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-   -   Thepiper's 60" Hawker Hurricane build (http://www.Wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73717)

thepiper92 05-09-2014 06:58 PM

Thepiper's 60" Hawker Hurricane build
 
My next build will be a 60" wingspan Hawker Hurricane from Manzano laser. I have not received the kit, but have just received the motor, servos, retracts and the 3s 3300 batteries for the plane from HK, in only 3 days, really impressed by the shipping. In this package are 4 S3101S servos, one G15 motor, 2 3s 3300 batteries and a set of 33x35mm servoless retracts. The plane will arrive in about two weeks. I am thinking about a night scheme for this plane, due to the fact that I like the looks of the scheme, and my covering abilities are not quite great as of yet.

Forge 05-11-2014 03:56 PM

Piper,

Good luck. I've looked at the kit a bunch of times, and thought about building it too. I will be watching. It looks like a great, lightweight flyer for its size.


Forge

thepiper92 05-11-2014 05:46 PM

It seems like a seldom built kit. I looked over the build thread, and it uses a center outline it seems, so you achieve the fuse shape ( top and bottom) immediately and just add formers on top of this. The wing design looks great, including retract area.

thepiper92 05-18-2014 08:42 AM

So I have the kit now, and I have begun building, starting with the horizontal stab. Using what I have, I am making the 1/4x1/8 pieces from 1/8 stringers. This won't hurt any, in fact the glue will likely increase rigidity, but it does take time to make the parts. I must say, the plane already looks big just by looking at the size of the stab.

The kit itself came neatly packaged, with the plans, instructions (I won't really need them, but figured they wouldn't hurt for some areas of the build, so I purchased them as well), the wood, except stringers and such, and a canopy. The plans, thankfully, are not rolled, but folded, and on two separate sheets, meaning my small working area will not be filled by a cumbersome sheet. Actually the two sheets are even easy to work with than the one sheet from the P47, even though the plane will be much larger. At some point I will no doubt need to pick up more balsa, maybe some spruce or basswood. After the main construction is done, I will decide on whether to add sheeting to the fuselage or not, and whether I want a complete cockpit with pilot and such (I actually don't mind having a basic looking cockpit without the pilot). The theme will be the Night Reaper theme, as can be seen on the Callie Graphics site, a beautiful theme I feel, simple (good for my lack of covering skills), sleek, but it has a evil, menacing look, especially the red spinner. The real Hurricane has a wing span of 40ft exactly, which is 480 inches, and that comes to a 1/8 scale. One question I have is the color. I can get black ultracote, and just go with gloss, but the real plane is flat. Is there a paint that works well on ultracote?

thepiper92 05-19-2014 07:50 AM

Still working on the horizontal stab, a long process actually. On the P47 and the P51, it would take me an hour max to complete. For the Hurricane's stab, it is composed of the frame, the typical inner frame wood, but also 6 stringers, 3 on top, 3 on bottom, spanning along the stab (4 for the trailing edge of the stab, 2 for the leading edge of the elevator) as well has stringer pieces perpendicular to these, on top and on bottom of the inner frame pieces. It suggests basswood for two of the stringers going across the stab, but I think the wood glue will stiffen everything up nicely, especially compared to CA glue. A nice coat of wood glue really holds things strongly.

thepiper92 05-20-2014 06:36 AM

7 Attachment(s)
So the horizontal stab and elevator are finished, other than sanding to shape and covering. Unfortunately, it seems some stringers had a curve, and as a result, there is a slight dihedral to the horizontal stab. The amount of dihedral won't do anything, but when I cover I'll put some force in the opposite direction to pull the dihedral out. The outline and installation of formers of the fuse is completed on one side, minus the stringers. A very easy and accurate method for the fuse, by making a "2d" shape of the fuse and just gluing the formers on. Leaves everything even, and a faster assembly than the P47, with less headaches. The fuse and rudder will be done tomorrow, except for stringers, as I will need more, likely some stronger basswood stringers so that I will not need to add tons of sheeting, other than to the wings.

For the wings, I will need to make the wingtips with a template, of which will be made of scrap Kerdiboard, a foam board (not a cheap foam either) that was used to redo our kitchen. I may also be using this foam to make various parts in the cockpit, the exhaust, etc.

Here are some pics,

ThePiper

thepiper92 05-21-2014 08:07 PM

Bought more wood from my LHS, spruce stringers, sheeting, and other balsa wood to make the battery tray and such. The instructions suggest to use basswood for stringers. Basswood isn't available at my hobbyshop, and so I went with the spruce ones, meaning this build will be spruced up!

thepiper92 05-21-2014 10:55 PM

I'm really liking the spruce stringers, easy to work with. I may use a mix of balsa and spruce, haven't decided. The fuse requires splicing, and as such I am alternating between starting at front with a solid stringer and moving to back, splicing in a piece, then a solid stringer at the rear and a spliced piece in front. I am splicing at angles for more surface area for glue, and the little dollar store clamps hold the joint together well. Currently I am working on half the fuse, doing two stringers only, just to strengthen it up. I will add the other formers soon, and repeat the same stringers, pulling it straight. After that, the rest will just come together nicely.

The wings will be tricky, as it will be my first time curving balsa for the wing tips.

thepiper92 06-12-2014 09:48 AM

Been a while since I updated this. I have no pics yet...to lazy to take them perhaps. The fuse is finished completely, as are the wings, except the balsa sheeting and cutting off the ailerons. I have bolted the wing onto the fuse, using t-nuts and bolts from Lee Valley. The design does not use dowels on the front from what I see, but the front of the wing in the middle extends past the leading edge, and this, from what I can tell, sits in a slot within the fuse. I had to sand back this piece a tad, and I shaved away any glue in the slot. I also added a small piece of scrap balsa in the slot, as the slot extends from the bottom of the fuse to the middle of the fuse, and the part of the wing that fits into it is only about an inch tall. This scrap piece with completely eliminate any chance of the wing moving around, not that it does anyway, as it is a tight fit. Next is to add the retracts, install servos for the wings, and fuse, control rods, tail wheel assembly, magnets for the battery hatch, and install the electronics once it all comes in.

It will be sporting this motor: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=16231

Judging by amp draw from what others are saying, this thing runs well with a 13 inch prop on 4s, so as I am running 3s, I will be experimenting with 14 inch and 15 inch props. Now that I have a wattmeter, this should be an easy task.

I'll post some pics soon.

thepiper92 06-17-2014 07:11 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Some pics

Just working on the fillets, trying to figure them out. The way to do them isn't on the plans, and the instructions aren't showing how they go on exactly...even some of the pieces in the pictures seem different, guessing it was the prototype pics. Next will be hinging, retracts and installing the massive motor, which will be turning a 14 inch prop. The thread of this plane on RC Groups was a 12x6 three blade I believe, so I could use a 13x8, but as I used spruce for a lot of the build, I went with a bigger motor and bigger prop. With two 3000mah 3s packs hooked up, should get good run times, but may try with one 3000mah pack just to see how much time I get, as I may not need 6000mah in total. 6000 will add a lot of weight, although I came across that two 2200mah packs were being used. Just have to see.

RV Winkle 06-17-2014 07:46 PM

Nice looking build
Crazy small building area-I know my build area out in the garage is not much larger.

thepiper92 06-17-2014 08:16 PM

Yep it's pretty small. Luckily I can take the wing off to hinge and cover. At 60 inches, there is little room to do anything. The table is also full of wood, mainly sheeting wood to make the fillets...or failed pieces rather. The templates are odd, a cut with the main fillet template and it came out too short. Once I finish building everything I'll clear up the table so I can shape the hinge areas.

thepiper92 06-18-2014 08:02 AM

So I managed to make the fillets work, just modified the design of them a bit, and fit them in, or at least one so far. I gather they were designed for the prototype, which used fuselage formers a bit different from mine (in the pics, the formers are rounded all the way around, mine are flat 90 degrees on some. This leaves the other curved parts, which I thought were meant to give a sort of shape of what the overall fillet will be, but the pics in the instructions show none of this, so I gather these pieces were really made to remove the rounded part on some formers, by being glued to the curves and giving an angle. No matter, these parts are now what I will lay sheeting on, making completed formers, maybe with a bit of trimming, as I find the pieces to be a little too tall. So far, the fillets are indeed the most annoying part of the build, mainly because the plans show squat of how it is done...actually the plans show very little of how anything is done, other than basic layouts. The instructions are what has the template for many parts, include the pieces of the air intake, exhaust, just to name a few. I am really hoping these pieces will be of the correct size, for I have found that the fillet template are not, nor are the wing former templates, being a bit shorter than they actually are. Nothing is perfect I suppose. Tomorrow, the fillets will be more or less complete, and I will finish off the rudder (forgot a few built up pieces on one side, due to laziness actually). I will begin on the front end, hopefully mounting the motor, shape it. I am still waiting for a couple magnets, and hinges, so I cannot stick on the battery hatch, or hinge anything yet.

JetPlaneFlyer 06-18-2014 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 948742)
Unfortunately, it seems some stringers had a curve, and as a result, there is a slight dihedral to the horizontal stab.

To get any twists and warps out, hold the structure over a pan or kettle of boiling water. Hold over the steam for a while and apply a little force to bend back into shape. Then pin or weigh the part down on a flat surface and leave for a few hours. You can get pretty severe twists out of wood structures this way.

thepiper92 06-18-2014 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer (Post 950778)
Tp get any twists and warps out hold the structure over a pan or kettle of boiling water. Hold over the steam for a while and apply a little force to bend back into shape. Then pin or weigh the part down on a flat surface and leave for a few hours. You can get pretty severe twists out of wood structures this way.

The issue is that it is wood glue, wouldn't water or steam liquify the glue or wreck the bond. It is heavily build up as well. The dihedral isn't too bad anyway, you can't even see it unless you are actually looking for it.

thepiper92 06-19-2014 08:31 AM

Nose area is glued, just has to be shaped. The basic shape of the wing fillets are complete, just need to lay sheeting over to complete. I suppose I could use covering to shape it, but would be a lot of stress on a thin area.

thepiper92 06-27-2014 01:24 AM

Retracts are installed, though took some slight trimming. The fillets are complete, although deciding whether I need to add sheeting or whether the fillets are strong enough for the covering to shape the fillets. I will hinge soon, and install platforms for heavy duty horns to go through surfaces. Currently waiting for them to ship in. Servos will be installed soon as well, and control rods should be easy enough to put in. The tail wheel will be a little trick to install, probably use a simple horn and metal wiring. Covering will be monokote flat blank and the motor has been tested.

Ohm 06-27-2014 05:34 AM

Any up date pics?

thepiper92 06-27-2014 06:17 AM

I'll post some tomorrow, doesn't look much different than my most recent pics really. The front end pieces are installed, but not shaped to the large 3 inch spinner. No sheeting is on the wings, and it really needs sheeting, as the wing isn't as strong as I want it. Sheeting will be applied mainly to bottom, as there are no bottom stringers. I am adding a bit to the trailing edges, as I find the balsa quite thin, and with sanding to allow ailerons, it will be thinner yet. In between the formers I am building up with spruce in front of the trailing edges, at least where hinges will be, as well as ailerons. Due to the fact that monokote will be the covering, there can be no weak points. I am building this plane to be tough, and there can be no points that can fail. This is not to say it will be crashed, but in my view, it must be stuff. Even though there is spruce for all stringers, the frame is very light still. In fact, it was the retracts that added noticeable weight to the wings, and without them, weight was almost non-existent.

thepiper92 07-08-2014 06:05 PM

SO the front end ripped off again. Does this mean too much power. It's an 815W motor on 4s, 570 on 3s, which would give me 152W/lb if I went on the high end of what the weight of this plane will be. I stuck a watt meter on it, although I don't know how high it got before the whole front and came off with the motor and prop. I don't know what to do now, should I step down to this motor, if I can get the shaft facing the other way? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_950kv.html

It will put me down to about 120W/lb I gather, depending on AUW.

HO-229 07-08-2014 07:50 PM

If it has a plastic shrink type skin (monocote) an option is to remove it and replacing it with light weight thin balsa on the outside of the stringers and on the inside of the stringers (360 degrees).
Most likely the application of thin glass to the outside layer of thin balsa will do the trick.
Glue some balsa on the stringers and bulkhead aft of the new balsa skin to fair it in
Good luck!:)

thepiper92 07-08-2014 08:00 PM

It's actually ripping the firewall off the stringers, not breaking the stringers. The only way would be adding really long bolts going through firewall, going through a reinforced former. Even then, it would only be on bottom, so too could still break off. The stringers mount almost 360 around firewall, total of 15 stringers. Guess I have to do with 100-120w/lb rather than 160-170

HO-229 07-08-2014 08:08 PM

By adding the skin... you add significant strength and stiffness to the load path.
If torque is your culprit then the addition of a stressed skin should increase your attach point exponentially.
This is with the consideration that the motor attachment bulkhead is robust
Good luck!;)

thepiper92 07-08-2014 08:16 PM

It doesn't seem to be torque, but the thrust itself of pulling the firewall off the stringers, not snapping off, but like the stringers are the launch pad and the firewall is the rocket. I would need to increase surface of adhesion of the firewall to the rest of the plane. The stringers don't seem to be the issue, they are spruce and plenty strong, but the glue isn't enough to hold the firewall to the stringers. To work. There needs to be more glue area holding onto the firewall.

HO-229 07-08-2014 08:30 PM

An inch or two of balsa skin then glass over it, to include the engine bulkhead.;)


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