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-   -   Li-Po Batteries Error (http://www.Wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73840)

Madman1701 06-05-2014 03:15 AM

Li-Po Batteries Error
 
I bought a Flyzone Sensei and had it out to fly last week. I ended up crashing it so the flight was a bit short. I charged both my batteries when I got them and all went well. I fixed up the plane and recharged the small amount of battery I used. Today I took the plane out and used both batteries. When I came home I plugged one in to the charger and it went to conditioning mode for about 2-3 hours before going to error. I tried plugging it in to the other charger and I just keep getting error. I tried charging my other battery and it is giving me an error as well as soon as I plug it in. It's just a cheap charger that came with the plane. The error could mean anything. I just find it strange that after their first discharge they are both not charging on two separate chargers. I am calling the place I got the plane from tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone had some insight into this problem. The batteries are 3 cell 11.1V 2100mah lipo's from Flyzone. The charger is the ElectriFly 3-cell 11.1V LiPo balancing chargers. GPMM3319.

Wildflyer 06-05-2014 04:02 AM

Get a volt meter and check the voltage of your cells and the total for the battery.

The conditioning mode may have discharged the batteries to a point below the programming for the charger.

Minimum voltage for each cell should be over 3 volts, below that and you may have lost that cell.

Sometimes with a adjustable charger you might put a small (50 ma) charge into a battery and bring it back up. Problem is, at least for me, it seems that battery will not preform light it did before. I use these batteries for running LED lights.

CHELLIE 06-05-2014 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madman1701 (Post 949798)
I bought a Flyzone Sensei and had it out to fly last week. I ended up crashing it so the flight was a bit short. I charged both my batteries when I got them and all went well. I fixed up the plane and recharged the small amount of battery I used. Today I took the plane out and used both batteries. When I came home I plugged one in to the charger and it went to conditioning mode for about 2-3 hours before going to error. I tried plugging it in to the other charger and I just keep getting error. I tried charging my other battery and it is giving me an error as well as soon as I plug it in. It's just a cheap charger that came with the plane. The error could mean anything. I just find it strange that after their first discharge they are both not charging on two separate chargers. I am calling the place I got the plane from tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone had some insight into this problem. The batteries are 3 cell 11.1V 2100mah lipo's from Flyzone. The charger is the ElectriFly 3-cell 11.1V LiPo balancing chargers. GPMM3319.

Hi :ws: What are you using for a charger power source , battery, power supply, your power supply could be weak, not giving the charger enough voltage, thats one of the main reasons for a charger going into a error mode, also check your battery cell voltages, a good charger is a must have, here is one that a lot of people like and it wont break the bank ;-)

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...cessories.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...CC6%282%29.jpg

Madman1701 06-05-2014 04:36 AM

Okay, I'll check the voltage tomorrow. So I should get a min of 9v then. For the power source I'm just plugging it into my wall. There is no power supply, it's just a cable that goes from the wall directly into the charger. I've tried 2 outlets. The batteries just literally go right to error. Thanks for the charger tip, I was looking into better chargers, there's just so many to choose from.

CHELLIE 06-05-2014 05:33 AM

You will need a power supply with that charger, here is a nice one, or you can make your own power supply from a old pc power supply.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...00v_240v_.html


http://www.marcee.org/Articles/PCPowerSupply.htm


http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...c+power+supply

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...alog/25283.jpg

JetPlaneFlyer 06-05-2014 05:51 AM

As the others have hinted at, it sounds like you may have over-discharged the batteries. At what point did you stop flying, did you fly literally until the model lost all power to the motor? If so you shouldn't do that, you should use a timer and land before the battery is totally exhausted.

Having said that the low voltage cut-off (LVC) on the ESC should stop the batteries from being over-discharged to the point that they can no longer be charged, so something odd is going on. Possibly the LVC is set to too low a value, this can usually be adjusted in the ESC programming. 3.2 volts per cell is a value that will ensure that the battery remains chargeable even after LVC activates.

CHELLIE 06-05-2014 10:17 AM

Hi :ws: If you lipos are discharged down to low, you may be able to put a surface charge back into them with a 500ma 12v wall transformer, make sure the polarity is correct, and only charge them for a few mins. to bring up the voltage, then your charger may charge them again, Hope that helps, Chellie

fhhuber 06-05-2014 01:15 PM

Before blaming it on the batteries... since the issue started mid-charge its possible to be the chargers that failed and the batteries may be fine. It could also be the power source.

How are you supplying power to the charger? If its from a lead-acid or gel cell battery then maybe its voltage is too low.

JetPlaneFlyer 06-05-2014 01:26 PM

He said he'd tried two chargers, and both went into 'error'.. So that would tend to point toward a battery issue, but best keep an open mind.

Regardless, it would be a good investment to get a better charger.

solentlife 06-05-2014 02:39 PM

Quote:

For the power source I'm just plugging it into my wall. There is no power supply, it's just a cable that goes from the wall directly into the charger.
I looked at the quoted charger online and I could not find a mains powered one ... all the ones I found were 12v input ...

Quote:

The charger is the ElectriFly 3-cell 11.1V LiPo balancing chargers. GPMM3319
Is my Google up the swanny ?

??

Nigel

Madman1701 06-05-2014 03:59 PM

Oy so many responses :)

Okay I am going out in a bit and will be picking up a volt meter. As for the discharge, I did not fly the plane until it died. I landed the plane and powered down with plenty of juice left in the battery. I have taken proper care of both batteries. I've seen the threads about what can happen with the batteries.

As for the charger maybe I am just using the wrong terms here. The charger comes with a 12v adapter to plug into the wall. When someone says power supply I think of something like a laptop brick, or the image that Chellie posted above.

I think a better charger is in store. I am left wondering if the chargers are the issue since I find it hard to believe that both batteries are duds after their first run.

I'll post again when I get the voltage.

JetPlaneFlyer 06-05-2014 06:28 PM

If the motor was still running when you landed then over-discharge shouldn't be an issue. That does tend to put the finger on the charger but it's very unusual for two to go wrong.

I take it that this is the charger you are using: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...P?I=LXVZZ4&P=8 If so then you really should do yourself and your batteries a favour and pick up something better. The Accucell-6 would be a big improvement.

Madman1701 06-05-2014 06:55 PM

Yes that is the charger. I will definitely be getting a better one.

solentlife 06-05-2014 07:16 PM

I have two RTF chargers that are similar ... but different case and labels ...

For MINE : 2 - 3 hours charging is nothing on a 2100 3S pack ... they charge at a measly rate of about 800mA and through balance lead. They take ages to end and really are only suitable for small packs ..

If OP's are anything like that .... then yes get a better charger.

My money though is on the power supply being shot ... as BOTH chargers have thrown out the packs as ERROR. Unless the power pack is underpowered ...

Even though the chargers are low rate - they still need a good supply and 12v at 5A is usually reckoned as a minimum ... basically because the charger has to step up to the 13.5v + needed to charge up a 3S pack... as full pack hits 12.6v ...

If the power pack is only 1A or so - then it's just not going to be man enough for the job.

Nigel

Madman1701 06-05-2014 09:29 PM

Well if the power supply could be the problem could I buy one if those 12v adapter power supplies with the correct connector for my charger and see if that works? I just bought the volt meter so ill be checking the voltage when I get home in 20mins or so.

solentlife 06-05-2014 09:48 PM

With power supplies - it's not usually the voltage that's problem - it's the ability to supply sufficient amps.

Do yourself a favour ... get the Accucel Charger and a decent 6A or more power supply ... (the Accucel works of a 5A - but that's pushing limits of supply all the time .. better to get higher output, personally I have a 10A supply for one charger and 6A for the other ... )

Power supplies are available at Radio Shack ... and that large store of Electrical gear .. begins with B ? Forget it's name in USA ... BestBuy or something ?

What you need is a regulated 12V, 6A 'brick' as minimum. A 10A version is better as it will not be pushed to limits.

Don't waste anymore time on RTF chargers ...

Nigel

Madman1701 06-05-2014 10:30 PM

Okay, so silly question. What do I set the volt meter to to test the battery. I assume 15 DC, but it reads really high at 38v on the DC line which is at 11.4v on the AC line. I'm so confused.

Madman1701 06-05-2014 10:48 PM

[IMG]http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/...psc97cf874.jpg[/IMG]

JetPlaneFlyer 06-05-2014 10:52 PM

Yes, set it to DC. If set to AC it would read zero volts when connected to a battery, so i think you are getting the setting wrong somehow.

11.4v is correct for a half charged 3s LiPo

Sorry, i just saw the image you attached. that is reading just under 12v on the 0-15v DC scale. When set to DC the figures in black are the DC voltage scales, 0 to 15 is the scale you are reading off.

Madman1701 06-05-2014 11:20 PM

Okay well both my batteries are close to the same voltage. So that leaves the chargers being the issue somewhere then. Thanks for all the help everyone.

One more question though JetPlane - If my batteries are 11.1v what would the voltage be for a fully charged battery?

Also I spoke with Great Planes and they are replacing my chargers with one of these for free (I'm only getting one) http://www.greathobbies.com/producti...od_id=DTXP4195

kyleservicetech 06-05-2014 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madman1701 (Post 949857)
Okay, so silly question. What do I set the volt meter to to test the battery. I assume 15 DC, but it reads really high at 38v on the DC line which is at 11.4v on the AC line. I'm so confused.

You might check out a digital multimeter. Harbor Freight has them for about $5.00. I'm not at home, will refer to a posting I made on how to use one.

Madman1701 06-05-2014 11:30 PM

I'm in Canada. There aren't any digital ones for five bucks here. A digital one was gonna cost $40. I'm pretty sure this one is right, I was just confused for a sec on how to use the damn thing.

Madman1701 06-06-2014 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer (Post 949861)
Sorry, i just saw the image you attached. that is reading just under 12v on the 0-15v DC scale. When set to DC the figures in black are the DC voltage scales, 0 to 15 is the scale you are reading off.

Yeah I just realized this myself. Makes so much sense when you look at the colors haha. Again I really appreciate everyone's help.

kyleservicetech 06-06-2014 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madman1701 (Post 949865)
I'm in Canada. There aren't any digital ones for five bucks here. A digital one was gonna cost $40. I'm pretty sure this one is right, I was just confused for a sec on how to use the damn thing.

This thread is aimed at digital meters, but perhaps you might find some useful info here.

Digital Multimeters
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52821

JetPlaneFlyer 06-06-2014 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madman1701 (Post 949863)
One more question though JetPlane - If my batteries are 11.1v what would the voltage be for a fully charged battery?

A fully charged LiPo is 4.2v per cell, so 12.6v for a 3s battery.
However it's normal for the voltage to fall back slightly from 4.2v after the charge completes, so you might only measure around 11.5v for you fully charged 3s... that's perfectly ok.


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