Build 2 House of Balsa AT6 Texan Micro Electric
OK so I am going to start a build. This will be my second. I am building the AT6 Texan from House of Balsa.. The Micro Electric Version
I can't show you a pic of the box since I don't have it yet. It is coming today.
What I can do is attach some pics of what I am thinking of using as a covering pattern. My last model turned out kind of ugly, So I am planning ahead. It has occurred to me to just do Standard military covering.. However unlike the Cub which seems to always be the same... I have seen AT6 models with every color in the rainbow and patterns accordingly
Here are a few schemes I have come up with. They all Incorporated the same basic colors, since I ordered a selection of covering. The covering I purchased was... from Hanger 9 the parklite: creme, silver (aluminum) yellow, and Orange, and the solarfilm metalic red. I also have the most part of a roll of Yellow microlite. I hate the microlite yellow so If I decide on yellow I am thinking I will buy the parklite
so I am attaching a few drawings I have done. I have not included any of the standard military patterns. Which I may just wind up doing.
The thing is.. on my 1st model the thing I had the most trouble with was the covering. I have learned from experience, that when you push yourself.. you improve so these schemes are designed to challenge me.
here we go:
anyone who has an opinion please state it. I really hate do to stock stuff, but I am seeing that in the scale world. Standard color schemes seem to be.... Well STANDARD
power and control
I have ordered the following from Hobby King (I know but their prices are amazing!
The Original plans call for a long 400 sized brushed. I wanted brushless, of course so I emailed HOB and they replied with a couple of motors which you can't get any more or at least not that I can find.. What is it with these kit builders. Anyway it was a 1480 KV 10 amp motor
so I picked this
Hobby king recommended a7x4 prop. Of course they are stocked only at the international warehouse, so I didn't include with this build.. when I order this kind of thing I always order at least 5 so I do have some 9x4.5s and a few other sizes. I am asking for advice on this from you people because I really don't get the prop thing fully. I know this plane is supposed to be fast, and a 4 pitch doesn't seem like very steep so I am wondering. I may just get an assortment since they are cheep and I entend to stock up anyway. I also ordered a watt meter. I have 2 20c 2 cell 1,200 mha packs and 2 3 cell 1,200 mha packs. LYpo of course.
I may buy a new pack as HOB recommended 1000.
I already have a Hobbywing 30A speed controlle brushless esc left over from when I burned up my 1st cheap motor testing it with too big a prop. so I will use this unless you people think that would be a mistake. I know it is heavy but the kit called for the older style heavy battery pack so I really don't think that this will be an issue... do you?
HOB calls 4 3 micro sized servos.
I picked these
they are the highest quality I could find with not to high a tag and I found great comments from people on a park flyer forum somewhere.
I purchased the OrangeRX 6 Ch Flight Receiver - DSM2/DSMX Compatible from Ebay since Hobby King seems to perpetually be on back order. (good sign?)
I have read great reviews on these. it is supposed to be full range, but It doesn't have a full length antenna lead so I am somewhat worried about it. I am thinking since this plane is only 38" wingspan I won't need so much range because I will not be able to see it that far out. ?????
I will start the kit tonight or tomorrow... depending on my wife of course. She just ordered herself a new high quality Djembe from Wula drum. It will be in today so she will either want to play it by herself (this is usually the case since she is a pro player and I am not very good) or she will want me to drum with her... Which I will do if she wants.
The motor you selected:
Is rated at 40amps...the ESC you have is rated at 30amps........the common practice is to use an ESC rated equal to or more than the motor spec's.....particularly if you intend to use larger diameter props that provide more thrust......
On a 38" wing span (weight unknown) 9g servos work just as well....metal gear is a good choice.
DSM2/DSMX TX/RX combo should be fine for a park flyer.
You were talking about the "Range" of the reciever and antenna length.
What transmitter are you using? That is where range is important. Your reciever dose transmit telemetery data on cretain models, but it is your transmitter that truly determines the range for control purposes. Believe it or not, 2.4Ghz dosn't require a very long antenna at all. Especially at 1/2 or 1/4 wave.
and weight is supposed to be around 20 OZ
the orange has 2 about 2 inches each
that is my concern.
OK now I AM confused
here is what the hobby king site says about this motor
D2826-6 2200kv Outrunner Motor
Voltage: 2S~3S (7.4v to 11.1v)
Max Current: 21A
Suggested Prop: 7x4(3S) ~ 9x4.7 (2S)
Mounting Hole Bolt Circle: 16mm or 19mm
PRODUCT ID: D2826-101400
max current 21 A
but exc of 40????
what is up with that... am I missing something in my knowledge about ESCs and motors. I mean this is a dc to 3 phase converter that can can be timed by motor feed back. and pulse duration controls the output power. so.. I am not sure why I would need a 40 amp ESC for a 30 amp motor.. if it took 10 amps of power to drive the esc which only outputs 30 amps. That would be horribly inefficient.
can you clarify this for me?
also.. If I use 2 small of an esc.. am I simply limiting the maximum power I can get out of the motor? Or is it possible to burn up the ESC that way?
Evidently, the motor "manufacture" suggests a 40amp ESC.
The spec's seem to imply a "max current draw of 21amps"....?
I simply implied a "practical and basic approach" to your question based on the "facts" HK provides.....lol...no need to get all "I got this" "whats up with this" on the subject. If I remember correctly, your'e new at this! Seems the "I am an old electronics guy" has more answers than questions....lol
There a ton of variables that will effect what your motor amp draw will be (see previous posts) and ESC section of this site.
I'd recommend that you take some of the guess work out of picture. check this site out:
These guys test everything they suggest to use. Thumb through the sport plane motor recommendations....use all the data you can muster up on your build intent, then compare that to what HK provides....you wouldn't be the first guy who ran with HK info to only be more confused than you were before you started...and disappointed after a motor purchase.
I'll pass on this post (and others by drummaker) in the future........
Good luck and enjoy your adventure.
Hey, drummaker....look at post #5....most of your questions will be answered. :tc: (though the whole thread is an excellent read)
IMO You want your ESC to be able to handle more amps than your motor, usually promotes cooler running electronics. Kinda like a buffer zone, and of course you don't want your ESC getting too hot and shutting down in mid-air!
IMO The size of plane sometimes denotes the size of the "buffer", but usually falls around with the ESC 15-20% larger than the max amps of the motor.
Of course, the bigger the plane is, the less you have to worry about size of ESC.
I personally like big huge ESC's(usually 50%bigger):D, but I prop motors a little much sometimes(gotta have wattmeter to do this).
Your probably okay with the 40 amp IMO. Google/Bing it and you'll find other peoples setups to give you a better idea. (i.e., 3530 motor with a 40amp ESC)
have a good one:)
& +1 on headsuprc.com link, they tell/show you what you need to have a successfull electric motor setup!!
So... Thank you for pointing something out to me. I actually had an online chat with Hobbyking about this. And they gave me as Vague of info as people here.
I have decided that I am going to wait for my watt meter, mount the motor something, put a prop on it.. Try this ESC and see what is happening.
so Thanks for the post AND info
I have decided that I am going to wait for my watt meter, mount the motor something, put a prop on it.. Try this ESC and see what is happening.
My biggest issue and the thing that confuses me the most is prop sizing and pitch. I actually imagined a 3 blade prop on this.. I just can't find anything that seems trigger my brain to wrap around the whole thing. For instance
Does a 3 blade 6/4 prop pull 3/2 the power of a 2 blade 6/4?
How much more power consumption is eaten up by more pitch?
do airplane props slip a lot?
I think I know but am not sure of this
If I have a 7x4 prop and draw 20 amps at full throttle I will go X fast with a model of X drag
If I increase to 7x5 I know I will draw more current.. How much faster will the plane go?
This stuff seems really vague to me... I think this plane needs lots of speed but I really don't know how much I know that this motor puts out a hell of a lot more power than a long can 400
My understanding by reading a different thread about this plane is the guy was using a 2400KV brushed motor and a small prop this makes sense.. How would I determine if I know the pitch of the prop he was using how what pitch I would have to use to achieve the same speed with a 1450KV motor
Art is definately NOT my forte and I really don't sometimes know what looks good or bad till sometime later. It seems like if my brain comes up with it. My perception of it is good for a while. Then some time down the line I go... What was I thinking?
so comments on the patterns are welcome and desired.
I just followed it. This seems to be a great site. I wonder how I missed it after so much surfing and reading.
Thanks for the suggestion. I am thinking this site is a keeper
By all means, Heads Up RC is a great place to do business. They are very knowledgeable, do their own testing on their motors and are darned near the price of Hobby King. $2.00 ships just about anything. I'd use 'em!
If you're not going to follow a real plane's color scheme I like the second to last example you posted. The high contrast will make it easier to orient your model. It might be a good idea to make the left wing different in some conspicuous way from the right and the top markedly different from the bottom. This helps with orientation.
Here we Go
OK so the kit came in I layed out all the parts. It seems to all be there but there is no pats list. This kit is pretty complete with decals, a color chart, plastic cowling, and scoop.
After having done the Mountain models cub though I am a little disappointing in the hardware supplied. I will need to buy pushrod ends, wheels and other misc stuff. There was a nice list in the instructions and manufacturers part numbers, so that is cool.
The instructions are Beautiful. All of the pictures are in color and clear as can be. Just like the other model however it talks about putting in parts by name not by the number on the part. This is a small issue though since the pics are Very Clear.
The main spar is very healthy being I suppose 3/16 thick and of course the laser cutting is awesome.
I have noticed on both kits so far that the parts seem to fall out of the parts sheet. This is not Really a big problem. but It is a little bothersome. I am thinking I would rather have to sand a little thicker attachment point than have to deal with the parts falling out of the sheets, but never having experience that I don't know for sure.
The trailing edge of the wing is formed by laying down a flat balsa strip, then a 1/8th square at the back side of that, then after the rips are glued down another flat strip. This seems to be straight forward.
The front edge is a 3/16 square balsa (strip) that is glued into the fronts of the ribs at a 45 so that the corner points forward. This makes it very nice to shape the leading edge.
I finished the left side last night and forgot to take pics of the finished wing. I did one modification. Last model I did I noticed that the sheeting ran away from the sanding block because it would flex mid span. I cut some of the 1/32 sheeting material which is left over to about 1/8 wide and then glued it on the inside of the wing to the sheeting on one side and the spars on the other. This adds almost no weight, and the sheeting is now rigid and the wing much more stable... Hope this wasn't wrong.
here is a pic. I didn't take many last night and I intend to remedy this next time.
If you look at the plan you see that there are 2 ribs right next to each other labeled R4 this is actually r4 and r5 R5 is the only one that I have put in at this point since it is actually the end of the left wing section. R4 is part of the middle section.
R5 is actually cut to to in at an angle so that it will meet up with r4 and create a Dihedral. the ends of all the spars get cut off flush with the rib. I red the instructions several times because I couldn't understand the shape at the end of the main spar.. (at the top of the pic) It did however need to be cut off though... ( I hope anyway.. pretty sure!)
I took the completed wing and stood it on end on rib r5 and low and behold when I put a square next to it It was at an angle which left about a 1.5 inch gap. (the amount of dihedral that is supposed to be in the wing.) I sure hope there isn't an angle on r4 or the dihedral will be off and I will be filling gaps wit glue or something.
The r4 and 5 get later in the process to install a spar double I think it is called.. a brace anyway
frick the motor mount
so... there is only one motor mount with the kit. It is designed to mount a speed 400 brushed motor behind the mount with shaft pointing out.
I know the motor I ordered is designed to mount to the back..
thus far in my limited experience, all the outrunners I have seen mount with the firewall at the back.
I have investigated and I can't seem to find any the other way around... I have seen threads about reversing the shaft.. but non that I considered clear. I posted a question in the motor building thread someone will help I am sure
Options I am considering are:
Cut the existing mount shorter by the amount needed to make the motor stick out just the right amount.. I haven't made sure yet that there will be even enough room for this.
Build my own mount or buy a comercial one.. which emulates the down and left angles of the old mount.. Not sure how to measure.
If I do the one above I think I will make something that I can adjust by with threads through nuts somehow then locked down.
Reverse the shaft. So far my prefered method. I will know more when I get the motor
Buy a motor that mounts the right way...
I am totally open to recommendations here. Anyone?
Looks like there is no Real official color pattern for the T-6. I have been searching and found only a reference that said that that there were no official colors for Trainer planes.
I do see that by far the most common color is yellow. I am tired of yellow!
Still not sure of what to do.
I have to say that the metallic red covering is Beautiful..
I have seen Texans every color and pattern you can imagine. I guess this because so many made it into civilian life.
I think I will play around wit the red because it is so beautiful and Orange because it is so visible..
Just don't know.
Any artists looking that want to give me a brilliant design? :tc:
Dude, relax on the motor mount, If you want help, place the motor on the plans where you think it should go. Take a good pic and post it. You will get a ton of ideas. There are lots of options on mounting an outrunner. Me personally, not seeing the plans or anything, I would move/modify the firewall before taking the motor apart.:cool:
This planning thing is just how my brain works... I can't stop it
Here is the colors I think I will use (as of now of course but I am fickle when it comes to this kind of stuff.
You might be interested in this post on visibility and orientation on my website. Not That I have anything startling to offer, but I included a link in there to a really good article on the subject by someone who knows about colors and visibility.
Visibility and Orientation
Secondly, this plane makes a horrible stock build, when built by plans. The plane was designed for a heavy brushed motor and heavy NiCd batteries. It would have been quite heavy at stock weight, and can be much lighter with modern gear, but it will NOT balance without modifications or massive amounts of lead when using lipo and a lighter motor. I prefer modifications, versus having to unscrew an allen key of all things, removing the wing each flight for battery access, and requiring ounces of useless nose ballast.
I started with this plane as a noob, and for the sheer hell of it continued working on it after gaining some experience. Not really a great model, but something to tinker with. It now has a geared brushed can motor, which was not terribly difficult to bash in place. An outrunner would be more practical, leaving the entire fuse front open for a battery bay, but I managed to work the bay in with the slight motor offset that the gearbox provided.
Like an FW190, you will generally either mount the battery forward, or use large amounts of unfavorable lead. The fuse construction allows for a relatively easy addition of a battery bay in the top fuse front, fitting a battery similar in size to the EVO 3s-1345, TP 3s-1320, and many others. With a bl outrunner, it should provide more than ample flight times.
Always good to see someone building. Hope the build flys well.
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