, I found the leading edge wants to pull up. You can check that the wing is flat by placing a straight edge along the bottom of the wing once both sides are taped. Let the glue dry completely before the next step.

firemanbill
07-29-2006, 04:51 AM
Tom I just got in from playing Softball. Tourney time so we had 2 games to play tonight. Won them both so we are in the Championship Game Monday night! Wish us luck.:D

I went out to work on the A-10 just a bit to wind down. I figured I'd sand the wing down a bit to smooth it up after putting the material down... uh uh! Man that stuff is hard as concrete! I may be nuts but i had it by one end banging it on my work bench and nothing! This is really good stuff!

Thanks again for letting me be one of your testers!:D

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 04:58 AM
Hey, CONGRATULATIONS ON THE WINS! Good luck on the championship!

This Polyester material really looks good. It's good to hear your having success with it. I'm really anxious to get to that point with this build. I've been sketching out paint schemes for it already. Did you end up having to fill it with anything other than the polycrylic?

I'm going to try to complete the Magpie with out any covering and weigh it. Then I'll cover it and see what it adds. I can't imagine it's going to be much.

firemanbill
07-29-2006, 05:12 AM
I will probably put a real light coat of lightweight spackle on it before paint but it will not need much.

The added weight will not be a factor. The main wing weighed 72 grams before and 78 after. the tail was 18 g before and 21 after

that is with a coat of wpbu, then cloth then another coat of wpbu

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 06:19 AM
Once your spar joint is dry, you can install the spar strips. This is the roll of white plastic strapping material. Be sure to sand the side you are going to glue to the wing with 200 grit sandpaper. This will help the glue stick. I sanded the side that curls down if that makes sense. If you lay out the strip, it wants to curl up. I placed it so it curls down against the wing. This way it's not trying to curl up away from the wing when you glue it.

Make sure you use one piece all the way across the top of the wing and one piece all the way across the bottom. Don't use two pieces on top or bottom as this will cause a weak spot and defeat the purpose of the spar strips.

I cut mine 1 1/2" shorter than the wing length. This sets each side in 3/4" from the wingtip and will allow me to round the corners of the wing tip later without having to cut or sand the strips. I also cut a small 45 deree angle across the ends of the strips so there isn't a sharp corner to catch and start peeling up later.

Mix enough epoxy to do one strip at a time. If using 5 minute, you may want to do half the top wing and then mix enough to do the other half. If using 15 minute, you should be able to mix enough to do one side of the wing. Instead of placing the epoxy on the strip as it says in the directions, I used a small screwdriver and spread it into the groove on the wing. This way I wasn't having to handle a floppy strip with glue all over it. Make sure you have some clear packing tape ready before you start mixing the epoxy.

Starting 3/4" in from the wing tip, completely cover the groove with a thin layer of epoxy. I stopped at the center of the wing. Lay in the plastic strip starting 3/4" from the wing tip and smooth it into the groove stopping at the center. Then place clear packing tape over the strip smoothing out any bumps as you go. I found it easiest to not place the entire piece of tape down first, but lay it down along the wing as you smooth the strip. This way you get it smooth.

Do the same for the other half of the wing, let it dry and repeat on the bottom.

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 04:37 PM
Well I actually went to bed at 2:00 this morning. Amazing how time flys when you're having fun.

The next step in the instructions is to cover the wing. I'm going to skip this step for now since I'm not using tape and will cover the entire plane with poly fabric once it's all assembled.

The camera mount base is pretty self explanitory in the instructions so I'll only add a couple of tips. Use a sharp knife to remove the small burrs where the lazer cut parts were joined. Dry fit all the pieces prior to glueing. You may need to do a little trimming for a nice snug fit. Mine went together very well. Do not force the pieces.

When tapping in the blind nuts, do not do this on a solid surface like a steel block or the top of your bench vice. This will crush the ends of the nuts and deform the threads. I had to tap mine with a 6-32 tap to clean them out. Place the piece on a block of wood and gently tap them in until seated. Also, orient the prongs on the blind nuts for the landing gear so they are not at the edge of the plywood. They will split it out and make the other piece not fit quite right. You can guess how I know this. The Dremmel tool is my friend. a little touch of the sanding drum and it's good to go.

Follow the instructions on the mount assembly and be sure to orient the direction of the blind nuts as shown. This is important. Lay the pieces on a piece of wax paper and glue as shown with thin CA. I wasn't real comfortable with the thin CA holding all this since it wicked into the wood so much so I put a bead of medium CA down the insides of all the joints as well. Hey, it's just a $300 camera hanging there right? Do not try to fit this in the fuse till it is completely dry as the CA will melt the foam. Lay this aside to dry.

The fuselage is also pretty straight forward. Lay out a new piece of wax paper (so there is no CA on it from the previous steps) and lay out the fuse halves. Do use the wedge shaped pieces that came with the fuse to shim it up straight. You can even tape it to the back of the fuse to help hold it if needed. The back half of the fuselage is tapered down towards the tail on top and flat on the bottom. Make sure you have the taper on the top and not the bottom of the fuselage.

I used Gorilla Glue to join the two halves. I felt this was a crucial part of the structure and it has some filling properties since it expands while drying. If you use this, go sparingly. White glue or epoxy will work also.

I weighted the fuse halves with a couple of glasses so it stayed straight. I then taped the fuse across the top and bottom instead of the sides as shown in the instructions. Since it is laying flat, it just seemed taping the side would make it want to curl up. Taping the top and bottom pull it straight together.

OK, so much for that. It's got to dry for a while so I'm off to the LHS for more stuff. Hope they have what I need.


Edited on 7/31/06 "Do not tap blind nuts in on solid steel surface"

Crash Test Dummy
07-29-2006, 05:06 PM
Looks good Tom, I'll be keeping an eye onthis therad. My buddy just got a camera for his Easy Star and I think this AP video bug is going to bite me hard, OUCH!! The Magpie will be awsome for this purpose. Here is a link to his video. I hope you don't mind that I'm posting it here, it's such a cool video. Lots of low passes.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=raynet11

CTD

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 05:15 PM
Thanks CTD. No problem posting. Anything that draws interest is OK by me. Cool vids. I like the music. It's always interesting to see what type of music people match to their videos.

GTO@2
07-29-2006, 05:18 PM
Thats a cool video. How much does a camera that size cost anyway?


Back to the topic

Looking good!

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 05:33 PM
Thats a cool video. How much does a camera that size cost anyway?


Back to the topic

Looking good!

Depends on the camera. If it was a typical point and shoot that will do movie clips, it can cost anywhere from about $125 up to what ever you want to spend.

aviatordave
07-29-2006, 06:26 PM
I don't get a lot of time in the shop so unfortunately, this might take a little time. Between the job, wife, 4 kids and all the other Honey Dos, RC time is not as much as I would like it to be. .

Tom



Tom,

I'd say you just contradicted yourself! Glad you did a build on this, you already taught me something (static guard works).

On some of your questions, I used the stock control horns, I thought they were flimsy at first, but they are still holding up. Dubro would be nicer with the adjustments they provide. And I just used the 3M packaging tape that you get at walmart for my hinges, it has stuck well and provides no gap for air to get thru between control surfaces. I'm looking forward to the new Polyester non-woven fabric and Minwax Polycrylic water based polyurethane that you will be using.....feel free to put in as many steps as possible for us, I'd like to give that a go.

Dave

Grasshopper
07-29-2006, 08:17 PM
Thanks for the tips Dave! And yes, it seems I did contradict myself. I started on this yesterday evening and worked till 2:00 this morning. Today my wife said she and our little man were going out shopping so I'd have time to work on it. That doesn't happen very often. I usually only get time to work on this stuff after everyone has gone to bed.

I'll certainly post the steps on the covering. I'm anxious to get to that part. Finishing and painting is what I enjoy the most on builds.

Crash Test Dummy
07-29-2006, 11:49 PM
I think he paid about $119.00. I think he got it at Best Buy.

CTD

Warden
07-30-2006, 12:56 AM
Tom, I'm enjoying your build thread. Thanks for doing it!

George

Grasshopper
07-30-2006, 12:58 AM
I appreciate the kind words George. It's been fun doing it. I just hope it helps some others. We'll have to wait to see if the thing actually flys though.

Tom

raynet11
07-30-2006, 02:02 AM
I think he paid about $119.00. I think he got it at Best Buy.

CTD

Thanks for the kind words on the vids :) the camera is an Aiptek IS-DV2 , yep around $120.00 (you can get them at target or best buy) and a few bucks for a 256MB SD card ( I think that was $20.00 ) .

cheers,
Ray

Rugar
07-30-2006, 02:25 AM
Tom,
I was going to start a build thread on my Magpie AP, but you are doing such a great job with detail, I don't think I will bother starting one.
I'm doing a few Mods, so I may just start a thread for Mods only. Or maybe just add my Mods here?

Grasshopper
07-30-2006, 02:40 AM
Thanks Ruger,

Either way you like, feel free to add mods to this thread. It might make it easier for someone in the future to have it all in one thread.

Tom

Grasshopper
07-30-2006, 03:03 AM
Got a little bogged down today. Seems like I just couldn't get a flow going and was jumping from one thing to another.

Continuing on the fuselage, I put the plastic strips down the side of the fuselage. I measured to the dimensions in the manual but the lengths in the manual were a little off so you might want to take a measurement before cutting it. I sanded the strips down before glueing and epoxied them on in the same order as on the wing. Use the scrap foam wedge shape pieces that came with the fuselage to keep it flat. Make sure you don't put a curve in the fuselage. I taped the scrap piece in place to help hold it. You will have 4 pieces of plastic strapping (2 on each side of the fuse). Let them dry then remove the clear packaging tape holding them in place.

Once they are dry, you can put the servo mounts on the side of the fuselage. They go on the left side. Epoxy them in place per the instructions. You will need to measure your servos so you know haw far to space them apart.

Once the servo mounts are dry, its time to mount the camera mount base. Read the instructions carefully before starting. Make sure the CA on the base is dry and then do a dry fit in the fuse. Make any necessary adjustments before glueing.

I found the glueing a little tricky on this piece. I used Elmer's wood glue and clamps. I smeared a fairly generous layer of glue all over the inside of the camera base and slid it on the fuse. You can tape this piece in place but I didn't think it was holding it to the foam very well so I went for the clamps. Be careful not to clamp them too tight because the foam can be easily crushed. They just need to be snug.

Grasshopper
07-30-2006, 03:15 AM
The stick mount shown in the manual won't work for my set up so I needed to change to the firewall mount. Unfortunately the firewall mount supplied wasn't big enough to fit my outrunner mount. This took a little time to measure things and dry fit a modified mount.

Please feel free to jump in here with comments on the mount. I want to make sure it is strong enough.

I cut a piece if 1/8" ply and glued and clamped it to the supplied firewall mount with carpenter's wood glue. I'll need to make a small clearance hole in the foam for the back end of the motor. I have not glued the mount in place yet but will be using Gorilla Glue to secure it. I was waiting till I got some feedback to make sure it's going to work OK.

On the landing gear, I took the advice of Ksoh and Dave to go with larger wheels. I'm using the Dubro 2 1/2" Super lights. The kit was supplied with 1 3/4". In order to use the 2 1/2", I had to change the axle bolts to a #6-32 x 1 1/4" bolt and nuts. I also had to drill out the hole in the aluminum landing gear bracket to 5/32". The picture of the wheels shows the 2 1/2" on the left and the supplied 1 3/4" beside it. This should help considerably taking off on grass.

I'm going to try to put a 1" steerable tail wheel on it but I've got to sketch up a mount first. That will be later.

Kosh
07-30-2006, 05:32 AM
Nice writeup, Your motor mount looks fine and I'm sure it will hold up well.
Try to add a few degrees right thrust when gluing in place, It should have the down thrust in the precut groove already but adjust it to your liking.

Grasshopper
07-30-2006, 05:36 AM
Thanks Kosh. Regarding the right thrust, the way the wood mount is made, it's kind of dificult to add any angle. Do you think it would be OK to add a small washer under the left two screws on the aluminum X mount? That way I can adjust it as needed.

Kosh
07-30-2006, 05:47 AM
That should work, Only needs 2 to 3 degrees off the trust line to make it track correctly at full throttle.

Grasshopper
07-30-2006, 07:20 AM
Alright, things seemed to have moved along a little better now and it's actually starting to look like a plane.

In order to install the stabilizer, rudder and elevator, I deviated from the instructions some what. I glued the elevator halves as the instructions direct. Just make sure when you glue the dowel to the two pieces to check the length of the dowel first and dry fit it. My dowel was about 3/16" too long and needed to be shortened.

I used epoxy for the dowel and held it in place with clear packing tape while it dried. I also weighted the entire assembly so it would be flat.

The instructions then have you glue the vertical stabilizer on the fuselage. This is where I deviated. I found it easier to go ahead an bevel the edges of the vertical stabilizer, rudder and elevator so they can move at least 45 degrees both directions with no interference. I marked a line 1/8" in from the edge to be beveled and a centerline down the trailing edge of the vertical stabilizer. I did the same for the leading edge of the rudder and elevator. I hope all that mades sense. Basically, you want to make straight lines to guide you while you cut a 45 degree bevel on each mating surface.

Once I beveled the edges with an exacto knife, I marked where my hinges would go. I used Sig CA hinges instead of the tape mentioned in the instructions. The elevator has two on each side and the rudder has two hinges above the fuselage and one down at the bottom.

I glued the hinges into the elevator and horizontal stabilizer with foam safe CA leaving about 1/16" gap between the control surfaces. Once this was dry I test fitted the horizontal stab in the fuselage. I measured from the front center of the wing saddle to the corner of the horizontal stab on each side to make sure they were equal. Once I had it squared up, I marked down each side of the fuselage on the horizontal stab with a pen for realigning when glueing.

Next, I made sure the fuselage was square with the work surface by using a combination square and measured from the counter to the bottom of the horizontal stab on each side. This is to make sure the horizontal stab isn't at an angle to the fuse. I had to lightly sand out some foam on each side of the slot in the fuse to get the tail level. Once I was sure it was square and level, I removed the stab and put a thin layer of epoxy on the upper and lower surfaces inside the slot on the fuse, slid the horizontal stab in, lined up the markes on the stab and weighted it till it dried.

Now I measured and marked the rudder and vertical stab for the CA hinges. I glued them in place with foam safe CA. The bottom hinge was glued into the rudder and will be glued into the fuse when I attach the vertical stab.

I checked the alignment of the vertical stab and made a slot in the bottom of the fuselage for the bottom rudder hinge. I smeared a layer of epoxy on the vertical stab, put 3 small drops of foam safe CA on each side of the bottom rudder hinge and slid it in the slot in the fuselage. I used T pins to hold the vertical stab in place till it dried. Check that the vertical stab it straight up and down and adjust if necessary before the epoxy sets.

While I had some epoxy mixed, I went ahead and assembled the camera cradle and let dry. I skipped the part on attaching the control horns. I will be using Dubro 1/2A control horns instead of the plywood horns supplied. I'll install the horns once the plane is covered.

aviatordave
07-30-2006, 04:34 PM
Looking like a plane now!

I wasnt sure of the horizontal stab when I built mine (seemed to flex easily) so I added a strip of carbon fiber at the trailing edge, seems to have beefed it up with no weight gain.

Keep er up, you are getting enough sleep right? :p

Dave

Grasshopper
07-30-2006, 04:56 PM
Thanks Dave!

I find sleep to be highly over rated. I tried it once back in 87 and it didn't work out.

As far as the horizontal stab, it will be covered with the poly cloth and WBPU so it should stiffen up pretty well.

Thanks for the input.

Tom

Grasshopper
07-31-2006, 01:27 AM
Ok, just getting started again today and I have a couple of questions.

1. For those of you that have a Magpie, did you use the wire push rods with heat shrink that came with it or did you use a threaded pushrod with clevises so you have some adjustment?

2. What type of screws do I use to screw the outrunner X mount to the 1/8" ply firewall? Do you use small wood or sheet metal screws or a machine screw with nuts behind it? I'm not sure I have enough room behind for nuts.

Thanks,

Tom

Kosh
07-31-2006, 01:43 AM
I used the wire push rods with Z a bend on 1 end and the Dubro connector on the other. I think the clevis is really the way to go as it just gives a better fit. I also used the small wood screws on the motor mount. Your 1/8" ply should hold up just as well on the same.

Grasshopper
07-31-2006, 01:48 AM
Thanks a lot Kosh! Man I love this forum. Where else can you get expert advice as you build virtually any time of day? You guys are the best!

Tom

Grasshopper
07-31-2006, 03:37 AM
I got a little bit done this evening. I finished installing the servos. One change I made was to cut a small channel off to one side of each servo for the wires to exit the servo pocket. I didn't like the idea of bending the wires up at 90 degrees to come back out of the hole. I did make sure they were off to the side so the servo mount screw wouldn't cut into the wires.

I decided not to use the pushrod wires that came with the kit since there would be no adjustment other than the trim buttons on the TX. I went with two clevices on threaded rods with a Z bend at the servo arm. The photo shows the elevator slightly down. That will be adjusted out.

I soldered all the connectors on the motor leads, and ESC and powered everything up. After binding the DX6 receiver to the TX, I checked out the system and everything seems to be A OK.

I'm still not used to building something that has all the components exposed and wires running all over the outside but I keep reminding myself this plane is built for function and not for esthetics.

I cut a notch in the top of the receiver opening in the fuselage to give more clearance for the receiver and wires. It is 1/4" deep by 1 1/2" long. This will give additional room to velcro the DX6 receiver in place and not have the wires making sharp corners coming out.

I finished the motor mount and glued it in place with Gorilla Glue. Thanks to Kosh, I got some good advice (very quickly I might add) on what fasteners to use on the outrunner X mount.

Other than putting the finish on it and installing the electronics, I've pretty much finished going through the build portion of the instructions. Of course I'll still have to go through all the final set up and control throws. While things were drying, I started working on the finish of the wing. I can now start on finishing the fuselage too.

As I mentioned earlier, I will be using a Polyester non-woven fabric with Minwax Polycrylic water based polyurethane. The cloth is manufactured by the company I work for and is used in the furniture and bedding industry. We use thousands of yards of this in a heavier weight in our manufacturing facilities. After looking at this on our production lines, it finally dawned on me that a really light weight version might work for covering foam. I'll be using a 1/2 oz. weight white fabric. This will be the first time I've used it, but several of the guys on this forum are trying it out and so far results are positive.

To start the finish, I sanded the wing tips to blend in the radius and knocked down the rough surface with 200 grit paper. I then mixed some DAP Fast and Final light weight spackle with a small amount of water to get a thin toothpaste like consistency. I spread it evenly all over the wing working it into the pores and inperfections.

I wasn't too concerned about getting too much on the wingtips as you see in the picture as most of it will be sanded off. The reason I mixed it with water was to thin it down and make it easier to spread and fill the pores. If used straight out of the can, it is too stiff to spread around easily and dries too quickly. I used an old hotel door key card to spread it and scraped off most of the excess before it started setting up. This mixture dries pretty quick and sands off very easily.

The next step will be to finish sand the entire plane and start applying the polyester fabric with WBPU. I'll take several photos and weigh the bare airframe before the fabric is applied and after to see what the weight increase is.

Grasshopper
08-02-2006, 02:50 AM
OK, I've learned something new on my first foam build.......


I HATE SANDING FOAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sanding foam is like sanding latex house paint. Just when you think you've got it smooth, it rolls up a little ball of foam or a little chunk out of an edge. Where's my balsa wood?


Well I feel better now. Continuing on with the build, I rough sanded the fuselage to knock off the high spots and round all the edges so it doesn't look like a giant slab of foam. Oh wait....it is a giant slab of foam. I also sanded the light weight spackle off the wing. I'm going to start practicing with the poly fabric and WBPU. I spent some time last night drawing out templates for the paint pattern on the wings and fuse. Now I just have to decide on the colors.

I'm off to the kitchen counter since it's still like 400 degrees in the garage.

Grasshopper
08-06-2006, 04:55 AM
Well, I finally got back on the Magpie this week. After filling the wing and fuselage with thinned down light weight spackle, I finished sanded it and started covering the wing. I used the polyester fabric mentioned in the posts above and put two coats of WBPU on it. I found the material to lay down very well and smoothed out nicely. It did seem to "Fuzz" up a bit when I sanded the first coat of WBPU.

After sanding it with 400 grit sandpaper, I put a second coat on the wing. On the second coat, I added some baby powder to help fill the pores a little. Once the second coat dried, I sanded it again and started the painting. I decided to go with a swirl design that I drew out on paper and cut patterns.

I started to airbrush it but it was going to take more time to mask it all off then to paint it so I free handed it with a brush. The pictures below have the finished coats of pearl white and pearlized gold. The blue is the first coat of metallic Ice Blue. I'm using Folk Art acrylic craft paints.

I never realized how hard it is to get foam to be smooth as glass. Is it possible without putting 10 coats of something on it, or am I just being to particular? I'm used to my old balsa kits where I could get the paint slick as snot. I decided to comprimise a little on the finish and remember the purpose of this plane is to take pictures and not for competition.

A friend of mine dropped off a new Nikon Coolpix L3 for me to try in this so that's what I'll be starting with. I've decided not to add a steerable tail wheel in order to keep a little more weight off. I'll post some weights once I've finished painting it.

It's getting close now. I'll be glad when I can get all this stuff out of the kitchen and dining room. I'm sure my wife will be even more happy about it.

Grasshopper
08-08-2006, 02:44 AM
I think Maggie is finished. Other than a few minor touch ups, I think she's ready for her maiden.

I got the camera mounted this weekend and ended up mounting the servo on top of the camera with some 3M automotive tape. This is the stuff they use to stick trim on doors and fenders. It's really tough stuff. I shortened the servo arm so it doesn't try to push the shutter button all the way through the camera. So far the tests in the house work really well. I hooked the servo to the rudder stick so it activates when you push the rudder to the left. I put the rudder on the aileron stick so all my controls are on the right stick. Throttle and camera are on the left stick.

I temporarilly placed all the electronics, mounted the wing and laid the battery on top of the wing to find the CG. I went by the instructions and put the CG 1/4" behind the wing spar. It is very slightly nose heavy. The battery can be adjusted forward and backwards as needed. Using a 3S 2100 Common Sense battery, this put the front of the battery 3 1/4" back from the front wing mount dowel on the right side under the wing. I epoxied some velcro straps across the top of the fuse and down the side to hold the battery against the fuse. I also put a piece of 1 1/2" long velcro piece on the battery and fuse to keep it from sliding forwards or backwards.

The Spektrum receiver is mounted in the extra notch in the fuse opening. This gave me a little more room for the wires to connect without bending them too sharply. All wires are then held in place with clear packing tape. The ESC is mounted with velcro to the left side under the leading edge of the wing. The motor has two washers under the left screws to add a couple degrees of right thrust.

The camera is mounted to the camera tray using the supplied 1/4-20 screw in the tripod mount. I fed the camera wrist strap through the camera bay and around to the right front wing mount dowel placed under the rubber bands. This is just a safety catch and wrapping it to the opposite side keeps the strap from getting in front of the lens.

I'll probably leave the cutout open in the fuse where the receiver is just to help keep things cool. The instructions say to cover the opening with wing tape, but I'd rather not have to pull it off whenever I need to get to the receiver.

The control throws were set to the manufacturer's instructions.

So when it was all said and done, Here's the specs:

2908-10 motor
TP 30A Gen 2 ESC
3S 2100mAh 15C Common Sense Lipo
APC 9x6E prop (this may still change)
Spektrum DX6 system
3 ea. TP SG90 servos (rudder, elevator and camera)
Nikon Coolpix L3 5 mega pixel camera 3x optical with movie clips @ 30 fps.
AUW: 39 oz. (this includes camera and batteries)
WOT: 30 amps (border line but shouldn't need WOT for photos)
320 watts
If my calculations are right, that's 131.2 watts per pound. I think it should have enough power but correct me if I'm wrong.

So I think I'm done here. I would appreciate any comments and especially any concerns about anything. If I've left something out or you have questions, feel free to ask.

Hopefully I'll get to maiden it this weekend. I'll try to get pictures and video. Wish me luck and thanks to everyone for your help along the way. I couldn't have done it without you guys!

Tom

P.S. I still need to check the lateral balance. Would I do this with the plane inverted? It just wants to roll over to which ever side you tip it to when it's upright.

firemanbill
08-08-2006, 03:11 AM
Tom, very nice looking and good info on the build. Makes me want to do one now.;) I love your paint scheme!

Grasshopper
08-08-2006, 03:16 AM
Thanks Bill. I guess I should have taken some pics of the bottom. The underside of the wing is solid blue to help keep me oriented.

firemanbill
08-08-2006, 03:17 AM
Smart move... You know until I started doing this hobby almost 2 years ago now I always wondered why they did that... I figured out real quick how easy it is to get disoriented

now I know!:D

Kosh
08-08-2006, 04:38 AM
Very nice looking plane Tom and great thread. Sure it will help out more than a few in the future here. Thanks

Grasshopper
08-08-2006, 04:46 AM
Thanks Kosh,

Now we'll see if she actually flys. I think I'm going to take a tip from you and add the bamboo struts from the horizontal stab to the vertical. I didn't cover the fuse or tail with fabric to save weight and the horizontal stab seems a little floppy to me.

Ira
08-08-2006, 06:21 AM
Hey Grasshopper, Only change I would give a whirl is the prop (try out a 9X4.5). Less pitch will shorten TO run. I just got my pie ready to fly again. Going to use it to teach my son in law to fly . If he is any good at it he can use the Pie to help me with easy shots durring peak demand. Got to say my Pie looks like even more of a plane jane after seeing yours :) How do you keep your shop so clean? It looks like an O.R. Do you have Martha Stewart helping you or what??? :)

Warden
08-08-2006, 11:45 AM
Great thread, Tom! Thanks for sharing it with us. Good luck on the maiden!

Grasshopper
08-08-2006, 01:15 PM
Thanks for the compliment Warden.

Ira, I'll look for the 9x4.5 prop. As far as Martha Stewart helping, it's not my shop. I built the whole thing on our kitchen counter. It was 104 degrees here yesterday and hasn't been below 99 during the days for the last two weeks. My much messier shop is too hot to work in.

I think my wife is the happiest this is done. Now she can have her kitchen back. She's been an angel through all this.

Good luck with the training for your son-in-law.

Tom

Don E
08-08-2006, 02:22 PM
Wow! Great looking bird. I like those colors. I used white, gold, and a darker blue than you did on mine(econokote). Just didn't lay it down quite as nice as yours. As far as power, mine weighs about 35 oz, and I'm only using 130W (himax 2812-8something). swinging an apc 11x5.5E. Loaded it climbs good enough to suit me. Without the camera and a little smaller battery it'll hang on the prop. You should be really happy with yours. Good luck on the maden.

Don

Grasshopper
08-08-2006, 02:28 PM
Thanks Don! Actually, the blue on mine is darker than the photos show. For some reason they kept coming out light. It's a metallic royal blue. Sounds like we had the same thing in mind. Do you have any pictures of yours?

aviatordave
08-08-2006, 02:45 PM
How do you think the LG will hold up at 39 oz? Mine weighed 34 oz and I had problems with it flexing more than it should even with nice graceful landings (then again I may have had an exceptional LG that was not right)

anyways, I replaced mine with a CF one from Hobby Lobby.

BTW - excellent job on the plane, you work fast and give alot of attention to detail. This will help out alot of the people considering going down this avenue of our hobby. - looking forward to some pictures and video

Dave

Grasshopper
08-08-2006, 05:32 PM
Thanks a lot Dave. I was a little concerned about the LG too. It seemed to want to spread apart just sitting on the floor. I reshaped them slightly to have the wheels sit straight up instead of spread out like it had been pancaked in. I'll keep an eye on them and might very well change to the carbon fiber gear. What size did you use?

Don E
08-08-2006, 05:48 PM
Thanks Don! Actually, the blue on mine is darker than the photos show. For some reason they kept coming out light. It's a metallic royal blue. Sounds like we had the same thing in mind. Do you have any pictures of yours?

Yea, I've got some. Not sure where they are right now. I'll dig them up or take some new ones. I took some new ones, I think there here now.

I'll second the weak landing gear thing. I did bend mine landing on it's maden flight, but it was tail heavy and in too much wind:o so it was my fault anyway. After thinking about it, the gear did bend instead of tearing out of the fuse so maybe thats a good thing. When I "straightened" the gear, I bent it into a "n" shape rather than the inverted "v" that it was in and it's still on there. Boy, is it springy though. I've wondered if carbon gear would be better.

Don

aviatordave
08-08-2006, 05:51 PM
I used the 8" for $17.90

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/landinggear.htm

there are others out there, you might be able to find a better deal. With those you wont have any issues with LG again unless you come in to the ground at 50 mph :p

Dave

Here is what I did with mine (magpie mod (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7360))

a little versatility, I still need to tweak a few things on it yet.

Ira
08-08-2006, 07:22 PM
I use the same carbon gear as Dave, HL part#PEL003 on the Pie and Shot Getter. Two have actualy broken on the Getter but under conditions that would be termed missuse and abuse. They should last forever on the Pie. The stock Pie gear tweaks after all but the most gentle landings even without the camera on board. For AP and landings in the rough the carbon is almost a must have.

Grasshopper
08-09-2006, 12:40 AM
Yea, I've got some. Not sure where they are right now. I'll dig them up or take some new ones. I took some new ones, I think there here now.

I'll second the weak landing gear thing. I did bend mine landing on it's maden flight, but it was tail heavy and in too much wind:o so it was my fault anyway. After thinking about it, the gear did bend instead of tearing out of the fuse so maybe thats a good thing. When I "straightened" the gear, I bent it into a "n" shape rather than the inverted "v" that it was in and it's still on there. Boy, is it springy though. I've wondered if carbon gear would be better.

Don

Great looking plane Don. I almost used the same pattern but then I went all squirrely with the paint brushes.

I used the 8" for $17.90

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/landinggear.htm

there are others out there, you might be able to find a better deal. With those you wont have any issues with LG again unless you come in to the ground at 50 mph :p

Dave

Here is what I did with mine (magpie mod (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7360))

a little versatility, I still need to tweak a few things on it yet.

Thanks Dave. I'm going to look into the CF gear. Looks like it's a "Must have"

I use the same carbon gear as Dave, HL part#PEL003 on the Pie and Shot Getter. Two have actualy broken on the Getter but under conditions that would be termed missuse and abuse. They should last forever on the Pie. The stock Pie gear tweaks after all but the most gentle landings even without the camera on board. For AP and landings in the rough the carbon is almost a must have.

Thanks Ira. Looks like its a consensus on the gear huh?

Ira
08-09-2006, 01:53 AM
So long as were talking about gear. Took the newly refurbushed Magpie out for a test flight this evening. Wnat it all trimmed out before teaching the son in law to fly. The plane flew wonderfully with a dummey chunk O lead camera load (AUW about 39oz). Set up for a landing on a slightly bumpy gravel road and put her down. Not perfect but not too bad. The mains tore right off!!! The whole lite ply gear mounting plate came off. The Epoxy held but the ply did not. Almost all of my work involves landings on rough ground so the Pie will need to be beefed up in this area. Just glad the son in law was not there to see the old man break "his" plane ;)

Grasshopper
08-09-2006, 02:01 AM
So long as were talking about gear. Took the newly refurbushed Magpie out for a test flight this evening. Wnat it all trimmed out before teaching the son in law to fly. The plane flew wonderfully with a dummey chunk O lead camera load (AUW about 39oz). Set up for a landing on a slightly bumpy gravel road and put her down. Not perfect but not too bad. The mains tore right off!!! The whole lite ply gear mounting plate came off. The Epoxy held but the ply did not. Almost all of my work involves landings on rough ground so the Pie will need to be beefed up in this area. Just glad the son in law was not there to see the old man break "his" plane ;)

Sorry to hear that Ira. Now you guys have me worried about the gear. Fortunately I'll be taking off a paved runway for its maiden, but the majority of the time it will be off grass. I didn't use epoxy on the plywood structure. I used medium CA like the instructions said. Now I'm really concerned! I can generally set them down pretty soft but not always.

I was going to make a "Dummy" camera tomorrow to use on the maiden. It would be bad enough to crash the plane let alone slam a brand new camera in the ground too. My plane ended up being 39 ounces too. Glad to hear yours flew well at that weight.

Tom

Kosh
08-09-2006, 02:11 AM
Happens to the best of us, I flipped mine last night on landing breaking my first prop on the plane. I also have to agree the gear is a little flimsy but its also saved my bacon a few times because they give. The 2 1/2 inch foam wheels suck up some energy and the gear will just been to absorb the rest by bending on a hard landing most of the time. I'm sure my next one will have C/F gear just because it looks cool ... lol

Ira
08-09-2006, 02:16 AM
Hey Tom, The damage should be easy to repair. In this area on the Shot Getter I used banding similar to the type on the Pie's wing only smaller. This is wrapped across the bottom of the LG plate and up each side a couple inches. I did this at both the frt and rear of the plate and fastened it to the ply with epoxy. The Getter is a much heavyer bird and conditions often require that the landings realy hammer the gear. I've actualy broken two carbon ones without hurting the airframe. This is how the Pie will be repaired and it would be a quick retrofit. The smaller banding can be had for free at any supermarket produce dept. Just ask someone working there for the banding cut from a bananana box, they will look at you funny and say sure and go to the back and get it for you possably while scratching their head.

Ira
08-09-2006, 02:24 AM
Thanks for the boost fellas but nothing can bring me down today. Just became a grandpa for the first time :) :) :) I know it's off topic but here is a pic of little Aubry. She was born at 6:00am 7lbs 1oz. If this off topic pic bothers anyone they must have a heart of ice ;)

Grasshopper
08-09-2006, 02:29 AM
Thanks for the boost fellas but nothing can bring me down today. Just became a grandpa for the first time :) :) :) I know it's off topic but here is a pic of little Aubry. She was born at 6:00am 7lbs 1oz. If this off topic pic bothers anyone they must have a heart of ice ;)

CONGRATULATIONS Ira!!!!!!!!! Yeah, it's hard to top that for the day. You must be on cloud 9. Enjoy your time with her because they grow up fast. My oldest daughter is leaving for the University of South Carolina next week. I'm gonna miss that little squirt.

Ira
08-09-2006, 02:43 AM
No problem there. She will give our 2 year old (Aubry's aunti) someone to play with. LOL

Ira
08-09-2006, 02:49 AM
Back on track. The Son in Law (Aubry's dad) is very interested in AP and eager to learn to fly RC. I'm hoping to train him on the Magpie so he can help me out durring peak demand in the spring. Can't think of a better trainer than the Pie. The only detraction is the slightly squirley TO run but it's not realy all that bad. Just enough to keep a student on his toes.

Grasshopper
08-09-2006, 03:17 AM
What do you mean by "Peak Demand"?

Ira
08-09-2006, 04:32 AM
I am have people screaming for AP and am working like a dog to keep up, and this is the slow season! I just started "officialy" doing business 5 weeks ago and am swamped. Peak season (peak demand) should be late spring early summer.

Kosh
08-09-2006, 04:54 AM
Theres only a 4 to 6 week season here when everything is in bloom and they all want pics at the same time when there yard looks the best. Its kinda a feast or famine thing as it rains so much in the winter here.

Grasshopper
08-09-2006, 05:01 AM
Theres only a 4 to 6 week season here when everything is in bloom and they all want pics at the same time when there yard looks the best. Its kinda a feast or famine thing as it rains so much in the winter here.


I didn't realize there was such a demand for this. I haven't even flown mine yet and I already have people asking what I would charge to take pics for them.

Ira
08-09-2006, 06:35 AM
My only $00.2 worth is to get VERY good at flying that Pie before you start taking up those offers and always saftey first even if it means walking away from money.

Kosh
08-09-2006, 07:20 AM
At close to 40 ounces its no parkflyer and needs fairly good sized landing zone until your use to it. It glides power off like a dream and is fairly easy just to circle it around for pinpoint landings. Because of the weight the planes have much longer roll out and 40' to 50' after touchdown is not uncommon. Even with a camera onboard the plane will withstand loops and some high G stuff I wouldn't try with most others. (Don't ask how I know this, D'oh) :rolleyes:

Grasshopper
08-09-2006, 03:11 PM
My only $00.2 worth is to get VERY good at flying that Pie before you start taking up those offers and always saftey first even if it means walking away from money.

I agree. I have a full time job now so I'm not in this for the money. I really just like flying RC and photography. This just gave me a way to combine my two expensive hobbies into one really expensive one.

Ira
08-09-2006, 03:50 PM
That is exactly how it started for me, but it's starting to look like the job may just be in the way. The real cool part is that to the Boss (wife) the planes and cameras are not Toys at all anymore :)

Ira
08-09-2006, 03:55 PM
Back to the Pie though. I have a soft spot for this plane, it's hard not too love a plane that flys so well and has so few bad habits. If there is one grip it is that for pro work it is right on the edge of being overloaded. On the other hand that can actualy help if you must fly when the wind is blowing. Kosh I saw that hair raising vid!

Ira
08-10-2006, 11:12 PM
Here is the fix. Only rub is that if the gear ever tears off again half the airframe is going with it!

JediFlyer
08-10-2006, 11:46 PM
Grasshopper..is this the motor you went with?
http://slofly.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=1045
What prop did you end up with? Which one was best....I am going to be taking up a Nikon 7900....I have a stock EZ* and everything fits and balances, but she sure feels HEAVY and I'm afraid to take her up like that with an expensive camera...plus I have been wanting a PIE and need an excuse to buy a new plane :):D

I plan on using NIMH batteries.

Rugar
08-11-2006, 03:10 AM
I am going to be taking up a Nikon 7900....I have a stock EZ* and everything fits and balances, but she sure feels HEAVY and I'm afraid to take her up like that with an expensive camera...

Weigh the camera and add weight to the plane that equals the camera's weight to see how she flys.

Grasshopper
08-11-2006, 03:28 AM
Grasshopper..is this the motor you went with?
http://slofly.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=1045
What prop did you end up with? Which one was best....I am going to be taking up a Nikon 7900....I have a stock EZ* and everything fits and balances, but she sure feels HEAVY and I'm afraid to take her up like that with an expensive camera...plus I have been wanting a PIE and need an excuse to buy a new plane :):D

I plan on using NIMH batteries.

Hi Jedi,

This is the motor I went with. Great service and fast shipping.
https://st86.startlogic.com/~rcepower/osCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=38&osCsid=0c58681e1c01b8e3faa853a32abb2fd9

Right now I have an APC 9x6E prop with a 3S 2100 15C Common Sense Lipo and 30 amp ESC. It's a little border line on drawing too many amps (30 at WOT) so I'll probably try a lesser pitch prop. I doubt there will be any problems with it since I doubt I will ever need WOT. Its getting about 132 watts per lb. right now. The AUW is 39 oz. including camera.

Rugar is exactly right about getting the same weight as the camera to try first. I weighed my camera with batteries, SD card and the servo that actuates it then I made a nylon block the same dimensions and the exact same weight. The nylon block will go up on the maiden this weekend, not the camera.

Ira
08-11-2006, 05:48 AM
Hey Grasshopper, As our Pies are the same weight I'm extra interested in your impressions of the plane. Only caution I would toss out is the TO run. As the Pie gets light on the wheels and just starts to actualy fly there is a short period where it can get just a tad squirley. Just focus on keeping it straight down the runway and as speed builds a little more it smooths right out and you can start to climb out in ernest. From that point on she is all easy. I like this plane a lot and mine is butt ugly next to yours :D

Grasshopper
08-11-2006, 12:29 PM
Thanks for the tips ira. Is any Pie really pretty? I'm hoping to maiden mine tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it goes.

Ira
08-12-2006, 04:28 AM
Took the pie out this evening to test the repair. Did a bunch of touch and goes and slammed a few just to be sure. No problem. About half were no payload and half with the "chunk o Lead" dummy load. The usual method is to climb out, cut power, and glide the approach adding power if needed to stretch it out. The nice thing is with a 2100mah lipo this can be done for as long as 45 min if you don't horse it much. After the first few it actualy becomes a kind of zen like relaxation thing. The Pie is ready for the Son in Law. Please everyone say a short prayer for it ;)

Grasshopper
08-12-2006, 04:36 AM
Took the pie out this evening to test the repair. Did a bunch of touch and goes and slammed a few just to be sure. No problem. About half were no payload and half with the "chunk o Lead" dummy load. The usual method is to climb out, cut power, and glide the approach adding power if needed to stretch it out. The nice thing is with a 2100mah lipo this can be done for as long as 45 min if you don't horse it much. After the first few it actualy becomes a kind of zen like relaxation thing. The Pie is ready for the Son in Law. Please everyone say a short prayer for it ;)

Good luck with the son in law Ira. It's been interesting reading your tips and suggestions. I just finished going over mine for the 20th time for pre flight. Please also keep you fingers crossed for me. It looks like the weather is going to be perfect in the morning for the maiden and it's first photos. The first pack will be with the dummy block and to see how she flys. After that, smile and say cheese, it's picture time! I'm really anxious to try her out. A buddy of mine is going along to video and photograph it. I hope it's not a jinx.

Rugar
08-12-2006, 05:26 AM
Good luck with the maiden flight in the morning Tom. I just haven't had any time to work on mine any more. Hopefully next week will allow me some more build time.

firemanbill
08-12-2006, 05:39 AM
Yeah, Good Luck Tom!:D

(Don't think too much about the Mustang). Keep focused and you'll be fine. It sounds like you have really done your homework and prepared her well so hopefully all will go well.

Ira
08-12-2006, 06:10 AM
Hey G.H., Best of luck but I doubt you'll need it. The Pie almost flys itself. Just fly it up to about 300 ft., set power at about 25% and adjust trims as needed then cut power. If there is any porpoising tendency while gliding she is nose heavy and will take some inputs to land smoothly. If not then she will be a piece of cake (or should I say pie) to land nice and easy. Can't wait to hear about that first taste of Pie!!

Grasshopper
08-12-2006, 01:11 PM
Thanks a lot Guys. I'm headed out now. Kind of hard not to think about the Mustang Bill. I got her picked up and delivered to my mechanic late yesterday afternoon. He was amazed at how good of shape it was in.

Well I'm outa here to go fly. Hopefully I'll get some video and figure out how to attach it to a post.

Tom

JediFlyer
08-12-2006, 11:35 PM
I am trying to figure out just what components I need as far as the engine....Is there a way to plug in the engine you use Grasshopper in MotoCalc so I can see what is going on....I have NO idea what to run with my NIMH packs on this plane with regard to prop and proper ESC's...I like you engine choice though and that is what I am lookin at getting

Ira
08-13-2006, 02:26 AM
Hey Jedi, The NIMH's should work ok W/O camera but with a camera on board will most likly be too heavy for the Pie $00.2

JediFlyer
08-13-2006, 02:45 AM
Not good...NOT GOOD...I dont have the cash to flash for all new LiPos and chargers :(

Grasshopper
08-13-2006, 03:10 AM
This morning turned out to be perfect for Maggie's maiden flight. Checked, double checked and tripple checked everything, fired her up and let her rip! Boy oh Boy did it ever have enough power. She was off the ground in about 12 to 15' and climbed out great. It had a little roll to the right but not bad at all. Once up to altitude (very quickly I might add) I had to make some minor right and down trim.

I found that she would cruise around beautifully at 1/8 to 1/4 throttle. WOT would let her go vertical for a pretty good distance. I flew her around for a while then made some landing approaches. You guys were right, these things float forever. They also land very smoothly. This is probably the smoothest flying plane I have. When she came in for a landing, she sat down very softly and rolled to a stop. It does take considerably more room to land than to take off.

I took the "Dummy camera" off and put on the real one and off she went again. I'm in awe at the power this thing has. I think I'll prop it down to an APC 9045E from the APC 9060E that's on it now so it will pull the amp draw down a little more. I think this thing will fly forever at 1/4 throttle. I got it up several hundred feet and cut the throttle. It just floats around.

Taking pictures was another story. That's going to take a little practice but I did get a fairly good video and a couple decent snapshots. Nothing like what you guys are showing but pretty neat for the first try. I used to think there would be nothing more fun than flying my warbirds, but I think this could be very addictive.

Again, I've got to give thanks to all you guys for helping. There's no doubt in my mind that it wouldn't have been as smooth without all your input. THANK YOU!

Here's a few pictures of it in flight that a buddy of mine took. I especially like the moon shot.

Tom

Don E
08-13-2006, 03:36 AM
snip.. Boy did it ever have enough power. She was off the ground in about 12 to 15' and climbed out great...snip

Congratulations, and welcome to the addiction. I'm pleased it went so well, and not suprised. Might have to up the motor in mine a little.

Let's see some of those pictures from the plane When you get a chance?

Don

firemanbill
08-13-2006, 03:38 AM
Congrats on the maiden Tom!:D Of course now I have to get one... lol

I like your Moon shot as well, very cool! I am looking forward to seeing some of your AP now!:)

Grasshopper
08-13-2006, 03:52 AM
Thanks again guys.

Bill, you gotta get one of these! I can't wait to get it out again.

Here's some pics from the plane. The first one is me and my buddy. The others, I've got to practice getting the horizon horizontal.

firemanbill
08-13-2006, 04:01 AM
Nice pics too...:D I may just have to do that, get one that is, gotta get the A-10 done first though.

Ira
08-13-2006, 04:14 AM
Ya !Ya ya !!! Thats what were talkin about!!! The only sad part is that you will soon come to realize you are a hopeless AP junkie :D :D :D

Ira
08-13-2006, 04:16 AM
Oh I forgot to ask if she did that slight dance just as she was getting off the ground?

Grasshopper
08-13-2006, 04:37 AM
Oh I forgot to ask if she did that slight dance just as she was getting off the ground?


I didn't notice one but maybe I was just too pre occupied worrying if it was going to fly at all. What is the dance?

Grasshopper
08-13-2006, 05:13 AM
Hey G.H., Best of luck but I doubt you'll need it. The Pie almost flys itself. Just fly it up to about 300 ft., set power at about 25% and adjust trims as needed then cut power. If there is any porpoising tendency while gliding she is nose heavy and will take some inputs to land smoothly. If not then she will be a piece of cake (or should I say pie) to land nice and easy. Can't wait to hear about that first taste of Pie!!

Hey Ira,

I did notice she wanted to climb pretty fast whenever power was applied. Almost a porpoise. I thought maybe the the back of the wing might need raised up slightly to make it a little more flat. I might try sliding the battery back a little at a time to shift the CG back and see if that's what's causing it.

Any suggestions?

Ira
08-13-2006, 05:27 AM
If that happens when a modest amount of power is added then a pinch more down thrust is needed. On an over powered Pie this is normal at high power settings. If the porpoising happens when floating power off she is nose heavy. Getting it dialed in just right can be mix of both but it sounds like you are just about there. Congratulations!!!!! G.H.

Grasshopper
08-13-2006, 05:33 AM
Thanks Ira. It glides very well with the power off so the CG must be about right. I might add a little more down thrust and try it. Right now it's set at whatever the angle is that comes in the kit. I did add a little right thrust by putting two small washers under the left side of the motor mount.s

Kosh
08-13-2006, 05:43 AM
Congrats Grasshopper and well done, Its hard to see why most love this plane until you really fly one yourself. I take the camera off and have more fun with the Pie than should be legal throwing it around the sky.
Your plane looks great and I think its going to be a blast for along time to come. Doug Binder (Plane Designer) says he rated the Pie for 15mph winds and was being conservative with that call. The dance Ira is talking about has scared the heck out of me more than a few times. It comes right after take off when you try and correct something at close to full power. It will wiggle around on you when you least want it. Its easy to over correct at this point but nothing that has caused me a crash so far thankfully. As long as your aware of it you shouldn't have any problems.

Grasshopper
08-13-2006, 05:49 AM
Thanks Kosh,

I set the controls pretty conservative on the dual rates. After flying it this morning, I don't think I'll need to go to 100% on the controls. It has plenty of control and I figured it would help keep me from over controlling as you mentioned.

Ira
08-13-2006, 05:13 PM
Kosh nailed it. If CG and thrust angle are off the Pie can be very twitchy at the point of rotation. Looks like you were extra carefull with set up though and that always pays off. I too have found the Pie calls for very little control throw at low speeds compaired to a lot of other planes. To much just makes it squirley. Can'y wait to see more pic's!!

JediFlyer
08-14-2006, 02:22 AM
Right now I have an APC 9x6E prop with a 3S 2100 15C Common Sense Lipo and 30 amp ESC. It's a little border line on drawing too many amps (30 at WOT) so I'll probably try a lesser pitch prop. I doubt there will be any problems with it since I doubt I will ever need WOT. Its getting about 132 watts per lb. right now. The AUW is 39 oz. including camera.


How do you figure all of that out...amps and stuff...I am a NOOoob and I know it...I can fly...I can build, but the battery stuff is jiberish to me right now

Grasshopper
08-14-2006, 03:15 AM
How do you figure all of that out...amps and stuff...I am a NOOoob and I know it...I can fly...I can build, but the battery stuff is jiberish to me right now

Do you have a watt meter? Without one, unless you are flying all RTFs, you're really flying by the seat of your pants. That is if you're lucky enough to fly.

aviatordave
08-16-2006, 03:43 AM
Wow Tom,

I'm not sure why, but I missed your post (my bad!) Gald to see you got it up in the air and got some good shots. I hope you have alot of fun with that AP bird. Post often!

Dave

Grasshopper
08-16-2006, 03:57 AM
Wow Tom,

I'm not sure why, but I missed your post (my bad!) Gald to see you got it up in the air and got some good shots. I hope you have alot of fun with that AP bird. Post often!

Dave

Thanks Dave!!

I can't wait to get her up again. Unfortunately I'm traveling this week and will be driving my daughter to South Carolina this weekend for college (1100 miles away, sniff, sniff).

Maybe next week I'll get to fly again.

aviatordave
08-16-2006, 04:06 AM
Well Tom.....

There might be a little extra room to take the magpie with you...

You could get some shots of Myrtle Beach.......

Have fun on your trip!

Dave

<edit...Wow your thread got over 1000 hits already. Whats the next build going to be?>

Grasshopper
08-16-2006, 04:16 AM
Well Tom.....

There might be a little extra room to take the magpie with you...

You could get some shots of Myrtle Beach.......

Have fun on your trip!

Dave

<edit...Wow your thread got over 1000 hits already. Whats the next build going to be?>

There's plenty of room in the U-Haul on the way down, but I'm flying back.

Good thought though.

Ira
08-16-2006, 04:39 AM
Hey Grasshopper, As soon as you give in to the hopeless adiction of AP you should work that Magpie like a rented mule! Can't wait to see the pic's :D

JediFlyer
08-16-2006, 06:27 PM
Tell you what Grasshopper...bring your plane...fly it at Myrtle Beach take some pics...HAVE FUN...when you are done, give me a call and I will make the hour drive from Wilmington to pick up your plane...I need a new one anyway...:D

Grasshopper
08-17-2006, 05:42 AM
Tell you what Grasshopper...bring your plane...fly it at Myrtle Beach take some pics...HAVE FUN...when you are done, give me a call and I will make the hour drive from Wilmington to pick up your plane...I need a new one anyway...:D


Gee that's really tempting but I just won't have time. Thanks for the very kind offer though.

Ira
08-17-2006, 06:35 AM
Come on G.H. we want pic's!!!

Grasshopper
08-17-2006, 01:47 PM
Come on G.H. we want pic's!!!


I can't handle all this pressure!!!!!!!

Ira
08-17-2006, 04:51 PM
Sorry G.H.! I just get overly excited about all this AP stuff.

Grasshopper
08-24-2006, 03:54 PM
I got to play around with the Magpie again the other evening. I really, really like flying this plane. I sure don't regret putting a little extra power on it now. This thing will climb out like a rocket and seems to float forever on landings. I was taking off and landing between a row of trees down our street the other evening. Got a couple of descent shots over the neighborhood. The closer one is my house. It's the two story in the upper left. I'm across the street in the orange shirt. Please forgive my brown grass. I finally gave up on watering since it wanted to remain over 100 degrees here for weeks on end.

I was kind of excited to fly this when I first started it but now, it seems to be the only one I fly. (my poor little warbirds are not feeling the love). I'll try to get out again this weekend to practice some additional shots.

Ira
08-24-2006, 05:12 PM
Nice verts G.H.! Welcome to the AP junkie club :D

Ira
08-28-2006, 04:45 AM
Hope I'm not hijacking here but this seems to be the new official Magpie thread. Had a very difficult shoot today. The challange was a very short tight LZ and the Shot Getter has a habit of floating on forever so it went to the Pie. The county needs pic's of solid waste collection sites for planning and this is the last one to get photoed due to the difficulty. The white arrow indicates wind direction ( about 8 mph) and the red shows approach, which as the HT lines and trees make clear is a non starter. I flew from down the road and expected to take some damage on the landing but REALY want to keep this client happy. To make a long story shorter the landing was the tightest ever on a money shot but the Pie flew flawlesly and came through without a scratch!! Here are images of the subject and LZ and landing approach used. Ira

JediFlyer
08-28-2006, 05:13 PM
Question here...I pulled out my foam wings last night to see how they are going to line up...one wing is about 1/16th of an inch wider than the other...should I sand it down...does it matter with that small of a difference...

Ira
08-28-2006, 05:40 PM
Hey Jedi, I would study it to see where it matches up. If the LE's match sand the TE's. If the TE's match then sand the LE's but a lot more care will need to be given to shape. I wouldn't just leave it becouse those little things can add up to a crappy flying bird. $00.2 Ira

JediFlyer
08-28-2006, 06:03 PM
I lined em up last night and the leading edges match along with the spare groove...its just the TE that is slightly bigger...shouldnt take much to even em up

Grasshopper
08-28-2006, 06:28 PM
Hope I'm not hijacking here but this seems to be the new official Magpie thread. Had a very difficult shoot today. The challange was a very short tight LZ and the Shot Getter has a habit of floating on forever so it went to the Pie. The county needs pic's of solid waste collection sites for planning and this is the last one to get photoed due to the difficulty. The white arrow indicates wind direction ( about 8 mph) and the red shows approach, which as the HT lines and trees make clear is a non starter. I flew from down the road and expected to take some damage on the landing but REALY want to keep this client happy. To make a long story shorter the landing was the tightest ever on a money shot but the Pie flew flawlesly and came through without a scratch!! Here are images of the subject and LZ and landing approach used. Ira

Nice job Ira! I think the only way you could have done it any better would have been to come straight down with a helicopter.

Ira
08-28-2006, 07:09 PM
It would have been a handfull with the Heli, mostly due to the distance to the subject from the "runway" (about 600 yds). I'm not a good enough heli pilot to let the whirlie get even 1/3 that distance away. Also lots of wires and brush with the breeze would have put a heli at even greater risk. This one was made for the Pie. Must admit to hedging my bets and putting a cheapo camera (Olympus FE-115) on board "just in case". It's 5 mp and takes decent pic's but the write speed is rather slow so I can only get about 1 or 2 shots per pass. Ira

JediFlyer
08-28-2006, 08:29 PM
Grasshopper..what size prop did you end up with or recommend...I know you said the 9x6 was to much pitch...

Grasshopper
08-28-2006, 08:39 PM
Grasshopper..what size prop did you end up with or recommend...I know you said the 9x6 was to much pitch...

I'm still using the 9x6. I'm going to try the 9x4.5 but the LHS doesn't have one. It still flys really well with the 9x6.

JediFlyer
08-28-2006, 08:57 PM
I am going to get a Phoenix 35...might be over-kill...The only problem I have is that I dont have a wattmeter...so I guess I need to be careful

Grasshopper
08-28-2006, 09:00 PM
I am going to get a Phoenix 35...might be over-kill...The only problem I have is that I dont have a wattmeter...so I guess I need to be careful

Do you have a LHS that would hook a meter to it for a check? I'd hate to see you fry a component right off the start.

JediFlyer
08-28-2006, 09:02 PM
Unfortunately...NO..we dont have ANYTHING around here...

Grasshopper
08-28-2006, 09:05 PM
Bummer!

Ira
08-28-2006, 09:27 PM
That 9x4.5 should be a better choice for the Pie. You want low speed pull for TO and climb out ,not high speed pull. I've' been running an AXI 2808/24, Jeti 30amp, 2100mah 3c lipo, 9x4.5 prop and this plane takes off and climbs like an animal. Flight times over 1/2 hour with plenty of juice to spare. Ira

Grasshopper
08-29-2006, 01:26 AM
Had my LHS order two 9x4.5E props this afternoon. Should be here Thursday.

JediFlyer
08-29-2006, 01:59 AM
Would a 9 x 4.7 do

Grasshopper
08-29-2006, 03:50 AM
I would sure think so.

Ira
08-29-2006, 05:09 AM
Due to all the flying "in the rough" I do the 9 in. prop is the best real world choice for my Pie. The bigger ones may be a bit more effecent but they toss crap all over the plane (and camera lens!) get knocked out of balance and in the process cause blurred pics. Initial power on TO is great. I did a demo flt for a friend a while back and like most non RCers he thought e- power was gutless. He was standing behind the Magie when I went 100% for a short field TO and he almost wet his pants! :D He started yelling "you didn't tell me it would do that"!! ;) :D Ira

Grasshopper
08-29-2006, 05:53 AM
I hope this helps, but I just couldn't take not being able to steer my Pie on the ground. Plus the uncontrolled spins when landing on pavement were just too much. The little plywood skid that came with it got ripped out within a few flights and the foam broke out. I picked up a Dubro tail wheel bracket and 3/4" wheel this evening and made a mount out of light ply. I used a piece of heat shrink over the wire before I epoxied it to the bottom of the rudder.

We'll see how it works when I get a chance to fly it again.

Ira
08-29-2006, 05:56 AM
Man G.H. that Pie makes mine look like cr^# !

Grasshopper
08-29-2006, 05:57 AM
Maybe, but mine is costing money right now and yours is making money.

Ira
08-29-2006, 06:17 AM
Ya but now I feel bad for "pimp'in poor old Magie out. :D

Kosh
08-29-2006, 06:59 AM
The tail wheel is the same as my setup and I love it. I'm able to turn sharp after touch down and avoid those pesky trees. It may slide on a wing tip for a bit but it sure beats the other outcome.
Grasshopper, As you fly more and get some good keeper pics around your area. Have some of your best made into 8 x 10 photos, I carry a photo album in my car of some of mine and when asked I just let them look for them selves. It has gotten me more jobs than I care to admit and Costco does GREAT 8 x 10s for $1.49 each. Print out some card on your computer for a call back to those that are really interested and the plane will pay for your hobby. I don't care where you live there are always few that will pay for your talent.

Grasshopper
08-29-2006, 02:29 PM
The tail wheel is the same as my setup and I love it. I'm able to turn sharp after touch down and avoid those pesky trees. It may slide on a wing tip for a bit but it sure beats the other outcome.
Grasshopper, As you fly more and get some good keeper pics around your area. Have some of your best made into 8 x 10 photos, I carry a photo album in my car of some of mine and when asked I just let them look for them selves. It has gotten me more jobs than I care to admit and Costco does GREAT 8 x 10s for $1.49 each. Print out some card on your computer for a call back to those that are really interested and the plane will pay for your hobby. I don't care where you live there are always few that will pay for your talent.

Good idea Kosh. I'll do that.

Thanks

JediFlyer
08-29-2006, 10:54 PM
Got my Pie started today...First incident I had was I lined the wings together on the bottom and taped it up all nice....flipped it over and applied epoxy to both sides of the area that I was joining...laid a nice heavy...Moby Dick book I think it was on one side and propped up the other side with a jar of something I had around...then...THE TAPE ON THE BOTTOM GAVE WAY...CRUD I was rushin around trying to get it straight again on the bottom before my 5 minutes ran out...I got it pretty much flushed back up...close enough for government work anyway...USE GRACIOUS AMOUNTS of tape on the bottom!

OH and I went ahead and put the camera housing part together...THIN CA wicks thru balsa onto the other side...I PROMISE! First timer with thin CA and I was like...UH OH!!! I dont have any finger prints right now...:)

Grasshopper
08-29-2006, 10:59 PM
Got my Pie started today...First incident I had was I lined the wings together on the bottom and taped it up all nice....flipped it over and applied epoxy to both sides of the area that I was joining...laid a nice heavy...Moby Dick book I think it was on one side and propped up the other side with a jar of something I had around...then...THE TAPE ON THE BOTTOM GAVE WAY...CRUD I was rushin around trying to get it straight again on the bottom before my 5 minutes ran out...I got it pretty much flushed back up...close enough for government work anyway...USE GRACIOUS AMOUNTS of tape on the bottom!

OH and I went ahead and put the camera housing part together...THIN CA wicks thru balsa onto the other side...I PROMISE! First timer with thin CA and I was like...UH OH!!! I dont have any finger prints right now...:)

Glad to hear you got started. Post some pics. I think 5 minute epoxy is really 2 minute (the time you have to move things around before it's too stiff to do anything with it). Also, I used GRACIOUS AMOUNTS of wax paper under everything I glued so it didn't stick to things it wasn't supposed to. Like our kitchen counters.

Good luck with the build. It's a great plane.

JediFlyer
08-29-2006, 11:53 PM
You guys are costin me too much money...getting ready to order some stuff and here is my list...

1- .40 Dubro tail wheel assembly
1- 3.4" tail wheel
2- 2-1/2" Dubro wheels
1- APC 9x4.5 electric prop
1- Heat shrink
1- More GWS pico


I was lookin at how to hinge the elevator and rudder....What size CA hinges should I get if I go with that..do you think it makes a big difference? I was lookin at the Great Planes CA hinges...I am lookin at 3M Blenderm as well as some have used that

Grasshopper
08-30-2006, 01:45 AM
You guys are costin me too much money...getting ready to order some stuff and here is my list...

1- .40 Dubro tail wheel assembly
1- 3.4" tail wheel
2- 2-1/2" Dubro wheels
1- APC 9x4.5 electric prop
1- Heat shrink
1- More GWS pico


I was lookin at how to hinge the elevator and rudder....What size CA hinges should I get if I go with that..do you think it makes a big difference? I was lookin at the Great Planes CA hinges...I am lookin at 3M Blenderm as well as some have used that

Just got back in from running 3 packs through my Pie. Man what a plane. You won't be dissapointed in the tail wheel. It made all the difference in the world. Take offs and landings were sooooooo much smoother. I didn't have to jerk it off the ground because it was going all squirrely on me at low speeds.

I'm not familiar with the Great planes hinges but I would assume they would all be pretty similar. I used the Sig Easy hinges (SIGH710) They measure 3/4" x 1" and put them in with a few drops of medium CA on each side.

Tom

JediFlyer
08-30-2006, 02:34 AM
This order is going to set me back a little and I might have to wait to get my motor set up...I guess I am going to break down and get a What's up meter...doesnt do me any good to buy an expensive brushless and burn it up because of to much juice...:(

Grasshopper
08-30-2006, 02:41 AM
This order is going to set me back a little and I might have to wait to get my motor set up...I guess I am going to break down and get a What's up meter...doesnt do me any good to buy an expensive brushless and burn it up because of to much juice...:(

I'd be afraid to set up a plane without a watt meter now. The first prop I tried on the magpie had it pulling 41 amps OUCH! Good thing it was only for a couple of seconds on my 30 amp ESC. If I wouldn't have metered it, I would have been all dumb and happy and gone out and flown the heck out of it...... for a little while.

JediFlyer
08-30-2006, 04:09 AM
I am getting ready to put the spar in and I see it says..."A little epoxy" should I lightly coat both sides completely or is it better to just put it on certain spots on the spar

Grasshopper
08-30-2006, 04:24 AM
I am getting ready to put the spar in and I see it says..."A little epoxy" should I lightly coat both sides completely or is it better to just put it on certain spots on the spar

I put a very thin layer all the way down both sides. It helps a little when sliding it in if you can gently spread the gap open in the wing so it doesn't wipe off the epoxy. You also need to be carful that it doesn't stick too far through so it sticks past the groove. Mine did but I just used a dremmel with a little sanding drum to dress it down flush with the wing once it dried.

JediFlyer
08-30-2006, 08:41 PM
Got the Fuse put glued together and cut the slot for the wing spar...looks like I might have to sand a little on it...seems to be a tad too wide no matter how I situate it...Got my TP2908-10 ordered as Paul at www.rcepower.com (http://www.rcepower.com) took care of me today...I also threw in my order for my other supplies...plopped down the cash for a Whats up meter...might as well I guess (thank God for my computer/networking skills that give me some extra cash on the side to support my fix :))...I still dont know if I am going with the 25 or 35 CC Phoenix yet...with your report of the amps at WOT I am afraid to go with the 25.

Going to get the wing spar put in later this evening..have to get some Elmers Glue as I am tired of mixing epoxy where I might not exaclty need it and I see that others have used it in lou of epoxy...just a mess to deal with.

OH..GWS servos MUST be tied to the gas market...I ordered three the other day at 9.27 a piece and today they were 12.97 a piece :eek::eek:, probably Bush's fault..:)
(http://www.rcepower.com/)

aviatordave
08-30-2006, 09:05 PM
I still dont know if I am going with the 25 or 35 CC Phoenix yet...with your report of the amps at WOT I am afraid to go with the 25.



Wow that motor must be a real hot rod. Maybe go with the 35 amp for peace of mind, you dont want to open any circuits while your airborne!

My motor pulls only 17 amps WOT. A himax 2025-4200 w/ 6:6.1 GB turning a 12 x 8, it goes next to vertical at launch. Its real nice to get the plane up there fast then glide around and take some pictures.

good luck with the build and keep us posted.

Dave

Grasshopper
08-30-2006, 11:13 PM
Got the Fuse put glued together and cut the slot for the wing spar...looks like I might have to sand a little on it...seems to be a tad too wide no matter how I situate it...Got my TP2908-10 ordered as Paul at www.rcepower.com (http://www.rcepower.com) took care of me today...I also threw in my order for my other supplies...plopped down the cash for a Whats up meter...might as well I guess (thank God for my computer/networking skills that give me some extra cash on the side to support my fix :))...I still dont know if I am going with the 25 or 35 CC Phoenix yet...with your report of the amps at WOT I am afraid to go with the 25.

Going to get the wing spar put in later this evening..have to get some Elmers Glue as I am tired of mixing epoxy where I might not exaclty need it and I see that others have used it in lou of epoxy...just a mess to deal with.

OH..GWS servos MUST be tied to the gas market...I ordered three the other day at 9.27 a piece and today they were 12.97 a piece :eek::eek:, probably Bush's fault..:)
(http://www.rcepower.com/)

I would go with the 35 amp ESC. My motor pulls 29 amps at WOT with the 9x6E prop. That's why I've ordered a couple 9x4.5Es. I used the 30 amp ESC from rcepower and his SG90 servos. They're all working fine and they were much cheaper than the CC ESCs. I've had my CC Phoenix 25 at Castle Creations for an upgrade because of some glitch they had and it's been 5 weeks. Now I'm told today it will be another 2 weeks. This is the third time I've been told it will be another 2 weeks. It's getting old.

Now that you mention it, I used Elmers on the wing spar too. It works fine and gives you more work time.

Grasshopper
08-31-2006, 05:16 PM
Wow that motor must be a real hot rod. Maybe go with the 35 amp for peace of mind, you dont want to open any circuits while your airborne!

My motor pulls only 17 amps WOT. A himax 2025-4200 w/ 6:6.1 GB turning a 12 x 8, it goes next to vertical at launch. Its real nice to get the plane up there fast then glide around and take some pictures.

good luck with the build and keep us posted.

Dave

Yea Dave the motor is probably a little much for the Magpie. I'm like you though that it's nice to get up to altitude fast and then glide around. It also helps when I don't have a lot of space to take off in. The only problem is that it won't help you when you don't have a lot of space to land in. I'm hoping Kosh's flaps will help that situation.

aviatordave
08-31-2006, 06:11 PM
GH - I'll be interested as well when he gives them a couple good tests. I pulled out my stash of 6 mm depron, which I was looking at last night to see if I should use that (seems a little thick).

Something my dad always said, "Theres no such thing as too much power!"

Grasshopper
08-31-2006, 08:32 PM
GH - I'll be interested as well when he gives them a couple good tests. I pulled out my stash of 6 mm depron, which I was looking at last night to see if I should use that (seems a little thick).

Something my dad always said, "Theres no such thing as too much power!"



That sounds like something Tim the Tool Man would say! Grunt grunt.

JediFlyer
08-31-2006, 09:05 PM
This does have to do with my MAP, but kinda not...I see that some people have used bullet connectors to connect their motor to the ESC...is there any reason that they dont solder it together...I guess the only reason NOT to would be that you could use it on another plane...but I only have two and thats all I plan on keeping right now....

Grasshopper
08-31-2006, 09:23 PM
This does have to do with my MAP, but kinda not...I see that some people have used bullet connectors to connect their motor to the ESC...is there any reason that they dont solder it together...I guess the only reason NOT to would be that you could use it on another plane...but I only have two and thats all I plan on keeping right now....

I used bullet connectors but I'm thinking about taking them off. They're just another connection to go bad or get disconnected. There's no reason why you can't solder them direct. You just need to make sure the motor is running the right direction and then put some heat shrink over them.

Ira
08-31-2006, 11:05 PM
The only reason I use connectors is two diffrent planes with the same motor. If one goes bad I can swap them out without missing any daylight. Only thing I would add is that if you don't solder them (best) use very high quality gold plated connectors. I like the JETI's. they are so shinney and cool :D Ira

JediFlyer
09-04-2006, 09:21 PM
Have the fuse done except the covering...the wing is done except covering and one side of the spar strip...Taking my time as its gonna be a week or so before I can order my speed controller...Then I gotta get some batts..I was going with the 8C batteries, but from what I see with the motor/prop combo I am using I dont think those are gonna cut it....The only thing I saw with the fuse and camera housing is that the scored line on the balsa didnt quite line up just above the fuse...it was lined up just right at the front and back..but was either even or slightly below the fuse in the middle areas...probably some room for deviation in materials anyway...Im afraid to fly it now..I have lost all confidence in my flying ability since last evening...flippin crashed my easystar into a friends car...didnt do any damage, but its embarassing and makes you feel STUPID! I came in for a landing and swung around for another pass to land it closer and didnt keep up enough airspeed...she just DEAD STALLED on me

JediFlyer
09-05-2006, 06:10 PM
I am looking at the instructions for attaching the Vertical stabilizer...It doesnt mention beveling that part, just the horizontal stabilizer...any suggestions on that..should I bevel it both ways 45 degrees or leave it square?

Also, it ask to lightly sand the wings...did you sand the fuse as well ...what is the best thing to clean off the wing just prior to applying the 3M

Grasshopper...what size screws did you get for the firewall mount for the X mount...

Got my motor in today...going to have to do that mount mod you did...It doesnt look like it is centered onto the motor mount with the kit..so did you center it between that vertical piece and the bottom of the motor mount?

I am going to try to buy the ESC next week sometime.

Grasshopper
09-06-2006, 07:52 PM
I am looking at the instructions for attaching the Vertical stabilizer...It doesnt mention beveling that part, just the horizontal stabilizer...any suggestions on that..should I bevel it both ways 45 degrees or leave it square?

You would be fine not beveling the vertical stabilizer. If you bevel the front of the rudder on both sides at 45 degrees, that will give you plenty of travel.

Also, it ask to lightly sand the wings...did you sand the fuse as well ...what is the best thing to clean off the wing just prior to applying the 3M

I didn't use the 3M so I can't answer that one. Maybe someone else will chime in.
I sanded the entire plane. If you take a look at the pictures, I rounded all the corners except the inside of the motor mount cut out and around the wing saddle.

Grasshopper...what size screws did you get for the firewall mount for the X mount...

I used #6 x 3/8" sheet metal screws.

Got my motor in today...going to have to do that mount mod you did...It doesnt look like it is centered onto the motor mount with the kit..so did you center it between that vertical piece and the bottom of the motor mount?

The center line of the motor is in the center of the fuselage cutout (1" from the top).

I am going to try to buy the ESC next week sometime.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Tom

JediFlyer
09-09-2006, 02:24 AM
Frak...I did get my supplies in today..should have seen the look on the wifes face when my second package came this week :D...I do regret one thing...Instead of the Whats up meter...I ran across the DPR today...would have been better for me as my computer is where my work area is upstairs...its the mans area of the house ;)...Going to order my lipos tonight...and work on covering tomorrow and Sunday....

JediFlyer
09-09-2006, 02:50 PM
Dangit...work is severely hampering my attempts to work on my plane this weekend! Hope to get to some work done tonight on the PIE...I need to talk to my boss about this atrocity!

Grasshopper...what did you end up doing for the right thrust..just a #6 washer under each screw on that side...

Grasshopper
09-09-2006, 05:03 PM
Dangit...work is severely hampering my attempts to work on my plane this weekend! Hope to get to some work done tonight on the PIE...I need to talk to my boss about this atrocity!

Grasshopper...what did you end up doing for the right thrust..just a #6 washer under each screw on that side...

Yes, I used one washer on top and bottom of the left side.

I too find that work really gets in the way of my personal life!

JediFlyer
09-09-2006, 06:40 PM
Dangit..I hate to keep botherin you guys...I was thinking of the build and have a question. I bought a 24" piece of 1/8" carbon tubing for use in replacing the rubberband points on the fuse...Would it be of any benefit, better to use the same tubing to replace the wooden 7-3/16" dowel that is used on the elevator surface in step 6? Pros...cons..I wouldnt think it would add too much weight

Grasshopper
09-09-2006, 09:12 PM
Dangit..I hate to keep botherin you guys...I was thinking of the build and have a question. I bought a 24" piece of 1/8" carbon tubing for use in replacing the rubberband points on the fuse...Would it be of any benefit, better to use the same tubing to replace the wooden 7-3/16" dowel that is used on the elevator surface in step 6? Pros...cons..I wouldnt think it would add too much weight

Sorry I can't help you on that one. I've never used carbon fiber.

Kosh
09-09-2006, 09:30 PM
Shouldnt be any kind of a problem to use the C/F in place of wood. Minor changes in the build are not a big problem as the battery is used to make it balance.

JediFlyer
09-09-2006, 11:19 PM
Good..I think Ill go with the CF...never hurts to make things a little stronger..the weight shouldnt be an issue...or atleast not that much of a difference to be an issue

JediFlyer
09-10-2006, 03:54 AM
Grasshopper...did you have to drill out your prop...

Grasshopper
09-10-2006, 04:01 AM
Grasshopper...did you have to drill out your prop...


Yep. Clamped a 5/16" drill in the vise and slowly twisted the prop onto the drill bit by hand.

I assume you are using the same motor?

JediFlyer
09-10-2006, 02:20 PM
I am...It appears to be only a 1/16th of an inch too small..LOL

JediFlyer
09-11-2006, 04:14 AM
Heres on for you guys...I see that about half of the builds that I have seen here or over at RCG's have covered the horizontal and vertical stabilizers...is there a reason I SHOULD do it or is it mainly for looks...

aviatordave
09-11-2006, 04:18 AM
Looks.

I didnt bother with covering my tail. I used Solite for the rest which in my opinion is junk for an AP plane since most guys land in areas that tear things up.

Dave

Kosh
09-11-2006, 04:32 AM
Dave's right, Tape is cheap, lite and can be redone. I end up with far more damage getting the plane in and out of my car than from flying it. Make your plane easy to see in the sky and it will really pay off first time you take it up above 400 feet. Sounds like your getting close to done with this project so we want some pics when you can please.

Grasshopper
09-11-2006, 04:32 AM
I didn't put any covering on the tail either. Seems to be working fine.

JediFlyer
09-11-2006, 06:10 PM
I AINT close to being done..ok MAYBE close...just takin my time...I DID manage to cover the wing today..not as bad as I thought it was gonna be...

aviatordave
09-11-2006, 06:18 PM
looking good!

I like the camera servo, that should provide you with a hassle free set up..

Grasshopper
09-11-2006, 06:36 PM
She's starting to look like a Pie! Keep up the good work.

Tom

JediFlyer
09-11-2006, 11:45 PM
Got everything taped up...dug out the servo holes. I need to go to Lowes tomorrow for some screws for the bigger wheels

Grasshopper
09-12-2006, 12:15 AM
I'll bet it ends up being pretty light. You'll want to be carefull on the maiden. That motor will make it scream.

JediFlyer
09-12-2006, 12:41 AM
LOL...I figured it would...I dont think I am going to have to use 1/2 throttle...I am going with the carbon tube for the elevator pieces though...might as well since I have the PIEces...Hehehe...Anyone have a trick for getting the vertical stabalizer on straight...

Grasshopper
09-12-2006, 01:42 AM
LOL...I figured it would...I dont think I am going to have to use 1/2 throttle...I am going with the carbon tube for the elevator pieces though...might as well since I have the PIEces...Hehehe...Anyone have a trick for getting the vertical stabalizer on straight...

Typically I only need about 1/8 to 1/4 throttle to cruise around. As far as the vertical stab, I weighted the fuse down to the bench top with it straight up and down. Then I used a Drafting square on the bench to give me a good vertical line and used 5 minute epoxy. You can tape it in place while it dries. You may want to make a dry run with it first.

JediFlyer
09-13-2006, 09:30 PM
T-R-O-U-B-L-E....DAGNABIT...OK..here is where I am at..I have attached the vertical and horizontal stabilizers along with the elevator surface..I used this type of hinge http://www.yourzagi.com/images/tapehinge.jpg Looked pretty secure...My trouble came from Grasshoppers tail wheel mod...ITS ALL YOUR FAULT...actually its mine for not thinking ahead. So THIS is what I have..



My problems are this...as you can see the control horn is being obstructed by the 1/8" bass wood I made for the tail wheel mount....Not only that the MAP instructions ask to tape the surface down there...which now I cannot because it is being covered...any suggestions? HELP ME...Im ALMOST done!

Kosh
09-13-2006, 10:03 PM
I dont see any reason why you cant just use CA hinges there. Its a fast easy solution that I have on mine. One in the lower part and 2 or 3 in the top.

JediFlyer
09-13-2006, 10:56 PM
I might hit a friend up and see if he can throw some hinges in...it looks as if with the CA hinges the clearance is going to be JUST in line...so it might be OK...I will just have to set my TX to not throw that far..but like I said it looks as if it will get the 1.25" anyway..OH and I have come to the conclusion that model kit builders and the screw industry are in kahoots...I cannot for the life of me find and alan wrench..I HAD a set but...alas...lost

Not going to enjoy bending and sodering the wire for the tail wheel...but its gonna make things MUCH better

JediFlyer
09-13-2006, 11:12 PM
I C said the blind man...Torx #15

Kosh
09-14-2006, 01:32 AM
The rudder is very effective and doesnt need full throws to work well so your ok.

JediFlyer
09-14-2006, 01:41 AM
I am just going to go ahead and glue in the motor mount tomorrow as I can just adjust any angle issues with washers anyway....I am going to need to redo the mount tomorrow...I used some 1/8" bass wood I had from the hobby store and well...its CRAP along the grain..split it out...I have some ply I am going to use instead..She is basically done...waiting for my ESC and Lipos...

Grasshopper
09-14-2006, 03:31 AM
T-R-O-U-B-L-E....DAGNABIT...OK..here is where I am at..I have attached the vertical and horizontal stabilizers along with the elevator surface..I used this type of hinge http://www.yourzagi.com/images/tapehinge.jpg Looked pretty secure...My trouble came from Grasshoppers tail wheel mod...ITS ALL YOUR FAULT...actually its mine for not thinking ahead. So THIS is what I have..



My problems are this...as you can see the control horn is being obstructed by the 1/8" bass wood I made for the tail wheel mount....Not only that the MAP instructions ask to tape the surface down there...which now I cannot because it is being covered...any suggestions? HELP ME...Im ALMOST done!

Sorry I screwed ya up. I agree with Kosh and just use CA hinges. They're quick, easy and effective. I'm not sure what the throw on my rudder is (I can measure it if you like) but I don't believe it's any where near 1 1/4" and has plenty of control.

Don E
09-14-2006, 04:07 AM
I think I remember setting the rudder to what ever they recomended in the instructions for high and low rates. I've found that the low rate setting is where I fly it most of the time. I'ts smoother and has plenty of athority. So I'm with them, Go with the CA hinges.

My $.02

Don

JediFlyer
09-14-2006, 04:11 AM
Thats what I will do then..I will go with the low throw rates...I just sat down and soldered the tail wheel...burned my fingers..inhaled solder fumes...LOL...If my buddy has a few hinges I might have him go ahead and hinge the elevator surfaces...I just keep lookin up on the rack...shes a PIE now....minus the rudder and Power...Thought it would be a lot harder than it was...DEFINETLY a learning experience though...I think I have been thru....2 things of 5-minute epoxy now...the ones you get that have dual plungers...I did try the one that mixes in a syringe type applicator...works great but you have to throw away the tip...I am going to keep the syringe part this time and flush the tips out with proper cleaning fluid after use for the next batch...save the tip a few times

Kosh
09-14-2006, 04:16 AM
Lots of photos would be more than welcome when your done.
Should this become a sticky?

JediFlyer
09-15-2006, 04:21 PM
Drilled out the prop this morning and had to redo my motor mount last night as I stripped the cheapo wood out...I had some 3/16" ply in the back that I had left over so I knocked off a piece of that. I have a few ?'s, actually lookin for opinions...

1-over at TOS, in one of the threads was mentioned that MM had included two pieces of ply to use on the tops of the wings to keep the rubberbands from diggin in. Is that still part of the kit? All I see is the rectangular piece used for the camera servo tilt mount???

2-when mounting the motor mount is it or would it be necessary to glue INSIDE the slot the mount slides into...just seems it would make it a bear to get out if I had to get the mount off..I was thinking of just gluing the parts that touch either side of the fuse and gluing the part that touches the front of the fuse, but NOT inside the slot...

HOPEFULLY I get my ESC and LiPo in the mail today.....fingers crossed

Grasshopper
09-15-2006, 05:18 PM
Drilled out the prop this morning and had to redo my motor mount last night as I stripped the cheapo wood out...I had some 3/16" ply in the back that I had left over so I knocked off a piece of that. I have a few ?'s, actually lookin for opinions...

1-over at TOS, in one of the threads was mentioned that MM had included two pieces of ply to use on the tops of the wings to keep the rubberbands from diggin in. Is that still part of the kit? All I see is the rectangular piece used for the camera servo tilt mount???

2-when mounting the motor mount is it or would it be necessary to glue INSIDE the slot the mount slides into...just seems it would make it a bear to get out if I had to get the mount off..I was thinking of just gluing the parts that touch either side of the fuse and gluing the part that touches the front of the fuse, but NOT inside the slot...

HOPEFULLY I get my ESC and LiPo in the mail today.....fingers crossed

Sounds like you're almost there JF.

(1) The two pieces of ply to go on the wings were not in my kit either. Since I had covered the wing with a poly material and Minwax, I thought that might be enough but it wasn't. The rubber bands quickly start to dig into the wing. I went to Michaels craft store and bought a small sheet of 1/64" ply and covered the leading and trailing edge where the rubber bands go over it. That solved the problem. I can post some photos this evening if you like.

(2) As far as the motor mount, I glued all surfaces with Gorilla glue. It was really just my preference. The way I figured it, if I ever need to remove the motor mount, it will be from a serious encounter with Mother Earth and she will most likely remove the whole nose for me.

Tom

JediFlyer
09-15-2006, 06:12 PM
(1) The two pieces of ply to go on the wings were not in my kit either. Since I had covered the wing with a poly material and Minwax, I thought that might be enough but it wasn't. The rubber bands quickly start to dig into the wing. I went to Michaels craft store and bought a small sheet of 1/64" ply and covered the leading and trailing edge where the rubber bands go over it. That solved the problem. I can post some photos this evening if you like.
Some pics would be awesome, Did you have any problems with the underside of the wing being dug into by the wing sadle area? On TOS, I saw where someone put some small shims of foam underneath...


(2) As far as the motor mount, I glued all surfaces with Gorilla glue. It was really just my preference. The way I figured it, if I ever need to remove the motor mount, it will be from a serious encounter with Mother Earth and she will most likely remove the whole nose for me.
Good point....Ill glue the whole thing

Im Proud of my little MAP...she looks good and I think I took the time to get thing as close to perfect as I could being this is my first build like this....NOW THE ?..is she gonna fly correctly....

Grasshopper
09-15-2006, 08:36 PM
Some pics would be awesome, Did you have any problems with the underside of the wing being dug into by the wing sadle area? On TOS, I saw where someone put some small shims of foam underneath...



Good point....Ill glue the whole thing

Im Proud of my little MAP...she looks good and I think I took the time to get thing as close to perfect as I could being this is my first build like this....NOW THE ?..is she gonna fly correctly....

I'll post some pics of the wing this evening. Yes, the wing saddle is starting to dig into the bottom of the wing a little. I'm going to put some lite ply on the bottom also. Some foam in the middle might help, but I would be a little concerned it would compress also and still have the same problem.

Your Pie should fly great! Just take a lot of time for preflight. Make sure everything is straight, fastened down well and all control surfaces all move in the correct direction. Also double check the CG. I made mine slightly nose heavy and left it that way. Since my CG is determined by the placement of the battery by moving it forward or back, once I had it where I wanted it, I put a pencil mark on the fuselage where the front and back of the battery line up so I put it in the same place every time.

Carefull on the take off because as I'm sure you've read, they sometimes want to be a little squirrely right after they lift off. Try to keep it on the ground for a little while. With that motor, it wants to lift off almost immediately. The tail wheel is a huge help though and did greatly reduce the take off wiggles.

If you're going to fly it with a camera, make some type of mock camera for the maiden that is the same weight. Also, if you are going to fly with a camera, make sure the CG is set with the camera attached or the mock camera. If you're going to fly it without either, set the CG as such.

Hope this helps,

Tom

JediFlyer
09-15-2006, 08:46 PM
I cant remember from all those post in the four threads, was there a fix or reason for the squirrelyness...

Grasshopper
09-15-2006, 09:11 PM
I cant remember from all those post in the four threads, was there a fix or reason for the squirrelyness...

Ya know, I just think it's inherent in the plane's design. Honestly, I don't really notice it on mine. I did notice it a little when it didn't have a tail wheel. After you fly it a few times you know what it's going to do when it lifts off (for the most part). I've found it to be more of an issue trying to keep it from climbing too fast and that's not even that bad. The Pie is probably the easiest plane to fly that I have. That may not be a good comparison since all my other planes are low wing warbirds.

When you maiden it, try to do it in a wide open area so you don't have to worry about obstacles. When ever I maiden a plane, I go to the biggest field I can. You've got enough other things to think about so get as much space as you can. You'll do great!

Grasshopper
09-15-2006, 10:52 PM
Here's some pics of the ply reinforcements on the wing. It's very thin ply (almost a veneer) and held in place with 5 minute epoxy.

JediFlyer
09-16-2006, 02:43 PM
OK...here she is ... without power :(... guess I didnt cross my fingers hard enough yesterday. Need to get the Rx and servo connections done...have a friend going to do the z-bends for me as he has a pair of z-bend pliers.

Only question is ... does the right thrust look like TOO much? I only used one washer under the left side???

One other thing....how tight do you wrench down on the prop nut

Grasshopper
09-16-2006, 04:34 PM
Looks great Jedi! I like the markings. They're clean and simple but effective for orientation.

If you only used one thin washer under the two left screws, you should be fine. As far as the prop nut goes, I just make sure it's good and snug. You can wrap a cloth or something soft around the collet and grip it gently with pliers while you snug the nut. Just don't over do it.

You're almost there!

JediFlyer
09-17-2006, 09:24 PM
Now that I think of it...the NEXT time, if there ever is, I do a MAP and a suggestion for others getting ready to...I would use some of the left over spar material, as I had quite a bit, and just before I covered the fuse I would figure out where the wing would meet the wing saddle on the fuse...I would then run a spar strip along the wing in line where the wing sits on the saddle....that plastic would be enough to keep it from diggin into the wing...at this point...I might just do this and glue it along the edge of the saddle or take some heat shrink or REALLY thin tubing and split it then slide it over the wing saddle rail..that will keep it from diggin in..

Got back in town today and only my Lipo came in...not my ESC :( Stuck my Lipo in a pottery pot in the fireplace...

Ribcracker
09-18-2006, 03:01 AM
Jedi,
Lipos won't spontainiously combust. In order to light them up, you need to either short them, puncture them, or overcharge them. The pottery pot in the fireplace is unneccessary.
Oh, and thanks for all the great text. This has been a lot of fun!
I wish you the best maiden.

JediFlyer
09-19-2006, 12:41 AM
Just got back from the maiden...have some quirks to work out I think...I actually let a friend of mine with more experience than me take her up. Grasshopper...you were right, with that motor...he took off at half throttle..I have the throws set to the minimums and she is VERY sensitive! One thing is we had 15 mph winds...probably not the best for a maiden, but here is the deal...At 5% throttle she just sat there in one place...BEAUTIFULLY! BUT if you go to give her throttle she goes NUTZ she wants to go VERTICAL almost...he was having to give it down elevator with up throttle to keep the plane level. NOW one thing that I think MIGHT be affecting the way she was flying is that I put the battery ON TOP of the wing...this might be causing the eratic behavior. Any suggestions? Let me know if you need more info!

Grasshopper
09-19-2006, 01:02 AM
Congratulations Jedi!!!! I told you that sucker would climb. I'm not sure that the battery on the top will make any difference as long as it's in the right place. For a little better look and to protect it a little, you may want to put it under the wing. Mine is under the right wing.

Next time you're out, and it's a little more calm, get it up a ways and see if it glides OK without power. This is to check to see if the CG is OK. If it does, it's fine. If not, you'll need to adjust it. If the CG is OK, you could try adding a little more down thrust. Mine still wants to climb pretty bad when I add power. I just haven't had time to add the down thrust and try it out again.

JediFlyer
09-19-2006, 01:31 AM
When shes up...and I have just a TAD of power she wil glide all day...I had her just sittin in one spot barely moving. Its just that you add power and WOOF she wants to go vertical...What would you recommend adding...one washer on the upper right side? Would I then need to add another washer to the left to keep that right angle...

Kosh
09-19-2006, 01:40 AM
Congrats on the maiden, When I have a camera onboard I want it to climb fast then throttle back once I'm up. Until you try it with the extra weight I wouldn't change to much just yet. On you next flight try it just a little nose heavy and see if that helps. What GH said about the glide is the key to this plane. Finding that sweet spot with a camera on and it will glide all day. Cant wait to see some pics from you soon.:D

Grasshopper
09-19-2006, 01:47 AM
Congrats on the maiden, When I have a camera onboard I want it to climb fast then throttle back once I'm up. Until you try it with the extra weight I wouldn't change to much just yet. On you next flight try it just a little nose heavy and see if that helps. What GH said about the glide is the key to this plane. Finding that sweet spot with a camera on and it will glide all day. Cant wait to see some pics from you soon.:D

Good point on the camera Kosh. I just assumed it had a camera or equal weight on it.

JediFlyer
09-19-2006, 02:34 AM
I was thinking the same thing...that the extra weight would maybe settle things down, escpecially by filling in the open space in the fuse.

BTW, Grasshopper...I am running a Hyperion 30A with the motor you have...At WOT it hits 35, but if I back it down just a tad to around 94-98% it drops considerably to around 25A or so...So in the air I am probably OK at Full throttle...I dont really see ANY situation where I will need ANYTHING over 50% at this point :)

She does take off really nicely though. You HAVE to take her into the wind though as the wind will tip her over...but into the wind at 25% throttle...taxis, goes and just lifts right off the ground...That tail wheel IS A NECESSITY!!!

JediFlyer
09-19-2006, 02:45 AM
WOW..just did some weight measurements...I think this is pretty much in-line with MAP weights

Wing is 6.4 ounces
Fuse loaded without battery is 17.5 ounces
3S Lipo 2100mah is 5.4 ounces

LOADED without camera is only 29.3 ounces


Camera will be 6.4 ounces

So total with camer is 35.7

BTW, I am going to program my throttle to not go near 30A...I dont need all that power..

Grasshopper
09-19-2006, 02:47 AM
Yeah, about the only time I use full throttle is when I'm in a tight spot and need to get up and over an obstacle. I wouldn't make any adjustments till you put a weight or camera in it. Make sure and check your CG again before flight once you do add the extra weight.

Grasshopper
09-19-2006, 02:48 AM
WOW..just did some weight measurements...I think this is pretty much in-line with MAP weights

Wing is 6.4 ounces
Fuse loaded without battery is 17.5 ounces
3S Lipo 2100mah is 5.4 ounces

LOADED without camera is only 29.3 ounces


Camera will be 6.4 ounces

So total with camer is 35.7

You should be in great shape at that weight. You're 4 oz. lighter than mine.

JediFlyer
09-19-2006, 04:52 PM
Glad to hear that I am that much under...now putting a live downlink wont put it over...

I am going to strap on my 8-cell Ni pack as it is the exact same weight as my camera and see how that changes things...

As far as the CG...are you guys finding that it is closer to the .25 or .5 mark

Grasshopper
09-19-2006, 09:39 PM
Glad to hear that I am that much under...now putting a live downlink wont put it over...

I am going to strap on my 8-cell Ni pack as it is the exact same weight as my camera and see how that changes things...

As far as the CG...are you guys finding that it is closer to the .25 or .5 mark

Just a note, the AUW on mine included the camera.

JediFlyer
09-19-2006, 11:04 PM
Second flight today...added a battery pack this evening to simulate some camera weight...Note to self...dont use painters tape to tape simulated weight to an airplane...She did better with some weight on her...pack fell off at a good height :eek:...landed square on its bottom in some soft mud...didnt break the pack or break a joint it doesnt seem...HOPEFULLY its ok..it was a NiMH pack...got squirrely again after that...she definetly likes some weight.

A few questions here...Again..do you guys find the CG closer to .25 or .5...at that much difference it doesnt seem to me that the CG would matter as long as it was within that range as that is a small range of measurment.

I had her up and if I cut power into the wind just just noses straight up...which sounds like it might be tail heavy...of course we flew in some wind again today so some of that could have been the wind grabbing the MAP...I cant really get her dialed in until I can get her up on a calm day..

Does anyone remember what the total weight of the plane is supposed to be with the cam? Or the maximum weight?

I did move the pack to the right side of the MAP and velcroed it like you did yours Grasshopper...did you use the adhesive on the back or did you end up epoxying it to the plane...until I ensure that the pack is where it needs to be..I am not going to do anything

Grasshopper
09-19-2006, 11:23 PM
Sounds like you're having fun Jedi. As far as the AUW, I think mine, Aviatordave and Ira's are all right at 39 ounces with the camera. An ounce or two either way won't hurt.
On the CG, I think I put mine at 1/2" back from the front edge of the plastic reinforcement strip. It does sound like you are tail heavy to me if she noses up without power. When I cut power on mine, it glides beautifully. I set my CG where it's slightly nose heavy. You may want to check the lateral balance to see if you're heavy on one side.

My velcro strips for the battery are epoxied in place. I used the non adhesive velcro. You can see in the pictures how it's fastened. I would not rely on the adhesive to hold the battery.

Keep asking the questions. You'll get it all worked out.

Tom

aviatordave
09-20-2006, 03:28 AM
Jedi...looks good and glad to hear its airborne.

I balanced mine (slightly nose heavy) at the rear of the bottom platic spar that was glued to the length of the wing. Alot of guys over in RCG did the same and had good results. I also used velcro to hold the battery on to the side under the wing. It didnt seem adequate so I used a rubber band around the fuse to hold it securely. My plane weighed in at 34 oz with camera and battery. After all my mods to the forward facing cam, its about 39 oz like Grasshopper noted. IMHO it is more directional and easier to handle when its a little on the porky side :cool:

After I cut power, mine glides straight and true...I added a little rudder trim and up elevator to get this.

Keep us posted, good luck - Dave

JediFlyer
09-20-2006, 03:14 PM
I have moved the CG to the rear of the spar strip, farthest from the LE. That is basically where Grasshopper has his as well. It puts the battery almost EXACTLY where Grasshopper has his in his pictures. If that CG is correct, which I suspect it is, that would mean that my PIE was WAY tail heavy and would explain the squirrely behavior...looks like the winds are going to be to high today...I wanna get out and fly!

Are any of you guys hand launching?

Grasshopper
09-20-2006, 03:24 PM
Unlike your weather, I'm sitting in my office looking out across the ponds and they are smooth as glass. Not even the slightest breeze here, sunny and 60 degrees. Man I want out to fly!

Don't push your luck and try to fly it in wind. Although it will handle it pretty well, you should wait till you get all the kinks worked out and are used to flying it before you test it in the wind.

Good luck on the next flight. I think you'll see a noticable difference.

Tom

JediFlyer
09-20-2006, 04:15 PM
This is a little off topic...but I feel horrible about something that happened at the field the other day on my maiden....Basically, the field where I usually fly was full of young soccer players. So we went over to the football field to send her up. I had my kids with me and my friend and I went into the field to get set up. Well, there was this guy in the field with his wife and young son. He was flying some miniature plane foamy of some sort...flying it around and his kids were chasing it. We walked in and he said something like..this is my first plane...I dont even remember if I acknowledged him and if I did it was a simple reply...my point is...I feel bad about this because this guy now probably thinks we are a couple of first class JERKS...I really wish now I would have taken the time to introduce myself and take an interest in what he was there for...I was so involved and focused on getting my PIE maidened that I probably lost a flying friend...Just had to get that off my chest....Just a reminder to keep things in perspective when out flying...It would have been worth loosing some flying time to take the time out to say hello and let him know we fly all the time at the field and for him to come on out...:(

JediFlyer
09-20-2006, 08:59 PM
Well, wind died down a little so the friend of mine that is helping me get the PIE dialed in gave me a call and wanted to go out before the rugrats hit the field....put the battery forward of where it was to coincide with the CG point at the back of the plastic spar...BAM, SPOT ON...shes a tad nose heavy...but thats OK..She does loose altitude fast with no power and no wind though...just drops down..but when she comes in for a landing...just comes in nice and smooth falls right in...!! :D:D Its fun to see something you built fly like that! Wish I had the guts to dial her in...but maybe next time! I only flew her once she was up, WAY TOO many goals around for me to take off and land without getting in the nets! I will now wait for a calm day to take her out to a bare field the next county over and go to town...PROBLEM..I only have ONE Lipo....looks like I need to invest in another 2100 3S :D Wife aint gonna like that one :cool:

aviatordave
09-20-2006, 10:16 PM
you can get a smaller lipo. I have a 2000 mah and an 1800 mah. The 1800 gives me about a 30 minute run. Of course that means getting to altitude and gliding around. This plane will get caught in thermals and really go sky high....just be ready to drive out of them...they are fun.

Dave

*glad to hear you almost got it dialed in. * of course nose heavy is waaaaay better than tail heavy.

JediFlyer
09-21-2006, 08:53 PM
Well, today I went out and flew the MAP from take off to touch down..take off is a little squirrely...but I just need to learn the exact time to pull up to take off...you can tell by watching there is a point where she gets light and its time. Landing is rather easy...circle around and cut power and she'll drop in with a tiny bit of throttle given to keep up airspeed, not TOO mcuh though cause she wont come down. I have a few questions based on todays flight and handling the plane all on my own.

you can get a smaller lipo. I have a 2000 mah and an 1800 mah. The 1800 gives me about a 30 minute run. Of course that means getting to altitude and gliding around. This plane will get caught in thermals and really go sky high....just be ready to drive out of them...they are fun.
Is that with or without a camera strapped on board. I dont get much time with my 2100 20C...atleast it doenst seem that I do...of course all of my flight time was take-off...get to altitude drop down and then land////repeat. I havent hooked it up to the wattmeter lately, but when I did she would push 30A at full throttle, so I dont go full throttle and if nobody has any negatives to say about it I am going to adjust an endpoint so I cannot get over 26A or so.

We had a slight breeze today and from what I can tell my MAP reacts like this...into the wind...cut power totally you have to hold back on the elevator and she drops altitude...now I assume that means that I could be a little more nose heavy than I want to be OR the weight of the camera (simulated with a NiMH pack) is causing the drop...if I go hands off with no throttle she does nose down, so maybe a combination of moving the simulated camera more towards the rear and a slight move of the battery pack towards the rear will correct this...???

Grasshopper, do you hand launch?

I feel like a NOOOob, even though I dont have THAT much experience, I was pretty confident in flying my EasyStar. I could drop it where I wanted it without any apprehension...I am VERY apprehensive of the approach and landing right now...like I was when I first started flying...maybe its a combination of my experience and a new plane...

:( I did strip a GWS Pico gear out today...BUMMER...on one take-off she listed right and I cut power...she rolled and stripped the gear...:(

aviatordave
09-21-2006, 09:15 PM
wow, you have a manly battery and motor on that plane. My 1800 mah is only 10C and the most my motor pulls is 17 amps. I have a gearbox which makes it a totally different motor....I take off at half - 2/3rds throttle, never really ever have had it wide open to pull max current.....which explains my longer flight times (I turn a 12 x 8 prop). I always have the camera on it, but it only weighs 4.5 oz.

When pointed into the wind I trimmed my plane to fly hands off and hold altitude best it can, hence I added up trim and some right rudder......

It sounds like your still a tad nose heavy...which is fine, but make your changes in very small steps.

One thing you might want to do is write down all the problems and corrections on a notepad, this will make sure you dont backtrack. I also do that with a new camera to find the optimum settings for picture taking.

Lets see what the other guys say.....

(Oh ...I have never hand launched, but my take off run is about or less than the width of a road (on asphalt...grass and gravel require longer runs... and climbs sharply)

Dave

JediFlyer
09-21-2006, 09:23 PM
I am using this motor with an APC 9X4.5E https://st86.startlogic.com/~rcepower/osCommerce1/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=88&osCsid=889c47654d3b87d1dd83121df216f0fc (https://st86.startlogic.com/%7Ercepower/osCommerce1/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=88&osCsid=889c47654d3b87d1dd83121df216f0fc) with a MaxAmp 2100 3s Lipo

Lipo
2100mah Capacity
11.1 Volts Rated at 30 Amp Constant Discharge
Rated at 40 Amp Burst for 10 seconds

Let me tell ya though...I was taking off and she listed right and I floored it and pulled up...WOOOOOOOf straight up! Not something I want to do again :)

Kosh
09-21-2006, 09:42 PM
I also have to go with Dave's WOW !!! 30 amps is fine if your hanging the plane on its prop and doing 3D but it just doesn't need anywhere near the power to fly well. You might think about even dropping the prop size to lose some amps and gain flight time. I set my trim for gliding and use the power mostly to climb. Perhaps a 8x4 or 8x6 prop? Test a few and see what will fly it best for you. Also start testing with your camera so you get the feel where its pointed.
A hand launch really is much different than the EasyStar and it climbs right away just don't use full throttle as you can get into trouble fast with too much power here.

Grasshopper
09-21-2006, 10:11 PM
Well JF, you're using the exact set up I am, except I'm using a 3S 2100 15C pack. Did you re-check your CG after the camera and battery are in? I agree with Dave that it still sounds a tad nose heavy. You can start moving the batery back a 1/4" at a time and see what happens. Do check it each time by balancing it before flying it though. Mine does not nose down when power is cut off. Depending on the wind direction and speed, it will start to descend but very gradually.

Flight times will also vary depending on how I'm flying it but I can easily get 25 or 30 minutes if I'm just climbing up to altitude, cutting off the throttle and floating around. Take offs are like Dave mentioned and are about 10' and then it's up and away. Once she's off the ground about 20', I throttle back a little so I'm not drawing so many amps on take off.

I have never hand launched either but I have held it pointed straight up, opened up the throttle all the way and it was virtually floating. I just haven't had the need to hand launch yet. I always looked at it that if the area was too tight to ROG then I wasn't going to have enough room to land either. With the larger wheels, it will take off out of 4" grass with no problem.

JediFlyer
09-22-2006, 12:33 AM
OK...I backed my throttle end point set to 65%...when at full throttle she wont go over 27A now...here are the numbers after about 20 seconds on the Whats up

27 Amps
280 Watts
10.46 V

The other thing...I am kind of worried about...I did the Whats Up Test like three to five times backing down the throttle end point until I got the amps down...took my battery down to charge and it was at 70% according to my CellPro 4S

Oh BTW...when setting your Throttle end point, just a LITTLE TIP...when you get into the programming mode and you have to put the throttle at full so you can back the percentage down...UNHOOK YOUR BATTERY FROM THE PLANE...just a little tidbit of info :) Luckily I have a couch at the end of my work table :)

JediFlyer
09-22-2006, 02:40 PM
So you had a bad day....

Dont know what happened...I took off and landed 5 or 6 times without incident...Plane took off was up about one mistake high, guess not quite one mistake :eek:, and did something quirky...just rolled over and in she went. Nuthin I could do...NONE of this looks salvagable, except the wing. Electronics are probably OK...the gold part on the motor at the base wont slide off, Prop broke...the Lipo is in the back yard and HOPEFULLY its OK...It got ejected on impact..Looks like the landing gear took most of the force...Im pretty bummed dudes...spent a lot of hours up here on that thang...So fellas...Im havin a bad day...I would try to gorilla glue it back...but I just done know if I trust that type of fix with an expensive camera on board....

Grasshopper
09-22-2006, 03:00 PM
That's too bad JF. Sorry it crashed on you.

Looking at the pictures, I think it looks very repairable. Remember, Its styrofoam. I think the first thing I would do is completely disassemble it, reassemble and bench test the electronics and motor to make sure they all function properly and then start on the plane. I would use Gorilla glue to put the tail surfaces together and let them dry overnight on some wax paper with weights on them so they stay flat. You may even want to reinforce them with some tape over the seam.

Then I would start piecing the fuse back together. You can use Gorilla glue or epoxy in the high stress areas and use Elmers or Titebond in the other areas. Again, I would make sure they are all held flat and dry completely. Use some pieces of styrofoam from packaging or an old cooler to make new pieces to splice in if needed. You can then mix some light weight spackle and water and smooth it in the dents and dings and re tape the colors.

I know it looks bad now and it really does suck that it crashed, but put that Pie back together and get her flying. There's really not that much to these things.

One important thing of course is the battery to make sure it's safe, but then I would try to determine if it was an electronic failure so it doesn't happen again.

Let us know if we can help and good luck getting it back together. You can do it!

Tom

JediFlyer
09-22-2006, 03:29 PM
Here ya go :) Thanks for the support GH...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Urcl2Xf3WU (http://www.illuminationsfx.com/Magpie/MAP.wmv)

Grasshopper
09-22-2006, 03:39 PM
What are you trying to do, make us all cry? Get that thing back together! I think the next photos we should see are some you took from 400 feet up.

JediFlyer
09-22-2006, 03:57 PM
This is the only thing I see that COULD be the cause...all other surfaces, electronics, servos work without a problem...if this is what caused it..it would explain the way it crashed...

I just dont know if this thing is salvagable...Maybe Im just being negative...landing gear attachment is shot...I think 27 bucks might be worth the replacement fuse....I might work on this one on the side...

The Lipo has been outside for a little over an hour and it hasnt started puffin or anything...I dont think it hit that hard...I have put it on charge and will monitor it...all cells came up as balanced and the CellProd didnt shoot me an error...we will see what happens.

tandemssafetyguy
09-22-2006, 04:16 PM
I rebuilt the front of my Magpie with epoxy. I then fiberglassed it and taped it. Just a note on motors. I use a Park 400 outrunner with an 11x4.7 prop. Flys it well. Smaller props seem to make my planes fly faster.

aviatordave
09-22-2006, 04:29 PM
If you decide to replace the fuse......

------------------------------------

If you want to safe some $$$, go to your local Menards, Lowes, Home Depot....buy a 2' x 8' sheet of 2" thick styrofoam ($4.00) which will give you enough material for about 15 bodies. My benchtop scroll saw cuts it nice. (maybe borrow a scroll saw if you dont have one)

If you piece it back together you can get the dimentions easily.

Just a thought, or buy one from MM.

Sorry about your loss, but like GH said, test everything out.

Dave

<edit....I see you have a torn elevator control arm, do you remember if you still had throttle or rudder control before impact?>

JediFlyer
09-22-2006, 04:36 PM
Well..from what I remember...I took off and was up without a hitch swung around with the wind, I was pulling up on the elevator to compensate and then WOOF she nosed straight up, rolled over and nosed in...thats all I remember :confused::(

tandemssafetyguy
09-22-2006, 04:50 PM
My last crash was caused, I believe, by a broken horizonal tail feather. I think the tape covered a broken place from a rough landing. I think it then broke completely whilein the air. I am currently rebuilding the tail by fiberglassing it first. Something like that may have happened to you. I think some of the others on this forum have had similar problems and have found ways of reinforcing the tail. Earlier you asked about hand launching. I almost always hand launch my Magpie. The take offs are too squirilly for me. I am adding a tailwheel on this tail rebuild. Maybe that will help.

JediFlyer
09-22-2006, 11:39 PM
This was the only wittness to the crash..I saw him in the woodline...

Grasshopper
09-23-2006, 12:50 AM
Yep, he'll do it every time!

Ira
09-23-2006, 05:39 PM
Hey Jedi, Sorry to read about your misshap! The ply control horns are my prime suspect. They just did not look like they would hold up to everyday flying for long and I replaced mine with the nylon type. Also it sounds like you had a similar trimming issue to me early on which was solved compleatly by adding a tad more down thrust. I found that it eliminated the tendancy to pitch up unless I went over 1/2 throttle and even then it is just a slight pitch up with rapid climb. This of course is after setting CG. Don't worry about Gorrila glue. the repair will be the strongest part of the plane! I would just uncover the whole thing and bond it back together then recover just as before but add nylon horns and some stiffer pushrods. (carbon or hardwood) Rember "you can't make an omlett without breaking a few eggs" (and boy do I love omletts) :rolleyes: Ira

JediFlyer
09-25-2006, 06:46 PM
I ordered all my fix-em-up parts today...replacement fuselage 47 bucks plus 25 more for hinges, props, Dubro hinges, epoxy and a tailwheel...

Which I made that much money in the second it took to crash :confused:

My friend got it put back together and he flew it yesterday...it was a little gusty/windy for me...I know that others have fixed theirs and taken it up with a load, but I just dont trust it with a 200 dollar camera...I am going to trace out the parts this time in case I need to rebuild the nose or something like that...

I am going to use this one for a play around with model...charging the battery up right now and going to fly in a little while...

JediFlyer
09-29-2006, 09:30 PM
Got my new fuse in yesterday. I am going to trace these parts out so if I need to fix the nose again later I can without a problem :D. I ordered a few different props to test with my motor and I might need to give more info but this is what I got

9x4.5 gets over the amperage recommended by the motor and ESC...34A or so

9x6 even worse than the 9x4.5, it is 36A or so

I did buy a 8x6 and it seems perfect...full throttle only gets 27A almost 28A, BUT it seems to have lost some UMPhf if you know what I mean...course that UMPhf is what causes the amps to skyrocket....Leaning toward the 8x6 and using the 9x4.5 as a backup...

Any suggestions? Is it possible to get the correct amps and be too underpowered as far as prop size...

Kosh
09-29-2006, 09:50 PM
Over proping a motor is really not a bad thing as long as you know the limits. Its like owning a muscle car with 800HP, You just have to know when and how much to use. It would be a RARE day you just put you foot to the floor and left it there to blow a motor. Pretty much the same thing with over proping. Its rare I ever push mine beyond 3/4 throttle as its just not needed and I only have half the motor you do. Use what prop your happy with then deal with throttle management to conserve amps.

JediFlyer
09-30-2006, 05:19 PM
I dont know about your planes...but mine does NOT like up elevator when trying to gain altitude....it goes squirrely...she likes to go up on her own and if I dont give her up elevator it seems she goes up quicker and smoother than when I am trying to force her up....just an observation...may just be my Frank-N-Pie

Kosh
10-01-2006, 04:39 AM
I have been thinking this one over and your right about letting it climb on its own and thats what I do most of the time. I think you should try a little experiment and move your whole battery forward about 3 inches and give it a shot. Make it nose heavy just for a few tests and see if that helps a little. It should fly almost like the standard Magpie even with a camera. If you haven't seen it yet watch "Faith of the Heart", Pulling some loops with camera onboard really isn't as scary as it sounds or looks. Yours should fly as well. You can always add flaps for a slower take off as well.:)

http://www.cascadeap.com/video.html

Ira
10-03-2006, 04:11 AM
Hadn't gotten to posting it here but Magie died in the line of duty 2 weeks ago. Must admit to pilot error being the primary cause. I was doing a shoot in a very tight spot and the winds were shifting to all four points of the compass at 5-8 mph. I have previously decided not to do a spiral decent under these conditions but went ahead anyhow as it looked like the winds were steadying. At the bottom of my decent at the far end of the runway and just as i pulled out and leveled the wind shifted to a strong tailwind and the plane stalled 15 ft above the pavment. WHACK!!! The airframe was totaled. It was possable but not practical to repair it. The expensive parts and wing all survived. I got right on the phone with Brian at Mountian Models and ordered a new kit, it showed up in two days! What service. I realy need this plane for those tight LZ shoots so have worked like a dog to finish it. Here' a pic of "Sweetie Pie". Considering all the "high risk" shoots Magie was subjected to she has been on borrowed time for a while. I will miss her. Magie R.I.P.

Kosh
10-03-2006, 04:25 AM
Looks sweet, Long live your new Magpie !!!

Ira
10-03-2006, 04:33 AM
Thanks Kosh. I'll try to treat her a little nicer ;) Ira

Grasshopper
10-03-2006, 08:34 PM
Sorry to hear about the Pie Ira. The new one looks great. I almost did exactly what you described last weekend. I had a really tight spot I was trying to land it in and had to do a spiral down inside some trees, bring it in kind of hot, then nose it up and nearly stall it to get over a barbed wire fence. Kind of scary but she made it. I think I'm going to take a serious look at Kosh's flap system after that.

Kosh
10-03-2006, 09:01 PM
I have done the same thing more than a few times myself and flaps would have helped some for sure. In Ira's case with the changing winds I'm not sure anything would really help that case but you can imagine the total carnage had it been a SS flying. I tend to think of the Pie fuse as nothing more than protection for my camera and electronics and Ira's case it did just that (No Camera Damage). Lately I have just set them at around 40% down and just leave them there the whole flight. It doesn't climb as fast but thats ok with me as I can loiter over a target at slower speeds now.
The last 2 flights the servo for the flaps wasn't even plugged in but those had good landing areas so full wasn't needed. Being able to almost stop your plane in air still has its uses for tight areas but wont help much in changing winds I fear.