First foamy

[40bigstik]

Hello I am an expierienced big plane flyer (aka mid size glow .40-.60 aerobatic) and am looking to buy my first foamy. I like the looks of the eflite ultimate 3d profile and the great planes flatout extra, cap, or reflection. I would want to know if you guys think these are any good also wondering what equitment to buy. I'm thinking I would probably buy a brushless motor setup of some sort and hs55's? tell me what you would seggest I get. I like the looks of the eflite but don't know anything about electric, or foam. Thank you all very much for your advice.

[Foamiesrfun]

Hello I am an expierienced big plane flyer (aka mid size glow .40-.60 aerobatic) and am looking to buy my first foamy. I like the looks of the eflite ultimate 3d profile and the great planes flatout extra, cap, or reflection. I would want to know if you guys think these are any good also wondering what equitment to buy. I'm thinking I would probably buy a brushless motor setup of some sort and hs55's? tell me what you would seggest I get. I like the looks of the eflite but don't know anything about electric, or foam. Thank you all very much for your advice.

Welcome to the site,I myself use Hitec HS-55 servos they seem to work good on alot of driffrent planes and I run Himax motors with gearbox 6 to 6 to 1 gear ratio and well I like flat planes and all.I fly www.fancyfoam.com (http://www.fancyfoam.com) planes.Whatever you like in looks I guess them are all good planes.you not flown any eletric ever before? okay this is my info you should read some about Lipo batterys and all learn some first before you get into it.I use Thunder power Packs myself.

[40bigstik]

No I have never flown a foamie. I am thinking of getting a 10amp esc with a GP RimFire brushless esc. I am up to date on Lipo's and am looking at getting a triton charger which I have heard can charge anything from a nicad to a cow. Also do you know if there is any difference at all in the performance or for that matter any difference at all except for two wings in a biplane. I would expect that I should be able to get everything I need for under 225$ (not including the triton) if I do my deels right.

__________________________________________________ _________
my local flying club (you can see a picture of me with my favorite plane at the bottom (http://www.flytrca.rcsites.net/

[Azarr]

My personal preference is for the Bipes, because of the lower wing loadings.

While the Triton is a great charger, my preference is for a dedicated lipo charger so that eliminates one more decision from the charging process. The more automatic the charger the better. If you are disciplined enough to always make sure you're in the right mode, get the Triton. However, take a look at the ThunderPower or HECO. Also, the AstroFlight 109 is outstanding although overkill for what you're wanting to do.

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com (http://www.ecubedrc.com)

[Foamiesrfun]

No I have never flown a foamie. I am thinking of getting a 10amp esc with a GP RimFire brushless esc. I am up to date on Lipo's and am looking at getting a triton charger which I have heard can charge anything from a nicad to a cow. Also do you know if there is any difference at all in the performance or for that matter any difference at all except for two wings in a biplane. I would expect that I should be able to get everything I need for under 225$ (not including the triton) if I do my deels right.

__________________________________________________ _________
my local flying club (you can see a picture of me with my favorite plane at the bottom (http://www.flytrca.rcsites.net/

I'm not sure about that motor but I use a 25 amp ESC.The Triton is a great charger my father has 2,yes they chrage anything you have.
Took a long at your clubs pictures WOW yall like big planes some nice looking ones too.

[GallopingGhost]

As a fellow Newbie to Fun Foamies I can share my recent perceptions. I bought a Flatout Cap 580 not knowing better. Its flimsey and takes 3 times as long to build as the box says. They tried to create a engineering marvel with all the special molded plastic parts. It has a weird up thrust that seems 100% wrong. I recently bought the E-Flite Tribute and Utimate. They have not been built or flown but just looking over the kit and instructions make the Flatout look to be a poor second to them. If you are going to land in grass leave the gear off unless you want to do carrier type landings. The Cap goes from flying to stopped in about 3 inches! The gear hits the grass and tries to snatch the support out of the wing.

[stuff]

Buy a shockey from Icarus BUT before you buld it get a sheet of of posterboard and trace the parts on it.Also order some 3ml depron foam to start building your next one.AFTER YOU FLY THE FIRST ONE INTO THE DIRT keep the carbon fibre and use it on your next one.Repeat as often as required to satisfy your fun factor.Your next purchase should be a HOTGLUE GUN and GLUE sticks plus a 150 watt inverter to power it .THIS SNOT works on Depron better than epoxy or foam c/a and it is cheaper.You will be able to repair on the go. Fly these planes like a PIZZA BOX .If there is no air over the controls they fall so work your throttle and when you panic and pull back on the throttle they will fall down.Most fly best verticle (up and down) GOOD LUCK Stuff

[KenS]

As my first foamy coming from a glow backround. I went with the Hacker Zoom Zoom 4D with a Hacker 20/22L motor and cc 25esc, with 3s1320PL battery.

The kit was easy to build and really has no bad habbits. It can do anything you ask it to do, plus it's tough EPP so when I started practice to practice 3D, I didn't have to worry because it can take some serious abuse.

Now they have the Super Zoom 4D which is suppose to be even better at a slightly higher weight.

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
The Vultures at my local field seem to think I'm the foamy expert:eek: .
Um "Vultures" is the club name... I'm on my third Eflite Ultimate (I'm very rough on my toys). I power mine with a Mini A/C 1215-16, kit supplied gear box, APC 12-6 slow fly prop, and Kokam 1500 3s batteries, although I'm prolly changing to Thunder Power 1320s.
The Himax or Eflite 4200 motor works well too but the smaller Eflite 370 or Himax 20-15 motors aren't over powering the model enough:rolleyes:
It flies well and does 3d better and for landings on rough ground I just "elevator" it on down.
I think the Ultimate with Himax or Eflite 4200kv motor would be your best bet. Also the motor will fly the nifty Mountain models kits and the Eflite Mini Funtana or Edge 540 when you decide to move up, if you decide to move up. Personaly I don't much care for the Great Planes motors or ESCs and the Flat outs are getting very mixed reviews. Of course this is just one pilots opinion so take it for what it's worth...
RobII

[kolarshooter]

Get an EPP plane. The Zoom Zoom will suffice...good choice. I have a Blade 3D and it is a blast. The CF landing gear will last for about a year's worth of aggressive (abusive) flying. I eventually cut it off after I learned to 3D well enough to simply hover in front of my face and reach out and take the plane by the fuse.

If you get a Blade, there are a few mods you will REALLY want to do, so PM me or maybe respond to this thread. If you've never dealt with EPP before, you're in for a very pleasant surprise. The stuff is amazingly resiliant and for glue, the best stuff is ShooGoo! The glue itself is pliable, so when you stuff your bird into the grass, the whole airframe just bends and bounces back (usually.) Caution; Only use this stuff on EPP since it will melt Depron foam.

If you get into foamies, Get a hot glue gun. I use that stuff to mount servos and motor mounts onto any type of foam airframe.

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
I've noticed with the epp models that although they last a long time you often wish they wouldn't.
epp is very resilient, sure, but because of that it doesn't have much structural integrity. It gets saggy fast, but still mostly works. Saggy = sloppy. So you just kind of mush around the manuvers instead of getting the crisp response. On top of that epp get ratty looking fairly quick and you can't clean it up like you can balsa or eps or depron foam.
I do a lot of slope flying as well as the electric stuff, and we do a lot of full contact combat. For our combat models we use epp, but to get the planes stiff enough to fly right we need to use a lot of carbon spars and strapping tape and then cover them over with money-cote. For a sloper that's fine, a little extra weight is a good thing, but for a parkie 3d model weight is a killerand without all the strapping tape and carbon they just flop around after a few weeks flying. Oh yeah, strapping tape is *not* UV resistant so you have to cover it with something or it dries out and doesn't stick anymore.

The upshot is; if you want to do 3d you want a crisp model to get crisp manuvers and with the G forces in the snappy turns epp goes floppy fast.
RobII

[KenS]

Have you seen the thickness of the EPP used in the Zoom and Super Zoom?
They won't go floppy especialy if you use carbon spars. Mine is taking a beating and I mean that very literaly and it's still stiff as ever. After the first 3 crashes and fixes and many glide tests the last 2 days, it's now balanced and still rigid as heck.
They are not made of that hollow thin EPP, they are thick solid pieces.
But if your set on something other than EPP and don't want to spend a ton of money, I would look at 3dhobbyshop.com they have some nice inexpensive planes in 25", 32",40" sizes one is an extra, the other is a su.

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
I haven't seen the Zoom or Super Zoom, but I've seen and flown plenty of Zagis, Too Cools, Motherships, and that Su55 by Elabee.

It's the nature of epp to be soft and floppy. Ridged isn't what epp does.
I'm glad your model is "as stiff as ever" but I really doubt the stiffness holds a candle to a woody or even a well designed eps foamy.
In flight the wing twists even if you don't see it twisting, the fuse twists and the tail goes out of alignment, even if you don't see it it's enough that it throws off the control a bit. Granted when the model is newish these twists are fairly minor, but they are there and they do affect the flight of the model and with each flex it gets a little worse. Three months from now you'll have a flop monster, but it'll still look like it's o.k., sort of.

To keep the model from flexing you add carbon spars and then add strapping tape to stiffen the foan between the spars, then you need to protect the strapping tape from U.V. so you add moneycote or Uline tape, now you've added weight so you need more motor and battery, yet more weigfht so you need bigger wings, more tape, carbon, and covering. Now you need more motor... it becomes a never ending cycle and you never achieve the stiffness you'd get by using a different medium.
Epp is great for combat models but it just isn't worth it for anything else at least if you want presice control of the model.
RobII

[kolarshooter]

It's the nature of epp to be soft and floppy. Ridged isn't what epp does.
I'm glad your model is "as stiff as ever" but I really doubt the stiffness holds a candle to a woody or even a well designed eps foamy.
This is why it doesn't break.


Three months from now you'll have a flop monster, but it'll still look like it's o.k., sort of.
My Blade 3D is over two years old now. It is no more (or less) floppy that it was when it was new.

To keep the model from flexing you add carbon spars and then add strapping tape to stiffen the foan between the spars, then you need to protect the strapping tape from U.V. so you add moneycote or Uline tape, now you've added weight so you need more motor and battery, yet more weigfht so you need bigger wings, more tape, carbon, and covering. Now you need more motor... it becomes a never ending cycle and you never achieve the stiffness you'd get by using a different medium.
Ridiculous. I used some carbon strips which I cannibalized from one of my MANY dead Shock Flyers...wing LE and TE. The only tape on my plane is aileron hinging.[/quote]

Epp is great for combat models
We agree on something.

but it just isn't worth it for anything else at least if you want presice control of the model.
RobII
Yes, EPP flexes. That is what you want it to do. If this fellow wanted an FAI indoor pattern plane, I'd be with you on this. However, if he wants a plane to learn to hover and torque roll with, then he'd be better off with a very forgiving plane. I enjoy both pattern and 3D flying with all of my planes...when flying a foamy for 3D, the Blade if usually my choice. Especially when trying new stuff (rolling circles 3" from the floor, etc.)

Besides, You complain that EPP will only last a few months. If this is his first foamy, How long do you think a Shock Flyer will last him if he uses it to learn 3D??? I'd bet that he doesn't get an hour of flight time on it before it's toast...in fact, I'd bet he'd get half that much (unless he just flys it around in circles...even then until he learns harrier landings, he'll probably beat the plane up pretty badly just learning how to land the thing!)

Good luck either way 40bigstick! You can PM me if you have any specific questions.

[Elfwreck]

My Blade 3D is over two years old now. It is no more (or less) floppy that it was when it was new.

Hey now,
If you fly it regularly, it's gotten floppier than it was when it was new. Maybe you don't notice it, but it has. It's the nature of epp.

Ridiculous. I used some carbon strips which I cannibalized from one of my MANY dead Shock Flyers...wing LE and TE. The only tape on my plane is aileron hinging.[/quote]

With only a coupla carbon strips it can't be a stiff model. Why did you need to add carbon if it wasn't floppy?

Yes, EPP flexes. That is what you want it to do. If this fellow wanted an FAI indoor pattern plane, I'd be with you on this. However, if he wants a plane to learn to hover and torque roll with, then he'd be better off with a very forgiving plane. I enjoy both pattern and 3D flying with all of my planes...when flying a foamy for 3D, the Blade if usually my choice. Especially when trying new stuff (rolling circles 3" from the floor, etc.)

Forgiving, sure, but with the flex and twist inherant with an epp 3d model it'll teach some bad habit that'll have to be unlearned when he moves to something that flies right.
Myself, I'd rather cut a new flat foam model each week and dump it as it starts to flex. At a couple of bux per airframe and twenty minutes to cut and glue it together it's plenty cheap and I don't have to put up with an imprecise airframe.

Besides, You complain that EPP will only last a few months.

No, I complain that it'll only fly decently for a few weeks to a coupla months but still look like it'll fly o.k. for a coupla years. And that will only hold him back.

If this is his first foamy, How long do you think a Shock Flyer will last him if he uses it to learn 3D??? I'd bet that he doesn't get an hour of flight time on it before it's toast...in fact, I'd bet he'd get half that much (unless he just flys it around in circles...even then until he learns harrier landings, he'll probably beat the plane up pretty badly just learning how to land the thing!)

I wouldn't recomend a Shocky either. Way too much flex and as you noted it won't hold up through even the first weekend. Not a good choice at all.
If you were going to go with foam I'd suggest getting some fan fold and down load some freebie plans, at least till you know the moments, then just design your own. Much cheaper, stronger, and little pain to replace weekly or monthly.

In the long run wood would be the way to go, for short term training fan fold works fine, but epp you'll try and keep far beyond it's viability as with your two year old Blade.

I had a Too Cool from NSP. It looked nifty, and flew well, for the first few weeks. It got kinda saggy and I got rid of it. That damn plane is on it's sixth owner now. It looks good, and if you don't know how it should fly it flies o.k., but I wouldn't train on it and the guys that have are running into all kinds of trouble releaning 3d flight when they upgrade to a nice stiff airframe.
RobII

[qban_flyer]

Hello I am an expierienced big plane flyer (aka mid size glow .40-.60 aerobatic) and am looking to buy my first foamy. I like the looks of the eflite ultimate 3d profile and the great planes flatout extra, cap, or reflection. I would want to know if you guys think these are any good also wondering what equitment to buy. I'm thinking I would probably buy a brushless motor setup of some sort and hs55's? tell me what you would seggest I get. I like the looks of the eflite but don't know anything about electric, or foam. Thank you all very much for your advice.

My two cents worth.

Whatever you do, stay away from GP's Flat Outs. They are rather flimsy and will not last long. I've seen too many of them fall apart in a short time.

Their wings do flutter themselves to death, and I mean the entire wing, not just the ailerons.

The Rimfire motor is nice and I would suggets you use their SS-12 B/L ESC if you choose to go with the Rimfire. It sells for $34.99 and works like a dream. I have four of them.

Hobby Lobby (http://www.hobby-lobby.com) is closing out the Esskay 400XT B/L outrunner motors @ $29.90 a pop, I have bought four of them and find them extremely nice. and while on the H/L subject, they also have their own version of a Yak-55 foamy profile on sale through tomorrow for $19.90. It's made of 6mm Depron, not 4 like most of them out there. It is a very nice 3D flying combo with the Esskay and the GP SS-12 ESC. Servos I use on mine are HS-55 and for RX I use an Electron 6. Battery packs used are good old "US Made" Thunder Power packs.

Sale on both the Esskay 400XT and the Yak-55 at Hobby Lobby end tomorrow at midnight.

[kolarshooter]

My Blade 3D is over two years old now. It is no more (or less) floppy that it was when it was new.

Hey now,
If you fly it regularly, it's gotten floppier than it was when it was new. Maybe you don't notice it, but it has. It's the nature of epp.

Ridiculous. I used some carbon strips which I cannibalized from one of my MANY dead Shock Flyers...wing LE and TE. The only tape on my plane is aileron hinging.
With only a coupla carbon strips it can't be a stiff model. Why did you need to add carbon if it wasn't floppy?

Yes, EPP flexes. That is what you want it to do. If this fellow wanted an FAI indoor pattern plane, I'd be with you on this. However, if he wants a plane to learn to hover and torque roll with, then he'd be better off with a very forgiving plane. I enjoy both pattern and 3D flying with all of my planes...when flying a foamy for 3D, the Blade if usually my choice. Especially when trying new stuff (rolling circles 3" from the floor, etc.)

Forgiving, sure, but with the flex and twist inherant with an epp 3d model it'll teach some bad habit that'll have to be unlearned when he moves to something that flies right.
Myself, I'd rather cut a new flat foam model each week and dump it as it starts to flex. At a couple of bux per airframe and twenty minutes to cut and glue it together it's plenty cheap and I don't have to put up with an imprecise airframe.

Besides, You complain that EPP will only last a few months.

No, I complain that it'll only fly decently for a few weeks to a coupla months but still look like it'll fly o.k. for a coupla years. And that will only hold him back.

If this is his first foamy, How long do you think a Shock Flyer will last him if he uses it to learn 3D??? I'd bet that he doesn't get an hour of flight time on it before it's toast...in fact, I'd bet he'd get half that much (unless he just flys it around in circles...even then until he learns harrier landings, he'll probably beat the plane up pretty badly just learning how to land the thing!)

I wouldn't recomend a Shocky either. Way too much flex and as you noted it won't hold up through even the first weekend. Not a good choice at all.
If you were going to go with foam I'd suggest getting some fan fold and down load some freebie plans, at least till you know the moments, then just design your own. Much cheaper, stronger, and little pain to replace weekly or monthly.

In the long run wood would be the way to go, for short term training fan fold works fine, but epp you'll try and keep far beyond it's viability as with your two year old Blade.

I had a Too Cool from NSP. It looked nifty, and flew well, for the first few weeks. It got kinda saggy and I got rid of it. That damn plane is on it's sixth owner now. It looks good, and if you don't know how it should fly it flies o.k., but I wouldn't train on it and the guys that have are running into all kinds of trouble releaning 3d flight when they upgrade to a nice stiff airframe.
RobII[/quote]

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
Interesting response. I always enjoy the high caliber of discussion on these forums. The witty repartee, the well thought out arguement for or against anything electric, and the comitment to helping each other out.
Not only that, but the willingness to ascede to another's better arguement on what ever topic is brought to bear.
Nice to see the high standard being upheld in such a novel way.
RobII

[kolarshooter]

Hey now,
Interesting response. I always enjoy the high caliber of discussion on these forums. The witty repartee, the well thought out arguement for or against anything electric, and the comitment to helping each other out.
Not only that, but the willingness to ascede to another's better arguement on what ever topic is brought to bear.
Nice to see the high standard being upheld in such a novel way.
RobII
Hey there Yoda,

I was going to use an avitar of a stick figure pounding his head against a wall. However, I came across this one first and it cracked me up.

Since you responded with such caustic sarcasm, I'll go ahead and post again, further wasting my time arguing with you, Yoda, omnicient of all things involving electric flight.

I am curious as to how you can tell me my airplane has become more and more flexible when, in fact, you have never seen my plane? You did not see my plane when I built it, and you, sir, have not seen it recently to compare. You continue to argue with my experiences in spite of your lack of knowledge about my plane and how I built it.

Notice that in response to your explanations of your different points I never disagreed with your experiences, rather I explained my experiences to the reader. Some of these experiences are different than yours, but they are no less my experiences, accurately related to the reader of this thread.

You asked "Why did you need to add carbon if it wasn't floppy?" Well, most planes need a spar, Yoda. Like a Shocky, I have an LE and TE spar. Weighs nothing and makes the wing adequately stiff.

For some reason, you think a Shock Flyer and planes of its ilk have "way too much flex." You further state that this flex will teach bad habits which will need to be un-learned. The only times I've heard this observation is when people try to fly them like sport planes. These were not designed for sport flying, they were initially designed for indoor "Artistic Aerobatics" which is quite the rage in Europe. As to your flexibility observation...you are from the Bay Area. You might know Zak West. Given that you are Yoda, omnicient of all things involving electric flight, perhaps you could explain this flexibility problem to Zak (I know, I know, I'm sure he's one of your chosen pupils.) This is important so he won't keep learning such bad habits from these flexible foam planes which he always seems to be flying. I'll be seeing him tomorrow and through the weekend in Vegas (SW Regional IMAC Champoinships) so I'll be sure to ask him about it and explain that you, Yoda - omnicient of all things involving electric flight, think that he'll learn some bad habits from these flexible devils.

Wayne Geffon (probably another of your students) seems to do quite well flying a Shock Flyer...in spite of all of the bad habits he's picking up from them.

You wrote "in the long run, wood would be the way to go..." You might consider re-reading the name of this thread.

Below are a few (flexy) shockie movies.

Zak West w/ Super Star Shockie (http://www.10374.com/3dbatix/videos/sfsszak.wmv)

Wayne Geffon w/ SS Shockie (http://www.flybuder.com/aeroflyvids/waynegeffonshocky.wmv)

Great Shocky in basement video (http://rcgroups.com/gallery/data/506/1636Shocking.WMV)

Boris Guic flying a Blade 3D in an auto repair garage in the Cz Republic. One of the more amazing indoor flying videos I've seen. Requires DivX. (http://www.rcmania.cz/2004/Movies/boris_divx.avi)

Best regards to all.

(Turns and bows to Yoda.)

[kolarshooter]

PS: The fancy Foam planes recommended earlier are nice foamies. No doubt.

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
Boy howdy! you're sure giving me a lot of power here dude.
You flamed me and I responded by noting how much I enjoy most of the posts in this forum.
I don't have to know your particular model. I know the material and even that design, knowing that much I can in fact know if your model has gone soft after two years of use. You think that makes me a smart ass? Not my problem. Your gonna tell you Big Name Pilot buddies on me? Ooooh, I'm scared. So what if somebody who flys well wants to fly foamies? If they're willing to put up with the short comings of a particular design that's up to them, an expert pilot should be able to deal with short comings like airframe flex. It's not at all the same as a newb learning bad flying habits.

If a person wants to do this (or any) kind of flying shouldn't they learn on the best possible equipment? For that, if the better design is cheaper than the lesser model wouldn't that be two points in it's favor? I'd surely think so.
Picking up some Fan Fold and down loading plans sets from one of the many free sites a person could easily get fourty models for the prioce of one of those epp kits. With that they won't be putting up with beat airframes, the model gets dinged up or starts to flex, trash it and build a new one.
RobII

[qban_flyer]

Hey now,
Interesting response. I always enjoy the high caliber of discussion on these forums. The witty repartee, the well thought out arguement for or against anything electric, and the comitment to helping each other out.
Not only that, but the willingness to ascede to another's better arguement on what ever topic is brought to bear.
Nice to see the high standard being upheld in such a novel way.
RobII

Isn't nice to be able to share our own collective knowledge for the good of the entire e-community?

I'm glad Watt Flyer rescued me in the nick of time as I had given up on discussion groups, newsgroups, and all of the "r/c this and r/c that" online.

It's refreshing to see how all of us benefit from such a well run site as this one, just as I am truly impressed with the level of knowledge being shared here. And all of that for FREE!

Thanks Watt Flyer, thanks everybody.

[jonnyjetprop]

I highly recommend this plane:

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/monte.html

I have seen numerous one fly and have never seen a bad one in the bunch. Some guys are using outrunners and others have stuck with the recommended Himax geared motor.

John

[qban_flyer]

These were not designed for sport flying, they were initially designed for indoor "Artistic Aerobatics" which is quite the rage in Europe.

I agree with the assessment that these models are not designed for sport flight. Fly them that way and not only will they flex, but will also flutter.

In my case I found out the hard way, when my first G/P CAP-580 "Flat Out" fluttered its wings to death (the entire wing, not just the ailerons). The second one sports four wing struts to reduce a flutter that I may never experience since I have learned to fly it like it was intended to by its designers, slow and gracefully in a more or less windless environment.

[qban_flyer]

I highly recommend this plane:

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/monte.html

I have seen numerous one fly and have never seen a bad one in the bunch. Some guys are using outrunners and others have stuck with the recommended Himax geared motor.

John

Real nice plane. I must get me one of those "Monte" 3D flyers. Thanks for the link.

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
The idea of a near windless environment is one of those things we don't much think about 'round here. Not too many indoor sites, closest one is fourty minutes away and only open tuesday nights and then only for two hours, with over fourty folks at last count it's hard to get airtime there.
So most of us fly our flat plate foamies out doors.
About the only ones that don't flex and twist all over the place are the E-flite Ultimate and many of the free plan foamies.
A Shocky even in a five mph breeze is really funny to watch, twisting and turning like they do. Torque rolls with the tail a quarter turn behind the rest of the model and all that.
I figured since this guy didn't say he was going to fly indoors he was going to be dealing with real world environments where you have to deal with wind and wind induced crashes, wear, and all the associated problems. Indoors...wow... how strange...
Of course if they ever fix hanger 1, I'll be there ready to fly, but untill then it's the unpredictable varigies of out door conditions...
RobII

[qban_flyer]

Hey now,
The idea of a near windless environment is one of those things we don't much think about 'round here. Not too many indoor sites, closest one is fourty minutes away and only open tuesday nights and then only for two hours, with over fourty folks at last count it's hard to get airtime there.
So most of us fly our flat plate foamies out doors.
About the only ones that don't flex and twist all over the place are the E-flite Ultimate and many of the free plan foamies.
A Shocky even in a five mph breeze is really funny to watch, twisting and turning like they do. Torque rolls with the tail a quarter turn behind the rest of the model and all that.
I figured since this guy didn't say he was going to fly indoors he was going to be dealing with real world environments where you have to deal with wind and wind induced crashes, wear, and all the associated problems. Indoors...wow... how strange...
Of course if they ever fix hanger 1, I'll be there ready to fly, but untill then it's the unpredictable varigies of out door conditions...
RobII

ULTRAFLY Models have built up foam fuselages (a la GWS PT-17) that one glues together. Those 3D models do not flex and twist in flight like "FLATSOS" do.

I loved you comments on a Shocky flying in a 5 MPH breeze, that was funny.

[rcfoamy]

Take a look at the Performance Model Aviation's EV Foamy, very stable and light and strong. The EV is CNC machined 6mm foam plane that uses a interlocking construction. The kit includes all the carbon and hardware to finish the plane, just add glue and the electronics. The plane uses the AXI 2212/26 motor and a Castle Creations 25 amo speed controller, and 4 HS 55 servos. The AUW with a 3 cell lipo is 15-16 oz. The plane will give you hours of fun and flying.

Pictures to follow..

Scott Anderson
TEAM PMA
www.rcfoamy.com (http://www.rcfoamy.com)

[qban_flyer]

Take a look at the Performance Model Aviation's EV Foamy, very stable and light and strong. The EV is CNC machined 6mm foam plane that uses a interlocking construction. The kit includes all the carbon and hardware to finish the plane, just add glue and the electronics. The plane uses the AXI 2212/26 motor and a Castle Creations 25 amo speed controller, and 4 HS 55 servos. The AUW with a 3 cell lipo is 15-16 oz. The plane will give you hours of fun and flying.

Pictures to follow..

Scott Anderson
TEAM PMA
www.rcfoamy.com (http://www.rcfoamy.com/)


I stopped at my favorite LHS this afternoon. They had just gotten in the new E-Flite Ultimate foamy 3D bipe.

A dream 3D plane if I ever saw one. Completely assembled (one piece foam) fuselage with its design printed on the foam in three colors and the servo pockets already molded in. A thin lite ply F/W and a stick motor mount for a GWS like type motor affair are already glued in place. It comes with a gearbox and propeller but no motor.

Wings are flat Depron with the three color scheme printed on them. Bottom one has a carbon fiber rod as a spar, though the top one does not. Cabane and struts are rather wide and sturdy, a rather nice overall model with wire landing gear and nice wheel pants and a light precut and painted fiberglass cowling. After inspecting the contents I would hazard to guess it shouldn't take more than ten hours to get it from box to field.

I guess that will be my next project as I am too busy now with three other unfinished ones here.

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
I've seen pix of the new Ultimate, to me it looks kinda funny with a full fuse and flat wings, but I'll bet it stiffens the tail a fair bit. Not sure about the prepainted bits either. I like to paint my own patterns on them and uh, often prepainted mean advertizing and I'm not going to advertize unless I'm compensated for it, but that's a personal problem...
Oh, glad you liked the Shocky description, I just call 'em as I see 'em...
RobII

[qban_flyer]

Hey now,
I've seen pix of the new Ultimate, to me it looks kinda funny with a full fuse and flat wings, but I'll bet it stiffens the tail a fair bit. Not sure about the prepainted bits either. I like to paint my own patterns on them and uh, often prepainted mean advertizing and I'm not going to advertize unless I'm compensated for it, but that's a personal problem...
Oh, glad you liked the Shocky description, I just call 'em as I see 'em...
RobII

You gotta see it in person, hold it in your hands to really appreciate its quality. YUP! that fuse is as if it had been given a dose of that blue pill, that thing won't twist or flex unless you do so with your own two hands. Also the parts are cut so nicely and every moving surface comes already pre-hinged. And that fiberglass cowl, what a thing of beauty for a model that sells for under $70 to have!

The paint scheme is rather nice. Very vivid colors and nicely applied (printed). The advertisement comes in the form of decals that one can choose to apply or not. I won't on mine. Since I will be paying for it, there will be no free advertising on it, period.

I will add a carbon fiber rod of the same diameter to the upper wing so as to make the whole affair doubly strong.

[timocharis]

Nothing flies like a Shockie (and nobody flies it like Zak, which was mentioned earlier, but even lesser mortals can have fun with one).

The Blade is a very durable, excellent option as a 3d trainer. Much of the kit is silly (as is the aileron servo mounting setup) but with a few tweaks it will last for years.

The cheaper EPP 3d planes from slofly.com are among my favorites, and probably a better choice than the Blade (though a bit more responsive, which can also mean a bit harder to fly).

I built a Flat Out and sold it a few days later. Draw your own conclusion. I will not be getting another.

Haven't built or flown anything from E-Flite, so no comment.


Dave North

[qban_flyer]

I built a Flat Out and sold it a few days later. Draw your own conclusion. I will not be getting another.

Haven't built or flown anything from E-Flite, so no comment.

Dave North

I bought one of the first CAP-580s in the D.C. area, and I was one of the first few to fly one. Mine fluttered its wings to death on the tenth flight, so I foolishly bought another one and added struts to the wing to try and eliminate this problem.

So far this one has not "fluttered" itself to death, and flies rather nice (within its limitations), but like you, this will be my last G/P "flatso". It's rather delicate in every aspect, it is as if it had been designed to be looked at, not flown.

[rcfoamy]

You should take a look at the Pefromance Model Aviation AKRO 3 D plane very strong and great 3D plane.. Or if something a little more stable look at the EV. goto www.rcfoamy.com (http://www.rcfoamy.com) under planes..

Scott

[qban_flyer]

You should take a look at the Pefromance Model Aviation AKRO 3 D plane very strong and great 3D plane.. Or if something a little more stable look at the EV. goto www.rcfoamy.com (http://www.rcfoamy.com) under planes..

Scott

That Akro 3D should be the ticket for me. What's the foam thickness?

[rcfoamy]

Right now the current model is 6mm Depron and we are doing a series of prototypes of the EV and AKRO in 3mm. The prototypes CAD drawings are being done now and looking to cut them in the near future. The planes all use a interlocking system and carbon to make very strong. I have a sale price of $ 45.00 for the kit right now. Please email me at scott@rcfoamy.com if interested.

Thank You,

[qban_flyer]

Right now the current model is 6mm Depron and we are doing a series of prototypes of the EV and AKRO in 3mm. The prototypes CAD drawings are being done now and looking to cut them in the near future. The planes all use a interlocking system and carbon to make very strong. I have a sale price of $ 45.00 for the kit right now. Please email me at scott@rcfoamy.com if interested.

Thank You,

I surely hope you'll keep the 6mm version available. Some of us feel "safer" flying thicker walled profile models.

I refuse to fly anything under 4mm, matter of fact I'm getting to the point that unless its foam thickness is 6mm, I won't bother with it. Thicker may not look as cool, but it is more durable and it will flex less.

[rcfoamy]

Yes the 6mm version is nice and handles the wind well, Josh Glavin flew my plane at SEFF in a 25 mph wind doing rolling circles at 10 feet of the ground and it was the only foamy that was flying.. The 3mm version is for FAI pilot Dan Landis ( Team Futaba & Team Castle Creations) for the diffrent indoor events this winter.

[qban_flyer]

Yes the 6mm version is nice and handles the wind well, Josh Glavin flew my plane at SEFF in a 25 mph wind doing rolling circles at 10 feet of the ground and it was the only foamy that was flying.. The 3mm version is for FAI pilot Dan Landis ( Team Futaba & Team Castle Creations) for the diffrent indoor events this winter.

Thanks for the clarification. I like to fly my 3D profile models outdoors, in real life 3mm thick foam is very limiting in that respect. The very reason I like 6mm thickness better.

[pcm1024]

Foamies are pretty much reserved for indoors or no wind days regardless of the foam thickness. That is pretty much a given. We probably all have other planes to fly outside those conditions. That being said, If they are flown as designed as low speed 3-D models you will experience some flex. but it will not matter. As someone stated earlier in this post, some people refuse to accept that these are not sport planes and try to fly them fast while complaining the entire time. Example= My best flying buddy and 40 year modeler practicly rips the wings off my tribute every time he flies it. I on the other hand love this plane and think it flies perfect for my style of 3-D. BTW it has a e-flite park 370 4100kv, cc25a esc, kokam 1500 3s, hs-55 servos and is an exellent 3-D trainer

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
'round here most folks fly them outdoors, not a lot of indoor areas.
Some flat plates flex more than others. The Shockies flex a lot, the Tribute flexes a lot, the Eflite Ultimate doesn't flex as much as a lot of the kits and my homebuilts (and some oof the other folks) don't apear to flex at all. Granted these aren't s'posed to be speed demons but there's no reason why they shouldn't take "normal" flight loads if they're designed properly. Cross bracing, "U" channel fuses, and lots of other nifty tricks can and do help reduce or eliminate flex so these *can* be fine out door and traditionaly flown models.
I think the biggest trouble is that most folk don't expect much from foam and accept the short commings of many of these models instead of correcting them.
RobII

[rcfoamy]

NO.. foamies are NOT mostly for the indoors only the ones poorly built or designed are.. We had the Akro 3D being flown in 15-20 mph winds by Josh Glavin team Hitec at 2005 SEFF without any problems, the EV is flown alot also in wind will handle 15+ mph with out any problems and we have not ripped any wing off yet and believe me we have done some very violent snaps and others and they stay together.. The trick is in the construction and carbon use.. I have almost 150 flights on the first production run of my EV and still no problems..
AXI 2212/26 with CC25 controller and a 3 cell Tanic 1550mak pack and AUW is 15.5 oz.

[rcfoamy]

Pic of the EV

[rcfoamy]

Here are a pair of the Akro 3D planes..

[pcm1024]

opinions will vary
That is what makes our hobby cool.
lots of models to choose from

[BobMaine]

Would/could someone paste a link to a "Foam Basics" page please? I would like to know the differences between the types of foam including cost, where to buy, how to glue, paint, cut, whatever. I see different kinds of foam mentioned in the forums but would like a basic primer that covers their attributes. Thanks.
Bob

[qban_flyer]

Would/could someone paste a link to a "Foam Basics" page please? I would like to know the differences between the types of foam including cost, where to buy, how to glue, paint, cut, whatever. I see different kinds of foam mentioned in the forums but would like a basic primer that covers their attributes. Thanks.
Bob

I wish I could give you a detailed explanation on all types of foam available to us. I use exclusiely FFF (fan folded foam), which is sold by Home Depot. I won't be able to elaborate on Depron, EPP, Styro, etc., etc., etc. Cost of a bundle of FFF is around $34 or so it is approximately 1/4 thick, comes in 2X4 feet sections that are folded over one another, hence the name fan fold foam.

It is blue in color and made by Dow Chemical under the brand name Blucor. It has theat name name printed all over, the printing is easily removed with a paper towel soaked in alcohol. FFF is easy to cut with an x-acto knife and it is easy to decorate with either Krylon Short Cuts or Krylon Fusion spray paints. They are light weight and cover in three to four very thin coats sprayed from about 18" away from the foam.

To glue parts for an airplane made of FFF, you have remove a film film on the foam itself at the area where the adhesive is going to be applied. Foam CA is great for gluing the parts together. For hinging purposes I use regular packing tape. It is cheap and very effective.

You can fashion any type of model from FFF. From a profile 3D type to one with a full fuselage with formers using the foam as if it were balsa wood. The only limitation with FFF is one's own imagination.

Hope some others familiar with the other types of foam come to your assistance.

Below you'll find a photo of my latest FFF project. It is an enlarged version of the venerable I.F.O. fashioned of FFF, a carbon rod for "wing" spar and a basswood "spine" to double as front to back reinforcement, as well as motor mount.

[kolarshooter]

Nothing flies like a Shockie (and nobody flies it like Zak, which was mentioned earlier, but even lesser mortals can have fun with one).

The Blade is a very durable, excellent option as a 3d trainer. Much of the kit is silly (as is the aileron servo mounting setup) but with a few tweaks it will last for years.

The cheaper EPP 3d planes from slofly.com are among my favorites, and probably a better choice than the Blade (though a bit more responsive, which can also mean a bit harder to fly).

I built a Flat Out and sold it a few days later. Draw your own conclusion. I will not be getting another.

Haven't built or flown anything from E-Flite, so no comment.


Dave North
A reasoned response to a reasonable question. Ditto.

[timocharis]

kolar: thanks!

RobII: I agree. One of my best outdoor planes is a shockie with some bracing and a little extra carbon. It can take some abuse, but one does have to be a bit careful.

On the other hand, my Horsefly Hobbies Dr1 is a crash stud! I've given it two hard noseins with no ill effect at all. Mike stuck a ply box in the front end, and it really makes a difference. It's pretty durable and handles wind reasonably well.


Dave North

[Elfwreck]

Hey now,
Shockies aren't to my taste, but that's a personal problem.
My old Eflite Ultimates flew in winds of over fifteen mph with no trouble at all and my overbuilt non-flex homebuilts do well in high winds too, to the point that I'll send them up even when my other models are grounded by the winds.
I know foamies can be built tough and work fine out doors, I just don't know why so few designers do it that way.
RobII

[qban_flyer]

I know foamies can be built tough and work fine out doors, I just don't know why so few designers do it that way.
RobII

So I found out when I put my second G/P Cap-580 Flat-Out. Eight additional thin carbon rod struts using some of the extra fittings in the parts trees eliminated the wild flutter that killed my first one.