E3d Anyone?

[rcflyer7]

Is any one flying the E3D by cermark? If you are what set up are you flying in it? I am very interested in getting this to fly but I am not up on the speecs on motors. I would prefer a axi set up if that is possible. I would like to stay away from gearboxes if I can.
Rich

[Mike Parsons]

There are a few of these at my field. I flew (yep..past tense :) ) mine with a Mega 22/30/2 geared 3:1, 3S3P Thunderpower, Pheonix 80, 17X10. 53 amps and a whole lot of fun. Another hot setup is a Kontronik 500-27, 3S3P, P-80, 16x10 for about 700 watts. Another is a Hacker B50 9S, 3S3P P-80, 16x10 for 700+. Another guy at my field had the Cermark power package. Cant remember the specifics, but it is on their webpage.

Here is a 20mb video of the Mega setup above. (http://epowerflight.com/Media/sample/banchee.wmv)

[NCguy]

Is any one flying the E3D by cermark? If you are what set up are you flying in it? I am very interested in getting this to fly but I am not up on the speecs on motors. I would prefer a axi set up if that is possible. I would like to stay away from gearboxes if I can.
Rich

Rich, there is a gary wright E3D by gary wright and there is a banchee E3D by cermark which most people call the "banchee". ALthough similar they are different models.

I have a banchee and am flying it with a kontronics fun500 which has a built-in planetary gearbox. There are several people using AXI's with this plane which I have seen on the banchee thread on ezone.

[rcflyer7]

ncguy,
How do they fly on the axi's? I would rather fly a direct motor like the axi rather than bother with the gear box.
All this while I thought that the cermark one was the same one that gary wright made originally? Are you sure that they aren't one in the same?
Rich

[NCguy]

ncguy,
How do they fly on the axi's? I would rather fly a direct motor like the axi rather than bother with the gear box.
All this while I thought that the cermark one was the same one that gary wright made originally? Are you sure that they aren't one in the same?
Rich

I'm quite sure they are different models.

See for yourself:

http://www.gwmp.net/HTML/E3D.htm

http://www.cermark.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=C&Product_Code=CER-A108B&Category_Code=AAA

Anyhow if you want to use an outrunner the Hacker A30 does extremely well in Gary Wrights E3D but its too small for the Cermark Banchee. People who love outrunners have put the larger AXI's in the Banchee but they just arent matched as well as the Hacker A30/Gary Wright E3D.

If you really want to go outrunner I would suggest the A30 and the Gary Wright E3D. But honestly with the built-in planetary gearbox on the kontronics motor there is NO messing with gears. Its one piece sealed from the factory. Its also very quiet. It is also a lot more expensive than say the HAcker A30 outrunner.

[gwright]

The E3D works well with the Hacker A30 12XL at about 400 or so watts input power. The Banchee-E3D is also a great flying airplane, but is quite a bit heavier, thus requiring more input power. I would not choose an outrunner like an axi for the Banchee. I fly a Hacker B50 9S in my Banchee with a 3S3P pack and a 16X10 prop. It's in the 600 watt range for power since it's close to a pound heavier than the E3D. To get enough performance from an outrunner, you would need a much larger and heavier outrunner. Outrunners are generally less efficient than the geared inside runner. Their main positive is that they are usually a lot less expensive. The negatives are that they are not as efficient, and for the same output level, you will end up with a heavier power system. With the E3D being almost a pound lighter, and the hacker outrunner being a very efficient outrunner, it's a great combo, that's also very economical.My E3D's end up in the 3 lb range with a 3S3P/6000mah pack,and with a small pack, they've been flown as low as 44 ounces. The banchee-E3D ends up about 64 to 68 ounces with the same 3S3P pack, If you go the axi route for a Banchee, you'll need either the 11.5 ounce, or the 14 ounce motor, compared to the 8.5 ounce geared B50, so you'd add about another quarter pound to the equation. The 9S with gearbox has a LOT of flights on my banchee and has never required any maintanence. Cheap gearboxes have given a bad name to gearboxes in general. Get a good gearbox like the planetary on the B50 and that system is no more trouble than a direct drive, and you gain efficiency and lose weight,.. the only negative is that it costs more.
As for the Banchee-E3D and the original E3D,.. there are some things similar in the basic numbers,..i.e. airfoils, moments,..etc. but they're not the same airplane.

[Mike Parsons]

I have merged the duplicate thread in General Electrics to this thread. Good information here :)

[rcflyer7]

Thanks for the advice Gary,
I saw one of your original models fly with an external gear set up and NI-cads and I was impressed as all get out with the model. i have been fooling around with some of the foamies and outside in the slightest breeze they are a pain in the keister.....not much fun. Your e3d has been on my mind for a while now, and now that I know that i can get a internal gear set up without all of the un airplane like noise associated with the external gear box I am going to make the jump.
One thing though I was on your site a couple of days ago and am I correct that you make it as an ARF now? If that is the case I will be putting in an order to you asap.
Rich

[NCguy]

I'm quite sure they are different models.

See for yourself:

http://www.gwmp.net/HTML/E3D.htm

http://www.cermark.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=C&Product_Code=CER-A108B&Category_Code=AAA

Anyhow if you want to use an outrunner the Hacker A30 does extremely well in Gary Wrights E3D but its too small for the Cermark Banchee. People who love outrunners have put the larger AXI's in the Banchee but they just arent matched as well as the Hacker A30/Gary Wright E3D.

If you really want to go outrunner I would suggest the A30 and the Gary Wright E3D. But honestly with the built-in planetary gearbox on the kontronics motor there is NO messing with gears. Its one piece sealed from the factory. Its also very quiet. It is also a lot more expensive than say the HAcker A30 outrunner.


Did I answer your question or was i just trumped?

[rcflyer7]

ncguy,
No please don't think that I snubbed you at all. I was on garys site and I think that his e3d is an arf now......I think that it is, either that or he was showing Cermarks arf. I am confused on this one, I know that his original plane was a kit, and now he is showing now an arf.

[rcflyer7]

OK I just went to his site again and now he shows the e3d kit has been discontinued and it is now offered as an ARF. This is good. I have been building kits for about 30 years and I am burned out on the building end of the hobby. I will get the hacker set up that Gary was talking about.
Thanks guys

[gwright]

The E3D was originally a kit. We now have an ARF and I've discontinued the kits.

[NCguy]

OK I just went to his site again and now he shows the e3d kit has been discontinued and it is now offered as an ARF. This is good. I have been building kits for about 30 years and I am burned out on the building end of the hobby. I will get the hacker set up that Gary was talking about.
Thanks guys

Good luck. Its a great model. You'll love flying it !!

[rcflyer7]

Gary,
I will be calling you in a couple of days and put an order in for one. I don't do paypal so I will probably send you a money order. Oh by the way what esc do you use for the hacker?
Rich

[gwright]

I've always used the hacker master 40 but recently tried the new "economy" X-40 ESC from them and it works great, and saves some bucks too. I would recommend a U-bec to power the radio. The bec in the ESC's work well, but they're pushed a bit hard with the servos I use. 3102 futabas have a lot of torque and draw a good bit of current, so using 4 of them is like 5 or 6 of the lower power servos some people use. the U-bec is only 30 bucks or so,.. and is good peace of mind

[NCguy]

I would recommend a U-bec to power the radio. The bec in the ESC's work well, but they're pushed a bit hard with the servos I use. 3102 futabas have a lot of torque and draw a good bit of current, so using 4 of them is like 5 or 6 of the lower power servos some people use. the U-bec is only 30 bucks or so,.. and is good peace of mind

6 volt?

[Mike Parsons]

I would use a 6 volt to get the most out of 3102's. That is what I am using in mine.

-Mike

[rcflyer7]

At the risk of sounding really stupid....I know what the ubec is but do you use it before the receiver, and if you do why bother when you are running an 11.1 volt pack. I think that I need some one to explain some theory to me.
Thanks Rich

[NCguy]

At the risk of sounding really stupid....I know what the ubec is but do you use it before the receiver, and if you do why bother when you are running an 11.1 volt pack. I think that I need some one to explain some theory to me.
Thanks Rich

The speed control has a built in BEC (battery eliminator circuit) that regulates the power that is supplying the receiver and servos. It is somewhat less than 6 volts , not the full battery 11.x volts, and can be unreliable with servos that draw a lot of current. Worse case it will run out of juice and stall the power going to the receiver and then you're cooked (crash time). This can happen when your battery has a full charge on it.

A UBEC replaces the BEC circuit in the speed control. It goes between the battery and the receiver. You have to disable the BEC in the speed control by eliminating the power wire going to the receiver from the speed control. Most people just pull the pin from the connector and preserve the lead. When you get the UBEC it will have a full wiring diagram but it is very easy to install. I mean like a 5 minute install. The UBEC will never stall like the BEC can in the speed control. If your going to be using futaba 3102 servos ask for the 6-volt version of the UBEC.

[rcflyer7]

Thanks ncguy,
The more that I delve into this the more that I am learning. I guess that going from the simple foamies to the more advanced electrical end of things there is more to know.
Rich

[rcflyer7]

I was surfing and looking at the Hacker site this morning and the A30-12xl looks to be an out runner, but I did not see the gearbox with it. Who do you recomend to buy the Hacker line off of?
Rich

[Mike Parsons]

The A30-12XL is a pure outrunner. No GB needed. On 3S swinging a 14X10 should yeild around 400 watts. I am reviewing this plane with that exact motor. First flight should be next weekend.

If Gary doesnt carry them, I recommend www.Stevensaero.com next. Cliff @ www.atlantahobby will be carrying the Hacker line at some point as well, but he doesnt have them in stock yet.
-Mike

[rcflyer7]

Mike,
Who are you reviewing the set up for? Do you work for a mag. or are you just trying it for your own personal review?
Rich

[Mike Parsons]

This one will be published for RCU. I write reviews for a couple of rags as well.

[gwright]

I use a 14X7 mike, but I may change to a 15X8 like others have on the 12XL. I think the 14X7 is just a wee bit mild, but i would think a 14X10 would be way too much pitch speed. Also,.. in the E3D, I think I only have a 5V u-bec, not 6V, although I should probably change that. The only downside to the 3102's is that they're just a tiny bit slower than others (.25 instead of .22 transit time) and 6V u-bec would change that

[Mike Parsons]

Thanks for the tip Gary. I mispoke on the 14X10 as it is a 14x8.5 that I have upon double checking. I have some 15X8's as well, so it would be good to try them.
On the UBEC, I changed out the 5v from my Banchee in favor of the 6v I picked up from Jeff and there was a noticable difference. I kept telling myself it was in my head, but the 3102's just seemed a bit more lively :).


-Mike