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Old 07-05-2014, 10:33 AM   #1
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Default E-Flite/Blade/Horizon Quality

I am thoroughly enjoying my UMX planes, and trying to enjoy my MCPX Bl, though find it too twitchy to learn CP flight on. My gripe is with the quality of products. My first issues was with the UMX SBach, which would lose reception randomly, resulting in essentially totaling the plane. Well Horizon sent me a new board, though I would have liked a bit more than just a board, considering the cost of repairs. I have the new board now, and just installed it, as I have all the necessary parts to rebuild the plane. It is a good thing I didn't glue everything up...the board won't bind, and I don't think it ever will. It just blinks, yet I tried rebinding the Pitts, and even the old SBach board, which do bind up to the Orange module. Then comes my MCPX BL. The original board was garbage, the heli was unable to pirouette. I complained and they suggested sending the heli in. I really don't see the point in paying for shipping to have a heli sent in for a part that I had to pay for shipping the get in the first place. As a result, I sent the board in to megasmicros to have the board repaired, would be the same price anyway. I have a new board for the heli as well, which I paid nearly $100 for. Now I am no pro at heli flight, and I do crash the MCPX BL, but the new board died on me crashing into a field of medium height grass. I am left with a board that just blinks. What is odd is that others who have this heli, including Rich, who makes the Airtime Skids, reported smashing the heli into walls, shattering the canopy, twisting everything, and I destroy the board with no real physical damage to anything other than canopy. Am I just getting bad luck here? I am really getting to be disappointed with the quality of Horizon stuff, three bad boards right from the get go, and others that died on me from impacts less severe than smashing into walls. The UMX Pitts has been my only products that has served me well with absolutely zero issues. I feel I am not getting good support either, that I have mentioned to Horizon about the issues of now three separate incidences and they do not seem to care.
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:00 PM   #2
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I would guess that if you are using an Orange Rx module (Spektrum rip-off) in a 9x radio then Horizon would have VERY limited sympathy for any problem you had binding, or with signal loss, with one of their receivers. If it's actually anything to do with the Orange module is somewhat irrelevant, you just cant really expect Horizon to offer support to someone using non-Horizon rip-off equipment... can you?


Dont get me wrong here, I'm not bashing Orange equipment. I use Orange stuff myself, and I've never had any problems with it, but if i ever did experience a problem binding between Orange and Spektrum, or if i ever had loss of signal, I wouldn't expect Horizon to offer any support whatsoever. Basically if you use non-original manufacturer equipment then warantee and customer support from the original manufacturer goes out of the window, that's something you have to accept when you choose to buy cheap
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:44 PM   #3
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Yes I am using an Orange module. This is a fact I left out for a reason. The issues however seem doubtful to be the module. I've never had issues with losing bind. My Pitts has had zero issues, so clearly a module issue is unlikely.
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Old 07-05-2014, 02:56 PM   #4
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Furthermore the first board in the mcpx BL showed there not to be an issue with the module as it malfunctioned in the gyro, causing the tail to kick any way it wanted. This new board for my SBach as shows problems immediately, besides being unable to bind, and that is erratic servo movement. An unbound plane will have no servo movement whatsoever, so clearly this board was not manufactured well at all. I love the designs of the planes and of the mcpx BL, other than my inability to fly it consistently, but the technology, while well designed, has quality control issues. As I have stated, others have smacked the heli into the ground, destroying physical parts, but a crash in the field totals the board. I must be having really bad luck. If my Pitts was having similar issues, then I would completely fault the module and buy a new one, but the Pitts is displaying that the module is not to blame.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:41 PM   #5
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Like I said, regardless of if the Orange module was actually the source of the problem (and it's impossible to rule it out) Horizon wouldn't want to know when it comes to signal loss issues or binding problems, they only provide warantee and support if their own equipment is being used. They provide no guarantee that their receivers will work with Orange modules.

FWIW tail loosing heading control and the heli generally becoming unstable is most often due to vibrations knocking out the gyro. Micro helis seem chronically prone to this. If the heli had been crashed and there is a high possibility of something being slightly bent or a bearing damaged or the blades being unbalanced, which is all it takes. Sometimes even when everything seems perfect vibrations can still cause problems on micro helis.

I've given up on small helis, they are just too fragile and temperamental, regardless of brand.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:53 PM   #6
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Well the board wasn't working, so I stopped fly. Second board, no changes in parts, no adjustment, and it works. So you learn on large helis? I've been thinking about doing so, the mcpx BL is to twitchy, pops around everywhere and if you set the throws too low you can't correct. The board is the worst part. I still don't understand how others smash the mcpx BL and keep flying it.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:00 PM   #7
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Yep, I'd advise to learn on a 500 (425mm blade) size heli after practising plenty on a sim.

In my experience anything smaller than 500 needs super human reactions to stay on top of. It's maybe an age thing but even flying 450 size I always felt like i was chasing the heli and loosing by a few fractions of a second most of the time. Every time I flew it my nerves would be jangling with the level of concentration required.

I moved up to a 500 and never looked back. I can actually enjoy flying the thing now! Bigger is even better, a 700 size is positively relaxing by comparison, but a 425mm blade 500 class heli is a good compromise between being easy to fly, not too intimidating and not costing a fortune.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
I am thoroughly enjoying my UMX planes, and trying to enjoy my MCPX Bl, though find it too twitchy to learn CP flight on. My gripe is with the quality of products. My first issues was with the UMX SBach, which would lose reception randomly, resulting in essentially totaling the plane. Well Horizon sent me a new board, though I would have liked a bit more than just a board, considering the cost of repairs. I have the new board now, and just installed it, as I have all the necessary parts to rebuild the plane. It is a good thing I didn't glue everything up...the board won't bind, and I don't think it ever will. It just blinks, yet I tried rebinding the Pitts, and even the old SBach board, which do bind up to the Orange module. Then comes my MCPX BL. The original board was garbage, the heli was unable to pirouette. I complained and they suggested sending the heli in. I really don't see the point in paying for shipping to have a heli sent in for a part that I had to pay for shipping the get in the first place. As a result, I sent the board in to megasmicros to have the board repaired, would be the same price anyway. I have a new board for the heli as well, which I paid nearly $100 for. Now I am no pro at heli flight, and I do crash the MCPX BL, but the new board died on me crashing into a field of medium height grass. I am left with a board that just blinks. What is odd is that others who have this heli, including Rich, who makes the Airtime Skids, reported smashing the heli into walls, shattering the canopy, twisting everything, and I destroy the board with no real physical damage to anything other than canopy. Am I just getting bad luck here? I am really getting to be disappointed with the quality of Horizon stuff, three bad boards right from the get go, and others that died on me from impacts less severe than smashing into walls. The UMX Pitts has been my only products that has served me well with absolutely zero issues. I feel I am not getting good support either, that I have mentioned to Horizon about the issues of now three separate incidences and they do not seem to care.
I have many flying buddies (as well as myself) who own or have owned several of the micro Blade heli's and UMX planes........most have not even considered using anything but Spektrum RX's/TX's. Not to say that the cheapie orange or lemon RX's do not function well, it's just OUR personal preference to stick with what the craft was designed to use.

As for micro-chip boards......I've also known guys who have beat the heck out of their little crafts without any board failures (+95%), and I've known a few who just looked wrong at the craft and had problems (+5%)....keep in mind, these little micro's are generally very durable mainly because of their weight.........but they are also fragile due to the size and do require a bit of "tweeking" from time to time, regardless how they are flown....!

Like many guys in this hobby, what they "remember" about a crash and tell others, is most often missing a few specific details related to the actual event.....even the pilots may not know for sure what the real problem is or was (especially the dumb thumb events)....it seems just to be human nature.......But, as for the quality of the Blade products or Horizon service & response, most who have dealt with both have nothing but good things to relate.

Like JPF eluded to, it's a tough sell trying to convince other's that a product has issues when the product has been modified, abused, or the pilot potentially lacks the appropriate skills......especially regarding a product or distributor who's history has been very solid...!

More than likely, the problems are related to one of the aforementioned issues.......but there is always that (+5%) possiblilty one may have purchased a product that slipped through the manufactures/distributors QA/QC process........

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Old 07-05-2014, 04:27 PM   #9
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Well the destruction of the boards wouldn't have happened if I could fly the mcpx, but it seems I just hit the board the right way. None of my products have been modded other than the orange module. This module has zero issues with the Pitts, it's in bind every time, never loses reception. Not quite sure how the module could be blamed if the Pitts works. The mcpx BL (before crash) also worked perfectly fine. I am not blaming horizon for the mcpx board, as I crashed it while I was in control. It is a bit weak maybe; others have stated that the soldering is something that can be improved, but it was my error that caused the board to die. My main issue is with the SBach, and how a brand new, in the package board is no good.
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:46 PM   #10
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I do like the products from horizon, and I feel they provide some of the best products. I enjoy flying my UMX planes. The mcpx...well that was a mistake. It was suggested that route for a first cp and it wasn't the best decision.
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Old 07-05-2014, 07:23 PM   #11
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You could be on to something.......I believe it was mentioned previously regarding the learning curve related to CCP's.....size, FBL/Flybar, previous experience.....

To learn on "inexpensively":

Size = 200 to 300 min.

FBL = More maintenance with flybar, but the flybar is easier to learn on and mech. adjust.

Previous Experience = Serious plank flight only gives one +40% of the tools needed to fly any heli.....add coxial another 20%, still down to an additional "flight tool" need of 40%.......which most get from a SIM or learn the hard way.....(a few might have a buddy that saves time and frustration).....But, still the number 1 reason (in most cases) for the "price/time it takes" learning, is not pilot skills/tools, it's acquiring the proper craft to learn on in order to gain the skills/tools....!

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Old 07-05-2014, 08:18 PM   #12
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Simulator, a 450 plus sized heli is easy for me, unless I try random things, but normal and inverted I can do. If I use a small heli in the sim, it feels twitchy, but the main issue is seeing a small heli on a very small screen, where a 450 looks the same size as my mcpx BL. Guess I was steered wrong. I thought to myself that larger should be more stable, less twitchy, but I was told on helifreak that the mcpxbl was that best choice. Sure it's moving parts take more abuse, but if the board can't follow that trait, it's not really more durable. This I don't blame horizon for, but the boards for my planes, quality control should be a little better I feel.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:26 AM   #13
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I don't even know what happened, but the board is working now, I came home, and decided to give it one last try and the solid light came on. I spent an hour and a half last night trying to bind the new board, and nothing changed today, same battery, same module, same area, and outside of the plane at all times. Weird things seem to happen to me. Today it took an hour to get the ailerons moving in opposite directions. I followed the directions, unsure of whether to have both ailerons plugged in, one aileron plug in, etc. I kept getting either one aileron moving or both moving in the same direction. I kept unplugging things, and finally it just started working...not sure what I did exactly, but the process was nothing nearly as easy as the directions.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:22 AM   #14
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I've been looking at the Blade 200 SR X heli. I gave up on heli's a couple years ago because I just couldn't get the orientations down. the new 200 has the 3 mode thing going on....might get me back into heli's.

nothing to it, but to do it !
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:50 AM   #15
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I was initially going to order a 130x Red Bull, as it was stated that it is more scale flight...to me that means more docile, but who knows. I am cancelling that order now, Great Hobbies is usually pretty good with cancellation and combining orders. I now am ordering the new Blade 450x, as truthfully, anything more than 450 is way too much. The new 450x is supposedly 100 dollars cheaper than the old one on Great Hobbies, so I am willing to wait until stock comes in, if it is in fact true. If it is a mistake and the old one is cheaper, I'll get the older one. Either one I can see being a lot more stable than this MCPX BL.

I've seen that Blade 200 SR, seems like a nice heli, a much better size than the MCPX BL, and as such, orientation would be much easier. Orientation hasn't been my issue however, although I advise against the web-like polymer canopy for the MCPX BL, for it quickly looks like no canopy, which quickly leads too a crash. My main issues is how the MCPX BL just wants to go everywhere, especially in pirouettes. You try a pirouette to the right and sudden the whole heli is going 100mph to the right, or backwards. I understand no piro compensation, but come on, it can't hold a pirouette a bit better than that? On top of that, if you put too low of throws to make it smooth, and the heli happens to feel the need to veer to the side, you don't have enough opposite throw to combat it. Increase the throws to help this, and then it just pops around everywhere. I don't know why I went with the heli...should have just had my plane mentality going: A larger plane is easier to fly, so a larger heli must be as well.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:45 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
I was initially going to order a 130x Red Bull, as it was stated that it is more scale flight...to me that means more docile, but who knows. I am cancelling that order now, Great Hobbies is usually pretty good with cancellation and combining orders. I now am ordering the new Blade 450x, as truthfully, anything more than 450 is way too much.

You did right to cancel the 130x Red Bull. By scale flight they just mean it has less performance, that doesn't make it easier to fly. I have the standard 130x and it's a handful and I have all sorts of problems with vibrations knocking out the gyro.

As for anything over 450 being 'way too much'... way too much what? You could pick up a good 500 on eBay or in the 'for sale' at Helifreak for much less than the cost of a new 450, even on new price the 500x is only $100 more than the 450x. They are a lot easier to fly.
But anyway, the 450 is a lot bigger than a micro so maybe you will notice a huge difference. I can fly a 450 ok but I just feel like i'm chasing the heli all the time, whereas with 500's and up I'm ahead of the heli. Your results may of course differ.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:12 AM   #17
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I'm somewhat skeptical of used stuff, especially heli. A plane, well it's easy to see an issue, a weak control horn, bent motor shaft, but a heli, so much more to be misaligned, broken. As for the price, all I see is the 550x without ESC, so that adds up, and I would need a 6s rather than a 3s, and I know I'll be using more than one pack, and I happen to be in the realm of 3s for...actually for every plane I have, except UMX stuff. Considering I can actually fly the MCPX BL back and forth, and do a few loops, I'm sure the 450 will help me a lot, so I can actually learn steady control. That piro comp is clearly needed, as I have to take the MCPX up high just so when I pirouette left or right into the ground. It sounds nice to be able to go forward, go to a hover and actually pirouette with less worries.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:19 AM   #18
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Yikes, the new one is out in early October, not sure if I should wait that long.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:33 AM   #19
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Blade 500x BNF: http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/D...ProdID=BLH4080

If you are patient you can find some excellent second hand buys. My big helis were all 'second hand' but all were either unbuilt in the box, or part built but unflown. Basically brand new but around 2/3 or less of new price.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:47 PM   #20
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Default E-Flite/Blade/Horizon Quality

Still seems to be 6s. I'll see how the 450 goes


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Old 07-06-2014, 11:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
Still seems to be 6s. I'll see how the 450 goes
Yeah, even the new 450 size helis are 6s these days. 6s is nothing to be scared of.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:42 PM   #22
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If I was in the market today for a 450 CCP........:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...-x-bnf-BLH4380

It may well be the one the OP has in mind....very Trex like in mechanical equipment....(I've always used T-REX as the standard, since they have and still provide the best quality/reliability/service bang for the buck.......been one, if not the most, reliable 450 to 550 CCP's ever made and probably the oldest top 5 still in existence).

The fact that the Blade is a 3s, with Horizon stabilization....and a highly recommended RX Spektrum RX 7200BX 7ch DSMX.........may be a good choice for a pilot with better than intermediate skills (gained from other than SIM, micro-mini heli's)........she'll be very quick (fast to most), agile in probably every flight mode and (needless to say) stable.....

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Old 07-07-2014, 12:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
If I was in the market today for a 450 CCP........:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...-x-bnf-BLH4380

It may well be the one the OP has in mind....very Trex like in mechanical equipment....(I've always used T-REX as the standard, since they have and still provide the best quality/reliability/service bang for the buck.......been one, if not the most, reliable 450 to 550 CCP's ever made and probably the oldest top 5 still in existence).

The fact that the Blade is a 3s, with Horizon stabilization....and a highly recommended RX Spektrum RX 7200BX 7ch DSMX.........may be a good choice for a pilot with better than intermediate skills (gained from other than SIM, micro-mini heli's)........she'll be very quick (fast to most), agile in probably every flight mode and (needless to say) stable.....
So Trex is the best, but apparently have the worst customer service according to some. You say this 450 is best for better than intermediate, which is gained from other than sims and micros...well what is this skill from if not from sims and helis. From what I read, pretty much nothing really trains you for cp flight. I have to start somewhere with it, and the mcpx isn't letting me start where I want.
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:53 AM   #24
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Just trying to provide some valuable information, based on 7 years of CCP build/flight/mentoring experience.....in the hope that you'll still be in the heli game 9 months from now.....(the time it takes to give birth). And that's only the beginning........!

Seems the info being provided (previously as well) is not hitting home.........many points are being ignored or just over-looked.......quite typical of many who let the heart and confidence overtake praticality and economy, as in time it takes to learn, cost associated with the learning (not just the $$$), and the generally accepted (amongst serious heli fliers) steps to sucess without the overwhelming aspects of frustration everyone experiences that takes the "fast lane" to the destination in a Porsche/Ferrari having never been instructed or driven in such......

I'm bowing out of this discussion, but will leave a link I used in the past while learning and refer those that I mentor to:

http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/

I hope the challenge your'e about to undertake is rewarding.......doesn't leave a bad taste like the micro heli experience has (based on the questioning of Blade quality) rather than the possible lack of proper learning tools (almost anyone with plank experience and a little SIM time) can fly a 450 CCP on a SIM...it's not even 10% of the reality in REAL time, more discipline and less overconfidence.....all of which have chased more away from the sport rather than retained.

Best of luck to ya thepiper92..........hope to see some vid too!

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Old 07-06-2014, 11:57 PM   #25
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Not scared of 6s, but to use it I would need a bigger charger to charge fast, and I have a number of 2200 3s and 3300 3s batteries, thought not sure if 3300 would fit, but I can hope. Even the upcoming 450x is still 3s, so in the long run, even tho that 500 is a decent price, the cost of getting 3-4 6s packs and a better charger would be more than the 450 by a long shot. I'm sure the 450 will do fine for me. I'm a fast learner, quick at the sticks, just the mcpx BL is not suited at all to beginner and I have to learn it all of a more stable, accurate heli before stepping up to the mcpx BL. I feel that I must be able to throw the 450 around before I can have confidence with the mcpx BL. Sure it can take damage on the blades, and frame, but having a board go within a few flights, or the tail motor quitting on me, it shows durability isn't that great. I can fly a heli I the sim with zero issues, so basic flight with the 450 should be not too difficult. If I do crash, it will be blades or frame parts, all of which are much much cheaper than repairing a $100 board on a tiny heli. It is so difficult getting the right guidance towards helis. On helifreak everyone said the mcpx BL, then some said the nano, then some said mcpx v2, which isn't around anymore unless its used or maybe on eBay, which I don't trust too much. All of these suggestions steered me in the wrong direction and I don't understand the mindset vs planes; a bigger plane will crash harder vs a small plane, but it's is best to learn on a larger on, so why this same mentality isn't with helis. Even Rich at airtime suggests a small heli, as he is afraid to take up a larger one in the air. He also says he smacks up the smaller ones, and I feel this is due to difficulty in flying smaller ones, not because the skill isn't there; you can't get better if you crash every minute because a heli zooms where ever it wants. You need a heli that can be tame if you set it that way, and can pirouette on the spot if you want it to. I'm not afraid to fly a bigger heli, as I am not with planes as well. In fact I feel more comfortable that I can take off a field, not have wind throwing me around and fly with something not as sensitive
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