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-   RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros (http://www.Wattflyer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=68)
-   -   A favour from a DX18 user in the US? (http://www.Wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72759)

JetPlaneFlyer 12-09-2013 04:51 PM

A favour from a DX18 user in the US?
 
You may or may not know that Spektrum along with most other mainstream brands of Tx come region specific to suit local legislation on signal strength. The US has the highest power signal, Europe is significantly lower. On Tx's retailed in Europe there is no option in the firmware to switch to high power US region.

The firmware updates are coded to each transmitter so it's not straightforward to flash a US firmware to a EU Tx. It has to go to Horizon in the US and they need to see that you are living in the US before they will do it. What i was curious about is if i could have a look inside the firmware and switch on the US region option. Just maybe it might be possible to do a file comparison of the EU vs. US firmware and do a hack.

To do this I'd need a copy of the latest (v104d) .sax file for the DX18 from a US region radio and do a file comparison to my own EU firmware to see where the differences are. Most likely I'll find it cant be done due to encryption making the file impossible to read, but i'd like to have a go anyway.

So any US DX18 users care to send me a v104d .sax file? (pm me if so)

thanks

fhhuber 12-09-2013 05:28 PM

The RF strength is limited in EU due to LAWS of most of the countries in the EU.

I'm going to recommend that NO ONE aid in this attempt to violate the radio transmission laws applicable to RC.

BroncoSquid 12-09-2013 05:45 PM

True, but he is the one assuming the risk, and he is going to get that file somewhere.

All in all, I hope JPF continues to post the results of his endeavour.

JetPlaneFlyer 12-09-2013 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhhuber (Post 933713)
The RF strength is limited in EU due to LAWS of most of the countries in the EU.

I'm going to recommend that NO ONE aid in this attempt to violate the radio transmission laws applicable to RC.


The laws are in relation to health hazard to the user (me) associated with RF output. If I choose to take the risk of exposing myself to the same RF output as every user in the US (including you) then that's a risk I'm happy with. Yes it may be technically illegal here in the EU but there again, so is selling bananas without the correct curvature:rolleyes: There is absolutely no chance of being 'caught' (if that's the right word) anyway.

On some other brands US region is selectable right there in programming.

dahawk 12-09-2013 06:27 PM

Is the DX9 basically the same?

pizzano 12-09-2013 06:30 PM

Here's my take on this one:

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/...ak-No-Evil.jpg

JetPlaneFlyer 12-09-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahawk (Post 933718)
Is the DX9 basically the same?

Unfortunately no. There will be many differences in the coding which would make file comparison impossible. But thanks for the thought.

JetPlaneFlyer 12-09-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizzano (Post 933719)
Here's my take on this one:

Only if you see my intent as 'evil'.. that's up to your judgement;)

dahawk 12-09-2013 06:33 PM

pizzano,

LMAO !

Jet,

I'll check here with some of my buds who have the 18. I don't see anything sinister in this.

-Hawk

pizzano 12-09-2013 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer (Post 933721)
Only if you see my intent as 'evil'.. that's up to your judgement;)

Doesn't just imply evil....lol......also means "I see nothing, I hear nothing, I say nothing.......geez........anal crowd...:D

solentlife 12-09-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer (Post 933721)
Only if you see my intent as 'evil'.. that's up to your judgement;)

JPF ... I would suggest you invite it as a private matter ...

I run various groups / forums online and one in particular received a Notice of Shut Down because of file swapping ... seriously this was not some huge Microsoft / IBM matter ... it was a minor matter but it flagged by bots and I had to spend hours sorting the forum ... so that we could continue on.

Companies like Spektrum .. as with Nokia ... etc. would I assume are extremely protective of the FW .. and you've asked on a Forum that I'm sure has Spekie people ... as has RCGroups .. etc.

EU laws are strange as you know .. you can copy a CD / DVD as long as you have the original ... etc but woe-betide having a copy that you cannot prove is from your original at home !

Just a friendly nudge ... we all value WF...

Nigel

JetPlaneFlyer 12-09-2013 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizzano (Post 933723)
Doesn't just imply evil....lol......also means "I see nothing, I hear nothing, I say nothing.......geez........anal crowd...:D

Sorry, I see where your coming from now!

Appologies for being so defensive. I didnt really expect the initial response in the thread which obviously has made me a bit paranoid..

JetPlaneFlyer 12-09-2013 06:51 PM

Nigel, the files are not coppyright. It's freeware available to any Spektrum DX18 owner, and I already have an EU copy.

Buy yeah I was not expecting anyone to post it here, just drop me a pm and we could take it from there.

If not no big deal, it was really just curiosity on my part.

solentlife 12-09-2013 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer (Post 933735)
Nigel, the files are not coppyright. It's freeware available to any Spektrum DX18 owner, and I already have an EU copy.

Buy yeah I was not expecting anyone to post it here, just drop me a pm and we could take it from there.

If not no big deal, it was really just curiosity on my part.

mmmm EU copy ...

This reminds me of the still raging argument about Microsoft and US rules not applicable in EU.

MS says you cannot sell on your S/W and licence ... but EU says you can ...

EU says you can own literally anything - but use of breaks the law ...

Fair do's ... I hope you get a copy actually ... I'm all for more open on all ...

Nigel

pizzano 12-09-2013 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer (Post 933733)
Sorry, I see where your coming from now!

Appologies for being so defensive. I didnt really expect the initial response in the thread which obviously has made me a bit paranoid..

It's all good JP.......sounds very interesting!

JetPlaneFlyer 12-09-2013 09:11 PM

Feedback from elsewhere indicates that what I'm proposing wont work because apparently the RF module that controls signal power has stand alone firmware than can only be changed by Horizon, and only Horizon in the US will flash to the US firmware.

I did get sent a .sax file and on initial inspection it appears the encryption i was warned about has garbled the file up such that any comparison of differences is impossible.

So it seems that those who were concerned that I'd cause some sort on international RC catastrophe by tweaking my Tx firmware can sleep soundly tonight;-)

solentlife 12-09-2013 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer (Post 933754)
Feedback from elsewhere indicates that what I'm proposing wont work because apparently the RF module that controls signal power has stand alone firmware than can only be changed by Horizon, and only Horizon in the US will flash to the US firmware.

I did get sent a .sax file and on initial inspection it appears the encryption i was warned about has garbled the file up such that any comparison of differences is impossible.

So it seems that those who were concerned that I'd cause some sort on international RC catastrophe by tweaking my Tx firmware can sleep soundly tonight;-)

I would have been very surprised if you could have 'investigated' so easily !!

Ex R&D Boss of Nokia is a pal of mine and I know from Steve that many had tried and are still trying to crack his FW !! None ever succeeded ...

Nigel

JetPlaneFlyer 12-09-2013 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 933758)
Ex R&D Boss of Nokia is a pal of mine and I know from Steve that many had tried and are still trying to crack his FW !! None ever succeeded ...

Nigel

My ambition was a lot more limited than 'cracking' the firmware. All that i hoped to do was compare two firmwares, the UE and the US and use a file comparator to highlight the differences.

I've used this method before on firmware for PC components with success. It generally works well if there are only small differences between the two files. You don't need to 'crack' the workings of the code, just copy and paste the changed piece of code from one file to the other.

But you are right in that Spektrum seem to have found away to make simple comparison impossible.

solentlife 12-09-2013 09:46 PM

Trouble is JPF ... it may be looked upon as 'cracking' as they have submitted for CE certification etc. and any possibility to change could be a violation of that ...

I'm only saying .. I'm no expert in this, just going on what guys like Steve have told me in the past.

Nigel

CHELLIE 12-10-2013 12:19 AM

I Thought this was Interesting Reading :D

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/12x.htm

kyleservicetech 12-10-2013 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHELLIE (Post 933768)
I Thought this was Interesting Reading :D

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/12x.htm

H'mmm
Just what we need, some guys splattering all over the 2.4 Ghz frequencies with illegal signal boosters. Reminds me of what happened to the CB frequencies long ago.

At least in the USA, our 2.4 Ghz radios have a proven range of over 2 miles, which should cover most flying we do.

Also note the comments at the very end of this web site:

FINALLY - HOW NOT TO DO IT
And to be cautious watching U-tube experts. This will work. But for how long? Till he forgets to plug in the booster? Or till it burns out with no attenuator? Or until the cheap voltage regulator fails? Or a TX cable comes loose or is snagged?

No attenuator, maybe its not required here, but I don't think he even considers it, wires and antennas sticking out all over and looking untidy, separate switches or BEC's to power the booster, so you can forget to power it up and crash, or damage your RC transmitter etc.

The booster MUST be on when you power the transmitter. And the whole thing looking like scrap-yard challenge and just waiting to all get caught up and cables ripped out or damaged.

No doubt it works, at the moment, but in addition those particular boosters are not very reliable - many reports of failures on the web. Normally caused by too high input level - no attenuator...



I am not picking on this guy, in particular as I don't know him, but this is common on many such 'guides' on how its done. There are many similar sites and u-tube guides. It may well work, but neat, well engineered and reliable it will not be. So that heavy large scale plane could go anywhere!

Just an example of what I was trying to avoid.


CHELLIE 12-10-2013 05:22 AM

HK has some neet stuff for 2.4 , I thought this was neet.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ter_600mW.html

CHELLIE 12-10-2013 05:31 AM

free 2.4 transmitter booster :)


kyleservicetech 12-10-2013 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHELLIE (Post 933783)
free 2.4 transmitter booster :)


LOL
Hopefully that guy doesn't drink the beer before flying his models!

Now he has a transmitter with a three mile range rather than two miles. :D :D
(Doubling the power output does not double the line of sight range)

I suppose someone is going to outfit one of their transmitters with a Yagi antenna for real range boosting. Problem is, with this sort of antenna, they become really directional. Point it the wrong way, and you crash.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy...-Yagi-Antenna/
http://www.ab9il.net/wlan-projects/wifi6.html

And, suspect you also have to worry about matching impedances between the antenna and the transmitter output circuitry, so as not to blow up your transmitter's RF section.

JetPlaneFlyer 12-10-2013 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHELLIE (Post 933783)
free 2.4 transmitter booster :)



Problem solved!.. no need for any tricky and dubiously legal firmware hacks.

Worst that can happen is it doesnt work but even so you still get to drink the beer, so who cares:D


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