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aviatordave
08-24-2006, 07:33 PM
There is a new AP plane on the horizon, manufactured from Stevens Aero. The talk is in another forum (forgive me :o ), but it looks like the plane will have ailerons & flaps (flaperons) and a low wing loading. The plane is not on the website as of yet, but according to the owner it will be soon.

All I have for AP right now is the Magpie AP and my only beef is lack of ailerons and flaps.......this might be my lucky break! (rudder and dihedral work fine, but ailerons really get the plane pointed where I want it)

Here is the link, sorry to divert you to another forum....AP Stick Prototype (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557206)

and here is where it will be sold: Stevens Aero (http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/home.php)

Any comments or concerns?

tandemssafetyguy
08-24-2006, 09:55 PM
I like my Magpie AP, too. Why can't the wing be built with less dihedral and add ailerons with flaps. I have the Stevens Aerostik. It seems to have the same dihedral as the Magpie and it has ailerons.

Grasshopper
08-24-2006, 10:01 PM
Would it be possible to add ailerons to the Magpie? I would think you could make some strip balsa ailerons and mount a servo in the top of the wing. Wouldn't look the prettiest but hey, is the Magpie really very pretty anyway?

tandemssafetyguy
08-24-2006, 10:07 PM
I have an extra AP wing. I would like to try ailerons and flaps to use with a Co-Pilot. Has any tried this before?

Eric_N57105
08-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Ok, I've never done AP. I'm saving from my Social Security check to buy a camera next month (thanks, working guys!). But in the mean time, I'm collecting as much info as I can.

I read the link and all I see is improvements to the SS which should have been done in the first place just for normal flying! I don't see anything in the post that relates to why it is good for AP.

The prop on the front limits where the camera can go. Anywhere you mount the camera, it is vulnerable or seriously in the slip stream. There are no real accommodations for hard points for a camera or camera mount.

What is it that makes this an AP airplane? What don't I get?

Eric
www.ke6us.com

sierra-gold
08-25-2006, 02:58 AM
I have an extra AP wing. I would like to try ailerons and flaps to use with a Co-Pilot. Has any tried this before?

I ordered from Doug (a while back) an AP wing that he cut in the same dihedral as the SP wing and cut a ply joiner for it. I simply added some depron ailerons (1 1/2" by full wing span strips). The wing is using one servo and the ailerons function well. I haven't used it for AP as my left thumb doesn't work rudder well. :)

Easily done and two servos would offer spoilerons.

R/E

aviatordave
08-25-2006, 03:02 AM
What don't I get?

Well your right, they didnt put any camera mount on this. I'm just wondering if they are saving that when they go public? The landing gear was another weak point from what I saw. The wing with the flaperons is a strong plus - I'll have to wait and see what they offer when they sell it.

The magpie (for me) would be better if it had a smaller dihedral and flaperons - I actually talked to Kosh (another magpie owner) about that awhile ago and am still considering it. - Buy a wing kit from Mountain models, install about 1/3 of the dihedral, and use depron for the flaperons with a servo on each side (a BEC would be needed).

I'm going to wait and see what they do to this plane when they sell it. If its nothing then I will go with a new wing. Some people are happy with the rudder only steering, but I've always used ailerons and its just easier for me to get the plane where I need it with them.

Dave

Eric_N57105
08-25-2006, 04:39 AM
Well your right, they didnt put any camera mount on this. I'm just wondering if they are saving that when they go public? The landing gear was another weak point from what I saw. The wing with the flaperons is a strong plus - I'll have to wait and see what they offer when they sell it.

The magpie (for me) would be better if it had a smaller dihedral and flaperons - I actually talked to Kosh (another magpie owner) about that awhile ago and am still considering it. - Buy a wing kit from Mountain models, install about 1/3 of the dihedral, and use depron for the flaperons with a servo on each side (a BEC would be needed).

I'm going to wait and see what they do to this plane when they sell it. If its nothing then I will go with a new wing. Some people are happy with the rudder only steering, but I've always used ailerons and its just easier for me to get the plane where I need it with them.

Dave

Well, it isn't just that it doesn't have a camera mount. It just doesn't seem to be anything more than a better flying Slow Stick! Believe me, I'm not knocking it. I have a couple of Stevens Aero models on my "To Buy" list.

I'm just trying to understand what specialized features it has specifically to make it an AP version. I understand the Magpie can actually be constructed differently as an AP version and the changes make sense.


Thanks for the note, Dave. Hope to be able to contribute something when I can finally get a camera.

Eric
www.ke6us.com

Kosh
08-25-2006, 05:18 AM
The wing looks very nice and lite but I'm just not sure what I really need ailerons for in the first place. My plan was to just use the stock wing and add 1 servo on top to deploy both flaps. I thought flaps about 12" long and 3" wide tapering down to 1". Deployed at 30 to 40 degrees should make it drop fairly nice. I like the idea of MM cutting a custom wing because you get just what you want with a simple fast build. If I find a spare servo around here I will try out my flap idea with some pics.

Grasshopper
08-25-2006, 05:38 AM
The wing looks very nice and lite but I'm just not sure what I really need ailerons for in the first place. My plan was to just use the stock wing and add 1 servo on top to deploy both flaps. I thought flaps about 12" long and 3" wide tapering down to 1". Deployed at 30 to 40 degrees should make it drop fairly nice. I like the idea of MM cutting a custom wing because you get just what you want with a simple fast build. If I find a spare servo around here I will try out my flap idea with some pics.

I'm anxious to see how the flaps work on your Magpie. It seems it would make it even easier to get in and out of tight spaces. I would assume this would let you come in slower and need less roll out?

Kosh
08-25-2006, 05:49 AM
I'm anxious to see how the flaps work on your Magpie. It seems it would make it even easier to get in and out of tight spaces. I would assume this would let you come in slower and need less roll out?

Well thats the idea but its never as easy as just adding on a set and they work. I'm sure some elevator will need to be mixed when there down and thats just a trail and error kinda thing that takes a little time to work out. Will shoot for something this weekend and a new thread all about what I try.

Kosh
08-25-2006, 06:55 AM
I have also looked at a 3 part wing from "Nasty Toes" that could fill our needs for the right price. Have a look and see what you think?
http://nastytoesaviation.com/wings.asp?page_id=62&Page_Name=Wings

Warden
08-25-2006, 11:59 AM
Kosh, Cool website! Buy the component parts and let your imagination run wild!

aviatordave
08-25-2006, 02:38 PM
I have also looked at a 3 part wing from "Nasty Toes" that could fill our needs for the right price. Have a look and see what you think?
http://nastytoesaviation.com/wings.asp?page_id=62&Page_Name=Wings


Hey Kosh,

I actually bought a wing from him, its got the neutral panel and 2 outer panels.....I made it like a 'poly' (3 sections vs 4) wing. I believe it has the eppler 423 high lift airfoil. I planned on using it on a homebuilt that sort of took a backburner since I modded my original magpie camera mount (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7360).

George at Nasty Toes is a great guy to buy from, he actually had a couple other neutral panels laying around his shop and he threw them in free of charge, he just put a note in saying he hopes I had a use for them.

Below is a pic of my other 'stork' looking plane with the new wing. If anyone wants a neutral panel let me know (eppler 423 high lift, high drag)

I might give the flap idea some thought for the magpie, I have the depron and an extra new hs-55 sitting at home.

?? Can a CC25 handle 3 hs-55's and a prism ?? anyone know?

Dave

aviatordave
09-23-2006, 02:40 PM
Looks like its an upgrade to the trusty old SlowStick. So if your interested in a wing and tail kit, here ya go.....
--------------------------------------------------------------

Here is some info from the website:

SOARstik - Multi purpose aerial platform.

The "SOARstik” wing kit by Stevens AeroModel is offered as an upgrade to your GWS Slow Stick or as a complete model with basic stick fuselage. The SOARstik is an extended span variation of our original "stik" platform and has been completely re-designed to accomodate the additional stresses of AP payloads. The Take advantage of the SOARstik platform to thermal in exceptionally light lift or tote aloft your favorite light AP (Aerial Photography) rig.
The wing kit is constructed from AAA hand selected balsa designed, cut, and kitted right here in the USA. Our efficient design and hand selected wood allows us to maximize strength while keeping weight in check. The entire wing frames in about 1 hour and has been designed to be simple to cover and resist warping. This wing kit features a robust hardwood leading edge, strong wood I-Beam construction, and rigid trussed ribs. The design has been developed with first time builders in mind and completely interlocks like a 3-D puzzle you simply cannot make a mistake! Solid trailing edge, ailerons, and empennage resist damage from storage (hangar rash) and easily absorb the bumps and bruises of training far better than your old foam trainer.
Requires:
1 - Slow Stick or prior purchase of "stik" kit
1 - EPS350C-CS Motor - 10x8SF Prop
4 - Sub-Micro Servos (HS-55)
1 - 6" Y Harness
2 - Rolls of AeroLITE (solite) covering
1 - 1/2 oz. Thin CA Glue.
Suggested for lite AP work:
1 - 150-200W Brushless Outrunner
1 - 18-20A Brushless ESC

here is the guys website.....I personally have never used them, but heard good things about them

http://stevensaero.com/shop/product.php?productid=18656&cat=0&page=1

-Dave

Don E
09-26-2006, 03:04 PM
Hey Kosh,

I actually bought a wing from him, its got the neutral panel and 2 outer panels.....I made it like a 'poly' (3 sections vs 4) wing. I believe it has the eppler 423 high lift airfoil. I planned on using it on a homebuilt that sort of took a backburner since I modded my original magpie camera mount (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7360).

George at Nasty Toes is a great guy to buy from, he actually had a couple other neutral panels laying around his shop and he threw them in free of charge, he just put a note in saying he hopes I had a use for them.

Below is a pic of my other 'stork' looking plane with the new wing. If anyone wants a neutral panel let me know (eppler 423 high lift, high drag)

I might give the flap idea some thought for the magpie, I have the depron and an extra new hs-55 sitting at home.

?? Can a CC25 handle 3 hs-55's and a prism ?? anyone know?

Dave

Dave,

I use 2 hs-55's for the tail, 2 gws pico's for the flaps, and an hs-81 for the shutter. All on a CC25. I did a test with a watts up meter. I stalled the shutter servo, and waggled the rest of them as much as I could and the peak current was less than 1 amp. I've used this setup in the air and have had no problems. The esc dosn't even get warm.

I looked at Steve's new AP stick (on the web site) and I like the tapered flaperons. Looks like a good small space flyer.

I can personally recomend Kosh's flaps as a valuable upgrade to the stock Magpie AP wing. Now what about tapered flaperons? should still give you the effect of the flaps and have the roll control your after.

What do you think?

BTW, I like the 'stork' looking plane. I realize its not done but how will it compare to the MPAP as far as size/weight?

Nice work!

Don

Kosh
09-27-2006, 04:51 AM
I have been using flaperons on my Mini Ultra Stick to land and love them. There really no reason you cant change out your flaps for tapered flaperons on a Pie. Just move the servos leads to 1 and 6 on the RX and program in about 70% drop. For roll control I would be surprised if it really needed more then 60% throws to be very effective.

aviatordave
09-27-2006, 06:38 PM
BTW, I like the 'stork' looking plane. I realize its not done but how will it compare to the MPAP as far as size/weight?

Don


The stork plane is a couple inches longer and has a bigger rudder. The airfoil is slightly undercambered for slow flight, and has around 600 in^.

It kind of took a back seat as I solved my forward camera issue with the magpie. I still have it sitting there collecting dust :o . I assume the weight would be around 40oz.

Dave

(I'll give the esc a workout on the ground and see what happens...:eek: )

Don E
09-27-2006, 08:45 PM
I went to CC website to try and find the specs on the CC25's bec. They didn't give an actual number, but rather,said this...
"The BEC is thermally protected and will shut down, then immediately come back on without being damaged, if the servo load is too much."
Mine has never shut down.
An Electrifly SS-25 that I have says that it has a "powerful 2.0A BEC" So I wasen't all that alarmed when I tested less than half of that on a "good" ESC.

Hope that helps.

Don

BobbyDog
09-29-2006, 05:13 AM
Hey all,

Here are the stock Magpie sport ailerons. Pretty simple, took me a couple hours to install everything. I could count the times I've used the rudder on one hand, usually only in wind storms. I would just move the servo from the rudder to the wing and do without rudder all together if I didnt have the extra channel. Mind you I've never flown a AP Magpie, so I'll just shut up now ;)

Bob

P.S. The CC Phoenix ESC I just bought says "Now with 3A BEC" on the cover.

DryFlyer
10-18-2006, 02:10 AM
I like the Soarstik, the added wing area makes it just right for hauling my little 35mm olympus...
Their "stik" kits are just what I had been looking for, to fill the gap between the foamies and the serious stuff.... Top notch kits, and nice folks to do business with.

bluejay
12-13-2006, 07:19 PM
Hi. I've been flying ap for about 9 months & operating a computer for about 2 months, so I hope this reaches you. I started out with a magpie and modified it after each mishap, thus the name bluejay.
the a/c in your post is just what I've been pondereing. Something about great minds... . I like foam, it's compatable with my type of flying. my question is : does this plane already exist ? plans? I have an axi 2808/20 and lipos. Since I live at 8000feet asl I need a big wing and low wing loading. Also, runways here consist of anywhere you think the potato rocks won't strip the landing gear out. I shoot a sony ds6 with a attached micro wireless video that downloads to a dvd player so I get real time data. I've got some ideas I 'd like to share and I really want to thank you for this forum- AP puts r/c/and fun all together for me.

aviatordave
12-15-2006, 06:38 PM
Hey Bluejay,

sounds like you have a nice setup already..

what kind of a/c are you looking at that has the bigger wing? I'd like to see or hear some of your ideas -

Dave

bluejay
12-18-2006, 11:23 PM
Dave. Thanks for the reply. As soon as I figure out how to post thumbnail s I show you some pics. My current plane looks alike a magpie with a flat bottom wing, very little dihedral, 12" chord,and 60" wingspan. It weighs about 60 oz. flying weight. I called you to discuss a delivery system for beneficial insects for organic farmers. Ive been incontact with a local farm advisory company who is interested in testing feesibility. It's something we could use electric ap planes for ifdone right. Good flyin& buildin!!~

aviatordave
12-19-2006, 04:33 AM
that was you that called? My daughter had the phone and said some guy from CO called. I mad the mistake of letting her use it for a week until she got a new one. Her messages overtook mine and I had no clue who from CO it was.

Sorry bout that :o

nakelp86
12-24-2006, 03:04 AM
I have also looked at a 3 part wing from "Nasty Toes" that could fill our needs for the right price. Have a look and see what you think?
http://nastytoesaviation.com/wings.asp?page_id=62&Page_Name=Wings

Looking good
wonder if they can precut spar holes or grooves.

nakelp86
12-24-2006, 03:06 AM
Hey Dave
this is bit off topic but,
was that your (bird look like) plane design I stumbled on a while ago??

aviatordave
12-24-2006, 04:49 AM
Hey Dave
this is bit off topic but,
was that your (bird look like) plane design I stumbled on a while ago??

yea......

that stork looking thing is still on the shelf. Since I got the magpie to look forward/backwards, it solved all my problems :)

Flyer 1
12-24-2006, 06:57 AM
Since I've already got the initial go-ahead from two local realtors who're interested in local pics of their marketed houses/properties, I'm feeling the itch to construct a AP bird that REALLY nails down all the necessary requirements.
I realize the Magpies and 'Stick planes are great (my current APer is a 'stick), but truthfully they don't meet our goals as well as they could. I believe it's time to think completely outside the envelope and design from the ground up.
I realize there are some pros here, and that this might seem a bit extreme an attitude. Still, hear me out for a sec.
First, in MY case (not necessarily anyone elses), the area I'd be working in is VERY heavily covered with foliage, i.e., 100 - foot plus trees (anyone who's seen one of my videos knows this!). That, plus the lack of takeoff and landing space, is going to require something that takes off and lands from some pretty darned tight areas, up to and including unpaved back alleys, some of which aren't fifty feet long.
I can fly a helicopter with a reasonable degree of skill, but frankly don't like them that much. I've just got to accept the fact I'm a "fixed-wing" guy. That, and the fact that they're a bit expensive for my budget and that I can't build them myself makes them a non-option.
Since I've been flying long enough to be able to wring the dickens out of anything with fixed wings (as I suspect most of us here in the AP section can), I'm confident in my abilities as-is with my current equipment. However, there IS going to come a time when the street in front of the house to be photographed is either too short, potholed, or screened over with trees - very common in our Village - I need a plane that can take off almost instantly and either fly straight up through a hole in the foliage ( my current method), or one that flies slow enough to literally circle around in a 30-foot circle until above the trees and at good altitude for the shots/video. Unfortunately, a plane meeting those requirements is going to have be by nature very lightweight and likely fragile. That's true of all the 'stick designs by nature. The Magpie isn't particularly fragile, of course, but in my experience isn't manueverable enough to thread it's way through a ten-by-ten foot hole in the treetops. I've only flown the standard Magpies (both wings) and not the AP version, but I'd bet it's a bit less manueverable than the originals.
I've designed plenty of RC planes and also am a full-sized Ultralight designer. The design I'm putting the finishing touches on now is inspired by a relatively ancient Ultralight called the "Pterodaktyl", a canard design.
The main details: It's to be a dual-wing plane, with the front wing located above the fuse centerline and the rear at the bottom of it. In fact the landing gear will be wing-mounted. Not only that, it will have four wheels. The tail will be standard configuration though it'll be considerably oversized.
Continued below...

Flyer 1
12-24-2006, 07:27 AM
Continued:
The wings will be adjustable in flight for span. This is achieved by using a hollow main wing with an inner wing tha telescoping out on each side. Currently the plane has a 5 ft. span which increases to 8 feet, or 18 inches per wing. The outer "sleeve" wing will be fiberglass, made over a styrofoam wing "blank". After glassing, the inner foam will be removed by standard tools then melted completely away with acetone. It'll be a very strong, light structure. The extensions are similiar.
Think "dragonfly" from a top view but with a much larger distance between wings, 2 1/2 feet in actuality. Front and rear will be the same size. The motor will mount between the wings in tractor fashion, but it's angle will be adjustable to over 45 down thrust. I won't discuss the actual AP equipment mounting here.
Here's the advantages.
The dual-wing delivers much more lift. It won't suffer the reduced efficiency most biplanes experience 'cause the upper wing is not only placed farther above the botton as usual but also is far forward - eliminating the "ground effect" the upper wing gives the lower on a standard bipe.
Powered by a brushless outrunner, it'll be able to clim in that close-to-vertical manner better than standard configurations because the tail feathers will be very close to the prop and consequently be extremely effective at slow flight speeds. One won't have to work hard adjusting attitude and yaw on the way up - it'll almost seem like "power" steering. Also, the canard effect will be present, nearly eliminating stall possibilities.
Airborne, the wings are extended, lowering the required flight speed a LOT and offering a slower but still ultra-stable photography platform. Instead of many fast passes to ensure a good series of shots, a couple of short ones will be enough.
Finally, the main advantage: the fore wing's angle of attack can be increased. Not for control purposes, but as a takeoff/landing enhancement. When the angle is increased and the engine's thrust angle increased downward, the result will be a stalled fore wing almost immediately, putting the plane in a nose-high attitude with the plane flying just fast enough to prevent a stall condition with the rear wing. The motor, in it's new position, be pushing the aircraft forward as well as upward.
In short - the airplane will rise like a kite in a strong wind, and land almost like a parachute, nearly vertically - the motor now is emulating the effect of a kite's string.
I've been too wordy. Comments on this design would be appreciated, and once the final plan is finished I'll post a pic.
Flyer

nakelp86
12-24-2006, 12:50 PM
Dave
since I have CNC for foam I was thinking..................hmmm
Darn, very little time.
But..................................