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-   -   What kind of range should I get from a park flyer reciever (http://www.Wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73611)

abborgogna 04-21-2014 11:34 PM

What kind of range should I get from a park flyer reciever
 
A few day back I got an Airtronics Park Flyer receiver, you know the kind with only one antenna. I asked my boss what he thought was a safe range for this kind of receiver and he told me about a 1000 ft. I installed it in an old R/C plane I have and took it out for some testing this morning. All went well it had enough range to fly my plane like I did with the previous full range receiver. Anyway does a 1000 ft. sound right, that's over three football fields in range which would put the plane way out of my comfort zone for the kind of flying I like to do.
Andy

fhhuber 04-22-2014 12:07 AM

If the RX is appropriate for the model you put it in, you will get good control further than you can see which way the airplane is pointed.

That is more than enough.

kyleservicetech 04-22-2014 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abborgogna (Post 946203)
A few day back I got an Airtronics Park Flyer receiver, you know the kind with only one antenna. I asked my boss what he thought was a safe range for this kind of receiver and he told me about a 1000 ft. I installed it in an old R/C plane I have and took it out for some testing this morning. All went well it had enough range to fly my plane like I did with the previous full range receiver. Anyway does a 1000 ft. sound right, that's over three football fields in range which would put the plane way out of my comfort zone for the kind of flying I like to do.
Andy

The only problem with one antenna, those 2.4 Ghz signals are line of sight. So, if something is in between your transmitter and one "legged" receiver antenna, like your motor, you might have a severe dip in signal strength.

When flying within the range of your receiver, shouldn't be a problem. I did do some testing with one of my Spektrum back yard receivers a while back. That thing had solid reception of over two blocks. (Your results can vary)

CHELLIE 04-22-2014 01:51 AM

use a Full Range receiver, it may save your plane, the range on the park flier will depend alot on where your flying at, if there are trees, water, power lines and metal fences around, that may reduce the range, 2.4 will mask, so dont let anything get between your transmitter and your plane, 2.4 is a line of sight signal and can be blocked. causing a brown out condition.

http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...he-discussion/

fhhuber 04-22-2014 02:28 AM

Brown out has nothing to do with range...

solentlife 04-22-2014 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhhuber (Post 946225)
Brown out has nothing to do with range...

You know what she means .... ;)

I use single antenna Rx's of FrSky - factory specs say 1km and I can vouch for it ... they are out of sight range. Most other brands quote 300m or thereabouts. In practice it should be far greater ...

Chellie is correct though - avoid obstacles or anything in between Tx and Rx ... and that applies to full range / dual antenna as well.

Nigel

abborgogna 04-22-2014 08:11 PM

The 1K meters is similar to the 1K yards that I was quoted. I also agree with keeping the area between the plane and the transmitter clear of obstacles both for signal integrity keeping visual on the plane. I will continue for a bit longer using the new receiver in the old plane until I gain enough confidence in it. For now it looks good to me.
Andy

Turner 04-22-2014 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abborgogna (Post 946314)
...I also agree with keeping the area between the plane and the transmitter clear of obstacles both for signal integrity keeping visual on the plane…

This includes large LiPo packs and motors which can block the signal and this is the problem with running single antenna park rx's in larger planes.

solentlife 04-22-2014 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turner (Post 946321)
This includes large LiPo packs and motors which can block the signal and this is the problem with running single antenna park rx's in larger planes.

To be honest - that applies to all models whatever they are .. air, ground or water .. small, medium and large.

But with care - there is a definite place for the small Park Rx's.

And don't forget that you can always fit extended antenna ... it's only the UNCOVERED TIP that is really picking up the signal ... if it's not a plug antenna like FrSky - there's nothing to stop unsoldering the short and replacing with a longer antenna .. then you can pass the TIP out through a small hole in fuselage bottom / side to get better reception.

Nigel

Turner 04-22-2014 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 946322)
To be honest - that applies to all models whatever they are .. air, ground or water .. small, medium and large...

Well, small air craft like most of the ultra micro types are not so effected. The battery and or motor profile are simple not able to block the antenna fully as a much larger pack and motor definitely can. Of course that's why they make the single antenna Rx's and when used appropriately there is generally not a problem. People run into problems when they insist that their park flyer Rx should work just fine in a 70 inch plane and they may get away with it for some time but it eventually bites them and of course they blame the Tx.

solentlife 04-23-2014 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turner (Post 946326)
Well, small air craft like most of the ultra micro types are not so effected. The battery and or motor profile are simple not able to block the antenna fully as a much larger pack and motor definitely can. Of course that's why they make the single antenna Rx's and when used appropriately there is generally not a problem. People run into problems when they insist that their park flyer Rx should work just fine in a 70 inch plane and they may get away with it for some time but it eventually bites them and of course they blame the Tx.

I don't disagree generally with what you say .. I would not use a single antenna Park Fly Rx in my 61 powered biplane ... but I do use in my Badius Pattern ship ... and various other small to medium models.

So maybe I'm one you would frown upon ... ;)

But I am careful about position and orientation of my antenna in the model.
I try to keep it as low as possible in the model. We are standing on the ground BELOW the model so makes sense too have antenna low in the model.
I try to have a small hole in model that antenna tip can protrude from ti be clear of all structure as far as possible.

If all fails and I cannot be comfortable about it - I either swap to a dual antenna Rx or extend the single as posted in a prev. post.

Nigel

A.T. 05-03-2014 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abborgogna (Post 946203)
A few day back I got an Airtronics Park Flyer receiver, you know the kind with only one antenna.
I asked my boss what he thought was a safe range for this kind of receiver and he told me about a 1000 ft.
I installed it in an old R/C plane I have and took it out for some testing this morning.
All went well it had enough range to fly my plane like I did with the previous full range receiver.
Anyway does a 1000 ft. sound right, that's over three football fields in range which would put the plane way out of my comfort zone for the kind of flying I like to do.
Andy

Please refer to:
. Receiver - Operating Range - Full vs ParkFlyer vs Backyard.
quote
"As previous posts advise, but also one must read the specifications for each receiver as some very good expensive receivers e.g. Hyperion (Berg) DSP 6CH RX has a stated range only 600+ meters whereas the Hitec Neutron 6S has full out of sight range. A large number of RX are designed to get as many as possible into crowded areas such as those intended for use for use in Indoor flight, Park Flyers and RC Cars and may not be distinguished by frequency which differs for each country. (e.g. 40 MHz for ground only use in UK is mainly Aircraft only in NZ, 72 Mhz is aircraft only in USA but is used for ground or air in most other countries). Be also wary of Transmitters sold with EP Heli and Park Flyer packages as they seldom pass the 300M range.
The common standard for a full range receiver is 1500 m+ (1 mile).
This is also assumed to mean as far as we can see the model without using optic aids such as telescopes, binoculars and such.
The common standard for Park flyers generally 100< 600m.
(most RTF packages of small EP Planes are limited to 300m to qualify as park flyers in all the many countries they are sold in)
The common standard for Backyard flyers is 5<100m.

Range testing is described in the manual of most TX but reference can also be made to :
Range Test - Futaba answers.
Range Test - JR answers. (If defaults to Horizon, check article ID 1079
Range test - TX with Rubber Duck Antenna
Range Check and Resolution of Range Failure
Range Problem
Range Problem - Transmitter Antenna cleaning
See also sub Section "Receiver - FAQ, guides and aids to best reception " under
"Radio Systems, Accessories, Alterations and FAQ" at:
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

Later: Further questions answered post #10 below

Q. "Who did the testing? You can't compare different manufacturer's claims like this."

Those were from the manufacturer's specifications which are considered a minimum otherwise they would be facing liltgation from disgruntled owners. The common standard for a full range receiver is 1500 m+ (1 mile ), 600m is considered a good park flier system with 300m for very small models, a common .40 size model flys and is visible well beyond 600m as do and are many gliders.
For independant tests, refer to:
Comparison charts of RX with FAQ and photos "Graupner" being rebadged "JR" receivers
FWIW, have owned several of the ESKY EK2-0420A 72mhz rc system which was supereseded by the EK2-0404 a long time ago, and rated to 300m only. Not recommended for use with anything more valuable than the small helicopter packages that that TX is included with.

Regards
Alan T.

thepiper92 05-03-2014 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 946322)
To be honest - that applies to all models whatever they are .. air, ground or water .. small, medium and large.

But with care - there is a definite place for the small Park Rx's.

And don't forget that you can always fit extended antenna ... it's only the UNCOVERED TIP that is really picking up the signal ... if it's not a plug antenna like FrSky - there's nothing to stop unsoldering the short and replacing with a longer antenna .. then you can pass the TIP out through a small hole in fuselage bottom / side to get better reception.

Nigel

How much is actually gained by the antenna sticking out of the bottom of the plane. In my recent build of the p47, I have set it up with a frsky receiver and a long range antenna on the radio, which goes into a flat rectangle rather than a typical stick antenna. I've been wondering where to put the two antennas on the receiver. I'm worried now after losing control of my UMX SBach resulting in a propelled nose dive that all I could do was watch it happen.

solentlife 05-04-2014 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 947216)
How much is actually gained by the antenna sticking out of the bottom of the plane.

Is the model flying higher or lower than you ?

Quote:

In my recent build of the p47, I have set it up with a frsky receiver and a long range antenna on the radio, which goes into a flat rectangle rather than a typical stick antenna.
Dunno that one.

Quote:

I've been wondering where to put the two antennas on the receiver. I'm worried now after losing control of my UMX SBach resulting in a propelled nose dive that all I could do was watch it happen.
I have simple solution in all my models ... I run one along side and the last inch is then taped vertically ... the other is run along the side and taped horizontal ...
But if the models suitable - I like having at least one poked out through a small hole in fuselage to ''wave' in the breeze... clear of all. I tape the bit inside so that if doesn't pull on the Rx connection.

Nigel

thepiper92 05-04-2014 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 947266)
Is the model flying higher or lower than you ?



Dunno that one.



I have simple solution in all my models ... I run one along side and the last inch is then taped vertically ... the other is run along the side and taped horizontal ...
But if the models suitable - I like having at least one poked out through a small hole in fuselage to ''wave' in the breeze... clear of all. I tape the bit inside so that if doesn't pull on the Rx connection.

Nigel

The model will be above me. I am using this antenna, https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...Search=Antenna Haven't used it yet. Reviews say to point radiative side to model. Don't understand the meaning. I won't be flying long range, but figure it's signal should be better overall. So far I have one antenna running toward the back of the plane and one running towards the front. Not much room for taping.

solentlife 05-04-2014 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 947268)
The model will be above me. I am using this antenna, https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...Search=Antenna Haven't used it yet. Reviews say to point radiative side to model. Don't understand the meaning. I won't be flying long range, but figure it's signal should be better overall. So far I have one antenna running toward the back of the plane and one running towards the front. Not much room for taping.

Can't see point of the flat antenna to be honest if you are only flying LoS .. and not long range.

Rx antenna's - you do best you can and that's it.

Go Fly .. stop worrying ...

Nigel

thepiper92 05-04-2014 09:00 AM

Haha trying to, just this will be my first build to take on its maiden. You don't think the antenna would improve los signal quality. I can change it no problem, or leave it on, don't think it will make things worse either.

fhhuber 05-04-2014 09:08 AM

Antennae orientations vary as the aircraft turns, banks, rolls, loops... and thus you will never find one single best orientation or location for all possible attitudes.

Wherever you put a single antenna, and whatever angle it is mounted, its max range to pull in enough signal from the TX will depend on orientation of the model with respect to the TX's location.

That is one reason Spektrum chose the multiple "Satellite" RX system for RXs intended for larger models... with more satellites as the models get bigger.

Similarly different positions on the plane will have different parts between any RX antenna and the TX... and again the answer by Spektrum, for preventing totally shadowing the RX system from receiving a signal is multiple RXs with the antennae spread out (hopefully if installed properly) To keep that big chunk of material (engine or battery) from being able to shadow ALL antennae at once.

Smaller planes, but the actual antennae being the same size, means the biggest potential source of shadowing is less likely to shadow the whole antenna AND the plane is less likely to be flown at a distance where signal strength (even shadowed) would cause a problem for the RX to be able to maintain contact.

If you are using an RX appropriate for the model... and have it installed reasonably compliant to the radio system maker's instructions, you should easily have more range than needed to fly by traditional "line of sight."

Often you can get away with a "Park Flyer" RX in a ".60 to .90" size plane and still have "speck it out" (plane appears to be a tiny dot in the sky) range and still have control. You just shouldn't really count on it.

*************

No real experience with the flat printed square of windy/squiggly lines antennae But I have read that they are amazingly effective.

solentlife 05-04-2014 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 947273)
Haha trying to, just this will be my first build to take on its maiden. You don't think the antenna would improve los signal quality. I can change it no problem, or leave it on, don't think it will make things worse either.

Signal quality ? Digital is on or off ... not like old FM days ..

Of course you may get stronger signal .. but if you are LoS flying - why ?

How many others do you know flying LoS are using what is effect a signal booster ? Only guys I know with signal boosted antenna are the FPV long range guys.

I honestly believe a lot of paranoia is created by some posts horror stories or "technical advice"...

If you are using the 9xr - you bought ... then it's good for OUT OF SIGHT range with standard out of box gear.

Nigel

thepiper92 05-04-2014 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhhuber (Post 947276)
Antennae orientations vary as the aircraft turns, banks, rolls, loops... and thus you will never find one single best orientation or location for all possible attitudes.

Wherever you put a single antenna, and whatever angle it is mounted, its max range to pull in enough signal from the TX will depend on orientation of the model with respect to the TX's location.

That is one reason Spektrum chose the multiple "Satellite" RX system for RXs intended for larger models... with more satellites as the models get bigger.

Similarly different positions on the plane will have different parts between any RX antenna and the TX... and again the answer by Spektrum, for preventing totally shadowing the RX system from receiving a signal is multiple RXs with the antennae spread out (hopefully if installed properly) To keep that big chunk of material (engine or battery) from being able to shadow ALL antennae at once.

Smaller planes, but the actual antennae being the same size, means the biggest potential source of shadowing is less likely to shadow the whole antenna AND the plane is less likely to be flown at a distance where signal strength (even shadowed) would cause a problem for the RX to be able to maintain contact.

If you are using an RX appropriate for the model... and have it installed reasonably compliant to the radio system maker's instructions, you should easily have more range than needed to fly by traditional "line of sight."

Often you can get away with a "Park Flyer" RX in a ".60 to .90" size plane and still have "speck it out" (plane appears to be a tiny dot in the sky) range and still have control. You just shouldn't really count on it.

*************

No real experience with the flat printed square of windy/squiggly lines antennae But I have read that they are amazingly effective.

The receiver is in a good place, with the motor up front with battery, esc slightly bank and receiver right below canopy. The two servos are behind the receiver, but don't block much. Essentially the only way the signal could be blocked I guess is the plane the same level as me coming at me. As for satellite receivers, if I used them there would be little spacing do to lack of space other than near battery, where it is now or somehow secure one in tail area.

thepiper92 05-04-2014 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 947277)
Signal quality ? Digital is on or off ... not like old FM days ..

Of course you may get stronger signal .. but if you are LoS flying - why ?

How many others do you know flying LoS are using what is effect a signal booster ? Only guys I know with signal boosted antenna are the FPV long range guys.

I honestly believe a lot of paranoia is created by some posts horror stories or "technical advice"...

If you are using the 9xr - you bought ... then it's good for OUT OF SIGHT range with standard out of box gear.

Nigel

Some of my worries are wifi signals, of which I really don't know if they can block transmission. There are a few street poles, not exactly an area filled with buildings. I am also looking at another flying area, less cars and homes aren't quite as close. Guess I do have some paranoia about it after watching my UMX just dive to close to its doom. Then again, maybe that was from the orange module.

solentlife 05-04-2014 10:33 AM

I noted in the house that WiFi was affected by my radio ... not other way round. But it was only in a certain part of the house - so must have been a combination of things.

If I had my notebook on dining table and my radio nearby ... if switched on radio - my WiFi connection was lost on the notebook.
The WiFi was about 12metres away in next room ... It was a Sweex standard single antenna router.
I swapped to a dual antenna boosted router so I can work on the yacht at bottom of garden ... now it's fine. My radios are not affected even if I put next to the router .. even the 3x power boosted router.

Nigel

thepiper92 05-04-2014 05:42 PM

I noticed the wifi loss too. Guess I shouldn't worry too much then.

kyleservicetech 05-05-2014 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solentlife (Post 947285)
I noted in the house that WiFi was affected by my radio ... not other way round. But it was only in a certain part of the house - so must have been a combination of things.

If I had my notebook on dining table and my radio nearby ... if switched on radio - my WiFi connection was lost on the notebook.
The WiFi was about 12metres away in next room ... It was a Sweex standard single antenna router.
I swapped to a dual antenna boosted router so I can work on the yacht at bottom of garden ... now it's fine. My radios are not affected even if I put next to the router .. even the 3x power boosted router.

Nigel

Does anyone know what the range is on those WiFi systems??? I picked up a spectrum analyzer awhile back, took it out to our club field and checked for stray 2.4 Ghz signals. There were none, absolutely nothing. Our field is located about 1/4 mile from a big factory warehouse, and about 1/2 mile from nearest homes.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72719

From what's been posted in a lot of places, our full range 2.4 Ghz radios have a range of at least two miles in Line Of Sight mode.

At any rate, the various 2.4 Ghz mfg's have a lot of sophisticated technology in their equipment to deal with this sort of interference.

kyleservicetech 05-05-2014 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhhuber (Post 947276)
Antennae orientations vary as the aircraft turns, banks, rolls, loops... and thus you will never find one single best orientation or location for all possible attitudes.

Wherever you put a single antenna, and whatever angle it is mounted, its max range to pull in enough signal from the TX will depend on orientation of the model with respect to the TX's location.

That is one reason Spektrum chose the multiple "Satellite" RX system for RXs intended for larger models... with more satellites as the models get bigger.

Similarly different positions on the plane will have different parts between any RX antenna and the TX... and again the answer by Spektrum, for preventing totally shadowing the RX system from receiving a signal is multiple RXs with the antennae spread out (hopefully if installed properly) To keep that big chunk of material (engine or battery) from being able to shadow ALL antennae at once.

Smaller planes, but the actual antennae being the same size, means the biggest potential source of shadowing is less likely to shadow the whole antenna AND the plane is less likely to be flown at a distance where signal strength (even shadowed) would cause a problem for the RX to be able to maintain contact.

If you are using an RX appropriate for the model... and have it installed reasonably compliant to the radio system maker's instructions, you should easily have more range than needed to fly by traditional "line of sight."

Often you can get away with a "Park Flyer" RX in a ".60 to .90" size plane and still have "speck it out" (plane appears to be a tiny dot in the sky) range and still have control. You just shouldn't really count on it.

*************

No real experience with the flat printed square of windy/squiggly lines antennae But I have read that they are amazingly effective.

There is a lot of good info here. As for the "Park Flyer" receivers, Spektrum does have a decent full range 4 channel Rx for under $30. Hopefully no one is using a "Park Flyer" receiver in a big high powered model airplane.

Question:
Would those "Flat" square transmitter antennas be more directional than the simple "whip" antenna?


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