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BlizzardBoy
08-31-2006, 02:25 AM
My parents sometimes get magazines in the mail that sell gifts. The type of gifts are usually interesting (like novelty) but have a use.

Was reading an ad about this electric car that they were developing.

One person only, weighs 3000 lbs, and is 8.5' L x 39" W x 60" H. Apparantly, you don't need to do parallel parking on a street with it - you could park perindicular to the other cars, because it's not long. Although it is small, it is high, and to make sure that it doesn't tip over, it has a low CoG, 1100 lbs of batteries underneath you.

Apparantly it's safer than most suv's on the road. It has a strong roll cage, and low CoG. It meets all North American safety standards.

Now, sure, sounds like a personal transporter, nothing too fancy right? Something that you might see 1 in 10 000 people driving? It's a joke! So small, you can't do anything?

Then what caught my eye was that it has a top speed of 120 mph, and goes from 0 - 60 mph in 4 seconds! 4 seconds! On a full charge of batteries it can go between 40 and 80 miles. Not bad for an electric car! This is all done using two electric engines... or motors... are there such a thing as electric engines?

Wow, 0-60 in 4.0 seconds.

Wanna buy one? 109 000$ CDN.

http://www.hammacher.com/publish/10954.asp

-- Zan

BlizzardBoy
08-31-2006, 02:28 AM
Just a comparison,

the electric car does 0 - 60 mph in 4.0 seconds, while a Lotus Elise (a light-weight sports car, with good acceleration) does 0 - 60 mph in about 5 seconds.

-- Zan

firemanbill
08-31-2006, 02:34 AM
I'd like to have something like that to go back and forth to work with. Funny thing is it talks about the average commute time in the ad when NO ONE THAT ACTUALLY HAS TO WORK CAN AFFORD ONE!:D

Maybe one of these days we will be able to actually buy some of this stuff!

Rugar
08-31-2006, 02:39 AM
This is all done using two electric engines... or motors... are there such a thing as electric engines?

Zan

A Motor is Electric. A Engine is internal combustion. Our Electric Planes and Heli's use motors, not engines.

ForestCam
08-31-2006, 02:43 AM
They forgot something.
:D

Rugar
08-31-2006, 02:45 AM
They forgot something.
:D

LMAO! Now there is a Christmas gift we can all give to our wife's. A 120mph electric broom. :p

ForestCam
08-31-2006, 02:55 AM
A Motor is Electric. A Engine is internal combustion. Our Electric Planes and Heli's use motors, not engines.

But explain this then,


Motor Mounthttp://www.autozone.com/images/grey_line.gif
ANCHOR Motor Mount for a 1993 GMC Truck C1500 1/2ton P/U 2WD
Unit Price: $27.99
Core Value*: $0.00
Part No.: 2621
Weight: 2.9 lbs.
Warranty: LLT (http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=az/customer_service/shopping_at_autozone/warranty.jsp)
Availability: http://www.autozone.com/images/icon_web_in.gif Online: Ships within 2 business days http://www.autozone.com/images/icon_store_in.gif Store: Normally Stocked

http://www.autozone.com/images/template_images/autozone_com_r_logo.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~forestcam2/tongue.gif

Sky Sharkster
08-31-2006, 01:30 PM
I also thought that it was a strict "Motor/Electric" vs "Engine/I.C." division but here's what Webster's School + Office (1995 version) has to say;
en-gine n 1. a machine for converting energy into force and motion....3. A mechanical contrivance.
mo-tor n 1. a comparatively small engine, esp. an internal combustion engine, as in an automobile. 2. something that imparts motion. 3. a machine that converts electrical energy into mechanical energy.
So, generally we are right in calling an electric powerplant a "motor" but according to the "engine" definition # 1 it wouldn't be incorrect to call it an "engine".
Conversely, a small engine (of any type) can be called a "motor". As in "motorcar".
But I'll still keep calling electrics "motors" and I.C. powerplants "engines"!!
Ron

nova801428
08-31-2006, 06:11 PM
I'd rather have a motorcycle that goes way faster, but who really cares how fast something can go or start out. Do we really need to go 0-60 in 4 seconds. In my personal opinion, you would still be using and be paying for electricity bill instead of gas. If everybody got an electric car, electicity bill would sky rocket. And think how long it would take you to charge all those batteries. Or, we could all ride mopeds......jk. For the price, I would not even considerate it. You could buy a motorcycle (no not those motorcycles that have car size engines in them) and go twice the distance and twice as fast and get there way sooner than you ever would with the electric car.

BlizzardBoy
08-31-2006, 06:29 PM
I tend to agree with you there nova.

I'm not saying that this car is practical, but now electric cars are STARTING to get more practical. This particular model is fast - something a lot of electric cars aren't. Sure it might not have great range, and might take a while to charge, but I'm sure over time they'll fix it.

This particular car is using lead-acid batteries. I've read in a science magazine that a university team (forget which one) built an electric car using laptop batteries. These batteries were Li-On batteries (but not li-po). Apparantly it could fully charge in just an hour, had great range, and a nice speed for an electric car of the day. Overall I had the impression that the car was pretty practical. It could seat a few people, and had a trunk - a family car.

The problem was that the batteries were extremely expensive, and that's why you don't see Li-on or Li-Po battery powered cars.

Another problem with electric is - where do you get the energy to make electricity? Sure you might think that you're not burning gas, and therfore are helping the environment, but that coal power plant down the road that charges your car's batteries is not.

If electricity was cheap for some reason, then an electric car may be cheaper to run, because gas prices might keep climbing. Another advantage of electric is that there are fewer moving parts, and don't need as much maintenance. Still I don't believe electric will catch on too quickly 'cause there is no infrastructure to support it. The mechanics wouldn't know how to fix it, there are not charging stations, large car companies aren't designing them, etc.

-- Zan

firemanbill
08-31-2006, 06:34 PM
It's just like our little electric planes fellas!

It's the wave of the future and like anything, the more they make the cheaper it becomes. The biggest hurdle is public acceptance...

We americans really love our fossil fuels. No matter what they want to charge us for it we just keep on buying it!

PerlAddict
08-31-2006, 06:50 PM
I didn't read the article, but this thing looks almost identical at first glance to a prototype I saw my freshman year of college back in 1999 or 2000. That one could take two passengers sitting front to back, however. There was an online video to accompany the article (not sure if this was Popular Mechs/Sci, but that's where we used to find a lot of this stuff), and it was awesome. The one we were reading about used gyro's along with that low CG, and in the video you watched him take a corner like it was nothing. Said it would out accelerate a stock Viper and out-corner a Porsche. Was hard to believe just looking at the drawings and 3D models, but that video sure made my jaw drop.

Wish I could find that old video, but given that it was 6 or 7 years ago, the chances are probably slim. If it came from that prototype, though, and is actually available now, that's really stinkin' cool!

PerlAddict
08-31-2006, 06:54 PM
As an aside, don't spend too much time on that site in the link ... you'll get depressed over how many cool toys they have compared to how many bags of spare money you have just lying around. I've already filled out my Christmas wish list for the next 30 years. lol

frvrngn
08-31-2006, 08:08 PM
Fast electric cars are nothing new. An electric motor generates all its torque right at start up. The problem in the past has been finding half-shafts that will handle all that torque. The other problem with fast motors is power consumption. Faster you go, less distance - same as a gas car. Check around online for people that have hopped up little electric golf carts. They have them that will easily run 0-60 in under 4secs.

There is an electrified Ariel Atom, one of the fastest, most minimalistic cars out there with a regular gas engine that will outrun Vipers, Ferraris and most any other car with its electric setup. Problem is range.

There is a company in CA that is swapping all the batteries out of the Toyota Prius for Li-Ion's to make the Super Prius cars. They did some other little things as well. Either way, they are now getting 150mpg on average! That to me is a lot more practical than an electric only car. They are also looking into making a diesel electric hybrid to extend that range even more.

Even more wild look up online the e.Volution concept car from S Africa. It runs on compressed air! 200km range currently on $0.30 worth of energy. Supposed to go into production next year. They are working on using a diesel to run an onboard compressor. If that happens, they are claiming New York to LA trips would be possible on one tank of fuel! Here is a small link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/988265.stm

ForestCam
08-31-2006, 08:11 PM
As an aside, don't spend too much time on that site in the link ... you'll get depressed over how many cool toys they have compared to how many bags of spare money you have just lying around. I've already filled out my Christmas wish list for the next 30 years. lol
Exactly what I thought as I was looking at all the "toys"! LOL

BTW, that 2 cycle R/C boat looks awesome! :D

BlizzardBoy
08-31-2006, 08:25 PM
Well, apparantly, the people who made the last X-prize contest (the one where something like 10 million$ went out to the first civilian into space, who made and designed their own rocket), have made a new contest.

Not all the rules have been outlined yet, but it's something like the first 100 mpg mass produced car. You get a prize of something like 25 million$ if you are the first to make a car with over 100 mpg that the masses accept. The number of cars that need to sold, however, has yet to be determined.

I'm sure someone is going to succeed, and this would be a great way to make the masses change from fuel guzzling SUVS, to highly efficient cars.

-- Zan

firemanbill
08-31-2006, 08:55 PM
I'm sure someone is going to succeed, and this would be a great way to make the masses change from fuel guzzling SUVS, to highly efficient cars.

-- Zan

Yeah we tried that back in the 80's too. Ever seen a K car???

It didn't work back then. Maybe now it will...

PerlAddict
08-31-2006, 09:08 PM
That always makes me think of that BareNaked Ladies song, "If I Had A Million Dollars." :D

That compressed air thing sounds interesting. I find myself raising an eyebrow at just about anything that claims cross-country trips on one tank of fuel, though. Especially after Denny Klein (http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/05/22/video-revolutionary-water-based-power-for-cars/) being in the headlines recently and all the dispute revolving around "new" idea, not to mention Carl Tilley (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tilley+foundation) being right in our backyard as Tennesseans. Back when I worked at the ABC station in Nashville, he was in the news quite a bit, and I later worked with a guy who had invested quite a bit into his foundation. I usually prefer the people I invest my money in not to get raided by the TBI. :D

I can't wait to see more alternative fuel cars hit the mainstream market in the next decade. I used to think my little Saturn and Accord were doing pretty well, but even now there's so many better ways to save. Changing jobs and cutting my commute from a 45 minute drive to a 10 minute one sure helped, too.

All electric power just seems like a conundrum to me in that, if everyone used it, especially at it's current efficiency, how much more fossil fuel would have to be burned to produce the electricity that would all those vehicles?

Of course, it's all a moot point for me ... I'm getting me one of those personal hovercraft scooters (http://www.hammacher.com/publish/10321.asp?promo=xsells) and a stylin' bike helmet. :D Nothing says "I'm awesome" like a button down shirt, tie, and bright red bike helmet while you ski down the road. lol

SkunkWorks
08-31-2006, 09:19 PM
This is where its at.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/04/technology/business2_wrightspeed/

PerlAddict
08-31-2006, 09:27 PM
"A Car That Could Save the Planet -- Fast"

I was totally expecting to see a new Batmobile. :D

nova801428
08-31-2006, 09:37 PM
maybe we'll be hit by a another planet way before the fossil fuels run out. (Don't want to scare people, sorry)

SkunkWorks
08-31-2006, 09:40 PM
maybe we'll be hit by a another planet way before the fossil fuels run out. (Don't want to scare people, sorry)

LOL...

Im not gunna lie, I have a gas guzzling car and love it. Though....I wouldnt mind the instant power/torque of an electric motor = to mine....waiting for boost is the worst....

nova801428
08-31-2006, 09:42 PM
yeah, I've got a v6 ranger and it doesn't get good gas mileage

firemanbill
08-31-2006, 09:46 PM
yeah, I've got a v6 ranger and it doesn't get good gas mileage

I have a fuel hog F-150 but the 67' Beetle is the one that get's all the driving nowadys!:D Unless I'm taking the planes to the field that is.

VW had the right idea back in the day. It is still one of the most economical cars to drive! Not too many 1967 cars running around the highway on a daily basis.

nova801428
08-31-2006, 09:47 PM
not making fun of vw because I do like there style and everthing but whenever a vw passes me it sounds like a go-cart passing by!!!

SkunkWorks
08-31-2006, 10:01 PM
Mine isnt THAT bad I guess....18mpg mostly freeway here...but every time I turn the key I get a smile on my face hehe. Thanks ford!

PerlAddict
08-31-2006, 10:11 PM
My fiancee wants a big ol' F-150 Supercrew. I had to put my foot down on it last summer, but I'm afraid I may not be able to quell that need when it resurfaces again.

There was much debate and a little crying over it last summer, but my car's paid off, hers isn't, and we want kids in the next 3 years with her being a stay-at-home mom. Since she brings home twice what I do currently ... I don't want to be paying for a her new baby and our new baby. lol

firemanbill
08-31-2006, 10:20 PM
not making fun of vw because I do like there style and everthing but whenever a vw passes me it sounds like a go-cart passing by!!!

Yeah but it's a go kart getting 35 mpg!

Perl I see a F-150 in your future! lol

BlizzardBoy
08-31-2006, 10:47 PM
Mmm...

My vehicle has one man-power:), and can haul up to 200 lbs in the "trunk". MPG doesn't quite apply to it:p - fuel is free. Has a top speed of about 45 km/h! And never does 0 - 60, but can do 0 -30 in about 5 seconds!

I've seen on T.V., though, these real fancy bikes, where you are in a shuttle, with the bike below you. You pretty much lie down to use them. The racers who were driving them were doing over 80 mph! I find that pretty remarkable. Just think, if the average person could do 40 mph in it, that is still pretty darn good! If your workplace is only 10 miles away, it'd only take you 15 minutes to get there, if it were flat, and pretty much straight:p.

Not very practical though, I assume they are expensive, but I know they are hard to get in and out of - you'd need a helper, so you don't tip over when you stop. I'm sure though, they'd find some way to fix that, like training wheels, or a place where you can stick your leg out to prop yourself... These fancy bikes also don't turn too well either.

Still that's pretty fast in my books for one man.

-- Zan

ForestCam
09-01-2006, 01:27 AM
I find myself raising an eyebrow at just about anything that claims cross-country trips on one tank of fuel, though.
All electric power just seems like a conundrum to me in that, if everyone used it, especially at it's current efficiency, how much more fossil fuel would have to be burned to produce the electricity that would all those vehicles?
My parents had a '72 Open Road motor home with a small block 350 that could make it from Michigan to Kentucky on a single fill up!






































Ok so my dad added 2 extra 50 gallon tanks under it, what?! :p

But that brings me to my point, I love the car ads nowdays that don't talk about mileage but rather "Can go 350 miles on a single tank.", ok, a lot of things can go that far on a single tank of gas if the tanks big enough! LOL

firemanbill
09-01-2006, 01:29 AM
Oh Yeah!

I can go 500 miles on a fill up in my truck, of course that's filling up both 17 gallon tanks! :eek: :(

ForestCam
09-01-2006, 01:34 AM
Filled up the GMC the other day @ $2.66 for the first time in I can't remember (taking it camping tomorrow) and I still winced when the pump shut off at $65! Dang 27 gallon tank!:eek:

Of course today gas is $2.54 :rolleyes:

firemanbill
09-01-2006, 01:40 AM
Filled up the GMC the other day @ $2.66 for the first time in I can't remember (taking it camping tomorrow) and I still winced when the pump shut off at $65! Dang 27 gallon tank!:eek:

Of course today gas is $2.54 :rolleyes:


Of course, I filled up at 2.59, both tanks since I figure hey it'll go back up soon enough. Now it.s 2.49:(

UncleBob
09-01-2006, 01:45 AM
I had a Jetta TDi 5 speed manual - got 52 mpg regularly. It's The Wave Of The Future I tell you.

SkunkWorks
09-01-2006, 02:04 AM
Your lucky. Gas is about 3.15 here.

Rugar
09-01-2006, 02:06 AM
Of course, I filled up at 2.59, both tanks since I figure hey it'll go back up soon enough. Now it.s 2.49:(

I can only dream of that price. I filled up a few days ago at $3.19 and thought that was a deal. Mostly been around $3.29 here :mad:.

ForestCam
09-01-2006, 02:08 AM
Your lucky. Gas is about 3.15 here.
That's what diesel is here. I almost feel sorry for those guys driving around in their 3/4 and one ton trucks, not!:p

firemanbill
09-01-2006, 02:09 AM
East coast has it's advantages in some ways I guess! :D

BlizzardBoy
09-01-2006, 03:15 AM
I assume you guys are talking about US gallons? A litre of reg. gas is about 1.10, which is 4.16$ a gallon -- I wouldn't worry about a 0.10$ difference:p

At one point it was averaging something like 1.15$/L which is 4.35$ for you gallon guys. This lasted about 3 weeks, and then dropped down to just 0.95$/L. Last time I checked it was something like 1.08$/L

Of course, this is all CDN funds... About 3.80$ USD for a gallon

-- Zan

firemanbill
09-01-2006, 03:23 AM
It's more expensive up there Zan cuz they have to add that additive to keep it from FREEZING!:eek: :D lol

Serioulsy though I feel for ya having to pay those prices. Look at the bright side though... well nevermind, there's really not a bright side is there:confused:

BlizzardBoy
09-01-2006, 03:32 AM
Bright side is that I don't have a car that requires gas... the only thing I need gas for is my machinery - and I make enough money to afford high gas prices (something like for every 1$ of gas = 32.50$ worth of work) so I'm not complaining :D!

Biking around has its benefits - good shape, and you can out preform your buddies:cool:. Bit hard in the winter though - with all the ice on the sidewalks - bit hard to get to school.

-- Zan

ForestCam
09-01-2006, 03:35 AM
Yea but you Canadians can get cooler vehicles then we can too. Used diesel Toyotas from Japan and those cool little 4 wheel drive Russian cars. :p

BlizzardBoy
09-01-2006, 03:38 AM
A good thing about diesel engines is that you can run 'em on cooking oil. We are getting an electric generator (just for those who get confused: a generator that produces electricty:p). If ever there is a situation where the pumps don't work, and there isn't electricity, just stop by at the local McDonald's! They'd probably be happy to give you the grease, 'cause then they don't have to pay someone to get rid of it.

Apparantly all you have to do is filter it, and make sure it's pure (no french fry bits). Then you put it in your tank. I watched a show (MythBusters) that did a test on it. On the particular car they were testing, it got 33mpg on diesel, and 30mpg on cooking oil.

It has been said though that the oil gums up your engine. I've never heard of any solid proof of this though - so it might be an old wife's tale. I figure if you get a mixture of something like 80% oil 20% diesel, you'd be fine.

Just an idea for those who need it.

-- Zan

fdix
09-01-2006, 03:58 AM
one gallon is 3.79 liters... one liter is about 1.35$ so one gallon would be 5.1$

Welcome to Switzerland...

BlizzardBoy
09-01-2006, 04:01 AM
Yeah, fuel prices in Europe are much higher than they are in North America. I don't understand why North American's complain so much. I guess it's probably because I don't have to drive anywhere...

-- Zan

ForestCam
09-01-2006, 04:04 AM
A good thing about diesel engines is that you can run 'em on cooking oil. We are getting an electric generator (just for those who get confused: a generator that produces electricty:p). If ever there is a situation where the pumps don't work, and there isn't electricity, just stop by at the local McDonald's! They'd probably be happy to give you the grease, 'cause then they don't have to pay someone to get rid of it.

Apparantly all you have to do is filter it, and make sure it's pure (no french fry bits). Then you put it in your tank. I watched a show (MythBusters) that did a test on it. On the particular car they were testing, it got 33mpg on diesel, and 30mpg on cooking oil.

It has been said though that the oil gums up your engine. I've never heard of any solid proof of this though - so it might be an old wife's tale. I figure if you get a mixture of something like 80% oil 20% diesel, you'd be fine.

Just an idea for those who need it.

-- Zan
Actually the only problem with running raw cooking oil is (especially for you guys in the great white north 'eh) is that it's prone to gel at low temperatures. You'd need to install some kind of pre-heater in the fuel tank to keep the veg oil liquid.

This is where getting a refractor (or rather building your own) and converting raw veg-oil into bio-diesel has a destinct advantage.

ForestCam
09-01-2006, 04:06 AM
Yeah, fuel prices in Europe are much higher than they are in North America. I don't understand why North American's complain so much. I guess it's probably because I don't have to drive anywhere...

-- Zan
Thing is that in Europe the high price of fuel is because of the high amount of tax added on that, unlike here in the good ol' US of A, actually goes to improve and maintain the roads.

PerlAddict
09-01-2006, 02:19 PM
Having paid my way through college flipping burgers, baking bread, and butchering meat, I can tell you one thing for sure ... there's no way I would put the stuff that comes OUT of the fryer into my car. Ever. 100% disgusting. It's pretty much grease at that point. I'd be less suprised to see Kevin Costner pee into a machine that turns urine back into water and actually works than I would to see someone make that goop useable.

Now if you could grab one of those big 5 gallon jugs of vegetable oil before it hits those fries ...

Great. Now I want a burger.

syberjunkie
09-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Have ya'll seen this "new" engine?

"The MYT™ (Massive Yet Tiny) Engine, is a breakthrough of immense
proportions that will spawn the next industrial revolution and will rocket the internal
combustion engine into the next millennium. Please spread the word."


http://www.angellabsllc.com

BlizzardBoy
09-02-2006, 04:38 AM
Have ya'll seen this "new" engine?

"The MYT™ (Massive Yet Tiny) Engine, is a breakthrough of immense
proportions that will spawn the next industrial revolution and will rocket the internal
combustion engine into the next millennium. Please spread the word."


http://www.angellabsllc.com

I don't believe it. Betcha it's all a scam, 'cause if it worked, it would be in the market. It says in the specs that it creates over 3000 hp? 3000 hp would rip that thing apart. Also, how do you just CREATE this kind of power? Unless you are using a HUGE amount of fuel, it can't be done.

Still even if it all does work, why isn't in the market? The market does move quickly when it has an opportunity to make money. There is something wrong with it.

I wouldn't fall for it. If it were true (unless it came out a week ago) it'd be in magazines and the papers.

-- Zan

TLyttle
09-03-2006, 02:15 AM
yeah, it's all the same snakeoil; back when I had hair there was a simple piece that went between the carb and the manifold that was supposed to increase fuel mileage by 50%. It looked like an impeller from our EDFs, that was it. Sure, sure.

When I am too old to drive, I am going to build a scooter using solar cells, 16" wheels, wiper motors. It will serve all my purposes, run for free once built. Every year the cost of solar panels comes down, making that project so much easier. While I would like to get "off the grid", I will be one step closer.

BlizzardBoy
09-03-2006, 04:12 PM
Good luck with that TLyttle!

I have a family friend who has tunnel vision, and is not able to work or drive because of it. So, to get around he tried making an electric bicycle, but it didn't work out too well. Then he made an electric tricycle, and it worked great.

He brought it over one time, and I was able to ride it. Did about 40 km/h top speed, and could accelerate to that in no time. Used batteries, not solar panels though....

Before you start, I think you should do a bit of reasearch, because you reach a point where when you aren't allowed to drive, you won't be able to drive a electric vehicle either - if it's too powerful. The friend checked this, and managed to get a motor from a (sorry I don't know the correct term) electric buggy that you see handicaps riding on. It was a 2 HP engine too - a bit powerful eh? He was still allowed on the streets with it though, which is good!

-- Zan

TLyttle
09-05-2006, 02:31 AM
Yup, had a loooong look at all this: I used to build vehicles for the handicapped, and studying the rules covering all this stuff. All I want is a handicap scooter with attitude. I've seen people stuck in an inch of snow on a normal scooter, but bike wheels cut right into fairly deep snow; as a Canadian, youi know how important that is!

I forgot to mention that it will be made of wood, my favourite construction medium. When I was fighting with the bureaucrats about their witless testing system, I built a wood car, and it was my intention to electrify it once it was allowed on the road. It was a Toyota pickup, and in its present configuration gets 50+ mpg and is a dream to drive. The engine moved back 2', and it lost 40% of its weight in the conversion. I'll try for a pic...

syberjunkie
09-06-2006, 07:39 PM
haha, check this chair out, it won't get stuck in an inch of snow:

(click the pic for the website)

http://www.tankchair.com/img/home.jpg (http://www.tankchair.com)

TLyttle
09-07-2006, 05:30 AM
#5 is alive!!!

firemanbill
09-07-2006, 11:51 AM
Now that's a chair!!! :eek: A neat story on the website about it's invention as well.