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-   -   Painting new Super Cub S (need to see on Cloudy days) (http://www.Wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73919)

RVDriver 06-19-2014 03:19 AM

Painting new Super Cub S (need to see on Cloudy days)
 
I just got a HobbyZoneŽ Super Cub S with Safe Tech, I don't really like the "White with Red trim". Has any one painted "New" Z Foam ?

From what I have read they say spray with water-based polyurethane, then use acrylic (cheap water base) color) , next water-based polyurethane again to seal.


Any thoughts, comments?
I'll mast off some of the "Red" trim, but spray "Yellow" for main color, any problem going over decals? Ninty-Nine % of body will be "Yellow" Just leave Red Trim on Wings and Tail.

Number one reason is "VISIBILITY", Thanks

Bruce S Haug

kyleservicetech 06-19-2014 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVDriver (Post 950859)
I just got a HobbyZoneŽ Super Cub S with Safe Tech, I don't really like the "White with Red trim". Has any one painted "New" Z Foam ?

From what I have read they say spray with water-based polyurethane, then use acrylic (cheap water base) color) , next water-based polyurethane again to seal.


Any thoughts, comments?
I'll mast off some of the "Red" trim, but spray "Yellow" for main color, any problem going over decals? Ninty-Nine % of body will be "Yellow" Just leave Red Trim on Wings and Tail.

Number one reason is "VISIBILITY", Thanks

Bruce S Haug

I don't know about painting the Z foam but for me yellow is a good color for visibility.

fhhuber 06-19-2014 03:34 AM

"International" orange is considered to be the highest visibility color, especially against clouds or the sea.

Not sure about Z-Foam.... I suspect its related to EPO. You'll have to do some testing to see what paints will or won't attack it. EPO is resistant to most paints and so you can spray with most rattle cans. Many foams are NOT resistant to acetone or other solvents and will melt or suffer surface deformation.

Clip a scrap of foam from somewhere that won't harm the model and try the spray paint you want to use on the scrap. Apply it extra heavy and you'll find out quickly if the foam will survive.

If all else fails there's the Krylon "H2O" paints which are water based latex n a spray can. If you use that you'll have to apply very thin coats several times as it likes to run badly if applied for one coat coverage. Or you can get an airbrush and use water based acrylic paint.

Wrongway-Feldman 06-19-2014 03:47 AM

You can also try colored packing tape in key locations on the plane. Wing tips, tail, bottom of fuselage. I've done this with a few of my white planes and it makes a world of difference. Different colours on each wing tip can help with orientation against a grey sky as well.

flydiver 06-19-2014 04:20 AM

Once it's a ways away all underside surfaces are 'shadowed and look black'. In close....doesn't matter quite as much. What you want is dramatic differences between the top and bottom. Red becomes black at distance in shadow. It seems like a great choice but isn't. Some of the florescents can show up quite well. Which ones seems to be a matter of cones-n-rods in the eye of the beholder sort of thing. Some like yellow, some green, some pink, some chartreuse. Any/all can work. Use what works for you.

Paint adds weight if used indiscriminately, especially on the tail. I suggest you invest in some of this tape and make some dramatic black stripes on the wing bottom, or purple, or orange, etc. Something that stands out. Stripes stand out more than solid color.
2" Acrylic Colored Carton Sealing Tape
Then make whatever top colors suit you. The tape can be removed if needed AND will add strength. Paint just adds weight.

Z-foam is somewhat 'greasy'. Good stuff and resistant to impact but is hard to paint without flaking off. Taping it is easier and more reliable. But GOOD taping is an acquired art.

kyleservicetech 06-19-2014 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flydiver (Post 950866)
Which ones seems to be a matter of cones-n-rods in the eye of the beholder sort of thing. Some like yellow, some green, some pink, some chartreuse. Any/all can work. Use what works for you.

Off topic, but the best color I ever had was a transparent yellow Monocote covering on a 10 foot wingspan sailplane in the late 1990's. The sun lit up that covering like a stop sign.

Panther 06-19-2014 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech (Post 950870)
Off topic, but the best color I ever had was a transparent yellow Monocote covering on a 10 foot wingspan sailplane in the late 1990's. The sun lit up that covering like a stop sign.

Best answer.

solentlife 06-19-2014 01:55 PM

All solid colours meld ... I love that word !! MELD into a dark shape. The only way to use them is CONTRAST.

My 50mm T45 originally was the bog standard US Navy white with red wing tips .......... yeh great ! a) I'm not against USA - but do we ALL have to have USS xxxxxx paint schemes ?, b) you had to keep eye on it and know which way she was heading / upright or not.

So I deferred ......... another lovely word !! DEFERRED to my personal fav ... the RED ARROWS scheme of red with definite white additions.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...epaint0043.jpg

Now I agree that RED becomes another dark solid colour up there - but NOT when you have that great big WHITE arrow underneath !! That stood out like Dolly Partons ****** ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgqkZh1tIhs

The trick is CONTRAST ... did I say that before ? Oh Yes .. contrast !

Ok lets move on. Why was the Sunburst scheme so popular with Airshow biplanes years ago ? And why with models ? Well - it has VISIBILITY ... you bet !

My 53" biplane with 61 Glow up front has sunburst -

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...ps6207a737.jpg

My Badius 980mm Aerobatic has sunburst ....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...pscb6f30aa.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...ps55121ece.jpg

even my little pusher F15 has a variance on the burst scheme ...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...F15depron2.jpg

it works !

One scheme I would advise against ... sorry to some who use it ... Stay away from such that cause glint or glare .. such as shiny silver etc.
I want to see the model - not a heliographic flash in the sky !!

Nigel

Panther 06-19-2014 10:43 PM

I know what you mean about every second plane having USA insignia, My decals kept peeling off anyway soooo....
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5ecfa2ad.jpg

RVDriver 06-19-2014 11:37 PM

Painting new Super Cub S (need to see on Cloudy days
 
Thanks Guys, will try to post pictures next week when "Painting is Complete"

RVDriver :)

fhhuber 06-20-2014 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flydiver (Post 950866)
Z-foam is somewhat 'greasy'. Good stuff and resistant to impact but is hard to paint without flaking off. Taping it is easier and more reliable. But GOOD taping is an acquired art.

Sounds very much like EPO. Any painted EPO model you can expect the paint to peel because EPO is almost as non-stick as Teflon.

Scuffing the surface helps but the paint still won't stay on EPO. The factory paint on all of the Dynam EPO models looks aged in a relatively short time and a couple of years of active flying can turn them white.

maxflyer 06-20-2014 02:58 AM

Rather than thinking about color, think about pattern. Well-placed (and spaced) black stripes work well for me. I am mostly blind in one eye.

solentlife 06-20-2014 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhhuber (Post 950953)
Sounds very much like EPO. Any painted EPO model you can expect the paint to peel because EPO is almost as non-stick as Teflon.

Scuffing the surface helps but the paint still won't stay on EPO. The factory paint on all of the Dynam EPO models looks aged in a relatively short time and a couple of years of active flying can turn them white.

That's why interior wall emulsion scores ... if you get the vinyl type - it forms a skin like covering. It is remarkably resilient.

On it's own is great for WW2 warbirds ... the semi-matt is spot on. If you want gloss - you can spray with a gloss clear lacquer.

You can get the store to mix to the colour you want ... it comes in large cans and cheap ...

Nigel

Porcia83 06-20-2014 03:38 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Krylon-KSCS029...ylon+shortcuts

I've found this to be the best paint overall for painting all types of foams. I usually pay 3.95 per can. Most hardware stores and craft stores have these.

This is the second best is this:
http://www.dickblick.com/items/01432-5060/#photos

Most art and craft supply stores will have these. They carry the widest selection of colors, double or triple what Kryon has. They are generally 10-12 per can but it's 12 ounces instead of 3 for the Kryon. I only use the flat colors, the metalics do NOT work on foam, they run like crazy. Another issue with these is the caps. After using you have to tip the can and clear the nozzle otherwise it will clog, and the can is useless.

I wipe all the foam down with denatured alchohol and then lightly sand with high # paper, then wipe again. After applying I use some Krylon poly (small cans only). I found anything other than those small cans will melt the foam.

I've tried the H20 line of paint but the paint ran like crazy and didn't cover well. Hope that helps!

solentlife 06-20-2014 05:22 PM

Just an example of vinyl wall paint ...


Here's the original out of box Lanyu ME109 :

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...9/DSCF0733.jpg

Here she is with the SINGLE COAT repaint job in vinyl matt emulsion :

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...k/DSCF1592.jpg

underneath as well :

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...k/DSCF1595.jpg

Markings by black permanent marker ...

Nigel

BroncoSquid 06-20-2014 06:05 PM

Acrylic polymer primer, and acrylic paints.
From this:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/atta...6&d=1375831336
To this:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/atta...5&d=1375831336

solentlife 06-20-2014 07:31 PM

Hi Bronco ... I love the Mig 15 ... even have a photo of me standing by a real one ..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...psfcea6132.jpg

I note you have sprayed yours .. and possibly used an airbrush for the 'lines' ...

I have AB as well and also use Acrylic sprays for other models.

One problem with sprays ..... this is for others contemplating use of them :

The propellant used to carry the spray is often an eater of foam .. I have a couple of Depron and EPO jobs that have serious areas of 'eaten' foam from the petroleum spirit based propellant. Spraying from a decent distance from the foam will usually be safe - but just one time when you edge in a touch closer to 'hit that spot' and BHAM - it's done.

My ME109 is brush painted ... not sprayed. It's single coat. The vinyl emulsion is not a lightweight paint to use but it flows nice, brush marks flow out as it dries, it dries quickly, it does not chip or flake like thin lacquer style paints. In fact it forms a skin that is remarkably resilient. It needs no primer ... it goes on straight.
It comes in BIG cans ............ for just a few $ ...

Nigel

thepiper92 06-20-2014 08:33 PM

Other thing I find that helps is the landing gear itself, and the bigger the gear and wheels, the easier it is to see if the plane is inverted, or which way it is banking. My feelings are that you should get used to any little thing that allows you to see the orientation of the plane, not just coloring, or stripes, because if you start getting into planes that are scale, such as warbirds, you will get away from a lot of the colors that let you see a plane easily, and will just have to know exactly what you are doing with the controls to know which way the plane is going. Also a bigger plane helps. You take a 80 inch wing span plane out a good distance, and can still see its orientation, a smaller plane at the same distance will be a dot in the sky. This is one thing important for learning and why it makes sense to have a larger plane to start with. There is the idea of mistakes high, giving you room to mess up. A UMX plane may be in scale a similar distance from the ground, or that's how I see it, but in actuality, you are much closer to the ground, and if you happen to be inverted, do up elevator, that plane is making a quick landing. Make that same mistake higher up with the larger plane and you will bring it close to the ground, but likely will do a half loop and find yourself upright again.

Also, for cloudy days, I feel much safer on cloudy days. Yes, sun helps the colors come out somewhat, but cross the line of the sun and snap, the plane has vanished to another dimension and comes out of it inverted 2 feet from the ground. I found that while learning, I didn't always know which way to move the controls, and once or twice I crossed the fearsome sun and it gets the heart pumping. That red and white trim on the Super Cub shouldn't be too bad, it has stripes on the bottom too. Being a high wing will help too.

RVDriver 06-24-2014 12:02 AM

Thanks guy's, now one more Question? I the foam in the box the same as the plane? For testing paint on.

Thanks

thepiper92 06-24-2014 12:05 AM

No, it is not the same foam, or at least any boxes my planes came in were not the same foam.

RVDriver 06-24-2014 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepiper92 (Post 951219)
No, it is not the same foam, or at least any boxes my planes came in were not the same foam.

Thanks, just wanted to test "Paint"

Bruce :concern:

BroncoSquid 06-24-2014 01:34 AM

Make sure you also test the tape. I wanted to see if my tape would pull the paint off the foam. The paint stuck to the foam just fine, the problem was that the tape took chunks of foam with it. Yeah, changed tape.

gramps2361 06-24-2014 01:56 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I did a FunCub up and cleaned the mold release off of it then gave it a light coat of 3M adhesive before painting it. Been a year now and the paint job is holding up great.

One thing with the Super cub 3M contact adhesive can eat the foam. You have to hold the spray can away from the foam a good 12 inches or more and do it in 2 light coats. Let the first coat dry for a couple of hours then one more light coat.
The adhesive sticks to the foam great and the paint adheres to the adhesive. I used tape and the lines came out great with no lifting of paint. This always was a frustration painting on foam for me.

solentlife 06-24-2014 08:03 AM

Contact Adhesive comes in two basic forms :

Solvent based - you can smell the 'spirit' in it ... it's the Glue Sniffers heaven !!

Solvent-free - usually near odour free.

Solvent-free will work on most foams without eating them up.

With paints - as I mentioned earlier - it's usually the PROPELLANT that is the problem. It can be petroleum based and that just loves foam for breakfast.

Get a bit of packing foam or even an old bit of a model you don't want .. stick it in a jar with a dose of gasoline ... :eek:

Nigel

BroncoSquid 06-24-2014 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramps2161 (Post 951229)
I did a FunCub up and cleaned the mold release off of it then gave it a light coat of 3M adhesive before painting it. Been a year now and the paint job is holding up great.

One thing with the Super cub 3M contact adhesive can eat the foam. You have to hold the spray can away from the foam a good 12 inches or more and do it in 2 light coats. Let the first coat dry for a couple of hours then one more light coat.
The adhesive sticks to the foam great and the paint adheres to the adhesive. I used tape and the lines came out great with no lifting of paint. This always was a frustration painting on foam for me.

Intresting, never thought of using 3M adhesive as a primer.:concern: I may try it. I like the paintjob on the funcub. I HATE having the same foamy as everyone else. Hence the reason I paint mine.


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