Extra 300 combo on its way

[loadmstr]

plane #3

Extreme Flight
Extra 300 Brushless Combo
35 Amp AirBoss
APC 12X 6E propeller
Spektrum 2.4 GHz DSM 6

looking to get a few batteries for it 2 (I always hate charging)
any advice on lipo to fit this thing and a good multi battery charger. I've had a freedom flyer and a super cub so the third plane is pretty ambitious for me. Actually, I and my friends are greatly anticipating my first crash. I looked at alot of plane types and they just seemed too small or not scale looking enough. I've seen alot of good reviews for this plane, all good. I haven't seen any setups that use the DX6 with it. But, I'm up for the experiment. Am I setting myself up for failure?

[Solid Hit]

That is a HUGE departure from what you are flying and an expensive plane to watch it crash. It might be better to put one more plane in there before the Extra. Something like the Ultra Mini Stick. A great aerobatic trainer.

In any case, on any new plane I fly, I set my expo and D/R low until I get used to the plane and my ability to fly it. I hate setting myself up for failure for the sake of ego (yet it still happens from time to time)!

[loadmstr]

So I'm having good luck with the planes I've been flying. The investment is a big deal for me. Is it that much different? I just want something I can slowly break myself into. Are these type aircraft a lot harder to fly? I don’t intend to try any acrobatic maneuvers at first. I’m hoping with the dx’s channel mixing and my extremely careful flying I could keep it intact. However, if this thing going to fly like brick or worse in a constant state of controlled crashing I would be more interested in shelving it for a few months and going to an intermediate aircraft.

[Solid Hit]

There are a lot of fliers who will say if you are careful you may be able to fly the Extra. There are lot of "ifs" in there. The Extra is a nice plane but you have to fly it not steer it around the sky like the planes you have. If you point it right it stays right until you tell it left. It is not that it is quirky but it is precise.

The MUS is similar but a LOT more forgiving. It will perform any aerobatic move you may want to practice and learn but you will have some time to recover. The Extra, even if flown slower then wot, is designed to be a pro performer. You can get into trouble with both planes but you stand a better chance of recovery with the MUS.

The MUS is designed to be the transitional plane on the way to the Extra.

[loadmstr]

Okay, sigh... I think you may be right. I'm an USAF Avionics/Guidance and Control mechanic and I love the cool look of the extreme and will have a blast putting it together. The MUS seems to deserve its ugly stick moniker. I keep looking for something that lives up to its rep without its ahhh unique style. Any suggestions? I'll use the dx and the servo's I've ordered. I think the Torque 2818/900 is too big a motor for any of the mini's so it will have to sit on the shelf until I feel better about not crashing the extra. They sell the MUS locally and my buddy valen has one already. Its tricks and power were what inspired me to move to the better flying aircraft. I'll have to do some more research about other parts that will work for both planes. Thanks

[Solid Hit]

I know how you feel. My UMS just flies too beautifully to sell but I have to think of it as a tool not a sharp, scale plane. Look into the Hyperion Cap 232.

BTW they make an Ultra Stick 25 which is a size up from the MUS.

[loadmstr]

So last Question can I use the parts I already ordered

Prop: 12X 6E

35 amp Airboss ESC

Motor: Torque 2818-900 388 Watt brushless motor
Windings: 18Turns
RPM/V (KV): 900
Idle Current (RI): 0.045
IO (@8.4V):A 1.08
Weight: 3.66 oz 104 G
Suggested Pack:3 Cell
Constant Amps 25
Peak Amps (15 Sec): 35
Suggested Prop: APC 11*5.5 (conservative)
12*6E Performance
Shaft size 5mm
Peak Watts: 388

In place of the recommended Hardware for the ultra stick 25's recommended equipment?

Prop: 12X 6E (11x7E for E-flight power 32 option)

ECS: 40-45A Brushless

MotorE-flite Power 25 BL Outrunner Motor, 870Kv shown (E-flite Power 32 option)
Size: Replacement for 25-size glow engine
Bearings: Ball bearings
Wire Gauge: 14
Prop Range: 11x8 to 14x10
Voltage: 12 - 16.8
RPM/Volt(Kv): 870
Resistance (Ri): 0.03 ohms
Idle Current (lo): 2.4A at 10V
Continuous Current: 32A
Max Burst Current: 44A for 30 sec
Cells: 10-14 Ni-Mh/Ni-Cd or 3-4S Li-Po
Speed Control: 40A to 45A brushless
Weight: 190g (6.7 oz)
Overall Diameter: 35mm (1.4 in)
Shaft Diameter: 5mm (0.2 in)
Overall Length: 54mm (2.1 in)

Is the wieght and balance going to suffer or power. These motor ratings are really scewing up my day argggg. Let me know please, you've been a great help

[Solid Hit]

I'm not familiar with the brand of the motor but rule of thumb is 100 watts per pound for nice aerobatics and 150 watts for 3D so at the ratings of the motor you are good for a 3 1/2 pound plane to just do some simple stuff. Keep in mind that the simple stuff is plenty for now. I'm talking inverted, split "s", spins, rolls, etc.

I did a fast goggle on the e-flight motor and it claims up to 550 watts so with the flying weight of the US25 at 3.5 lb, I think you may be marginal on the power for everything the MS25 is capable of. You may have to cruise her at better then 3/4 throttle to do your aerobatics. If that is what you have then I would use it just being mindful of the power limitation. If you haven't bought it yet then I would get the recommended setup for the US25.

They are different planes and as such their requirements are different.

[debhicks]

Always remember this, the plane looks good on the ground only, what it looks like in the air is totally the pilot on the sticks. Good luck and remember one last thing, young tagawan, coming from a seasoned retired military person.....Good thing always come to those who wait.

[loadmstr]

Okay, I took everyone's advice and I did end up going with the ultra stick 25. It's a good looking plane and I get to like its looks more and more each day. Thanks for your opinions they helped alot in making my first crash less tramatic, lol. I did a little bit of damage and was able to use the opportunity to do some balsa wood construction/repairs. I also took the time to buy realflight G3 and it improved my skills 3 fold..... The 300 will be here this week and I'll fly it this spring. See ya all and thanks again.

[Solid Hit]

Whoa!!! What crash? How many times have you flown it now and what happened to need a repair?

What power system did you eventually go with?? ...

[loadmstr]

I bought an Ultra 25 with an eflight 25 motor. I went to the local flying club and only nosed it in on the first flight. I broke the motor mount and some minor damage to the body. I was able to repair it by buying a second Ultra 25 and duplicating the nose offsets in light weight spruce. It took a few nights but I found it was actually pretty fun. The repair looks good from the "3 foot away" rule. All said I've made about 50 or so take offs and landings and I try I few tricks now and again. I now have a second replacement plane in case the unthinkable happens. I will put the Extra together this winter and maiden it this next spring.

[Tshulthise]

I just took my new EF Extra 300 for its first flight last week. I bought the combo kit and a Spektrum DX6 radio from Chris at Extreme Flight. Previously I'd not flown anything beyond a trainer butI found the Extra very easy to fly after I got the trims set. I will say that the first two flights had my brain going at around 90% capacity since I wasn't used to a plane that doesn't self correct but it didn't take long to pick up on. Just get it up to a couple hundred feet then trim it out and keep it at 1/3 throttle after you level out until you get comfortable with the feel. Here's what I'd suggest for your first flight...

Set the low rate control surface movements to around 1/4" each direction or maybe a little less for elevator. I think I put in around 75% exponential and I coupled the rudder to the ailerons which made things turns a little more natural for someone used to a high or dehidral wing plane. If you are interested I can give you all the DX6 settings that I'm using. The only thing that I need to change is to remove some of the up elevator because at full up elevator (low rates) the plane can get into a tip stall which can be a big problem if you don't realize what's happening quick enough since the plane flips sideways quickly. I can do outside loops with full down elevator with no stalling tendencies at all. I'm not sure why inside loops are different but they are. The DX6 lets you set travel limits in independently in each direction for each channel so having less up elevator than down is easy to do.

The plane won't taxi on normal grass even without the wheel pants (normal grass = like what most people cut their yards 2" tall or so). I fly at my parents property so I don't have the option of landing on a close cut surface. I hand launch the plane at full throttle. For landings I use the flaperon setup and put about 3/16" down flaps to bring the plane in very slow and just drop it down. I can usually drop it within 10 feet of where I'm standing. The plane will tip up on the nose but it won't flip over like it would if I tried a hot landing without flaps. One warning... if you use flaps you need to make sure you mix in about 20% down elevator and keep the nose down. If you pull it up you will loose energy and drop it in unless you apply a lot of throttle to come around for another pass. I dropped it in from about 2' once and that was enough to crack the plate that the landing gear mounts to. I'd suggest reinforcing that area since its not really designed for the loads you will get by a hard landing. The plane is very stable though and when you apply a lot of throttle it doesn't take much to keep it straight as you head around for another pass. With the flaps down the plane climbs very quickly... probably 100 feet in just a few seconds. Landing without flaps is easier and can still be done without flipping the plane but in my opinion its riskier in less than very short grass. I was somewhat concerned that using flaps might make the plane easy to tip stall so I tried some 50' passes and weaved back and forth at slow speed to see if it was stable with flaps on. The plane didn't fall off even at slow speeds in turns with flaps on. It is a bit less stable so you have to spend more time correcting ailerons and elevator with the flaps on but it didn't drop a wing even during some slalom type turns at low speeds so I didn't worry about it after that.

One thing that was very different about this plane than gas trainers I've flown is how fast it can loose energy. In a glide with no power it will drop like a rock. I guess that's because its drag to weight ratio is relatively high. What this means is you can't cut the power and glide in from way out like you can with a heavy plane. You gotta keep some power to it until you get close.

I couldn't resist the temptation to try the plane on high rates so on my second flight I flipped the switch and went crazy with the ailerons. I'd suggest waiting until you are very comfortable with the plane before you do this. Flying with dual rates (I'd not done this before) had many surprises the first time. The worst thing is giving it too much elevator and tip stalling then trying to recover and rolling the plane then stalling again... you get the picture. The best way to do it is to keep a finger on the rate switch and turn it down to low before trying to correct if the plane gets out of whack. That works well.

The Spektrum DX6 is an awesome radio for the price. After you go through the manual and play with all the functions its pretty intuitive to make adjustments. It takes an hour or two of playing with it to get a good feel for where everything is and how the logic works. I really like the fact that you can use "subtrims" to zero all of the control surfaces. This means you can zero the control surfaces using the radio after you trim the plane instead of having to adjust linkages (assuming you aren't too far off). Expo and dual rates are great and the flaperons are fun. I'm thinking I could make the plane do some interesting things with the flaperons. I might experiment sometime with them set at a very high pitch to see what happens. I'll do this at a high altitude and slow speed of course. Just a flip of a switch and you are back to normal.

The EF Extra 300 is a lot of fun to fly. Be prepared to spend some time relaxing between flights after the first few flights. It takes a lot of concentration and you will be stressed after the first few flights. After you get more used to it then you will start to appreciate the capabilities more and more. Being able to fly straight up and just point and shoot the plane in any direction and in any orientation is a lot of fun. Aileron rolls at 4 turns per second is fun to do and see too. The 3D stuff is much harder than it looks. I've tried it at around 100 feet a couple times with just a few seconds of hovering before it falls out but I only have around 8 flights on the plane so far so I have a lot of learnin to do still.

[Rugar]

Tshulthise,
Welcome to WattFlyer!
What a outstanding first post. Looking forward to seeing more posts from you.

[Tshulthise]

Thanks for the nice welcome. I've been flying planes off and on for 20 years (I'm 41 years old now) but other than relating my Extra 300 experience from a 3D novice perspective I probably won't have much more to add. I think forums are a great way to share info though and I'm looking forward to learning from you guys.

I flew the plane a couple more times today. The wind was gusting up to around 20mph so I kept it high only did 4 or 5 landings. Having the extreme power is really helpful to pull the plane out if it gets in trouble in turbulence or winds. I tried just holding the plane by the body and letting it go at a 45 degree angle and it launched fine that way. That tickles me for some reason... having that kind of power.

In higher winds the flaps were not helpful and it was easier to land the plane without them since the wind was slowing it down plenty. The more I get used to the plane the less I like using the flaps. I tried one hot landing to see if it would be easier in the wind and the landing gear support cracked. The crack came from the grass grabbing the wheels and pulling the gear back. I epoxied in a support piece to shore up that area. The plane is really meant for short grass or paved runways. I could put some big foam wheels on it but that just doesn't seem right for this plane.

I flew again tonight and there was zero wind or turbulence. I was amazed how stable the plane is at slow speeds. I was flying within a 300'x600' area with no problem about 10 feet off the ground and at very low throttle. You just have to be really careful to keep the energy up so the plane doesn't stall. I've been flying the www.readytoflyfun.com Predator (a very simple little park flyer) with a LiPo battery for the past couple years and the Extra was almost as stable with no wind or turbulence as the Predator. The EXTRA doesn't self correct at all but it is very stable, smooth and predictable.

I still have a few issues to work out on the plane. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

1. I still get some right roll when I apply much up elevator. (I think its right roll... I can't remember which way for sure) I'm not sure if its the elevator flexing on one side or if its something else. I need to investigate to figure it out. I did install the carbon fiber elevator support supplied in the kit so hopefully that's not it. I don't get this effect on outside loops... only on inside loops.
2. The plane trims out with about 1/16" right roll aileron and 1/16" right turn rudder. I added a 4" screw to the right wing tip to see if maybe it was not balanced left to right and it didn't change anything. I'm wondering if one or more of the control surfaces may not be striaight. I hope that's not the case. Its probably something I've done wrong.
3. I need to mix the elevator with the rudder to be able to hold a knife edge for more than 5 seconds without my thumbs getting confused. I can't remember which way it pulls now but I have to apply elevator to keep it going straight.
4. Right now I have ailerons and elevator both on the same rate switch. Its much easier to fly with sensitive ailerons than with a sensitive elevator so I might put them on seperate switches so I can turn them on and off seperately.
5. It seems that I may be getting some other couplings but I haven't concentrated enough on them to know what is affecting what. Back to #1... I think I may need to do an aileron/elevator mix to get rid of that. I'm not sure what other mixes I might need. I've never had a plane that required it before.
6. I got a little too cocky and was doing a lot of combinations of manuvers at 50' and almost lost it once today. It took me about 2 hours for the nerves to get back to normal after that one. Tonight I got into some sort of orientation that wasn't easy to recover from and got another shot of adrenaline. Moral of the story... do your stunts up high until you get your brain stem trained to fly the plane in any orientation without thiniking about it.

I really like the power of this plane. It makes me want to go brushless on my predator. I'd also like to add a servo and a mount for my digital camera to take videos and pics. I did that years ago with film cameras and it was a lot of fun to see what things looked like from up there. Digital will be even better since its free and quick to process.

Let me know if any of you have thoughts on the issues I listed above.

Thanks,
Tony

[Tshulthise]

Finished the landing gear off today. It really doesn't take much at all to take it out. I didn't even think the landing was bad but it was enough to crack the front. I reinforced the rear yesterday. If you buy this plane I highly recommend reinforcing the landing gear mounting area front and rear. I've never taken the gear out on a plane before and these landings weren't very hard at all. I guess its part of keeping the plane very lightweight but I can't imagine anyone not cracking this gear mounting area eventually.

I just left the gear off and the plane flys better without it and landings are fine. I was worried that the prop would snag but it comes right around no problem. It probably wouldn't be hard to make a setup so that the landing gear could be snapped in and out so you could use it on fields with short grass.

The original post asked about LiPo's... I'm using the Thunder Power 3 cell 2100mAh battery and I get from 10-15 minutes of flying depending on how hard I fly the plane. I use the Hobico Accu-Cycle Elite and can charge both batteries at once in around an hour and fifteen minutes or so from a wall plug or a car battery. The charger comes with a 120VAC power supply and battery terminal clips.

[Michaelvg11]

Wow! The extra sounds like a lot of fun. I currently fly a Glow Fuel Cap 232 and a Fliton Mini Inspire for fun. Looking forward to receiving the Extra.
BTW:
IS the Extreme Flight recommended set up powerful enough for it or is there a better setup?

What is everyones opinions on Batteries? I am still very new to electric and my first setup was in the inspire. I just defaulted to E-flite everything they recommend. I don't know much about matching the right setup for the planes yet.
Thanks