Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > R/C Electric Power - Batteries, Chargers, ESCs and More > Batteries & Chargers
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Batteries & Chargers Discuss Li-P, Li-Ion, NiMh, Nicad battery technology and the chargers that juice 'em up!

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-05-2014, 03:15 AM   #1
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Li-Po Batteries Error

I bought a Flyzone Sensei and had it out to fly last week. I ended up crashing it so the flight was a bit short. I charged both my batteries when I got them and all went well. I fixed up the plane and recharged the small amount of battery I used. Today I took the plane out and used both batteries. When I came home I plugged one in to the charger and it went to conditioning mode for about 2-3 hours before going to error. I tried plugging it in to the other charger and I just keep getting error. I tried charging my other battery and it is giving me an error as well as soon as I plug it in. It's just a cheap charger that came with the plane. The error could mean anything. I just find it strange that after their first discharge they are both not charging on two separate chargers. I am calling the place I got the plane from tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone had some insight into this problem. The batteries are 3 cell 11.1V 2100mah lipo's from Flyzone. The charger is the ElectriFly 3-cell 11.1V LiPo balancing chargers. GPMM3319.
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 04:02 AM   #2
Wildflyer
2014 President of PSSF
 
Wildflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lacey WA, 1 mile E of Mushroom Corner
Posts: 1,129
Thanked 130 Times in 126 Posts
Club: Puget Sound Silent Flyers -PSSF & Thurston County Miniature Aircraft Association - TCMAA
iTrader: (3)
Friends: (7)
Default

Get a volt meter and check the voltage of your cells and the total for the battery.

The conditioning mode may have discharged the batteries to a point below the programming for the charger.

Minimum voltage for each cell should be over 3 volts, below that and you may have lost that cell.

Sometimes with a adjustable charger you might put a small (50 ma) charge into a battery and bring it back up. Problem is, at least for me, it seems that battery will not preform light it did before. I use these batteries for running LED lights.

Dave R, Proud PGR rider.
When you have flying skills like mine,
You become a master at repair.
Wildflyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 04:19 AM   #3
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 18,349
View CHELLIE's Gallery13
Thanked 2,133 Times in 2,042 Posts
Club: Chino Renegades RC Flying Club
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Ambassador Award  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (307)
Default

Originally Posted by Madman1701 View Post
I bought a Flyzone Sensei and had it out to fly last week. I ended up crashing it so the flight was a bit short. I charged both my batteries when I got them and all went well. I fixed up the plane and recharged the small amount of battery I used. Today I took the plane out and used both batteries. When I came home I plugged one in to the charger and it went to conditioning mode for about 2-3 hours before going to error. I tried plugging it in to the other charger and I just keep getting error. I tried charging my other battery and it is giving me an error as well as soon as I plug it in. It's just a cheap charger that came with the plane. The error could mean anything. I just find it strange that after their first discharge they are both not charging on two separate chargers. I am calling the place I got the plane from tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone had some insight into this problem. The batteries are 3 cell 11.1V 2100mah lipo's from Flyzone. The charger is the ElectriFly 3-cell 11.1V LiPo balancing chargers. GPMM3319.
Hi What are you using for a charger power source , battery, power supply, your power supply could be weak, not giving the charger enough voltage, thats one of the main reasons for a charger going into a error mode, also check your battery cell voltages, a good charger is a must have, here is one that a lot of people like and it wont break the bank

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...cessories.html


I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
CHELLIE is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 04:36 AM   #4
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Okay, I'll check the voltage tomorrow. So I should get a min of 9v then. For the power source I'm just plugging it into my wall. There is no power supply, it's just a cable that goes from the wall directly into the charger. I've tried 2 outlets. The batteries just literally go right to error. Thanks for the charger tip, I was looking into better chargers, there's just so many to choose from.
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 05:33 AM   #5
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 18,349
View CHELLIE's Gallery13
Thanked 2,133 Times in 2,042 Posts
Club: Chino Renegades RC Flying Club
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Ambassador Award  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (307)
Default

You will need a power supply with that charger, here is a nice one, or you can make your own power supply from a old pc power supply.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...00v_240v_.html


http://www.marcee.org/Articles/PCPowerSupply.htm


http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...c+power+supply


I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
CHELLIE is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 05:51 AM   #6
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,378
Thanked 486 Times in 453 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

As the others have hinted at, it sounds like you may have over-discharged the batteries. At what point did you stop flying, did you fly literally until the model lost all power to the motor? If so you shouldn't do that, you should use a timer and land before the battery is totally exhausted.

Having said that the low voltage cut-off (LVC) on the ESC should stop the batteries from being over-discharged to the point that they can no longer be charged, so something odd is going on. Possibly the LVC is set to too low a value, this can usually be adjusted in the ESC programming. 3.2 volts per cell is a value that will ensure that the battery remains chargeable even after LVC activates.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 10:17 AM   #7
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 18,349
View CHELLIE's Gallery13
Thanked 2,133 Times in 2,042 Posts
Club: Chino Renegades RC Flying Club
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Ambassador Award  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (307)
Default

Hi If you lipos are discharged down to low, you may be able to put a surface charge back into them with a 500ma 12v wall transformer, make sure the polarity is correct, and only charge them for a few mins. to bring up the voltage, then your charger may charge them again, Hope that helps, Chellie

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
CHELLIE is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 01:15 PM   #8
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,130
Thanked 214 Times in 205 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Before blaming it on the batteries... since the issue started mid-charge its possible to be the chargers that failed and the batteries may be fine. It could also be the power source.

How are you supplying power to the charger? If its from a lead-acid or gel cell battery then maybe its voltage is too low.
fhhuber is online now  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 01:26 PM   #9
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,378
Thanked 486 Times in 453 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

He said he'd tried two chargers, and both went into 'error'.. So that would tend to point toward a battery issue, but best keep an open mind.

Regardless, it would be a good investment to get a better charger.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 02:39 PM   #10
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 6,014
View solentlife's Gallery47
Thanked 253 Times in 250 Posts
Club: Founder Member Ventspils RC Club. Ex Waltham Chase and Meon Valley Soaring.
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award  125mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (15)
Default

For the power source I'm just plugging it into my wall. There is no power supply, it's just a cable that goes from the wall directly into the charger.
I looked at the quoted charger online and I could not find a mains powered one ... all the ones I found were 12v input ...

The charger is the ElectriFly 3-cell 11.1V LiPo balancing chargers. GPMM3319
Is my Google up the swanny ?

??

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
- Subscribe my Youtube: "solentlifeuk"
solentlife is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 03:59 PM   #11
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Oy so many responses

Okay I am going out in a bit and will be picking up a volt meter. As for the discharge, I did not fly the plane until it died. I landed the plane and powered down with plenty of juice left in the battery. I have taken proper care of both batteries. I've seen the threads about what can happen with the batteries.

As for the charger maybe I am just using the wrong terms here. The charger comes with a 12v adapter to plug into the wall. When someone says power supply I think of something like a laptop brick, or the image that Chellie posted above.

I think a better charger is in store. I am left wondering if the chargers are the issue since I find it hard to believe that both batteries are duds after their first run.

I'll post again when I get the voltage.
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 06:28 PM   #12
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,378
Thanked 486 Times in 453 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

If the motor was still running when you landed then over-discharge shouldn't be an issue. That does tend to put the finger on the charger but it's very unusual for two to go wrong.

I take it that this is the charger you are using: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...P?I=LXVZZ4&P=8 If so then you really should do yourself and your batteries a favour and pick up something better. The Accucell-6 would be a big improvement.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 06:55 PM   #13
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Yes that is the charger. I will definitely be getting a better one.
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 07:16 PM   #14
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 6,014
View solentlife's Gallery47
Thanked 253 Times in 250 Posts
Club: Founder Member Ventspils RC Club. Ex Waltham Chase and Meon Valley Soaring.
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award  125mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (15)
Default

I have two RTF chargers that are similar ... but different case and labels ...

For MINE : 2 - 3 hours charging is nothing on a 2100 3S pack ... they charge at a measly rate of about 800mA and through balance lead. They take ages to end and really are only suitable for small packs ..

If OP's are anything like that .... then yes get a better charger.

My money though is on the power supply being shot ... as BOTH chargers have thrown out the packs as ERROR. Unless the power pack is underpowered ...

Even though the chargers are low rate - they still need a good supply and 12v at 5A is usually reckoned as a minimum ... basically because the charger has to step up to the 13.5v + needed to charge up a 3S pack... as full pack hits 12.6v ...

If the power pack is only 1A or so - then it's just not going to be man enough for the job.

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
- Subscribe my Youtube: "solentlifeuk"
solentlife is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:29 PM   #15
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Well if the power supply could be the problem could I buy one if those 12v adapter power supplies with the correct connector for my charger and see if that works? I just bought the volt meter so ill be checking the voltage when I get home in 20mins or so.
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:48 PM   #16
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 6,014
View solentlife's Gallery47
Thanked 253 Times in 250 Posts
Club: Founder Member Ventspils RC Club. Ex Waltham Chase and Meon Valley Soaring.
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award  125mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (15)
Default

With power supplies - it's not usually the voltage that's problem - it's the ability to supply sufficient amps.

Do yourself a favour ... get the Accucel Charger and a decent 6A or more power supply ... (the Accucel works of a 5A - but that's pushing limits of supply all the time .. better to get higher output, personally I have a 10A supply for one charger and 6A for the other ... )

Power supplies are available at Radio Shack ... and that large store of Electrical gear .. begins with B ? Forget it's name in USA ... BestBuy or something ?

What you need is a regulated 12V, 6A 'brick' as minimum. A 10A version is better as it will not be pushed to limits.

Don't waste anymore time on RTF chargers ...

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
- Subscribe my Youtube: "solentlifeuk"
solentlife is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 10:30 PM   #17
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Okay, so silly question. What do I set the volt meter to to test the battery. I assume 15 DC, but it reads really high at 38v on the DC line which is at 11.4v on the AC line. I'm so confused.
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 11:24 PM   #18
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 7,987
Thanked 693 Times in 675 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by Madman1701 View Post
Okay, so silly question. What do I set the volt meter to to test the battery. I assume 15 DC, but it reads really high at 38v on the DC line which is at 11.4v on the AC line. I'm so confused.
You might check out a digital multimeter. Harbor Freight has them for about $5.00. I'm not at home, will refer to a posting I made on how to use one.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 10:48 PM   #19
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

[IMG][/IMG]
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 10:52 PM   #20
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,378
Thanked 486 Times in 453 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Yes, set it to DC. If set to AC it would read zero volts when connected to a battery, so i think you are getting the setting wrong somehow.

11.4v is correct for a half charged 3s LiPo

Sorry, i just saw the image you attached. that is reading just under 12v on the 0-15v DC scale. When set to DC the figures in black are the DC voltage scales, 0 to 15 is the scale you are reading off.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 01:33 AM   #21
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Sorry, i just saw the image you attached. that is reading just under 12v on the 0-15v DC scale. When set to DC the figures in black are the DC voltage scales, 0 to 15 is the scale you are reading off.
Yeah I just realized this myself. Makes so much sense when you look at the colors haha. Again I really appreciate everyone's help.
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 11:20 PM   #22
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Okay well both my batteries are close to the same voltage. So that leaves the chargers being the issue somewhere then. Thanks for all the help everyone.

One more question though JetPlane - If my batteries are 11.1v what would the voltage be for a fully charged battery?

Also I spoke with Great Planes and they are replacing my chargers with one of these for free (I'm only getting one) http://www.greathobbies.com/producti...od_id=DTXP4195
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 07:42 AM   #23
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,378
Thanked 486 Times in 453 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Originally Posted by Madman1701 View Post
One more question though JetPlane - If my batteries are 11.1v what would the voltage be for a fully charged battery?
A fully charged LiPo is 4.2v per cell, so 12.6v for a 3s battery.
However it's normal for the voltage to fall back slightly from 4.2v after the charge completes, so you might only measure around 11.5v for you fully charged 3s... that's perfectly ok.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 11:30 PM   #24
Madman1701
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

I'm in Canada. There aren't any digital ones for five bucks here. A digital one was gonna cost $40. I'm pretty sure this one is right, I was just confused for a sec on how to use the damn thing.
Madman1701 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 06:21 AM   #25
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 7,987
Thanked 693 Times in 675 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by Madman1701 View Post
I'm in Canada. There aren't any digital ones for five bucks here. A digital one was gonna cost $40. I'm pretty sure this one is right, I was just confused for a sec on how to use the damn thing.
This thread is aimed at digital meters, but perhaps you might find some useful info here.

Digital Multimeters
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52821

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > R/C Electric Power - Batteries, Chargers, ESCs and More > Batteries & Chargers

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
parallel charging, batteries at different voltages. JetPlaneFlyer Batteries & Chargers 7 05-15-2013 12:57 PM
1s Lipo batteries for Parkzone Mustang won't hold charge Captainchris Batteries & Chargers 4 09-30-2011 10:16 PM
Mad Dog Micro Li Poly Batteries For Parkzone and E-Flite Heli's 2dogrc Batteries & Chargers 0 07-29-2011 12:29 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.32228 seconds with 67 queries