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aircruiser
08-26-2006, 05:52 AM
This isn't a devistating kit crash that costed me 30 man hours of work and $400 so sorry if it isn't the greatest story, but it's a lucky one!

Today I went up flying with my commander 2, my brother, and my friend after yesterday's scary incident and immediatly I noticed there was a problem. My plane went into a full left death spin. I slowed it down as much as possible and hit the gras in the field.

I ran out and got it, brought it back, and turns out the right ruddervator came undone and was just pointing straight up. I fixed it and went up again. As I was turning right over the forest that is right after you take off, a huge wind came, made my plane go straight up, stall, and come straight down and curve and level out straight into the tallest tree in the middle of the forest about 50 feet up. I hit the trunk and my commander 2 bounced 20 feet backwards and fell 48 ft and landed safely in some branches on a tree below. I ran out and got it and noticed the prop was missing, my wing folded up and has a huge dent in it and is torn beyond repair, but my fusalage is intact and my battery was still in my plane and I let out a huge sigh of relief. My ruddervator came off so it's time for a new tail and wing. But I'm just glad I still have my plane.

SDB1
08-26-2006, 08:58 AM
Believe me when I tell you to ditch the Commander 2 and get a Slow Stick! It is Super Easy to fly! I don't know how people fly a plane with no elevator and a weak motor like the Commander comes with. I started with a Commander 2 and after three or four trips back to the hobby store I decided the plane was the problem! Guess what? No more crashes and I have a new love for R/C Airplanes.

aircruiser
08-26-2006, 08:20 PM
Yeah, I just wish I had that kind of money. :(

cbatters
09-28-2006, 06:19 PM
Believe me when I tell you to ditch the Commander 2 and get a Slow Stick! It is Super Easy to fly! I don't know how people fly a plane with no elevator and a weak motor like the Commander comes with. I started with a Commander 2 and after three or four trips back to the hobby store I decided the plane was the problem! Guess what? No more crashes and I have a new love for R/C Airplanes.

I regained my love for RC when I got a plane that had no elevator, rudder or ailerons - only two motors used for power and thrust vector steering (mounted safely behind the wing) Plane glides like a dream and my thumbs provide pseudo-proportional control by pulsing throttle / vector for very controlled flight.

My original entry into the sport was underpowered 2M electric sailplane flying in way too much wind. Many of the beginner flying problems are caused by flying in too much wind - including this crash - not the fault of the plane. (I have serious doubts if a novice with pitch controls would have done any better.)

The only negative i have read about the commander is that after takeoff, you need to throttle down to 50-75% or it will porpois up/down when climbing. challenger allows you to easily trim the plane while flying for climbing, cruising, gliding

I have a challenger (commander with pitch control) and haven't noticed a lack of power. I guess it's just what you get used to.


Clint

aircruiser
09-28-2006, 09:15 PM
My dad also has a challenger, he is on his 2nd fusalage (spelling).


He has hit the ground about 3 times full force with the original and it funally broke when he bent the tail boom and tried to heat it up and bend it back in place and it snapped.

cbatters
11-06-2006, 02:50 PM
Flew a Commander II for the first time this weekend. I bought for my 7 year old son to graduate from a 2 channel thrust vector plane. Trimmed properly, the Commander flies like a champ with no bad habits. (As expected, the plane turns flatter than the Challenger.)

My son had zero problems flying it and is having a blast with ROG takeoff and landing on a packed dirt / grass soccer field. (He flew three batteries and hasn't put a scratch on the plane yet.)

My goal is to have him get a good feel for proportional throttle and rudder control before introducing him to pitch control. He is also learning to fly the entire field instead of just going around in circles.

(When I ask him how old he is he replies "12 and up", just like it says on the box.)



Clint

aircruiser
11-06-2006, 07:23 PM
Yeah, yesterday I crashed mine into a tree again.

I had the ruddervators adjusted way to high.

cbatters
11-06-2006, 07:42 PM
Yeah, yesterday I crashed mine into a tree again.

I had the ruddervators adjusted way to high.

2 questions:

1. Same or different tree?

2. What was wrong with your ruddervator adjustment?



Clint

aircruiser
11-06-2006, 07:54 PM
1. Same park, different tree.

2. I had them adjusted for to much height gain so all it would do is take off, stall, dive, stall again. I was flying near the parking lot trying to bring it in and it went up, stalled, about to hit the ground so I hit the throttle and it went up and right into the tree.

cbatters
11-06-2006, 07:59 PM
1. Same park, different tree.

2. I had them adjusted for to much height gain so all it would do is take off, stall, dive, stall again. I was flying near the parking lot trying to bring it in and it went up, stalled, about to hit the ground so I hit the throttle and it went up and right into the tree.

Are you talking about the position of the L/R control surfaces or the angle of the tail?

Adjusting the control surface above the plane of the tail surfaces will also result in stronger turns with a corresponding loss in altitude because you will be applying up on one surface while the other surface goes down.

Much more docile if you adjust to near neutral.



Clint

aircruiser
11-06-2006, 08:02 PM
Yeah, I think we're on the same page here.

The rear ruddervators that control the steering and such were adjusted. When I hit that tree the first time, I had to get a new tail and the new one wouldn't take off so i adjusted it, apparently for to much lift.

cbatters
11-06-2006, 08:29 PM
Yeah, I think we're on the same page here.

The rear ruddervators that control the steering and such were adjusted. When I hit that tree the first time, I had to get a new tail and the new one wouldn't take off so i adjusted it, apparently for to much lift.

I did something very similar on the Firebird II - adding up elevator on both sides to increase angle of attack. Plane was out of control from the moment it left my hand.

Commander II trimmed correctly is a delight to fly. Trimmed incorrectly it is a beast out of control.

In many respects, it is harder to tune a Commander than any 3 channel plane with rudder/elevator transmitter trims because the Commander trim has to be done on the ground followed by a test flight. Best way I have found to trim it is with hand launches until you are confident the trim is flight-worthy.

Relative position of the front/rear tail attachment screws sets the angle of the tail which controls the angle of attack/lift of the main wing. Crude but effective. If you are not thinking about this as you install a new tail you could be in a world of hurt on the first flight.


Clint

aircruiser
11-06-2006, 08:38 PM
Very true, the controller trim does very little...

cbatters
11-06-2006, 08:42 PM
Related problem / solution:

I had problems with my Challenger trim stability which I finally realized was due to a stripped front tail attachment mount. I would tighten it and everything was "normal" but when it slipped, the plane was way out of trim and required a lot of up elevator just to keep it in the air.

The weird part was that the control surfaces looked completely normal / neutral. The problem was that the front edge of the entire tail had shifted up slightly which had a dramatic effect on the trim.

Moral to the story is to not to overly tighten the screws and pay careful attention to the tail angle which has a huge impact on the attitude of the plane.



Clint

aircruiser
11-07-2006, 02:29 AM
My dad has a challenger that he has smashed a few times, it is broken now, but it usually comes back. I like my super cub most, but the commander 2 has great memories and it was and is a great first plane.

cbatters
11-07-2006, 12:48 PM
I am impressed with how well the Commander II flies - the only "problem" is that it MUST be trimmed correctly or you WILL have a bad experience. Two extra turns on the front screw and you would spend the entire flight stalling/diving. Two less turns and you would swear that you bought a brick and not an airplane.

Once trimmed correctly, the plane flies superb. The problem is that a first time pilot would not recognize issues with the trim before crashing/damaging the plane.

My young son loves the plane (Commander II is his plane) and is doing a great job carving up the sky. ROG from dirt only takes 20-25' and then climbs out smartly even with the 7.2V battery. (Haven't tried a 8.4V pack in it yet.)


Clint

aircruiser
11-07-2006, 06:36 PM
It is most definitly a great plane.

xray328
11-08-2006, 07:52 PM
Yeah, I just wish I had that kind of money. :(

You do have that kind of money.

You bought the Commander 2, now you need to buy a new wing and tail feathers, then it'll be something else. Eventually the fuselage will split wide open after a nose in, then it'll be another RTF.

The Slow Stick is $32 and you can swap the electronics if you crash it beyond repair. Then you buy a $20 slope soaring kit and you're back in business.

After a couple of Commander 2 type planes go in the trash you could have had the SS and "real" parts (radio, receiver, servos, etc).

An no, its not a great plane. No 2 channel plane is. People that say that just haven't flown anything better yet.

cbatters
11-08-2006, 08:15 PM
You do have that kind of money.

You bought the Commander 2, now you need to buy a new wing and tail feathers, then it'll be something else. Eventually the fuselage will split wide open after a nose in, then it'll be another RTF.

The Slow Stick is $32 and you can swap the electronics if you crash it beyond repair. Then you buy a $20 slope soaring kit and you're back in business.

After a couple of Commander 2 type planes go in the trash you could have had the SS and "real" parts (radio, receiver, servos, etc).

An no, its not a great plane. No 2 channel plane is. People that say that just haven't flown anything better yet.

Have you ever flown a Commander II??

(And if you look at his sig you may notice that he already has a "better plane" but still enjoys flying the Commander. I have a bunch of different planes and still think the Commander is fun to fly. I would also guess that The Commander would be flying fine in conditions that that would ground a slow stick based on wing loading.)


Clint

xray328
11-08-2006, 08:25 PM
Yep, I've flown all the Hobbyzone RTF planes. Thats why I can say that. I've been there, and wasted hundreds of dollars on them.

And IMHO they are all junk.

Any plane that you can't swap electronics on is a waste of money.

Its like buying a car that you can't open the hood on. I mean sure it will run for awhile, but eventually, stuff will break or fail, then what...you buy a new car?

That being said, if you want to buy it for your 7 y/o, then I can understand that. But if you plan on staying in the hobby, there are much better choices.

cbatters
11-08-2006, 08:41 PM
Yep, I've flown all the Hobbyzone RTF planes. Thats why I can say that. I've been there, and wasted hundreds of dollars on them.

And IMHO they are all junk.

Any plane that you can't swap electronics on is a waste of money.

Its like buying a car that you can't open the hood on. I mean sure it will run for awhile, but eventually, stuff will break or fail, then what...you buy a new car?

That being said, if you want to buy it for your 7 y/o, then I can understand that. But if you plan on staying in the hobby, there are much better choices.

Please advise where you had an opportunity to fly ALL of the HobbyZone planes and determine that they were ALL junk. (I would enjoy seeing a list of the HobbyZone planes that you have actually owned / flown. What did you think of the SuperCub and the Striker F-27C?)

How about to each his own. Just because I like yellow and you prefer red doesn't make red junk.

Low cost RTF provides a low risk way to get into the hobby. I have much more sophisticted planes / radios but still enjoy flying the RTFs. (Having multiple RTFs also provides an opportunity to have more people flying at the same time. On several occasions I have had adults / kids come up at a park and I have let them fly one of my RTFs.)

And I have been very impressed with the reliability of the electronics and the availability/low cost of spare parts that get broken (wings, tails, control horns, wheels, fuse, cowlings, canopy.) Your objection to the lack of a replaceable radio is mute if the radio never fails.

To each his own.


Peace.

Clint

xray328
11-08-2006, 09:34 PM
Hmmm...lets see.

I've flown the Original Firebird, Firebird 2, Commander, Commander 2, Challenger, and Scout. So lets see, thats almost all of them except for the new Freedom. Hence the hundreds of dollars I've thrown away. And now that I look at it, I haven't tried the SuperCub either. These came out after I realized how much money I was wasting.

The F-27 is a Parkzone plane, not Hobbyzone. Yes its the same company, but the Parkzone stuff is better quality. My comments are in regards to the Hobbyzone stuff only.

Again, all I'm saying is that any plane that you can't swap parts on is wasted money.

But like you said, to each his own. If you enjoy throwing your money away, I guess you're entitled.

And my point about a replaceable radio isn't mute. Once you crash one of those beyond repair, what are you going to do with the radio? I put mine on Ebay and couldn't sell it for $5.

aircruiser
11-08-2006, 09:57 PM
I can accept you sharing your own opinions, but coming into a Hobby Zone based thread saying that all hobby zone airplanes are crap is like going to a used car dealership and bragging that you just bought a new car and saying that people who buy used cars are low class bums. I was sharing my crash story, not inviting a flame war to happen. Hobby Zone is a great company. If you crash the cub or commander you can take the electronics out and put it in a new plane. I also have the hobby zone mini mauler, yes it only takes hobby zone parts and upgrades, but it is still a great truck.

xray328
11-08-2006, 10:47 PM
I'm not trying to flame anyone or anything.

You made comment that you couldn't afford a Slow Stick. I was trying to make you understand that after buyng a couple "toy" RTF planes, you could in fact afford the Slow Stick and be able to transfer all of its parts onto another SS when you crash it for $20, unlike the Commander.

Since when can you take the parts out of a Commander and put them into another plane? Which parts are you referring to, the servos, the receiver, the ESC?

And when you say that the Hobbyzone line is comprised of "great" products, what are you comparing them to?

aircruiser
11-08-2006, 11:08 PM
All I meant is that you can put the electronics in a new commander 2 fusalage and by great I mean for anyone wanting a nice inexpensive strong R/C. I know I could afford a slow stick if I saved, but I like the scale look.

xray328
11-08-2006, 11:19 PM
Point taken.

Enjoy your Commander.

aircruiser
11-08-2006, 11:42 PM
Thank you and I like to hear comments and recomendations, but going as far as calling something a piece of crap because you had bad experiences is just a little bit harsh.

cbatters
11-09-2006, 12:44 AM
Hmmm...lets see.

I've flown the Original Firebird, Firebird 2, Commander, Commander 2, Challenger, and Scout. So lets see, thats almost all of them except for the new Freedom. Hence the hundreds of dollars I've thrown away. And now that I look at it, I haven't tried the SuperCub either. These came out after I realized how much money I was wasting.

The F-27 is a Parkzone plane, not Hobbyzone. Yes its the same company, but the Parkzone stuff is better quality. My comments are in regards to the Hobbyzone stuff only.

Again, all I'm saying is that any plane that you can't swap parts on is wasted money.

But like you said, to each his own. If you enjoy throwing your money away, I guess you're entitled.

And my point about a replaceable radio isn't mute. Once you crash one of those beyond repair, what are you going to do with the radio? I put mine on Ebay and couldn't sell it for $5.

I politely disagree. And the kids at the park that I let fly my RTFs would also disagree. they love/enjoy flying RTFs.

I believe you may be suffering from "my stuff is better than your stuff" and "I can't accept the fact that others people are different" syndromes.

And now you fly the killer of all killer airplanes, the Slo Stick....


Clint

PS: I would be interested in knowing what you thought was wrong with the Challenger. Does it fly too fast?

xray328
11-09-2006, 12:46 AM
Point taken.

Enjoy your Commander.

See, this was my way of ending the conversation.


Look -

If you believe that Hobbyzone is a quality product, then keep giving them your money.

But personally, I work too hard for my money to spend it on throw away planes.

Do what you want.

xray328
11-09-2006, 12:52 AM
I fly the Slow Stick at an indoor golf dome, in the winter time, when theres no where else to fly. To me, its one step above not getting to fly at all.

I was suggesting it to you as an alternative to the Commander 2.

In regards to the challenger...

Actually I've moved over glo planes that fly better and faster than anything you'e ever had your hands on.

aircruiser
11-09-2006, 12:59 AM
Like I said, I am against fighting.

We all have our own opinions and I respect that.

xray328
11-09-2006, 01:17 AM
I enjoy the debate. But only when we can act like adults.

cbatters
11-09-2006, 01:27 AM
I enjoy the debate. But only when we can act like adults.

You insult me with your desparaging comment about throwing money away and then are surprised by an insult inkind. Perhaps you should start your own thread on "Slo Sticks Rule - RTF's Suck" and I promise I won't post in your thread.

Better yet - lets end this by adding each other to our respective ignore lists.

QED

Clint

xray328
11-10-2006, 03:46 AM
How is saying that you're throwing your money away an insult? When you crash your Commander beyond repair, where is it gonna end up? In the trash, hence the comment.

And I don't think the Slow Stick is a great plane, its just a better choice than the Commander, which doesn't have an elevator function, in addition to the non-replacable gear that I've already mentioned.

Besides, SDB1 suggested the Slow Stick, not me.

Believe me when I tell you to ditch the Commander 2 and get a Slow Stick! It is Super Easy to fly! I don't know how people fly a plane with no elevator and a weak motor like the Commander comes with. I started with a Commander 2 and after three or four trips back to the hobby store I decided the plane was the problem! Guess what? No more crashes and I have a new love for R/C Airplanes.

You said you couldn't afford it, and then I said that with the money you're spending on Hobbyzone planes, you could.


Additionally, not all RTF planes are junk. It just has to be at least 3 channels and allow you replace the electronics. This is a much better RTF than the Commander...

http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawk3chrtf.html

aircruiser
11-10-2006, 04:23 AM
SDB1 recommended it to me, not cbatters.

Seems to me that me and cbatters are hobby zone fans, and xray is a slow stick fan.

That is all.

xray328
11-10-2006, 05:50 AM
SDB1 recommended it to me, not cbatters.

Seems to me that me and cbatters are hobby zone fans, and xray is a slow stick fan.

That is all.

Did you read my last message???



Besides, SDB1 suggested the Slow Stick, not me.



And again, I'm not a slow stick fan. I suggested it as an alternative to the Commander.

I fly the Slow Stick at an indoor golf dome, in the winter time, when theres no where else to fly. To me, its one step above not getting to fly at all.

I was suggesting it to you as an alternative to the Commander 2.



And in case you missed it...




Additionally, not all RTF planes are junk. It just has to be at least 3 channels and allow you replace the electronics. This is a much better RTF than the Commander...

http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawk3chrtf.html

I think where beating a dead horse here.

cbatters
11-10-2006, 01:42 PM
Great morning flying with my son. He went through two battery packs with his Commander. Lots of flights/ no crashes. Was blowing 6-7 MPH so he had to turn a little steeper but he was flying great.

We got an XPORT bomb drop module and he was having a blast dropping the little parachute guy from the sky.

Headed back to the field now.

Happy flying.



Clint

aircruiser
11-10-2006, 09:07 PM
I have the bomb drop and it is alot of fun!

Haven't tried it on the super cub yet, but definitly will try to next time!

cbatters
11-10-2006, 10:35 PM
I have the bomb drop and it is alot of fun!

Haven't tried it on the super cub yet, but definitly will try to next time!

Let me know if it works.. several reports of folks having problems getting it to work on the supercub.


Clint

aircruiser
11-12-2006, 08:12 PM
Thank you xray for the negative reputation points...:rolleyes:

cbatters
11-13-2006, 01:56 PM
I suggest you reciprocate with neg feedback and then add him to your ignore list.

Had a great weekend flying with my son at the soccer field. We set up a designated runway with a downwind approach pattern. He was sticking landings using the Commander II with amazing precision. Also doing touch/go landings.

All good.


Clint

aircruiser
11-13-2006, 09:07 PM
It has been very windy around here...I have just started getting use to R/C trucks...I gave xray the negative and ignored.

cbatters
11-13-2006, 09:50 PM
I'm thinking about buying one of these for too-windy to fly conditions...

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/s/snhc7159.jpg

or one of these..

http://images.etoys.com/g/toys/hires/713308B.jpg