Foamy profile - motor & Rx question

[Mysterious]

Hi,
I'm looking into getting a profile foamy as my 2nd plane... miniSteve suggested getting ones from rcfoam which look like good ideas... I like these 2... I'm leaning towards the yak 54

edge 540
http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?targe...ategory_id=102

yak 54
http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?targe...ategory_id=102


1) My friend suggested I think about upgrading the motor in my Funtana 300 to something more powerful to allow for better 3D aerobatics (it has an E-Flite Park 300 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 1380 kV) and then put that Park 300 on my new profile foamy. I flew the Funtana last summer a handful of times and it has some good power but admittedly I kind of expected more power/pop... I think to do something like a torque roll it'd be underpowered, or you'd have to go nearly full throttle to maintain it. I'm not to that skill level yet but I think more power would help.

I don't understand motors very well yet though. Anyone know if that'd be a good idea to put the Park 300 on the profile and then get a more powerful motor for the Funtana? If yes, what would be a suitable more powerful motor for the Funtana??



2) I need to buy another Rx for the profile foamy... I was going to get another Futaba R617FS... it weighs 0.33oz (9.32 g) ... that'd still be ok to use, right?

[Mysterious]

Anyone comment on suggested motors?

[smokejohnson]

I don't know much about the E-Flite motors but the Futaba receiver would work fine.

[Mysterious]

thks for the Rx answer...
*****

E-flite motor chart...
http://e-fliterc.com/Products/Motors.aspx

This is my Funtana 300 current motor....
http://e-fliterc.com/Products/Defaul...rodID=EFLM1150

Someone in the motor thread more watts generally equals more power... is that accurate? The 300 motor is 85w... the 370w 1360kv is 150w.... would that mean its nearly double the power?

[CHELLIE]

Hi Mysterious that motor you showed is only about 85 watts, you need MORE POWER for the funtana Ok lets Go Shopping at Heads Up Rc lets see what Jeff has, it will be a lot less money too than a E Flite motor, and its all you need for a foamie Ok Use the Park 300 brushless on the profiles with a 8X3.8 e prop and a 1300mah 3 cell lipo 20C or there abouts, and a 20+Amp ESC, since you already have the motor and it will work great for a profile, now for the funtana

funtana Motor 2830-09 dont forget to order the X motor mount from Jeff for this motor, Jeff also has different motor mounts for this motor, and get a 40 amp ESC, yes i said 40 amp it willl work great, it wont get hot on you, and you can use it on future build, like the one I am going to send you the motor when proped with the right Prop is only going to draw X amount of AMPs, so your not going to hurt the motor, esc or Lipo using a 40 amp ESC, just make sure to use the proper props with this motor, and use the info from heads up Rc web page on prop recomendations on the motor, and you will be fine.

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...lectric/Detail

1300mah 3 cell lipo

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...1300mah/Detail

or 1650 mah 3 cell lipo 20C , if you want more flight time
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...1650mah/Detail


and get the 40 amp esc, its on sale
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...-40-Amp/Detail

and use a 9x6 e prop
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...TP--9-x/Detail

or a 10x7 e prop









Park 300 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 1380Kv Product Specifications
Type:Brushless outrunnerSize:180/280 replacementBearings or Bushings:Ball bearingsRecommended Prop Range:6x5 to 8x3.8 (3-cells) or up to 10x3.8 (2-cells) - Slow FlyerVoltage:7.2–11.1VRPM/Volt (Kv):1380Resistance (Ri):.33 ohmsIdle Current (Io):.40A @ 8VContinuous Current:7AMaximum Burst Current:9A (15 sec)Cells:6–8 Ni-Cd/Ni-MH or 2–3S Li-PoSpeed Control:8–10A brushlessWeight:24 g (.8 oz)Overall Diameter:28mm (1.10 in)Shaft Diameter:3.17mm (1/8 in)Overall Length:22mm (.90 in)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++

2830-09 Outrunner Brushless Electric Motor

2830-09 Outrunner Brushless Electric Motor
The 2830-09 is a high quality direct drive outrunner brushless motor capable of producing 27 oz of thrust using an 11 inch prop. This is a 400 class 850KV brushless motor that is .3 ounce lighter than a 350 brushed/geared motor, but provides almost twice the thrust! It is also lighter and more powerful than the 2410-09Y, and works well with the same size props. It's a good choice for small to medium size parkflyers, and will give you nice long flight times due to it's high efficiency.
I have the 2830-09 installed on a MS Composite Blade Dancer, and it flies the model extremely well. I'm not very good at 3D maneuvers, but I love to fly basic aerobatics, and to have a little speed if I want it, so I use the GWS 1170 prop and the 11.1v 1650 20C Lipo. The Blade Dancer easily climbs straight up with this power set up, and bystanders love watching this aerobatic plane.
Good prop choices for the 2830-09 are the GWS EP1147 or TP 11x5.5E for slow fliers and 3D planes, and the GWS EP1170 for medium to high speed sport planes. This motor also provides good performance with 10 inch props, as can be seen in the prop data provided below, and the motor will run a little cooler as well. For a little lighter set up on the Blade Dancer, try the GWS EP1060 prop and the Power Up 11.1v 1300 20C Lipo
Good battery choices for the 2830-09 are the Power Up 11.1v 1000 20C, 11.1v 1300 20C, 11.1v 1650 20C and 11.1v 2250 20C Lipos.
I recommend using the Power Up 20A or Power Up 32A ESC with the 2830-09.
If you need a brushless motor that is the same size and weight, but uses smaller propellers, please check out the 2830-10.

The 2830-09 comes with 3.5mm male connectors installed, and female connectors and shrink tube are included.
MOUNTING OPTIONS: The 2830-09can be mounted on the front or back of the GWS Plastic or GWS Metal Outrunner Mounts, making it a drop-in fit for many planes with 10mm sticks. It can also be mounted behind a firewall, using a 3.17mm (1/8") prop adapter to mount a prop on the motor shaft, and it can be mounted in front of a firewall using the 2800 series 'X' mount and the 2800 series rotor end prop adapter. The pictures below are for reference only. Accessories must be purchased separately.

Propeller test data for the 2830-09:

TP 11 x 3.8SF: 27 oz thrust at 12.5 amps with a pitch speed of 23 mph.
APC 11 x 4.7: 27 oz thrust at 13.5 amps with a pitch speed of 25 mph.
GWS EP1147: 28 oz thrust at 14 amps with a pitch speed of 26 mph.
TP 11 x 5.5E: 27 oz thrust at 12.5 amps with a pitch speed of 33 mph.
APC 11 x 5.5E: 27 oz thrust at 12.5 amps with a pitch speed of 33 mph.
GWS EP1170: 27 oz thrust at 13.5 amps with a pitch speed of 39 mph.

APC 10 x 4.7SF: 25 oz thrust at 12.5 amps with a pitch speed of 28 mph.
GWS EP1047: 26 oz thrust at 13 amps with a pitch speed of 28 mph.
TP 10 x 5E: 24 oz thrust at 11 amps with a pitch speed of 34 mph.
APC 10 x 5E: 24 oz thrust at 11 amps with a pitch speed of 34 mph.
GWS EP1060:24 ounces of thrust at 11 amps with a pitch speed of 41 mph.
APC 10 x 7E: 24 oz thrust at 12.5 amps with a pitch speed of 43 mph.
TP 9 x 6: 21 oz thrust at 9.5 amps with a pitch speed of 43 mph.
The above data is a result of my own testing using a fully charged 3-cell 2250mah 20C (45 amp) Lipo battery. Thrust and amp draw may be less with the use of batteries rated at lower amp output, and slightly more using batteries rated for higher amp output.

2830-09 Specifications:
Weight = 1.9 ounces (54 grams)
Diameter = 1.1 inch (28 mm)
Motor length = 1.2 inch (30 mm)
Shaft = 1/8 inch x 0.5 inch (3.17mm x 13 mm)
Voltage = 7.2 - 13.0
Current = maximum of 14 amps for 30 seconds
KV = 850

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by Mysterious

Hi,
I'm looking into getting a profile foamy as my 2nd plane... miniSteve suggested getting ones from rcfoam which look like good ideas... I like these 2... I'm leaning towards the yak 54

edge 540
http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?targe...ategory_id=102

yak 54
http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?targe...ategory_id=102


1) My friend suggested I think about upgrading the motor in my Funtana 300 to something more powerful to allow for better 3D aerobatics (it has an E-Flite Park 300 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 1380 kV) and then put that Park 300 on my new profile foamy. I flew the Funtana last summer a handful of times and it has some good power but admittedly I kind of expected more power/pop... I think to do something like a torque roll it'd be underpowered, or you'd have to go nearly full throttle to maintain it. I'm not to that skill level yet but I think more power would help.

I don't understand motors very well yet though. Anyone know if that'd be a good idea to put the Park 300 on the profile and then get a more powerful motor for the Funtana? If yes, what would be a suitable more powerful motor for the Funtana??



2) I need to buy another Rx for the profile foamy... I was going to get another Futaba R617FS... it weighs 0.33oz (9.32 g) ... that'd still be ok to use, right?

Hi Rob, Get yourself a Mavrick MK2 or Mavrick 40" from RC Products

http://www.rc-products.net/default.asp

they are some of the best flying planes around for a profile, or club members have them and love them, tell Rusty that Chellie sent you BTW they come pre hinged and colored trimed already for you they are a ARF foamy profile






http://vimeo.com/1682344

[CHELLIE]

Ok Rob, now we are going to have some fun build yourself a 49" wing span Foamy Katana Profile, its a Easy build, and it flies great, ask MiniSteve plans are in the thread as well as motor info, I like a 12x3.8 or a 12x5 wood prop with this plane, and this is where you are going to use That 40 AMP ESC also you can get the 9mm depron from rcfoam.com

you will need 2 sheets of 27"x39" 9mm depron, they sell in small lots, just give them a call
http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?targe...category_id=60


http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39692

Scratch Built Katana Profile 9mm Foamie

[benovisoff]

Chellie, I differ. I use these from jeff. for some strange reason they are cheaper, smaller, lighter, than a 400, even the one you showed, and they provide power of a 450! I don't get it don't ask me it just does. for $12! http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...ushless/Detail

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by benovisoff

Chellie, I differ. I use these from jeff. for some strange reason they are cheaper, smaller, lighter, than a 400, even the one you showed, and they provide power of a 450! I don't get it don't ask me it just does. for $12! http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...ushless/Detail

The 2409-12 bell motor is a nice motor BUT, they suck up a lot of electricity, AMPS, look at the data sheet, so your flight time is very low, you have to use a big lipo, or you will damage your lipo, PUFFING, those motors are fine, but just know that the are AMP HUNGRY, and you need to use a large ESC, 30 amp is best, to be on the safe side with, hope that helps, Chellie

info from heads up rc

My favorite combination with this motor is a Power Up 32 amp ESC, GWS 9050 prop, and the Power Up 11.1v 1650 20C Lipo. This combination will fly a GWS Warbird straight up with good speed!

2409-12T Specifications:
Weight = 2.3 ounces (65 grams)
Diameter = 1.2 inch (31mm)
Total Length = 2.4 inch (62mm)
Shaft Length = 0.4 inch (11mm)
Shaft Diameter = 3mm
Voltage = 7.2 to 13
KV = 1600
Current = 20 amp max.

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by benovisoff

Chellie, I differ. I use these from jeff. for some strange reason they are cheaper, smaller, lighter, than a 400, even the one you showed, and they provide power of a 450! I don't get it don't ask me it just does. for $12! http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...ushless/Detail

I get the same amount of speed from a 2408-21, and can use a lighter Lipo like a 1300mah 3 cell, i have used them both the 2409-12 and the 2408-21, I gave away 2 or 3 2409-21 motors to GreenAce, as i liked the 2408-21 motors better Take care, Chellie

[Mysterious]

holy cow, lots of great info/suggestions..... I'll give it all a read over this weekend.... thanks!

[Mysterious]

Originally Posted by CHELLIE

Hi Mysterious that motor you showed is only about 85 watts, you need MORE POWER for the funtana Ok lets Go Shopping at Heads Up Rc lets see what Jeff has, it will be a lot less money too than a E Flite motor, and its all you need for a foamie Ok Use the Park 300 brushless on the profiles with a 8X3.8 e prop and a 1300mah 3 cell lipo 20C or there abouts, and a 20+Amp ESC, since you already have the motor and it will work great for a profile, now for the funtana

funtana Motor 2830-09 dont forget to order the X motor mount from Jeff for this motor, Jeff also has different motor mounts for this motor, and get a 40 amp ESC, yes i said 40 amp it willl work great, it wont get hot on you, and you can use it on future build, like the one I am going to send you the motor when proped with the right Prop is only going to draw X amount of AMPs, so your not going to hurt the motor, esc or Lipo using a 40 amp ESC, just make sure to use the proper props with this motor, and use the info from heads up Rc web page on prop recomendations on the motor, and you will be fine.

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...lectric/Detail

1300mah 3 cell lipo

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...1300mah/Detail

or 1650 mah 3 cell lipo 20C , if you want more flight time
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...1650mah/Detail


and get the 40 amp esc, its on sale
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...-40-Amp/Detail

and use a 9x6 e prop
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...TP--9-x/Detail

or a 10x7 e prop

Chellie,
So you are suggesting to move over pretty much all the electronics off the Funtana to the profile... and then put on the electronics you suggested into the Funtana.

The Funtana's electronics are as follows... they would be ok for a 40 inch profile? Or would a slightly smaller 34-36 inch profile be better suited?

Motor Size: Park 300 1380 Kv
Prop Size: APC 8x3.8 slow flyer
Speed Control : 18 Amp Brushless Thunderbird
Battery: 3-cell 730mAh Li-Po ThunderPower

[benovisoff]

Originally Posted by CHELLIE

I get the same amount of speed from a 2408-21, and can use a lighter Lipo like a 1300mah 3 cell, i have used them both the 2409-12 and the 2408-21, I gave away 2 or 3 2409-21 motors to GreenAce, as i liked the 2408-21 motors better Take care, Chellie

Im using my 2409-12 with a heads up 1300mah 3s lipo, and a heads up 15 amp esc. with huge prop it only pulls about 14 amps. getting closer though

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by Mysterious

Chellie,
So you are suggesting to move over pretty much all the electronics off the Funtana to the profile... and then put on the electronics you suggested into the Funtana.

The Funtana's electronics are as follows... they would be ok for a 40 inch profile? Or would a slightly smaller 34-36 inch profile be better suited?

Motor Size: Park 300 1380 Kv
Prop Size: APC 8x3.8 slow flyer
Speed Control : 18 Amp Brushless Thunderbird
Battery: 3-cell 730mAh Li-Po ThunderPower

Hi Yes, move the electronics from the Funtana to the profile, that will save you some money, and it will work great, a 34 to 40 " profile will fly great with the Park 300,as they are very lite, use a larger lipo, a 1300mah to a 1650 mah 3 cell for more flight time, also on the profile, give the motor some down thrust, about 3 to 5 degrees, no right or left thrust is normally needed on a profile plane, but down thrust is very important, it helps to stabilize a flat wing by loading it, And the electronics i suggested put on the Funtana, That will give you about 160 Watts, thats up from 85 Watts, so almost twice the power Hope that helps, Chellie

a similar 2830 motor in Amps, KV & size
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...ss_Motor_800kv

[Mysterious]

thanks for the reply Chellie, I appreciate the info

[jwrussell]

Since we are already discussing Motor combinations, I have a challenge for you, Chellie. Seeing as how you like headsuprc motors and such, what would you recommend if you were trying to replicate the Flatana Brushless upgrade using headsup equipment?

The brushless upgrade info can be found on Tower's site among others...sorry, too new to post a link.

How close could you get?

Oh, and with any luck we can stay away from the whole "Great Planes Good/Bad" discussion.

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by jwrussell

Since we are already discussing Motor combinations, I have a challenge for you, Chellie. Seeing as how you like headsuprc motors and such, what would you recommend if you were trying to replicate the Flatana Brushless upgrade using headsup equipment?

The brushless upgrade info can be found on Tower's site among others...sorry, too new to post a link.

How close could you get?

Oh, and with any luck we can stay away from the whole "Great Planes Good/Bad" discussion.

Hi jwrussell and Welcome to Wattflyers I would use the 2410-09 brushless motor, that will allow you to use a large prop, and keep the amp draw down,
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...lectric/Detail

with a 32 amp esc, the larger ESC is ok to use on this motor, as long as you use the proper prop and not exceed the motors amp draw, and this ESC can be used with a lot of other motors, and it wont get hot, because its just crusing with a lite load, and it will last you a long time, if you dont want to go that big of a ESC, a 20 amp will be fine too.


http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...UP--32A/Detail


a 1000mah or 1300mah 3 cell lipo will work great, use the 1300mah for longer flight times

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...1000mah/Detail












Propeller Data for 3 cell Lipo batteries:
GWS props fit the 3mm shaft on this motor perfectly - no adapter needed. APC and Master Airscrew props require a prop adapter or prop saver for 3mm shafts.
The GWS DD1280 prop produces about 25 ounces of thrust at 12.5 amps with a pitch speed of 38 mph. Avoid constant wide open throttle.
The APC 12x3.8SF prop produces about 25 ounces of thrust at 12.5 amps with a pitch speed of 18 mph. Avoid constant wide open throttle.
The APC 11x3.8SF prop produces about 24 ounces of thrust at 10.5 amps with a pitch speed of 21 mph.
The APC 11x4.7SF prop produces about 24 ounces of thrust at 11.5 amps with a pitch speed of 25 mph.
The GWS EP1147 prop produces about 24 ounces of thrust at 11amps with a pitch speed of 25 mph. Excellent slow fly prop for this motor, and no prop adapter required.
The APC 11x5.5E prop produces about 23 ounces of thrust at 10.5 amps with a pitch speed of 32 mph.
The APC 11x7E prop produces about 22 ounces of thrust at 11.5 amps with a pitch speed of 41 mph.
The GWS EP1170 prop produces about 24 ounces of thrust at 10 amps with a pitch speed of 39 mph. Excellent prop for sport/aerobatic planes.
The APC 11x8E prop produces about 22 ounces of thrust at 12.5 amps with a pitch speed of 42 mph. Avoid constant wide open throttle.
The APC 10x3.8SF prop produces about 22 ounces of thrust at 10 amps with a pitch speed of 23 mph.
The APC 10x4.7SF prop produces about 22 ounces of thrust at 10 amps with a pitch speed of 28 mph.
The GWS EP1047 prop produces about 22 ounces of thrust at 9.5 amps with a pitch speed of 28 mph.
The APC 10x5E prop produces about 21 ounces of thrust at 8.5 amps with a pitch speed of 32 mph.
TheGWS EP1060 prop produces about 20 ounces of thrust at 8.5 amps with a pitch speed of 37 mph.
The APC 10x7SF prop produces about 21 ounces of thrust at 12 amps with a pitch speed of 35 mph.
The APC 10x7E prop produces about 20 ounces of thrust at 10 amps with a pitch speed of 41 mph.
The Master Airscrew 10x7 3-blade prop produces about 22 ounces of thrust at 10.5 amps with a pitch speed of 37 mph. Great for scale looks and good speed.
TheGWS EP1080 prop produces about 20 ounces of thrust at 11.5 amps with a pitch speed of 40 mph.
The GWS HD1080 prop produces about 17 ounces of thrust at 10.5 amps with a pitch speed of 41 mph.
TheMaster Airscrew 9x7 3-bladeprop produces about 18 ounces of thrust at 9 amps with a pitch speed of 41 mph.
Propeller Data for 2 cell Lipo batteries (7.4 volt):
The APC 12x3.8SF prop produces about 15 ounces of thrust at 7 amps with a pitch speed of 14 mph.
The GWS EP1260 prop produces about 17 ounces of thrust at 8 amps with a pitch speed of 21 mph.
The GWS EP1147 prop produces about 14 ounces of thrust at 6.5 amps with a pitch speed of 18 mph.
The GWS EP1180 prop produces about 15 ounces of thrust at 8 amps with a pitch speed of 27 mph.
The above data is a result of my own testing using fully charged Lipo batteries.

2410-09Y Specifications:
Weight = 2.0 ounces (57 grams)
Diameter = 1.2 inch (31mm)
Total Length = 2.4 inch (62mm)
Shaft Length = 1.1 inch (28mm)
Shaft Diameter = 3mm (GWS Props fit nicely)
Voltage = 7.2 to 12.6
KV = 1000
Current = 12 amp max.

[jwrussell]

Thanks so much for the help and the welcome! So let me ask you this. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this. In looking at the different options, I would have thought that the 2826-14 would have been the closest approximation of the rimfire GPMG4500 based on size and weight. Obviously it is a higher KV rating, but with my limited knowledge...and uh, being a guy, I would figure that's just better! Also, considering that the Rimfire only weighs 1.48 oz, it seems that the .3 oz you save with the 2826-14 over the 2410-09 would be important.

Thanks again.

[CHELLIE]

Originally Posted by jwrussell

Thanks so much for the help and the welcome! So let me ask you this. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this. In looking at the different options, I would have thought that the 2826-14 would have been the closest approximation of the rimfire GPMG4500 based on size and weight. Obviously it is a higher KV rating, but with my limited knowledge...and uh, being a guy, I would figure that's just better! Also, considering that the Rimfire only weighs 1.48 oz, it seems that the .3 oz you save with the 2826-14 over the 2410-09 would be important.

Thanks again.

Hi jwrussell it took me a while to get it in my head to at first Basicly, the lower the KV, the bigger prop it will spin, low KV = more torque, less amp draw, high kv = more speed, but with a smaller prop, high kv motors draw more power, so with a big prop on a high kv motor, it will draw lots and lots of amps, get hot and burn up thats how i learned about high and low kv motors Hope that helps, Chellie

[benovisoff]

I like running like a 4X7.5 prop on my 3600 kv inrunner, yet I run 12X8 props on my 480. hmm... I need a 13X10 on my 480 my 12X6 is already pushing its max amp load, a 13X10 will definitely fry it. I pull about 33 amps on a 2200kv six series, just imagine my 4700kv inrunner from hobby king! ZOOM!

[jwrussell]

OK, that helps, thanks!