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Old 12-22-2011, 02:10 PM   #1
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Default Dull finish for Ultracote

So I normally build from short kits or kits but this time I was so impressed with the E-Flite P-51B that I went with an ARF. Now I feel like I need to go to a twelve step group (hello my name is Dave and I bought an ARF) ...just kidding. I have always wanted a 50-60" Mustang that is not so "sport scale" (translation: UGLY) and electric but I could never find a nice kit. Most are converted nitro and too heavy. I also like the "B" model instead of the "D" which everyone seems to do.

It is a really well done model and I have to say it is cool that they include detailed weathering instructions for the finish. However, here is my question:

If I spray Testors dullcote on it will it adhere and will I be able to apply heat to the covering later to fix wrinkles?

The instructions call for a coating of dullcote followed by weathering with pastels and more dullcote. I have done this type of finish before on scale plastic models and it works great and is very realistic but this model is balsa sheeted and Ultracote and Monokote films always bubble and pull away over time and need maintenance with a heat gun or iron.Also, I would like to add even more detail and here is my second question:

What is the best media/technique for drawing panel lines over a dark color like olive drab?

I was thinking of a fine tip "Sharpie" but I have never done the panel line thing before.

Thanks,

Dave
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:07 AM   #2
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Hi Dave

I have been experimenting because I have the exact same questions. I made two frames and covered them with Ultracote. I drew some panel lines on them with a Sharpie then sprayed one with Testors Dullcote and the other with Krylon Clear Satin. Unfortunately both coatings made the Sharpie lines blur slightly. The Dullcote was worse than the Krylon but that may have been because it was a little heavier coat. The good news is that I was able to shrink them with an iron afterwards. I'm thinking of trying some other things for the panel lines such as pastels or a grease pencil.

Terry
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:20 AM   #3
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Terry,

Thanks for answering.

I am doing my panel lines after the dullcote but I am wondering if I can leave them without a clear coat.

I sprayed the dullcote over my Mustang's OD green over gray Ultracote and it did a perfectly beautiful job of dulling the film. It really looks wonderful. I used pastel chalk to weather it by scraping it into dust and dry brushing the streaks and stains on. Then I did a light coat of dullcote over the weathering. I am really pleased with the results. All the smoke stains from the exhaust and machine guns and all the grease streaks came out very realistic. I weathered the plane to look well used.

I will post some pictures.

I am still a little intimidated by all the panel lines that are on the P-51B but I think I will go for it.

Thanks again, it is good to hear I will still be able to touch up the film with the iron.

Dave
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:36 AM   #4
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Here are some pics:









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Old 12-24-2011, 07:35 PM   #5
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Terry,

I did some experimenting and found just an ordinary soft pencil will lay in some pretty nice panel lines on the dullcote surface. I cut up a bunch of poster board into convenient sizes and I just lay then along the pencil line and then airbrush the poster board just away from the edge (on the board not the plane) and I get a very subtle shadow from the over-spray that gives the panel line a 3D look. Seems to work but will take a lot of time.

Dave
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Old 12-25-2011, 03:44 AM   #6
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The Mustang looks excellent.
You've probably already figured this out from experimenting, but I've found the dullcote to adhere better to covering than other paints. I started using it ages ago, when I realized that the flat coverings are terrible to work with. For whatever reason/s, they do not shrink as well as the gloss coverings.
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:50 AM   #7
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Bill,

I have not tried the flat films but thanks for the warning. I have been using Doculam almost exclusively and painting but I always had paint adhesion issues. I am still experimenting, my latest attempts with Doculam is using flexible acrylic paint designed for use on clothing.

This P-51B is actually an ARF (not at all almost ready to fly though) from E-Flite but I posted this question here because it is a finishing question that relates to kit or scratch building. I am impressed with E-Flites ARF's though and this kit is gorgeous. It looked pretty bad with the glossy Ultracote but my hat is off to E-Flite because they actually included in their build instructions the procedure for using the dullcote and using the chalk pastels for weathering.

My main concern on finishing this one was touching up the Ultracote once the finish was on and how to add panel lines.

Dave
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:09 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by payne9999 View Post
Bill,

I have not tried the flat films but thanks for the warning. I have been using Doculam almost exclusively and painting but I always had paint adhesion issues. I am still experimenting, my latest attempts with Doculam is using flexible acrylic paint designed for use on clothing.

This P-51B is actually an ARF (not at all almost ready to fly though) from E-Flite but I posted this question here because it is a finishing question that relates to kit or scratch building. I am impressed with E-Flites ARF's though and this kit is gorgeous. It looked pretty bad with the glossy Ultracote but my hat is off to E-Flite because they actually included in their build instructions the procedure for using the dullcote and using the chalk pastels for weathering.

My main concern on finishing this one was touching up the Ultracote once the finish was on and how to add panel lines.

Dave
They do look terrible with the gloss finish. I guess it's a good thing though, as it gives you the opportunity to distance yourself from owning an ARF.
Originally Posted by payne9999 View Post
Now I feel like I need to go to a twelve step group (hello my name is Dave and I bought an ARF)
At the field, I think most people won't even recognize your plane as an ARF anymore. The weathering looks excellent.
I felt like that when I bought my last ARF also, the Eflite Sea Fury. I thought about selling it, but it's such a good plane that I'll keep it. It's even more desirable since they re-released it. They're made from Z-soccerball texture foam, and weigh 5 tons.
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:31 PM   #9
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Bill,

I don't worry about the ARF thing as much although given that the choices are there, I would choose to build. In this case I couldn't find a scratch or kit option that would yield a plane I wanted. I looked at House of Balsa and their P-51 looks bad to me. This one looks very realistic and although I wish it were lighter, I think the reviews indicate it is a good flyer.

I am definitely "Old School" in that for most of my flying time (30 plus years) the only way to fly something or fix something was to build it.

I may take the lines off this one a develop plans for a 50-55" mustang that is built lighter with much lighter wing loading. I have the CAD tools at my disposal but I have done some airplane design in the past and it is a lot of work. That's why I look at people like Pat Tritle (Pats Custom Models) and I often wonder how many hours he spends on the computer.

Dave
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:47 PM   #10
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http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...my+planes+deux

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Old 12-26-2011, 12:47 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by payne9999 View Post
Bill,

I don't worry about the ARF thing as much although given that the choices are there, I would choose to build. In this case I couldn't find a scratch or kit option that would yield a plane I wanted. I looked at House of Balsa and their P-51 looks bad to me. This one looks very realistic and although I wish it were lighter, I think the reviews indicate it is a good flyer.

I am definitely "Old School" in that for most of my flying time (30 plus years) the only way to fly something or fix something was to build it.

I may take the lines off this one a develop plans for a 50-55" mustang that is built lighter with much lighter wing loading. I have the CAD tools at my disposal but I have done some airplane design in the past and it is a lot of work. That's why I look at people like Pat Tritle (Pats Custom Models) and I often wonder how many hours he spends on the computer.

Dave
Building a lighter one from your own design would be a good idea. They have to make these practical for production, so they can't realistically build them as light as possible. Things like 1/32" sheeting could give you a much lighter one, if you built it yourself.. I agree that there aren't many good looking B or C kits out there, in this size. The HOB kits never really did it for me either, as there would be so much work in modifying the shape for scale, that you may as well just start from a 3-view.

I built one of the miles off scale HOB P51's when I first got into building. Given my scale considerations now, I'll have to build another someday. I still have it, but it's not even a P51, as far as I'm concerned.


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Old 12-26-2011, 06:36 PM   #12
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Thanks,

These are interesting threads. I have often wanted to buy a foam plane and glass it to make it stronger and to be able to add a realistic finish.

The information in these threads is great.

Dave
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:36 PM   #13
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The man is a master. Check his more recent works. It's amazing what he can do. His techniques for finishing planes is a thing of art. It's on par with what small plastic scale guys do, but on a much larger model.

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Old 12-27-2011, 01:42 AM   #14
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Nearing completion. I am really happy with the dullcote. It seems to have good adhesion and as such should protect all the artwork. It took a lot of hours to assemble and detail but I think it was very worthwhile.

I initially used an airbrush and blue tape to highlight the panel lines but later found that using blue tape and dry brushing some dark brown, green and black along the tape edge worked just as well. So, those folks out there that don't have a compressor and airbrush, this whole finishing process could be done with spray cans of Dullcote, blue tape, brushes, pastel chalks, and a ruler (about $30 total materials cost!). I just scrape the chalk into dust (with an X-acto knife) into a little container (all three colors together) and then use a broad brush that has been cut short to pick up the chalk and rub it into the edge of the tape line. Then I use my finger to blend the line. If you get and area that sucks, you can remove it with Windex, let it dry and retry. It is pretty mistake proof. I used a 1/48th plastic model kit to really see the panel lines and other details.....











Waiting for a motor and speed control to come.

Dave
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:59 AM   #15
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Nice!

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