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Old 06-25-2014, 08:32 PM   #1
vv2369
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Default slowstick rolls

hello, im a complete newbie, i started a thread for i am lost for answers, ive read probably all about slowsticks for the last 2months most on this site,thank you guys.
my problem is my slow stick always rolls to the left or right, and crashes. by now my slowstick is no longer good looking .
im using power 400 slowfly and 1300mah lipo,CoG at 95mm, i was foolish enough to install aileron but i removed it,taped it back.
i always take off to the wind(if there's any) and after a few feet from the ground it either roll to the right or left then of course, epic return to earth.
the wings are fine (as far as i could see) lots of cracks than the local san andreas faults here in socal. most of it from foolishly trying in the wind,BTW i installed the clear plastic wing insert so it reduced the dihedral and i cant remove it without damaging something .
the most i have achieved is a straight flight then left turn then left again then balloon to ground,it wont climb anymore higher to gain alt for a safer flight. i corrected the CoG to 95mm
i 've since replace the motor mount, plastic wing mount from mellenium, and the fiberglass stick to CF and lots of motor shaft (more on the way,with prop saver , i learned this time)

but still ..need help, trying to learn this by my self, any inputs?
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:40 PM   #2
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Post a picture of your wing. no dihedrial will cause the plane to be very hard to control and once it starts rolling right or left it will just drop out of the sky. i build a bipe up using a straight wing.up top and had no problems. once i added another one, i could not control it at all.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:59 PM   #3
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thanks hayofstacks, il try to post a picture asap, it still have some dihedral left in it about 6 or more degrees but no where near the default 12.
the alignment of the wings,perfectly square to the stick if look at the top, as far as i could see it is even. the wing is mounted center and square to the stick. left wing have more glue on it when it crashed hard after ballooning to the left.but rolls to the right ..lol. thanks= for the reply.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by vv2369 View Post
hello, im a complete newbie, i started a thread for i am lost for answers, ive read probably all about slowsticks for the last 2months most on this site,thank you guys.
my problem is my slow stick always rolls to the left or right, and crashes. by now my slowstick is no longer good looking .
im using power 400 slowfly and 1300mah lipo,CoG at 95mm, i was foolish enough to install aileron but i removed it,taped it back.
i always take off to the wind(if there's any) and after a few feet from the ground it either roll to the right or left then of course, epic return to earth.
the wings are fine (as far as i could see) lots of cracks than the local san andreas faults here in socal. most of it from foolishly trying in the wind,BTW i installed the clear plastic wing insert so it reduced the dihedral and i cant remove it without damaging something .
the most i have achieved is a straight flight then left turn then left again then balloon to ground,it wont climb anymore higher to gain alt for a safer flight. i corrected the CoG to 95mm
i 've since replace the motor mount, plastic wing mount from mellenium, and the fiberglass stick to CF and lots of motor shaft (more on the way,with prop saver , i learned this time)

but still ..need help, trying to learn this by my self, any inputs?
The roll issue is probably a C/G balance problem or the motor torque is pullling it over (prop/motor thrust angle).....decreasing the dihedral to much wihout ailerons could also contribute to the roll effect.

Here's a link that may help:......even if you've read them all.....

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70086

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Old 06-25-2014, 09:31 PM   #5
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thanks pizzano, il try to remove the plastic wing reinforcement , so the wing will follow the angle bent on the aluminium tube where the wing rods are connected
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:51 PM   #6
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It really sounds like a CG issue.

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Old 06-25-2014, 09:53 PM   #7
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Could be stalling the plane. Slowsticks fly slow, but improper cg, tail heavy especially, or too much weight can make the plane unstable or unable to pick up enough speed. If it is too much weight and tail heavy, then the plane will be nearly impossible to fly. It is important to note that a bigger pack, depending where it is installed could also cause tail heaviness.

Dihedral is important, especially on a plane with no ailerons, and even more so on a slower plane/a plane with a low rudder throw. From my understanding, rudder will decrease the lift of the main wing on the side the rudder turns to, as well as forcing the rear end to deflect to the rudder, and as such, rudder will cause banking, and the more rudder, the more it banks, like my UMX Pitts, which needs a lot of aileron and elevator to counteract the rudder, so that it can turn level. Dihedral will counteract rudder too, as when it banks, the side it banks to will gain more lift, while the side it banks away from will lose lift. If you have low dihedral, lift will not change much on either side. Likewise, say if the plane banks on its own from wind or improper trim, rudder to the opposite of the bank will lower airspeed on the higher wing, and will help leveling. If you have low rudder throw it can't help the situation. In essence, low dihedral and low rudder throw will make the plane unresponsive to unwanted banking, and hard to level in banks made by the pilot. As your rudder is the only steering in the plane, you best have a good amount of throw to it, of course with expo, so it is smoother. Ailerons clearly are more effective at banking, so if they aren't around, you have to let rudder do it all for you.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:14 AM   #8
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The roll issue is probably a C/G balance problem or the motor torque is pullling it over (prop/motor thrust angle).....decreasing the dihedral to much wihout ailerons could also contribute to the roll effect.

Here's a link that may help:......even if you've read them all.....

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70086

This was posted awhile back.....still applies.

Many of us Slow Stick vet's have flown this model with and without ailerons........with and without any motor thrust angle.......with cheap TX/RX 4ch and with Spektrum, Futaba, Airtronics, ect., 5ch & above........The vast majority of us who have not mod'ed the crap out of the thing, still find the stock 3ch (no aileron) method the most enjoyable and reliable......no TX DR/EXPO or TX programing needed.....everything can be accomplished through mechanical linkage adjustments, wing and battery placement and patients.

This plank is designed to be a slow 3ch beginner (rudder only) flying "Iron Maiden".........I've built & flown, endless hours, 4 of these.....all with different power and aero set-ups.....to this day, I still find the 3ch, brushed (or equal) brushless set-up, the most fun and less complicated beginner plank I own.........now retired as a wall ornament.

To many throw complicated and needless aspects into this simple machine.........not to say mod's aren't fun....but, it's meant to learn and teach with.....the more gadgets, the more one needs to re-define "simplistic".....the KISS method on this craft will provide many hours of training and confidence to a beginner (or even) re-fresh an old vets skills.......There are more than a thousand owner threads at several forums on the Slow Stick........it's been around for a very long time.......I'd bet my next paycheck that at the end of the day, the vast majority who still own the Stick have found the KISS method the most enjoyable......

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Old 06-25-2014, 09:59 PM   #9
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I screwed up the build of my SS and gave it too little dihedral, but that translated into almost no rudder authority. It just wouldn't turn. Constantly falling off to one side or the other has, in my experience, usually been down to tail-heavy CG.

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Old 06-25-2014, 10:12 PM   #10
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im at 2000' ft elevation high desert area and using 8x6e props drawing about 10amps.think its a factor? il also try 9.38sf props, thanks!!!
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:01 PM   #11
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Try a 9 or 10 inch prop.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:53 PM   #12
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I fly at 4500ft above sea level and i only have to pitch up one to get the exact same performance (ie 10x7 instead of 10x5). No need for a larger prop as the thrust should be sufficient. i flew my bipe with 36oz total thrust on a 50oz airframe when i was testing.the dual motor setup. a slow stick does not need anywhere near a 1:1 weight to thrust ratio to fly.

cg could be part of the issue, but i seriously doubt it makes that much differance. generally cg only effects up and down unless your cg is way off. as long as your near the first 1/3 of the wing you should be golden.another thing to consider, almost all of us that have rung a slow stick out well with a larger battery pack end up with quite a bit less dihedrial then we started.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:10 AM   #13
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The ailerons can atleast let you counter that roll
until you can get it up and trimmed out, I think
you should put them back into action if you can.

I wouldn't worry to much on the dihedral,
flat flies fine if its balanced good, not
just front to back but side to side too.

Good luck!
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:57 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by subzJC View Post
The ailerons can atleast let you counter that roll
until you can get it up and trimmed out, I think
you should put them back into action if you can.

I wouldn't worry to much on the dihedral,
flat flies fine if its balanced good, not
just front to back but side to side too.

Good luck!
A stock Slow Stick has no ailerons. 3-channel planes are absolutely dependent on dihedral angle for controllability. Too little dihedral means your rudder gives you too little roll moment. So if the wind lifts a wing you don't have the power to restore the plane to level flight--you crash. Enough dihedral is absolutely essential to getting a Slow Stick to fly right on 3-channels.
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:10 AM   #15
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Thanks guys! local hobby store is out of my way to work, i just ordered props online, and kind of windy this week. maybe i'l have another go next week. all of you made sense, appreciate the inputs.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:08 AM   #16
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One thing i was thinking about tonight. i had a hard time correcting my slow stick from rolling.after a bit of combat one day. it turned out my rudder foam was all busted up around where the.pushrod.attaches. i ended up gluing a bit of thin plywood scrap i had lying around to it and reslotted the control horn. it flew like new after.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:51 PM   #17
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Default Rudder Centering?

Sometimes the problems can be pretty simple. This might seem to obvious.
#1. Are the pushrodes binding?
#2 Is there any slop in the rudder linkage?
#3 Are the taped hinges are just a lttle stiff and not moving freely?
#4 Is the rudder is not returning to the exact center? If not this would cause the plane to roll.
#5 Is there any slop? Slowstick control horns can come loose really easy or the foam can compress. Are the holes in the control horn the correct size? Can the pushrods flex under load?

There should not be any play or binding and the rudder needs to return to center every time.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:02 AM   #18
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il re-check the cg, when i measured it, i even included the front fiberglass rod reinforcement, at 95mm. thanks again!
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Old 06-29-2014, 05:54 AM   #19
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If not cg, it leaves the lack of dihedral causing the issues. As dihedral helps level flight, and you have very little, the plane will just lean either way it wants, and without ailerons you are somewhat stuck with either increasing dihedral or adding ailerons. Ailerons will increase weight, and add more drag, as well as give you more to worry about. Not being a slowstick flier, I don't know how effective ailerons would be, but my guess is not very, so ailerons would induce wanted banking and stop unwanted, but somewhat slowly. The plane is a rudder plane, and to have the best stability, and desired rudder authority, you need dihedral. If you look at many planes, high rudder throw will cause banking due to equal airspeed over both sides of the wing and drag. Dihedral combats this by leveling off the lift on both sides (one side has lower airspeed, the other side, the wing moves up losing lift. The result is a more or less level turn. The best option is to make the simpler option, large dihedral, rudder only.

Now if cg is off, that will make matters only worse, mainly tail heaviness. A little nose heaviness won't hurt much, other than a tendency to drop faster with no throttle and climb more with throttle. Stability will remain though. This nose heaviness was one issue I had with my mini switch, and the plane always flew stable, but exhibited an annoying desire it climb a lot with thottle and in diving.
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:05 AM   #20
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I was really disapointed in my aleroins. they were basically useless without a ton of rudder.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 06-29-2014, 07:57 PM   #21
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Rolls and tail-chase'in loops are mine's fave-o-rite Thangs,
bubsteve


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Old 07-01-2014, 05:33 AM   #22
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im taking it out tomorrow.
what ive done this time is return it to the original fiberglass stick, it is lighter but shorter since the first time it crashed made it 1.5inch shorter.
also, i could not remove the center plastic wing reinforcement without ruining it(those double sided 3M tapes..) so i just reinstalled the ailerons just in-case i need it, i dont think it will be effective after reading all those threads..

also, i discovered a puncture in my 1300mah lipo..probably from my 2nd crash.
i couldnt believe i did not notice it, the shrinkwrap tend to return to shape and hide the dent and puncture. no wonder the front end of my SS smells like nail polish(not sure if thats the correct term, you know, nail paint)and i was smelling my motor bearings if it was the oil,but the whole time i couldnt put my finger on it. i discovered it when i tried to recharge it, 1cell has very high internal resistance..about 125,when the two was 15,14. should i throw it away?

im using a spare 1000mah battery that i was planning to use for my Tx and a 9x4.7 GWS SF prop..and could see and feel increased power.
btw, you think the gws prop is good enough? i was looking for a APC 9x3.7 SF but the GWS is the only available in our area right now, i ordered online but i have to wait till weekend for that(and batteries,etc..). it is really bendy and flexing so easily,i doubt it will have an effective "bite"..

anyway, wish me luck. probably will end the same way as before but im really excited on whats going to happen.
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Old 07-01-2014, 05:39 AM   #23
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Make sure to give the rudder lots of throw. With the lack of dihedral you may need it. Good throw on ailerons may help to. Of course add expo, but having high max throws could help if you find you have trouble controlling it. The prop may be less effective than APC, but should be fine.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:18 AM   #24
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Hey man, best of luck.

what I've been doing with my stock fuses is filling them with a wooden dowel and then gluing it with foam expanding glue like gorilla glue. saves from major headaches later when the fuse is all split or twisted.

slow stock prop reversal. it flies! easily! 543 watt dual motor bipe slow stick. push-me-pull-you. 242 watt 3 channel slow stick. 365 watt mini ultra stick. 415 watt mini contender. 810 watt ultra stick .25e. 220 watt alpha 450 sport (retired).
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:23 PM   #25
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Wonder what happened here. Is the problem fixed?
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