Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Beginners
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Beginners New to e-power flying? Get the low down in here from experienced e-power RC pilots!

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-24-2012, 03:53 AM   #1
DannyShadow
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Wood vs carbon fiber propellers?

I've read online that wood props are stronger than plastic. However, from what I understand, carbon fiber is very strong as well.

So I wanted to know what's the pros and cons of each material?
DannyShadow is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 04:13 AM   #2
Larry3215
Look out for that tree!!!
 
Larry3215's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gig Harbor, Wa USA
Posts: 6,816
View Larry3215's Gallery63
Thanked 692 Times in 671 Posts
Club: Kitsap ARCS & E-FLAPS
Awards Showcase

90 Minute Thermal Duration  60 Minute Thermal Duration  30 Minute Thermal Duration  4kW 
iTrader: (6)
Friends: (21)
Default

Wood props are generally less $$ than carbon props. The fact that they are not as strong can save your motor shaft in the case of a prop strike. They generally require user balancing and can be subject to moisture/humidity issues and aging issues.

Carbon props - if made by a reputable mfg - are quieter, lighter weight, stiffer and can have a more accurate airfoil. All of that adds up to more efficient transfer of power to the air, which is where you want it to go. The better ones are factory balanced.

They are also more consistent from one prop to the next - there are fewer mfg issues to cause variance that you can see in wood props just from the quality of the wood alone.

I think I need a signature.
Larry
Larry3215 is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 06:10 AM   #3
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 6,133
View solentlife's Gallery47
Thanked 262 Times in 259 Posts
Club: Founder Member Ventspils RC Club. Ex Waltham Chase and Meon Valley Soaring.
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award  125mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (15)
Default

As an old scale hand ... used wood props where scale dictated ...

as an old pylon hand ... used CF / GFN where speed was needed.

They each have their pros and cons.

One area that I will touch on ... if you damage a wood prop it is usually quite evident ... but you can damage a CF prop and not know. I agree that generally you will see damage, but I know of many cases of damaged CF props and they looked fine - till put under load and then shredded. One guy I know ended up in hospital with shards of CF in his hands .. very difficult situation for hospital ..

Which is best ? neither as each is intended for diffferent purpose. Which is best for general use ? I would say the CF ... but I would usually go for a lesser format prop ... the Glass Filled Nylon ( GFN ) prop ... stiff, usually reasonably balanced and cheaper to buy than a true CF prop.

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
- Subscribe my Youtube: "solentlifeuk"
solentlife is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 06:14 AM   #4
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,123
Thanked 699 Times in 681 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by DannyShadow View Post
I've read online that wood props are stronger than plastic. However, from what I understand, carbon fiber is very strong as well.

So I wanted to know what's the pros and cons of each material?
I've been using those APC-E electric props in all of my electric models now for many years. They do outperform the same sized prop designed for the glow engines. Because these APC-E props are not as massive as the glow version, they are more likely to shatter on a severe prop strike. Those props are quite strong for electric use. Their instructions indicate they are NOT to be used on a glow/gas engine. If you follow APC's RPM published RPM restrictions on their electric props, you will be OK. (Note these are the APC-E props, not the APC slow flyer props.)

That said, a straight in crash will still bend the shaft of a big motor. I've done it on a Hacker A40-10L motor when the aileron came completely off on an ARF model that used foam inside the wings.

Also have a Hacker A60-16M motor that pulls 2950 watts on a 19X12 APC-E prop. That same motor drops down to 2300 Watts on a 20X10 wood prop. That wood prop has significantly less thrust. That same 19X12 prop has been on my model for two years now with over 200 flights on it.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 06:25 AM   #5
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

My thoughts...
Personally, for my applications, I like wood. For these reasons:
  • Much lighter than any other types
  • Much cheaper than carbon
  • Stiffer than most nylon/plastics
  • Motor shaft protected in event of prop strike/crash
  • Wood looks nice

I think though to a great extent it depends on your application. I'm flying mainly 3D aerobatic models these days and with their big diameter props and light overall weight then the weight saving of wood is a big selling point. Wood not only saves a few grams but gives the motor better throttle response.

For high very RPM props on speed models then carbon is probably the ultimate material followed by glass reinforced nylon. For general fun/sports models nylon props may win out purely on cost and durability.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 07:08 AM   #6
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 18,636
View CHELLIE's Gallery13
Thanked 2,173 Times in 2,081 Posts
Club: Chino Renegades RC Flying Club
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Ambassador Award  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (313)
Default

IMHO, I dont care what the prop is made from, as long as it works good and is safe and does not cost a lot Because I am Cheap, Thats good enough for me LOL

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
CHELLIE is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 04:29 PM   #7
Glacier Girl
Kamikaze Ace
 
Glacier Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 1,940
Thanked 149 Times in 139 Posts
Club: Badius Boys Flying Club Inc. Outlaw Flyers World Wide
Awards Showcase

1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (6)
Default

Least in my experience, with wood props, you need to check them often for tightness of the prop nut. Especially on a new one.
Wood compresses, what was tight yesterday is often loose today.

When I die, I want to go like my Grandfather did, in his sleep...... Not screaming like the passengers in his plane.
Glacier Girl is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 04:42 AM   #8
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 6,133
View solentlife's Gallery47
Thanked 262 Times in 259 Posts
Club: Founder Member Ventspils RC Club. Ex Waltham Chase and Meon Valley Soaring.
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award  125mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (15)
Default

Originally Posted by Glacier Girl View Post
Least in my experience, with wood props, you need to check them often for tightness of the prop nut. Especially on a new one.
Wood compresses, what was tight yesterday is often loose today.
That is why it's advisable to use a knurled backplate for wood prop to sit against. Using plain smooth is not a good idea with wood. If a backplate is smooth as some are - then a knurled thrust washer with the nut instead of the usual plain washer is advised.
Also repeated tightening up of a wood prop can lead to weakening of the prop centre.

Me ? Wood props are too expensive for me now ! I used to use them on my IC powered stuff years ago ... I prefer GFN now (Glass Filled Nylon) .... very nearly as stiff as CF, cheaper, usually well balanced as they come from a standard mould, easily modified ... available LHS, Ebay, HK ... everywhere. (To the uninitiated ... Master Airscrew and other usual stiff black props are GFN ....).

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
- Subscribe my Youtube: "solentlifeuk"
solentlife is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 02:46 PM   #9
FlyWheel
Ochroma Lagopus Tekton
 
FlyWheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blackstock, South Carolina
Posts: 2,537
View FlyWheel's Gallery5
Thanked 70 Times in 68 Posts
Club: Lancaster County Fliers
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (3)
Default

I hope y'all don't mind if I piggyback on this thread (it's not really a hijack because it's the same subject ) I have an AeroCraft 1911 Eastborne kit that is next in line for the build table, and since it is a scale aircraft I was thinking maybe a wood prop would look really nice on it. RPM is no big deal as this is going to be a slow flier simply by design; the undercambered main wing pretty much assures that.

I will be going brushless, probably an inrunner with a gearox. Noisy, I know, but another builder of this bird mentioned the right one can actually give it a reasonably good "scale" sound.

Given the parameters mentioned above, what would be the best wood prop for this bird?

Posted via Mobile Device
FlyWheel is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 07:01 PM   #10
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Best for a pre WWI vintage model that I can think of would be the Xoar PJWWI Scimitar: http://www.xoarintl.com/props/model-...tar-light.html
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 11:59 PM   #11
CNY_Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Cortland NY
Posts: 774
Thanked 36 Times in 35 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

I think the APC-E props are an excellent value and since they are thin and light waste little energy in spinning up, and slice through the air very nicely.

They seem to break just easily enough to save motor shafts while being able to take a pretty good punch.

I shorten them just a little when I rash the tips (not common on my taildragger, but on my trike gear plane while learing how to land well I rashed a number of 'em).

Ask me why your DX5e is doomed... and how to fix it.
CNY_Dave is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:21 AM   #12
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,123
Thanked 699 Times in 681 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
I think the APC-E props are an excellent value and since they are thin and light waste little energy in spinning up, and slice through the air very nicely.

They seem to break just easily enough to save motor shafts while being able to take a pretty good punch.

I shorten them just a little when I rash the tips (not common on my taildragger, but on my trike gear plane while learing how to land well I rashed a number of 'em).
Agree on those APC-E props. The few glow engine type wood props I've tried in comparison to the APC-E props, IMHO, they are noteably better for electric power than those wood props on the same motor.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:43 AM   #13
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 6,133
View solentlife's Gallery47
Thanked 262 Times in 259 Posts
Club: Founder Member Ventspils RC Club. Ex Waltham Chase and Meon Valley Soaring.
Awards Showcase

Scratchbuilders Award  Scratchbuilders Award  Outstanding Contributor Award  125mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (15)
Default

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Agree on those APC-E props. The few wood props I've tried in comparison to the APC-E props, IMHO, they are noteably better for electric power than those wood props on the same motor.
i would hazard a guess the need for stable wood such as Beech or Elm makes the wood prop an unlikely best for E power ... with synthetic / composite materials - the likelihood is better ...

For Glow power ... a good wood prop is a different beast all together ..

Nigel

222kph PKJ,EDF Concorde, Mini4,Mig3,T45,PKJ twin,ME109,Edge540,Cessna182,Skymaster Biplane,F15,F16,Badius,Ultimate,SE5,Qbee10,450 Heli,V911,J3 Cub Founder 9x forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flysky_RC_radio/
- Subscribe my Youtube: "solentlifeuk"
solentlife is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:58 AM   #14
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,123
Thanked 699 Times in 681 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
i would hazard a guess the need for stable wood such as Beech or Elm makes the wood prop an unlikely best for E power ... with synthetic / composite materials - the likelihood is better ...

For Glow power ... a good wood prop is a different beast all together ..

Nigel

For the newbies, don't ever put one of those APC-E props on a glow engine!!!! Those electric props have a warning about using them on a glow engine for a reason.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 02:08 PM   #15
rcers
Community Moderator
 
rcers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Trophy Club TX
Posts: 6,211
View rcers's Gallery57
Thanked 502 Times in 492 Posts
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (9)
Default

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Agree on those APC-E props. The few wood props I've tried in comparison to the APC-E props, IMHO, they are noteably better for electric power than those wood props on the same motor.
+2 - I too agree.

I always find it interesting that many don't do testing with propellers. On one stubborn model - I actually found my best prop after trying almost a full dozen in flight. In this case it was an APC sport prop that was the ticket.

I have found MAS absolutely stink - they take more amps and give less in flight performance.

I also found a gem of a prop that many should consider for lower power models those are the GWS "HD" series propellers. I don't use them over 250-275 watts but they are magic. They draw less amps than many comparable propellers yet give more thrust and in-flight performance.

Some of them draw almost 30% less power and give MORE performance - that is amazing. On my Alfa models using the APC-SF type 8x6 will draw almost 30% more juice and give less speed than the 8x6 GWS HD. And to boot they are also very light weight like the SF series when, on those small planes I don't want to use APC-E type (too bulky on the small models with tiny spinners).

I especially like the 8x6, 9x5, 9x7.5 and 10x8. Many are also finding the small ones 3", 4" and 5" WELL outperform the stuff used on UM stuff from Horizon - I too agree.

So finding a cheap prop (they are a buck!) from GWS in the HD line for my small stuff is awesome.

My advice - do some real inflight testing on props - you might be surprised!

Mike
rcers is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 02:39 PM   #16
CNY_Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: near Cortland NY
Posts: 774
Thanked 36 Times in 35 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (1)
Default

Finding the best prop is like adjusting the fuel mixture on a carb- how do you know it's optimal?

Only after you've tried everything else and made it worse!

Ask me why your DX5e is doomed... and how to fix it.
CNY_Dave is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 04:41 PM   #17
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,123
Thanked 699 Times in 681 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by rcers View Post
+2 - I too agree.

I always find it interesting that many don't do testing with propellers. On one stubborn model - I actually found my best prop after trying almost a full dozen in flight. In this case it was an APC sport prop that was the ticket.

I have found MAS absolutely stink - they take more amps and give less in flight performance.

I also found a gem of a prop that many should consider for lower power models those are the GWS "HD" series propellers. I don't use them over 250-275 watts but they are magic. They draw less amps than many comparable propellers yet give more thrust and in-flight performance.

Some of them draw almost 30% less power and give MORE performance - that is amazing. On my Alfa models using the APC-SF type 8x6 will draw almost 30% more juice and give less speed than the 8x6 GWS HD. And to boot they are also very light weight like the SF series when, on those small planes I don't want to use APC-E type (too bulky on the small models with tiny spinners).

I especially like the 8x6, 9x5, 9x7.5 and 10x8. Many are also finding the small ones 3", 4" and 5" WELL outperform the stuff used on UM stuff from Horizon - I too agree.

So finding a cheap prop (they are a buck!) from GWS in the HD line for my small stuff is awesome.

My advice - do some real inflight testing on props - you might be surprised!

Mike
Agreed.
Those computer programs such as www.motocalc.com work very well, but you still need to tweak your model with a few different props in the general size recommended by motocalc to satisfy your needs.

Methinks that even with the same exact model and same exact power system, different modelers would be happiest with different props.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 08:01 PM   #18
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 4,436
Thanked 490 Times in 456 Posts
Awards Showcase

5kW  Outstanding Contributor Award  1kW 
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (8)
Default

Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Agree on those APC-E props. The few wood props I've tried in comparison to the APC-E props, IMHO, they are noteably better for electric power than those wood props on the same motor.
What props were 'those' wood props? Wood props just like nylon ones come in many brands and types. Just like nylon, some types are good and some not so good, but you cant tar them all with the same brush just based on the material they are made from.

I've had great results from Xoar PJN electric props. Comparisons depend on the size you compare but for the size ranges I've used (12-15") the Xoar props in comparison with APCe pull about 5-10% more amps but make correspondingly higher thrust, so overall efficiency is about the same. APC score on durability but Xoar scores on light weight. What works best depends on what you are looking for but for me the light weight and the better throttle response it brings often wins out.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 09:04 PM   #19
rcers
Community Moderator
 
rcers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Trophy Club TX
Posts: 6,211
View rcers's Gallery57
Thanked 502 Times in 492 Posts
Awards Showcase

WAA-08 Pilot 
iTrader: (4)
Friends: (9)
Default

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I've had great results from Xoar PJN electric props. Comparisons depend on the size you compare but for the size ranges I've used (12-15") the Xoar props in comparison with APCe pull about 5-10% more amps but make correspondingly higher thrust, so overall efficiency is about the same.
+1 - LOVE the Xoar propellers for the larger stuff.

And the Hobby King knock off (light electric wood) is pretty good too if you go that route.

Mike
rcers is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 12:39 AM   #20
kyleservicetech
Dennis V
 
kyleservicetech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,123
Thanked 699 Times in 681 Posts
Club: www.racinercclub.com (I'm the newsletter editor)
Awards Showcase

Outstanding Contributor Award  3kW  2kW  100mph Speed Demon 
iTrader: (1)
Friends: (20)
Default

Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
What props were 'those' wood props? Wood props just like nylon ones come in many brands and types. Just like nylon, some types are good and some not so good, but you cant tar them all with the same brush just based on the material they are made from.

I've had great results from Xoar PJN electric props. Comparisons depend on the size you compare but for the size ranges I've used (12-15") the Xoar props in comparison with APCe pull about 5-10% more amps but make correspondingly higher thrust, so overall efficiency is about the same. APC score on durability but Xoar scores on light weight. What works best depends on what you are looking for but for me the light weight and the better throttle response it brings often wins out.
They were generic wood props designed for glow engines. This posting was changed to reflect that fact.

DennyV
Retired and the days are just too short, busier than ever!
kyleservicetech is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Beginners

Tags
carbon fiber , material , prop , propeller , wood

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale New Dynam E-Razor 450 Carbon Fiber RTF MWShelton Helicopters- Electric For Sale & WTB 6 11-19-2012 05:12 AM
Cool carbon fiber stuff earthsciteach Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 0 06-13-2011 03:35 AM
How do you work carbon fiber? DanWard Beginners 3 06-01-2011 03:44 AM
Will this CARBON FIBER UM fly? S.R.G. Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 47 02-26-2011 04:34 PM
Ideas for a Carbon Fiber Wing Spar, Please? Saddlebum Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft 9 01-30-2011 04:40 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:12 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.28178 seconds with 59 queries