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-   -   Strong Motor Issue (http://www.Wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72727)

thepiper92 12-04-2013 08:53 PM

Strong Motor Issue
 
I just received an order from Strong Motors, but I have an issue with one of them. I have to mount my motor the shaft sticking out the stationary side of the motor, and so the the screws go into the motor on the stationary side from the mount. The screws are supposed to be uneven, and you should be able to make a virtual square through the path of the screws. I hope I am explaining this okay. The issue is one of the motors has this the wrong way, so if I line the motor up, two screws are up from where they screw in and two are down. I can't take apart the whole motor and remove the coils and pivot the back of the motor can I. The windings exit out of the side of the part, and there is plenty of space to pivot the windings and thus allowing the motor to mount, but I don't know how to do it.

xmech2k 12-04-2013 09:38 PM

Ouch! My head hurts! ;-) I know it can be tough to describe things like this. Any possibility you can post a pic? Are you saying 2 of the holes are further from the center than the other 2? I think that's common, and most motor mounts take that into consideration.

thepiper92 12-05-2013 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmech2k (Post 933152)
Ouch! My head hurts! ;-) I know it can be tough to describe things like this. Any possibility you can post a pic? Are you saying 2 of the holes are further from the center than the other 2? I think that's common, and most motor mounts take that into consideration.


Haha. Thought it was gonna be confusing. You know the 4 screw holes on the stationary side of the motor, two are closer to the center and two are closer to the edge. If you played connect the dots with the holes
You would get a diamond shape. On the motor mount the holes are the same, but on one of the motors, the way the windings/wires exit causes the holes to line up wrong, so the holes on the motor mount won't line up. I can't pivot the motor as you feed the wires through, mount motor and feed them through again. The wires can't pivot and so I can't pivot the end of the motor to lineup. There is a slot where the winding exit wide enough to pivot the winding so the motor would line up, but the end is attached to the coils, in dont know if I can force the coils to move and cause the winding to move as well. Sorry I have no camera. It was destroyed using it as a cam for an rc car.

Wildflyer 12-05-2013 01:40 AM

Almost all of my smaller out runners, have the holes as you describe. I have some that are 16mm one way and 19mm the other. Some others are 19 x 25

If you can match either spacing, the motor should be mounted solidly enough to fly.

Without seeing your motor, I am going to make a guess as follows;
The stationary part of the motor carries the frame that the wires are wound on. I don't think you could change where the wires exit this piece, as that is sort of set when they wound the motor. I don't think they would have looked at the bolt pattern.

Tell us the model number, or the Strong Sku # Then we can look at the motor you have. You can clearly see the bolt patterns in their pictures. but they don;t show where the wires exit.

thepiper92 12-05-2013 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildflyer (Post 933168)
Almost all of my smaller out runners, have the holes as you describe. I have some that are 16mm one way and 19mm the other. Some others are 19 x 25

If you can match either spacing, the motor should be mounted solidly enough to fly.

Without seeing your motor, I am going to make a guess as follows;
The stationary part of the motor carries the frame that the wires are wound on. I don't think you could change where the wires exit this piece, as that is sort of set when they wound the motor. I don't think they would have looked at the bolt pattern.

Tell us the model number, or the Strong Sku # Then we can look at the motor you have. You can clearly see the bolt patterns in their pictures. but they don;t show where the wires exit.

Okay I just wanted to check. I guess the motor is useless for the mini switch. Luckily I bought 2 and the second one has the mounting holes the right orientation. Was just hoping to make the one useable for the plane

solentlife 12-05-2013 08:19 AM

As other guy says - it's common for 2 hols to be xx mm apart and other 2 to be different mm apart ... the spacings are actually pretty standard for size of motors.

Trick if the motor won't fit in orientation you want - then glue a thin ply or plastic plate to other side of firewall to motor ... then drill through correct holes ... bolt up and Bob's your Aunts Brother ...

Nigel

Flubber 12-05-2013 10:53 AM

Would the solution be to make another hole in the motor mount for the wires ? I have to do this all the time.

thepiper92 12-05-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubber (Post 933196)
Would the solution be to make another hole in the motor mount for the wires ? I have to do this all the time.

I don't have room to make another hole actually. The slots for the wires are incorporated into air inlets just behind the spinner, so where motor mount is installed so there is room between the foam. Its not a big deal anyways, because I had ordered two of the Strong motors and the other one lines up perfectly. I'll just end up using the other one for a future plane maybe, one that has the motor mount on the front with an x bracket.

thepiper92 12-05-2013 07:15 PM

One thing I find annoying is that some of these motors come with 3.2mm shafts, and the collet adapter doesn't fit. The strong rc motor comes with a 3.2mm shaft as well. I have extra shafts from strong motors that are 3mm, but I don't understand why there has to be 3mm and 3.2mm, it should be 3mm, 4mm, 5mm...etc.

solentlife 12-05-2013 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 933221)
One thing I find annoying is that some of these motors come with 3.2mm shafts, and the collet adapter doesn't fit. The strong rc motor comes with a 3.2mm shaft as well. I have extra shafts from strong motors that are 3mm, but I don't understand why there has to be 3mm and 3.2mm, it should be 3mm, 4mm, 5mm...etc.

It's because some shafts are based on Imperial measurements not metric.

You will find in that range - 3.17mm is more common than 3mm in fact.

Nigel

thepiper92 12-05-2013 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 933223)
It's because some shafts are based on Imperial measurements not metric.

You will find in that range - 3.17mm is more common than 3mm in fact.

Nigel

That makes sense, but why can't they just stick to one. The stock collet for the Switch is 3mm, and it is difficult getting a larger collet that will work with the Switch and the spinner assembly. I bought some Hyperion ones fit, but the part that pushes down on the collet to tighten it on the shaft isn't serrated and doesn't tighten down against the serrated spinner assembly of the mini switch.

solentlife 12-05-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 933224)
That makes sense, but why can't they just stick to one. The stock collet for the Switch is 3mm, and it is difficult getting a larger collet that will work with the Switch and the spinner assembly. I bought some Hyperion ones fit, but the part that pushes down on the collet to tighten it on the shaft isn't serrated and doesn't tighten down against the serrated spinner assembly of the mini switch.

Any chance of a photo ? You've lost me with this one now ...

I can say that with standard tapered collets - often you cannot fit spinners as the prop part of the shaft is shorter than required to get spinner back-plate + prop + washer in place for nut.

Here's a solution to a 3.17mm shaft and prop needing to add a spinner ... nice alloy job with centre screw etc.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...haft_1set.html

Nigel

thepiper92 12-05-2013 08:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 933227)
Any chance of a photo ? You've lost me with this one now ...

I can say that with standard tapered collets - often you cannot fit spinners as the prop part of the shaft is shorter than required to get spinner back-plate + prop + washer in place for nut.

Here's a solution to a 3.17mm shaft and prop needing to add a spinner ... nice alloy job with centre screw etc.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...haft_1set.html

Nigel

Thanks for the link, I like the looks of that more than the plastic. I used my laptop for taking the pic hope it's okay.

solentlife 12-06-2013 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 933229)
Thanks for the link, I like the looks of that more than the plastic. I used my laptop for taking the pic hope it's okay.

Many collet thrust washers which also compress the adaptor are not serrated. Also there is often a step in the shaft part that stops props / spinner backplates from sliding all way back ... so you ream out the spinner plate or prop to allow this step to slot in ...

Note I say REAM out ... do not drill.

Nigel

thepiper92 12-06-2013 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 933273)
Many collet thrust washers which also compress the adaptor are not serrated. Also there is often a step in the shaft part that stops props / spinner backplates from sliding all way back ... so you ream out the spinner plate or prop to allow this step to slot in ...

Note I say REAM out ... do not drill.

Nigel

Everything was fitting well. just when I tightened down with the non-serrated thrust washer, collet and motor shaft itself began to turn with the nut I was tightening, while I was holding the the spinner backplate and prop. With the serrated collet thrust washer, it grips the back plate and I can tighten it down better. For all I know it was tight enough with the non-serrated one, but that something I'd rather not risk.

solentlife 12-06-2013 09:47 PM

NOW we are getting somewhere .. NOW I understand ...

OK - this is not an uncommon thing to happen. It's because the collet is not gripping the shaft hard enough for you to tighten down the nut.

DO NOT fly with it like that ...

I have 2 ways to cure this ...

a) BEFORE putting on prop / spinner .... you tap the collet ring down so that it tightens the adaptor on to the shaft ... THEN put on prop / spinner etc. ...

if that doesn't work .... then you can try :

b) Circle of thin carbo paper - the black type that you 'sand' metal with ... place over shaft and up against the collet ... then spinner / prop. The carborundum gives a bit of 'bite' to the collet.

I do have a way that works whatever but it is messy and marks the collet ... bent nose needle pliers inserted in behind and grip the collet enough to get nut and prop seated enough to hold while tightening the final bit. But it messes up the collet ...

Someone will likely tell you to roughen or sand the shaft ... yeh well Ok it may work - but it is definitely NOT engineering style .. as the collet system relies on full 100% dry contact ..

Nigel

thepiper92 12-07-2013 03:12 AM

Actually it couldn't have been slipping on the motor, as I was not holding the motor, but the spinner backplate and prop. With the switch I can't hold the motor. The collet thrust washer must have been slipping on the backplate, and at a certain point I couldn't tighten anymore before the slipping occurred. If I were able to secure the motor in place I would have been able to tighten more, or at least until when I would find out that the collet would be slipping. Clearly the hyperion collet was designed for a motor that mounts on the frony of the mount. I ordered that spinner you suggested though, definitely will improve the look of the plane. I also received a turnigy 2836 motor 1200kv. Should kick up the rpms a bit and with a larger can, there shouldn't be a heat issue I'm hoping. I also dialed in dual rates so I can test out how the plane handles being tossed around. The full sized switch was reviewed as being decent at doing acrobatics and I want to see this one doing some as well.

hayofstacks 12-07-2013 03:49 AM

the compression of the prop is what tightens the collet to the shaft. its spinning because one of the two surfaces isn't gripping against the propeller

thepiper92 12-07-2013 04:16 AM

I
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hayofstacks (Post 933351)
the compression of the prop is what tightens the collet to the shaft. its spinning because one of the two surfaces isn't gripping against the propeller

Yep. With the mini switch a backplate goes over the colet thrust washer, then the prop, and this requires you to hold onto the backplate to tighten. The backplate as a serrated area and thus requires the collet thrust washer to be serrated as well

hayofstacks 12-07-2013 04:22 AM

I generally only hold onto the prop and tighten the front part down. I find it generally starts to bite regardless. I've even does this with regular flat washers to space out the hub

thepiper92 12-07-2013 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayofstacks (Post 933354)
I generally only hold onto the prop and tighten the front part down. I find it generally starts to bite regardless. I've even does this with regular flat washers to space out the hub

It's probably the material of the backplate, likely not enough friction between the thrust washer without it being serrated. Also there is less flat surface contact because the backplate is serrated

solentlife 12-07-2013 06:18 AM

Some collets have unclean threads and I have improved matters by running a die down the threads to clean them up.
If you don't have a die to fit - then run the nut up and down the thread repeatedly until you can do it with just fingers ... there's often a spot that has a burr or tight thread that just catches ...

This actually is found with many items we use in models ... helicopter feathering shafts have terrible threads inside for example ...

A set of taps and dies is a good tool to have to clean up and also make your own gear .. I have both Metric and BSW ...

Nigel

thepiper92 12-07-2013 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 933363)
Some collets have unclean threads and I have improved matters by running a die down the threads to clean them up.
If you don't have a die to fit - then run the nut up and down the thread repeatedly until you can do it with just fingers ... there's often a spot that has a burr or tight thread that just catches ...

This actually is found with many items we use in models ... helicopter feathering shafts have terrible threads inside for example ...

A set of taps and dies is a good tool to have to clean up and also make your own gear .. I have both Metric and BSW ...

Nigel

That is a good idea, do they cost much? I just changed over the motor to the Turnigy 2836. Luckily it still balances well for a bit of a heavier motor than the 2830. The collet that came with it didn't much much of a serrated design on the thrust washer. Until the typical serrated design, it has a light parallel line pattern, and sure enough it didn't tighten down, but then suddenly it gripped somehow and I managed to get to tight. The collet leaves just enough room for the whole assembly to go on with the nut close to the end of the collet.

solentlife 12-07-2013 08:25 AM

Most adaptors do not have enough length to have spinner backplates as well ... something I cannot understand why they don't just add a couple of mm's and then no problem.

Nigel

thepiper92 12-07-2013 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 933373)
Most adaptors do not have enough length to have spinner backplates as well ... something I cannot understand why they don't just add a couple of mm's and then no problem.

Nigel

Yah I noticed that. That is why I bought the Hyperion ones. They were called 'XL'...and when I got them, all XL meant was that extra 3mm or so. This collet with the motor works tho, I shouldn't have to worry that the nut is near the edge should I?


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