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Old 07-30-2012, 07:46 AM   #1
needlenoses
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Default Upgrading Motor in Latest Parkzone Spitfire

If I have pt this thread in the wrong slot, just let me know. New here.

I have been flying the Parkzone Spitfire for about 6 months now; flys just fine but is lacking in power/performance. Has anyone installed a better motor in this warbird??
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:39 PM   #2
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I've got the this plane and most of the PZ warbirds but sorry to say i haven't changed the motor just yet,no doubt i will but to many other projects to sort out first.

The motor i put in my PZ F4U Corsair was the Turnigy easy match G10 which gives tat loads more power and it was a straight swap with no mods to anything,just remember when you upgrade motors you might have to add a bit more strength in the wings,i also used a Turnigy 3536 motor in my old PZ Spitfire and that thing really does get up and go,some times a bit to fast to be honest.

If i remember correctly some people are using the Turnigy G10 and G15 which work out the same sort of motor to the power 10 and 15,but you will have to check out what on the links i'll post.

If you can't find out to much info on this forum i'll leave a link to the motors i used and i'll leave a link to a big thread on this plane over on rcgroups,there are a few boys over there that have changed the motor out,if you don't want to read it all just asked and they will be only to happy to let you known what motors they used.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1463636

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...EasyMatch.html
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:46 PM   #3
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Thanks for input; I am also asking around in RCGROUP. I guess before I choose I should measure the dimensions of the stock motor. With the long collet length, motor length will be an issue. I am not looking for the Spit to fly as fast as my Strykers; just want to bunp it up a couple of notches. Lots of foam Mustangs flyin aroun here, and they are all, so far, considerably quicker. By the way, I am located in British Columbia Canada. Haven't has a chance to set up a profile yet.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:56 PM   #4
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The question you are asking is highly subjective and CAN get you a LOT of different answers and suggestions.

Are you after pure speed? Going with a smaller prop? Going with a higher pitch prop? Larger ESC? UBEC? Larger capacity batteries? Higher "C" rated batteries?

Are the "foam Mustangs" using retractable landing gear or fixed or are they not using any gear and being hand launched and belly landed. In other words are they "faster" than your Spitfire NOT because they have a larger motor but because they are LIGHTER AND SMALLER.

Want more speed? Take away the retracts totally. Cover the wheel wells with packing tape. Change the prop to the PZ extra 300 prop (it's a 10.5 X 9) and hand launch/belly land.

Generally speaking the "larger" motors are also lower kv motors and thus need to swing larger props to get the same speed as a higher kv motor swinging a smaller diameter prop. People choose the larger motors for that purpose so that they can swing a large 4 blade prop - more in line with 'SCALE" looks and not necessarily for performance. Some use the 2 blade props and bigger motor BUT add a cell to their battery - 4 cell. This adds the extra rpm to the smaller prop - but it is also adding weight.

As I said in the beginning of this long winded post - it is a VERY subjective question and the answer is really only known to you as only you know what you want from the plane in performance and looks.

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Old 07-30-2012, 09:40 PM   #5
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ALSO to be noted is the fact that the Parkzone motor mount is pretty SPECIFIC to the PZ motors. You CAN adapt other motors to it - IF - if they are the same bolt pattern for at LEAST 2 of the motor bolt holes and IF the motor, case and shaft are the same as the stock motor.

IF there are any variances to the stock motor with your choice of replacement motor - you had better be well versed in adaption and "making" things work.

Also of note is that a change of motor and/or a change of the prop usually necessitates a change of the ESC for something more comparable to your new needs. Say 20% to 30% ABOVE the average draw of amperage from the new system tested via a wattmeter. Reading the forum threads will produce posts from users that have already been down the road and have already tested the motor and setup.

Not everyone will have the exact same experience with the same motor and prop and esc's. But you will get an idea CLOSE to your needs.

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Old 07-30-2012, 10:07 PM   #6
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Yep Hillbille is right about the prop as i've got the PZ extra prop on my New PZ Spitfire and my PZ P-47 thunderbolt,which is as he said is a 10.5 x 9 and that will give you the little more speed enough that you will notice.

PLus you could always just go the battery route and i use the blue Turnigy 3s 2200mah 40/50C or/and the Nano-Tech 3s 2200mah 25/50C batteries,as these will boost your speed a little and again so that you Will notice,as i have have these batteries and they perform all lot better than the standard PZ batteries and the C rating is higher.

AS i said in my earlier post the Turnigy easy match 10G motor was a straight swap out for the PZ one in my F4U Corsair but i can't say for sure about the PZ Spitfire one,also there are loads of motor mounts sold on ebay that are made to fit the PZ range of warbirds to suit the Hobbyking brand of motors,i know because i've used one for my older Spitfire (the first one PZ brought out) i've got a video showing that build,so i'll upload it just in case your interested,if not someone else might enjoy it.

You will be able to see the Turnigy 3536 motor that i used as well as the motor mount,but as you said you didn't want to go that fast i'd say go for the Turnigy 10G,if not try the battery or prop option as both of them are good on there own and together.

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Old 08-01-2012, 12:18 AM   #7
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I am just looking for an all round increase in performance. I could go to an e-flite power 25 (or cheaper equivilant), a 60 amp esc (already have one as a spare for my Stryker), and I might be able to use my existing 2600ma 3 cell 65C batteries, or an existing 4 cell if it will slide on in. It is not an all out need for speed, as I have my stryker for that, and I have small 3D foamies for slow performance. I am a wide-spectrum kind of flyer. I really have the most fun right now with my Mini Ultra Stick that I have just converted over to quad-flaps. Definately a learning curve going on here!!!
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:25 PM   #8
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Like a said above if you just want to go a little faster go the battery and prop route,you will be surprised how much difference a higher C battery and a 10.5x9 prop will make.

This hobby is one big learning curve mate and i learn something new most weeks from forums and i've been at it for a 5 years now,it all adds to the fun.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:18 PM   #9
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I have seen 12x6 props at the hobby shop with 3 blades before. I would definately check the watt meter on that one though.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:34 PM   #10
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I would be difficult for me to use the 12 inch prop due to clearance when the plane lifts it's tail on take off. Local hobby shop has no 3 bladed props in stock, but there is always "on-line". I would think that if a 2 bladed E 10 in. prop gets me up to 30 amps, a 10 in. 3 bladed prop might do the trick. Thing is, how many props do I want to "buy and try" to get an answer. Motocalc is supposed to help, and I am trying to figure out all the parameters I have to enter to het answers. I have the motor, I have "built" my esc into the database, also my 60 amp esc for my test Stryker, I have built the airframe data, but I have to figure out what to do with "FILTER" and "DRIVE SYSTEM". I am reading, and getting there.

When this is done I will post the data on my test stryker. You will go YIKES!!!
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by needlenoses View Post
I would be difficult for me to use the 12 inch prop due to clearance when the plane lifts it's tail on take off. Local hobby shop has no 3 bladed props in stock, but there is always "on-line". I would think that if a 2 bladed E 10 in. prop gets me up to 30 amps, a 10 in. 3 bladed prop might do the trick. Thing is, how many props do I want to "buy and try" to get an answer. Motocalc is supposed to help, and I am trying to figure out all the parameters I have to enter to het answers. I have the motor, I have "built" my esc into the database, also my 60 amp esc for my test Stryker, I have built the airframe data, but I have to figure out what to do with "FILTER" and "DRIVE SYSTEM". I am reading, and getting there.

When this is done I will post the data on my test stryker. You will go YIKES!!!
I don't even use the filter command. Just enter the motor data, battery data, just about any ESC like a Castle Creations 40 amp or so, and put in a range of propellers, say from a 10-6 to a 12-10. Motocalc will spit out a number of results, like a 10-6, 10-7 - - then 11-6, 11-7 and so on.

Click on one of the results, and click on the "Opinion" to see what the program thinks of your selection. Especially watch the rate of climb, and the propeller pitch speed, as compared to the stalling speed of your model.

The opinion feature will flag you if you try to put in to high, or two low of a pitch for the projected models stalling and flying speed.

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Old 12-15-2012, 01:34 AM   #12
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I uploaded an attachment; we shall see what happens.

Picked one item 10X10 prop to see if it comes close to what I actually read on the test which was 30.46Amps/310 watts. Curiously, an 11X10 got 30.53Amps/300watts.

Cells = 2
Gear Ratio = 1.00
Diam (in) = 10.0
Pitch (in) = 10.0
Weight (oz) = 52.0
Batt Amps = 6.5
Motor Amps = 6.5
Motor Volts = 3.4
Input (W) = 22.4
InPLd (W/lb) = 6.9
Loss (W) = 7.8
MGbOut (W) = 14.6
OutPLd (W/lb) = 4.5
MotGb Ef(%) = 65.3
Shaft Ef(%) = 30.3
Prop RPM = 3071
Thrust (oz) = 5.3
PSpd (mph) = 29.1
RofC (fpm) = -159
Time (m:s) = 24:49

Does not make sense to me; maybe having a gear ratio of one is wrong. I don't know.

My brain is starting to hurt!!


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Old 12-15-2012, 02:08 AM   #13
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If you look at the pitch speed and amprage of a 9X9 and 10X10 props, they closely mirror each other at lower power levels.

I "calculated" 75mph pitch speed with one, and 76 mph with the other. The amprage was very close between the two, being slightly higher for the 10X10 obviously. Theoredically, a 5X5 and a 10x10 should have the same pitch speed at the same rpm"s, but obviously, the 5X5 would have much less thrust. This is an over exageration obviously...

The 11X10 might produce more thrust, while not moving the air as fast, as a 10X10, giving you close to the same numbers.

Also remember, this is just a calculated guess, not a garentee. Still use your watt meter.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:17 PM   #14
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I did some work to the parkzone spitfire several years ago : http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...kzone+spitfire

One of the things i found about matching motors with props was that you needed a small enough prop if you want speed, unless you mod the stock plane where you are adding a lot of weight the larger props are no good. With the smaller props you need a higher Kv rating or more volts to get the RPMs needed. I always tried to match the highest pitch with the smallest prop to give the highest prop thrust speed. I only wanted to go fast LOL

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Old 12-22-2012, 09:01 PM   #15
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Thanks; I know what you mean as I have been fighting the electronics issue with my "test" Stryker. It is difficult to match up the amps/watts by just changing props. At some point I just lose too much thrust.
Work in progress that one!!!

As for the Spitfire, I was trying to choose a prop that would again balance out amps/watts. Stock prop was a 9x6.5 with the stock 30 amp esc and the stock motor. Now with the power 15 and a 40 amp esc, I can get really close with a 10X10E, or with a 4 cell I can use a 10X5E. Maybe I could try a 9X10E if there is such an animal. Will take it out soon, maybe even before Christmas for a couple of test flights.

I have evne thought about trying a couple of three bladed props now that I have more data.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:38 PM   #16
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the three blade props are only needed if you are heavy and/or can't get the thrust out of a prop without going too large of a diameter. Stick with the twin blades and go down in size and up in pitch, i think i ended up with a 7x9 prop and with 11.1v with a 1440Kv motor i was getting over 100mph of prop thrust speed. This number is important for your top speed, if you can only generate lets say 60mph of thrust speed then once a plane reaches that speed (minus drag) then the prop acts as a break not allowing you to go any faster.

there is another issue with using a bigger diameter, once the tip of the prop reaches the speed of sound it draws too many amps, the smaller props allow for a higher thrust speed without getting the prop tip farther away from the axis it spins on.

In my opinion go with the smallest prop and the highest Kv motor, i want at least a 1:1 thrust to weight. Take your gear out of your stryker and buy a miltiplex funjet body. With less weight and drag than a stryker the funjet is a beast.

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Old 01-02-2013, 03:07 PM   #17
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Just got a stock set up Parkzone Spitfire IX off a flying buddy of mine, after reading the posts on this thread decided to check the power of the stock set up myself before flying it. Used a fully charged 3S Turnigy Nano Tech 2200MaH 35-70C batt, this battery has had plenty of use in an Align 450 pro heli so it is well used but is showing a max of over 300watts @ over 26amps. Eventually going to try a few different APC props on it and one off the PZ Extra 300 10.5 x 9. As the ESC is rated at 30amps continuous with 35 amps burst there are a few more watts to be gained with the stock motor and ESC, batteries will probably be Turnigy Nano Tech 3S 2250 65-130C as I have a few of these new in box. Will fly it first in stock set up and see what it's like. Here's a jpeg of the stock set up power graph.


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Old 01-03-2013, 05:17 AM   #18
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Sorry for delay; but with Christmas and New Years, plus electrical problems with our RV, flying kind of hit the back burner.

Spitfire is ready to test-fly in a couple of days once other issues are solved. Have added a 2250ma 4 cell which took a little bit of balancing, 40 amp esc, new power 15 with a 10X7E. I am, reading 38.7 amps/596 watts static. Looking forward to getting it up in the air. If all goes well, I will re-tackle top same sort of issue with my test -stryker C.

As for the comment on the 'FUNJET"; had two and yes they are really fast; but for me, there is still a lot of fun left in the old Stryker C fuselage. I enjoy customizing, adding C.F. rods, painting them up all wierd, and flying them. Plus with my much older eyes, bigger is easier to keep traxk of.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:46 AM   #19
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Did it need much foam removal to fit the 4 cell batt ?
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:09 PM   #20
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I'll be doing a build thread on a bare ParkZone F4F Wildcat build and soup up. The same power setup will make the PZ Spitfire a rocket but you will have to follow my buils since PZ does not make it easy to use other peoples motors.

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Old 01-05-2013, 04:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Phillspectre View Post
Did it need much foam removal to fit the 4 cell batt ?

I did not have to enlarge the opening for the 4-cell at all. Slips in TIGHT so it is a small chore to slide it back out. Works for me, and if I want, after testing, I can slide my usual 2600 ma 3 cells in there which I have to strap in. I wouldn't have to change prop, but of course not the same results at all. Wind has finally eased here (Casa Grande AZ) so I may be testing this afternoon after I play Pickleball and it warms up a bit. Frosty on the rigs this morning. I will let you n\know what happens and if I have any parts left if the wings rips off!!
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:27 PM   #22
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Pleas do let us know. I opted for a 600 watt 1450 KV motor that weighs only about 6 grams more than the stock motor but requires spacers to make it fit correctly. This way I can run it on 2200 3S and get longer flight time and it still hauls. I also went to a 10X6 3 blade prop. This same moter will run on 4S using the stock PZ prop but it probably would tear the wings off. There really is such a thing as too fast.

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Old 01-05-2013, 08:07 PM   #23
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The e-flite power 15 screwed right on to the existing motor mount, and the stock shaft adapter worked fine except I needed one thick washer so that I could mount a nice large white nose to make it look a bit sharper. three bladed prop sounds cool; did you get the proper nose piece; noon here, having a quick lunch, then off I go to the field.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:13 PM   #24
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Yep I got a DuBro 3 Blade spinner that works like a charm but I have it on another plane at the moment. I"ll give you the part number as soon as I can find it in my pile of perpetual ignorance on my workbench. I'll be posting my stuff a little later but keep in mind it's for a Wildcat so a little different than what you have but the motor will make it a rocket on 3 cells, turn a bigger prop, and last longer.

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Old 01-06-2013, 05:16 AM   #25
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Ok, for all those interested; actually got out to a local field or desert would be better. As I have not flown for a while I chose to first fly one of my Stryker C customs and flung it around the sky (ended up with a weak battery which I will test and fly once more). Then I put one of my Mini Ultra Sticks (quad flaps) through it's paces using up a couple of batteries (this is still my favorite all-round plane to fly at the moment).

Then I hauled out the Spifire, did a full check on it, then off we went. Other than a couple of tweeks on the trip, it went fine. Did one good circuit with wheels down while I tried a few turns etc, then I retracted the wheels and went full throttle. This configuration increased the performance enough so that it flys more like it should have in the first place. Only guessing, but I figure about 25% more speed and vertical climb. It handled well and it didn't stall as easily in nose up turns etc.

I am happy at this point and will do some more flying tests with slightly different props. Could the airframe handle more; my opinion is, YES. But I have, I think, what I was looking for; not a Stryker like speed, just a reasonable amount more.
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